[knorl05]

karategrrl.. good point.

further to our discussion about men's attraction to breast size being something inherited or a result of our social conditioning... i found an article in psychology today (august07), which discusses this issue.

"until very recently, it was a mystery to evolutionary psychology why men prefer women with large breasts, since the size of a woman's breasts has no relationship to her ability to lactate. but harvard anthropologist frank marlowe contends that larger, and hence heavier, breasts sag more conspicuously with age than do smaller breasts. thus they make it easeir for men to judge a woman's age (and her reproductive value) by sight - suggesting why men find women with large breasts more attractive."

i mean whatever, just another psychologist's opinion, based on his theories and experiments to support his theories.. but it's something to consider.. make you go.. hmm.

[karategrrl]

You all brought up a great point about the thinness issue. Small breasts are not only a thin-woman thing, though--as a few women here have mentioned, it is possible to have small breasts and a larger frame.

I do feel strongly about being attacked for being thin--it's been something that's happened to me a LOT. I wrote a blog about it a couple years ago that I'll post here if anyone would like to read it, but honestly I don't know if that would be getting totally off-topic.

There is always going to be someone that vents their own insecurity by attacking or bringing attention to OTHERS--whether the issue is supposedly breast size, body type/shape/size, skin color, age, gender, etc.

[knorl05]

lotus: right on. everything you said. especially about being attacked for being small. same thing happened to me on myspace. people were so cruel when i started a group topic about having a smaller frame.. they were like (and this sounds absurd i know but its true) go kill yourself then. i brought up the same point about "real women have curves" oh, i must not be a real woman then. i mean its hard enough not feeling quite as feminine as other women, but then to have all these overly voluptuous women come together and say that we're not real women. it's insulting. we hear the ignorance enough from men about big boobs, it's awful when these supposedly strong women feel the need to judge us as well. they think that because we are small we have no right to have issues with our bodies. granted, there are good things about being small, but it doesnt mean that it's the perfect condition. they simply cant understand. i guess the thing that we ALL have to remember, big or small, is that we really shouldnt give into the belief that our worth rests in our pant or bra size. that who we are is more than just our flesh. i think if more women embraced this concept they wouldnt be as worried about being in competition with one another. i think if more women were happy with who they are as people, they wouldnt try so hard to prove they are attractive or beautiful. afterall, i truly truly believe beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

anonymooose: so true.

[anonymoose96]

I know it's silly but I always feel a little hurt when I see book titles and movie titles like that too. Pretty much the only person that can commiserate with me on the too-skinny thing is actually one of my guy friends who also eats like a horse but can't gain any weight. However, talking with him about small boobs is out of the question obviously lol. It is good to have this forum to go to where no one's going to tear you apart for being the way you are naturally.

[Lotus0910]

Thank you guys for your warm welcome! I have wanted to find a place like this for so long. There are so many outlets for large women and so much attention being focused on weight issues and the way that large women are portrayed in the media that if you are thin with small breasts you have become the enemy. I see book titles like "Skinny Women Are Evil" and "Real Women Have Curves" and it makes me feel like there is a secret club that I am not the member of. It has become acceptable to insult a woman for having small breasts and/or being naturally thin. We as women should be supporting eachother and realizing that yes, we are all made in different shapes and sizes and that includes being small too. Yes it is okay to have a little extra meat on your bones, just as okay as it is to have small breasts or be naturally rail thin. I have gone to message boards and literally been attacked to the point of leaving whan mentioning such a subject. I also feel that I can't mention how I feel to even my closest of friend at times because I will get the standard "Must be nice!" comment or the 'Poor little thin girl' attitude. Why is that okay? It's not.

Do any of you guys feel as triumphant as I do when you see a celebrity or other public figure who has small breasts and just doesn't care? I feel so empowered to see women like Gwen Stefani, Kate Hudson, and Debra Messing strutting their A cups and being proud of them. They must have had a huge amount of pressure placed on them to get implants at one time in their carreer. Hell yes to them for not caving in, and hell yes to us! I will not conform!

[Jaymi]

Welcome to Lotus - I had the same reaction as you when I found this board.

17 and having plastic surgery....so sad - makes me wonder how scary she'll look by the time she's 40. I admit, in high school I had fantasies of getting a boob job. But now, I'm pretty fine with little boobs, especially since I know all the pressure comes from physical expectations of outsiders, and not from any true insecurity about myself. I wear my lovely padded bras during the day, and can go free and easy the rest of the time. That's so much better than having scary foreign objects inside me!!

That is so lame about the "gay" remark. What a lame assumption to say that if a guy doesn't buy into the big boob thing, then he must not like women at all. ARG! There's SO much wrong with that statement.

