[maddy29]

that is so interesting about the hpv stuff. i do think the worst thing about it NOW is the stigma. But before, i really thought that if you got it, you were just screwed (ha). like, you'd have warts all the time, or a lot of the time and it'd be painful and grody. but clearly that's misinformation.

it's funny looking back, cause her boyfriend was such an a-hole that i was just all "oh he's an a-hole and gave it to you, of course he's denying it." lol-whoops!

so, why isn't there a test? and why can't we tell if it's in our body? i also read a while back about a vaccine for it? do you know anything about that?

yeah, my boyfriend is a sweet dude. i put him through a lot, esp at the beginning. he's my first ever relationship, and first real sex, so i was fucking terrified of just about everything. i do feel bad that he thought that i thought he was "dirty" (his words), but i had to do what i had to do!

[bella coola]

I don't know that *everyone* will end up with it, mind you anything is possible :S

The friend in college - the bf couldn't have known whether or not it was from him, but on the same token - it's *possible* that she contracted it from a previous partner even before the two years that she had been with him. There really just isn't any way of knowing! I've got a bit of a history, so although I've pondered I haven't spent any real time trying to figure out the source.

I think that if the general population is properly educated, the stigma will dissipate. And for many of us, that's the worst part of it. Although there are strains that can become cancerous, the treatment for that doesn't quite sound like a picnic in the park. And yes some folk do have frequent outbreaks - I believe that for the most part it hinges on a person's immune system, how well they take care of themselves. It really isn't the end of the world.

That's cool, I was thinking about how awesome it is that your man was so accomodating for the sake of your comfort. You know - I'm not 100% sure what I was asking either! Heh. I think I wanted to understand what source of information you require for - ah, 'risk assessment' if you will!

Anyway. Glad to see another point of view, thanks for sharing

[maddy29]

bella-that wasn't a rant-it was education! i don't know enough about hpv, i've always felt soo ultra scared about it, so it's interesting to hear the stuff about repression and even clearing completely.

it's true that a lot of people don't know they have it, and yeah-one of my frineds in college got it and her ex-boyfriend was like "oh it couldn't be from me." even though he's the only one she'd slept with in 2 years. But it took a looong time for it to show up on her pap! like, over a year.

do you think eventually everyone will just have the virus in their body and it won't even be a thing we have to worry about? cause, don't some people have frequent outbreaks? i mean, not everyone's is repressed/supressed, right?

i'm glad you are passionate about educating people! that's awesome:)

about your first sentence- it's not that i didn't trust him, it's that it was SUPER great to hear the nurses voice, and that he was ok with me hearing it. it's not like i thought he was lying, i just thought it was so cool to really feel more safe.

i mean, most times when people have sex with people, they don't trust them with their lives, right? i mean, i trust him with my life now, after two + years, but usually when you start havingsex with someone, you aren't at that point, right?

maybe i'm just confused about what you're asking?

pepper- i think this says it all:

"if someone Needs to know those details in order to approve of me as partner material then i am not partner material for them"

and, i think it answers princess's original question quite nicely, too. if it upsets you when someone asks, then don't sleep with them....pretty simple.

this is also a great sentence:

"that i won't lower my standards of what's ok for me to make someone else comfortable. meh, i beleive in compromise, just not compromising myself."

that's basically all i've been trying to say (albeit obviously not very successfully). WHat I need to feel comfortable is different from what others need to feel comfortable. and that's fine, to each their own.

also, i feel there is misunderstanding about what i wanted to know frm my boyfriend. I CERTAINLY didn't want to tell him every little sexual thing i've ever done, and didn't want that from him. i wouldn't want to be judged on dumbass stuff i've done either. but asking for information, and judging are two very different things.

ok, i'm done with this thread for now.

