[spot-on]

Buttercups/Angie I think we also need to remember Breast Augmentation isn't a one surgery deal (unlike say a nose job) cos you need repeat surgeries to replace the implants every 8-10 years assuming that everything goes well in the first place!

Starship, great pics, love the dress! Never heard of her but my figure is pretty similar to hers so Yay! Though she has a smaller waist than me I think.

[anarch]

starship, thanks for posting the pic of Frankie Sandford. I normally hate one-shoulder dresses, but that one's gorgeous. It shows her off so nicely!

[angie_21]

Are you guys on the same internet I'm on?

This brings me to a third point, with 'men craving an idealized image.' I do not fully agree on this, either. There is a difference between a preference and being shallow. If a man likes slim women with large breasts, it is his preference. This, in itself, does not make him shallow. In order for him to be shallow, he has to denounce any and all women who do not comply with his standards. If porn taught me one thing...it's that over-generalizing is bad.

ha I was starting to wonder the exact same question!! And I also disagree with the idea that all men are somehow starting to crave this "idealized" image. The more commonplace the plastic image becomes, the less arrtactive it will seem to them. This is the way humanity has been for thousands of years. People want the things that seem unique and better and for the upper classes, then the lower and middle classes copy these things, then they become more common and the upper classes move on to something new and interesting. Fashion, beauty, design, all different kinds of trends have worked this way. Plastic surgery experienced a recent boom due to technological advances, and we are just starting to see the aftermath. It's already become such a huge topic of discussion that "natural" is coming back into style.

In the meantime, I don't know if you guys allow yourselves to becom familiar enough with western countercultre. For everything that is popular in the mainstream, there are plenty of folks who HATE it. Spend time with these people, on their websites, watching their movies and listening to their music instead of the mainstream. There's even many different subcultures - there's indie, punk, LGBT communities, activist communities, college communities, anarchists, and a ton of people who just don't care (OK I smooshed a lot of different kinds of categories into one list there, but you get the idea, there's lots of variety!). They are all a lot more interesting and a lot more fun than the mainstream, and a lot less focused on physical appearance.

Buttercups, I know you think you would be satisfied after one surgery.. but that's definitely not the common pattern. People get surgery because they place such a high value on their apearance they are willing to sacrifice health and money for it. It's addictive to be able to satisfy that physical need, and it's also temporary. Until you can stop judging yourself based on how you look, you won't be satisfied.

[starship]

I don't watch porn because when I've seen stuff in the past it's all been pretty disgusting rather than sexy imo. Realistic amature stuff appeals more but I'd rather just avoid porn altogether rather than trawling through loads of stuff that makes me feel crappy trying to find some of the ok stuff.

I never actually realised before that frankie sandford(british girl band member) had small boobs but look:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/artic...ie-Poynter.html
I love the pic with Jarvis Cocker
I'd only ever noticed how sexy she was. And so did others because she's No.4 in FHMs 100 sexiest women list (FHM= UK 'mens' magazine)

I also read today that Marks&Spencer are releasing a new bra that adds 2cup sizes using some kind of extra light padding. I think it's similar to what some of you have described at victoria secret? might have to give it a go out of curiosity...

And I don't know about safety etc but I definatly wouldn't go for the fat being sucked outta my ass to be pumped into my breasts- i love my bum too much:S

[karategrrl]

That type of surgery has a much longer recovery period (since two or more areas have received trauma.) I also believe that the body wants to go back to its natural equilibrium, so if she loses weight from her breasts, I doubt they'd return. It opens up a whole new set of worries. Also, can't the fat migrate to other areas of the body? I'm not well-read on this procedure.

My friend had this. It was difficult in many ways, and she's back to where she was--her breasts shrank back.