[knorl05]

lotus: welcome, glad you've found us!

dj biz: nice! how's the vaca going, it sounds like it would be fantastic!
another thing i love about claire daines is that she's always seemed to maintain her character and integrity through the years. there are very few actresses i can say i actually like based on their off-screen persona and she is one of them. i actually got excited about seeing stardust so i'm glad it's good. i've never been into fantasy novels, but for some reason the imagery in these type of movies does great things for my imagination.

so the show was only discussing kids getting plastic surgery, it wasnt discouraging it or advocating it. there was actually a 12 y/o on the show who had had lipo! and an expert who said that kids should wait until they are done growing to decide on ps because so many changes are happening in their body that could cause complications. that's why i was so irritated with the girls who had the surgery done, they acted so convinced that what they did was the best thing in the world. i think the show, although not directly supporting it, sent the message that ps is ok. (i could go off on a tangent but i wont;))

i love what you said dj biz, "beyond the breast obsession, the weight obsession i find equally upsetting. the emphasis is always on being thin and not on being HEALTHY." because it is soo so true. unfortunately from a young age girls are preoccupied with being a pretty princess, or like ginger mentioned, a barbie doll. our society and our culture raises us with these whack ideas and then judges us and condemns us if we either dont fit the bill, or alternately, if we do.

karategrrl: re: "Grrrr. Wish I had a way to deal with that..." one thing that's always kept me cool about these situations is knowing that my guy is neither with those girls, nor does he want to be, he's only looking at them. not to say i think there is anything wrong with entertainers necessarily.. it could be a woman on the street.. point i'm making is that men come across a lot of women throughout the day. if you choose a man who respects your feelings and beliefs, you really have no reason to worry about anybody else. that's always been my thought on the matter anyway. hope it helps some?

ps. i do concur. busties are amazing women!

[karategrrl]

the truth is that if more women challenged society's unrealistic ideal of beauty and embraced and respected their own bodies then maybe we wouldnt be a culture obsessed with perfection and preconceived ideas of sexuality.

Grrl, I couldn't have said it better myself.

I watched another guy movie with the hubby last night--Shadow Man (Steven Segal). Horrible movie, but (of course--it's a guy flick) there were scenes of half-naked chicks in a strip club. That was not surprising, but what was surprising was the fact that all the girls were natural. Hubby knows how I feel about the implant bullshit and commented, "hey, no silicone!" I felt good that they were natural but of course, jealous at my hubby watching objectified naked chicks. (My jealous/insecure side coming out...Grrrr. Wish I had a way to deal with that...)

Lotus, welcome!!!!!

I love all you gals. I wish we could all get together! But that's okay--this board keeps me going!!!

[greenbean]

Eww, Ginger-Kitty! What type of person said that? Thats one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

[ginger_kitty]

knorl, that's freaking crazy! Seventeen is way to young to have plastic surgery. I didn't even have a clue of who I was at that age. There should be guidelines with age restrictions on plastic surgery.

Ditto on the Claire Danes luv! I am always happy when celebrities are with small chests are considered sexy. To me big boobs doesn't not necessarily equate hotness, it's just a part of the absurd "Barbie doll" imagine women are supposed to be.

Today, I overheard someone at work say something like, 'if a man says he doesn't like big boobs, it means he is gay.' And was so totally disgusted.

[dj-bizmonkey]

hey ladies, sorry i've been MIA, i'm on vacation with the fam and sr. monkey in the mountains. i've managed to steal a bit of time by myself to surf the interweb in a little coffee shop downtown. i haven't see 300, but for the most part have gotten mixed reviews from people. i guess i'll have to check it out soon, especially if it is full of so many hot chicks.

i have always loved Claire Danes, ever since the My So Called Life days. You know, she isn't a total waif, I mean, she's skinny for sure, but there is more meat on her than say, Selma Blair or Kate Hudson. I just saw her in a that super-cheesy fantasy movie 'Stardust,' which i enjoyed more than i should have.

i find it disturbing that a girl as young as 17 feels like she needs plastic surgery. you aren't even done developing yet! i look completely different in my face and body than i did when i was 17. i'm with ya knorl (as per usual) and Lotus (welcome welcome welcome!). the only way we can change the direction of the culture is to refuse to participate in this part of it. youth, beauty, everything is so fleeting, one day you wake up and your 60, wrinkly, droopy, chubby and all the rest. why waste your youth on worrying about body image. beyond the breast obsession, the weight obsession i find equally upsetting. the emphasis is always on being thin and not on being HEALTHY. come on! i'd rather be healthy and be my regular size than too fat or too thin and be sickly. what was the perspective of the show on the girl's choice for surgery? were they promoting it? ok, i am being totally distracted at this moment, but it will try and write again later when i have time and am more collected.

