[Svea]

More success with Boric Acid:
I had a ceasarian section and there was a bit of membrane (the sack that surrounds the baby) left in. It eventually came out (not nice!) and the result was some strange new bacterial world in my privates.

I did 2 rounds of Flagystatin cream (flagyl plus nystatin (an anti-yeast)). Each round was 7 days.
Each round worked but the symptoms came back, although not as bad.

After this, I did a lot of reading and decided to try the Boric Acid treatment.
It seems to really work.
Just go to a pharmacist and get them to prepare the capsules for you.
You need 600 mg of Boric acid in each. This seemed to be the most commonly recommended
amount after reviewing various medical sites & studies.
I used 1 every night for 10 nights. I was trying for 14 nights but there is a slight irritation
factor that was too much for me. This irritation went away a day after stopping.

The only side effect was the irritation after a few days, and copious discharge.
Be prepared for that!
(I only did one per night, many sites including the American Academy of Family Physicians, recommend
one at night and one in the morning. For me this would be too irritating)

If you find that your symptoms come back, at the first sign just pop in a boric acid
capsule that same night.

Anyways, I hope this helps some one out there.
Cheers to all!

[jewelscando]

Ok Ladies!!! I went back to my doctor today, AND GUESS WHAT?? They said the rash IS NOT FROM THE BORIC ACID. Both the doctors in the office are extremely interested in the Boric and asked me all kinds of questions about it. My doctor did a bunch of research on it these last two weeks and is excited about what it can do. She said, "I've heard of Boric Acid to kill roaches, but not for the VAGINA"!!

She also gave me some natural things to use like Vaginal Lactobacillus Acidophilus, which I told her we've already tried.

She did not want to do the Estrogen test, because she said I'm to young. She said most women will go through menopause around the same time that their mothers did. She also said that the test they do for Estrogen level is difficult to determine, when you have periods, and even harder when you don't. She didn't think it was an issue.

They are still confused about the rash. The blood work came back that I have a high level of whatever it is that is in your system causing alergies. (Sorry ladies, can't remember the word). They have also sent me for more lab work to test me for West Nile Virus. They gave me a steriod cream for my arm that I'm to use for 5 days only. IT'S ALREADY WORKING.

I've been off Boric now for a month and a half. I'm ready to go back on it, however, my smell is gone. I read somewhere that sometimes if you leave it alone, it will heal on it's own. Obviously, mine heals, but always comes back. It's the coming back that I'm trying to get a handle on.

[sassy]

I finally went to the doctor for my rash on my legs that I thought could be related to boric acid use but he told me my hair folicles were infected. AND guess what he prescribed me??? Cleocin cream to rub on my legs! I've used it in my vagina for BV...geez.

[i_hate_sports]

New Poll Question:

In what was does having BV effect (affect?) your life? Do you not do certain normal everyday activities because of BV? How has it effected your relationship with your SO? How has it effected your sex life? Do other people know about it? Do strangers notice it?

My answers: It hasn't effected my regular life in a huge way because my main problem is discharge, not smell. I still do all my normal activities I just have to change my underwear like 3 times a day. My husband has to hear me complaining and being upset about it but he is still supportive. Right now intercourse is on hold indefinitely until I figure out if the last treatment of Cleocin worked or not. I do feel kind of gross about it when we are having sex but he wouldn't have known if I hadn't told him and he isn't bothered by it. I have told a handful of people about it for support or information. Strangers do not notice anything.

Sara

[autumnbreeze]

Ladies:
If anyone lives in the Atlanta, ga area and are interested in getting together to discuss our problems and support each other through these hard times please let me or latinrican know.
Please do not give out personal information(phone numbers) on this forum because we all know their are fruit cakes out there.Just e-mail us!

I don't have a problem with that.

[neverending]

I'm not familiar with Lithonia. My husband and I are looking to move to Duluth, Ga within the next 6mos. I love Atlanta! Many, many, many opportunities! If I did'nt have cooch problems I would be at every concert, every mall, park, and even that new aquarium, but the cooch keeps me from doing the things that I love. I wish I could walk past someone with confidence.Maybe one day! LOL

Ladies:
If anyone lives in the Atlanta, ga area and are interested in getting together to discuss our problems and support each other through these hard times please let me or latinrican know.
Please do not give out personal information(phone numbers) on this forum because we all know their are fruit cakes out there.Just e-mail us!

