[vesicapisces]

...must tell her that the fetus can feel pain.

And they have medical studies to back this up? I don't think so. I just love it when the state defines medical information, and WRONG.

Last night I went to our local Freedom of Choice coalition's annual Roe event - dinner at one of those banquet hall places, with a speaker who spent time last fall organizing in South Dakota to overturn their abortion ban. It was nice, and my organization had nearly 3 full tables of people in attendance. This is the second year administration has opened it up to all staff and paid their way.

[nickclick]

oops. sorry for the double post. ginger, that story reminds me of this case bouncing around the courts here in NJ:

N.J. Supreme Court To Hear Appeal Of Ruling That Jury Can Consider Whether Physician Being Sued Gave Adequate Information About Abortion

"Appellate Court Judge Ariel Rodriques, writing for the three-judge panel, added, "Obviously, the term 'baby' meant something different to Acuna and Turkish. For her, it meant an embryo or fetus; for the doctor, a human being following birth. Arguably, from Turkish's perspective, he answered correctly and discharged his duty to his patient by indicating there was no 'baby' there."

[nickclick]

hip hip hooray!
hip hip hooray!
hip hip hooray!

[ginger_kitty]

culture, that quote is crazy!!!

I was looking for this thread the other day.....I found out my state, Indiana is close to passing a law that before a women can get an abortion she has to talk to a doctor who must tell her that the fetus can feel pain. I think that's kind of cruel to put women through.

Okay three cheers for Roe Vs Wade!!!!

[culturehandy]

I know. I work for social assistance in the provice I live in, and granted things are okay here, they are still a disgusting mess.

I recall when I was in university, there was the Genocide Awareness Project on campus, and I wa arguing with these people about why there were all these children waiting to be adopted, and why can't we educate youth on birth control, there were never any answers. Then a man tried to tell me, I just told him to shut up, because he didn't have a uterus or vagina, he had no idea.

Every single time I read something, i think that it cannot get any worse. Then someone says something worse.

[maddy29]

oh yes culturehandy-they only care about the fetus, not about the actual life of the children. the same people who are urging women to have babies are the ones who also cut welfare programs and other types of support for moms.....

[culturehandy]

"In America we have a big drug problem, and we don't realize it's because of abortion".


Uh, what the fuck is that? I. Am. Speechless.

What I find infuriating is that people seem to think that if abortion were again to become illegal, that it would stop. All it will do is force abortion underground, and make back alley abortion prevalent again. Simply saying that something isn't illegal isn't going to make it stop. What will happen is that more and more women will have enormous complications and will die because they cannot access this service, I wonder how the anti-choice zealots will feel with that blood on their hands. Then again, it seems that they don't care about the women, they only care about the fetus. (My question is if the anti-choicers are so into this, why are there so many children waiting to be adopted. I guess they conly care about them while in utero).

[maddy29]

yah, what were you thinking lucizoe? women must be held responsible for having sex. they must accept the consequences of their actions. if they are irresponsible, well then, i'm sure being forced to have a baby will make them much more responsible.

grr.

i'm pretty nervous about where all this is going. i do think that a lot of people are so uncomfortable with the whole idea of abortion, and they really truly believe it's taking a life. i don't think those people are going to change their minds anytime soon.

tes, i think you are absolutely right-for those of us who've always had access to safe legal abortions it's hard to imagine living in a world where that isn't available. it's scary, i know several women who've had abortions, and when i think that they could all be dead from having back alley abortions, it's horrifying. i worry too about recognizing a fetus as a human-i mean that's already the case when someone kills a pregnant woman, right? it's considered two lives?

[lucizoe]

The thing I cannot wrap my head around about the whole brouhaha re-abortion debate...no one can legally force another person to donate blood, organs, bone marrow, even when such a donation could mean the difference between life and death for another, even one's own child. Parents cannot be legally made to give up their organs to keep their child alive. So why in the freaking hell is it even an issue when women decide they don't want to give up nutrients, bone mass, mental health, etc., for a zygote, embryo, or fetus? Especially if dog forbid a fetus ever becomes legally classified as a person. How is it different? I really want a forced-birther to tell me.

Oh. Wait. Because pregnant women have to have teh babies as a punishment for teh dirty sex.

I totally forgot that.

[tesao]

thank you nickclick! i came in to say happy anniversary, roe v. wade!!!

that was an interesting, provoking and somewhat scary article. brrrrrrrr!

i've been around long enough to have been of an age where i could have gotten pregnant and NOT have been able to get a legal abortion in the USA. i worry sometimes that people who haven't seen the damage (physical, emotional, psychological) back alley abortion clinics can do don't understand just how much of a landmark decision roe v. wade WAS. i worry a lot about winding up with a supreme court that will recognize a fetus as an individual human, thus bestowing upon it all of the rights that already belong to the mother and are the basis of the decision.

[nickclick]

today, the 33rd anniversary of roe v. wade decision, is a good day to resurrect this thread!

today's ny times cover story about anti-choice rhetoric posing as post-abortion counseling. (lengthy but worth reading, i think)

a woman "counsels" (she does not have a psych degree, only a "a revelation from god" as her credentials) women in prison who had abortions into forgiving themselves and imagining their "dead babies" in heaven.

yes, let's encourage women with unresolved emotional issues, rap sheets and likely drug-addictions to be mothers! save the children!

