[SpRiNkLeS]

KONPHUSION: Hugs my sister! Thankyou SO MUCH for everything you have written here! I don’t think you realize just what a great discussion you have started. Discussions and even disagreements are sometimes a good thing. A woman who sticks up for what she believes is a woman to be respected. I am horrible at wording my viewpoint however you can get it right PERFECTLY without babbling on and everyone loves you!!!! You encourage me to stay strong along with countless guests whom I am sure read this here thread. Our faith is nothing if we are not tested. Everyone here will probably laugh but I’m proud, girl! (((double hugs!)))

[SpRiNkLeS]

Hey girls! So I just got through with reading all the many fascinating posts here from Feb 26 through today. I almost always stick to the Our Bodies, Our Hells forum because I have a health issue I’m dealing with however once in a while I’d check into here. For a while it was kinda dead so I never came back until now and Oh my gosh, wow it’s now packed with posts!! I really should get to bed, my goodness I will only have a few hours worth of sleep until my kid wakes up but oh well, this is kinda juicy. I can always stop by Starbucks later today for a quick zap.

Unfortunately the link for the ‘for the Bible tells me so’ from DJ-bizmonkey didn’t work for me so I didn’t get to see that BUT I’d like to share what I think regarding this topic. As a fellow Christian myself I agree that homosexuality is a sin because that is what the Lord tells me, through His Word. As someone here mentioned, I forgot who (so many posts to read!) the Bible doesn’t really talk about homosexuality that often, so I myself am very confused on whether it is a choice or not. I was raised and taught that is IS a choice however my common sense leads me to believe that it is not really a choice. However I don’t think that is what the topic is about, I think what everyone here seems to be commenting more about would be the ACTIONS of homosexuality. (So I probably didn’t word that correctly but it is late and I figure you get what I mean) Nowhere in the Bible have I come across actual answers as to whether we can all be born with this or not…………..again, my common sense leads me to believe that you can, seeing as babies are born every day with different things either physical or mental that are considered to be not normal. But all I know is what God tells me, and that is this: the act of a man and another man lying together is a sin. However the act of a straight man and a straight woman lying together is ALSO a sin unless they are married. Well gosh I have sinned so many times along with every other Christian and non-Christian!

Not sure if I’m really adding much to this discussion, or really making much sense so I’ll try to wrap it up here. I get so angry when I hear that someone is violent toward someone else just because of their sexuality or what they believe. That makes me so sad but they shall one day have to be judged for what they did, whether they call themselves a Christian or not. Also I think when certain evangelical people in the media speak harshly against a certain people I just kinda cringe because that is not the kind of message we are trying to portray. All I know is this, Jesus loves us all SO MUCH. He loves each one of us no more, no less. There are no favorites here. Just because a man is homosexual doesn’t mean he is not loved, or that I myself think him to be gross or that I am better than him. If he decides to lay with a man, well he sinned. But I am no better for I have sinned one way or another my whole life however I try to read the Bible daily so that I can become a better person and learn to refrain from sin as much as I can. The Bible teaches above all to love. And never to forget that we are all loved so much.

I learn new things daily, from God I draw my strength. Do not ever let another person make you feel as if you are less than they are. Churches are not perfect, Christians are not perfect at all and I hope no Christian has ever said that they are. No man can ever be perfect. Sometimes some “Christians” in the media get too outspoken about crap but I think we forget, even me, that they are only trying to help teach the word of God however because they are only human their emotions take over and they say the wrong things. *cough* Rush L. *cough* Ok well that’s all, I think I’m talking in circles here I really need to get to bed.
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P.S. When I became born-again I slowly started to read the Bible. The more I read the Bible, the more I understand, the more I WANT to obey God, I want to make my Heavenly Father proud. There is no other feeling so powerful than to feel His love. For me it all just kinda clicked into place and life from then on just becomes so amazing. I will admit though that I sometimes do have trouble understanding some scriptures, sometimes it is hard for me to listen to people trash talk Him who loves you so much, however I take it day by day.