[latinrican]

I am totally for that... I live in the east side of the town... in Lithonia.

[neverending]

latinrican,Autumbreeze and anybody else that lives close to the Atlanta, Ga area:
We should all get together at a coffee shop or something and discuss all the remedies we have tried. It would be support/ therapy for us!

[latinrican]

Autumbreeze.... thank you soooooooooo much for finding that doctor. I, too , live in Atlanta so I'll definitely be checking him out.

[autumnbreeze]

Making Progress: I won't speak for everyone else, only for myself. I definitely know the difference between BV and a Yeast Infection. The yeast infection comes after taking the antibiotics the docs give you for BV and it is usually cleared up very easily.
There is a separate thread on yeast infections from hell

I see that you're new here. Going back a few pages, everyone just recently shared their BV "history" since there are many new people and I guess we wanted to pinpoint any similarities. If you don't mind, please share what you think initially caused your BV (birth control, new partner, antibiotics, etc.), what you've taken for BV, do you currently have symptoms (if so, what are they) and if you no longer have BV, PLEASE tell us how you got rid of it.

[chachaheels]

I agree with you MP, but there's no reason to stop eating lactofermented foods like sour cream and yogurt. These do far more in the body to sustain health than just keep yeast microorganisms at bay, so they do provide necessaries you can't get from anything else. A big part of what they do is help us process and absorb nutrients from all our foods.

And yes, yeast does exist in the body naturally, but it can overgrow. From my experience, eating bread isn't going to have any kind of effect on this one way or the other except that most breads are so highly processed and so nutrient deficient (yup, even the "whole wheat" kind which really is nothing of the sort) that if you eat enough of them you'll basically deprive your body of really essential nutrient stores, and that brings about problems too numerous to list here.

As I said earlier, BV is way more than just the lack of/proliferation of particular microbes. Something has to create the conditions for those microbes to be present; a big part of the solution is finding out what creates that condition of susceptibility. The microbes are never the cause of that, they are just a sign that susceptibility exists.

I definitely second the folic acid, though, and all B vitamins in general--trouble is, the only kind worth spending any money on comes in an injectible form (along with methylcobalamin B12). It's not as good, but you can find a sublingual dose form of the B12/folic acid that you must take every day. Fortunately, an even better way to get folic acid is through your food. Some examples of foods containing folic acid include brussels sprouts, broccoli, black eyed peas and other beans, papaya, eggs, and fat rich fishes like salmon.

[Making Progress]

I have found a few things that I want to share with everyone here. I am pretty sure it will help some. I have had this problem for about 3 years and I'm 37.

The first thing you've got to realize is that if you have been diagnosed with BV with no yeast, you should not think of this as a yeast infection. You might even think of this as the opposite of a yeast infection. Candida is not a healthy yeast, but all of our bodies have some yeast. Some yeast is healthy. Your vagina needs to have a healthy balance of acidophilus (bacteria) and yeast (not Candida). (Forgive me health professional if I over simplify.)

So your problem is not about consuming yeast - in-fact have a couple slices of whole wheat bread a day. Some other foods that can help are wine and vinegar, BUT DON'T PUT THEM DIRECTLY IN YOUR VAGINA!!! You'll kill off all the good and bad in there and you'll have a bigger problem.

Don't eat yogurt, or sour cream and don't take acidophilus. You already have enough good bacteria, that is the problem.

Take folic acid. I take twice the recommended daily allowance. The body doesn't store it, but apparently you can overdo it so don't take more than that.

[autumnbreeze]

neverending: Good luck with the Estriol. I am also done with the hormonal birth control. Although I was not taking it when BV first appeared, I still think it can do more harm than good and make you more prone to having "female" problems. And notice how the doctors love to push whatever the "new" product is. That's how I ended up on Yasmin! My doctor gave me enough samples for six months. After the samples were gone, I stopped, and never got the prescription filled. My first experience with BC was the Depo Provera shot. I was eighteen and I gained about 35 lbs from that sh&%# in three months time. That should've been my cue to leave all of it alone.

[neverending]

autumnbreeze:I'm only 2 hours away from Atlanta,Ga. I will give him a try because I don't want to have to use birth control. I'm married and I am ready for children!

