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> small breast support group - (I need it even if they don't)
knorl05
post Apr 23 2008, 12:55 PM
Post #3501


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From: detroit rock city


yes welcome strongirl and honeybunch! glad to have you here. smile.gif

karategrrl: i've heard the pencil test also works for the bum. i think if the pencil falls back there that means you pass, but i dont know about the pencil test with the boobies? i heard about it from goldie hawn, who's got famously tiny tits and rear, and she says she passes so i dunno? it is rather toungeincheek so not to be taken seriously. i also heard if you stand heels together, toes pointed outward, and your inner legs make four diamonds that means you apparently have "perfect" legs. pssh. silliness.

crino, sall good. one or two peeps are not going to change my view of the lounge. disagreements are disagreements. i'm still incredibly impressed by all the busties that i've had the majority of my interaction, and i still really value everyone's input and support. wub.gif

re: female models who adorn just about everything in male mags... i'm going to just bring it back to the old adage "sex sells". i think if advertisers figure out what works, they just keep doing more of the same. i imagine women are a bit more sensible to not be swayed by some dude's muscles or package. i mean, if some guy were advertising something that was directed specifically toward women, like maxipads, i dont think he would be too effective. but a woman advertising something like a wrench to men, will get most of them all hot and bothered, even if the product isnt the greatest. you know? although some psychologists and philosophers will argue that men and women are intrinsically the same, our conditioning plays a huge role in how we respond to what's presented to us. meaning. being attracted to a woman most men deem as 'hot' makes them feel like more of a man.. but women are not so apt to base their sexual worth on whether or not they think a man is attractive.


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karategrrl
post Apr 23 2008, 11:36 AM
Post #3502


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I hope Knorl isn't put off the whole site! We need her here! I admit I don't have time to visit really any other of the BUST areas, so I don't know what's going on outside of the small boobies area.

Crinoline, thanks for the input. Yeah, women as "decorative objects"...you are right on!

Honeybunch, don't feel weird for not having sag. Who wants sag??? A large-breasted friend of mine once mentioned how she thought breasts "down to there" looked good (motioning with hand at about mid-torso, a little lower than where hers were "down to"). My feeling was, why would anyone want breasts "down" to anywhere? No disrespect meant to our large-breasted sisters, just my P.O.V.
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crinoline
post Apr 23 2008, 11:06 AM
Post #3503


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From: Deep South, U.S.A.


Welcome, strongirl! You certainly hit the nail on the head. *flashes back atcha*

pencil test- it's a stupid idea, and means nothing, but I was told that you "failed" when the pencil didn't stay up. It's interesting that everyone kind of assumes they failed it, no matter the boob size.

karate- nope. With the exception of the laughable "playgirl" mag. I think this is because 1.) Women don't like random, disjointed images of nude men (whereas men apparently love any random pic with boobs) and 2.) Men are not objectified the way we are, so it is difficult to just insert them where they don't belong, where a woman is treated more like a decorative object that can be thrown in anywhere, like say, on a motorcycle, or sprawled across a racecar.
-the only exception to this rule that I can think of is that sometimes women's mags have a "hot guys" spread, that are usually portrait-like images of handsome, smiling men with their shirt off or unbuttoned. Still, the focus of these pictures is much more often on the face/smile, so it is less like a random nude body.

I wish I had more to contribute, but I don't. hmm. Knorl hasn't been in here in a while, I hope she wasn't put off the whole forum because of confrontations in other threads.


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honeybunch
post Apr 23 2008, 10:58 AM
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Okay, I get it now. My boobs would never hold a pencil. It's kinda strange cuz I always felt weird for not having that sag like other girls.

I'm not from the UK, but I used to be Cosmopolitan UK edition, and they seem more liberal with the male nudity. In one issue, they showed topless women, but it wasn't a sexual thing.

