[sciongal]

wow...actually as a matter of fact , I HAVE been reading this post since last year and I do remember the back and forth...it got quite ugly...so as I do not choose to get into another condescending match with anyone, I will just keep my comments to my self and wish you all the absolute best in overcoming this condition. Peace...

[mfc10]

But your problem wasn't BV. As you said yourself, it was a persistent yeast infection (which boric acid *is* a known cure for).

Yes, my problem was repeated episodes of BV interspersed with non-Albicans yeast infections. It was the latter that caused the BURNING, which was what I was asked about. My gynecologists (two of them in fact) suggested that to stop the cycle, boric acid was the way to go. Since using it, and, granted, several other things like Estrace cream, SYLK, Fem-Dophilus and tea tree oil suppositories, I have never experienced either BV or yeast infections in over 18 months. But boric acid was the initial and main treatment that got me on the road to health.

If you don't like boric acid or the acidifying-the-vagina methodology, that is entirely your right, as it is mine (and my gynecologists') to advocate it.

Peace out.
Maggie

[lori]

no offense, but I thought this was a forum for EVERYONE to discuss what does and does not work for them ...individually.... as different as all of our bodies are, there may or may not be methods that work well for each of us.

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

I'm sorry to be such a killjoy, but as I explained recently, this thread, from its inception, is a long, sad chronicle of "bad product pussy explosions." Ladies getting excited about some crackpot product (jamu stick!), everyone shoving it up their bajingos, and everyone suffering from burns a week later. Not to mention the time and money wasted. It's practically tragic.

And not to toot my own horn, but I think more ladies have felt better and improved their health by reading my blog and following my suggestions, than they have in the history of the thread. And did that happen because I have some spectacular secret treatment? No. I just urge people to make informed decisions. I think people tend to kind of "jump on the bandwagon" in here, without fully knowing why or how something supposedly works.

So I don't think clearing up obvious misconceptions amounts to "not being supportive." My latest points are:

- manually acidifying the vagina alone does not accomplish cure/prevention
- hormonal-related vaginitis is not BV
- BV may cause potential pregnancy complications

Is sharing these facts a bad thing? I don't think so. I think everyone needs to know this. It's up to them what they do with the information. Do I have credibility? Does what I say make sense? It's up to every individual to make that judgment themselves. Just make the most informed judgment you can about what treatment to use.

And I'm also not saying people can't share what works for them. I'm just challenging everyone to back it up with some research. If you have a problem with that, then you know ... whatever. But I think I've contributed a lot to keeping people from setting their vaginas on fire. I may have stepped on a few toes along the way, but if you've been reading in this group since 3/2007, then you should know that I don't care about that.

Bottom line: if I think somebody is saying something that is wrong or misleading, and may lead to false hope and bad potentially harmful decisions, then I will speak up. I'm sorry I don't do that with hugs and kisses and tippy toes. People can digest the conflicting information and make their decision, or they can call me a cunt. Whatever. As long as the information is out there, that's all I care about.

--

*So again, to Maggie: I think when you say that SYLK is a BV preventative, and also when you say that it's the only lubricant with the right pH, you are being misleading. (For example, The V Book recommends Replens, and I think RePhresh even claims to lower your pH to a healthy level.) I think it's great that SYLK works for you. But obviously women will be ordering it because of what you said, expecting some great results, and being disappointed, because you are making claims about the product without support.

So I'm going to speak out about that. I'm sorry if that makes you unhappy. I don't have personal animosity towards you, and I think you're a valuable contributor to this thread. But I think you are making unsupported claims about a product, so ... yeah, well, there you go. I don't think you should do that. I just don't think applying SYLK (or any acidic solution) prevents BV. Feel free to prove me wrong anytime. (Come on, girl, you're a chemistry professor!)

[neverending]

Hey ladies!

