[knorl05]

blah blah blah..

[i_am_jan]

Happy Birthday, Fiddler, hope you found a way to enjoy your evening : )~

knorl05: Some of the things you've said are helping me to get a clearer picture of my ex (the alcoholic). Your personality and his sound very similar. He is in a band. I guess I never *really* realized he really had issues...he seemed to be a person who had it all together and then some, great career, great musician, great personality, funny ~ the main thing is he was a very comical person (*always* making people laugh, in any conversation with him, anytime of the day, cranking out jokes and laughter)...lots of people including myself would love to *be* him ... so maybe that's why I never felt he had serious issues even though I know his childhood was rough? Anyway, from the way he presented on the outside, he never seemed to be hurting in any way. But he does, like you, feel he functions better/feels better with alcohol in his system.

But I have a question for you...something you said about feeling more 'normal' when you are drinking...as I told you, he is a 'functioning' alcoholic. He calls me when he's drinking/drunk. The things he says ~ I can't tell whether they're how he really feels, or if they're feelings he thinks because he's drunk. Could you shed some light at all? I mean, you proclaim to be a 'functioning' user, so~when you are on the phone with the intimate people in your life, and you're drunk~are the things you say how you truly feel? Or are they confused with alcohol?

I realize that's a subjective sort of question but if you have any answers at all, it would really help clear up some of my confusion in dealing with him. One of the things that's been hardest is that the only time he would discuss our relationship is when he's drunk. It's just that I'm not sure which him is him anymore ~ the sober one, the drunk one, some combination of each?

[ananke]

Aw damn, fiddler, that sucks. Happy birthday though!

[kiss_the_fiddler]

Grrr. . . Here's an example of how alcohol is affecting my marriage. Today is my birthday. My sweetie is at her mom's drinking because she has to drink on Thursdays or the world might end. For fuck's sake, it's one day a year. Gees. . . She invited me to go over to her mom's too, knowing that I don't enjoy being at her mom's, especially when she's drinking. So, happy birthday to me, now go get drunk. Yup, I'm mad. Grrr. . .

fiddler

[knorl05]

i_am_jan: self medication perhaps.
the reason i like SOS support groups, although i havent participated, is that it offers people who do not believe in religion, an intelligent (and i feel enduring) alternative to aa.

[i_am_jan]

i've determined i think i was meant to survive on alcohol. when i'm drunk is the only time my brain feels normal. not that i necessarily strive for normalcy, or that i think my thoughts are normal when i'm drunk.. as it is that i feel more comfortable with whole self (neurosis and issues included) when my brain is under the influence.

That is interesting to me. My ex was a (functioning) alcoholic and I never quite understood why he liked it so much, why he had to drink. I wonder if it had something to do with that though.

[knorl05]

there's also this support group: http://www.secularsobriety.org/ and http://www.sossobriety.org/

it's called SOS.. standing for secular organizations for sobriety. here's part of their org statement.. "We respect diversity, welcome healthy skepticism, and encourage rational thinking as well as the expression of feelings."

anyway. i've determined i think i was meant to survive on alcohol. when i'm drunk is the only time my brain feels normal. not that i necessarily strive for normalcy, or that i think my thoughts are normal when i'm drunk.. as it is that i feel more comfortable with whole self (neurosis and issues included) when my brain is under the influence. BUT i realize i have to look to the bigger picture, look to my daily goals, look to what i really want, and determine if alcohol can be included in that equation. you know, it's as though you have to weigh out your priorities. this is going to sound so ridiculous, but i'd just like to be rich so that i could be free to live however i wanted. wait- that is like the american dream or something huh..

[i_am_jan]

datagirl: You don't need to drink to be happy. There is joy which comes naturally in life when you get sober. I understand how hard it must be since you are in a band, but you do not need to drink to play your instrument and do a show, even though it might seem that way.

Maybe you could think about giving AA more of a chance - like commit to it 100% - and then if it doesn't work out, try Plan B. I say this because it is a proven effective program that has worked for tons of people - all kinds of different people - for many years - and until you begin working the 12-step program, you can't really feel it working.

