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> Bacterial Vaginosis--or--embarrassing bad smell
chachaheels
post Nov 5 2006, 04:50 AM
Post #4641


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For what it's worth, and stated purely as a means of public service:

When someone suggests finding alternative medicines to treat a chronic condition which conventional medicine cannot treat, they don't mean "go to the drugstore and see what's labelled "alternative" on the shelves. They mean seek out an experienced, well trained practitioner who uses an alternative medical system which CAN treat your illness. Or, at least, they should mean that.

There is no such thing as just an alternative medicine to treat a particular ailment. There is no such thing as an alternative medicine to treat a chronic disease. No medical substance works that way--you need to undergo a process of treatment and case management, not just a dose or two of some mineral or vegetable substance from a drugstore shelf.

I treat patients with yeast infections, BV, endometriosis, fibroids, hormonal imbalances which directly affect things like BV and yeast all the time with homeopathy. But I treat patients. Not BV, or endo, or fibroids, or hormonally influenced illnesses like yeast (and BV). Those ailments are just a bunch of symptoms, among many, which show me that the patient is expressing that sickness physically (and mentally, too). If I just used one of the medicines I have in my kit to just get rid of the symptoms of BV and nothing else, my patient would (guaranteed) become much sicker--and it might take me years to find out exactly how much sicker, too. If I treat the patient with the right medicines specifically chosen for her case (among which the BV will only be one aspect) then my patient's own body will have everything it needs to get rid of the BV for good, as well as address all the factors (physiological as well as mental/emotional and spiritual too) which made them susceptible to an illness like BV.

If you haven't worked with a practitioner to treat this (not someone who knows about a couple of items you can find in the health food store, but has no real training in any alternative medical system), you haven't tried alternative medicines. You've just gone to the store and picked out supplements or dietary aids like the acidophilus. It is impossible to get results this way.

Making Progress, lactofermented foods of all kinds do much more to support the body's immune system's response and overall health, which creates the conditions by which the body can heal itself. You don't take them as a kind of "natural" anti-biotic, you take them to make the body more effective at doing what it's supposed to do--curing this thing itself. So, yes, Making Progress, there's a ton of science and research (including long term, cross cultural, research--pretty rare in science, but certainly very valuable) to suggest that lactofermented foods are absolutely necessary to achieve and maintain optimum health.

Anti-candida diets, in a word, don't work. They can be helpful for some people in that they temporarily relieve some of the symptoms as long as they're followed religiously, with no deviation; but they don't provide enough nutritional variety to sustain anyone over the long term (and they are untenable, let's face it). If they only work as long as they're followed, they're not curing or treating anything, either; they're just suppressing the illness, and that is never good.

If you're opposed to taking the acidophilus, you can try things like kombucha or kvass--these work very quickly at boosting immune function significantly, and some people prefer them to using acidophilus because they can make them themselves and they taste good.

Perhaps, Making Progress, you get better not from cutting out lactofermented foods but from addressing a deep B vitamin deficiency--lots of people suffer from this and it rarely gets diagnosed. It was a good idea for you to point out the need for B vitamins. I would suggest, however, that since the vast majority of breads which claim to be "whole wheat" on the market are not whole wheat in any way (ever seen how those breads are actually made?), supplementation with injectible or sublingual drops or tablets with B12 and B6 might work better all around.


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May suitable doses of guaranteed sensual pleasure and slow, long-lasting enjoyment preserve us from the contagion of the multitude who mistake frenzy for efficiency.
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autumnbreeze
post Nov 4 2006, 09:23 PM
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"AutumnBreeze – Antibiotics kill off everything good and bad in your body. After they kill off the sickness, they leave you susceptible to anything that can take hold. Yeast is not the only thing, but do you see the connection? If you kill off the bacteria, the yeast takes over. If there is no yeast, you get BV"

Making Progress: Thanks for your feedback. I do understand the distinct differences between a yeast infection and BV...trust me. I also understand antibiotics and how it's all connected. However, I do not believe that an absence of yeast (after antibiotics) causes BV. If we knew exactly what causes BV (aka, the PH imbalance), we wouldn't be here in this forum! I wish I could definitively blame it all on antibiotics but that would oversimplify this complex condition and insult the intelligence of many. I think different people respond to different treatments/regimens in various ways. For instance, some women are given metrogel for BV one time and is rid of it forever. Others are not so lucky. I recently began using probiotics (to include acidophilus) and that has helped my symptoms significantly. But I will keep the folic acid and wheat bread in mind for future reference.
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Eralc Alegna
post Nov 4 2006, 10:31 AM
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I just started trying probiotics orally each morning and vaginally every night with some peroxide during the day. I'm hoping this will work since the peroxide isn't supposed to affect the good bacteria biut kill off the bad. I don't know how it would work with boric, you'll just have to wait and see. I quit taking it since I was using it for about a month.