Ladies:Doctor called and told me he was not going to give me the estrogen treatment.I asked why and he said I am too young to be having problems like this.You know what? I completely give up on doctors PERIOD! I don't think they want us to get rid of this problem because they profit off of it.So, with that being said; I ordered some estroil vaginal suppositories (the plant form) and I am going to give it a try.Wish me luck!

Estriol Helps Maintain Healthy Vaginal Tissue

Vaginal dryness and atrophy, urinary frequency, and repeat urinary tract infections are problems that many women experience during perimenopause, menopause, and other periods of estrogen decline. These symptoms occur because falling estrogen levels can lead to thinning of the vaginal and urethral tissue.

Estriol has a very robust local effect on the many estrogen receptors in these tissues and can be useful in reducing vaginal dryness and thickening skin and mucosa in a matter of a few days or weeks. Studies show estriol also lowers vaginal pH, promoting a healthy environment for the growth of protective flora, which may then help prevent urinary tract infections. Most often, a small amount of estriol in an individually compounded cream or suppository is prescribed for use two or three times a week.

[autumnbreeze]

Hello Ladies,

Just wanted to give an update. My symptoms have improved tremendously. The discharge is very light (I no longer have to wear a pantiliner overnight) and the smell has dropped from a solid 8 to about a 3. I can't tell you how excited I am!! You have to understand that until a few weeks ago, I thought I would have to walk around smelling like sardines for the rest of my life. Currently, I am only taking probiotics once a day. I will probably do a montly hydrogen peroxide douche for maintenance. It's too soon to claim victory over BV but atleast I see that it can be controlled.

Also, for those of you here in the Atlanta area..I was browsing over the weekend and came across some info on a doctor who specializes in Holistic Gynecology. He is a doctor of osteopathy certified in gynecology and holistic medicine. His name is Richard J. Clofine, D.O. The center is called Integrated Medical Center 770-390-0012.


Eralc Alegna: I agree with you..we are desparate. Most of us have been dealing with this for years and the doctors just keep writing scripts for antibiotics. If they aren't getting any money or kickbacks, they are NOT going to refer you to holistic practitioners or suggest you seek alternative medicines. Hell, I just recently learned (on my own) about probiotics and the purpose they serve! My docs had been giving me antibiotics but never once suggested probiotics to keep the subsequent yeast infections away. Overall I think we have to be careful, educate ourselves, and not be afraid to "think outside the box" because no one is going to take your health as serious as you.

[chachaheels]

Well, I used to think it was hard to find alternative medical practitioners, but we are out there and there are many schools in North America which offer the comprehensive courses needed to become well trained. It's just like any other medicine: if your doctor is not taking your seriously, or doesn't seem to be knowledgeable about treatments that are out there--YOU have to go out and find another doctor. If you find conventional medicine doesn't work, then really you must take responsibility for your health and learn about alternatives. Then you have to seek out someone who can work with you--and that will take just as much effort as it would to work with a conventional MD. Being desperate is just one more reason to be careful about treatments out there and how to use them properly. Why put your health in jeopardy any further if you say you're trying to improve it?

Here's a site with listings of homeopathic doctors in North America--find your state and see who's doing what; also click on the link which tells you what the accreditations behind peoples' names mean. This is NASH's site--it lists classical homeopaths.
www.homeopathy-cures.com

To find a naturopath in your area, I googled "regulatory bodies naturopathic medicine in the us" and selected a link to Wikipedia's page on naturopathy. Under a subheading on that page reading "Regulation in North America, there are a series of links for each state and province where naturopaths practice. Click on one of those links, contact the body in your area, and then call each individual practitioner and shop around. Ask about what to expect in treatment, in the first consult, what the rates are, what each practitioner's specialty treatment method is, etc. etc. Try to get a feel for these people as docs before you commit to a first consultation; if you find someone who works well with you and is open to you (and you'll know in that first conversation) consider working with that person.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Nat...n_North_America

For what it's worth, wikipedia's basic information on alternative medicine is very poor, or at least, sorely lacking--so ask these referral organizations to recommend some educational materials to you if you want to know more about the kind of medicine this is.

In any case, self-treating is just a bad idea. Avoid it whenever possible, and seriously learn to question anyone who tells you to take natural or other kinds of drugs to treat chronic disease on your own. They do not have your best interests at heart.

As for the whole veggie issue--I never said eating meat will cure your BV. I did say, however, that nutritional treatment options do, in fact, exist, for the treatment and cure of BV; and that vegetarianism should be well-researched before it is undertaken.

