[karategrrl]

So good to see you back, DJ. It's just not the same without you!

i LOVE men, but i also LOVE a little man-bashing. their brains just aren't wired the same.

Dang, it's so true. For most of my younger life I swore we were really all the same, but esp. with my husband, it's really hit home that we are two different species.

anything can be 'big because i'm fat.' as in, 'those onions are big because i'm fat.' i'm not fat and my boobs aren't big, so i guess that's why we found it so hilarious.

That is cute! That kind of humor reminds me of my hubby. He's convinced he's fat. He has a bit of a belly, but he's so huge and muscular overall it really doesn't look bad at all--it balances out and he's a hottie. Whenever I give him a compliment, it goes something like this:

Me: Nice ass!
Him: Fat ass.
Me: Nice legs!
Him: Fat legs.
Me (now catching on to the game): Nice cock!
Him: Wimpy cock.

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

[dj-bizmonkey]

wow. i have been totally out of the loop for too long! my bf just moved in here, my parents were in town, slaving away at work. ANYWAY. you ladies have kept up a great discussion in here and i'm glad to see/read how positive everyone is being.

i LOVE men, but i also LOVE a little man-bashing. their brains just aren't wired the same. i will say that my bf is always very supportive and sweet when it comes to my body. i've put on some weight recently and as a result, my boobs are just slightly bigger. only perceptable to me, really. he was grabbing them the other day and i said, 'they are big because i'm fat!' i don't know if i had funny tone or what, but it has become a running joke between us now. anything can be 'big because i'm fat.' as in, 'those onions are big because i'm fat.' i'm not fat and my boobs aren't big, so i guess that's why we found it so hilarious.

i've really lucked out with j. he's the man who waved his hand and said 'big boobs are overrated.'

He can say that if I'm a headache being this good-looking, I would be a nightmare with boobs. Is that supposed to be a compliement?

i had a good friend say something very similar to me. it was along the lines of 'dj, you'd be too pretty if you had boobs.' wtf?

(((((vendetta))))) i judging from everything i've read, i think you might do well by seperating from this guy. i'm not saying that you have to break up permanently, but he is obviously wreaking havoc on your self-esteem whether he is intending to or not. you need to surround yourself with people/activities that make you feel good about yourself. you said you used to be 'sex-queen.' what was going on in those days? who were you hanging out with and what were you doing? you might try getting back to that. he may have f-ed up your sex life with him, but that's no reason you can't feel sexy. good luck, let us know how it all turns out.

strongirl Posted Today, 09:53 AM
all that stuff can be cute and sexy as all heck, and I can pull it off in a way that busty women can't. Nanny nanny nah nah.

hahahahaha!! i love it. my bustier lady friends always say how jealous they are of the tops i can get away with.

[karategrrl]

On the topic of small breasts being equated with teen sexual images, I personally have always felt that my sexual appeal was basically girlish and I don't have a problem with that. If I had other assets (big tits or booty) I'd make the best of it and flaunt them. But what I have instead is a playful, girlish appeal that (like others have mentioned here), I sometimes emphasize for sexy fun. Miniskirts and socks, little girly tops, all that stuff can be cute and sexy as all heck, and I can pull it off in a way that busty women can't. Nanny nanny nah nah.

An older friend once told me when I made a joke about getting implants that I should never do it because it would make me look "matronly" and I would lose my "cuteness". I think it was good advice.

"Nanny nanny nah nah. "

Strongirl, thanks for the reminder!!! All too often I think i'm not "womanly" b/c of my small breasts, but you are right--they can be part of a whole package of youthful, girlish appeal. Granted, there are many men who only like large ones, and (as we have discussed here, and I hate to admit), the breast implant phenomenon is inflating (no pun intended) perceptions of the "average" breast size. However, many men just like breasts--large, small, medium, etc. --and who they are connected to is important, too.

