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> Too Much Religion For Me To Handle
auralpoison
post Nov 10 2009, 11:58 AM
Post #21


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Religion I let fly, racism or homophobia I will jump on with a quickness (I am biracial & queer friendly, dontcha know!). I have an ignorant great aunt that I can literally clock as saying something racist to me in under seven minutes of walking in the door. She still uses the term "coloured" for fuck's sake. She gives me the "no offense, but . . . ". No buts. If you think you're going to offend me then shut it. And my mother's boyfriend, my mother's boyfriend is a total homophobe & he doesn't care who knows it. One of the last times I saw him, he got a few drinks in him & started in on it. I just looked at him & said very loudly, "You're a homophobe. I got it. Now shut the fuck up." He looked at me like I'd slapped him, but I've never had to hear that shit again.

The born again aunt that smokes & drinks at my house is homophobe. I always call her on it. And it's weird because her teenage son? Makes my gaydar go batshit. That kid is gayer than Christmas. Eventually I am gonna share with him some cocksucking tips I got from my best gays. Ladies' mags always say "enthusiasm" is your best bet, I call bullshit, the gay boys have taught me how to suck it like I have one.


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koffeewitch
post Nov 10 2009, 11:06 AM
Post #22


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angie21: ah yes, the racism. In my family get togethers that happens, too. Even more annoying (in my opinion) than out-right honest racism, it's the insidious white-guilt brand of racism. The "I'm not prejudice BUT..." brand of racism. The "I don't see color" and "They/"them/those people" sort of racism.
A few years ago I was studying Arabic. I was also living in my in-laws house and you would have thought that I was a traitior of some sort. They HATED the fact that I was learning anything about Arab and Muslim culture. Constantly I had to hear that Muslims are incapable of rational thought (they invented algebra and chemistry) or civil behavior (Muslim women could own property, keep their own money after marriage, and inherit family wealth SEVEN HUNDRED YEARS AGO. Western women just got these right in the 20th century. Most Muslim countries have also had women prime ministers/presidents). I am not a Muslim, but I recognize that in many ways the prophet Muhammed could be seen as a feminist (especially for his time/place).

Anyway, atleast the racism is more likely something that gets spread about when I am out of the room. The religion is a constant struggle on "religious holidays", especially. (Sigh). Like Aural Poison said, I am out-numbered so I keep my pie-hole shut. Mr. koffeewitch hates it, too. But they are his family (by blood). He can be rude to them; I (the "in-law") feel the need to be polite. Besides when I have tried to spread a little enlightenment around the room (about racism) they just don't GET it. I keep repeating their words to them thinking they MUST see the implicit bias /prejudice that their choice of words and the underlying attitudes that these words reveal. It almost never works.


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culturehandy
post Nov 10 2009, 10:23 AM
Post #23


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Are you trying to piss us off?

ETA: Well that troll was gone quickly.


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jsmith
post Nov 7 2009, 09:41 PM
Post #24


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Truth has Vagina Envy.
And doesn't even understand what people are saying. What a dunce.


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Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are serviley crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blind faith. Thomas Jefferson
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Aithinne
post Nov 7 2009, 08:48 PM
Post #25


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Me and Satan are having a wild orgy tonight. Everyone is invited.

This is just too much fun.
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Aithinne
post Nov 7 2009, 08:39 PM
Post #26


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My study abroad in college was in New Zealand- I went partly for the gorgeous scenery and partly because I was losing my mind with hypocritical bigoted religious American culture.

If anyone wants a few belly laughs, watch the great George Carlin in his Religion is Bullshit skit... RIP George Carlin!

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angie_21
post Nov 7 2009, 08:26 PM
Post #27


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hey koffeewitch, I am so glad I've only rarely had to deal with those kinds of things. I do have a similar problem in that with a small portion of my sweetie's family, you're guaranteed to have to sit thru some kind of racist conversation during the evening. Arguing with them will only make the conversation last longer, so you have to sit still and shut up if you want the conversation to move back to something tolerable. ooohh I hate it, and I imagine that's exactly what it's like with the religion thing. You're always trying to completely avoid any topic that might eventually lead to the topic of ethnic differences (or religion) and you end yp feeling not at all yourself the whole night, when all you want to do is yell at them how dumb and closed-minded they're being! Usually he will say something to make them shut up or change the conversation, and he has much more power in the situaiton because it's his family. Have you talked much with the Mr. about how to deal with it as a couple, and where your boundaries are that you will need him to step in, change the topic, or find an excuse to take you out of the room?
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koffeewitch
post Nov 7 2009, 03:30 PM
Post #28


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Already reported to moderator.


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koffeewitch
post Nov 7 2009, 11:26 AM
Post #29


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QUOTE(auralpoison @ Nov 7 2009, 12:45 PM) *
Nevermind that most biblical scholars place the birth of Christ nowhere near Dec 25, but that it stands as such because it's close to the pagan winter solstice & it was easier to convert the pagans if the holidays were still kinda close.


