[auralpoison]

I liked it. But am also a noir fan that also has a strong interest in Yiddish/Jewish culture. It wasn't as good as "Cavalier & Klay" but was an enjoyable read nonetheless.

[faerietails]

I wanted to read Chabon's book, actually. Is it good?

A couple days ago I played Rufus Wainwright's "Gay Messiah" and she just about died. I love that song.

GOD HAS YOUR ATTENTION.

Yep. Just like feminism has yours, only YOU seek it out. Guess you're closer to converting than I am, eh?

[auralpoison]

It's funny, but I just a read a book that has a new Jewish messiah at it's heart. He's gay, he's a heroin addict, but he has the touch of the messiah. I can't rightly recall the term, there was whole lotta Yiddish involved. Basically, they find a pure red cow, somebody blows up a mosque in Jerusalem, & they try to get the new messiah in line, but wind up killing him instead after he runs away again. It's a noir/conspiracy type thing. Chabon's the "Yiddish Policemen's Union".

[faerietails]

What the fuck is up with erecting huge crosses in the middle of nowhere (and I'm not talkin' run-of-the-mill church crosses)? I mean, shit. Freudian much?

I just drove from TX to NY (through TN and PA, et al), and if I never see another 50' tall white cross again I'll die happy. At one point there were three built perfectly centered so that you were forced to view them from the interstate for miles and miles and miles. I'm trying to admire the breathtaking mountains, and instead I have this shitty propaganda rammed down my throat because they were the only non-wilderness thing around. It's fucking vandalism of the scenery.

Even those obnoxious evangelical megachurches in Houston don't pull shit like that.

*kicks cross (hard) and ends rant*

[ellenevenstar]

Ha ha, well I don't think humans understand much yet!!! I think we've got only fragments and glimpses of the mystery, expressed and twisted in SO many different ways.

[deschatsrouge]

I always though that the messiah had to be human so humans could understand.

[ellenevenstar]

SR = Superman Returns. Sorry tes!

I am not Jewish but I am pretty sure the messiah they await is a human one. I do know that when Jesus began his ministry, there was quite a bit of messianic anticipation among the Jews of his time and place and they were preparing for the coming of the messiah in different ways, including forming / joining sects (like the Essenes for example) being baptised by John the Baptist, and doing political stirring against the Romans, like the Zealots. Lots of people imagined that the messiah would overthrow the oppressive rule of the Romans so were disappointed with Jesus and his message of vulnerable love and humiliating death on the cross. Sorry... tangent.... What I am trying to do is give some explanation why I think that the messiah is 'supposed' to be human.

[tesao]

not sure, because i'm not jewish, either. i do know that the old testament is shared by both jews and xtians, so the idea of a messiah is certainly present. i can't remember if the messiah is supposed to be born of man, the way that jesus (hay-zeus, just for you, girl trouble!) was born of man.

ellen elvenstar, i agree with you about jung and the archetype.

what is S.R.?

[ellenevenstar]

Interesting... wouldn't Jung say it's a primal human archetype, though, that various cultres / religions have appropriated (or tapped into) and shaped?

Maybe the director of SR was commenting that the likelihood of Jesus being the messiah is akin to the likelihood of superman being real. - ?

[girltrouble]

back to superman, i find it a bit ironic, that superman is such a christ figure, considering the people who created him were jewish, the director of S.R. is jewish. i'm not all that familiar with jewish mythology as far as what the messiah is supposed to be, but since it predates jesus (spanish pronouniation, please) i wonder if it's a jewish architype we've all accepted as americana/xtian.

[faerietails]

*smacks forehead*

wow, you're not the only one whose notice this escaped, tes...and it's so obvious, too, eh?

now it's gonna be the first thing i think of when i watch superman (kinda like whenever i watch the fucking matrix, although that franchise goes into hardcore overkill with the savior crap)

[ellenevenstar]

The Dark Knight - the hero the city needs but 'isn't ready for' also the one who takes the blame to set things right.