I almost forgot I did this, ladies!!!!.......
Over the weekend, I was having a good-natured argument with my visiting sister-in-law over who had the smaller breasts--me (now and always) or her (pre-pregnancy). For years, she has always argued she "had nothing...wore A-cups," bla bla bla. This time I set the record straight by flashing her. It came to that. The look on her face was priceless: a nanosecond of shock (as in, "she just actually flashed me!") and then agreement: "Oh, yes, they ARE small." (Duh! what I have been telling her all these years!!!?)

[strongirl]

Couple of quick comments here -

Vendetta - just want to add my support to the outpouring you are getting here. The main thing is be kind to yourself. Love yourself. You deserve it and you have the power to do it. You are a beautiful, intelligent, caring woman. This time of pain and distress will pass and you will grow from it. Hang in there!

On the topic of small breasts being equated with teen sexual images, I personally have always felt that my sexual appeal was basically girlish and I don't have a problem with that. If I had other assets (big tits or booty) I'd make the best of it and flaunt them. But what I have instead is a playful, girlish appeal that (like others have mentioned here), I sometimes emphasize for sexy fun. Miniskirts and socks, little girly tops, all that stuff can be cute and sexy as all heck, and I can pull it off in a way that busty women can't. Nanny nanny nah nah.

An older friend once told me when I made a joke about getting implants that I should never do it because it would make me look "matronly" and I would lose my "cuteness". I think it was good advice.

This is not to be confused with pedophilia, which is violating children and WRONG, just to be clear. Taking the natural sexual impulses and feelings that we all had as kids and teens but didn't act on (hopefully) because we were too young, and using that energy and imagery in a mature, adult sexuality is a whole different thing.

[neurotic.nelly]

((vendetta))
**************

*derailment ahead*
karategrrl - (back to louis hay for a second) i found the movie on google video under the title 'metaphysical healing', and i watched the whole thing yesterday after being bombarded with negative emotions and arguing with my bf all day. i cried like a baby, but after i was done i felt so much better, and i picked up her book and i am determined to go thru it again and this time i am going to do all the exercises. i started today, it feels really good, and i feel very centered. oh yea, remember the woman i was telling you about earlier who channels those benevolent beings, Esther Hicks, she is in the video, but she isn't channeling. She was the woman who wore a black suit and white shirt with a fanned out collar, and she spoke about being connected to the source a lot.

Here she, err, they are!

*end derailment*

Large or small breasts. I think that both have there issues.

Here's what I enjoy about small breasts:
not having men oogle me too much ( i like a little attention )
being able to jog without looking awkward up top
being comfortable jogging for long distances.
no back problems.
i think my pms breast pain is minor compared to what it could be if i were larger...(???)
being able to hide them when i hug people... they are not constantly in the way of a hug...
again dressing sexy, playing with certain fetishized styles.

one last thing... have any of you seen the itty bitty titty committee movie? i thought it was a let down. the actresses were bland, and the script was too. it wasn't even about small breasts and the challenges/discrimination young women face. pooh on that movie.

[Vendetta]

He didn't do it on purpose... he never meant to hurt me. He was just being insensitive... and I let him at that time because I had never been offended by any comments on other women before and cause I'm kinda bisexual, they were even part of my life. But this guy was kinda obsessed with boobs and somehow, I silently turned myself into a self-eating monster. I guess no one has ever commented that much about boobs before... And then, like 9 or 10 months after that I was already living in a private hell. I just can't forgive and forget him because I still live on that private hell, with myself. I have never liked the way I used to deal with my body on that department, but now It's just not acceptable. I simply didn't questioned them on certain ways or looked at them a conscious point of view and now I do. And he's there, all the time, everyday. And we are killing each other.

[karategrrl]

He said it much such little impact on him that he didn't even remember he said it. Now he's more considerate, and he thinks twice about what he says. He's even pays more attention to my breasts now thanks to that and other boob talks we've had.

I could go on and on about other comments guys have made about my body ("jiggly butt") that could easily be offensive but they think it's only a joke. Sometimes they need to be told explicitly what they are doing wrong.

