[demoness]

"We are all guilty of sin but we are all not forgiven." But why would the lord preach forgiveness if he wont forgive us? I believe if your heart is in the right place, you shall be granted forgiveness. Hardly anyone is "without sin". So that being said, i believe that god will never shun you away or forsake you no matter how bad or fallen. I mean religion is so taboo these days that if you actually have any spirituality youre labelled religious. I hardly consider myself religous at all. Fallen is more like it. I have a very objective mind when it comes to religion. I just cant "blindly" believe. I feel, rather. Phew. Im glad i got that off my chest, considering ive a hard time discussing religion. Seriously its such a touchy subject.:-)

[crazyoldcatlady]

khonphusion, i appreciate your discussion. it's rare to find a "believer" who can be nonpartisan and open for discussion with "non-believers" without shutting down or preaching. to touch on some things you said...

He convicts me/scolds me when I do wrong, but I know that I can ask him for forgiveness and truly believe that He's forgiven me. I've done alot of crap in my life that I'm ashamed of, but through my faith in Christ, its been forgotten. I'm so thankful for that.

the forgiveness aspect i can understand. we all need to feel like we're going to be absolved, or that someone/thing can absolve us, if we fuck up. but the whole "god will smite me if i fuck up" aspect is something that never sat well with me.

Some might say its all made up or fiction or the bible has been misconstrued or what not... but i know what I feel in my heart everytime I pray or every time I ask God to make something happen and he hears me.

again, my knee jerk reaction is just that; that it is made up and it is fiction and that many of god's followers and churches have perverted the bible beyond select questionable advice already in the text.

i have a hard time consolidating the natural and the supernatural, if you will. i think bill mahr of all people kind of summed it up for me (paraphrased): "you can't put on a suit, go to work, and be a rational functioning human 6 days a week and then on Sunday believe in an imaginary space god." i don't put all my trust in science, but back in the middle ages/past history, natural and scientific phenomenon was attributed to something ethereal; the solar eclipse was punishment from the gods, and not a natural event. all this because science had just not elucidated that yet. i often wonder what's out there NOW that just hasn't been explained by science yet....

i'm basically being a fence rider. i don't like calling myself agnostic. i'd rather swing one way or the other, just take a damn stand. but that's me. a friend i know is content with calling himself agnostic. his reasoning: "you say you're agnostic and you're saying, 'listen, i'm not smart enough to say there isn't a god, and i'm not in tune enough to say there is one. so why don't we call it a day and go have a beer?"

[konphusion26]

I understand what you're saying sister. I love everyone, believer or non believer because that's what Christ did; and as a follower and believer in Him that's what I've been commanded to do. Its not so much the "god will smite me" thing, moreso that every action has a consequence whether its positive or negative. Accountability and responsibility, ya know? I know alot of people who are "fence riders" as you said it. LOL and I realize that not everyone will be persuaded to believe one way or another. I'll definitely pray for you to get some clarity and that you find the answers you seek. I try not to look to other people for their opinions about what's real or what's not. People are just people. Even when my pastor is teaching on a topic, I go into that chapter and read it for myself. I definitely agree with you 100% that people have perverted the hell out of the bible. thats why I want to lean to read and study it in its native languages and original context. The translation that I read is the New International version. I try to keep what I read in context. Some people like to take portions of the word and make it fit their situation; They like to only hear the good parts, and not the bad parts. And that's not the way to do it. My church calls that the "feel good" gospel! They don't want to feel that conviction. The word must be kept in it fullness. Now, I'm not saying that I'm perfect and I always say or do the right things either. However, I'm trying every day to live a right life and be good to people.