[LoveMyPugs]

i want to share some thoughts if no one minds.

lately i've found that i'm being very mean to myself. i don't believe mr. pugs when he says he finds me attractive. i feel like the ugliest, fattest person whenever i'm in a crowd of people. i don't feel like i offer anything to the relationship. i feel like i owe mr. pugs something all the time and i hold him higher then myself.

mr. pugs got really angry with me while on vacation because of this. he gets angry when i call myself fat or unatttractive. he gets angry when i say that i don't bring anything to the table and he could just leave me at any time. he said he was just frustrated with my attitude.

so i watched myself for the next couple days and he's soooo right. when we were in the pool while on vacation i seriously kept covering myself because i felt like a whale while everyone else was a toothpick. to be honest, everyone in the pool was overweight. even the lifeguard was curvy. mr. pugs is overweight, our friends are overweight. the two other ladies swimming at the pool were obviously plus size. why do i then feel like the largest person in the crowd? mr. pugs never says anything to me about my weight other then i'm beauitful, sexy and turn him on constantly.

one thing is my mother is very hard on me about my weight. it's gotten to the point where i hate seeing her because she always says something about the clothes i wear. i'm trying to show a little more clevege and wear more feminine shirts instead of just oversized t-shirts because mr. pugs says i look so good. i like how he makes me feel but then my mom will say something and i feel ugly again. i'm trying to loose weight by dieting and exercise and i'm doing well but she puts pressure on me to stick to it and not to quit like i've done all the times before. i get frustrated and the pressure to not fail is too great and i quit. so i think i just need to stop listening to her and just do what i want to do.

the other aspect is the fact that i'm not working. right now i am for this summer internship but after august i'll be back to student status again going to school fulltime and mr. pugs will be bringing in all the income. i feel like i've lost a bit of my independence and self esteam by turning over all the responsiblity to him. the one thing that always makes me feel good is our home. i feel like our home is really my home. i work hard to keep it clean, neat and i'm very proud of it. lately i've just slacked and i think i'm going to try to return to taking care of our home. i love doing it. it makes me feel good.

last but not least, i think i'm taking this "submissive" role the wrong way. i think i've lost myself a bit. i used to be this honry little sex goddess who would grab up on her man when no one was looking. i wore little shirts that showed my curves. i would talk dirty to him in his ear. i knew in my heart that i have him, he's mine and he wants no other woman. so why has this changed? why don't i feel like this anymore? it's not him. really it's not. he doesn't like this new me either. he liked the girl with the confidence. where did she go?

so i think i have to make some changes. here are my goals:

1) Stop listening to mom. She's an asshole. She's not helping only harming.
2) Keep dieting and exercising. I feel better when I'm eating better and taking my walks.
3) Focus on school. Doing well and getting great grades. That's my job, my work right now.
4) Focus on the house. That's my domain. I like it clean and I feel proud when I get things done.
5) Be more positive to myself. I'm smart, attractive, sexy, great in bed, funny and I bring a lot to the table.
6) Being submissive is good but being a brat is fun so I need to stop taking it so seriously. Mr. Pugs is a wonderful man but I'm a wonderful woman as well.

Can anyone else read this and understand what I'm saying and where I'm trying to go from here? I could use some advice or suggestions or something. I'm not fishing for compliments or a self esteam boast. I just want to share that I think I'm way to wrapped up in the keeping my head down and my mouth shut aspect of submission that I'm missing out on the fun that comes with breaking the rules or not doing what I'm told and challenging Mr. pugs to step up to me. I mean I think what he loves about me and always has is my confidence and it's just gone the last year or so. I have to work to get it back.

[mornington]

gt... have to admit, I was pleasantly surprised to find the article on that site, as it's usually quite (how best to say this)... sexually conservative is probably the best description. I'm not trying to start that conversation up again, I just wanted to point it out as it's a uk blog so I figured you guys would be less likely to have seen it.

culture... I ended up writing the author a comment saying thank you, as well as saying that I felt my kinkier relationships were those in which I felt accorded more respect and worth, and as such, I'm likely to consider those relationships more "feminist", especially as I feel I'm being true to myself within that relationship.

pugs... glad it worked out and you didn't have to go through trauma.

[culturehandy]

I remember when all that shit went down. Disaster.

I'm just going to say, how is taking control of your sexuality NOT feminist?? As those of us who engage in D/s stuff, it's all about mutual love and respect. People who attack D/s 1) don't know about it and are scared of it or 2) are one of those people who engages and are trying to take the attention away from themselves.