I'm glad no one has taken my comments as man-bashing, b/c I truly didn't mean it that way. Men and women are just DIFFERENT in their communication. Very. and you are right, honeybunch--men generally don't have body issues/concerns like we do, so they may not realize the impact of what they say. Men tease each other mercilessly all the time--it's like the way they bond. Women typically don't do that unless they know each other very well, at least not in my experience.

I'm glad others have brought up some points, too, b/c it helps me remember that my hubby, too, is not just an insensitive oaf--he's a guy.

One thing I've learned from hubby is that he can speak in a way that feels insensitive to me--interrupting, raising voice, making some types of comments--and that is just the way he deals with men all day at work and in friendships. He forgets that I am different and I take that kind of thing much differently. He's been shocked when I've told him about things that bugged me, too. He says I'm oversensitive, and maybe to him (and other men) I am, but I am female, and I know I'm not the only one out there like me.

[honeybunch]

Hey V, sorry you are dealing with this pain and bullshit right now. I've just come from a dificult weekend with my brother and husband pressing all my buttons with their "guy guy" behavior, so I truly so feel for you!

Sorry to sound insensitive to men or like I'm making a blanket statement, but in my 39 years of life (including 23 years of relationships), I can say it's been my experience that men generally are not as intuitive or sensitive as women, and are masters at hypocrisy, especially when it comes to attractions to other women vs. you. That said, they often do need "sensitivity training," as someone here put it, however, there are limits. I believe that after we have made considerable effort to make our feelings known and they just don't fricking get it and it looks like they never will, it may be time to start thinking about getting out because, unfortunately some people will just never understand certain things.



<<HUGS>>

IA, especially when it comes to body image in general. They generally don't have the same relationships we have with our bodies. I've had to correct me SO and teach to be a bit more sensitive.

Ex. We were in the car talking about Hooters. I was joking about working there, and he told me "You don't have any!"

Needless, to say the next day I brought it up (I should have brought it up sooner, but I was stunned). He said it much such little impact on him that he didn't even remember he said it. Now he's more considerate, and he thinks twice about what he says. He's even pays more attention to my breasts now thanks to that and other boob talks we've had.

I could go on and on about other comments guys have made about my body ("jiggly butt") that could easily be offensive but they think it's only a joke. Sometimes they need to be told explicitly what they are doing wrong.

I also think talking to a professional may help both of you.

[starship]

V- I cant say whether to dump him or not but i know a lot of the time people say inconsiderate things without really realising the effect it has or meaning it in a nasty way. My boyfirend has a habit for putting his foot in it although ive noticed he usually avoids boob talk now he knows i have a n issue with it. Even my own mother can do it sometimes. The other day she wanted me to model a dress for some photographs and commented that she'd have to 'pad me out' first and that another relative of ours would look great in it (one with large breasts no doubt). I know she cant have meant it spitefully or realised that it would upset me but I was still left feeling, well, crap. I think you need to work out whether your boyfriend realises and is doing it deliberately (for reasons other people have suggested) or whether he's just and insensitive oaf. If its the first then dump him for the sake of your sanity but if its the latter then i guess its workable...
My boobs are at the deflated stage of their monthly transformation . On the plus side I have great legs, bum and a tiny waist. sorry but I have to keep telling myself that lol. I feel like burning these bloody padded bras. I am a boob fraud
(((gorgeous small boobed ladies)))

[karategrrl]

And I had never dealt with self-esteem issues before and had always felt good. So, have I become mentally unhealthy lately or were that just the circumstances?

Hey V, sorry you are dealing with this pain and bullshit right now. I've just come from a dificult weekend with my brother and husband pressing all my buttons with their "guy guy" behavior, so I truly so feel for you!

Sorry to sound insensitive to men or like I'm making a blanket statement, but in my 39 years of life (including 23 years of relationships), I can say it's been my experience that men generally are not as intuitive or sensitive as women, and are masters at hypocrisy, especially when it comes to attractions to other women vs. you. That said, they often do need "sensitivity training," as someone here put it, however, there are limits. I believe that after we have made considerable effort to make our feelings known and they just don't fricking get it and it looks like they never will, it may be time to start thinking about getting out because, unfortunately some people will just never understand certain things.

