[tatina]

Helloo-oooo! Byklhermit! I have never said anything here was "totally judgemental" or called anyone a "catty bitch". I have also not complained - I raised a question for discussion. It could be helpful if you would actually read the threads before you turn them into a Grimms fairytale. Basically, my dear, I am simply not interested in treating people with such negativity and I have been on enough forums where this kind of communication was going on. It is unkind, rude and it will take us nowhere. Where's the fun?

Amalita, I am not talking about your PERSONAL PAST or psychoanalyis. It was you who just told me that I am not "the first one" who disturbed this serene environment with unpleasant questions. So I assumed you had something going on here in the past.

About fashion: I can only write about the fashion where I live. Some don't like black bras, I don't like saris. Once I am back in Europe I will be happy to bitch about cameltoes in spandex pants. Nothing against labias, though... ;-)

[amilita]

Maybe I had trouble in the past? What are you talking about? Of course I've had trouble, but I just like this thread to stay fun, that's all...no psychoanalysis needed.

I'm gonna wait to post until I have a COF to report! Sorry for contributing to the derailment!

Those labia-revealing shorts are cracking me up.

[bklynhermit]

i think there's something really disingenuous about saying "i know this is, like, totally judgemental, but..." and then criticizing someone over something they have no choice about. such as whether or not they are fat, where they carry that weight, and what the local clothing customs are where they live.

especially just after you have come into a thread and complained that we all catty bitches for pointing out that people should not wear pants that enable others to see their genitals.

but, yeah, let the bitchfest begin...

[dusty]

I think saris look great. I would love to wear salwar kameez - for, like the two months of the year it would be practical here. I think it is very flattering and graceful.

[tatina]

Hey Amalita - again - I think both is possible. You can not expect a thread to be eternal sunshine and disneyland - sometimes, like in real life, somebody will raise a question. And then, later you laugh about it. There is always a move, a wave, a swing, a challenge - that's what keeps a conversation alive. It would be ridiculous for me to strictly box the serious stuff in the feminist threads and the funny ones here. List apartheid? Naaah. Life is always serious AND funny. I am new here, I play around and I have no history. If I don't like something, I say it and if I like something I put daisies in my hair and sing...and say it too. Maybe you had trouble in the past - it sounds like - but why cling on it and not treat a new person as a new person?

Bklynhermit, I think I have been pretty honest and clear about my own contradictions and my own judgements, bellyfat and all, if you check my mails...
And now. Can we close this case and bitchbitchbitch? Love, Tati

[bklynhermit]

wow, white levis.

i give white denim less than 6 months before it comes roaring back. i mean, it's the natural progression from white leather, right?

[sybarite]

Okay, you asked for it...

My own CoF from some years ago (obviously): black scoopneck bodysuit with white levis. And some amazing cherry doc martins by red or dead, which looked stupid with the rest of the ensemble.

[amilita]

Not saying you gotta leave...by all means, stay! But this is a fun thread; let us have our fun. If it's not fun to you, then leave.

And it is boring, actually, when someone new makes the same challenges/analysis in these threads and derails them again in the same way...you aren't the first.

[bklynhermit]

i don't think that was amilita's point. generally the way it works here (which i am happy with only to varying degrees) is that there are certain threads which are considered mostly apolitical. this is one. in those threads, there's generally a hands-off attitude about whether the discussion is politically correct (within reason, of course). if you want to discuss politics, especially feminism, there's a whole section devoted to that. sometimes we set up counterparts there to the less political threads elsewhere -- for instance there are multiple threads there devoted to the beauty industry, sizeism, race/ethnicity, etc. where we often take conversations from these threads when they get political. i'm not always happy with this setup, but it's the way it is here at Bust.

and i really don't want to be mean here, but how is it not ok to criticize someone for wearing see-thru pants, but it is ok to criticize people who have more bodyfat than you'd care to see?

i secretly love that in india, it's ok for 80 year old women to run around in midriff baring tops no matter what they have going on in the abdominal area.

back to my beloved salwar kameez... i don't think they're unsexy at all. i mean, they're probably not seduction wear. but i think they're totaly hot. especially the tight tapered churidar ones. which is weird because i would totally report someone here if i caught them in tight tapered jeans and a tunic top, which is basically what that is.

[tatina]

Amalita, nice of you to show me the door, but I'm a fashion junkie AND a feminist and I read Vogue AND Camille Paglia. I don't want to split myself up in this OR that. And not leaving just because I don't agree with everything here and don't clap my little hands to everything that is said. Would be boring, non? Why not a little chilli and pepper once in a while?

[tatina]

Yeah, saris... I guess I've just seen too many. For me they look great and very elegant on tall and slim women but - but thats not exactly the Indian bodytype. That bulging bellyfat that graces the Indian streets can be over the top. I mean, it's 6 meters of fabric. That can be alot around the hips... ;-) And forget about riding a bicycle or motorbike. Yeah yeah yeah - here I go, judgemental myself. I know, I know. It's in all of us, I guess.
Salwar Kameez can be nice, although not exactly the sexiest outfit of all. But great for travelling in Asia, if you want to be left alone. I once travelled with a Chador and that was the most peaceful journey I ever had.