[buttercups]

Yeah it was really sad to see her ready to go under the knife again so soon. The other woman wanted another nose job. She got it, and was fine with it for a few days. Then she went back to not liking it again. Sometimes I wonder if I would be like that- if I fixed my boobs would I just fixate on another part of my body? Would nothing ever be good enough? Or if I fixed my boobs would it stop there and would I be able to end this struggle I'm having? Of course theres plenty of other areas of my body I don't like- I could list a million but I'll spare you all bc I acknowledge that alot of it is just pathetic at this point, but none of the other things that I really don't like about myself have seemed to bother me as much as my breasts. For whatever reason all those other parts seem "liveable", like I can live with that and even though I don't like it I don't feel crazy enough about it to have to change it. If i got my boobs done would these things become more important? I just dont know. I've asked myself this plenty of times and the answer I come back to is no, if I got my boobs done that would be it. But I guess you never really know. Maybe the reason I think that is because I feel like every other part of my body is average- like everyone elses. And this one part I feel "cheated" on, like its below average and thats why I want to change it. Don't get me wrong I'm a helluva lot better off than I was before I came here (much thanks to you all), but I still feel like changing this part is almost deserved because its not average and I feel entitled to average for some strange reason. Anyways, I'm way too much of a wuss to go under the knife, especially after watching this show. Not worth it. At least padded bras don't make you sick.

[nbdx0645]

C's would be huge for me! I completely understand where you're coming from.

My heart really goes out to the woman who suffered from silicone poisoning. It's a real shame that she's going to try the fat-graft procedure. That type of surgery has a much longer recovery period (since two or more areas have received trauma.) I also believe that the body wants to go back to its natural equilibrium, so if she loses weight from her breasts, I doubt they'd return. It opens up a whole new set of worries. Also, can't the fat migrate to other areas of the body? I'm not well-read on this procedure.

Speaking of bad plastic surgery, have you ever seen this site? http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/categor...fore-and-after/
The category with the most "bad jobs" is, of course, breast implants. And many pics are of well to-do celebrities. Sad.

Oh, if you don't mind me asking, who was the other woman who hated her plastic surgery procedure?

[spot-on]

See THAT is fucked up! Seriously she had all this pain from her implants, had them taken out and was honestly LUCKY that her health recovered (sometimes it doesn't when they remove the implants). So now she wants some other crazy procedure? Might I suggest a psychologist instead?

Smaller women generally have smaller boobs, women in fitness generally have smaller boobs as they have lower body fat. And the problem is when these women get implants they usually look ridiculous because of their small frames or low body fat. I've seen too many fake ones lately on smaller girls that have the 1/2 coconuts under the skin look. *shudder* not a good look at all! How can they think that looks better? Fucked up I tell ya!

I was watching True Life on Mtv last night, it was a new episode about 2 girls who hate their plastic surgery. One of the girls was a fitness trainer who got breast implants and she was suffering horribly from silicone poisoning. First of all, she was a 34 C before she got the implants. I hate seeing stuff like that, bc as much as I know that people have all sorts of insecurities and everything, I think getting implants when you're already that big is just being greedy (but thats me and my AAs talkin- so C's are huge to me)! I can at least understand getting your boobs done when youre my size, bc honestly theres not much more than a nipple there! But regardless, so she goes through the whole episode in agony, wondering if she'll ever be healthy again, and they take out her implants. Suddenly she is healthy again and looking great! I was so happy for her. Then she gets back into talking about how her breasts are way too small now and she goes for a consult for another procedure- the kind where the move the fat from your ass or somewhere and put it into your breasts (which I have to be honest I paid attention to bc that is definitely something I could go for haha). It was disappointing to see someone who was in so much pain earlier in the episode, then go through this wonderful transformation when she lost her implants, only to come out looking for something else and potentially putting herself back in harms way. yuck.

[buttercups]

Yeah I was going to say the same thing nbdx, I don't know much about current porn cause I've avoided it since it always made me feel bad. But pixie tits does rock! And thanks for the kind words Karategrrl!