I had to stop buying those mags cuz they were so bad. I had turn the TV off,too.
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karategrrl
post Apr 23 2008, 09:47 AM
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Hey, separate question--

You know how men's magazines--no matter what the topic--always have lots of pics of naked or near-naked women in them? (For example, my hubby gets bodybuilding magazines...they have pictorials of women in them that are just barely not porn because they have tiny strips of fabric over crucial areas...what this has to do with bodybuilding is anybody's guess... and, of course, there was the now-famous motorcycle mag of his that I posted about--it had topless women in it...isn't topless considered "porn" in the U.S.?)

Are any women's mags out there like this--supposedly about any given topic but with naked or near-naked men or people? I certainly don't see this sort of thing in Oprah. Or even Mademoiselle.

Remember, I'm in the U.S., so I would imagine in Europe I could more easily find this sort of thing.
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karategrrl
post Apr 23 2008, 09:40 AM
Post #3506


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Remember, honeybunch, the pencil test is kind of a tongue-in-cheek idea--for women like us, the pencil falls b/c there's no skin fold under the breast to hold the pencil there.

When I was younger I thought there was supposed to be some kind of magic that held the pencil there. I actually held the pencil under my perky, no-fold-under-it boob and let it go. The pencil fell to the floor. wink.gif

At least we all pass the pencil test here! tongue.gif
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karategrrl
post Apr 23 2008, 09:37 AM
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(deleted double post)
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anna k
post Apr 23 2008, 09:16 AM
Post #3508


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From: NYC


Pencil test is whether a woman can hold a pencil underneath your breasts determining if she needs to wear a bra. If the pencil doesn't fall, the woman has "failed" and needs to wear a bra.
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honeybunch
post Apr 23 2008, 07:11 AM
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Hi, everybody! I'm new.

Quick question, what is a pencil test?
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karategrrl
post Apr 23 2008, 06:48 AM
Post #3510


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Welcome, strongirl!! Glad to have you here, all de-lurked and stuff!!

"the dynamic of men as consumers and women as product..."

Holy crap. You summed it all up in a few words, grrl. Very profound! I think you just crystallized why exactly it is that some nudity absolutely disgusts me and others I find erotic and lovely--it's all about the intent! Hubby can't understand why we can see a couple getting naughty in a non-porn movie and I have no problem with it, yet the biker/titty mag he brought home got under my skin so badly. You summed it up, grrl. Thanks!!

"Till then, I can't stop men passing judgment on me but I can work on not internalizing their judgments and instead embracing my own love and apprciation for my body...which is what this topic seems to be about!"

Sheet, yeah!

"flashing my own small and very sexy titties at y'all in a playful and affectionate greeting"

laugh.gif laugh.gif Woohoo! Lovin' it!!! Flashin' mine back!!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif

About turning metaphorical mirrors on people...I can't find a version of this online to link to, but I once saw a very telling cartoon--How men see themselves vs. how women see themselves. It showed a man and a woman, each in their respective bedrooms, standing in front of full-length mirrors. The man was fat, old, and gross, but the image he saw was that of a Chippendale dancer-type; the woman was beautiful, trim, youthful--a swimsuit model-type--but in the mirror she looked fat, old, ugly, etc. Very interesting...and true.
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anna k
post Apr 22 2008, 02:31 PM
Post #3511


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From: NYC


Thanks for posting those Lou Doillon pics, edie52. I saw Jane Birkin in a Playboy book and was surprised but happy that Playboy had featured a small-breasted natural-looking woman, and that they also had a photo of Robin Givens (tiny and thin with small breasts) from the early 90's. Lou Doillon has a great rock 'n' roll look that I like, much like Asia Argento or Lindsay Lohan or Kate Moss.
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strongirl
post Apr 22 2008, 10:24 AM
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Sorry about that repeat of previous post - I'm new and don't know what I'm doing yet. I've been reading your posts for quite a while and decided to de-lurk. You all are so awesome - what a bunch of smart, insightful women! wow.

