[edie52]

I like it when y'all ramble...

So, has everyone seen the latest issue of Interview, with Keira Knightley on the cover? She's wearing suspenders, and not much else. I was psyched when I saw it, because her body really looks like mine (she's probably thinner, but proportionally). The inside photos are less revealing, but gorgeous, IMO- she looks like an 1940s Hollywood star. I leafed through it in the store, and later looked it up online to have another look. Of course, what I found was the cover pic with a bunch of peoples' (men and women) comments criticizing her body (and a few defending her). In addition to generally criticizing her breast size, a bunch of folks said she looked anorexic. Then someone pointed out that her thighs were actually quite fleshy in one of the shots. I think if she were the same size but with bigger breasts (even implants), people wouldn't be saying that. She'd look like almost every other Hollywood star. She doesn't look emaciated like Nicole Ritchie did. I mean, she's thin, but it's mostly her breast size that prompts people's "she looks like a boy" comments.

I don't think I've ever even seen anything she's been in, but I definitely feel a kinship with her! She's on our side (when I say "side" I don't want to mean us against other women, but against the media- though unfortunately other women can be just as critical, as we all know). She's spoken candidly about not loving the size of her breasts, but it also seems like she's accepted them. She's brave enough to put 'em out there and she's resisted getting implants.

Has anyone else heard that f*#king annoying song "Big Girls, You are Beautiful?" I mean, the title message is fine, but I hate the line that goes something like "don't want no skinny girl... want a reeeaal woman, with curves in all the right places." But speaking of that, I don't think the whole "real women have curves" marketing ploy actually makes things easier for heavy women. If Beth Ditto (who I think is awesome) posed on a (mainstream) magazine cover in nothing but suspenders, sure, some would celebrate it, but there'd still be snarky comments all over the web, people would still be thinking "I can't believe she's showing off a body that looks like that." I don't think the media is celebrating obesity or even diversity... just pretending to when it's convenient for them.

[dj-bizmonkey]

yes, yes and yes knorl!

i've said this before in here, but i'll say it again. bashing one another is completely counter-productive! 'real' women have XX chromosomes. even that is hard for me to say, because it doesn't included transgendered people who were assigned the wrong biological sex. i hate to say it, but i feel like the whole 'real women have curves,' marketing ploy is just in response to the obesity epidemic in the U.S. (that is spreading to Canada, Mexico and parts of Europe as well). Even though the the fashion industry and hollywood may hold an ideal of the ever-shrinking woman (from a 6 to a 4 to a 2 now-adays), the fact of the matter is, their average consumer is overweight. how to sell a product without alienating your consumers? you can either shame them by showing them that they are not even close to the ideal and the only way to get there is to: buy their gym membership, eat their diet food, take their diet pills, get a prescription to their diet medication. OR they can affirm their consumer's identity: sell them high-calorie, high-fat food in too large of portions, sell them endless forms of entertainment so they never need leave their home or desk and can completely disconnect from reality, tell them they are perfect, just the way they are.

women come in different shapes and sizes. some women will always be a bit bigger, squishier, plumper, whatever, no matter how healthy they eat and no matter how much they exercise. that is just normal variation. but there are alot of obese, unhealthy women out there that are being told to 'celebrate and embrace' their curves, when what they are really celebrating and embracing is heat disease, diabetes, hypertension, you name it. i think us women, as a whole, must stand up not only to an unattainable (by healthy, natural means) ideal and also the affirmation and celebration of complacency to our wellbeing, i.e. saying its fine to be obese because 'real women have curves.'

i am completely in the middle in terms of my body shape. body image has always been more difficult for me because i am a naturally, curvier woman. i have a big ass, a really big ass, and big thighs. that is where all my fat deposits are. i am a size 10 or 12. but i also have small breasts, really small breasts, AA's. i always felt like my top half didn't match my bottom half. i found it frustrating that it was okay for skinnier women to have smaller breasts, because they were 'proportional.' i have only met one or two women that are built like me, but they are out there. just as there are the few women who are naturally very thin who have enormous breasts, there are women who are naturally bigger and have small breasts.

i'm glad that knorl brought up the concept of small-breasted women being in the minority. i think that is an accurate description. the average breast size is not an A-cup. (sorry to any B-cupped busties in this thread, but i just don't consider B's to be 'small,' i guess it's all relative.) so in that respect, we are a different kind of minority group. just like knorl said, we shouldn't expect to be adequately represented in mainstream media-images.