I was watching True Life on Mtv last night, it was a new episode about 2 girls who hate their plastic surgery. One of the girls was a fitness trainer who got breast implants and she was suffering horribly from silicone poisoning. First of all, she was a 34 C before she got the implants. I hate seeing stuff like that, bc as much as I know that people have all sorts of insecurities and everything, I think getting implants when you're already that big is just being greedy (but thats me and my AAs talkin- so C's are huge to me)! I can at least understand getting your boobs done when youre my size, bc honestly theres not much more than a nipple there! But regardless, so she goes through the whole episode in agony, wondering if she'll ever be healthy again, and they take out her implants. Suddenly she is healthy again and looking great! I was so happy for her. Then she gets back into talking about how her breasts are way too small now and she goes for a consult for another procedure- the kind where the move the fat from your ass or somewhere and put it into your breasts (which I have to be honest I paid attention to bc that is definitely something I could go for haha). It was disappointing to see someone who was in so much pain earlier in the episode, then go through this wonderful transformation when she lost her implants, only to come out looking for something else and potentially putting herself back in harms way. yuck.

[karategrrl]

Men comment about how great their 'pixie tits' look

Bwahahahaha!! Pixie tits!!! I love it!!! I have pixie tits!! Long live pixie tits!!!!

nbdx, you are probably more of an authority on current porn than I am. I've been so disgusted by most of it in the past that I really don't seek it out anymore, and if what you're saying is true (about the diversity in porn), then I'm basing my opinions on old stuff. Another reason I generally don't seek it out is my concern about picking up all sorts of wacky computer viruses and pop-ups, which are common with many porn sites. If one of you posts a link to a hot small-breasted woman or mentions a small-breasted porn star, I'll check it out but generally I don't go there--in the past, anyway, it's been too scary.


Total topic shift: Last week a male friend said that when he first met me, his first impression was that I looked like Milla Jovovich--same body type. I'm still flying high with that compliment!!!!!! Thought you all could appreciate that.

[nbdx0645]

Are you guys on the same internet I'm on? I can find a fair amount of 'average Joe and Betty-Sue' porn. I used to let large tit porn get me down. I used to seek it out so I could feel bad about myself and I used to be incredibly jealous over 'breasted females' (yes, I gave them a label.) Perhaps some porn stars would be happy to hear that they make women all over the nation feel terribly inadequate, but I'd bet that some porn stars would be incredibly upset to hear the same news. In fact, some women pose to reveal normal body types -- and receive great appreciation. Men comment about how great their 'pixie tits' look or how they want to blow raspberries on their 'soft tummy.' One man commented on a pale girl who had large moles all over her body, 'You look like chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream. I want to eat you up!' You girls are looking for porn in all the wrong places!

I've been hanging out with a fairly open circle of friends lately, and they laugh at the cookie-cutter porn that has been discussed below. I feel that the "Playboy Model" era is becoming dated, and alt porn is forming its own identity. Porn is no longer a homogenized commodity; there are oodles of sites and spin-offs for different tastes, where stars blog about their experiences, become candid with their viewers, and facilitate discourse. It's a step in the right direction. I refuse to be jealous over an actress, and I'm not going to let other's expectations on the body get in my head. There's always going to be men who want the bimbo look. Same with the athlete, the school girl, the rubenesque, and so on.

This brings me to a third point, with 'men craving an idealized image.' I do not fully agree on this, either. There is a difference between a preference and being shallow. If a man likes slim women with large breasts, it is his preference. This, in itself, does not make him shallow. In order for him to be shallow, he has to denounce any and all women who do not comply with his standards. If porn taught me one thing...it's that over-generalizing is bad.

[anarch]

And would the majority of guys find my body attractive? Probably not. But if porn didn't reinforce these unrealistic body standards than guys would be at least used to natural female bodies

Yes to the last sentence. As to the question, I think that a lot of guys who we hear dissing normal women's bodies, they're just doing it as a sort of one-upmanship among their buddies, the point being to out-macho each other. "I'm more hetero-manly than you," kind of thing. Public performance vs private behavior. Not that that excuses it. I just mention it because so much of what passes for "being a man" in our culture is that kind of alpha performative dogma-enforcing shit. Men who like out-of-the-dogma beauty often won't say so because of the social risks.

