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> Bacterial Vaginosis--or--embarrassing bad smell
CanCan
post Apr 13 2008, 05:39 PM
Post #1741


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QUOTE(lori @ Apr 12 2008, 05:25 PM) *
Some ladies in here have found boric acid to relieve their BV symptoms, but no one so far has found it to be a cure. I've done research on boric acid and BV, and have yet to find anything that supports its use for BV.

Who said anything about Boric Acid being a cure. And who said Sylk lubricant was a cure? I know I didn't, and I'm sure no one else here did either. I am a proponent of Femdophilus, I think it is the best probiotic for women out there yet, and I think it is a cure if taken properly and with the correct combination of other precautions taken at the same time; but it is not a cure for everyone, because if it was, we wouldn't be sitting here talking to each other about BV. Some of us have taken Femdophilus for months and still have bv. I believe that it is part of the equation, probably the most important part, but like many illnesses, a combination of things may have to be done at the same time to bring the body back into equilibrium first - so that the Reuteri and Rhamnosus can thrive and do their job. So in my opinion, a few things that must be done at the same time:

correct the vaginal ph (make it slightly more acidic)
eliminate the pathogenic bacteria in your vagina
eliminate the pathogenic bacteria residing in your intestinal tract
introduce the correct bacteria into your vagina (femdophilus)
maintain normal vaginal moisture levels
use a (slightly acidic) lubricant during sex if you have dryness issues

Millions of women get BV worldwide, and believe that it was one thing or one occurance that gave it to them.. but I believe that that one thing was just the last straw. I will guess that it was a combination of factors that gave them the infection. And if it was a combination of things that set the stage to give you an infection, is it so unreasonable to think that maybe a combination of things may have to be done to get it back to normal health?
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tabby
post Apr 13 2008, 02:26 PM
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QUOTE(kinkaju @ Apr 9 2008, 11:29 PM) *
I was taking a probiotic called Reuteri a few years ago when I was having recurring yeast issues. I found it in the refrigerated section of Mrs. Green's Natural Market, near where I live. In fact, I saw the same exact kind just last week when I went into that store.

This is the one I took: http://www.potentherbs.com/shop/reuteri-naturesway.html


Thank you very much!
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tabby
post Apr 13 2008, 02:20 PM
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QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 10 2008, 12:01 AM) *
This was my story for about a year. What FINALLY helped me was figuring out (in tandem with my late gyn) that the burning was caused by a yeast infection comprised of non-Albicans Candida. The species I was infected with are very resistant to most all yeast-infection medications, even Diflucan. What finally helped was stearing clear of Flagyl (which encourages yeast growth) and using boric acid vaginally, then re-populating the vagina with the correct strains of Lactobacilli. This was before Fem-Dophilus was available in the USA. It was called Ombe in Europe. I had to get friends who lived in Austria to buy it for me & mail it to me. But that one-two punch did the trick. My gyn had a compounding pharmacy make up 300-mg. capsules of boric acid to use once every night for two weeks, vaginally. (Most "recipes" say to use 600-mg. to fill a capsule, but my gyn agreed that the "European method" of just using 300-mg. should work fine.) A pantyliner is necessary when using boric acid, since it drips out over time.
I was afraid of putting something with the name ACID into my already burning-with-fire vagina, but it actually felt soothing as it dissolved/melted in there.


(sorry I'm late responding!)

Thanks Maggie!

After reading this, I'm inspired to give the boric acid a try. You put it exactly how I feel. Putting something named "acid" into something on fire makes me want to run. I ordered FemDophilus, and looking forward to giving this a try. I'm starting to believe that I too must have a yeast that will not respond to anything allopathic or natural I have tried. I'm sort of hoping this might be my magic bullet, yet I'm cautious about being hopeful when all else has failed. When I look in the cabinet, with all of the things I have bought I should open my own pharmacy lol.
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sooo sad
post Apr 12 2008, 09:06 PM
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hi sprinkles...
thanks for your welcome...hopefully we all can help each other overcome this darn thing!!!
sooo sad
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lori
post Apr 12 2008, 05:23 PM
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QUOTE(sciongal @ Apr 12 2008, 04:18 PM) *
wow...actually as a matter of fact , I HAVE been reading this post since last year and I do remember the back and forth...it got quite ugly...so as I do not choose to get into another condescending match with anyone, I will just keep my comments to my self and wish you all the absolute best in overcoming this condition. Peace...

