[karategrrl]

this is unrelated to breasts, but what are your guys' thoughts on birth control? i've felt kinda weird ever since starting the pill.

I think you meant, "you guys?" If so, I was lucky enough to find a good pill I like and that doesn't mess with me. Makes my periods lighter and cramps less. However, I am endlessly annoyed when women COMPLAIN about breast growth while on the pill. Hasn't happened to me!!!

[DeeRayy]

ahaha, kerabear, you're adorable

i like being on the smaller end of the spectrum too. the biggest i'd ever want to be would be a full b-cup. anything over that would be kind of excessive on my frame, and i think smaller ones are prettier (not that every pair of breasts isn't beautiful). but yes, it would be nice to have just a little more so that i could fill out clothes easier. i get confused because i actually measured out to be a small b-cup when i recently took my bust measurements. but i'm guessing it has to do with the fact that when i have measured myself i did it topless and when the cold air hits my nipples stand up and wave hello to the world. and i measure around them, so i figure they add about an extra half inch when in full salute.

although i have to admit i have noticed they've become more shapely recently. i figure this could be due to one of three things- 1)my doctor recently put me on birth control to regulate my period 2)i've been working out more and have been doing push ups regularly 3) i'm not completely done with puberty yet (i pray it's this one haha, but it's probably the least likely considering i'm nineteen). ooor it could just be in my head. it's not that they've really increased in size [i still wear an a-cup,], but they do seem to be a bit rounder and appear a little fuller at the bottom. i'm not complaining, but i really hope it's not the birth control, because that means it's only temporary.

this is unrelated to breasts, but what are your guys' thoughts on birth control? i've felt kinda weird ever since starting the pill.

[strongirl]

OMG, that is just TOO flippin' funny! LOL "They're alive!" I could swear I saw flickering lights when I read that! I am hurting myself laughing! Thanks, Kera and karategrrl!

[KeraBear]

LOL! Frankenboobs! Funny how they call the bad half-melon implants "bolt-ons," ain't it?

They're alive! They're alive!!!! *mad laughter*

[karategrrl]

And yes, I would also be horrified to wake up and find a set of frankenboobs! That is just scary!

LOL! Frankenboobs! Funny how they call the bad half-melon implants "bolt-ons," ain't it?

[KeraBear]

Wow, I must have missed that post. Yeah, many women who have it done say they wished they'd gone bigger, and I think that motivates many surgeons to push for larger. One thing that REALLY bothers me is that I've heard of some surgeons going larger than the patient requested, on the table after she is anesthetized. Sometimes the dr. and patient can only agree of a range of size, and it's up to the dr. to make the final decision. My god, if I woke up to some massive "look at me" hooters when all I wanted was a full B, I'd be serously fucked up in the head.

I think they don't understand that if you're really itty-bitty, even small implants would make a HUGE difference. That's what I actually liked about spot-on's implants--they were really well-proportioned, surprisingly modest. I also think maybe that's why she had such a smooth recovery--smaller implants=less trauma.

That's just one of the myriad of reasons I can't do it--I'd only want to go a tad larger--not worth the trouble. I like being smallish.

Yeah, I feel ya, Karategrrl. As much as I talk about about how jealous I am of my sister's Cs, the truth is I would rather be on the smaller side. It would just be nice to have just a little more... enough to drop the "let" from my booblets!

And yes, I would also be horrified to wake up and find a set of frankenboobs! That is just scary!

[karategrrl]

>I went in for an augmetation consultation a couple years ago, and I have never felt more awkward in my life! I went to a female plastic surgeon because I thought she would be more empathetic, but she spent the whole session trying to convince me that a full B cup (which I had requested) would simply not be big enough to make a satisfying difference, and that I should go to at least a full C. She had me stuff some massive implants under my shirt and look in the mirror, and I couldn't help bursting into laughter. The implants felt so gross and unnatural, and I looked utterly ridiculous. I'm glad I had this appointment, because I thought for 10 years that I wanted a breast augmentation, and this cemented the fact that surgery is not for me. On the other hand, I have a couple of friends who went through with the procedure and they are both very happy with the results (one has had her implants for about 5 years, the other 3 years, and both were about my size pre-op.) I definitely understand why women do it, and I would never judge anyone poorly for making that decision.