Hmmm, so I haven’t checked in here in like a week. It’s been interesting reading what worked for some of you BV free gals, thanks for the tips. Anyway so last night I screwed up my life again. I kinda sorta ummmmmm, like you know……..made myself feel better. Ok so we’re all adults here. I masturbated. Well the point here is that now today I’m gettin ammonia whiffs. My body thinks I actually had sex!!! What the frick?!!!!! I didn’t even get to enjoy a live penis, what the hell!!!!!!!!!! I’m practicing celibacy, I have no time whatsoever for a boyfriend right now plus I want this shit gone completely before I get reacquainted with the penis. I’m getting all antsy now, I mean talk about wantin some man. I DREAM of a nice, throbbing penis. Seriously though a couple days ago I had floating penises throughout the dream!! It’s horrible I’m like all undressing guys with my eyes now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So they totally think I want it you know? Uugh. I so need some though, you know? I just don’t want the drama attached.

I guess it’s back to the old TTO again. When I woke up this morning I made an appointment with my new doctor because I want to switch up my BC again after getting some horror stories for the one I’m on. Also I need something better to take away my sex drive….celibacy ain’t easy. This time I’m asking for a metrogel prescription. I know, I know. I really shouldn’t but hey, I lasted as long as I could. It worked so well and long last time, the only reason why I feel my body didn’t get a chance to balance out the hormones is because I stopped taking BC AND also forgot to continue with the Acidophilus due to busy schedules. This time I want to give the Fem D another shot in addition to the Acidophilus, especially after all the success stories I just read. Only problem is the next available appointment is not for another month. WHAT! I want it NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really liked this new doctor the last time, I got in way sooner too. Oh and he gives me whatever prescriptions I want. He’s hella coooooooooooool!!!!!

So anyway keep up the suggestions, I went a little under budget last month so whoop! Whoop! I think I’ll go on a vitamin spree!!!

Oh yeah. I want to welcome all the newbies that I haven’t personally said Hi to yet: Sooo sad, Tabby, Damselindistress, Ladylyn. Hi girls!!! Welcome and never feel embarrassed to share, you just might be helping someone else. We all need as much info as we can get.

OMG! WTF? U are too funny! LMAO@ FLOATING PENISES------->PRICELESS!

[lori]

<<In women, anything that reduces the acidity (increases the pH) of the vagina increases the likelihood of infection. Acidity may be reduced by hormonal changes shortly before and during menstrual periods or during pregnancy. Frequent douching, use of spermicides, and semen can also reduce acidity.

Many bacteria normally reside in the vagina. One type, called lactobacilli, normally maintains the acidity of the vagina. By doing so, lactobacilli help keep the lining of the vagina healthy and prevent the growth of bacteria or yeasts that cause infections.>>

I don't think that disproves what I've said. I understand that it's the good bacteria that maintains the acidity of the vagina. I just think that the treatment should focus on increasing the good bacteria, rather than trying to manually acidify the vagina. It's definitely not a solution by itself.

Also, from "The V Book" by Dr. Elizabeth Stewart, director of the Stewart-Forbes Vulvovaginal Specialty Service at Harvard Vanguard Medical Associates:

<<"BV represents an imbalance of the bacteria that live in the vagina. The imbalance occurs because the vagina becomes less acidic, and without the acid it's like party time for the resident bacteria -- they have an orgy and overrun the place."

As you know, I cite The V Book a lot myself, and consider it to be a very reputable source. The vagina becomes less acidic - and the bad bacteria takes over - because the good bacteria goes down in number. This is information I got from The V Book itself. Do you disagree with that?

I don't believe that it says in the book anywhere that acid alone will cure/prevent BV. If that was the case, we should all be able to make BV go away by squirting vinegar up there every day.

I am just so glad I found --and am maintaining for over 18 months now--my vaginal health again via boric acid (among other things as mentioned previously) and SYLK.

But your problem wasn't BV. As you said yourself, it was a persistent yeast infection (which boric acid *is* a known cure for).

Some ladies in here have found boric acid to relieve their BV symptoms, but no one so far has found it to be a cure. I've done research on boric acid and BV, and have yet to find anything that supports its use for BV.

I agree that if anyone needs a lubricant, using one with the right pH is probably a better idea than using one that isn't. But I don't agree that SYLK, used like a treatment product as you suggest, can prevent BV. There is just no support for it. Can you provide any beyond anecdotal evidence?