For the record, I just want to say that I NEVER engaged in the ugliness. I never called anyone names or picked fights with anyone. When things got out of hand, I just removed myself from the situation.

I think some people get a little too invested in what works for them, and take offense when others question it. If your method really works, it will stand up to scrutiny. I'm not here to knock anyone's ideas, I just think it should be backed up with research.


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lori
post Apr 12 2008, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 12 2008, 04:12 PM) *
Yes, my problem was repeated episodes of BV interspersed with non-Albicans yeast infections. It was the latter that caused the BURNING, which was what I was asked about. My gynecologists (two of them in fact) suggested that to stop the cycle, boric acid was the way to go. Since using it, and, granted, several other things like Estrace cream, SYLK, Fem-Dophilus and tea tree oil suppositories, I have never experienced either BV or yeast infections in over 18 months. But boric acid was the initial and main treatment that got me on the road to health.

So basically, you don't know if boric acid contributed to curing your BV at all.

I think you should make that very clear - which is the only point I was ever making. You've conflated BV and yeast, and obviously, it's led to confusion.

QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 12 2008, 04:12 PM) *
If you don't like boric acid or the acidifying-the-vagina methodology, that is entirely your right, as it is mine (and my gynecologists') to advocate it.

If you're going to "advocate" a treatment, I think you should have very good reasons for why you are urging people to use your methods, beyond merely suggesting it. And I, or anyone, can ask about the research behind your methods. You don't have to provide the research, but I can ask you about it.

And I explained my reasons for objecting to your claiming Sylk works as a preventative, for which there is no basis. Obviously some women are thinking of buying it based on your recommendation, and I think you've led them to expect more from it than they will get. Again, I think it's my right to ask you why you said that.

You don't have to answer (and you apparently won't), but I can still ask.


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sciongal
post Apr 12 2008, 05:01 PM
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wow...actually as a matter of fact , I HAVE been reading this post since last year and I do remember the back and forth...it got quite ugly...so as I do not choose to get into another condescending match with anyone, I will just keep my comments to my self and wish you all the absolute best in overcoming this condition. Peace...
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mfc10
post Apr 12 2008, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE(lori @ Apr 12 2008, 04:25 PM) *
But your problem wasn't BV. As you said yourself, it was a persistent yeast infection (which boric acid *is* a known cure for).


Yes, my problem was repeated episodes of BV interspersed with non-Albicans yeast infections. It was the latter that caused the BURNING, which was what I was asked about. My gynecologists (two of them in fact) suggested that to stop the cycle, boric acid was the way to go. Since using it, and, granted, several other things like Estrace cream, SYLK, Fem-Dophilus and tea tree oil suppositories, I have never experienced either BV or yeast infections in over 18 months. But boric acid was the initial and main treatment that got me on the road to health.

If you don't like boric acid or the acidifying-the-vagina methodology, that is entirely your right, as it is mine (and my gynecologists') to advocate it.

Peace out.
Maggie
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lori
post Apr 12 2008, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE(sciongal @ Apr 12 2008, 01:54 PM) *
no offense, but I thought this was a forum for EVERYONE to discuss what does and does not work for them ...individually.... as different as all of our bodies are, there may or may not be methods that work well for each of us.

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

I'm sorry to be such a killjoy, but as I explained recently, this thread, from its inception, is a long, sad chronicle of "bad product pussy explosions." Ladies getting excited about some crackpot product (jamu stick!), everyone shoving it up their bajingos, and everyone suffering from burns a week later. Not to mention the time and money wasted. It's practically tragic.