[pepper]

bella, same with herpes. you can be a carrier and not ever have a breakout but still infect your partner(s). and they DON'T test for it because nearly 75% of the population has been exposed (pretty much the same stats as below). a clean test doesn't mean a clean human, unfortunately.
sex is a scary business. there is certainly a level of trust inherent in the act. either that or stupidity.

as for being asked about my sexual past, it's that i do not wish to be evaluated based on what i may or may not have done over the course of my lifetime and it offends me that someone might feel that they have the right to put my life, mistakes, loves, trials, troubles, blissful moments, under a microscope to pick apart. it's just none of their damn business and i don't care who they are. if someone Needs to know those details in order to approve of me as partner material then i am not partner material for them. i believe in privacy, a person's right to own their own experiences, and to not be judged by what they have done but rather who they are.
i've done so much in my life, it's all added up to the fantastic person that i am. i'm not going to be minimized into this act and that act. i find the whole idea repulsive. maybe it's because i'm older, more experienced? maybe not. i think it's because i have a high level of self respect (not that anyone else Doesn't and that's their reason) and that i won't lower my standards of what's ok for me to make someone else comfortable. meh, i beleive in compromise, just not compromising myself.

[bella coola]

Wow. So even though you don't trust him to tell you the truth when it could come down to life/death - you still sleep with him? Not trying to be critical or anything of course, just trying to see your point.


'i've known too many women who've gotten diseases (mostly hpv) from guys they "trusted" and who said they'd been tested, etc. '

In my opinion, this is the tricky-est statement yet!!! They don't test for HPV other than pap tests, and diagnosing genital warts (at least where I'm at), and often people can carry it completely without symptoms. These women could have gotten it from any of their partners, at any time and they would never know who gave it to them unless one of the partners actually had symptoms. They could have used condoms 100% of the time, and still contracted HPV because it is spread by skin-to-skin contact. So it's entirely possible that all of those men had been tested, and maybe the women that contracted HPV didn't even get it from who they thought (it can lay dormant in the system for weeks, months, years..). The nurses could have left messages, and the women could have listened to those messages and they still could have contracted HPV. With some stds, it isn't about trust - it's purely about risk! Couple last things while I'm still here on the soap box:

75% of sexually active people in North America have had or will have (or do have) a strain of HPV

If you have had sex with two or more partners, chances are you'll be part of that 75%

80% of above-mentioned North Americans don't know they have it (even if they test regularly)

Recent studies suggest that the body either suppresses, or clears HPV from the system typically within 6 months - 2 years

I am passionate about the subject because I have it myself - more people NEED to know more about it, and the docs NEED to do more research about it!!!

Thank you for reading, please pardon my ranting.

[maddy29]

to bella again re: this statement

"If I felt that I needed to get a guy to have his doctor phone me with his test results, well - I think that that is an unhealthy lack of trust!"

I did say I had trust issues, right? But also, I think this brings up an interesting point about the whole safe sex thing. Why is it enough for someone to "say" they've been tested and they are fine. That's not enough for me. Even knowing someone for 4 months, and yeah, pretty much "trusting" them, isn't enough for me to trust them with my life!

I was happy that my boy had me listen to the nurses message on his voice mail. it made me feel like i was taking really great care of myself and my body. it made me feel more relaxed. i felt proud that i could request these things, to keep myself safe. (hasn't always been like that and i'm lucky i never got anything). so for me, it was empowering. it was about not ignoring the bad or risky sides of sex. it was about looking at the good and the bad, and not trying to pretend there aren't risks. it was important to me.

i wish that when you got tested, they'd give you an official document that states when and what you were tested for, and the results. i don't know why it's so secretive and stuff. i've known too many women who've gotten diseases (mostly hpv) from guys they "trusted" and who said they'd been tested, etc. so no, i'm never going to just believe a guy's word. UNLESS i am willing to take the risk, which i am not. some are, that's fine, but at least admit that it's a higher risk! do'nt try to deny that it's not risky to some degree.

[maddy29]

Pepper, the thread is not about me, but I posted several responses, and people responded to my opinions, using strong language like: "entitled" "have the right" "judgement." This is SOO not what I was talking about, and it's frustrating to not be heard. I can manage my frustration, and it's ok for me to feel upset in here, so please don't tell me how to feel, or what to be frustrated about. I did feel somewhat attacked, because of the language that was being used. It wasn't just Oh i disagree. It was "how dare anyone ask me that!!!!!" How DARE anyone think they are entitled to that information!!!!! No one ever said anything about being forced to give up that info.