Karategrrl - your urge to hold a mirror up to the old uncle is exactly what needs to happen - at least metaphorically to many men, if not physically to that specific one. Not that a person has to have beauty in order to appreciate beauty, but the dynamic of men as consumers and women as product has to change if things are going to get better. Till then, I can't stop men passing judgment on me but I can work on not internalizing their judgments and instead embracing my own love and apprciation for my body...which is what this topic seems to be about!

flashing my own small and very sexy titties at y'all in a playful and affectionate greeting,
strongirl
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strongirl
post Apr 22 2008, 09:58 AM
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QUOTE(beck @ Apr 22 2008, 07:32 AM) *
yeah dj i thought the stats were a bit suspect too, what i have certainly seen online though is lots of vitriol about women who breastfeed in public, stuff about it being disgusting and inconsiderate...

and i'm sorry you had to put up with those morons. i normally stick to the middle finger approach because i never think of a good rebuff until afterwards...so annoying!

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beck
post Apr 22 2008, 05:15 AM
Post #3514


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From: London, UK


yeah dj i thought the stats were a bit suspect too, what i have certainly seen online though is lots of vitriol about women who breastfeed in public, stuff about it being disgusting and inconsiderate...

and i'm sorry you had to put up with those morons. i normally stick to the middle finger approach because i never think of a good rebuff until afterwards...so annoying!
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dj-bizmonkey
post Apr 21 2008, 09:41 PM
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founded by puritans, that's for sure. i don't think we need to talk about sex less, i think we need to change the way we talk about it in the first place. we've got to let go of the guilt and embrace a more healthy paradigm,

these guys were obviously fucktards, what scares me more is that its groups of men like that who will stand by complacently while a woman is drugged or groped or assaulted and not do anything about it.

karategrrl, it's just been tough year, just these freakazoids and those bitches in the locker room at the gym. maybe it's just the school i go to (upscale, private university, plenty of entitlement to go around). old men critics are the saddest to me. i mean, i doubt that old uncle could even get it up, yet he still feels like he has the right to judge the sexual attractiveness of women. gross. just gross.

anyway, i don't want to get too far off topic here, as karategrrl says, back to our regularly scheduled breast discussion.....


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deepthinker
post Apr 21 2008, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE(dj-bizmonkey @ Apr 21 2008, 01:52 PM) *
we ARE obsessed here in the USA, men and women. there are all kinds of theories as to why. i personally think its because of the lack of exposure to regular breasts doing their regular function. we've so sexualised the breast, made it so taboo that people are curious about it and become fixated on it. i think, for the most part, men like breasts, but only in the USA does it border on fetishism. there are also plenty of places in the world where breasts aren't sexual. they aren't an inherently sexual body part. they do give outward cues that a female is at least somewhat sexually mature, but that's about it. i hope that things will change in this country before all women end up looking like cut-up barbie dolls.


I think you hit the nail on the head here dj, sex has become this taboo thing in our society, so much so that it's "naughty" or "dirty" to talk about it, or to view certain parts of the body. It's treated like a game really IMO, when it shouldn't be. I think if the culture didn't talk about it as much as they do, then perhaps it wouldn't be so naughty or dirty, but just plain normal, like if one would go to a nude beach for example.
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karategrrl
post Apr 21 2008, 06:47 PM
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Holy crap, DJ, you seem to have the most horrid things happen to you!

I think you were more composed than I would have been. But definitely, it's the mob mentality!! I learned as a young teen to avoid groups of 2 or more men on the street. If it's one guy, it can go either way--he can be a jerk or a gentleman. If there's at least one girl with them--they're probably safe. BUT... the asshole factor goes up exponentially with the number of the men present in a group.

Many dickwads talk crap to try and ilicit a reaction. I have a feeling that's what they were trying to do--otherwise, why not just comment so only they could hear? Unfortunately, in a situation like that, either one must ignore the fuckers or kill at least one of them--there's not much in-between.