I know when I'm in a scene I feel very loved and respected by my top. Even aside from our sexuality, there is mutual respect and caring about our friendship.

Anyhows...

Pugs, glad to hear that everything went well with your friend.

[LoveMyPugs]

actually, the next day after i talked to her fiance...he texted messaged me and said that they had their talk and everything went much better then he thought it would. since that i haven't heard a peep. i'm kinda glad. my brain went into vacation mode and stayed there all week and i didn't feel like dealing with the drama. seriously, she never listens to a word i say anyway so it's kinda pointless. she's going to do what she wants to do anyway. thanks for all the advice.

[neurotic.nelly]

*peeks head in to say hi*
I will have a few questions after I've down more reading... I get so hot reading this thread...
*pokes head out while waving bye*

[girltrouble]

remember THOSE conversations in this thread.

all too well. this thread, others, and some pretty bad pms. i was rereading them last weekend. as much as i thought i was over it, i've still got hard feelings about some of the things said by certain people...

nice to see the point i was trying to make made other places tho.

It is surely a mistake for anyone within the feminist movement to sit in judgement on another woman’s sexual preferences.

thanks for the linky, mornington. i went and found the writer's blog... turns out ze is a f2m tranny.

******

pugs,
on second thought, if you can extricate yourself from the sitch, do. listen to star. if not, i hope my advise was helpful.

[stargazer]

interesting article morn. i think BDSM does bring all sorts of reactions within the feminist community. some of which we tried to discuss several moons ago. oy vey. remember THOSE conversations in this thread.

pugs, wow, what a complicated story. my first guy instinct is...stay out of the drama. do not put yourself in the middle of the fracas. i'm sure you mean well. but, i don't think it is wise to take on someone else's relationship issues. it sounds pretty unfortunate that this couple is having problems.

[mornington]

*sticks head in*

I saw this and immediately thought of you guys; don't think it's covering anything that hasn't been talked over here, but... I'm kindof cheered it's beginning to be discussed more positively in feminist circles.

pugs, how did things go?

[girltrouble]

my advise, pugs, whenever talking to someone about a topic you've heard about first from another party is to feign innocence.

so to talk to your friend about what her fiance said to you, you could say, 'your fiance said that your boss was a dom. has your boss talked about the lifestyle? it'd be so cool to talk to someone else in the lifestyle!!' you bring up the subject but in an oblique manner, she can feel like she can confide in you. but if you tell her her fiance called you and told you everything. to her you've taken sides. thing is to kind of play therapist. you can have an opinion, but convey it by asking the right questions. do your level best not to say it, untill you've been pushed to it.

did he tell you about my boss?
-no, i called him to tell him about (something), a long time ago, and he said something about your boss being funny. i asked how, and he said he's into that thing that you and mr pugs are into, you know, bdsm.

-i thought that was odd, cos, i wonder how he knew. mr pugs and i only tell close friends, so i was wondering if he had some flogger lying around or something.

i kind of have a thing going with the boss.... it's weird.
- what kind of weird? is he married?


its in the questions. if she says yes, then you can tell her if he is married, but polly or an open relationship, then the wife should have no problem talking to your friend.

make her think. remind her that it's best to be cautious when dealing with bdsm. trust is crucial. but more if she's interested in the lifestyle, she needs to talk to her fiance.


hope that helps pugsy.

[LoveMyPugs]

sorry...double post

[LoveMyPugs]

So my one girlfriend, we'll call her Rena has been driving me crazy. She lives with her boyfriend and they got engaged back in December. This guy she's with really, really loves her but she is just bat shit crazy. One minute she's up and one mintues she's down, emotionally that is. I mean I can't keep up with her and neither can he. She's very hard on him. He tries to do everything she want and to her it's just not enough. We've been fighting about her attitude for almost a year now. It seems that in the last year it's just gotten out of control. Last week she kind of did something to me that pissed me off badly. So yesterday I wrote her this long email telling her how I felt about everything. When I sent it to her I blind carbon copied her fiance so he'd know where I stood. I've never really talked to him one on one. So after he gets the email he writes me and says that he'd like to call me that night if I wouldn't mind. I said of course.

Last night he called. I thought we were just going to talk about how bratty she is and that maybe he was thinking of leaving her. He asks me if she's every mentioned this one particular guy's name. I told him yes but it was a long time ago. Apparently, it's her boss or something. He and his wife are in a 24/7 BDSM marriage. Well, this married dominant man has been activily pursing Rena. They've been text messaging back and forth for months now. Rena is completely vanilla and I know she has no clue that this guy could potentionally be a predator. When she's with him I think he emotionally dominates her. I think he puts her in subspace with what he says then when she's not with him she crashes and takes it out on her fiance. This dominate knows that she is engaged and is still giving her the full court press. Now she is sneaking around behind her fiance's back.