Yes, I like to think of Xmas as when the birth of the Sun became the birth of the Son.
Have you guys heard the Dar Williams song "Christians and the Pagans". How does the chorus go? The CHristians and the pagans both sat down at the table; They celebrated their holidays the best that they were able"... er, something kinda like that. She put it much, much better. Her songs are a feast of snarky feminist delight. She writes what some people call "vagina music"; but vagina music is great stuff in my book.


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auralpoison
post Nov 7 2009, 10:45 AM
Post #30


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QUOTE(koffeewitch @ Nov 7 2009, 09:29 AM) *
I just don't get why it's always us watching our Ps and Qs lest we offend THEM.


Because I am the lone dissident. It is a bare minimum of five against one. If I stood up, I'd be the one bad apple that spoilt everyone else's holiday by not believing that Jesus is the reason for the season. Nevermind that most biblical scholars place the birth of Christ nowhere near Dec 25, but that it stands as such because it's close to the pagan winter solstice & it was easier to convert the pagans if the holidays were still kinda close.


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koffeewitch
post Nov 7 2009, 08:29 AM
Post #31


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I love everybody's comments; thank you all for the feedback. Aural: You really hit it right on: We are not able to change one another's minds (and it's a free country; I don't WANT to change their minds). I just don't get why it's always us watching our Ps and Qs lest we offend THEM. Surely they KNOW they are pissing us off when they talk about certain subjects. I do my damn best not to upset them (they are family, after all). I'm sure I've slipped up; but it has always been by accident.

AbleDanger: Your boyfriend wants you to convert? It goes without saying that this is a very personal decision that only you can make...but if it really is NOT your cup of tea, I would move on. I did convert one pretty hard-core fanatic to my way of thinking simply by taking him to the library and exposing him to some research. He was open-minded enough to read several books that opened his eyes. (I'm sure all the trolls who come here to spy on us are furious right now. GO AWAY. GET YOUR OWN FORUM. They do have Jesus forums, you guys know that, right)??


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auralpoison
post Nov 7 2009, 04:59 AM
Post #32


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This is one of the few arenas in life where I just grin & bear it. My father's whole family (The only blood I have.) are all born again nutjobs. Out of respect & because I am out-fucking-numbered, I keep my piehole shut on all things religious. I feel bad about it, but it's hard enough keeping myself from swearing or taking the lord's name in vain or keeping to "safe" topics that it's too hard to muster the energy to defend myself as an atheist. And last year they had one of those free DVDs about homosexuality & marriage right there on the coffee table . . . I wanted to chew my own tongue off every time I saw the goddamned thing, enough so that I hid it under a stack of Ebony mags so I didn't have to see it. I constantly want to call them out for their hypocrisy & haterism, but what can I do? Nothing I can say is gonna change their minds anymore than anything they say is gonna change mine.

It's funny, though. My house? Is considered a holiday "safe haven" for most of my adult aunts & uncles & my cousins. They come over here to have a drink, smoke a fucking bowl, & I let my auntie smoke cigarettes in the house instead of making her sit in her car. We listen to secular music & talk shit. Apparently sinners are okay when they let your let you hair down.


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jsmith
post Nov 6 2009, 10:26 PM
Post #33


It's Calamity Jenn
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Yeah, I often have to listen to religious posturing. Within my own family. I'm the one and only non-christian. When someone goes off on a religious tangent, I just try to tune it out. There are some things that I'll engage them on, things pertaining to women, the "fate" of non-christians, and homosexuality being a few. You're dead on about how some of them think it's okay to push their offensive views on you, but are all like NUH-UH when you turn the tables. And they don't even KNOW that they're being incredibly hypocritical, since they're so convinced of their own righteousness.
If I were you, I'd just come out and demand some respect. To hell with any consequences that may arise, such as your bf getting miffed at you. You deserve respect, you're a human being like the rest of 'em. Tell them to lay off the bible-banging "Indoctrinate Your Kids While They're Young and Impressionable" books. If that doesn't work, give them some spell books biggrin.gif or something like that. Maybe a nice pentacle necklace tongue.gif
And I'm adding "Sweet Tap Dancing Jesus!" to my repertoire of funny/offense exclamations. That's hilarious tongue.gif


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Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are serviley crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blind faith. Thomas Jefferson
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AbleDanger
post Nov 6 2009, 08:14 PM
Post #34


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I deal by engaging in huge rants about Revelations because it fits so closely to my obsession with the new world order and I can get my bf's dad going on it for hours. Then I count down the hours till I can go home and get stoned and try and rid myself of all the fear that I'm going to burn in hell, despite not believing in it, but for some reason I take it all in when I'm there. I still haven't figured out how to leave their house and not feel completely gross and negative. And my bf wants me to convert???? wtf! Anyways, maybe that's a rant for another thread, that definitely will include a wtf did we get back together piece. Sorry about the bitterness. But yeah, mostly I just try and enjoy the fanaticism because it gets me good things to laugh about later.
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koffeewitch
post Nov 6 2009, 12:56 PM
Post #35


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I guess I'm out to resurrect some dead threads today...I hope nobody minds.

