[culturehandy]

I think that those of us who are able to orgasm from vaginal intercourse should be proud of that.

I have to admit, is it hard for me that I can't come from oral sex, absolutely. It has nothing to do with the technique of the man who is going down on me, it's just not enough for me. Would I like to cum on someone's face? Absolutely.

I'm with RV, that when Susie says stuff like this, it's shitty. I don't feel freakish, I love the fact that I can come from deep dickin' (RV, I love this saying). But the problem is that when sex educators say things like this, it also affects a partner. I can imagine that not coming from oral sex can have an affect on the giver's ego, they may feel like they are doing something wrong, and it doesn't help when myth's are being perpetuated that women can only come from oral sex or specifically clitoral stimulation. Especially from a so-called expert.

I understand that sex is not about your partner's ego, but you want it to be a good experience for both people involved. and when one feels the are satisfying their partner, that has an affect on the whole experience. Especially when people, when first experimenting, don't know what a clitoris is, then they do find out, and it's rammed downed their throats (especially men) to focus on the clit FOCUS ON THE CLIT, they do and still nothing happens. How is this at all beneficial? Sex education should be about all possibilities. To me solely focusing on the clit in oral with women, is like telling someone the only thing important on a man's dick is the head, well we all know there is clearly more to sucking dick than sucking on the head only.

I've had so many conversations with men who say the women they sleep with don't come from intercourse, and I tell them I'm the opposite, but it comes with conditions, so to speak. Hey sure I can come, like clockwork, from vaginal or anal intercourse (thank you gspot from the ass stimulation) but I cannot come from oral for the life of me. That's really hard, because I really, really want to.

[roseviolet]

Prophecy Grrl, I think you've misunderstood our problem.

None of us have a problem with the technical advice Susie gave this specific person in this specific instance. That is not the issue. Clearly that particular guy needed to communicate with his girlfriend & ask her what she likes - and if she's like most women on the planet, then she comes from external clitoral stimulation.

Note: "most". Not ALL.

Our problem stems completely from the very first portion of her advice when she said that "no woman" comes from "intercourse alone". That simply isn't true. She should have said that most women do not come from intercourse only. There is a HUGE difference.

I am a woman who almost exclusively comes from intercourse alone. I find it offensive when a sex educator & respected expert claims that what I experience is false, fictional - that it does not exist & that the very notion that it exists should be completely wiped from the English language. Am I experiencing these orgasms because my internal clitoral tissue has been stimulated? Possibly. But it's happening during intercourse alone - something Susie says is impossible. Why? Just because it's never happened to her? I don't understand.

I've said this before: I know I'm supposed to be the rare exception. I understand that most advice columnists out there need to talk more about the clitoris - with plenty of focus on stimulating the external glans because the majority of women climax in that way. But that doesn't mean these columnists should go to the extreme position that the rest of us do not even exist.

I'm not a fuckin' dodo bird, okay? I exist. My orgasms exists. But when a sex expert like Susie Bright says that my type of orgasm doesn't ever happen, then it makes me feel like something is wrong with me. Believe me, Prophesy Girl, I honestly have felt broken and messed up because of statements like this from people like Susie Bright. When I first made an effort to learn more about sex, I was striving to be a better educated, sexually aware feminist, but statements like hers made me feel small. I honestly thought that maybe there was something physiologically wrong with me. Maybe I didn't have a clitoris. Or maybe it was defective or deformed. Maybe what I was feeling wasn't really an orgasm after all. For a time I had trouble climaxing because I'd gotten this idea that I was wrong & that external clitoral orgasms were the only way to go. Is that fucked up? Of course! But I was young & vulnerable.

I'm older now and I know better. That's why I'm speaking up.

All we want her to say is that most women do not come from intercourse alone. That's all. It may look like a small change, but it makes a big difference to a lot of us.