[sciongal]

no offense, but I thought this was a forum for EVERYONE to discuss what does and does not work for them ...individually.... as different as all of our bodies are, there may or may not be methods that work well for each of us. I have read Maggie's postings and she seems excited and happy about what is working for her at this time... this is a tough condition to deal with, why can't we support each other instead of telling people basically, no, what you are doing does not work. Not trying to start a war here, honestly.

[mfc10]

[quote name='lori' date='Apr 12 2008, 01:14 PM' post='194998']
Maggie,

Sorry to put you on the spot, but I want to add a note to what I think is a misconception.

I don't think simply putting acidic solutions in the vagina does anything to "prevent" BV. Since the issue is a bacterial imbalance, I think the high-pH of the discharge is just a symptom. [quote]

Hi, Lori: I just go by what I read, by what my gynecologist told me, and by my education as a chemistry prof. For example, from the Merck Manual Web site, I submit the following:

<<In women, anything that reduces the acidity (increases the pH) of the vagina increases the likelihood of infection. Acidity may be reduced by hormonal changes shortly before and during menstrual periods or during pregnancy. Frequent douching, use of spermicides, and semen can also reduce acidity.

Many bacteria normally reside in the vagina. One type, called lactobacilli, normally maintains the acidity of the vagina. By doing so, lactobacilli help keep the lining of the vagina healthy and prevent the growth of bacteria or yeasts that cause infections.>>

Also, from "The V Book" by Dr. Elizabeth Stewart, director of the Stewart-Forbes Vulvovaginal Specialty Service at Harvard Vanguard Medical Associates:

<<"BV represents an imbalance of the bacteria that live in the vagina. The imbalance occurs because the vagina becomes less acidic, and without the acid it's like party time for the resident bacteria -- they have an orgy and overrun the place."

I am just so glad I found --and am maintaining for over 18 months now--my vaginal health again via boric acid (among other things as mentioned previously) and SYLK.

Respectfully submitted.
Maggie

[lori]

That seems most soothing and, at the same time, the pH is acidic enough to help prevent BV or most yeast infections.

Maggie,

Sorry to put you on the spot, but I want to add a note to what I think is a misconception.

I don't think simply putting acidic solutions in the vagina does anything to "prevent" BV. Since the issue is a bacterial imbalance, I think the high-pH of the discharge is just a symptom. I also don't believe that normal high-pH events (such as unprotected sex or getting your period) triggers BV, they simply trigger symptoms.

So I think simply working on acidifying the vagina is not the correct approach. I think this is why a product like RepHresh or boric acid doesn't work - for either treatment or prevention. At best, using Sylk probably doesn't hurt. But I think it's misleading to say that it prevents BV.

Yes, I'm sure many BV cases are linked to imbalanced hormones.

I think this is another misconception. Vaginitis caused by hormonal imbalance is a completely different issue, and the treatment for it is different as well. We shouldn't conflate these categories.

And lastly, to the pregnant lady who thought pregnancy would clear up the BV because it cleared up her HPV in the past? Sorry to be be all gloom-and-doom, but there's all sorts of things in the news about how BV may cause pregnancy complications, including pre-term birth. On the bright side, not everyone is so sure about that, but either way, it's good to be cautious. I don't think this is a cause for alarm, but just make sure that your doctor is on board, and knows exactly what's going on.

[sooo sad]

I've been using the FemD for about 3 months and have been healthy since! I finished MetroGel and immediately began the FemD! I think that's the way to do it! I feel great!

I also switched from a low dose pill to a regular dose pill as I immediately started having problems when I went on a low dose pill. However, I've only been on the new pill for about a week.