[starship]

Karategrrl, that is my exact problem with porn: it " perpetuates body images, etc. that just aren't realistic (but some people actually think they are)*" If porn showed more regular people with a variety of body types, I wouldnt feel so offended or bothered by it My main problem with porn (besides that fact that it is almost completely male-centered) is that it does promote these body image ideals that are impossible to live up to, but a lot of guys believe that real women look like that. They have come to expect us to have giant plastic boobs and tiny waists, and child-like va-jayjays. And the thing that really bothers me is that most of the men in porn are not attractive (at least in my opinion). It is always some ugly dude who happens to have a big dick with some stereotypically "beautiful" woman. Porn makes me feel bad about myself because I will compare myself to those women, expecting I'm supposed to look like them, but of course thats impossible. I'm small, have tiny boobs to match my small frame, cellulite on my ass, short legs, a bit of a tummy, I'm a natural woman who has not undergone any plastic changes. But I hate how porn makes that abnormal. And would the majority of guys find my body attractive? Probably not. But if porn didn't reinforce these unrealistic body standards than guys would be at least used to natural female bodies and maybe they would be more like to find someone like me to be not totally unfortunate-looking. Of course it isn't only porn that upholds these unrealistic body standards, its our whole culture, but it pisses me off and I always wonder how I would have done if we didn't live in this world where fake is passed off as real all the time. I just want to see some normal people goddamnit!

completely agree

[karategrrl]

buttercups, you are so totally on the money with all you said, though I do argue with just one thing.

As much as men can annoy and, frankly, disgust the fuck out of me on a fairly regular basis, I know that not all of them are assholes who want plastic barbies, and many men do know that there's a lot of fake shit going on. Unfortunately, I think men with a sense of REALITY on this topic are in the minority (and today's boys and teens DO get warped perceptions), but they are out there.

"And would the majority of guys find my body attractive? Probably not. "

I've seen pics of you, girlfriend, and you have that cute hotness (or is it hot cuteness?) thing going on, big-time. I would think a hella lotta guys would knock down the door to get groovy with you/have a relationship with you, just as you are, and would prefer you to some cyborg-like, implanted, surgically altered half-human blowup doll. So there. And I say that with love.


And EWWWW yes, most of the people in porn ARE just plain gross. Often the men are just there to act out what the male viewer wishes he were doing--living vicariously, lube in palm.

[buttercups]

Karategrrl, that is my exact problem with porn: it " perpetuates body images, etc. that just aren't realistic (but some people actually think they are)*" If porn showed more regular people with a variety of body types, I wouldnt feel so offended or bothered by it My main problem with porn (besides that fact that it is almost completely male-centered) is that it does promote these body image ideals that are impossible to live up to, but a lot of guys believe that real women look like that. They have come to expect us to have giant plastic boobs and tiny waists, and child-like va-jayjays. And the thing that really bothers me is that most of the men in porn are not attractive (at least in my opinion). It is always some ugly dude who happens to have a big dick with some stereotypically "beautiful" woman. Porn makes me feel bad about myself because I will compare myself to those women, expecting I'm supposed to look like them, but of course thats impossible. I'm small, have tiny boobs to match my small frame, cellulite on my ass, short legs, a bit of a tummy, I'm a natural woman who has not undergone any plastic changes. But I hate how porn makes that abnormal. And would the majority of guys find my body attractive? Probably not. But if porn didn't reinforce these unrealistic body standards than guys would be at least used to natural female bodies and maybe they would be more like to find someone like me to be not totally unfortunate-looking. Of course it isn't only porn that upholds these unrealistic body standards, its our whole culture, but it pisses me off and I always wonder how I would have done if we didn't live in this world where fake is passed off as real all the time. I just want to see some normal people goddamnit!