[konphusion26]

Nah I've decided to take a step back (i keep saying that, but keep adding responses- i cant help it). I am very passionate about my faith, and I enjoy being able to interact with everyone without tension or hostility or going around in circles on issues. That was not my goal. And I admit I got a lil upset today so, to keep from damaging the good and loving rapport i've built with everybustie, this will just be a topic that I remain quiet on. I'd rather just walk away. Everyone knows who I am now. I will still be lurking. You will most likely find me in the Our bodies Our hells thread or the SEX thread. I have no shame in admitting I'm a very sexual (married) Christian woman who enjoys the BUST lounge- that will never change LOL I am who I am and I love sexxxxxxxx LOL the more the better. HAHA

Have fun lovies! I'll keep you all in my prayers whether you want me to or not HA! lol

[neurotic.nelly]

Hello All,
I wrote my earlier post at like 5AM, ahhhh, I had just woken up and wrote whateva came to my mind, without editing. Hey, if it came off as bitchy, that's cause it kinda waz.

I am not christian, and from an outsider's perspective, the bible is contradictory and hate-filled. I mean really, the shit I know about the bible does not come from my having read it or from being in bible study, it comes directly from the mass media and word of mouth from friends that are christian. Again, it comes off as contradictory myths. Even the prayers are strange to me, they kinda creep me out.

OH! The myth that homsexuality is somehow unnatural, take a look at this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE
The animal kingdom is hella gay!

I was raised without religion being forced upon me. I didn't have to go to church. My mom waz raised in the church and baptized and for her that waz that. She still believes in the bible, but only when she is scared about something like earthquakes. When there's an earthquake she breaks out the bible, never fails. But thankfully, none of that was pushed on me. And b/c of that, I loved going to church with my grandmother or my friends and their families. I went when I wanted and for me, it was always kinda fun. I remember one time being in a bible study when I wuz about 10 and the sunday school teacher asked us all if we thought we were going to hell? They all answered yes to that question of hell. Me? I said that I'M GOD BITCHES. Nah, I just said no. I knew that I wasn't going to hell. Then I went home and made out with my best girlfriend.

I do not agree with creationism or evolutionist. DARWIN wuz wrong, survival of the fittest is an imposed idea just like creationism. Darwinism is still, a THEORY, based on the assumption or "observation" that nature selects those members of a species best adapted to the environment in which they find themselves. It speaks nothing of CONSCIOUSNESS! What role does consciousness play in our lives, in evolution, and in our collective reality? Quantum mechanics says that the world around us is actually a hologram, everything is made up of the same subatomic and atomic particles, and everything is vibrating at a different levels, which leads to us perceiving things in this reality as either hard or soft and the various textures that we experience in the world. And when quantum mechanic scientist view these particles and/or waves they affect the outcome simply by observing them... Our collective consciousness affects our collective reality... the link below goes into more details... about this new kind of PUNK SCIENCE
http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/mlaughton.htm

Kon, you are obviously valued and wanted in this thread... ultimately, it's up to you... sometimes it just isn't worth it... sometimes it is...
My boyfriend's family is very religious (christian), from the south, and when I visit with them (I'd be the only person of color in that town), I pray with them, and we chat, and they listen to me, I listen to them, and in the end everyone feels validated and respected. AND THEN I GO HOME! Cause it'd be a whole different story if I had to live with em' day in and out. And even though they voted for G. Bush, and are conservative, we have more in common than someone from a very leftist and very upper middle class background. I can talk to them a whole lot easier.

[roseviolet]

Just wanted to say that I freakin' loooooooove David Attenborough. Thanks for posting one of my favorite quotes from him, DJ.

[zoya]

**de-lurks, just one more quick time**

OMG, I soooo wish altargrrl was still posting here. Does anyone remember her? She was attending seminary school, and yet was also one of the most committed feminists I've met. She was so eloquent about her personal views on / reasons for reconciling her faith with her feminism. Of course, she stopped posting before the lounge got eaten when the server change happened, so none of her really insightful posts exist anymore..

ok, that's all. just sayin.


**re-lurks and goes back to the work she should be doing instead of busting**

[nickclick]

konphusion, i hope you stay. this is a forum for discussion so it's okay to disagree. it's only no good when someone attacks and i don't think that's happened, nor do i hope it does. besides, i admire you for coming in and being open.

like beck, i have a hard time being open to something because 'the bible says so' or that's the 'word from god.' the bible is so vaguely written (and translated) and has been historically interpreted in a million ways. so it's logical to think that any reader would interpret it based on their prejudices, or follow a church that has interpreted it to fit their needs in some part of history. such as, like cocl brings up, catholicism's tight grip on patriarchy. if the pope suddenly says, it's okay for women to become priests, they'll have to re-interpret that part of the bible that says women are only good as baby-making machines. if they admit they were mistaken, their worst fear will happen... their believers will start to question everything.