She usually shares everything with me but she hasn't told me any of this. She tells her fiance that she's only talking to this guy because he gives her information about the lifestyle to improve her and her fiance's sex life/relationship. I think this is bullshit. She knows I am in this lifestyle as well and that if she wanted information she could come to me. This dominate has her in his grasp and I think she's about to loose her fiance.

Her fiance was really upset last night talking to me. I've known this guy for eight years and he's never confided in me like this. He's very worried and doesn't know what to do. He's convinced that she's cheated and to be honest so am I. I think this dom has gotten into her head and she thinks she has nothing to loose.

He was going to talk to her last night. The "big talk" and lay it all out for her. He was going to tell her that him and I talked also. Then he was going to email me later today to tell me how it went. He asked me that if he can't get through to her would I talk to her about what I know about this lifestyle and to try to convince her that this dom has his own desires at heart and won't stick around when she crashes and burns. I told him I would try but I don't know how deep she is in with this dude.

If I have to talk to her what do I say? How do I start this off? We've never been shy about sex wth one another. We've always been able to talk openly about these sorts of things. I've already pushed her away with this email that I sent her only because I didn't know what was really going on. Now I have to rebuild that friendship and try to save her from this dom who is pursing her. I also need to convince her that she really is happy with her fiance and that this dom is not looking out for her best interests. How do I say all that?

[Miss Deena]

There have been people in my life that when they found out about me interests think that I just like to "beat up people". I can say that yes I enjoy causing pain, but more so I want my partner to enjoy the pain I am causing. I think it is great that you found someone within whom you can trust your most guarded spots. If you are finding pleasure in your pain then enjoy your pleasure. You can call it whatever you like, you don't have to try and fit it into a category if you don't want to. The couple who has never before had anything but vanilla encounters, one night blindfolds their partner, they don't think it anything but spice. They don't ever say that they are experimenting in BDSM but in truth some might call it so. If you are interested in more forms of pain/pleasure or want to add it into your play then good for you. Closing your eyes and pretending you don't like it because it doesn't fit into what others believe to be normal won't bring you the pleasure you could have. So I say enjoy and treasure it for what you are able to share.

*my two cents*

[vixen_within]

[culturehandy]

I think there is a myth and misconception, lets say a mythconception, about what BDSM. Those outside the realsm of BDSM, or kink, seem to think that it's all about pain and verbal abuse, leather fetishes and "lick my boot heals you worthless dog" kind of thing. There is far more to it. As GT said earlier, anything that isn't vanilla is BDSM to me.

The pleasure/pain thing as your describing, Doodle, is an element of BDSM. There doesn't *have* to be sex involved, in your case, often times it does. It's your foreplay, you know how things are going to end up, it's your play. The end result of BDSM isn't always a bloody back, we all have our own things. I personally love having marks left on my body. It's a secret reminder of what I've done and my kinks. Makes me smile when I see where things can go and what has happened.

I'd say sure, why isn't it BDSM. Just because it may not be that hardcore yet, doesn't mean it isn't BDSM. Look at the people who have the fetish of dressing up as babies then getting "scolded" by a nanny, there is no pain there, but it is still a fetish and kink.

[girltrouble]

for me BDSM is kind of a catch all.

in some circles, they use the acronym, WIIWD-- which stands for What It Is We Do, to explain things. since there are so many things that fall under the BDSM rubic, and it's so different for each person/couple.

i like that you used the word paradigm, since that's how i think about BDSM-- it's more of an aproach of exploration, and as you said, it's more than just pain and pleasure. it's about 'scratching an itch' that you know you have or being touched in a new way, so to speak. it's about exploring psychological, emotional or physical, or any combonation there of. it really is what you put into it or what you want to get out of it.

when dealing with the physical (in this case i am talking about it as a top), to me it is about learning my partner's body, what it responds to, trying things and figuring how their body works and then using that to take them somewhere. add the psychological and emotional and that journey can be spiritual. bdsm gives me a kind of arsenal to try things. i can use implements: rope, flogggers, whips, canes, or just my body. i can use mood:words, clothes, role playing, fetishes. i can use time, anticipation, attraction, i can use your senses, playing with sound and sensation.

but i am babbling on. you want to know if it's a form of BDSM. i'd say yes, but i have a rather expansive view of it. lol... to me if it's not missionary or if harsh words are said it's bdsm. just kidding. my suggestion is that you talk to your friend about his aproach and how he manipulates your body so that you can give that information to your other partners. *shrugs* that way you can teach others to make you feel good, which isn't a bad thing. plus you might just learn something about your own body, which can't be a bad thing.

i don't know if you had question, but that's my take on your sitch.