[Lotus0910]

Hey everyone.. I'm new here and had absolutely no idea that something like this existed! It's so nice to see other women who are digging in their heels and saying "NO!" to plastic surgery. I am not deformed! I'm a 34A and while yeah it stinks sometimes that I'm always referred to as 'cute' rather than 'sexy' or 'gorgeous', or that clothes are generally cut for women with large busts and I look like a ten year old, I refuse to cut open my body to fit someone else's standard pf beauty. What sort of example are we giving to our next generation of women?

[knorl05]

rachael ray today was about young women having plastic surgery.... this one girl was seventeen and she had her boobs, lips and skin done. she said the main reason she had it done is because she had no boobs before and she would wake up everyday feeling bad about herself. she then proceeded to say that it's undeniable we live in an image conscious society and that if what she did makes her feel good about herself she is fine with it. and she was all fucking convinced she had all the answers. but the truth is that if more women challenged society's unrealistic ideal of beauty and embraced and respected their own bodies then maybe we wouldnt be a culture obsessed with perfection and preconceived ideas of sexuality. you know the only reason we are this way as a whole is because of the individuals contributing to the whole. how about instead of getting your boobs done you work on yourself and learn to feel good about yourself independent of your image? if she keeps this mentality into adulthood she's just going to be another insecure woman who runs to her plastic surgeon to make her feel good about herself instead of looking inside herself for her well being. and whatevs thats how it is but it just shows me that when women feed into the misconceptions they are in fact perpetuating them for the sake of their own narcissism. if you cant beat em join em. pshh

[knorl05]

mos def karategrrl.. and thank you for the 300 tip. i had no desire to see it but with what you mentioned i think it would be worth checking out. make me feel a touch closer to normal.

[anonymoose96]

[quote name='karategrrl' date='Aug 7 2007, 01:51 PM' post='165012']
Hey, has anyone else seen the movie "300?" It truly is a "guy" movie (I saw it with my husband), but the women in the movie were all SMALL breasted and natural!!!!! It's shocking, really, when you consider that it's a hollywood film (I do believe) and a GUY flick too! There were exposed-breast scenes with 2 different women, and they both looked like MEEEE!



I noticed that too. the great thing is that I've watched this movie with large groups of guys twice (once in theater and one at their frat house) and no one mentioned anything about size. actually they were too busy choosing which nude scene they liked better lol.

[karategrrl]

Hey, has anyone else seen the movie "300?" It truly is a "guy" movie (I saw it with my husband), but the women in the movie were all SMALL breasted and natural!!!!! It's shocking, really, when you consider that it's a hollywood film (I do believe) and a GUY flick too! There were exposed-breast scenes with 2 different women, and they both looked like MEEEE!

I was all poised to see pounds of silicone and it was quite refreshing to see normal, natural-sized women. The story takes places in ancient Greece and I am impressed that they took the historical accuracy right down to the breast size--I mean, they didn't have implants then, right? (Those were the days!!!)

Speaking of movies, did I mention the film, "Breasts: A Documentary?" You can find it on Netflix. Very interesting--just a fairly low-bidget indie documentary featuring women of all sizes, shapes, colors and ages talking about their breasts and their breast experiences. Many appear topless.


Hey, knorl, thanks for the India Arie song tip. It is awesome!! Let's just love ourselves, whether we be white, black, large- or small-breasted, etc.

[knorl05]

ani difranco and claire danes are the shit..

[Jaymi]

aww - I feel very welcome. Thank you ladies!

I don't remember that song, "Unpretty." I'll have to look it up. But the title reminds me of "Not A Pretty Girl," which was my anthem when I was 16. Ani Difranco also has normal (small) boobs. yay!

I saw Claire Danes on Jay Leno the other night and was so excited because she has little boobs too and has such a hot body! Seeing someone as attractive, and then later realizing that they don't necessarily fit the mold people have for "perfect" is so refreshing! Yay for Claire Danes.

[karategrrl]

I also love the "Unpretty" video. I posted about it awhile back, I think. All those girls were/are so hot...and small-boobed! I will watch the India Arie video!

[knorl05]

lilmiss: cos im a super dork.... when that song was popular it used to make me cry. yeah. ok still does. we need more positive messages/influences that speak the truth. another one that makes me fired up is I Am Not My Hair by India Arie. it's like FUCK. no. i'm not going to let these things define me no matter how much the rest of the world is programmed to think they matter.