we need to stop tearing each other down. some women are skinny, whether they eat cheeseburgers or ricecakes. i envy those women. i certainly don't hate them. they didn't pick out their genetics. some women have large breasts, whether they exercise or diet or even elect to have surgery. i envy those women. it is a nasty emotion, but i can't deny it. we all envy things about eachother. i wish i had your-- insert whatever attribute here. but being jealous and being hateful cannot amount to any positive or constructive outcome.

let's get out there and represent, ladies. yes we are the in the minority (or so it appears in the Western world, i don't know if it would be the same if we all move to say, Thailand), but no one will notice or consider us if we aren't visible and confident. you wouldn't be afraid to be different from the crowd in terms of who you vote for, what music you listen to, what art you appreciate.....don't be afraid to be different in the way that you look. instead of celebrating complacency, let's celebrate diversity, in ALL the forms it takes.

wow. this dj is rambling rambling, rambling.

[anonymoose96]

so i've been thinking about the issue of "real women having curves". this statement is a media concoction. the media sells ideas to sell products. i've realized, i like the fact that less endowed women have yet to be exploited by the media. just because we're not touted as sex symbols or simply because we arent on a billboard in our bra and panties does not make us unattractive. it may feel this way, it may feel as though we are unwanted, or undesirable, because we dont conform to the standard or the norm, but that's entirely not true. we are a minority. and it's always harder for minorities to be seen, heard, appreciated. most people are heavily influenced by the media, and by the mainstream, by majority vote, and that's just how it is. personally, i would like to see more independent thinkers running around than those who dont recognize individual appeal, although i realize that's just an ideal. i think we've got to see how things are, how they have been, and figure out what matters most to us. of course i want to be attractive, of course i dont want to be pitiful or wrong or ridiculous.. but i'd much rather have self respect. and i'd much rather live true to the belief that there is no perfect person and everyone has something attractive about them. i am slightly offended by women with fake breasts, face lifts, or any other obvious form of plastic surgery (and men for that matter). we dont share the same thoughts about life and so i dont want to be lumped into some category with them. if that means i will struggle to accept myself as i am, and if that means i have a slightly more difficult life than those who allow themselves to be molded by current trends, well then so be it. i would rather live true to my own beliefs, than allow the construct of someone/thing else to determine how i feel about myself and those around me.

amen! You just took all the thoughts floating around in my head and put them into words better than I could ever have dreamed of.

[knorl05]

so i've been thinking about the issue of "real women having curves". this statement is a media concoction. the media sells ideas to sell products. i've realized, i like the fact that less endowed women have yet to be exploited by the media. just because we're not touted as sex symbols or simply because we arent on a billboard in our bra and panties does not make us unattractive. it may feel this way, it may feel as though we are unwanted, or undesirable, because we dont conform to the standard or the norm, but that's entirely not true. we are a minority. and it's always harder for minorities to be seen, heard, appreciated. most people are heavily influenced by the media, and by the mainstream, by majority vote, and that's just how it is. personally, i would like to see more independent thinkers running around than those who dont recognize individual appeal, although i realize that's just an ideal. i think we've got to see how things are, how they have been, and figure out what matters most to us. of course i want to be attractive, of course i dont want to be pitiful or wrong or ridiculous.. but i'd much rather have self respect. and i'd much rather live true to the belief that there is no perfect person and everyone has something attractive about them. i am slightly offended by women with fake breasts, face lifts, or any other obvious form of plastic surgery (and men for that matter). we dont share the same thoughts about life and so i dont want to be lumped into some category with them. if that means i will struggle to accept myself as i am, and if that means i have a slightly more difficult life than those who allow themselves to be molded by current trends, well then so be it. i would rather live true to my own beliefs, than allow the construct of someone/thing else to determine how i feel about myself and those around me.

[Vendetta]

I think you're talking about trademark Dove, their campaign has been great. Surely it is helping women around the world to look at themselves and enjoy their little faults. Do you know Suicide Girls? www.suicidegirls.com It's women with tattoos, piercings and bodies just like you and me. I've photographed two portuguese beauties and surely my idea of female beauty has changed. I hope I can photograph a lot more of them. I've actually started to find beautiful some features I never did before.
And have you seen any photos of before and after breast augmentation? I've seen women who clearly deserve it and here I am complaining about my really small but perky boobs. Go figure.