My issue is this: The holidays are coming up, of course. I don't really talk to my own family of origin...but I can't escape spending time with Mr. Koffeewitch's family. Who are all fanatical born-again Christians. Hours upon hours of time when I have to constantly remind myself not to say things like "oh, God" because the fanatics find it offensive. (To say nothing of cutting down on my usual epithets, such as JesusBloodyFuckingChrist or "Sweet Tap Dancing Jesus"). I can also plan on getting books about raising children from a Christian perspective or even (yet another) Bible translation for modern times. I will be heavily out-numbered, so I get to keep most of my radical, pinko, Goddess-loving comments to myself. I try to keep to safe topics (my sister-in-law is also pro-midwife, natural birth and breast-feeding). Like me. But still, it's hard. ANd the gifts! I don't get them books/gifts that are going to offend THEM, like "How to Raise Non-Homophobic Children". I do recognize that they have the right to raise their kids to see gays as sinners. I could not disagree more...but this is their right. And the rest of the family are even more intolerable with overly personal questions, inappropriate comments, judgements, etc. I get to listen (quietly) in on conversations about how the nation is going "to Hell" (literally) and how we can't even post the 10 Commandments in public schools, blah, blah, fuckitty, blah.

Surely other Busties deal with this, too? How do you guys cope??


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angie_21
post Feb 25 2009, 04:12 PM
Post #36


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jsmith - I mourn when people I am close to move away, because I know that even when we keep in touch, we will no longer be able to spend important time together. I also cry when my boyfriend leaves on a 3 week shift for work! I know I will see him again, but I am still sad. btw, I say this as an atheist, so I can't really speak for those who do believe in heaven.
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culturehandy
post Feb 2 2009, 02:27 PM
Post #37


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What a perceptive answer.

*troll*


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Nadia
post Feb 2 2009, 01:24 PM
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Religion is important.


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stargazer
post Jan 26 2009, 02:33 PM
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when i think of mourning and being a spiritual woman (which is how i perceived and believe myself to be), i cry because i miss the person in their physical form. what they meant to me in the here and now. my own expectations and reality that life, at least on earth, is not forever. the vulnerability and ending of human life. how do i express these feelings? i cry. rationalizing my behavior and the afterlife does not negate the fact that i miss that person.


QUOTE(nohope @ Jan 26 2009, 01:43 PM) *
I find this very problematic. It supposes that ones thoughts represent a reality rather than a narrative created threw the process of selective memories, memory magnification, memory reinterpretation and even memory creation out of whole clothe.

I would be more inclined to say that we morn because we get focused on the gap between reality and our expectations and that causes us some cognitive dissonance.

So in some sense I guess one could say that the after life is invented as an escape mechanism for the same reason that we morn. The idea of an after life gives us an opportunity to fix workout the divide between our expectation and reality. And the great part is that in almost every after life scenario, and I'm including reincarnation here, the basic idea is that you have eternity to do so. which is fortunate, cause given the law of averages, in a long enough time line anything is possible at lest once.


nohope, i read your post. it makes sense. then again, it is a logic built on your values and the values of science which are complicated because these laws were created by a White, male dominant society. conscious reality and narratives are tough to prove scientifically because it is difficult to assess the direct and indirect impact of one's faith on their development and belief system, whether you are atheist or religious. it is one of the things i'm studying right now in my research. logistically, we know that a person's belief system influences their behavior, BUT is it the direct impact of that belief system or has things changed because of behavioral activation.

the afterlife thing is tough to prove even with the law of average point of view cause...well, no one has done research while dead. i guess this is where faith comes in.


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nohope
post Jan 26 2009, 12:43 PM
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QUOTE(roseviolet @ Jan 26 2009, 04:18 PM) *
JSmith, it's because they will miss having that person in their life. If a loved one dies - even if they believe they'll be reunited in the afterlife - they still don't know when that will be. It could be decades.

Just think of the people who you love in your life. Think of all of the things you did with them, the times you've laughed and cried together. Now imagine if they hadn't been a part of your life for the past decade. It would have a huge impact on you, wouldn't it. So basically, they mourn deceased loved ones for the same reason you probably do: because they'll miss their presence & influence in their lives.


I find this very problematic. It supposes that ones thoughts represent a reality rather than a narrative created threw the process of selective memories, memory magnification, memory reinterpretation and even memory creation out of whole clothe.

I would be more inclined to say that we morn because we get focused on the gap between reality and our expectations and that causes us some cognitive dissonance.

So in some sense I guess one could say that the after life is invented as an escape mechanism for the same reason that we morn. The idea of an after life gives us an opportunity to fix workout the divide between our expectation and reality. And the great part is that in almost every after life scenario, and I'm including reincarnation here, the basic idea is that you have eternity to do so. which is fortunate, cause given the law of averages, in a long enough time line anything is possible at lest once.

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