I have a friend who had an alcohol and cocaine problem. He hit bottom. He said he HATED the thought of going to AA because he felt he had NOTHING in common with the people there (he was younger, like you, and was a lawyer). Eventually he HAD to go...and he said, once he started getting to know the people there, he found out he had TONS in common with them. That whole behavioral drinking issue starts from the same place ~ the same patterns ~ in everybody, no matter your age, class/race, etc. My friend got sober through AA.

[ananke]

Maybe AA isn't the place for you? Do you have friends that can help? I've learnt to control my drinking (mostly) without never drinking. If you want to email me, we can talk if you'd like.

[datagirl]

Thanks I_am_jan,

I was driving to work today (now very sober and recovered) and was wondering how I'm going to simply not drink anymore.
AA is an option but as I said,I've tried that.I didn't commit to it because I would usually attend straight after a bender.Sort of like damage control.So when I'd half way thought I'd redeemed myself I'd stop going. I began to hate it actually because all we talked about was NOT DRINKING!!! I know,I know......that's the point ect ect.
I remember one time driving home after a meeting and just crying because I couldn't imagine my life without alcohol and crying also becuase I was just so
stuck in this thought,paralysed.I love alcohol but it's going to kill me.I'm so stuck.If only they had an AA for younger people. Anyone got any ideas?? I'm in Sydney,Australia.

[i_am_jan]

datagirl: It's a huge step you've taken ... and a positive turn in your life ... for you to have admitted that you have a drinking problem. Remember that a journey of 1,000 miles begins with one little step and you have taken that step. Now it seems you need to figure out what direction to go in to get where you want to end up. ((((hugs))))

[datagirl]

I can't believe I found this thread. I'm just getting over a hang over as we speak.I've been a binge drinker for over 10 years and will be turning 30 in a few weeks.
My last binge took place in a recording studio and a couple of pubs.I went out a 2pm and got home at 3am.I drink sometimes to the point of blacking out.
I've lost my licence dui in the past.I am living on borrowed time.Last weekend I drove my car and was so drunk that I had to close one of my eyes to focus.
I've tried AA,alcohol councelling ect ect.I'm a musician so I'm within that whole drinking culture.My father had a problem with alcohol and I do too unfortunately.
I'm very scared.I'm living on borrowed time.

[i_am_jan]

(((((hugs to everyone here)))))

kiss_the_fiddler:

I am sorry to hear about your wife's alcohol dependency. Alcohol ruined my marriage. We were perfectly happy until his drinking got out of control to the point where ~ he became another person. Not the person I married. That person was gone. And he still is the alcoholic to this day. Just wanted to say I hope you can get through without giving up your marriage. I know it's difficult. The problem for us is that he refused to talk about or deal with it in any way. I really hope you can get her talking and accepting she has a problem. My ex is an alcoholic still to this day and I fear for his life...no way can a person live like this for long...also he smokes cigarettes like crazy (the whole alcohol/nicotine reciprocation effect). It sickens me. And I'm always afraid of receiving a phone call, you know? So I know what you mean...alcohol scares the hell out of me too, worse than any other addiction I think. I'm glad you've found a place where you can lay out your feelings. I just said a little 'prayer' for you.

[kiss_the_fiddler]

ananke,
glad you feel like you can share here. i don't drink because it's a trick for me. i know myself well enough to know that i'm an addict. i can become addicted to almost anything, it seems, alcohol, drugs, cutting, eating or not eating. so i'm careful. and i've had to learn ways to deal with situations and feelings (life). it's not been easy and it's taken a long time. i still resort to old ways sometimes. after years of not cutting, i cut this spring. i felt so shamed to have done that. last time i drank, i drank to blackout. it scared me. i drank because i was depressed. it didn't help.

i hope you are able to find your path to healing. everyone's path is different. you don't need your friends to agree with you to have it be your truth. I applaud you for having the courage to speak your truth.

fiddler

[ananke]

I call myself a high functioning alchoholic. I need it to socialise enjoyably. I'm banned from drinking alone (the last time ended up destroying four years of not cutting, a 1am phonecall to a friend and storming out of my house in bloodstained pj's while not wearing my glasses). When I drink, I drink heavily. It's been a long time since I went a week without a drink, if not drunkeness. I drank over a litre of vodka in five days during the first week of my holidays.

