[pixiedust]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot since joining in last week. So I guess I'll see if I can verbalize my beliefs. I grew up in chruch. First baptist, then Kenneth Hagin's church. I was really involved as a teenager. Then I got married. And we stopped going to church period. Mostly because of the amount of hypocrties, posers, and the heavily emotional dramas that were guarenteed to get you down on your knees bawling only to wake up the next moning to find nothing had changed. I've always been interested in other religions because I don't really think there is right and wrong religion and I tend to try to find the common denominators. So I have spent time talking to Mormons, Jahova'a witnesses, catholics, ect.
After my divorce a few years ago I was just kind of gliding through life without any real purpose. I was struggling with depression, having a hard time getting/keeping a job and I was so miserable I couldn't stand myself.
Then my friend kept bugging me to go to her church with her. And just being back inside a church started making me feel better. I felt loved and accepted for the first time in a long time. I am still not an every service type of christian, but I know my life runs better and I feel better when I leave a place in it for God.
My relationship with him is personal and I go to church more for direction and teaching. My pastor is great at explaining things in ways I had never considered before and things makes lot more sense to me after he discusses them.
Like konfusion andsprinkles i have had experiences where I felt God in a very real and almost physical sense.

[konphusion26]

SPRINKLES, my friend!!!! Hey sweetie! I'm glad that you decided to pop in here. Its been an interesting discussion. Those ladies are quite the eloquent writers aren't they??? I admit some of the ladies in here have intimidated me a lil bit LOLLLL I had to break out the dictionary a few times lol but I'm glad that you have found your truth girl!! It is my prayer that someone will benefit from something I've said. I want to reach at least 1 person for God... then i'll feel like I'm fulfilling my purpose. I'll keep you in my prayers as well Sprinkles for many reasons. Stand firm!

~With love, your sister in Christ!~

[SpRiNkLeS]

Hi Konphusion! Hey girlie, how’s everything?! As you know I’m partial to another thread BUT I decided to check out this one tonight since I can’t sleep and I must say after reading back a few pages I think you have a great wisdom with your choice of words. I was raised Christian but did not ever feel a connection until I attended a Harvest Crusade with my ex last year. I had been struggling getting off of drugs and just being a young new mom, and that night just really changed my life and I finally accepted Christ as my Savior. Anyway before I ramble on I just wanted to say that your posts really moved me. Especially your Jan. 17 post, I actually shed a few tears when reading. That is EXACTLY how I feel except I am horrible with words and expressing my religion for fear of explaining it wrong. But thankyou for all your posts and keep posting them!! You make me wanna share too.

So anyway ladies, I thought maybe I could join in and give my two cents although I know it will not be popular. I find it very interesting to read what everyone here believes. I think BECAUSE my whole life I was raised to believe in our Lord God I have always been so curious why atheists don’t believe in God or any being. I’ve had quite a few Mormon friends through school so I got to understand their POV but I have truly always been curious why other people believe what they believe just as I assume they must be curious why the heck I believe the way that I do. I guess I was a bit sheltered when it came to religions because I didn't even know about other religions existing, such as Agnostic. Knowledge is very powerful and I am trying to learn more everyday. I try to be courteous whenever I discuss politics so I figure the same kinda goes here.

Minx and Girltrouble, geeesh you both must have aced English classes all through school. You both could seriously write articles for newspapers, magazines, etc. Nice writing skills!