BTW, sometimes we're going to smell from our groin area! Just like an armpit, the skin rubs together and sweats!! At the end of the day, you're obviously not going to be 100% smelling like roses......just as long as your discharge is odorless, that is all that matters....The V Book evens says sometimes our discharge can have a slight smell.....but, there definitely is a distinct BV smell.

hi carrie.....
i'm fairly new and just wondering if you have to do maintanence or do something after your period or sex. i'm so happy for ya that you're bv free...hopefully i can be too. i'm currently taking fem d ..(thanks to lori's suggestion!!) i've had this bv for 10months and i'm afraid it would come back again after i take flagyl. i wish i could be like lori and not do nothing but i'm too scared to not "maintain"
thanks...sooo sad

[mfc10]

maggie....

thanks for answering all these questions i have for you...you're so awesome hunnie! but i have one more... . did you have sex while doing the "phase out" (boric acid 2 times a week). if you did...did you use anything afterwards like tea tree oil? thanks again so much hun. just seeing what kind of things ladies did while beating this bv battle...

sooo sad

Hi, hon! Nope--we abstained until I was sure I was really better. Thar would've been when I was doing the estrogen cream & the Sylk on alternating days (which I still keep up with, religiously!) We used condoms at that point, because I was no longer on the Pill, but not yet fully into menopause. I use SYLK lubricant before, during & after intercourse. That seems most soothing and, at the same time, the pH is acidic enough to help prevent BV or most yeast infections.

I read somewhere (but can't get my hands on the link) that once a woman is post-menopausal (no period for over a year or more), most of the good vaginal bacteria dies off (unless estrogen is used). But this isn't a problem, because the strains of bacteria responsible for BV also die out in there. I asked my gynecologist if that was true--he said "it must be-- I've never treated an older woman for BV!" So we have THAT to look forward to at least!!

Hugs,
Maggie

[sooo sad]

maggie....

thanks for answering all these questions i have for you...you're so awesome hunnie! but i have one more... . did you have sex while doing the "phase out" (boric acid 2 times a week). if you did...did you use anything afterwards like tea tree oil? thanks again so much hun. just seeing what kind of things ladies did while beating this bv battle...

sooo sad

[smelledyucky]

Hi ladies. Im new here and just wanted to post what I have started about a month ago for BV and THANKFULLY, so far so good. NO MORE SMELL!!! First, I did a douche of Apple Cider Vinegar and water to regulate vaginal ph. Started taking FEMANOL, which came recommended to me and CANDIDSTAT[. Both twice a day. Also, did YEAST ARREST vaginol suppositories 2x a day during period week. They contain boric acid, oregon grape root and calendula officinalis, calendula flowers. I cant believe odor and other symptoms are gone and I feel like I got my vajajay back!!! I'll tell you, Im married and enjoy frequent sex with my hubby but this BV totally grossed me out and him as well. The smell after sex was disgusting and made us both not even want to do it.

[CarrieBradshaw]

oh and also!! when I was at the doctor yesterday I was asking maybe if yeast infections/bv could be indirect symptom of a thyroid condition. she basically patronized me and talked to me like I was an idiot. I was SOOOOO annoyed! okay, yes, it's totally a long shot, but I just want to figure out why the heck me? anyways, i was very mad when i left and will never see that doctor ever again!! btw, i have read before for some weird reason, hypothyroidism causes your body not to be able to fight off fungal infections (yeast)....oh well. sorry about that doctor rant, but i really cannot stand them!!!

[mg86]

hi girls!!

hope you all are doing great and experiencing some, if not complete, relief! I don't want to speak too soon but I am doing really well right now. I took the 4 flagyl at one time on Tuesday, and so far everything seems normal! NORMAL! can you believe it? I know I can't. I sometimes think I detect an odor, but its very slight so it may be my imagination.

I do have a question though: how long do I need to continue FemD? I have been taking 2 pills a day, but I'm almost out.

Carrie - I actually have used Clindesse several times and had good results. The only downside is the cream comes out for awhile, up to a week. But yeah the one dose is GREAT. Another downside is that it is expensive. With insurance one tube cost me about $40. Without insurance I think it is $70-80. My obgyn actually gave me some for free a couple of times which was awesome! It's worth a shot, and a lot better than horrible flagyl.

Thank you, have a good one.