And not to toot my own horn, but I think more ladies have felt better and improved their health by reading my blog and following my suggestions, than they have in the history of the thread. And did that happen because I have some spectacular secret treatment? No. I just urge people to make informed decisions. I think people tend to kind of "jump on the bandwagon" in here, without fully knowing why or how something supposedly works.

So I don't think clearing up obvious misconceptions amounts to "not being supportive." My latest points are:

- manually acidifying the vagina alone does not accomplish cure/prevention
- hormonal-related vaginitis is not BV
- BV may cause potential pregnancy complications

Is sharing these facts a bad thing? I don't think so. I think everyone needs to know this. It's up to them what they do with the information. Do I have credibility? Does what I say make sense? It's up to every individual to make that judgment themselves. Just make the most informed judgment you can about what treatment to use.

And I'm also not saying people can't share what works for them. I'm just challenging everyone to back it up with some research. If you have a problem with that, then you know ... whatever. But I think I've contributed a lot to keeping people from setting their vaginas on fire. I may have stepped on a few toes along the way, but if you've been reading in this group since 3/2007, then you should know that I don't care about that.

Bottom line: if I think somebody is saying something that is wrong or misleading, and may lead to false hope and bad potentially harmful decisions, then I will speak up. I'm sorry I don't do that with hugs and kisses and tippy toes. People can digest the conflicting information and make their decision, or they can call me a cunt. Whatever. As long as the information is out there, that's all I care about.

--

*So again, to Maggie: I think when you say that SYLK is a BV preventative, and also when you say that it's the only lubricant with the right pH, you are being misleading. (For example, The V Book recommends Replens, and I think RePhresh even claims to lower your pH to a healthy level.) I think it's great that SYLK works for you. But obviously women will be ordering it because of what you said, expecting some great results, and being disappointed, because you are making claims about the product without support.

So I'm going to speak out about that. I'm sorry if that makes you unhappy. I don't have personal animosity towards you, and I think you're a valuable contributor to this thread. But I think you are making unsupported claims about a product, so ... yeah, well, there you go. I don't think you should do that. I just don't think applying SYLK (or any acidic solution) prevents BV. Feel free to prove me wrong anytime. (Come on, girl, you're a chemistry professor!)


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neverending
post Apr 12 2008, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE(SpRiNkLeS @ Apr 11 2008, 06:21 AM) *
Hey ladies!

Hmmm, so I haven’t checked in here in like a week. It’s been interesting reading what worked for some of you BV free gals, thanks for the tips. Anyway so last night I screwed up my life again. I kinda sorta ummmmmm, like you know……..made myself feel better. Ok so we’re all adults here. I masturbated. Well the point here is that now today I’m gettin ammonia whiffs. My body thinks I actually had sex!!! What the frick?!!!!! I didn’t even get to enjoy a live penis, what the hell!!!!!!!!!! I’m practicing celibacy, I have no time whatsoever for a boyfriend right now plus I want this shit gone completely before I get reacquainted with the penis. I’m getting all antsy now, I mean talk about wantin some man. I DREAM of a nice, throbbing penis. Seriously though a couple days ago I had floating penises throughout the dream!! It’s horrible I’m like all undressing guys with my eyes now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So they totally think I want it you know? Uugh. I so need some though, you know? I just don’t want the drama attached.

I guess it’s back to the old TTO again. When I woke up this morning I made an appointment with my new doctor because I want to switch up my BC again after getting some horror stories for the one I’m on. Also I need something better to take away my sex drive….celibacy ain’t easy. This time I’m asking for a metrogel prescription. I know, I know. I really shouldn’t but hey, I lasted as long as I could. It worked so well and long last time, the only reason why I feel my body didn’t get a chance to balance out the hormones is because I stopped taking BC AND also forgot to continue with the Acidophilus due to busy schedules. This time I want to give the Fem D another shot in addition to the Acidophilus, especially after all the success stories I just read. Only problem is the next available appointment is not for another month. WHAT! I want it NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really liked this new doctor the last time, I got in way sooner too. Oh and he gives me whatever prescriptions I want. He’s hella coooooooooooool!!!!!