[anarch]

crinoline, your cop story is hilarious!

dj biz - yeah, great tshirt. also, about those spring break assholes, while I agree that most guys in private would be happy to see nekkid boobs of any dimensions, it's different when they're roving around in packs in a place, time and culture that sanctions assholery. I guess that's not all USian Spring Break is about, but the imrpessinos I have of it are from watching clips on tv (I'm Canadian) when, and one thing stuck with me: a long shot of girls stepping one by one onto a small platform, doing a 30-second dance/strip (not all the way, but down to underwear I think) while a rowdy crowd cheered (mostly guys)...until one girl stepped up and for some reason I couldn't figure, the crowd booed her almost instantly and kept doing it until she got off (she stuck it out for the whole allotted time, omg what guts or something. Hopefully she was strong enough like you to think, "Fuckers don't deserve me". I and my roommates couldn't figure out WTF they were booing her for. Possibly it could have been boob size but honestly we couldn't tell whether she was particularly small.

anyway, that's just to say that I think guys often behave differently when in private and alone, than in public and wanting to puff up for their fellow neanderthals.

[starship]

I think it's great that more 'normal' women are being celebrated but it sucks that ladies like us are ostracised in the process. I've always been naturally skinny. The past few years I filled out a little. got a bum, slight hint of hips and my stomach is no longer concave. I think that in the same way people can be 'big boned' im actually er 'small boned'. Im pretty sure my shape and size will always appear skinny, unless perhaps I became clinically obese. Just like you get some people who, no matter how much weight they lose, always look a little chubby.
There was this fab program on earlier this evening. It basically revolved around the end aim of getting a bunch of real women to get together to get publicly naked to celebrate women's bodies. Sounds a little odd but along the way it explored some interesting points. The amount of airbrushing in magazines etc was shocking. It showed a woman looking normal and then after airbrushing and the difference was crazy mad. Also touched on mastectomies. Got me thinking about how silly it is worrying so much about breast size when there are women out there going through such an awful illness and would probably swap breasts with any one of us if it meant being fit and healthy. And, just incase youre interested, there were also numerous small boobed women at the programs end gathering

[Vendetta]

yes, exactly.. "real women" nowadays are curvy ones, and us skinny ones are being left behind. Because society guesses that real women are the opposite of those gorgeous women on the media who are... skinny, but have curves. Everyone calls me skinny but i'm not that skinny under my clothes. I've got a good amount of fat below the waist lol and celulite and a lot of strech marks.. but no, I don't have a lot of hips so, im skinny. And I don't have boobs, so i'm skinny. I guess that's how people see me. And if I put on weight, that weight is going to places where I don't want it to be lol I'm not gonna get curves by putting on weight and the only thing I would get would be a belly more proeminent than the boobs. Ackward.
I would like to be a B cup to match my not-a-lot of hips. And to give some balance to my short legs and really long and flat torso. I used to be called "esparguetti" for that. When my boobs inflated that summer and I had put some weight due to vacations, I was called "more womanly". I miss that compliement so much.

[starship]

Vendetta i understand exactlyy how you feel. I dont want 'big' boobs. just boobs....I'm trying desperately to stop it from getting to me so much but that's harder than you'd think. Breasts are everywhere! constantly being praised and admired...I have to admit it's kind of disheartening to hear someone else saying that theres no other way for them but surgery. The more people I hear of getting surgery the more it seems like that is what i should be doing and it becomes so, i dunno, normal? It makes me angry that we should even have to consider paying thousands to have a serious operation where junk is stuffed under our skin. And for what? so that we can feel validated as a women? It's insane and almost sickening...
I heard something on the radio today about a new type of breast enlargement where you have soem sort of injection into your breasts and thats it. Apparently it's a lot less invasive than having implants and is the sort of surgery you can get done 'in your lunch break'. Dont suppose anyone has heard anything about it?
There seems to a new trend of trying celebrate 'real women' here in the uk. Lots of TV shows where they show that normal women can be sexy/ the occassional ad campaign where everyday women are used etc. Seems great but the only trouble is that they seems to have decided that 'real women' are only women who are curvy. The sort who are self conscious of their stomach, maybe some wobbly thighs and so on but they always portray them as being redeemed by their large chest. 'Look at *insert name*s cleavage, it proves that real women are sexy'. I'm sure it's great for some people but others like me are just left with the reinforced conception that you need curves to qualify as a real woman...
It's funny you mentioned putting on weight DjBiz because that's actualy what I'm trying to do at the moment. Not become obese or anything but I've always been really skinny and wanted a curvier body. My friends think I'm crazy but I'd say the same about them. the only part of me thats ever had any real meat on is my ass and I dont think it's a conincidence that its my sexiest feature...Also, I want your tshirt!