[prophecy_grrl]

I dunno, I have always liked Susie Bright. I also think for the specific question she responded to in the first post, the answer may have been overly harsh/snarky, but not wrong - the woman in question was *not* able to have vaginal orgasms, and rather than continuing to try something that's obviously unsuccessful, it makes sense to say, "hey how 'bout the clitoris." I totally understand that hearing a so-called expert say that the way you achieve orgasm is wrong, or worse not "real" is incredibly insulting and frustrating, but I think Susie is coming from a place of counteracting many decades of anti-clitoris thinking and the idea that women *need* penetration to have an orgasm. For those of us are who more sexually enlightened, it seems a little quaint, but I'm sure there's plenty of men and women who still think that way. Perhaps the man she gave the advice to was one of them.

I did read the medical journal article covering the research of the woman who discovered (through examining cadavers) that the clitoral glans extends internally all around the labia, vagina, and anus and that the part that is actually external is tiny fraction of the entire clitoris. It may be a few years old, but I am trying to find the article to post. Anyway, she says that all orgasms are indeed clitoral, they just don't all happen as a result of direct clitoral stimulation. This why many women can and do have vaginal orgasms even though the vagina itself does not have many nerve endings. It also explains why orgasms feel so different depending on where you're stimulated. I thinks it's fascinating!

The combo orgasm, where it's almost like 2 simultaneous orgasm at once (1 direct clitoral, 1 vaginal), is the holy grail. I've gotten there maybe a dozen times in my life and only after lots of foreplay and several smaller orgasms first, but holy crap. Personally, I just like any kind of orgasm.

ETA: so, the actual journal article is subscription only, but I found the BBC Health article summarizing the research!

[culturehandy]

I've never been a huge fan of the advice she's given. Some is okay, but some, in the case we are discussing is such bullshit, that when she back tracks or attempts to further explain, it makes her seem like she has no fucking clue what she's talking about.

[roseviolet]

I notice she's posted a follow-up article on Jezebel back-tracking a bit and talking about how the clitoris extends into the body. Didn't take back what she said though, or acknowledge she got it wrong - not only do some women come through intercourse alone, for some of us it's the quickest and easiest way. I really hate a hand heading clit-wards during sex, it's totally off-putting!

I saw that follow up article, too, and I also thought it was not nearly enough.

For those of you who didn't see them, here are links. The comments are very interesting.
Article #1: http://jezebel.com/5159394/sexpert-susie-b...ne=true&s=x
Article #2: http://jezebel.com/5160202/sexpert-susie-b...ne=true&s=x

First of all, I want to say that I understand that most women orgasm through stimulation of the clitoral glans. I definitely think this info needs to get out more. For ages and ages, so-called experts have ignored the existence of clitoral orgasms or described them as "immature" (fuck you, Freud) or somehow less than other types of orgasm. That's just wrong & unfair. ALL orgasms are good things. Whatever works for you is GOOD & I definitely encourage everyone to be happy with their orgasms, no matter how or where they are achieved.

However! As we strive to spread the word about clitoral orgasms, that does not mean we should go so far as to deny the very existence of other types of orgasm. That is why I have a problem with Susie Bright.

My problem with her original post on Jezebel was when she said that "no woman" comes from "intercourse". She went so far as to say she wanted to strike that notion from the English language. That's just wrong and as a self-proclaimed "sexpert", she should know better. Despite the fact that numerous Jezzies stepped up and said, "That's wrong. I orgasm through intercourse," Susie still didn't take it back.

In the follow up post she described the internal tissues that are connected to the clitoral glans and spread inwardly and wrap around the vagina. So maybe she's trying to say that when we're coming from intercourse, we're not really having intercourse, but instead we're experiencing another type of internal clitoral stimulation(?). Sounds like a hell of a lot of back-peddling to me. It's not as if we're going to strike the word "intercourse" from the English language just to please her whims.

[culturehandy]

RV, heh, deep dickin', that fucking rocks.

Anyhows, the way I cum, I can com through masturbation, but it has to be with a toy, believe me, many a man has tried with fingers only on my clit and it just doesn't work, I think I had one orgasm from oral sex, when I was 16 or something, nothing since, and I've been with some master pussy eaters.

The way I orgasm, like clockwork, is when I'm on top and I have a dick in me, I have a combination of both clit and gspot, because when I ride a man, I get to work my clit the way I want, but and to be perfectly blunt here, I'm also stuffed full. And my orgasms are intense, if it's a with partner orgams, it's like a whole body experience, I tighten up, grip his dick and I cum all over him.