[koffeewitch]

On the whole airbrushing thing... I'm always blown away when I pick up European magazines (like for knitting patterns) and I have this sudden culture shock when I see that the models have visible moles, birth marks, and pores on their skin. They have dimples in their knees and hair on their forearms and all kinds of suspiciously human features. I have become so accustomed to air-brushing that I am momentarily shocked to see "real" human bodies! How totally fucked up is THAT?!

[karategrrl]

today I went on a trampoline and whilst my friend was desperately clutching her boobs I was able to let my arms (and not my boobs) swing free. woo. 1-0 to small boobies

;)Love it!!



"the fact that people find stuff like that funny does seem to me like a sure sign of the coming apocalypse.

But anyways, what my point was, somewhere back there, was that if porno is that messed up and that far away from reality, I don't think we smallies should take it personally that small boobs get stuck in the barely legal category, when the whole thing is usually pretty offensive to women in general."

Good points.

My biggest beefs (no pun intended) with porn is:

-Excessive airbrushing, exaggerations, etc. that perpetuate body images, etc. that just aren't realistic (but some people actually think they are)*
-When someone would rather have sex with their hand and a magazine than a living, breathing willing partner. That's fucked up.

*Case in point: Crazy 1st BF who actually thought all the fake and misogynistic crap they printed in those cheap/trashy mags was real.

[starship]

I only said under 18 because i know that that's what most of the world use to describe underage girls. the age of consent here is actually 16 and I think that's about right tbh. And anyway it's usually the less borderline ages that the type of porn I was thinking of tries to emulate- like 13year olds or younger who've barely reached puberty. I know a lot of men like the whole dressing up in school uniform 'you've been a naughty girl' kind of thing, but trying to replicate child porn to the extent that it looks realistic is a whole different ball game as far as i'm concerned.
But then again you guys are right and there is a lot about porn I disagree with. Not the idea of porn, just the way a lot of it's executed and how there's so much stuff available to people that leaves them with completely distorted views on sex (whole 'nother thread, i know, i know...)

ahh.

today I went on a trampoline and whilst my friend was desperately clutching her boobs I was able to let my arms (and not my boobs) swing free. woo. 1-0 to small boobies

[nbdx0645]

We should also take a step back and think of all the women who do not fit into the 'barely legal' category, but wish they were able to.

[angie_21]

we had a conversation about the tanner scale a while back on this thread, apparently they actually still teach it in some schools (??!!) It just makes no sense whatsoever.

AP for sure I am highly entertained by UFC when it is on at the bar, especially because of the obvious homoerotic aspects to it. I've never seen anything else on TV where 2 men end up in a 69 position about 4 or 5 times in a half hour! But there is a certain class of guy, perhaps they are most prevalent in Alberta, that watch it religiously as a defining part of their manhood.. well, if you've watched UFC I'm sure you've seen these guys too!

I remember seeing a show on the playboy channel (hey, it was free in my hotel room! score!) that spent a half hour talking about "Asian" porn and why american guys have Asian fetishes. It is another one of those things about porn that commodifies women and puts them into pre-defined, consumable categories. It sucks, the idea of porn I think is pretty awesome, and in concept I am very pro-porn because it can be fun and also a good outlet for a person's sexual desires when a willing partner is not around. but unfortunately the reality is pretty bad, and it seems to me, constantly getting worse as people try to out-do eachother and be wilder and kinkier. If only they would focus on actually being sexier. *sigh*

KW, I can't believe some of the stuff out there either, and my boyfriend teases me for always having my safe-search on, but I hate when I stumble across it when all I wanted was to look up this years hairstyles! as much of an open mind as I try to have, the fact that people find stuff like that funny does seem to me like a sure sign of the coming apocalypse.

But anyways, what my point was, somewhere back there, was that if porno is that messed up and that far away from reality, I don't think we smallies should take it personally that small boobs get stuck in the barely legal category, when the whole thing is usually pretty offensive to women in general.