[CarrieBradshaw]

I got my thyroid tested yesterday.....so we'll see what the results have to say. I just have this little glimmer of hope that my BV/yeast problem has been a side effect of my thyroid going bad and maybe that will fix EVERYTHING!!! I know it's a long shot, but oh well. I haven't had BV in 3 months....but I'm freaking TERRIFIED everyday that it will come back. I have been having a slight odor this week, but I just can't tell if it's BV because no discharge and no irritation. Usually my only symptom with BV is the nasty white gooey crap. I never usually smell. So, we'll see. sometimes I feel like I do have slightly different smells throughout my cycle. But they're never BAD, just ya know, girl smells.

ANYWAYS, Also! I saw an Ad for Clindesse in a doctor's mag at the doctor's office yesterday.....I seem to remember several of you trying this, but I can't remember? Did anyone like it? One dose sure sounds nice!!

Have a great weekend everyone!!!!!!!!

Sprinkles -- your posts crack me up. Thanks

[damselindistress]

Hey, Busties. Thanks for the warm welcome. You all crack me up. I think this BV thing has made us all insane, so you just gotta laugh. All right, I'm gonna repeat myself here. Do any of the men in your lives have issues, prostatitis anything? Chronic prostatitis is the guy's version of our BV, no answers, no cure, just lots and lots of antibiotics. Come on, no one? I'm convinced we're passing this back and forth, even though the doctors say no. I don't want to believe that I have a defective coochie that cannot be saved.

[konphusion26]

Hey ladies!
Hmmm, so I haven’t checked in here in like a week. It’s been interesting reading what worked for some of you BV free gals, thanks for the tips. Anyway so last night I screwed up my life again. I kinda sorta ummmmmm, like you know……..made myself feel better. Ok so we’re all adults here. I masturbated. Well the point here is that now today I’m gettin ammonia whiffs. My body thinks I actually had sex!!! What the frick?!!!!! I didn’t even get to enjoy a live penis, what the hell!!!!!!!!!!

Hey TWIN! Girl you crack me UP!!! I totally feel you on this. I actually got a bit of a break from the red stuff (yuck) and got me a lil action from the hubby. LOL And wouldnt you know it, the NEXT day - tadaaaaaaah - Ammoniafish and the bleeding started again! I want to rip my hair out seriously. I finally got my femflora via UPS today and I took two of them. Wanted to take four but I'm taking so many other dang suppliments and vitamins and crap that I just get tired of swallowing pills. Oh by the way, I got evening primrose oil capsules (supposed to help with the insulin resistance thing and regulate the hormones or somethin to that effect). I really hope all this stuff works; its getting hot outside and i hate having to deal with bv during the summer. Seems like the smell gets worse when its hot.

I also want to agree with you on the mind problems, Sprinkles. Girl we have SO much in common its scary. I have the memory of a 95 year old and I'm very very impatient and easily irritated with everything. I too am easily distracted LOL The hubby jokingly says I have the attention span of a goldfish LOL Thats pretty bad.

Good luck every-bustie!

[SpRiNkLeS]

CarrieBradshaw: Yeah, my family has thyroid problems too. I agree with the ladies here, I’m pretty sure the thyroid hormones definitely affect our bodies’ other hormones and in turn the vitamins we take. I’ve been tested before for Hypothyroidism AND Hyperthyroidism (ok huh? I just confused myself) but my tests came back normaI. You know what I say to that? Bullcrap! I still feel I have a thyroid problem mainly because I have a very strong sweet tooth and damn milk chocolate! That crap gets to me every time! I actually am lucky enough to have an amazing metabolism (the main reason why someone would think they have a thyroid problem) so I don’t have that symptom BUT I seem to have all the other symptoms: Irregular periods (after I had my kid this changed to normal but now it’s back to irregular…also irregular periods are part of the regular imbalanced hormone problems but I was told it’s actually hypothyroidism?), lack of energy (everyone else calls it LAZY…like whatever! I do a lot everyday and no matter how much sleep I get I NEVER want to wake up in the morning, also I’m just damn TIRED all the time), depression, slow thinking process (my short term memory is a piece of crap! The thing retired on me or something). Also one of my old docs told me that an OVERactive thyroid could cause problems on the mind. Like impatience and irritability (that’s so me! He could tell I had that problem so he said it first), easily distracted (me again!), sensitivity to noise (totally me! I could write a page about this one. Everyone who knows me has fun with this), depression on and off (story of my life! Even though I can hide it well with my family), problems with sleep and of course with appetite. Heh, I seriously think I have both hypothyroidism AND Hyperthyroidism. I’m cleared of both so that just goes to show that sometimes tests aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. I mean for the first year I had BV I continually tested negative but finally at the end of last year the docs decided to throw me a bone (and some sanity!) and finally said my tests showed I do in fact have the BV bacteria.