I don't get the same thing if I masturbate with clit stimulation alone. As for oral, I couldn't honestly tell you.

So, I've reread the answer, and here we are;

Susie: Of course she doesn't come "from intercourse alone." No woman does. I'd love to strike that phrase from the English language.

The way I interpret this is that no woman comes from intercourse alone, she doesn't really say anything about the clit or not. There are so many different positions, some that rock the clit, some that rock the gspot, but to tell you the truth, I can ONLY cum from intercourse or masturbation and as I said, nothing rocks me world like some, to use RV's saying (which I love) deep dickin'.

Or something deep in general. I say this because I had the wonderful experience of fisting. We got mid palm in me, so it wasn't a full fist, but damn if it wasn't an experience to remember, there really wasn't any clit stimulation, I was literally just stuffed full of hand, and had parts of me that had never been touched like that before. It was incredibly intense, and if my pussy wasn't so sore (from getting fucked before hand! HA!) I could have very easily came.

[Persiflager]

Damn damn damn! Really want to post properly but think it might be a trifle risky at work. Suffice it to say I am another Susie Bright naysayer. Will edit to add details later.

ETA: I notice she's posted a follow-up article on Jezebel back-tracking a bit and talking about how the clitoris extends into the body. Didn't take back what she said though, or acknowledge she got it wrong - not only do some women come through intercourse alone, for some of us it's the quickest and easiest way. I really hate a hand heading clit-wards during sex, it's totally off-putting!

[bunnyb]

And here was me thinking I was weird for NOT having vaginal orgasms... Although I was confused (I'm no sexpert either, kitten) and thought that penetrative orgasms were when you had clitoral stimulation during penetration. I can't orgasm -or orgasm the way I like- through intercourse alone and prefer direct clitoral stimulation before, during or after... It seems that most of us think we're weird somehow.

[rudderlesschild]

Susie Bright or no, it has been kind of a pervasive idea that women cannot/do not reach orgasm from penetration. I don't know how... contemporary the idea is. But when I was just a wee bloomin' lass, I used to read my mom's old Women's Almanacs and such from the '70's, and that was like their mantra: clitoris, clitoris, clitoris.

Maybe it was just such a new concept... or maybe they were trying to distance themselves from the phallocentric "normal" view of sexuality at the time. Dunno.

But I can (and did, even then, with the aid of the shower head and my own digits) reach orgasm either way. And while cluing women in to the idea that no, not every woman gets there from penetration alone (whatever porn and romance novels would have us believe), I don't think that totally denying or marginalizing the existence of the vaginal orgasm serves any of us well, either.

I was so very confused... and I did begin to doubt my own sense of geography. Maybe the clit was this iceberg-ish thing that extended wa-a-ay down into what I'd always believed was my vagina...!

And as for G-spot orgasms, I didn't learn that little trick till I was 27. Proper toy, proper teacher.

[stargazer]

i read susie bright's article. i totally read it differently. i didn't feel she was saying that clitoris stimulation is the only way to take a woman over the top. i interpreted her response as being snarky to a man wanting to know how to get his partner to climax with intercourse. i took her response to encourage the man to ask his partner what pleasures her, not susie. also, to think outside of the box with sex. no pun intended.

"I love deep dickin'!"

rose, this should be your new tagline. awesome.

[candycane_girl]

Any time I've had a G spot orgasm it has been with the use of fingers or a properly shaped toy. I think it's kind of difficult (though possible) to achieve that kind of orgasm with a dick.

[roseviolet]

Kitten, since I started that other conversation, I figured I should reply. I can only speak from my own experience. I get a feeling that CH might be more knowledgeable on this subject.

My orgasms usually come from deep vaginal penetration. It's most effective if the guy hits my cervix. I typically need a minute to work up to the point where I'm stimulated enough for that to feel good, but it doesn't take too long. When I climax, the sensations can vary. Most of the time it's a deep, pulsing, contracting feeling or an opening, "blooming" sensation. When it's really good, those feelings radiate out into a sparkly, tingle that goes down to my toes.