[amilita]

Tatina, it's hard to make fun of what people are wearing without being judgemental!

If it doesn't feel fun to you, try some of the other threads like the ones in the F-Word and As the World Turns...those tend to be more serious, analytical, overtly feminist, etc. There's something for everyone around here, I think, but it bums me out when people try to change the more frivolous threads...like Celebrity Gossip and this one.

I wish I could think of a crime of fashion to wrap up with...please, please can we go back to making fun of clothes?

ETA: What bklyn said! I love people who experiment ...and I love someone who exudes confidence no matter what they are wearing. It's freakin' hot down here in NOLA, and the big women are breaking out the tube tops and short shorts...I love it when they wear it like they mean it!

I hate all the Tulane robots, on the other hand.

[bklynhermit]

i would love to wear saris and salwar kameez. i don't, because, um, cultural appropriation much? but oh, i would love to.

i occasionally feel icky about my fashion police routine, but then i remember that i'm far more often critiquing those who don't play or experiment or 'rock' a look, rather than those who attempt and fail. it's gauchos and leggings and all the latest stuff in cosmo that i hate, NOT aberrations from that norm.

[mornington]

I always liked saris when I was in delhi, how odd. I never wore one, but I was only a kid, and I always wanted one. They're not flattering, but I think they can be elegant. I like salwar kamese too.

I'm horribly harsh when it comes to clothing, but I think I'm just as hard on myself as I am on others. But if someone rocks a look, I'll say it too.

Oh, CoF from last night... what is it with private-school girls not brushing their hair and looking like they've been dragged through a bush backwards. Especially when you know they've spent hours straightening it.

[tatina]

Heya Mornington - I understand. And no, I did not feel that anyone was cruel at all - but some postings were a teewee bit on the judgemental side. And it is not that I exclude myself, not at all. I catch myself judging other women all the time. I live in India and I hate saris, one of the most unflattering garment a woman can wear in my opinion. On the other hand I find myself amazingly tolerant about men's outfits - from sweaty T-shirts to bellies wobbeling over tight belts, to stinky sneakers. Its a discrepancy I notice in myself and others and I like to express it and explore it. Big smile, tati

[pepper]

meh, if we were out there saying these things to other women's faces or snickering behind their backs in a hurtful way it would be awful. but this is an apporopriate venue for it, i think. we all think these things when we see some atrocious outfit, it's good to have a place to share and laugh about it.
i'm not that hard on myself, really. my mom was the ultimate feminist so i guess maybe i've got a leg up on the cosmo crowd in terms of self-acceptance. i wouldn't touch those magazines to make a fire (they smell funny when they burn, ha ha).

[tatina]

Hey Pepper - it's not about spoiling anybodies fun - the more fun, the better! The more giggles and laughter, the better. On the other hand, fun on the expense of girls and women who might just have fun themselves and are experimenting with their looks, try on something crazy and wild and chose not to look like mainstream barbies - why?
On a more deeper level, my input was about encouraging myself and others to look into patterns of female hostility - we are so much harsher with ourselves than any man... Our selfhatred and our tendency to critize other women for every little faux pas is still an issue - even 25 years after womens lib. Tati

[mornington]

tatina, I honestly don't think anyone in this thread is seriously, honestly judging other women. The CoF thread has always seemed to be lighthearted and humourous; we post our own CoFs as well, and laugh at ourselves. We're not honestly trying to be offensive, and I'm sorry if you do think we're being cruel. (Although yes, we are being merciless, and bitchy, but I think everyone here is guilty of CoF as much as the people we describe. Except me. I'm always perfectly dressed and have never committed a single CoF ;P)

I'll confess to wearing those bodysuit things. Under jeans. My twelve-year old self was heartily confused (oh god, I'm dating myself) because it took forever to get undressed when I needed to pee.

And I'm using this weird "holiday skin" mosturiser that contains fake tan. Because my legs actually glow in the dark. Fake tan becomes dangerous when it looks really, really fake.

Walkingbitch, I think I love you.

[pepper]

hey, we're really enjoy ourselves in here. if you don't like it, well, you know the drill...
don't go spoiling anything for anyone else eh? this is just a bit of harmless fun. and occassionally, the laugh i really need.

[tatina]

Hmmm. I am new here and I have been following this thread for a while - and a certain uncomfy feeling remains. Who are we to play fashion police? I used to wear garbage bags as T-Shirts in the punk era, safety pins through my ears and huge 80-ties Dynasty shoulder pads later. I squeezed myself into tiny lace leggins, tutus, velvetdresses with cowboy boots, pyjama pants as evening wear, cone bras a la Madonna, garter belts for parties, a vintage nightgown as my first wedding dress - but so what??? Why not experimenting and playing a bit? I find this judging other women a bit disturbing. I see a lot of women who's outfit I don't like and I am sure they don't like mine either. Live and let live... Isn't there a touch of "lets judge each other mercilessly" in that - the good old hostile game women play?
The only thing I find really annoying is when fashion bores me, like uniform fashion - something I saw a lot in the US. Bermuda shorts to the knees, long baggy T-shirt, shoulder lenghts hair with highlights, sneakers and tiny cut off Californian-plastic-surgeon-noses. But even that is ok, if the women feel cool in it. Just a thought. Tati