Beck, I do agree--the way many people put themselves out there invites "rating" and the wrong kind of attention. I firmly believe that a lot of the tasteless porn and junk out there is a big reason why I cannot walk 20 yards down the street by myself and not have someone say something. (Okay, an exaggeration, but not much.) Men grow up with that crap and think that's what all women are about. (My first boyfriend, for example, lived on a steady diet of cheap porn. According to him, every woman on earth loved anal sex--because that's what the women in the mags "said.")

This makes me think of my husband's uncle. The man is 70-something, in poor health, and...let me just say he is not exactly the picture of studliness. TV watching is pretty much his only pasttime, and when we go over to visit, he has to comment on every woman on the TV--"Nice eyes," "She's so fat!" "Ugh, she's so ugly!" etc. Sometimes it takes all my will not to grab a mirror and hold it up to him. Afterwards, hubby always thanks me for being so patient. wink.gif

DJ, both my middle fingers up to those asshats too.

Sorry for all the cursing. This just makes my blood boil.
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deepthinker
post Apr 21 2008, 05:22 PM
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I'm guessing the alcohol may have had a bit to do with things. Not to excuse their comments mind you, but just saying.
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dj-bizmonkey
post Apr 21 2008, 04:25 PM
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beck, not a criticism of you, but whoever wrote that blog or whatever it is has got to be getting her numbers screwed up, at least when it comes to breastfeeding. i don't think you can arrest a woman for breastfeeding unless she's trespassing, because in all 50 of the United States, a woman can legally breastfeed. i did a search on the ny times website for that article, nothing to be found. as for women getting arrested for being topless (or topfree, which is an actual kind of social justice movement here) that i can believe. i live in new orleans and even here in the french quarter, you can see women get arrested.

anyway, speaking of unwarranted, unrightful scrutiny in criticism. get a load of this! my office at school is caddy-cornered to a frat house. don't ask me which one, because i can't read greek letters. i was walking to the convenience store just past the house and about four or five guys were out on the porch, drinking beer. i'm wearing a short skirt today (which is my damn right, i certainly don't blame myself for what happened next) and the guys started kind of cat-calling to me. i just kept my head up and walked on to the store. i bought a couple sodas for me and my friend back at the office and started the half a walk back. i had to pass by the guys again, so i steeled my will and then wimped out and pretended to be talking on the phone. they started shouting things to me like, 'what's wrong ice queen? don't you like dick?' gross. after which one of them said, 'don't be an ass,' talking to his friend. i didn't react, kept on moving. luckily i had sunglasses on as well. then one of them said, 'ahh, you don't want her anyway man, she's all out of whack.' (i guess he was referring to my bountiful posterior and my not-so bountiful bust) to which another replied, 'yeah, she'd be pretty much perfect if she had some tits.'

are you fucking kidding me?!!!!! i would have turned around and given them a piece of my mind, but i was had to get to class (in the same building as my office). i did manage to produce a defiant middle finger over my shoulder though.

i guess that last comment was meant to be a compliment? i don't even know. i don't know what was going through their minds. that bullshit mob mentality maybe. all i know is it gave me a mean case of the ickies.


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crinoline
post Apr 21 2008, 03:26 PM
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dj- yes, yes, and yes! To everything you said. The art point is particularly obvious to me because I see it every day in my art history classes. And on the rant (mine not yours) of guys rating women, I was shocked to discover that men I knew, intelligent attractive liberal men, do this! It is a cultural thing, that we "owe" them something. gross.

beck- I think we (the US) should do a PSA where it is pointed out that public breastfeeding is absolutely legal and normal. If I get into law school, I'm going to look into "spreading the word", the truth of the legalities of breastfeeding. If a woman is in a store, feeding her child, and the manager asks her to stop, he is violating her rights. It's scary how few people know that.


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