What concerns me is your statement above. You've said you've always been very sexual and you never had a breast issue or self-esteem issues before, but now you do, and you've mentioned geting implants here several times. Do you think it's largely due to this guy/relationship? I think a very important indicator in a relationship can be **how we feel about ourselves when we are around this person/how does this person make you feel about you?**

I also think he's said some very inconsiderate things, however, if you think this relationship is worth saving, I also agree that couples counseling is very good, having done it myself. Or just go by yourself, as counselors have likely heard your concerns from tons of other people and can help you by sharing their years of experience.

You've got a lot of things to think about, V. We all support you in whatever you do. And don't beat yourself up because yes, relationships are HARD!!!!! I think they can be the most difficult things in life, honestly.

<<HUGS>>

[crinoline]

V- have you considered couples therapy? An objective third party may be able to point out to your boy the severe error of his ways in a manner that he can accept.
It's very important that he is aware that he is eroding your self esteem with his thoughtless words/actions. You could tell him that you would like to try couples therapy, and if he refuses, go on your own. It may bring home to him how important this is to your health and happiness.

I don't understand how he thinks he can hold you to a different standard than that to which he holds himself (again reminding me of my friend P's situation). This is an immature and harmful way to treat a person they supposedly love. He is allowed to violate your trust and undermine your self image by blatantly pointing out other women he "prefers", but you aren't allowed to have an opinion he disagrees with!? I don't think so. That is not how it works in the world of grown ups.

Know that this is not your fault. You do not deserve such treatment, you deserve much, much better.

You are beautiful and sexy the way you were made, because you are a Woman. This "man" should be down on his knees thanking you for allowing him near your goddess self.

(((V and women everywhere)))

[Vendetta]

He says he didn't do it on purpose, that it's my fault that he felt confortable to say whetever he liked because I was so confident. So today, fighting again, I asked him how would he feel if I used to be always reminding him that I prefer taller guys, because taller guys make me feel secure (he's shorter than me) and that is probably more manly. He totally freaked out, not because I prefer taller guys, but due to its reasons. That if he knew I was looking at other guys like that he wouldn't be with me. He can do it but I can't? And that he didn't prefer larger anymore, he loved only me.
So I'm with this guy, everything is doing great but sometimes he makes some comments about other girls and boobs. I don't have the boobs. So I look at other girls and start wondering why are the boobs that important, what's so great about them. And I find out a bunch of reasons for it and another bunch of reasons for feeling unhappy with their absence. And then I look differently at myself in the mirror, and become so self-concious of it that I believe that he sees me the way I see myself. Less than. Deformed. And that hurts me so much that I protect myself and no longer feel sexual, with or without him, so that I'm not able to think about it. And then I think of surgery, scared to death and needing reassurances, and the only 3 people that I have told about it (him, my dad and his girl) don't make a big deal of it. And I come from a very balanced and up class family. And, trying to concentrate on the good stuff but not really having any at the moment, I freak out. And I give it some thinking and I think too much. I'm making my own therapy lol And I had never dealt with self-esteem issues before and had always felt good. So, have I become mentally unhealthy lately or were that just the circumstances?

xxxx

[crinoline]

V - It certainly sounds to me like this guy doesn't deserve you.
I have a (beautiful and intelligent) friend who recently had to finally leave the guy she loved because she realized that the verbal abuse was not going to stop. It was hard, but it was the healthy decision. He said thoughtless things like your boyfriend does, and generally treated her like she was inferior both physically and intellectually. This was a guy who is 50 pounds overweight and dropped out of community college. My friend is gorgeous and a biology major at a University.
I think this may go beyond simple insensitivity to being a way to make you feel inferior. I've known "men" who feel that the only way to keep a wonderful female by their side is to make her feel like she isn't good enough for him, when usually the opposite is true.