Wow, I must have missed that post. Yeah, many women who have it done say they wished they'd gone bigger, and I think that motivates many surgeons to push for larger. One thing that REALLY bothers me is that I've heard of some surgeons going larger than the patient requested, on the table after she is anesthetized. Sometimes the dr. and patient can only agree of a range of size, and it's up to the dr. to make the final decision. My god, if I woke up to some massive "look at me" hooters when all I wanted was a full B, I'd be serously fucked up in the head.

I think they don't understand that if you're really itty-bitty, even small implants would make a HUGE difference. That's what I actually liked about spot-on's implants--they were really well-proportioned, surprisingly modest. I also think maybe that's why she had such a smooth recovery--smaller implants=less trauma.

That's just one of the myriad of reasons I can't do it--I'd only want to go a tad larger--not worth the trouble. I like being smallish.

[KeraBear]

Though I do understand the pressure to be bigger and the desire to do so, the "expectations" simultaneously piss me off and are one of the reasons I would probably never get augmented myself. I've said it before and I'll say it again--if the expectation was that smaller was better, women would be going to droves to plastic surgeons for REDUCTION surgery. It's our attitudes that need to change, not our bods.

YES. THIS. Although easier said than done. I still have many many bad boobie days, but I'll tell you what - I have gotten soooooooo much better since I came here.

Strongirl - thanks for answering my questions and sharing your experience. It's a shame that you have to keep those lil fugitive-wannabes under wraps most of the time. Frrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeddddoooooommm!! I am intrigued by your stories of these places and feel like it would be a big step towards body acceptance if i went at least once in my life. But i get scared as hell every time I think about it.

DeeRayy - yeah, i hate to say this, but it definitely sounds like you need to drop this therapist like a bad habit. Or talk to that awesome guy-friend of yours. He seems to "get it." But in all seriousness, you should request a new one. Do you think they could refer you to someone who specializes in BDD issues? Don't give up!

[DeeRayy]

speaking of all this talk of plastic surgery, i find myself confused about my feelings towards it right now. i mean, i'm in the process of getting into a healthier lifestyle since my family has never been very health nutty at all. and now that i'm making an effort to eat better and exercise i feel great! i have more energy and overall i just feel better about myself. but i still am so very self conscious about my chest. karategrrl, you said that what the men in the study liked about their girlfriends afterwards was their increase in confidence, and i know that confidence is what i'm really missing. i guess it just feels like surgery is my only choice sometimes. i know i was the person who said that whole thing about not being able to look in the mirror and say that the only way i can accept myself is with implants if i wouldn't want a guy to do the same, which is why i'm so conflicted. but i mean, this is my body and i'm the one that has to live in it everyday. but at the same time i cringe at the idea of having silicone boobs, and i fear that i'll be judged by others. see, so conflicted!

however, i'm not ruling out body dysmorphic disorder right now because if there's one thing i've noticed about my feelings towards my body is that i'm always obsessed with some type of flaw that in my eyes is huge and embarrassing. before it was my breasts, it was my nose. before it was my nose, it was my curly hair. you get the idea. and now it's starting to shift to my weight [even though i still am in no way over my feelings about my breasts either, but my focus right now is more so my weight than my breasts at the current moment] . i'm just never satisfied! it weighs me down so much, and it keeps me from just living my life sometimes. i can't diagnose myself, i know. but my darn counselor thinks this is all about my ex, and she doesn't get that i was pretty much just like this looooong before him. grrrr, i need a new therapist.

[babyblue]

LOL!!!