The reason why I truly believe in God is more along the lines of what Konphusion was saying. I FEEL His presence with me and no I did not always, especially when I was being shoved His Word down my throat everyday when I was younger. Oh and my dad’s preaching…………..gosh I remember when I was a teen I would seriously cringe when I had to listen to the hour long lectures. But it really is a choice and it wasn’t until I was actually searching out for something deeper that I felt a connection. At first it was so weird, I mean those fine hairs on the back of your neck, the fine hairs on your arms……………like they would be standing up because I felt like there was more than just me at that moment. All alone in my room with just my ex smoking bowl after bowl……….I wanted more but I just couldn’t explain what I wanted. I wanted to FEEL something but I couldn’t explain it. I was so numb. Then that one night I attended the Harvest Crusade and for me it was the first night of the beginning of my life. That night I felt so damn alive and it was the most amazing feeling I have ever experienced. And now when I read God’s Word (the Bible) I feel such complete joy and this overwhelming rush of the greatest love ever. It sounds goofy but kinda like as if my heart is being squeezed but in a good way. Like a million hugs and you just wanna go to everyone you know and tell them all about it.

When I was younger I was embarrassed to admit I was a Christian because it wasn’t “cool”. Now I am ashamed that I was ever embarrassed, although I wasn’t REALLY a Christian because I wasn’t born-again yet and it wasn’t really my choice back then. I now understand that you should never be ashamed to talk about what you believe in or how you feel. If you truly feel that way, why not let someone else in? That is what makes the world go ‘round and in the process you might just help out someone more than you know. AND it is really awesome that we can all talk about this and not hate on anybody just because we all feel differently. I love discussions!

[crazyoldcatlady]

this whole discussion just reminds me of Dogma (best. movie. evah.)



the good starts around ~ 3:50

"Do it - Do it and I'll fuckin' spank you.

mwuahhaah!

side note

[roseviolet]

Minx, who knew a death rattle could sound so ... synthesized?

I just wanted to pop in and say that I'm really enjoying the discussion goin on in this thread. Maybe I'll try to express my own feelings about religion later, but for now I love hearing all of these different perspectives & experiences.

[candycane_girl]

I just wanted to come in here and give my two cents. I believe in a god, I don't know what it is and I think that it is too big to be defined by gender. But I don't like the idea of believing in god because you don't want to get in trouble for not believing in god. I believe in a god just because I do, not because I'm afraid of not getting into heaven or something.

GT, I agree about the morality and Christianity thing being insulting. I guess I've been kind of lucky because I have parents who come from two very different religions (mom is Anglican, dad is Sikh). It has given me a wider viewpoint about religion and god. However, I don't see why I couldn't just believe in both. I always get the feeling from a lot of people that it's like, you have to believe in one religion and that's it. But I find certain aspects of many religions to be helpful and I think that they were all created by god anyway so there's nothing wrong in believing in all of them.

[girltrouble]

while i agree with most of what you said, minx, i always find it baffling when people reject the entire concept of faith since we take so much on faith, starting with the most obvious: money. that is a faith that a piece of paper is worth more that the paper it's written on.


i came in here because i am constantly being prostheletized to at work. although i frighten most of them. i used to be a holy roller growing up, and i've experienced everything from catholicism to the evangelical/charismatic, and i was obsessed with prophecy as a kid-- the end result is that i find holes in every single argument thrown my way. i don't do it to be rude, and i am very polite in voicing my rejection, i've just believed most of those things, but then found the flaws, or atleast a different conception of a god(ess) that i could love.

like i said, i agree with you minx, pascal's wager always seemed not like belief, but fear, and the prefered pray'er plan (i.e. god loves me better than you) always seemed to invite xtians looking down on people. and i could never reconcile if god wanted us to have free choice or, if as the good book said, it's all been preordained. those two things are contradictions. if it's fated, then we don't really have much say, do we?

and i find the whole you-can't-be-moral-unless-you-have-jesus point of view insulting. and as i told the co-worker who said that, xtianity and morality aren't mutually exclusive. after all gary ridgeway, and the btk killer were both pillars in their churches. xtians can be evil, atheists can be very good.

i think of myself as an agnostic, i think there is an essence in all living beings, but they don't intercede in our lives, if anything they are, by all evidence, neutral. i doubt if there is anything more than some sort of collective essence of life, near as i can tell. there may be a god(ess), and infact i would bet that god is a she since creation is an act of giving birth, is it not?

just my take.