[crazyoldcatlady]

*also delurking*

this thread is on fire, good reads. thoughts:

-my question is, how do devout feminists reconcile their faith with a decidedly patriarchal church? how does anyone who doesn't swallow religion part-and-parcel reconcile what they feel to be true when it conflicts with what his/her religion says is the Truth?

basically, how does one "not throw out the baby with the bathwater"?

-i liked your thoughts on it, beck. about accepting the good and staying in the fold to initate change from within.

for me, catholicism had too many things that conflicted, and that church is such a Machine, such an Institution, that initiating any change seems hopeless in the face of such stubborness. (is there a word strong than stubborn for that?) i mean, girls couldn't even serve like alterboys until a few years back. because it apparently takes a penis to light some candles? i mean, if they won't let females do that forever, they'll sure as hell never change their position on anything else that i find appalling in my lifetime. i don't have the time to deal with that bullshit when i'd rather put my energy toward things that will make an immediate difference.

/rant

[dj-bizmonkey]

well i hope nobody flames you for THAT zoya, your post is well-written, to the point and spot on. i certainly wasn't hurt by it. i think you bring up a good point. it's very easy for me to get wrapped up in my own leftist bubble, if you will. that's why (kind of keeping to the topic at hand) i get so frustrated by atheists (and i myself am one), for example, who think that badgering and denigrating evangelicals will somehow get their point across better. unfortunately, ultra-liberal, intellectul academics like to look down upon people of faith. they don't give credit to those (and konphusion is one...) religious people who are open, loving, and presumably intelligent enough to make their own desicions about their lives. i think religion gets a bad rap because of people like the phelps family or islamic extremists. it's easy to assume (from an intellectual/academic standpoint) that religious people are just bumpkins who don't know any better and that they don't matter. i'd say that they matter quite a bit (case in point, the 2006 election). that's why, as much as i love Richard Dawkins, i cringe at times when he spars with religious leaders. i don't know if it's because he actually IS really arrogant or because he sounds that way because of his british accent, but it's obvious that these people so infuriate him, he can't treat them as equals. well, to quote another old adage, 'you can win more flies with honey than with vinegar.' i think if you are hoping to open someone up to your ideas, it's best to treat them in a fair and respectful manner. if you aren't willing to listen to them attentively, respectfully and patiently, when why bother having a discussion at all. we certainly don't appreciate it when trolls assault us with bible verses, figuratively yelling in our faces. which is basically the same thing that richard dawkins does at times. i think he's a brilliant scientist, an eloquent speaker, but he is as polarizing as rush limbaugh or anne coulter.

anyhow, i agree, i'm glad that BUST is a progressive place where people of all backgrounds and belief systems can share their viewpoints. i don't think this necessitates a trip to "take it outside", anyone else?

but continuing with the debate. one of my favorite david attenborough quotes (geez, i heart him!) regarding creationism:

"My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy".

read, think about, discuss.......

[zoya]

**de-lurks**

I lurk in this thread a lot - I find the whole discussion fascinating, especially with my catholic upbringing, theological education, subsequent fucking off of the whole thing, and now having my own beliefs & ideas (which I'm not going to go into, because that's not my point)

anyway - I'm realize I'm doing a slight derail, but I just figured I'd post in here, just so it stays self contained.

so - I just want to say that I have quite a bit of respect for the way that Konphusion has tried to be open minded and even about certain discussions. Of course things get heated on all sides... there's a reason for the old adage "never discuss politics, sex, or religion" (ALL, of course, of which we discuss here!! ) because those are topics that pretty much everyone is going to have a passionately different belief on - hell, those things start wars... but having been here for almost 10 years. (yes!) I've seen lots of people come and go, and I think that she has handled herself pretty admirably compared to most who have a more conservative religious outlook than the majority here. From what I've seen in the lounge as a whole, she's admitted when she's been a little over the top or closed minded and attempted to learn. (just as many others of us here do)