That bridal bitch!!! I am POed at how she treated you! Yes, YOU are the bride and it's all about how YOU want to look and how YOU feel most beautiful! Too bad you've already bought the dress--I'd bring my business elsewhere and tell her why to boot. My sis in law wore low-heeled brtidal shoes and changed later into brand-new canvas sneaks. We have a great photo of her lifitng up her dress and kicking her leg with the sneaker on, and a crowd of her friends watching and cheering.

Fuck that bridal beeeotch!!! Whew, I feel better.

Haha!!! I feel better just reading that! Thanks to everyone for reassuring me that I'm not just overreacting. I certainly wouldn't have minded if she had merely asked me whether or not I was interested in padding the top of my dress. I really felt as if she was indirectly saying "You would look so much better if you were taller and had bigger breasts," and that's what set me off! I specifically chose my dress because I think it flatters my body type, and while I have definitely never been the girl who has dreamed about her "perfect" wedding, I want to feel beautiful on the big day. I can do without the unsolicited advice of the "bridal bitch!" Yay for your sister-in-law and her awesome sneakers! Traditions are fine, but I think it's more important to be comfortable and to let your personality shine through. I let my bridesmaids pick their own dresses for this very reason. Each girl is gorgeous in her own way! I still have nightmares about the strapless fucshia bridesmaid dress I had to tape to my chest to keep from sliding off mid-aisle walk. I was so uncomfortable the whole night... Strapless tops always give me the oh-so-lovely "hot dogs" a.k.a. those squishy armpit-fat lines, even though I'm relatively thin.
karategrrl, that study sounds VERY interesting! I'd love to see the full results. As I mentioned before, I went in for an augmetation consultation a couple years ago, and I have never felt more awkward in my life! I went to a female plastic surgeon because I thought she would be more empathetic, but she spent the whole session trying to convince me that a full B cup (which I had requested) would simply not be big enough to make a satisfying difference, and that I should go to at least a full C. She had me stuff some massive implants under my shirt and look in the mirror, and I couldn't help bursting into laughter. The implants felt so gross and unnatural, and I looked utterly ridiculous. I'm glad I had this appointment, because I thought for 10 years that I wanted a breast augmentation, and this cemented the fact that surgery is not for me. On the other hand, I have a couple of friends who went through with the procedure and they are both very happy with the results (one has had her implants for about 5 years, the other 3 years, and both were about my size pre-op.) I definitely understand why women do it, and I would never judge anyone poorly for making that decision.

[karategrrl]

On a note related to the "real women have curves" thing, I looked up breast augmentation surgery stats yesterday and found some interesting things. First off, 300,000 (That's three HUNDRED THOUSAND) women in the U.S. had the procedure in 2010. Mainly, it seems (according to this survery, anyway) that most women who get augmented are thinner. They also tend to be youngish (under 30-35, I thinnk) and feel more "confident" with them despite also reporting that they overwhelmingly feel that portrayals and expectations of women's bodies are sexualized and unfair. Though I do understand the pressure to be bigger and the desire to do so, the "expectations" simultaneously piss me off and are one of the reasons I would probably never get augmented myself. I've said it before and I'll say it again--if the expectation was that smaller was better, women would be going to droves to plastic surgeons for REDUCTION surgery. It's our attitudes that need to change, not our bods. (I'm tryng to find the link but since I'm at work the site is blocked as "p0rn.") no long-term survey answers were available; those who responded to the survey had had the procedure a few months previous.

And not that we care about what men think as much as what we think, but also interesting was that they surveryed some men, too. All said they liked their partner's implants post-op, but the reason WHY was that her CONFIDENCE soared afterward. Seems that what they like best is not the bigger breasts per se but the bigger confidence. Interesting.


Hey, anyone have any updates from our sistah who had breast augmentation surgery? (I think it was "spot-on??") Been wondering how she is doing and feeling and I don't have her email address easily accessible. Figured I'd ask here before I pester her personally. And let me add that I DO respect her decision though it's not for me. Just hoping she's still doing well now that she's probably 2 or 3 months post-op.