Klee - when you do the peroxide washes, how much peroxide are you using? Before I was just letting 10ml run out using a syringe 3x. All the articles say to use 30 ml so i tried doing the shower/prop myself up/hold it in thing for 3 minutes, but it was way too much. I couldn't take all that in and a lot went to waste. now i'm doing between 10 and 20 ml...
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pympmama1
post Nov 4 2006, 02:19 AM
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Has anyone tried the hydrogen peroxide and boric acid... in rotation of each other..... example ... every night the HP and then once a week the boric acid.... The boric acid does work ... but only until that time of the month.... and then the smell returns I was think of mixing the two regimes and seeing if it works..... any feed back would be helpful
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klee
post Nov 4 2006, 12:08 AM
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That's interesting about the lacto-fermented foods and acidophilus. Mainly because I always noticed that my bv would get worse, never better if I started a regimen of acidophilus. I stopped doing this about 6 months ago. If I think back on things, I started eating yogurt religiously about 3 years ago and this is about how long I've been dealing with bv. I also read somewhere that folic acid is supposed to assist in clearing up bv but haven't tried it.

The thing is that everything I read regarding vaginal health indicates that yogurt is beneficial. I mean, how can EVERYONE be wrong???
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Making Progress
post Nov 3 2006, 11:23 PM
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I have had BV on and off for almost four years. I first got BV after I took some antibiotics. I am now 37. I have tried all the medications. They failed miserably. In fact, my symptoms got worse after using them. My doctor refused to try anymore of them on me and encouraged me to try alternative medicines. I couldn’t find any alternative medicines for this because everyone seems to have this condition mixed up with yeast infections.

AutumnBreeze – Antibiotics kill off everything good and bad in your body. After they kill off the sickness, they leave you susceptible to anything that can take hold. Yeast is not the only thing, but do you see the connection? If you kill off the bacteria, the yeast takes over. If there is no yeast, you get BV.

Chachaheels – There is no harm in eliminating lacto-fermented foods for two to four weeks to see if your BV symptoms are reduced. Your body does not require it. Lacto fermented foods have only been around for about 2,000 years. I don’t eat it, and I don’t get sick that often. When I did take it for yeast infections years ago, I got sick more often. I don’t think it was because of the acidophilus, but I don’t agree that it helped prevent sickness that much. Acidophilus can help though if you have a problem with Candida. When I was in my 20s I used to get yeast infections often, and the doctor was very clear about not eating bread, vinegar or yeast. Why can’t the opposite be true when you lack the normal amount of yeast in your pap? If you don’t like wheat, then go for an alternative grain bread. I don’t mean that you should eat processed bread. The bread I eat contains little more than wheat, yeast, eggs, and water.

Here are four key points that have been consistent for me over the past four years:

1. When I eat lacto-fermented foods or take acidophilus capsules, my symptoms get dramatically worse within 24 hours.
2. When I make sure I eat two slices of bread a day, my symptoms get better.
3. When I remember to take folic acid, my symptoms get better.
4. When I avoid acidophilus, eat bread, and take folic acid everyday, I have no symptoms at all! That’s about all the proof I need. I encourage everyone to try it.



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Making Progress
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sassy
post Nov 2 2006, 09:58 PM
Post #4647


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Posts: 398
From: The South


Hey guys...I work at a hospital, doing PR, and this was on our intranet this morning:

Generic Metronidazole Approved
WEDNESDAY, Nov. 1 (HealthDay News) -- The first generic version of MetroGel-Vaginal (metronidazole vaginal gel) has been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to treat bacterial vaginosis, the agency said Wednesday.
The condition, caused by an overgrowth of vaginal bacteria, may be accompanied by symptoms including discharge, odor, pain, itching or burning, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) says. It's the most common vaginal infection among women of childbearing age.
MetroGel-Vaginal is produced by 3M Co.; license to produce the generic equivalent was granted to Colorado-based QLT USA Inc.
Generic drugs, now used to fill more than 50 percent of all prescriptions, can cost a fraction of the price of their brand-name equivalents, the FDA said. "Consumers and health professionals can be assured that an approved generic drug is bioequivalent to the brand-name drug and is its equal in dosage, form, strength, and route of administration, quality, performance characteristics, and intended use," the agency said.


Just thought I would show it to you all. At least it will be cheaper now!
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chachaheels
post Nov 2 2006, 04:53 PM
Post #4648


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That's good to hear, Svea. It's also great to hear that doctors are quite often becoming more and more interested in using treatments their patients say work, and work well. Especially when those treatments are quite old, and often an old fashioned or even homeopathic treatment. It must mean that they're hearing good things from many of their patients.