[Vendetta]

I know I will take the cowards way. But I'm pretty sure I am going to spend my life unhappy with a part of me. They are just too small, almost non-existant. I would be happy if I even fitted an A cup. All lingerie stores around here sell it only above B cup. I have to buy my bras on chinese stores, asian women are small-breasted and they have A padded cups. I'm nuts about lingerie and sexy stuff and it hurts as hell not being able to wear that. And even if they had A or AA cups, I don't find sexy looking at a bra with no breasts in it. And push-up bras are out of the question as I don't have anything to push. I am bisexual and I am attracted to breasts. Not big breasts, I hate it, but I do respond to them. It's kinda weird feeling attracted to a girl and envy her breasts at the same time...
And all of this is so ridiculous and I feel so ridiculous lol Why the hell do I need breasts to feel feminine, womanly? I shouldn't need them. I am so fascinated by them and find them such a beautiful feature on a woman's figure. I am so curious of how it feels to have them, to feel their weight, their touch, their power. I have good things on me, I am an attractive woman. I'm tall and thin, I've got good and really long hair, I don't have a good skin but I take care of it and wear foundation on a daily basis. I take care of myself, I love to feel pretty. I don't usually wear revealing clothes, i'm more discrete and low profile but when I feel like revealing a bit more... Okay...I only wear mini-skirts on a beach scenario, otherwise I don't feel confortable. I'm 24 years old, so I'm not going to show off my belly. Allright, my face should be enough.
You know what's really really hard? Being on the photography world. And because I'm keen on photographing women and fashion and nudes... sometimes I go home really really down. Have fun: www.olhares.com :*

[auralpoison]

I have a favorite saying, "Everybody loves tits." Big, small, somewhere in between. I've even asked my gays about it & most of them think tits are pretty cool.

[emmabove]

yeah, I think it's true that generally, all men just like boobs in general, and that large breasts are like the red sportscars of the world of mammaries. they are eye-catching.
my boobs are not corvettes, nor are they cadillacs. they are more like a pair of those little smart cars.

[dj-bizmonkey]

thanks knorl, i missed you too......and all my bustie friends! geez, i've been down in a hole, but i'm moving towards the light and getting back to my normal life!

ANYway, i quit smoking about two months ago *pats self on the back* after 12 years of close to a pack a day. while my lungs and heart feel better i have gained about 20lbs! the only thing that i like about it is my boobs are just a little bit fuller. i don't think it is perceptible to anyone but me, but they've got some weight to them now. i have to say i've been enjoying that part. the rest of my bits, well, it's just blech with a side of blech. to the gym with my lazy bones i say! i will be sad to say goodbye to my fuller breasts, they are the last place to fatten up and most likely the first to slim down.

i agree that most guys just love breasts no matter what the size. but i was duped, into doing something beyond stupid and degrading by that very same argument. i can't remember if i posted about it here or not. i was on spring break in the redneck riviera, aka florida, which during that time of year people cruise up and down the strip, flashing their boobs and getting beads. it's funny because now i live in new orleans, and while i expected to see that everywhere during mardi gras, it was really contained in the french quarter and i only encountered it when i went down there. anywho, so there i am with all my big breasted high school girlfriends and they are flashing left and right. my friends convinced me to do it, saying 'all they want to see is breasts, they don't care about the size.' so i did it to the first set of un-evolved men on the sidewalk with beads. they laughed at me. hysterically. and refused to give me any beads. i didn't cry then, but i certainly rolled up my window and was silent for the rest of the time. now, i did a very silly thing. i am not one to judge an exhibitionist, but these dudes were losers and did not deserve to see anyone's breasts, not even mine. so in the end, though i have myself to blame, who cares what those neanderthals think anyhow (and i may be insulting neanderthals now).

despite my negative experience, i think the general rule holds true: men like naked women. period. and the same axiom that we have espoused over and over again, no shallow, vain man who would obsess over only one body part would ever deserve to be with a strong, proud, breathtaking and dynamic bustie woman. and that's that.

[anonymoose96]

Most of my friends are guys and on occasion we do have a meaningful conversation or two, and when they aren't all in one big testosterone laden group they seem to agree as well that they just want to see boobs. The size doesn't matter that much.