My husband can actually feel when I climax. I asked him what it feels like from his point of view and he says it's hard to describe. He says I sometimes feel tighter, but that really isn't it, either. He just says it feels better somehow. Sweeter. Maybe we'll go on a fact finding mission later so he can come up with some more descriptive terms.

*cough*

I'm not sure about g spot stimulation. From what I've read, the g spot is at a fairly shallow place in the vaginal canal, so I don't think that's what I'm experiencing. As for clitoral orgasms, that has only happened to me a few times in my life. I remember it definitely seemed to have a higher pitch, if that makes sense. Your bell metaphor sounds a lot like what I remember.

I agree that all orgasms are good orgasms. Whatever feels good is good!

Funny story:
One night when I was at a bar with a bunch of friends, the conversation turned to sex. Unfortunately, I had drank a bit too much at that point and ... well, during a sudden lull in conversation I proclaimed, "I love deep dickin'!" loud enough to be heard by several bystanders. To top it off, the music on the juke box had ended at just that precise moment. Basically, my love of deep, penetrative intercourse echoed throughout the bar. My friends have never let me live this down. You can hardly blame them!

[kittenb]

A conversation in another thread has lead to me to ask this question. I feel kind of stupid that I don't know the answer but I am no one's idea of a sex-pert.

Some people (apparently Suzi Bright) believe that woman can only have clitoral orgasms. Well, I can have clitoral orgasms. However, sometimes my orgasms feel...deeper. Kind of like a deep thruming as opposed to the high and clear bell of a clitoral orgasm. It almost always happens when I am on top. So is that a G-Spot orgasm? Dosn't the whole idea of the G-Spot mean that women can have vaginal orgasms as well as clit orgasms? Why is this even an important debate? As long as everyone is having orgasms and no one is getting hurt why are some people still vested in teaching that we can only have clit orgasms?

I am very confused.

[auralpoison]

The nasal spray is a baffler, but I've had experience with the other & it is AWESOME. One of the perks of fucking a scientist is that they're curious & like to experiment.

[stargazer]

Huh?

[kittenb]

Consider letting him know early in the day if you want to have sex that night. Text him something dirty and make him think about it all day. That might help. Sure works on me.

[hellcat]

Good question Laurenzorro! I was just there for 3 years and wasn't able to find a solution. I tried to send him saucy emails during the day to get him ready for later, I tried to surprise him when he got home from work, I tried cleaning/cooking to get into his pants, gave massages, wore slutty tops, flirted with his friends (...thought maybe he'd get jealous and relcaim me- yes I know), herbal libido enhancers, booze, pron, I also tried waiting. After five weeks of 0 action he didn't even know. Ugh.

Oh, crap! I apologize over my negative experience. Albeit, there were some depression/illness issues thrown into the mix. I will, however, say that sometimes sexual compatability can just be a miss and that 'effin sucks. Balls. Well, probably not balls in this case. Sucky suck.

~*~*~*~*sexy time vibes for bottleback~*~*~*~*~

[culturehandy]

Just do it. Tell him you want to get fucked, get on him, kiss him. Just do waht you feel like doing.

I'm a really in your face type of person, so I guess it would depend on what you're comfortable with.

[Laurenzorro]

Does anyone have any tips on initiating sex? Me and the husband have different needs when it comes to sex......He can go for weeks on end without it whereas I start to go crazy after a few days! He's my first sexual partner and it's difficult for me to get things started. I guess most of the time I would rather go without than be rejected time and time again.

He says I just need to let him know if I'm hanging out as he is aware that I feel under-sexed. I just don't know how!

Help?!

[konphusion26]

So last night my mister started pleasuring me with his fingers. I was enjoying it and was getting into it when all of a sudden...he yawned. This totally killed the mood for me and I moved his hand away. Yawned? Really? Is this boring you? He didn't understand why I wanted him to stop or why it bothered me. He said he was enjoying it he just wanted to relax his jaw or something...right...am I weird to be turned off by this??

No you are not weird... that is crappy. Imagine your mister yawning then falling asleep while doing it. Yeah... been there. So I feel your pain. You have every right to be miffed. You could've done it yourself for all that.

(((bottleblack)))