[ginger_kitty]

That man's views are disturbing to me! Thanks for posting those links, humanist77. I don't understand how he considers bc "demeaning" ? I considering having it available as empowering to women. The Women's Concern's policy was absurd.

[humanist77]

I was just reminded of it today when I got another email about it-we cannot let this happen!

Here are two more items-a Boston Globe article, and literature from one of Keroack's crisis pregnancy centers:

http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/hhs_fa...106/explanation

[roseviolet]

Thank you so much for posting this, Humanist! The appointment of this man is absolutely ridiculous.

[humanist77]

This is text from one of the emails sent to me from NARAL, Planned Parenthood, and someone leading an online petition, which already has over 22,000 signatures-let's keep it going! I got the first two almost a month ago, I should've posted this back then! Everyone sign all 3 at the bottom, and spread the word!

"President Bush's new head of federal family-planning programs
believes that birth control is "demeaning" to women.

Did you have to read that twice? So did we.

Late last week, after pledging to bring the country together
after his electoral losses, President Bush appointed Eric
Keroack to lead the Department of Health and Human Services'
family-planning program - which helps more than five million
people annually at 4,600 clinics nationwide.

Keroack has dedicated his career to telling women that birth
control and abortion are wrong. He most recently was the medical
director for A Woman's Concern, a network of six anti-choice
"crisis pregnancy centers" in Massachusetts that maintains a
policy that states: "the crass commercialization and
distribution of birth control is demeaning to women, degrading
of human sexuality and adverse to human health and happiness."

Putting a doctor who opposes birth control in charge of federal
family-planning programs is just plain irresponsible."

Help us block Keroack from assuming this influential position.
Click here:

(The Petition Site)
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/...;ltl=1165863415

(NARAL)
http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/hhs_fa...edS1%5fRM1QYX7E

(Planned Parenthood)
http://www.ppaction.org/campaign/keroackpe...Wp%5fH66F1CSnCE

[vesicapisces]

The hold-up on Plan B/emergency contraception has to do with the packaging mandated by the FDA - they required the manufacturer to repackage it so the difference between the OTC (OK to sell to women 18 and older) and RX (for women under 18) versions is clear. The women's clinic I work for just got notification that the repackaged version is available now. With a lot of contraceptives, you can return the unused ones (like ones that have expired before they could be dispensed) but the company that makes Plan B is not a huge corporation like Ortho - it may be that they can't afford to buy back what pharmacies have on hand. It does suck, especially since pharmacies apparently HAVE so much on hand but it was always such a trial to get it...

[tesao]

crinoline, that is SO frelled up! maybe your friend will get lucky and the expiration date is BEFORE they run out of the frelling prescription drugs. sometimes i think that people just don't target pharmaceutical companies ENOUGH. it makes me crazy when i see how much generic drugs cost in foreign countries where things like OCs are OTC. they are literally a tiny FRACTION of the cost. and so many insurance companies won't even PAY for contraceptives. grrrrrrrrrrr.

i have to second the south dakota love. when i first read that headline on screen, i had to REREAD it to make sure that i had really understood it! how wonderful is it that it said exactly what i THOUGHT it had said???

lucizoe: that translation was PRICELESS! muito thank you!!!

[greenbean]

Birth control choices DO fall under this thread,,so with that:
JESUS!!, thats f-ed up crinoline. That pharm is out right bullshiting. I got Plan B no problem when I needed it. I HOPE that is just an isolated case but sadly, it could be happening all over. You and your friend should shut those m-fers down!

These backward 'pro-lifers' are ruthless. Even here in California we had a proposition yesterday on mandatory parental notification if a teen seeks an abortion,..and it was nearly identical to what the state already voted against last election! Its like, dude, didnt we already vote no on this?

[crinoline]

Since there isn't really a birth control politics thread, I'll post here. I do want to make it clear that I am by no means implying that emergency contraception is abortion in any way.

Recently a friend of mine found herself in a situation that required the "morning after" pill. This is supposedly available OTC in all 50 states. She called me because she doesn't keep up with politics and didn't know how to obtain it.
I directed her to a pharmacy that was supposed to have it OTC. Turns out that while it is now legal to sell to adults OTC, they cannot begin to sell it until all of the prescription pills that they had ordered are gone. Conveniently enough, although the new policy went into effect months ago, they have a years worth of the prescription kind they have to sell. WHAT? This is news to me!
Doesn't it make sense to implement new drug policies as soon as they are concrete?! What other medication would they be allowed to do that with?

I should mention that we live in the Deep South, and it's amazing the little things people do to avoid following "liberal" laws. Is this an isolated case, or is this how pharmacies all over the states are treating the new policy?
Is the whole OTC availability just on paper?

I'm angry and frightened that it is so easy to lose the reproductive rights I thought we had just won!

[crazyoldcatlady]

hot damn! i was afraid they'd slip that CIANA thing in under the rug b/c there wasn't much publicity.