It's absolutely true that if you don't eat the right fats in your diet, you WILL alter your hormone balance (hormones are basically fats and protein, after all--so if you don't have the right fats and amino acids going in, you'll hardly have what you need to make and balance them healthily). Most of the fats necessary happen to be saturated animal fats, and many of the vital amino acids you need can only be found in animal proteins: however, I DID also mention that you can use a vegetable fat that comes close (there is only one, after all, which can almost mimick animal fats) and supplement like crazy if you want to be vegetarian and successfully treat BV with nutrition.

One last thing: The Indian women you mention, as an example, have plenty of access to, and use a great deal of tropical fats (coconuts, palm oils, etc) and they eat milk products like butter and cheese and lacto-fermented food--which contains so many of the enzymes and saturated fats needed for nutrient absorption. The vegetarianism practiced there is quite different from what people eat here, where people erroneously cut these foods out of the diet because they've been misinformed about the body's biological need for fats.

I also said vegetarianism is not for everyone. Some people will be great if they educate themselves thoroughly and follow a diet plan without meat foods. Some people will not be, no matter what kind of supplementation procedure they follow. That said, a vegetarian diet doesn't necessarily mean a healthier diet. You can have an extremely healthy omnivorous diet as well, and you can have an amazingly effective curative omnivorous diet too. It all depends on the individual and on the diet's quality. It's just not that cut and dry to declare vegetarian healthier than ominivorous.

[pianogirl]

While I agree with chachaheels about doing a lot of research before becoming vegetarian, I disagree strongly about craving meat. I have been vegetarian for 7 years and I occasionally still smell meat and think, "that smells good." When you give something up, of course you will occasionally miss it. I would NEVER touch the stuff again, however...anyone who thinks meat is healthier than a vegetarian diet needs to take a look at what goes into the "production" of meat at factory farms. And yes, I'm sure that there are some animals that are treated well before slaughter but the majority of meat is horrible for you due to anti-biotics fed to the animals, which by the way causes humans to be less reactive to anti-biotics in medicine. I don't think there is a connection to BV and vegetarianism...I've never noticed a difference in my symptoms due to the food I eat.

And cravings are just cravings. I crave junk food sometimes but it doesn't mean it's good for my body.

Hi Sassy,

I am with you on this one. I have been a vegetarian for 13 years and have no desire whatsoever to consume meat. I strongly disagree to vegetarianism and bv being linked, my diet is not the issue as I eat very healthy I believe the BC pills threw me off balance. I will never integrate meat into my diet, a few years back my mother cooked pasta and I ate it thinking it was plain marinara sauce needless to say I started throwing up and she couldnt understand why until she read the label and the sauce contained meat sources. I will never forget that I think eating meat or integrating meat would do more damage than good for those who have been vegetarians for a long amount of time. Also what about my coworkers whom are Hindus and believe the Cow is sacred. They dont eat meat and never have nor will as it is against their beliefs I am sure that some women (hindus etc) get bv and meat is not incorporated into their diet to heal their disease.


Thanks,

PG

I think I can speak for everyone in this instance by saying, "BECAUSE WE'RE DESPERATE!" when nothing else has worked, doctors quit trying and caring and keep jamming the same counter productive crap down our throats, any alternate approach seems appealing. and it's not easy to find a naturopath or herbalist in your backyard, or one you can afford.
on that note, I'm in the US. Midwest to be more specific. Is there an organization or website i can go to you know of to find a naturopath in my area?

And out of curiosity, anyone come across a study of women on the pill or hormonal BC and rates of BV before and after? or women who take BC vs. women who don't and the rates of infection? If not someone should...

Hi I haave read that BC pills makes you more suceptable to infections because it alters your hormones. However I read so many things that I cant remember where I read that from. I agree we are all desperate and frustrated, the doctors have given up and some don't even listen. When I told my doctor when this problem started happening, I was on Seasonale and was experiencing alot of breakthrough bleeding she said "Oh when you stop taking the birth control your body goes back to normal." She basically dismissed whatever I had to say, they mostly do. I found a holistic doctor whom I spoke with and she said BC pills alters hormones and thats maybe my issue. She did say it is also diet but my diet has been the same for many years. Also she said it could be stress so there are many factors becuase I guess it would be fair to say that we are all different. She did say much of time the cause of this is hormones so we will see what is my case. In any event I will let you girls know in about two weeks as I will meet her in two weeks (that was her only appt. available).