[knorl05]

dj biz... missed you! glad you're back. shirt sounds awesome. i went to that site but i think it's changed, as it was all baby stuff on it; no tshirts.

i dig the idea of bearing nips girlies. but alas, i've never had that courage with anyone other than current beaus. what i consider sexy is what i consider sexy and i dont feel my titties look appealing that way, so i'd rather not display myself in a way that i dont consider attractive. heard? i do give props to all ladies who feel confident and comfortable with their bodies because i believe that to be the sexiest quality to have. and again, i can attest that not all men think big breasts are the ideal. my ex said it best, (and although he sounds piggish he's not really) "boobies are boobies, being a guy i just want to see girls boobs". he doesnt care the size, shape, etc he just likes boobs because it makes him excited to see them. i realize that sounds uber dorky but if you think about it, i think most "real" men think that way.. as in real being dudes who arent all *grunt* *grunt* *grunt*

anyway. vendetta. i dont know what to say. if you feel surgery is the way to go, that's your choice, and it's your body. i'm all about supporting women to make decisions they feel are best for themselves. i just wonder if getting your breasts done goes against your values, whether or not you'd really feel better about yourself post-op..? to be honest, my therapist helped me to sort out the same conflict. yes i'd like to have bigger breasts, but it matters more to me to challenge misconceptions and find the truth in everything. giving into someone else's idea that fake breasts are some sort of "correction" to my body isnt living true to what i believe, so i would probably be upset with myself if i allowed myself to be too heavily persuaded by an indirect message that i picked up on. but that's just me. it really does come down to how you feel about yourself at the end of the day, and if you feel surgery would increase your confidence i say (educate yourself on safest measures and) go for it!

[Vendetta]

Hei girls, I came back to have a look at the forum and it's good to know that there has been some action lately. How's everyone doing? I admire you for accepting yourselves the way you are, it shows on your conversations. But I guess I had to admire myself for that same reason for accepting it my entire post-puberty life. I can't stop feeling so self-conscious now. I guess I wouldn't have a problem if I had normal small breasts, but my breasts are beyond small, I don't even fill an A cup. It's totally unproportional. And I'm so sick of ultra padded bras and silicon gel inserts.
I didn't know that our national health service would afford breast augmentation. Of course there are conditions, they measure up our chest and have the surgery just in cases of severe hipomasty ou mammary ptosis. My case is hipomasty and I'll give it a try. Apart from the waiting, years in some cases, I would be happy just to know that I have that opportunity as I can't afford it. I know I'd rather spend my energy losing my mind (and my money) in lingerie shops and such, than to spend that same energy trying to convince myself that breast augmentation is for weaks and is against my values. I don't care anymore, I just want to feel good about myself and that fake breasts would be the breasts my body was supposed to have. Hopefully that surgery is going to be the puberty I never had.

[dj-bizmonkey]

oooo, sorry for the double post.

on the subject of nipples however, i've never been shy about showing mine off. i love barely-sheer tops where you can see the outline of the nipple. it's my version of cleavage and i think it's totally sexy.

[dj-bizmonkey]

hey ladies, i'm baaaaaack. i've been on a two month long hiatus from bust. i am drowning in graduate school. finally, after the mardis gras madness has faded i can get back to a normal life and back to posting on bust! i'm glad to see this thread is still getting alot of action.

on the actual mardi gras (that being this past tuesday) i wore my "who needs big tits when you have an ass like this," t-shirt. (karategrrl i think you posted a link to that tee, it's from jane.com) i got loads and loads of compliments on it from both girls and guys. i even had an old black lady shout at me from a passing car, "yeah girl, you said it!" i was so proud and happy, especially since down in the french quarter ladies are giving peep shows for beads. i'm not willing to do that (and any man who wants to trade beads for flashes has no interest in seeing my tits) but i am willing to shake my booty.

[karategrrl]

I admit to having a bit of a thing for large areolas. Hee hee. My areolas are, I guess, medium sized, while I have those almost cylindrical nipples (when they're erect). I don't especially care for when they get like that.

Thank Goddess for the fact that all breasts--large or small--have one common characteristic--areolas/nipples!

[konphusion26]

WOO HOO for nipples!! LOL I have really tiny nips HAHAH so you cant really tell when mine are stickin out. I would have probably gotten a ticket that day LOL Hooray for Crinoline!