Also, yeah, people seemed really defensive in this thread, and the more I wrote, the more defensive people seemed to get. That made me think I was pushing some sort of button in people. If that's not it, then what is it? Cause I truly would like to know, not in a snarky way. What's so upsetting about someone asking you how many people you've slept with? Why is that SUUUUCH a horrible thing, in your eyes (not just pepper, everyone).?

The reason I told people to go over to the STD thread is because there is a related conversation going on over there with some of the people from this thread. and yeah, I think that people are too cavalier with what they think of as "safe sex."


To respond to bella-yes, that manipulative thing "don't you trust me?" that's exactly what i was responding to! I could just see a guy saying that when he doesn't want to use a condom, ya know? But yes, sex is a combo of trust and risk, definitely. It's not like I think I'm all safe because I'm monogamous, there are still risks! (if he cheats....).

[pepper]

maddy, this conversation isn't about You in particular. if that's the way you're going to hear others opinions and thoughts then be prepared to get frustrated a LOT. this is an open forum where we discuss OUR feelings about stuff, don't take it so personally.

"Anyways, not trying to start any shit here, but this discussion is really frustrating me. By the number of upset responses, I can tell I've pushed people's buttons. Might be worth looking at why y'all are so upset about the idea of someone asking you that."

if that ain't trying to push people's buttons (and the "head over to the std thread comment) then i don't know what is girl. seems an awful lot like an attack to me when no one is attacking you, just the perspective that a person's private life is anyone else's business. i have no problem with my past, sexually speaking or otherwise. the problem i have is with another person thinking that they have a right to evaluate and judge me based on that. if you like me, if you trust me, if you want to be with me it had better be based on something more solid than a number.

for the record, i haven't been with a ton of people, Way less than most of my girlfriends that's for sure. not that i would tell someone that to reassure them about my sexuality because i think using that as a measure is stupidity.

once again, that isn't about YOU so don't go making yourself all frustrated and offended over it.

[bella coola]

It's good to get people thinking. I don't think anyone means to be rude here, at least I hope not!

I agree that it's a really tricky statement. But trust is tricky too, it's tough to know when to do it. If I felt that I needed to get a guy to have his doctor phone me with his test results, well - I think that that is an unhealthy lack of trust! I think that it's about trust and risk - when you're choosing to trust someone, there's always risk involved. Otherwise it wouldn't matter if you trusted them or not, right? So it's definetly not something that a partner should ever put on you "Don't you trust me?" (I've had some master manipulators pull that trash on me, I totally get where you're coming from!) but maybe it's something to ponder. If he would withold STD info from me I sure as HELL would not want to be sleeping with him, for the principle just as much as practical reasons.

[maddy29]

Bella and octin- thanks for the responses. Sorry if I was super rude, I was feeling really frustrated.

The initial question was about "how to answer if a new partner asks my number." I think that princess was more worried about how to answer, or if she had to answer, and people gave their opinions on that. and, of course all of our opinions are different.

It just seemed that some people were soooo offended and upset by the fact that I wanna know more stuff about my sex partners than they do. That was weird. I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should do, so it's annoying when people are telling me I'm rude, entitled, etc etc., for asking that question.

And yeah, I was happy when he said 9, not 90 or 900. I don't care how many people you've fucked, but I care about how many my boyfriend has, and that's my opinion, and my preference. If my boyfriend had gotten offended or upset or refused to answer, I would have been very suspicious and would have thought he was hiding something. Like I said, I have trust issues

But yeah, the way he was willing to share some stuff and talk about it really made me feel good, cause it's hard to talk about our pasts. But really, I told him about my incest, and that's "personal", but I wanted him to know before we had sex. That was important to me, so I don't think it's unfair or whatever, for me to get info from him too.

To the rest of you-head over to "our bodies" and check out the HPV/STD thread. Do you ask the same questions before giving or receiving oral? Or just for vaginal sex?

bella, i think this sentence "Well.. if I trust him enough that I decide I want to have sex with him, then shouldn't I trust him when he says that he has been tested?" is verrrrry tricky! That kinda reminds me of something a guy would say when he wants to not use a condom or something. Of course, at some point, you gotta trust, or just take the risk, cause you really never can be 100% sure, sadly. I'm not sure if it's about trust though, or about how much risk you are willing to take on?