[karategrrl]

I've been "illegally" top-free everywhere from Pueblo Reservoir here in Colorado, to a sailboat pulling into a harbor on Tortola, British Virgin Islands, where the captain asked me to put my top back on so he wouldn't lose his license. Oh yeah, my little girls do get around.

You made my day.

[karategrrl]

Funny thing is, I wrote a comic script based on this entire debate as well as the small breast discussion yet I have yet to flesh it out or draw it. Urgh, I should stop being lazy and do something about it because this story is meant to be told and should be told.

YES, YES! REPRESENT!!

Thank you for the "represent" reminder, strongirl. I should keep that in mind when I'm the odd duck in the room or on the beach--I'm not the one who doesn't belong, but the one who most needs to...to REPRESENT!

[strongirl]

Eris_Sweetleaf, if you have the talent and ability to use comic drawing as a medium for telling a story that uplifts and humanizes us all, you dang well better get to work, woman!

Kera, to answer your questions, I was maybe 20, 21 when I first went to the clothes optional hot springs that is still my favorite place on earth. I was a bit scared initially but my family had always been pretty accepting of body stuff and nudity around the house, so I think I was in a better place than people who don't run around naked at all, even at home. Honestly, I didn't have a hang-up about being small-breasted then, I was more worried about looking "fat" (which I wasn't but that was my body dysmorphism of choice at that age). And at first I did do a lot of "comparision looking" - checking out other people's bodies and running them through my internal assessment system of whether they looked good, whether the females looked better than me, etc. Plus there's the whole "sex = nudity or does it?" thing that comes up when you first start doing clothes optional stuff. But all that nutty thinking lasted maybe - an hour? A few hours? I've taken a lot of first-timer friends there over the years and it always amazes me how quickly most people get over their issues and just relax. There are always kids there, and older folks (even older than I am now, LOL). And it's in a beautiful natural setting. So it's actually difficult to stay tense or be unhappy about your appearance. It feels really good there.

The one downside is that it does spoil ya - I absolutely loathe swimsuits and resent having to wear one! Thus the "envelope-pushing" in other settings (plus it's naughty fun). I've been "illegally" top-free everywhere from Pueblo Reservoir here in Colorado, to a sailboat pulling into a harbor on Tortola, British Virgin Islands, where the captain asked me to put my top back on so he wouldn't lose his license. Oh yeah, my little girls do get around.

[Eris_Sweetleaf]

Ha, when I was in college a male friend told me I had "big ovaries", ie. the feminine equivalent of "big balls". I liked the expression and have used it since to compliment other women on their confidence...and it always gets a smile or a laugh.

On the "real beauty" event, I'll use an expression I got from my teenage son: Represent!!! It seems like a perfect opportunity for you as a petite woman to speak up and point out that body acceptance goes both ways - if it's ok to be "curvy" then it ought to be ok to be "skinny" too. Or whatever. Body acceptance means just that.

Represent, DeeRayy!

It is okay to be skinny, as long as you're not skinny in a way that actually damages your health (much like how being overweight can be damaging too) but I think the biggest problem is that images of anorexia, eating disorders and who suffers from them has been pushed into our faces so much that for a lot of people they qucikly forget that anyone who isn't 'curvy' isn't starving themselves.

Personally, I find it frustrating that a lot of women are using their personal suffrage as a way to gauge who deserves the most respect and often tune out other people who don't have problems like them. Of course, these are the drama queens but unfortunately like so many things in our culture, the loudest people get the most attention even if their cause is not doing ANYONE any sort of favor or good.

I want to see more body respect for all women, not just small chested or curvy women but ALL women. Its not a movement when one group has to be used as an example of what isn't human or beautiful so I guess it doesn't come to any surprise that I don't agree with women who say that only one size makes a real woman.