Mg86: Hehe, so I’m the poop whiff girl around here, huh? Well it’s nice to know other girls with BV get that once in a while too! I haven’t had it since the TTO but I know it will come once the period starts.

Kristen: Haha, that first sentence was great. We should have a “Bored with BV” thread!

Morphia: Keep us updated with the possible Vitamin D link to BV! I realize I have different symptoms if I stop taking some vitamins, I actually stopped taking Vitamin D cuz I mean I had to cut the cost somewhere (along with other more costly vitamins, every penny counts) because I figured I get enough sun outdoors as it is cuz my little guy demands the outdoor life. Let me know what you find out!!!!!

My twinny twin: I will definitely check out FemFlora. Thanks for posting this! I am all for anything that will save me money!!!!

[SpRiNkLeS]

Hey ladies!

Hmmm, so I haven’t checked in here in like a week. It’s been interesting reading what worked for some of you BV free gals, thanks for the tips. Anyway so last night I screwed up my life again. I kinda sorta ummmmmm, like you know……..made myself feel better. Ok so we’re all adults here. I masturbated. Well the point here is that now today I’m gettin ammonia whiffs. My body thinks I actually had sex!!! What the frick?!!!!! I didn’t even get to enjoy a live penis, what the hell!!!!!!!!!! I’m practicing celibacy, I have no time whatsoever for a boyfriend right now plus I want this shit gone completely before I get reacquainted with the penis. I’m getting all antsy now, I mean talk about wantin some man. I DREAM of a nice, throbbing penis. Seriously though a couple days ago I had floating penises throughout the dream!! It’s horrible I’m like all undressing guys with my eyes now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So they totally think I want it you know? Uugh. I so need some though, you know? I just don’t want the drama attached.

I guess it’s back to the old TTO again. When I woke up this morning I made an appointment with my new doctor because I want to switch up my BC again after getting some horror stories for the one I’m on. Also I need something better to take away my sex drive….celibacy ain’t easy. This time I’m asking for a metrogel prescription. I know, I know. I really shouldn’t but hey, I lasted as long as I could. It worked so well and long last time, the only reason why I feel my body didn’t get a chance to balance out the hormones is because I stopped taking BC AND also forgot to continue with the Acidophilus due to busy schedules. This time I want to give the Fem D another shot in addition to the Acidophilus, especially after all the success stories I just read. Only problem is the next available appointment is not for another month. WHAT! I want it NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really liked this new doctor the last time, I got in way sooner too. Oh and he gives me whatever prescriptions I want. He’s hella coooooooooooool!!!!!

So anyway keep up the suggestions, I went a little under budget last month so whoop! Whoop! I think I’ll go on a vitamin spree!!!

Oh yeah. I want to welcome all the newbies that I haven’t personally said Hi to yet: Sooo sad, Tabby, Damselindistress, Ladylyn. Hi girls!!! Welcome and never feel embarrassed to share, you just might be helping someone else. We all need as much info as we can get.

[kristen]

dont have to much to say, i'm just so freakin bored. been like sitting here doing nothin not even watching tv for hours. not really any updates with my stink puss. nothin is to bad but its never quite right either. i'm just finishing up my period, no major hang ups with that. still taking the warm fem d sometimes once a day and sometimes twice just seems like i can't ever remember. i did stop taking the birth control i think like right when i got to the last set of pills the placebo pills or whatever. i'm really looking forward to a sex drive again now that my vag isn't so nasty. but we will see what happens if i start having sex regularly again. would be nice to get my boyfriend off my back thats for sure. i deffinataly need to get some fem d that did not get warm and see what happens with that.