So anyway keep up the suggestions, I went a little under budget last month so whoop! Whoop! I think I’ll go on a vitamin spree!!!

Oh yeah. I want to welcome all the newbies that I haven’t personally said Hi to yet: Sooo sad, Tabby, Damselindistress, Ladylyn. Hi girls!!! Welcome and never feel embarrassed to share, you just might be helping someone else. We all need as much info as we can get.


OMG! WTF? U are too funny! LMAO@ FLOATING PENISES------->PRICELESS!
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lori
post Apr 12 2008, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 12 2008, 12:34 PM) *
<<In women, anything that reduces the acidity (increases the pH) of the vagina increases the likelihood of infection. Acidity may be reduced by hormonal changes shortly before and during menstrual periods or during pregnancy. Frequent douching, use of spermicides, and semen can also reduce acidity.

Many bacteria normally reside in the vagina. One type, called lactobacilli, normally maintains the acidity of the vagina. By doing so, lactobacilli help keep the lining of the vagina healthy and prevent the growth of bacteria or yeasts that cause infections.>>

I don't think that disproves what I've said. I understand that it's the good bacteria that maintains the acidity of the vagina. I just think that the treatment should focus on increasing the good bacteria, rather than trying to manually acidify the vagina. It's definitely not a solution by itself.

QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 12 2008, 12:34 PM) *
Also, from "The V Book" by Dr. Elizabeth Stewart, director of the Stewart-Forbes Vulvovaginal Specialty Service at Harvard Vanguard Medical Associates:

<<"BV represents an imbalance of the bacteria that live in the vagina. The imbalance occurs because the vagina becomes less acidic, and without the acid it's like party time for the resident bacteria -- they have an orgy and overrun the place."

As you know, I cite The V Book a lot myself, and consider it to be a very reputable source. The vagina becomes less acidic - and the bad bacteria takes over - because the good bacteria goes down in number. This is information I got from The V Book itself. Do you disagree with that?

I don't believe that it says in the book anywhere that acid alone will cure/prevent BV. If that was the case, we should all be able to make BV go away by squirting vinegar up there every day.

QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 12 2008, 12:34 PM) *
I am just so glad I found --and am maintaining for over 18 months now--my vaginal health again via boric acid (among other things as mentioned previously) and SYLK.

But your problem wasn't BV. As you said yourself, it was a persistent yeast infection (which boric acid *is* a known cure for).

Some ladies in here have found boric acid to relieve their BV symptoms, but no one so far has found it to be a cure. I've done research on boric acid and BV, and have yet to find anything that supports its use for BV.

I agree that if anyone needs a lubricant, using one with the right pH is probably a better idea than using one that isn't. But I don't agree that SYLK, used like a treatment product as you suggest, can prevent BV. There is just no support for it. Can you provide any beyond anecdotal evidence?


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sciongal
post Apr 12 2008, 02:37 PM
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no offense, but I thought this was a forum for EVERYONE to discuss what does and does not work for them ...individually.... as different as all of our bodies are, there may or may not be methods that work well for each of us. I have read Maggie's postings and she seems excited and happy about what is working for her at this time... this is a tough condition to deal with, why can't we support each other instead of telling people basically, no, what you are doing does not work. Not trying to start a war here, honestly.
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mfc10
post Apr 12 2008, 01:17 PM
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[quote name='lori' date='Apr 12 2008, 01:14 PM' post='194998']
Maggie,

Sorry to put you on the spot, but I want to add a note to what I think is a misconception.