Scary thing is, these ladies are sounding just like the men who say the exact same thing...but I guess because they are women, what they say is uplifting despite the fact that its the same hurtful message. An insult will remain an insult, no matter who says it but people so quickly forget this. At least with this kind of thinking, its easy to find those who just want their asses-kissed and those who are willing to sit down and listen to the stories of EVERYONE, not just those who look like them.

Funny thing is, I wrote a comic script based on this entire debate as well as the small breast discussion yet I have yet to flesh it out or draw it. Urgh, I should stop being lazy and do something about it because this story is meant to be told and should be told.

[KeraBear]

Question for Strongirl - about these places you were talking about. How old were you when you first started going? Were you sorta scared at first?

[KeraBear]

That bridal bitch!!!
Fuck that bridal beeeotch!!! Whew, I feel better.

Seconded! Ohmygosh that makes me so angry too!! Reminds me of some bustier friends that I know who make their snide comments and suggestions about improving my chest, always trying to be "helpful" of course. As if we are people to be pitied somehow.

[karategrrl]

Haha!!! I love it! Although I'd be afraid that it would just sound continuously, much like the alarm of an unattended vehicle. Dickheads are taking over the world!!!

LOL!!!

That bridal bitch!!! I am POed at how she treated you! Yes, YOU are the bride and it's all about how YOU want to look and how YOU feel most beautiful! Too bad you've already bought the dress--I'd bring my business elsewhere and tell her why to boot. My sis in law wore low-heeled brtidal shoes and changed later into brand-new canvas sneaks. We have a great photo of her lifitng up her dress and kicking her leg with the sneaker on, and a crowd of her friends watching and cheering.

Fuck that bridal beeeotch!!! Whew, I feel better.

[anarch]

Ha, when I was in college a male friend told me I had "big ovaries", ie. the feminine equivalent of "big balls".

Myself, I like using "S/he's got gonads!" (or, "Get some gonads, sheesh...") Gender-neutral & the hard g makes an excellent springboard to inflect the rest of the word "-onads!" with a biting level of feeling.

babyblue, DeeRayy's right, you were NOT being too sensitive. It's infuriating to state your wishes and have someone disrespect them.

I don't see why "real beauty" campaigns can't be more inclusive. "Real beauty comes in all shapes and sizes"...has that already been a slogan for something or other? Something like that doesn't support one class of people at the expense of another. Anyway, small boobs don't only come on small body types. Reality is more complicated than advertisers like to acknowledge.

[DeeRayy]

babyblue, you were in no way being too sensitive. that woman was completely out of line to suggest that you add cups into the top. if you had inquired about it that would have been one thing, but for her to try and push it upon you is unacceptable! it's YOUR wedding dress and should be exactly as you want it. and for her to request that you still keep it in mind?? ohhhh my blood would have been boiling! boiling i say!

with that said, don't let her get you down! you're getting married and that's a beautiful thing. you're going to look GORGEOUS in your wedding gown [and i'm sure your fiance will agree with me on that]. that lady obviously knows nothing about how to treat a bride to be.


*note on the dove presentation. it was pretty much what i expected- a lot of talking about how you don't have to be a size two to be beautiful. i honestly get tired of hearing this time and time again because i grew up in a family of women who constantly criticize the thin women of the world. however, i guess i just have to keep in mind that obesity and excess weight is a growing problem here and that there are probably more women out there who can relate to the dove campaign than the small breast support group. it's so cliche to mention that the grass is always greener on the other side, but it's so true. anyway, she did do a very brief story on a woman she knew of who was naturally very thin and longed for curves. the basic point of the story was to tell the audience never to pass judgment on others because you never know what they struggle with. i appreciated that story but i still really wish the campaign would focus on more than just the desire to be thin. i mean, that's not the only thing women struggle with [as shown by this forum].

i couldn't help but feel like such a minority in that sea of people!