I think everyone will have an individual response to the boric acid--like Svea, tried to do 14 days but felt an irritation, so she stopped--and that was all she needed. It does say in my materia medica reference that it can irritate, so if you come at all close to feeling that after a period of time when the boric acid seems to work, just stop using it (that's when you know you've had enough). As for the discharge, don't just expect it, think of it as a positive sign that something is being resolved in there. If there weren't any waste from the disinfecting nature of the boric acid, there wouldn't be anything to get rid of, so the discharge should tell you it's working.


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May suitable doses of guaranteed sensual pleasure and slow, long-lasting enjoyment preserve us from the contagion of the multitude who mistake frenzy for efficiency.
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Svea
post Nov 2 2006, 03:56 PM
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More success with Boric Acid:
I had a ceasarian section and there was a bit of membrane (the sack that surrounds the baby) left in. It eventually came out (not nice!) and the result was some strange new bacterial world in my privates.

I did 2 rounds of Flagystatin cream (flagyl plus nystatin (an anti-yeast)). Each round was 7 days.
Each round worked but the symptoms came back, although not as bad.

After this, I did a lot of reading and decided to try the Boric Acid treatment.
It seems to really work.
Just go to a pharmacist and get them to prepare the capsules for you.
You need 600 mg of Boric acid in each. This seemed to be the most commonly recommended
amount after reviewing various medical sites & studies.
I used 1 every night for 10 nights. I was trying for 14 nights but there is a slight irritation
factor that was too much for me. This irritation went away a day after stopping.

The only side effect was the irritation after a few days, and copious discharge.
Be prepared for that!
(I only did one per night, many sites including the American Academy of Family Physicians, recommend
one at night and one in the morning. For me this would be too irritating)

If you find that your symptoms come back, at the first sign just pop in a boric acid
capsule that same night.

Anyways, I hope this helps some one out there.
Cheers to all!
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jewelscando
post Nov 1 2006, 08:36 PM
Post #4650


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Ok Ladies!!! I went back to my doctor today, AND GUESS WHAT?? They said the rash IS NOT FROM THE BORIC ACID. Both the doctors in the office are extremely interested in the Boric and asked me all kinds of questions about it. My doctor did a bunch of research on it these last two weeks and is excited about what it can do. She said, "I've heard of Boric Acid to kill roaches, but not for the VAGINA"!! biggrin.gif

She also gave me some natural things to use like Vaginal Lactobacillus Acidophilus, which I told her we've already tried.

She did not want to do the Estrogen test, because she said I'm to young. She said most women will go through menopause around the same time that their mothers did. She also said that the test they do for Estrogen level is difficult to determine, when you have periods, and even harder when you don't. She didn't think it was an issue.

They are still confused about the rash. The blood work came back that I have a high level of whatever it is that is in your system causing alergies. (Sorry ladies, can't remember the word). They have also sent me for more lab work to test me for West Nile Virus. They gave me a steriod cream for my arm that I'm to use for 5 days only. IT'S ALREADY WORKING.

I've been off Boric now for a month and a half. I'm ready to go back on it, however, my smell is gone. I read somewhere that sometimes if you leave it alone, it will heal on it's own. Obviously, mine heals, but always comes back. It's the coming back that I'm trying to get a handle on.


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sassy
post Nov 1 2006, 08:05 PM
Post #4651


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From: The South


I finally went to the doctor for my rash on my legs that I thought could be related to boric acid use but he told me my hair folicles were infected. AND guess what he prescribed me??? Cleocin cream to rub on my legs! I've used it in my vagina for BV...geez.
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i_hate_sports
post Nov 1 2006, 06:01 PM
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New Poll Question:

In what was does having BV effect (affect?) your life? Do you not do certain normal everyday activities because of BV? How has it effected your relationship with your SO? How has it effected your sex life? Do other people know about it? Do strangers notice it?

My answers: It hasn't effected my regular life in a huge way because my main problem is discharge, not smell. I still do all my normal activities I just have to change my underwear like 3 times a day. My husband has to hear me complaining and being upset about it but he is still supportive. Right now intercourse is on hold indefinitely until I figure out if the last treatment of Cleocin worked or not. I do feel kind of gross about it when we are having sex but he wouldn't have known if I hadn't told him and he isn't bothered by it. I have told a handful of people about it for support or information. Strangers do not notice anything.

Sara
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autumnbreeze
post Nov 1 2006, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE(neverending @ Nov 1 2006, 12:52 PM) *

Ladies:
If anyone lives in the Atlanta, ga area and are interested in getting together to discuss our problems and support each other through these hard times please let me or latinrican know. smile.gif
Please do not give out personal information(phone numbers) on this forum because we all know their are fruit cakes out there.Just e-mail us!