I don't think simply putting acidic solutions in the vagina does anything to "prevent" BV. Since the issue is a bacterial imbalance, I think the high-pH of the discharge is just a symptom. [quote]

Hi, Lori: I just go by what I read, by what my gynecologist told me, and by my education as a chemistry prof. For example, from the Merck Manual Web site, I submit the following:

<<In women, anything that reduces the acidity (increases the pH) of the vagina increases the likelihood of infection. Acidity may be reduced by hormonal changes shortly before and during menstrual periods or during pregnancy. Frequent douching, use of spermicides, and semen can also reduce acidity.

Many bacteria normally reside in the vagina. One type, called lactobacilli, normally maintains the acidity of the vagina. By doing so, lactobacilli help keep the lining of the vagina healthy and prevent the growth of bacteria or yeasts that cause infections.>>

Also, from "The V Book" by Dr. Elizabeth Stewart, director of the Stewart-Forbes Vulvovaginal Specialty Service at Harvard Vanguard Medical Associates:

<<"BV represents an imbalance of the bacteria that live in the vagina. The imbalance occurs because the vagina becomes less acidic, and without the acid it's like party time for the resident bacteria -- they have an orgy and overrun the place."

I am just so glad I found --and am maintaining for over 18 months now--my vaginal health again via boric acid (among other things as mentioned previously) and SYLK.

Respectfully submitted.
Maggie
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lori
post Apr 12 2008, 11:57 AM
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QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 11 2008, 09:04 PM) *
That seems most soothing and, at the same time, the pH is acidic enough to help prevent BV or most yeast infections.

Maggie,

Sorry to put you on the spot, but I want to add a note to what I think is a misconception.

I don't think simply putting acidic solutions in the vagina does anything to "prevent" BV. Since the issue is a bacterial imbalance, I think the high-pH of the discharge is just a symptom. I also don't believe that normal high-pH events (such as unprotected sex or getting your period) triggers BV, they simply trigger symptoms.

So I think simply working on acidifying the vagina is not the correct approach. I think this is why a product like RepHresh or boric acid doesn't work - for either treatment or prevention. At best, using Sylk probably doesn't hurt. But I think it's misleading to say that it prevents BV.

QUOTE(CanCan @ Apr 9 2008, 04:54 PM) *
Yes, I'm sure many BV cases are linked to imbalanced hormones.

I think this is another misconception. Vaginitis caused by hormonal imbalance is a completely different issue, and the treatment for it is different as well. We shouldn't conflate these categories.

And lastly, to the pregnant lady who thought pregnancy would clear up the BV because it cleared up her HPV in the past? Sorry to be be all gloom-and-doom, but there's all sorts of things in the news about how BV may cause pregnancy complications, including pre-term birth. On the bright side, not everyone is so sure about that, but either way, it's good to be cautious. I don't think this is a cause for alarm, but just make sure that your doctor is on board, and knows exactly what's going on.


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sooo sad
post Apr 12 2008, 10:56 AM
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QUOTE(CarrieBradshaw @ Mar 31 2008, 03:07 PM) *
I've been using the FemD for about 3 months and have been healthy since! I finished MetroGel and immediately began the FemD! I think that's the way to do it! I feel great!

I also switched from a low dose pill to a regular dose pill as I immediately started having problems when I went on a low dose pill. However, I've only been on the new pill for about a week.

BTW, sometimes we're going to smell from our groin area! Just like an armpit, the skin rubs together and sweats!! At the end of the day, you're obviously not going to be 100% smelling like roses......just as long as your discharge is odorless, that is all that matters....The V Book evens says sometimes our discharge can have a slight smell.....but, there definitely is a distinct BV smell.


hi carrie.....
i'm fairly new and just wondering if you have to do maintanence or do something after your period or sex. i'm so happy for ya that you're bv free...hopefully i can be too. i'm currently taking fem d ..(thanks to lori's suggestion!!) i've had this bv for 10months and i'm afraid it would come back again after i take flagyl. i wish i could be like lori and not do nothing but i'm too scared to not "maintain"
thanks...sooo sad
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mfc10
post Apr 11 2008, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE(sooo sad @ Apr 11 2008, 06:40 PM) *
maggie....