But, most people insist I'm not an alchoholic. I think because I don't flip ot so badly if I drink with friends and I'm not a mean drunk. I don't do stupid shit. But I'm just like my Da, who was a raging alchoholic for 30 years. I don't want to end up like that.

[p_176]

fiddler - sorry that things are like that in your marriage because of alcohol. i dated an alcoholic about 5 years ago, and i'm still getting over the side effects - namely, i drank more when i dated him, and so have continued that habit. i'm only recently cutting drastically back on my level of drinking (i was at the point where i could drink an entire bottle of wine, drive my car to meet friends, drink more, drive home, and wake up the next morning with barely a hangover. since i cut back to only 2-3 drinks per week, i'm losing my tolerance level. it's so great!)
i could see how close i was to becoming pretty dependent on alcohol. so i had to stop.

[kiss_the_fiddler]

alcohol is a problem in my marriage. my wife drinks. she's an alcoholic but unless and until she's ready to claim it, i don't get to say that. i hate it that she drinks. i hate the way booze smells on her breath. i hate how unpredictable she is when she's been drinking. she doesn't understand that her drinking effects my life at all. she goes to her mom's one night a week to drink. i know, it sounds like i'm being extreme but it doesn't feel extreme to have to live with it.

alcohol scares me. what it does to people scares me. i see how it ruins lives. i see how helpless people become in the face of it.

[felinewarrior]

It's a tough thing to do - check out this page: http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/interventio...ntervention.htm for possible tips.

Another idea is to go to an Alanon meeting in your area - people there may have had some experience doing interventions. Not knowing any of you, I won't give any advice regarding the parents.

About a year before I ended up getting sober, 3 girlfriends showed up unexpectedly, poured out my wine, then dragged me from my apartment in what I now call The Failed Intervention. We went to the hospital where I was examined and given the diagnosis of "borderline personality disorder," told to quit drinking and go to AA meetings. And then I was released back to the care of my friends. They were all pretty mad, as they'd been hoping I'd be held by the hospital. I'd become a cutter, so had hash marks on my arms, not to mention the lovely vomit stains on my clothes. (Ah, the glamor of active alcoholism!) It *is* kind of a wonder they let me go, but maybe it was a busy night i the ER. After they took me home, I dug out my HIDDEN supply of booze and finished off the night in my usual fashion.

Now... don't let that keep you from helping your friend... I'm telling you that because while the intervention itself didn't have the outcome my friends wanted, it did plant a seed - I was at my most unlovable point in life. I completely hated myself, was humiliated and horrified by my drunken behaviors. And these 3 women cared enough to go through all of that. When I finally did "turn myself in" to AA, those 3 women were among the very few I had left as true friends. And they were still there for me.

So don't be afraid to do something. Just be prepared for an outcome that doesn't match your hopes. And remember - you cannot make anyone get sober. I have a brother out there (somewhere) who we haven't been able to sober up and it breaks my heart. I completely expect to get a phone call about his untimely death. Why? Because nobody can make an addicted person change - such is the nature of this beast, I'm afraid. As much as I've observed, thought, studied and pondered, I can't figure out why it has to come from within, but it does.

Anyway... sorry for the length here. This is a subject I know and care a lot about - because I *am* a recovered alcoholic, because I'm involved in 12 step work and so it is dear to my heart. If there's anything I can to do to help, please let me know.

[shannon]

Thanks feline, yeah we're just talking about it right now between our friends. We thought about bringing it up to his parents and maybe an intervention. Just not sure the best way to handle it.

[felinewarrior]

Hey, Shannon- That's how it was for me in the last years of my drinking: I HAD to do it. It wasn't fun anymore, no longer social - a solitary task because any other way would have raised way too many eyebrows. I couldn't really afford to drink in bars the way I needed to, so drinking at home made the most sense (using the word "sense" loosely). So there I was, alone every night, just drinking. Pretending that the next day would be different.

Do you have plans to intervene or anything to help your friend?