[bella coola]

Hey maddy & octin. Here's my two cents, I can only speak for myself but I think the others may be on a similar page. I'm just representing my own opinion. I don't want to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't do, because of course I certainly don't apprecaite people doing the same thing to me. Regardless of what I say/believe, I will always respect everyone else's opinions and offer my apologies if I come across otherwise.

'y'all are pretty trusting-you take someone at their word if they say they've been tested? You take them at their word that they don't have HIV or HPV, and then you have sex with a condom?'

Well.. if I trust him enough that I decide I want to have sex with him, then shouldn't I trust him when he says that he has been tested?

Although I have made some bad decisions in the past, I believe in having 'the birth control/STD' conversation before the act without question. And of course the sharing of personal information is required. It is absolutely necessary to talk about sex, but I don't believe that there is a need to disclose the specific number of partners. It does not give you any facts about their sexual health. It may suggest at how 'at risk' they are for infection, but it only takes one partner to infect you, right?

From what I've read, I want to know is it fair to say that you (maddy) believe that you can learn about them by the *way* they answer this question? See how comfortable they are in telling you, and that?

[_octinoxate]

Hey maddy, I understand your perspective and I think you make several good points (esp. the idea that it's dangerous to take a casual sex partner at their word re: STIs and testing). It seems to me like one reason that you have such a different take on this than several other posters is that it seems as though you're mostly referring to having this conversation within the context of a relationship (where it certainly seems to me like there would and should be a higher degree of openness) while others and largely talking about having this conversation with a more casual partner. I may be wrong in that impression. But if it's the case, well, it does make a lot of sense to me that different things are ok to ask your boyfriend/girlfriend v. someone you've just met. You know?

[maddy29]

y'all are pretty trusting-you take someone at their word if they say they've been tested? You take them at their word that they don't have HIV or HPV, and then you have sex with a condom? To me, that's risky and scary. I'm not judging, just stating a different opinion. I don't have casual sex, I have sex with a man I'm in love with. And I certainly didn't feel "entitled" to know that information, I simply asked. I don't know why everyone is getting all riled up about that. Honestly, this thread is pissing me right off.

I got to know my boyfriend BEFORE we had sex. We were friends for a few months, things changed, we slowly worked up to sex, and the std conversations and past partners conversations. I didn't ask him this on the 3rd date, because I wouldn't sleep with him (or anyone) on the 3rd date. Again, I'm not judging those who do, but I choose to do things differently.

When you say "there's not a good reason to ask how many partners" that pisses me the fuck off! Maybe there's not a good reason for YOU, but I'm NOT YOU. So, I have a good reason- my reason. So don't fucking tell me what I can ask my own fucking boyfriend. God. For me, it mattered how many people he'd had sex with. I wanted to know how he thinks about sex. Cause to me, sex is an emotional as well as physical connection, and I wanted to know how he felt. I got good information, information that I wanted and needed to have.


AND, you can tell a lot about a guy by how he TALKS about sex, his past sexual experiences, about STD's, safe sex, etc. I feel like people are kinda trying to justify having casual sex here, and there's no need to justify it. I guess it's really weird to me that it's still so "not ok" to talk about sex! I'd much rather get the feel for him through talking, then "having him rubbing his junk right on me." I mean, why would you wait until his cock is on you to to ask the questions? Isn't that uh, just a little bit too late?

Anyways, not trying to start any shit here, but this discussion is really frustrating me. By the number of upset responses, I can tell I've pushed people's buttons. Might be worth looking at why y'all are so upset about the idea of someone asking you that.

[onyva]

I would very strongly resent a guy feeling entitled to know how many partners I've had and what I did with them as though he is considering buying a car and wants to know how many kilometres have been run up on the odometer.