thanks for answering all these questions i have for you...you're so awesome hunnie! but i have one more... wink.gif . did you have sex while doing the "phase out" (boric acid 2 times a week). if you did...did you use anything afterwards like tea tree oil? thanks again so much hun. just seeing what kind of things ladies did while beating this bv battle...

sooo sad


Hi, hon! Nope--we abstained until I was sure I was really better. Thar would've been when I was doing the estrogen cream & the Sylk on alternating days (which I still keep up with, religiously!) We used condoms at that point, because I was no longer on the Pill, but not yet fully into menopause. I use SYLK lubricant before, during & after intercourse. That seems most soothing and, at the same time, the pH is acidic enough to help prevent BV or most yeast infections.

I read somewhere (but can't get my hands on the link) that once a woman is post-menopausal (no period for over a year or more), most of the good vaginal bacteria dies off (unless estrogen is used). But this isn't a problem, because the strains of bacteria responsible for BV also die out in there. I asked my gynecologist if that was true--he said "it must be-- I've never treated an older woman for BV!" So we have THAT to look forward to at least!! laugh.gif

Hugs,
Maggie
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sooo sad
post Apr 11 2008, 05:23 PM
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maggie....

thanks for answering all these questions i have for you...you're so awesome hunnie! but i have one more... wink.gif . did you have sex while doing the "phase out" (boric acid 2 times a week). if you did...did you use anything afterwards like tea tree oil? thanks again so much hun. just seeing what kind of things ladies did while beating this bv battle...

sooo sad
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smelledyucky
post Apr 11 2008, 02:27 PM
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Hi ladies. Im new here and just wanted to post what I have started about a month ago for BV and THANKFULLY, so far so good. NO MORE SMELL!!! First, I did a douche of Apple Cider Vinegar and water to regulate vaginal ph. Started taking FEMANOL, which came recommended to me and CANDIDSTAT[. Both twice a day. Also, did YEAST ARREST vaginol suppositories 2x a day during period week. They contain boric acid, oregon grape root and calendula officinalis, calendula flowers. I cant believe odor and other symptoms are gone and I feel like I got my vajajay back!!! I'll tell you, Im married and enjoy frequent sex with my hubby but this BV totally grossed me out and him as well. The smell after sex was disgusting and made us both not even want to do it.

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CarrieBradshaw
post Apr 11 2008, 08:16 AM
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oh and also!! when I was at the doctor yesterday I was asking maybe if yeast infections/bv could be indirect symptom of a thyroid condition. she basically patronized me and talked to me like I was an idiot. I was SOOOOO annoyed! okay, yes, it's totally a long shot, but I just want to figure out why the heck me? anyways, i was very mad when i left and will never see that doctor ever again!! btw, i have read before for some weird reason, hypothyroidism causes your body not to be able to fight off fungal infections (yeast)....oh well. sorry about that doctor rant, but i really cannot stand them!!!
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mg86
post Apr 11 2008, 06:52 AM
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hi girls!!

hope you all are doing great and experiencing some, if not complete, relief! I don't want to speak too soon but I am doing really well right now. I took the 4 flagyl at one time on Tuesday, and so far everything seems normal! NORMAL! can you believe it? I know I can't. I sometimes think I detect an odor, but its very slight so it may be my imagination.

I do have a question though: how long do I need to continue FemD? I have been taking 2 pills a day, but I'm almost out.

Carrie - I actually have used Clindesse several times and had good results. The only downside is the cream comes out for awhile, up to a week. But yeah the one dose is GREAT. Another downside is that it is expensive. With insurance one tube cost me about $40. Without insurance I think it is $70-80. My obgyn actually gave me some for free a couple of times which was awesome! It's worth a shot, and a lot better than horrible flagyl.

Thank you, have a good one.
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