I don't have a problem with that.
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neverending
post Nov 1 2006, 10:35 AM
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I'm not familiar with Lithonia. My husband and I are looking to move to Duluth, Ga within the next 6mos. I love Atlanta! Many, many, many opportunities! If I did'nt have cooch problems I would be at every concert, every mall, park, and even that new aquarium, but the cooch keeps me from doing the things that I love. I wish I could walk past someone with confidence.Maybe one day! LOL

Ladies:
If anyone lives in the Atlanta, ga area and are interested in getting together to discuss our problems and support each other through these hard times please let me or latinrican know. smile.gif
Please do not give out personal information(phone numbers) on this forum because we all know their are fruit cakes out there.Just e-mail us!
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latinrican
post Nov 1 2006, 10:00 AM
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I am totally for that... I live in the east side of the town... in Lithonia.
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neverending
post Nov 1 2006, 09:49 AM
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latinrican,Autumbreeze and anybody else that lives close to the Atlanta, Ga area:
We should all get together at a coffee shop or something and discuss all the remedies we have tried. It would be support/ therapy for us!
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latinrican
post Nov 1 2006, 08:11 AM
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Autumbreeze.... thank you soooooooooo much for finding that doctor. I, too , live in Atlanta so I'll definitely be checking him out.
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autumnbreeze
post Nov 1 2006, 06:33 AM
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Making Progress: I won't speak for everyone else, only for myself. I definitely know the difference between BV and a Yeast Infection. The yeast infection comes after taking the antibiotics the docs give you for BV and it is usually cleared up very easily.
There is a separate thread on yeast infections from hell smile.gif

I see that you're new here. Going back a few pages, everyone just recently shared their BV "history" since there are many new people and I guess we wanted to pinpoint any similarities. If you don't mind, please share what you think initially caused your BV (birth control, new partner, antibiotics, etc.), what you've taken for BV, do you currently have symptoms (if so, what are they) and if you no longer have BV, PLEASE tell us how you got rid of it.
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chachaheels
post Nov 1 2006, 04:29 AM
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I agree with you MP, but there's no reason to stop eating lactofermented foods like sour cream and yogurt. These do far more in the body to sustain health than just keep yeast microorganisms at bay, so they do provide necessaries you can't get from anything else. A big part of what they do is help us process and absorb nutrients from all our foods.

And yes, yeast does exist in the body naturally, but it can overgrow. From my experience, eating bread isn't going to have any kind of effect on this one way or the other except that most breads are so highly processed and so nutrient deficient (yup, even the "whole wheat" kind which really is nothing of the sort) that if you eat enough of them you'll basically deprive your body of really essential nutrient stores, and that brings about problems too numerous to list here.

As I said earlier, BV is way more than just the lack of/proliferation of particular microbes. Something has to create the conditions for those microbes to be present; a big part of the solution is finding out what creates that condition of susceptibility. The microbes are never the cause of that, they are just a sign that susceptibility exists.

I definitely second the folic acid, though, and all B vitamins in general--trouble is, the only kind worth spending any money on comes in an injectible form (along with methylcobalamin B12). It's not as good, but you can find a sublingual dose form of the B12/folic acid that you must take every day. Fortunately, an even better way to get folic acid is through your food. Some examples of foods containing folic acid include brussels sprouts, broccoli, black eyed peas and other beans, papaya, eggs, and fat rich fishes like salmon.


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May suitable doses of guaranteed sensual pleasure and slow, long-lasting enjoyment preserve us from the contagion of the multitude who mistake frenzy for efficiency.
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Making Progress
post Oct 31 2006, 09:54 PM
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I have found a few things that I want to share with everyone here. I am pretty sure it will help some. I have had this problem for about 3 years and I'm 37.

The first thing you've got to realize is that if you have been diagnosed with BV with no yeast, you should not think of this as a yeast infection. You might even think of this as the opposite of a yeast infection. Candida is not a healthy yeast, but all of our bodies have some yeast. Some yeast is healthy. Your vagina needs to have a healthy balance of acidophilus (bacteria) and yeast (not Candida). (Forgive me health professional if I over simplify.)

So your problem is not about consuming yeast - in-fact have a couple slices of whole wheat bread a day. Some other foods that can help are wine and vinegar, BUT DON'T PUT THEM DIRECTLY IN YOUR VAGINA!!! You'll kill off all the good and bad in there and you'll have a bigger problem.

Don't eat yogurt, or sour cream and don't take acidophilus. You already have enough good bacteria, that is the problem.

Take folic acid. I take twice the recommended daily allowance. The body doesn't store it, but apparently you can overdo it so don't take more than that.


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