In the case of religious beliefs, I'm not saying I agree with her, or that anyone has to - but I don't see why having a bit more of a 'conservative' outlook on religion makes a difference in anyone being here or not. I mean, just because Konphusion's take on the bible may be way different than mine, doesn't mean she doesn't enjoy getting herself off (yeah, I read the sex threads...!!) or having other things in common with the women here. Shit, there are GUYS who post here who have been treated with skepticism (I have been one of the skeptics) at first, and then have been accepted into this community. That's something that I've always loved about this forum - that many people here have different beliefs about things like this, and yet we are all (or try to be) openminded, supportive, and have some common grounds in less 'heated' areas. In all the years I've been here, I've seen people learn a lot about others and themselves, and become more open minded (whatever that means for them), and the ones that don't care to seem to just drift away.

anyway, bizmonkey - this post was sort of prompted by what you wrote earlier - but not directed at you - your response is truly open minded and I applaud you for also keeping a discussion / debate to exactly that - not a fight, as seems to sometimes happen. I think that really embodies what the lounge is to me, at it's best moments.

I may get flamed for this post, but I just felt I had to share.

**ok, derailment over, back to your regularly scheduled thread. in the interest of not derailing thread further, if anyone wants to respond, how 'bout we do it in the "take it outside" thread in 'Ladies Who Lounge'? **

[dj-bizmonkey]

konphusion, even though i don't agree with you on many issues, i would be a giant hypocrite if i was completely closed-minded and unwilling to hear you out. things can get really heated in here at times, and i didn't want us talking ourselves in cirlces. i hope that you continue to enjoy yourself here and that it is an enlightening experience.

ETA: if you want to talk evolution vs. creationsim vs. intelligent design, then bring it on because this biological anthropolgist has no shortage of opinions!
Speaking of which, here is a BBC Horizon (like the UK's version of NOVA) about intelligent design and its legal battles in the USA. although it has a more evolutionary slant, i think they give the proponents of intelligent design a chance to explain their theories. it also features the ever controversial Richard Dawkins and the not so controversial, David Attenborough, who is my hero!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=36...h&plindex=6

i wish i could figure out how to make the link hidden underneath a word like other people do.....

[konphusion26]

yes, agree to disagree. i know that people in your position have very steadfast views, as i do myself, so perhaps we should let this one go before it snowballs. i am curious as to why someone with such seemingly conservative views would be drawn to BUST in the first place. i'm NOT saying that you don't belong here or aren't welcome, because in my mind, you certainly are. i just wonder what attracted you to a liberal, feminist forum.

I would have to definitely go with you on letting it go LOL I just thought this thread was open for discussion - and I like to share my faith as you see, but I guess that didnt go over well here. I didnt know.

I joined the Bust forum initially to talk about some health issues and I stayed in the Our Bodies Our Hells thread forever. Till i started seeing other threads that interested me. I didnt mean to cause a ruckus LOL Or to intrude or impose. Shoot you gals have been most enjoyable to talk to about our common issues and everything. I feel very at home on Bust.

DJ Biz I love ya darlin! but i'm not sure everyone shares your sentiment of me being welcome in here LOL Oh well, such is life. I guess I will not post anything else in the religion thread.. to sensitive of a subject it seems.

ANYWAY LOVE YALL!

[dj-bizmonkey]

agree to disagree, indeed. i do respect the way in which you are able to discuss this issue, konphusion, and i wasn't trying to open up a can of worms. however, i am disheartened by most of what you say. i have two main problems with this line of thinking.

first of all, in the greater scientific and medical community it has been accepted, dare i say proven, that homosexuality is not a choice. it is not a lifestyle, as you put it, but the way you are born. that is why it was removed from the DSM in the 1970's. i believe you DO have a choice about whether or not you have sex at all. you can choose to be celibate or chaste until you are married or in a committed relationship, but a person has zero control over who they are attracted to. i'll buy that your god considers sexual promiscuity a sin, but one specific form of sexuality or another, that i have hard time reconciling. denial and self-delusion are powerful tools, however are dangerous and destructive in the end. which brings me to my second problem. while you may be accepting, loving, non-judgmental etc, there is a large proportion of people that believe the same things that you do, but take it one step further, towards violence. violence perpertrated against innocent people, people who are beaten to death or near death, raped, mutilated and humiliated all because of who they are attracted to, who they fall in love with. it is yet another form of genocide. not only that, but also the violence that homosexuals do to themselves through suicide, drug abuse, self-mutilation, you name it. they suffer from shame, alienation, self-hatred which does NOT come from god, but comes from human beings in their lives who don't understand or are unwilling to try. while you may be an exemplary christian and accept and love all people, i'd say there is an outspoken and aggressive portion of people who simply do not. why would god create a person, give them inborn desires and then no acceptable (i.e. sex is acceptable within the confines of marriage) outlet for them? that makes very little sense to me.

yes, agree to disagree. i know that people in your position have very steadfast views, as i do myself, so perhaps we should let this one go before it snowballs. i am curious as to why someone with such seemingly conservative views would be drawn to BUST in the first place. i'm NOT saying that you don't belong here or aren't welcome, because in my mind, you certainly are. i just wonder what attracted you to a liberal, feminist forum.