[doodlebug]

Okay, I don't know if this is the right place for this discussion/question, but I am thus prompted by girltrouble to go ahead and post here! So I will. If I should take it to the General Sex thread or some other place, please tell me.

I have been thinking lately, or wondering, about the nature of pain and pleasure, and wondering what fits in to the BDSM category.

A little background: I have painfully twisted up myofascial tissue all around my muscles (chronic myofascial pain), underneath my skin. I have huge knots and big blister patches of little tiny (really painful) knots. Sometimes I always hurt, sometimes it's localized and really bad, sometimes I can ignore it, but it's always there, somewhere in my body. I have let no one touch some of these areas of my body - not even a massage therapist or a lover....until I met this guy. This guy is the only guy I've ever known who knows how to give a massage the way I really want it and need it: brutally. He is strong and he works my body over like a big lump of sculptor's clay. And shortly into our sexual affiliation, I've started letting him go after the REALLY painful blisters of twisted tissue. It hurts like hell - ALL massaging the way I really want it hurts, but I feel like I need it that way, because it's the only way I can get a release. Before this one, I found most massaging too light and not long enough, plus I was extremely ticklish to lighter touches and found medium-strength touching to give me sharp, unenjoyable pain....seriously, there are places his strong hands go that no human being has ever even been allowed to even brush up against, and it's like I NEED that deeper pain.

And the funniest thing is, when this guy works my body, it's like the pain BECOMES pleasure. He knows exactly how to find my pain spots and sneak up on them, pushing the pain to only the very limit that I can take it, and then turning it into pleasure. Like, seriously, I get turned on, in a big way. We both do. I can take this pain/pleasure paradigm for a long time, and he can give it for a long time (he's REALLY strong and fit), and it puts us into this mutually meditative state of pre-orgasmic bliss, like he is totally reading my body and I'm letting him, and it's all about him working THROUGH my pain to release my body (and my mind, too, I think....I have to go so far inside myself to let him "hurt" me like this). I don't even resist any of it, unless it's absolutely too painful. It seems to always ends with me begging for his cock in my ass and collapsing and almost passing out on the bed afterwards....it works me up so much. The ass sex never hurts, but I get a deep ache in the rest of my body, from the brutalizing torture (he even calls it that), and I seem to revel in it...it's a good ache. I feel so much more at home in my body these days, and I am always anticipating the next brutal massage that will end in a good, hard ass-fucking.

Maybe I'm misunderstood the pain/pleasure paradigm of BDSM, but lately it's got me thinking that what I'm experiencing follows parallel lines. I realize that pain is not the whole gamut of BDSM, and yes, we do play around at other games, like role play and light bondage, and a bit of ass-slapping...and I'm thinking about maybe going further. But I'm wondering if I'm way off base in thinking this itself is a form of BDSM, and I'm also wondering what others think about it? I'm not writing this to acquire (or avoid) a label, but I am very curious.

[culturehandy]

I'm dying to try it out. With that said, the timing has to be right, I can' always take it that well, the week before my period is hands down the best time for the most extreme. I can always take it, but that week is the best.

Sigh. I want to use it soooooo badly.

[Miss Deena]

Not tried it yet! What a shame. *giggle* On that not I have a flogger that I got and have not had a chance to try that out either. And i must agree that using it on yourself just is not the same. I hope you get a chance very soon, for I am sure that you are itching to try it.

The most public place so far is a steam room with glass doors at a hotel. That was such a rush!

[culturehandy]

Miss Deena, I haven't had a chance to try it out yet. Soon enough, there is only one who will try it at this point, I don't think the others would feel comfortable whacking me with it! I did give myself a whack with it, not exactly the same, but it will be a lot of fun.

I loves me some exhibitionism. I totally am, oh the things I've done...

[Miss Deena]

Ah Culture you make me smile. That paddle is very beautiful and well made. I love the long paddles they feel better to swing for me. Have you had a chance to test it out yet, I bet it makes a great sound. Thank you for sharing those pictures with us!

Pugs - Those are so pretty!

I have been told I am an exhibitionist, I guess I am, for I just loved giving my driving partner a hand job while we were on a sunset jaunt.