[chachaheels]

You know, the television superman on Smallville is slightly less pronounced on the Jesus-ness of Superman, but Superman's just another in a long line of Jesus-like archetypes. Jesus himself is one of the long line, too.


Prometheus
Bacchus
Jesus
St. Sebastian
Superman

all the same figures. The TV Superman leans much more towards the Promethean example though--what with all the "fire/lightning/explosion" imagery...and all the incredible empathy of the character. Any way you slice it, all these figures end up badly: in a forest and pierced and shredded by women, including mom, or on a cross and pierced by nails and spears, or chained to a mountain and pierced by liver eating birds, or chained to a post and pierced by arrows, or hidden in an ice cave and pierced by kryptonite.

Slight variations on exactly the same theme. We need saving!

[tesao]

this might be a bit off topic, but here goes...

i recently watched "superman returns" on a movie channel.

HOW have i escaped the jesus parallels up until now?

Jor-el the Father who sends his Only Son to Save the Earth?

Who has Special Powers that are seen as Miracles by others?

Who stands for Truth, Justice and the American Way?

ai ai ai.

[pollystyrene]

It is beautiful- spacious, the skylights are lovely; we just couldn't believe how much thought went into the religious symbolism of the building- I mean "the three walls of the waiting room symbolize the Holy Trinity"?!?! No, they're just freaking walls. The only reason there's three is because the reception desk is the fourth side. The spotlights outside that form a cross when lit? *puke*

I guess that's something I just don't get about Christians- this need to be constantly reminded of their religion. It just seems really insecure to me, like if there's any area of your life that doesn't reflect that, then it means you don't have complete faith in God or, worse yet, someone else might think you don't. I also think it's offensive when people try to cash in on Christianity...I don't think that Jesus would have done that.

Reminds me of a couple years ago, one of my mom's cousins (Irish-Catholic side of the family, so there's like a million of them) forwarded an online survey on behalf of her son who was in his late teens/early 20's and had an interest in photogoraphy. That particular family is either waaay more conservative Catholic than the majority of the family or maybe they'd even become born-agains, but the son was thinking of starting a photography studio and wanted to get people's opinions on what they'd think of a Christian-based photographer- if it would make them more or less like to go knowing the photographer's strong beliefs, if it would make them feel better to be in a studio where there were crosses on the wall, etc.

My mom and I took the survey and let the kid have it. We basically said it didn't matter what faith the photographer was, that it wouldn't make a difference if there were crosses on the wall or anything, but the fact that he was capitalizing on Christianity was just offensive and blasphemous.

I'm sure other family members told him how wonderful it was. I don't think he ever started up the business.

[kittenb]

I don't know, Polly. I was expecting much worse.

That is one beautiful building. However, I don't need to combine my religion w/my dental care.

[pollystyrene]

I work in a dental office and we found this other dentist's office online and we just laughed and laughed...you've got to see it to *cough* believe it. Make sure you play it with the captions on and there is a way to adjust the time of each slide....

(Rod Flanders voice:) Cavities make baby Jesus cry...

Note all the spelling errors- my office manager actually called them to let them know they need to proofread their captions.

[deschatsrouge]

Yes, I sometimes go to the unitarian services in my town. You don't have to have beliefs of any sort to go to their services. I wouldn't even call them services, they are more like talks or interesting lectures. One thing you have to watch out for, Unitarians want you to invest a lot of time and money, and come regularly.

this is their visitors website

[kittenb]

Having recently attended a funeral, I realized that I have come to miss having a spiritual community. In Chicago, most of the organized Pagans annoy me. They spend too much time Christian bashing or just being self-important.
Does anyone hear know much about Unitarians? Are there non-Christian Unitarians?

[neurotic.nelly]

The vatican and their high chief, the royal nimrod "fishhead", know there are ET's and they do not want your average worshiper to freak out if it ever came to pass as ET's being real, because God didn't mention anything bout' no aliens in da bible (actually they are mentioned in the bible). They're control and power would go to shit, better to admit it now.