[beck]

not had time to look at the video from bizmonkey but i'm bi and catholic (i know, the church as an institution is not a good place for gay people, but i'm more inclined to be inside and hope for change than reject the institution and the people there, but that's another discussion).

Just have to say a few things though:

- i knew my orientation from an early age (and would've come to terms with it a lot sooner had it not been for the corrosive evangelical environment i was raised in during my childhood and teenage years). It might be a choice to have sex but it is not a choice whether to be straight or gay.
- true, having sex is a choice, but the expectation on gay or bi people to be celibate while straight people are allowed to get off to their hearts' content seems a lot to ask.
- a lot of people (and kon i don't mean you here - i know from your posts that this is not your story) seem to project their personal dislike/disgust about the idea of gay sex as evidence that it's wrong. But there are lots of people I would be disgusted if I thought about them having sex - that doesn't mean those people are doing something wrong, it's just not something i need to dwell on. (not to mention the fact that there isn't much about 'gay sex' that straight people don't get up to as well).
- kon, i do think it's relevant that you say 'everything I've ever been taught about God'. On looking at the bibilical texts, there is very little reference to being gay. Jesus does not condemn it. The references in the New Testament are from Paul, who also held the view that women should cover their heads and not speak up in church. And yet, many churches have women in positions of pastoral responsibility, and few practice head-covering. I believe he also said that it was wrong for men to have long hair. If we can accept some of his other pronouncements as part of the cultural context of the age, why is homosexuality such a sticking point?
- The fact is, many of the people who 'teach us about God' are driven by custom, culture and prejudice as much as biblical knowledge. If you believe the bible is truth, cool, but do you also believe the word of those people who work in the church is the absolute truth, or would you accept that as humans, they may be fallible? i would strive to learn more of it without the intermediary of a religious leader/other peoples' theory of the bible.
- If you're looking at the Old Testament, there are many other laws which nobody follows or believes today, for example, the fact that a menstruating woman was so unclean she had to be isolated for a week and be purified before she could join others. Again, we seem pretty good at sifting the relevant from the not-so relevant in most of the Bible - we recognise that it is not a sin to wear clothes of mixed fibres, we don't stone adulters etc. I would argue that people are prevented, by their own prejudices against homosexuality, from applying the same common-sense test here
- finally, if it was that important, mightn't it have been in the Ten Commandments? I would argue that those should be the centrepoint of Christian practice, yet people break them every day with impunity. Do not covet? Who in the Western world can truthfully say that they have never been greedy for more than they truly needed?

[konphusion26]

Oh boy here we go.... We will still agree to disagree till the end of time I guess. All i said initially was I still stand with my beliefs in what the bible says and that it was an interesting video DJ Biz posted for us. This is a whole other can of worms. And ya know what... I still got love for yall.

As I said, GOD does loves EVERYONE no matter what - but He dislikes SIN. As I also said, I USED to be a lesbian, meaning I'm not anymore. Being with a woman does not appeal to me anymore, and I certainly am not still "Whatever I want to call it". I dont "fantasize" about women, I dont get off on thinking about women - but I would be a fool and a liar to sit here and say I dont admire beauty. And people will continue to see the bible as "contradictory".. thats a personal interpretation. But for me, everything in there is God inspired and IS TRUTH. I'm not in here forcing anything on anyone. Every person has the freedom to believe or reject whatever is written there. Its all about free will.