[minx]

I don't agree with them picketing the man's funeral. Stories like that make me as a Christian cringe. Don't let fanatics/extremists deter you from God hunny. Because when its all said and done, you and I will be held responsible for our belief or disbelief in Him. I'd much rather believe He is real now and find out otherwise later than to NOT believe and find out that God is real and has been real the whole time. Just something to think about.

This is called "Pascal's Wager". Check it out on Wiki, or in Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion". Interesting stuff.

If deconstructed, Pascal's Wager is nothing more than covering your bets. It seems, actually, that going this route isn't even really "faith"...it's not wanting to be wrong, or acting in a way as though to avoid punishment. Since g*d ain't my Big Daddy, I'm not really concerned about an eternal spanking, but were somebody to be seriously defining the reasons why they believe, this argument would be the most hollow one available. No offense; it's just a really weak argument...the kind I heard in junior high when I was faced with a born-again thingie that I won't go into here.

I don't know that there are any arguments that would persuade an atheist. Faith is one of the most bizarre concepts I have ever heard of, to be completely honest. For everything else in the universe, we demand the burden of proof (thank you, ye founders of The Enlightenment, who got us out of germs, witch-hunts, and most theocratic monarchies). Yet we rely on faulty documents put together by power-hungry Catholic men, mistranslated over several hundreds of years, and some of which so far from the actual events as to be a game of "telephone".

My BFF is a total goddess-worshiper; it works for her and is about as personal and private as it gets. I don't get it, but it makes her happy. I cannot be content with notions that there is an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent g*d out there who only helps a select few...or those (as my mother would say) "who pray the right way". Eep. It just doesn't smack of love for humanity, or desire for a relationship. If that's a relationship, then it looks dysfunctional to me...and the whole "humans have a choice" thing doesn't really do right by me either, because I want to know what child in Nepal or South America made the choice to be born into poverty and die from lack of proper medical care.

And per the whole "rejecting the less savory texts in the bible", wasn't it Jesus who supposedly said he brought with him a new covenant? It would seem that he was sweeping away the stuff in the Old Testament (the fire and brimstone angry g*d) for the New and Improved Nicer g*d? Just wondering...

Personally, I'm content being a good person and working for the betterment of humanity. Once I bite it, game over.

*exits with a Ms. Pacman death sound*

[konphusion26]

SORRY FOR BEING A THREAD HOG LADIES!!! LOL I'm very passionate about faith, obviously right?

For myself, my family (some of them anyway) and my friends... we like to think of our faith as a personal RELATIONSHIP with God rather than "religion". To me religion signifies all these traditions and things that people have put into place. While those are okay, I prefer to have a closer relationship with my Creator that loves me as His own child than just some idea of an impersonal God that only holds us to strict rules and "doctrines". You know?? I truly believe that God wants to be close to us, but He doesn't force Himself on anyone. It is a choice to accept Him/His love or reject it.

[tankgirl]

its refreshing to see people comfortable with talking about their religion or lack there of. I myself am "spiritual but not religious" and have a hard time connecting with people's religious beliefs because I was raised in an atheist home. In fact, if I ever found religion my dad would probably try to disown me but thats another story. I don't think I will ever be into religion but I really respect people who can believe in God and not be a stereotypical, at the risk of sounding like an asshole, bigot.

[pixiedust]

I totally agree. I just joined a new church and it's really awesome. They are non denominational and they really emphasize inclusion and accepting all people. They are really frank and honest and will tell that if you meet the pastor in Wal Mart, he's gonna be the same guy you talk to one Sunday morning. There is no put ons or fakeness! It's so different from any other church I've ever been to. And yet, the pastor started out baptist, so there is a sound doctrin for foundation.

[konphusion26]

Konfusion, I'm glad to see someone in here that is able to expess your christian faith so openly and easily. I've tried before and made a real muck of things, so I tend to stay out of religious discussions in here...