Thanks

[Eralc Alegna]

I don't know what it is that makes people think they can self-treat with any drug, pharmaceutical or "natural".

I think I can speak for everyone in this instance by saying, "BECAUSE WE'RE DESPERATE!" when nothing else has worked, doctors quit trying and caring and keep jamming the same counter productive crap down our throats, any alternate approach seems appealing. and it's not easy to find a naturopath or herbalist in your backyard, or one you can afford.
on that note, I'm in the US. Midwest to be more specific. Is there an organization or website i can go to you know of to find a naturopath in my area?

And out of curiosity, anyone come across a study of women on the pill or hormonal BC and rates of BV before and after? or women who take BC vs. women who don't and the rates of infection? If not someone should...

[chachaheels]

Oh, I agree that meat is badly raised. However, there is another political issue that falls in with the eating of meat, and of our access to good food which does not contain additives and practices which make huge corporations wealthy while we suffer healthwise. If you're a vegetarian because most meat is horrific as a result of livestock rearing practices, chemicals, drugs, hormones,and poisons used in their production, then your complaint is with the way things are done in agribusiness, not with the food itself.

There are millions of small scale, organic, free range farmers who are trying their damnedest to restore our access to the foods we need, raised without all the crap agribusinesses and huge conglomerates like monsanto, ADM, and cargill are allowed to do to our food. We would all be a lot better off--healthwise, politically, and socially if we supported these local food producers and stopped buying so much of the mass produced and mass marketed stuff that is forced on us. And don't stop at meat, milk, and eggs: strongly think about supporting organic farmers who grow vegetable crops as well. If you can't find organic farmers locally (many can't afford to "pay" for the certification papers, but they follow the rules anyway) you should still try and support local producers as much as possible. If you know who's grown your food, and how they've done it, you have a great deal more control over what goes into your food and what stays out of it than you would if you went to the grocery store and paid a ton of money for produce that's GMO, gassed or irradiated, chemically treated with stuff you can't wash off ever, and then delivered to your mass marketing grocer from thousands of miles away.

Vegetarianism should never be about "cutting foods out" of the diet: it really ought to be about adding a large variety of vegetable foods TO the diet. And yes, you must supplement--B vitamins, saturated fats (the best one is cocoanut oil, it's the only source that comes close to what you need to get from animal fats) and finding suitable, safe versions of the high quality, high quantity vitamin A and D that only comes from animal organ meats. You will not be able to actually utilize the nutrients without the saturated fats to enable these chemical reactions to take place, so you must make arrangements to supplement well--and you need to do some indepth research to find out what those nutrients are.

I was a vegetarian for 13 years and couldn't figure out why I was eating "healthy", yet getting sicker, and heavier, all the time. I never craved meat foods, but I always missed seafoods. All I had to do to stop a lot of the damage I was doing was eat one or two meals featuring fish a week--and supplement with cod liver oil, but I had no idea at the time.

If you have any kind of craving, there is a bona fide physiological need for it, even if it is junk food you crave (don't think for a minute that people don't need the highly refined sugars--possibly not for the best reasons, but reasons none the less. If you doubt this in any way, keep in mind that plain white sugar was used as a medicinal drug for hundreds of years before we started abusing it liberally--it has very specific physiological effects on the body which can help or hinder). You might not be able to get what you need in the very best form, but rest assured, you need that substance.

[sassy]

While I agree with chachaheels about doing a lot of research before becoming vegetarian, I disagree strongly about craving meat. I have been vegetarian for 7 years and I occasionally still smell meat and think, "that smells good." When you give something up, of course you will occasionally miss it. I would NEVER touch the stuff again, however...anyone who thinks meat is healthier than a vegetarian diet needs to take a look at what goes into the "production" of meat at factory farms. And yes, I'm sure that there are some animals that are treated well before slaughter but the majority of meat is horrible for you due to anti-biotics fed to the animals, which by the way causes humans to be less reactive to anti-biotics in medicine. I don't think there is a connection to BV and vegetarianism...I've never noticed a difference in my symptoms due to the food I eat.

And cravings are just cravings. I crave junk food sometimes but it doesn't mean it's good for my body.