No one is entitled to that knowledge. I may choose to share it with friends or lovers if it's part of a conversation and will not be received with judgement. I'll share my stories if we're spinning yarns about our pasts in good fun. I'll share them in the sack if I think it'll turn him on. But I'm never going to respect a man who evaluates my fitness as a sexual partner by the things I did in private with other people before he even met me. And I respect his past and don't need to know anything he doesn't choose to share with me.

With a mind to safety I will say when I was last tested for the full round of STDs and I'll ask when he was. The rest isn't relevant to that conversation.

[erinjane]

Yeah, talking about past sexual exploits never bothered me. Heh, kind of a comparing notes conversation.

[pepper]

hee, sex resume.

i get totally turned on hearing about sex my partner has had. that's part of what i meant by "really in context". i'd share for that reason (names changed to protect the innocent, heh heh) and i like to listen to exploits but that is a whole 'nuther thing as far as i'm concerned.

[venetia]

I agree with Pepper and also in some ways with Maddy.

The way I see it, what's wong with saying something like "it's been X months since my last HIV and diseases test, when was yours?" THAT is the info I want to know, not how many partners they have had or how it felt or any other personal info. Later, if you decide to have monogamous sex without condoms or something like that, then you can plan for up to date tests, the three month window etc. And I agree the way people act is a dead giveaway.

I agree with Maddy in that for me, knowing some stuff about each other is part of an emotionally intimate relationship, but you can't force that. That stuff comes up naturally in conversations over the years, just like every other aspect of your past life. It's a process about give and take, sharing etc, and what you learn is in context with everything else about the other person's life, attitude and personality. I can't say it turns me on at all but it's part of who we are as people. There will always be secrets and personal things as well.

This is very different from being presented with some sort of Sex Resume on your third date.

[sybarite]

Absolutely agree, pepper. As I'm sure someone else has said: 'sex is a good way to get to know someone.' Sex is instinctive rather than learnt by observation for the most part, so if they have generous instincts (for example) they'll come out during sex. IME anyway.

And yes, if someone is being an asshole about condoms, that tells you a lot... and it can be hard to stop but you have every right to. After all, if they are balking at condoms it gives you a great reason to call the whole thing off.

[pepper]

word girl. the "do you use condoms every time, no genital contact without them?" and "do you get regularly tested?" questions are the best measures i've ever found.
Except... how a boy acts with you when you start to get it on is a DEAD GIVE AWAY as to how he acts in general. if he's right in there, no conversation, trying to rub his junk on you, obviously not bacteria conscious, etc, you can pretty much see where he stands on thangs right then and there. of course, it's hard to be rational and say, "um, hello? yes, STOP now please..." right then but... that's where what you yourself are like comes into play. how careful of a lover are you? and what will you allow to happen in a moment of passion?
this is how "accidents" happen after all. no one intends to get pregnant unexpectedly or catch something either.

[bella coola]

Hey all, sorry to pop out of nowhere. But this was a big issue to me too at one time, and so I did some figuring and formed my own firm opinion. Here it is!

First of all: if you sleep with one "Joe Schmo", or you sleep with twenty-one, and you tell your sig. other your number of Joe Schmos: it will tell him little of how likely you are to have an STD (from what I understand). Because, you don't know how many people the Joe's slept with, and you definetly don't know how many people the Joe's previous partners had slept with. Catch my drift? Once you really get you're feet with, you're at risk. Even with a condom (segway)...

Point two: although they *help* prevent transmission, condoms are NOT near 100% in avoiding HPV (genital warts) or HSV (herpes). Right - the ones that don't go away! Because they are spread by skin-to-skin contact. Even if your partner has been tested out the ying yang (cough) and is 100% honest with you, s/he may have either without even knowing it. They say that if you have had TWO OR MORE sexual partners you are highly likely to contract at least one strain of HPV (some wart-causing, some cancer-causing). That's with or without a love glove. 75% of North America's sexually active population has HPV. You can give the life story of each of your sexual partners, to any future ones - and nobody will ever know any better which STDs you may have!!!

Big tangent, really sorry. Also, a lot of people that ask the 'number' may have a right, and a wrong answer already set in their head. I agree Pep, it's personal and I don't think there's a good reason for asking it. "Do you get tested regularly, and have you ever found anything" is the best info they can give you!