But I did want to say something about what Pepper mentioned about not eating meat. I know in most of the churches I have gone to...and I've been to many different denominations....there is a common belief that when Jesus was crucified in the New Testament, he took the place of the old testament sacrifices and made a new covenant with us. Some of the Old Testament laws like eating meat and ritual sacrifices didn't carry over to the new covenant.

I'm sorry I can't quote scripture and verse, but that's always the way it's been explained to me.

Same with me Pixie! Thats the way I've been taught too. But I wasnt going to get into that discussion for fear of explaining it wrong. LOL We should chat sometimes!

Its not really easy for me to discuss my faith to people who don't believe the same things I believe lol but by grace its getting easier. I don't know who may be out there that needs to hear what has been put in me to share. I just hope that what I have said touches someone for God whether i make a fool out of myself or not LOL I guess my goal is to show everyone that not all Christians are the same and to embrace everyone. Not all of us are judgemental hipocrits (sp?) -- and yes there are alot of those out there that have put a bad taste in the spiritual mouths of our fellow man/woman who need the Word.

[pixiedust]

Konfusion, I'm glad to see someone in here that is able to expess your christian faith so openly and easily. I've tried before and made a real muck of things, so I tend to stay out of religious discussions in here...

But I did want to say something about what Pepper mentioned about not eating meat. I know in most of the churches I have gone to...and I've been to many different denominations....there is a common belief that when Jesus was crucified in the New Testament, he took the place of the old testament sacrifices and made a new covenant with us. Some of the Old Testament laws like eating meat and ritual sacrifices didn't carry over to the new covenant.

I'm sorry I can't quote scripture and verse, but that's always the way it's been explained to me.

[kittenb]

Thanks Polly. The look on Phelps face when the Sodommobile pulled up just made my day.

[beck]

i thought they lost that lawsuit and were gonna be bankrupted and not be able to do that stuff anymore?

[pollystyrene]

Fred Phelps speaks for no god that I can think of. He only speaks for his own depraved and corrupt paranoia. I wish he would just die.

It's going to be interesting when he does die....I just hope what has gone around comes back to bite him in the ass.

Did anyone ever see the episode of The Awful Truth, Michael Moore's TV show that was on Bravo, when they did the Sodomobile episode? I found a clip of the segment here.

God, I hope the Sodomobile pays his funeral a visit!

[nickclick]

isn't is sacreligious for a preacher or whatever he is to DECIDE who and who doesn't go to heaven or hell? why don't other churches protest HIM?

self-rightousness. that should get you into hell.

[konphusion26]

I just found this crazy article about a Baptist church which plans on picketing Heath Ledgers funeral because he played a gay character in Brokeback Mountain: Heath Ledger is now in Hell

I just can't believe it!! It is these kinds of religous nuts who make it hard for me to believe in a God...

I don't agree with them picketing the man's funeral. Stories like that make me as a Christian cringe. Don't let fanatics/extremists deter you from God hunny. Because when its all said and done, you and I will be held responsible for our belief or disbelief in Him. I'd much rather believe He is real now and find out otherwise later than to NOT believe and find out that God is real and has been real the whole time. Just something to think about.

[kittenb]

There is no more dangerous place than between Fuckhead Fred Phelps and a news camera. His church (which is mostly made up of his family) is always doing that sort of thing. The fact that they protest the funerals of American soldiers upsets me more than this story b/c it is likely that Heath Leger's family will be able to afford scary enough security that he can do little harm.

Fred Phelps speaks for no god that I can think of. He only speaks for his own depraved and corrupt paranoia. I wish he would just die.

[yess]

I just found this crazy article about a Baptist church which plans on picketing Heath Ledgers funeral because he played a gay character in Brokeback Mountain: Heath Ledger is now in Hell

I just can't believe it!! It is these kinds of religous nuts who make it hard for me to believe in a God...