Nick, I must totally agree with you on the fact that we cant help who we love or fall in love with. Falling in love is not a sin. We are human, and we have hearts and a desire to love & be loved. A man having sex with another man or a woman with a woman is a choice though. We can't put that one on God -babies are not born with the ability to identify with Gay or straight that is a choice that is made later on in life. Based everything I've ever been taught about God, I just don't believe that lifestyle is something God approves of Even when I was in it! I dont think He intended for us to be that way. For me, if the Word says its sin, TO ME it is sin... and I'm not just talking about homosexuality- I'm talking a variety of sins. God doesnt like sin period. But I know that God still loves everyone regardless. If He didnt, we'd all be wiped out by now. Thats where His MERCY and GRACE comes in. I mean we could go back and forth all day long on this. Whether its biblical/scripturally based, or scientifically proven/disproven -it doesnt matter. I believe what I believe, yall believe what you believe. I don't have the authority to condemn or judge anyone. Hell I'm very open minded, but I choose to live by my faith. Period.

[neurotic.nelly]

Let's see how to put this.... I am in no way saying I'm personally I have an issue with homosexuality. Let me put that out there first. I cannot judge anyone and LOVE /accept everyone the same- as I would hope they would embrace me.

I used to be a lesbian or bisexual(whatever one would label it). I do believe from my studies, however, that God does not approve of that lifestyle- it clearly states in the bible that it's a sin, and God does not like it. That's what i've read.

Ahhhhhh, let's begin with you used to be a lesbian or bisexual or what else you want to call it... if you still enjoy looking at and can get off on looking at (fantasizing about) beautiful women then you are STILL whatever you want to call it.

The bible does not clearly state a damn thing in my opinion, it is filled with contradictions. Those kinds of images, the hate marches etc., just terrify me bc it reminds me that a lot of people are living in the dark ages tied to beliefs that close them off to the world.

DJ - thanks for posting the link to that movie trailer. It is a really tough situation. My hope is that more people understand that oppression is oppression is oppression is oppression. It does not matter whether it is oppression from another race, or another's attitude, or an economic system - !

I wish I could be funny about this kind of stuff... whatever.

[nickclick]

konphusion, what do you mean by "used to be" lesbian?

it is my belief (and i hate to use that word because it connotes that i feel there is no scientific basis, kind of like the evolution discussion here) that one's sexual identity is not chosen, and that one should not rebel against theirs, but accept it. i don't believe it's a sin for the most basic idea that it's not an action that one chooses to do (or a "lifestyle choice," to put it in conservative terminology). it's a part of a person's identity as much as having brown hair or hating broccoli. murder is a sin because someone chooses to kill someone else. homosexuality is not a sin because we don't choose who we love and/or are sexually attracted to.

so by that rationale, shouldn't god love you for who you are? hair color, sexual identity, and all?

[konphusion26]

Let's see how to put this.... I am in no way saying I'm personally I have an issue with homosexuality. Let me put that out there first. I cannot judge anyone and LOVE /accept everyone the same- as I would hope they would embrace me.

I used to be a lesbian or bisexual(whatever one would label it) about 3 yrs ago DJ-Biz, and still love to look at beautiful women. I still have a Lot of lesbian and homosexual friends to this day, so I definitely accept them for who they are. Who am I to judge otherwise? I want to be accepted just like everyone else. I do believe from my studies, however, that God does not approve of that lifestyle- it clearly states in the bible that it's a sin, and God does not like it. BUT HE LOVES every person- Just not the sins they commit. That's what i've read, that's what I've been taught and that's what I believe. Thats all I meant. I feel its important to make that distinction - God loves us, He hates sin... ALL sin. No matter what, and we have ALL sinned at one point in our lives.

So, to avoid getting "preachy" - I'll end here. But if you have any more questions, I'll be more than happy to chat with ya. Smooches!

[dj-bizmonkey]

and what exactly would those beliefs be, konphusion?

i mean, i gather from this thread that you are christian, but it's obvious from this documentary (and my personal experience) that there are a great wealth of good christian people who have no problem with homosexuality whatsoever. that to me was the most powerful and moving part of the documentary. i especially liked what mike gephart said about the value of unconditional love. i was very moved by the love that these parents, even the very religious ones, had for their children.

i'm not trying to be argumentative, i guess i'd just like you to elaborate a bit further when you say that you are standing by your beliefs about what the bible is, its contexts etc.

i had to share this documentary with my parents as well (my brother is gay). it really helped my dad, who is a very conservative episcopal, to see that his faith and religion were not mutually exclusive with loving AND accepting his son.

[konphusion26]

All I'll say is wow @ that video.... wow- very interesting. I still have to stand with my beliefs in what the bible is, and what it says in its contexts and in its entirety from old testament to new. That is all.


Thanks for sharing DJ-Biz!!!! Very thought provoking.