I want you to know that there are PLENTY of men (real men, not boys) who are perfectly willing and able to love and cherish you just the way you are. There is no need to debase and change yourself for an insensitive jerk who isn't good enough for you.

(((((V)))))

[honeybunch]

I say dump him! He doesn't have a preference, he has an obsession or fetish for large breasts.

I wouldn't blame her if she did. I've dated guys who had preferences for large breasts, but none of them were ever so rude to me.

[neurotic.nelly]

I say dump him! He doesn't have a preference, he has an obsession or fetish for large breasts.

[neurotic.nelly]

i wrote really good things earlier but they got erased...oh well...

[honeybunch]

I know and we all know that these breast issues don't make sense. Of course I shouldn't have them because I'm the one he loves and I'm the one he has chosen to stay with and bla bla. He can't say he's a man to whom breast size doesn't matter because he has been attracted only to bigger before he met me. He once said small breasts didn't attract him. So, he's obsessed with breasts, as he has once said too, how come he's not obsessed with mine? I am a big turn on to him, no doubt about it, but breasts are not included? He can point out at a porn star and say that those huge saggy breasts are his type of breasts and I have to be alright with that? He can drool over beyonce's side-boob-bounce at "a beautiful liar" videoclip and say "shakira's fine but doesn't have boobs" and I have to be alright with that. He can tell me to take 5 boxes of bc pill for my boobs to grow or make fun of me "you're so happy you've gained side-boob" when I wasn't even thinking that I already had "side-boob". He can say that if I'm a headache being this good-looking, I would be a nightmare with boobs. Is that supposed to be a compliement? He doesn't get why I freaked out, after 9 or 10 months living these kind of situations? He doesn't get why I can't get undressed now in front of him. This was the way my head found to self-protect itself, if I feel like shit when having sex with him, then I don't want to. I lost my libido. Shit, I'm sick.

Well, that doesn't sound very considerate. Like a lot of guys, maybe he needs some Sensitivity Training 101. I'm sorry hun, but he sounds a bit dense. Why does he think you'll want to get undressed in front of him after he insults you?

[Vendetta]

So, he has got a preference. I'm not like that. But he loves me. Why is it so hard to accept?

[Vendetta]

I know and we all know that these breast issues don't make sense. Of course I shouldn't have them because I'm the one he loves and I'm the one he has chosen to stay with and bla bla. He can't say he's a man to whom breast size doesn't matter because he has been attracted only to bigger before he met me. He once said small breasts didn't attract him. So, he's obsessed with breasts, as he has once said too, how come he's not obsessed with mine? I am a big turn on to him, no doubt about it, but breasts are not included? He can point out at a porn star and say that those huge saggy breasts are his type of breasts and I have to be alright with that? He can drool over beyonce's side-boob-bounce at "a beautiful liar" videoclip and say "shakira's fine but doesn't have boobs" and I have to be alright with that. He can tell me to take 5 boxes of bc pill for my boobs to grow or make fun of me "you're so happy you've gained side-boob" when I wasn't even thinking that I already had "side-boob". He can say that if I'm a headache being this good-looking, I would be a nightmare with boobs. Is that supposed to be a compliement? He doesn't get why I freaked out, after 9 or 10 months living these kind of situations? He doesn't get why I can't get undressed now in front of him. This was the way my head found to self-protect itself, if I feel like shit when having sex with him, then I don't want to. I lost my libido. Shit, I'm sick.

[honeybunch]

My boyfriend doesn't like how I feel about my breasts either. He hates when we even get on that subject. He swears they are fine, but he doesn't pay much attention to them. He says I have a self-esteem problem. I admitted that I do have body image issues. He once threatened to start askin random people what they think about my breasts since according to him I care so much about what people think. We haven't had much sex lately, and I'm sure he doesn't think how I feel about my breasts is a turn on.

What really gets me is that he just doesn't seem to get why I would feel self-conscious. This is a guy who occasionally reads Maxim and Playboy and who has hung around porn stars with very big boobs and VIP rooms. Hmmmm... Can you say dense?