[candycane_girl]

rogue, are you in a different city than the wedding? The way I look at it is as long as your day ends at 5 then it really shouldn't be a problem. And the wedding isn't even until the next day so what's the big deal? There's not much you can actually do the day before. I mean, on the wedding day all you need is hair and makeup and your outfit and you can't do that in advance anyway.

In this economy jobs are hard to come by and I think it's ridiculous that she would expect you to sacrifice a regular work day for a day before the wedding.

[rogue]

Ugh, CCG, that sounds like such a shitty situation. My grandmother is really hard to deal with too (as I mentioned before) so I can kind of relate to your "pain". Why are old people so hard to deal with sometimes? My other grandmother is the sweetest lady anyone will ever meet so it's awesome but when you have someone as ornery and crazy as my crazy grandmother it's really hard to deal with, especially when my mother takes all of the crap she deals with with the woman out on me. *sighs*

I'm having some pretty annoying family issues this week as well. My sister is getting married two weeks from tomorrow and I am one of her bridesmaids and she's turned into a total bridezilla. I work in a really good office in my city that is usually really awesome for time off. I was planning on taking the Thursday and Friday off before the wedding to get there early for it but it turns out I can't because of a staff development day we are having on Friday of that week. My boss said I can't miss it and denied my vacation request and I don't want to miss it because we are doing some follow up to a meeting we had before a few months ago. But anyway, when I explained this to her she freaked out and all but told me to quit my job to make sure I can get there early. I think this is pretty ridiculous. And not only that, she roped my father into it as well and had him call me to lecture me on the importance of being there early for "events" that are taking place. Keep in mind that my sister and I are 25 and 24 years old and I think it's pretty dumb that she is going through our father to figure this out.

I just don't know what to do about all of this. I want to send her an email and be like, seriously, you need to back off, but I don't want to stress her out anymore. She just keeps bothering me about it and it's getting worse. The big thing I am afraid of is that our aunt is really good friends with my boss' boss (he and my uncle were roommates in university and are pretty much best friends), and I'm afraid she will try and have her call him to convince him to let me have the time off, which would be so embarrassing. Bah. Families are so much more trouble then they are worth sometimes. I want her to have an awesome wedding but not at the expense of my job!

[candycane_girl]

I know that when my great grandmother was alive she also was in the habit of saying offensive things. I think what bothers me the most is that my parents have been married for 31 years and my grandmother still makes rude remarks but thinks that she isn't racist or prejudiced. My dad will never say anything because in Indian culture you never ever talk back to your elders, especially in-laws, and my mom feels like it's pointless because it will just upset my grandmother and she's stuck in her ways so nothing will change anyway.

But those stupid little remarks really get to me. Like comments about how my grandparents needed to move out of their apartment building because too many Asians were moving in and "they bring in all sorts of bugs". Or about how one of my grandma's friends moved out of Mississauga because there were "too many turbans in that place". And yes, my dad's people wear turbans. I think it's really hypocritical to act one way in front of some Indians but then make totally disparaging blanket statements about them later on.

[rogue]

I'm sorry you're having such a hard go with family these days, CCG! In regards to your question about old people having a free pass to say whatever they want and if anyone has ever stood up to their grandparents, I think you are kind of right about the free pass. I think it comes with being a "respect your elders" society. And since most of our elders come from a different time than we do, I think they are all very set in their ways and have very strong opinions on some subjects. For instance, I know one of my grandmother's has no ill will or prejudices against African Americans (or Canadians as it my be), but if I were to be in a relationship with a black man (I hate using that term but I'll use it for conversation), she would not agree with it because it just wasn't done in her day. I would never hold it against her but I don't agree with it myself.

Also, as for standing up to grandparents, I don't know if I've ever "stood up" to my Nana, but she's an old bird who's really hard to deal with at times, even though I totally love her. She and my mother (her daughter) do not get along at all so they regularly clash and I usually find myself dealing with the situation or the fallout afterward. I have to usually talk to my grandmother about what she's done to upset my mother and that her feelings are completely unjustified (it's a very long story to get into right now so I won't), but I find that if I do so with a very light voice that it usually works and she begins to see my side - or other sides - of things. I definitely don't talk down to her because she is still in her sound mind, but I find that that sometimes works. Just a suggestion, I guess.

I definitely understand your frustration, though, and I hope that things get better. =)

[auralpoison]

Y'know, CCG, I stood up to my grandad over the summer & he's barely spoken to me since (Not because he's mad, I think more he's surprised/confused). Seriously. Nary a peep. I love the old fart, but he's a goddamned bully: It's his way or no way. It fucked up his relationship with my da & in turn, fucked up my da's relationship with me. And now I am an insane control freak at times. (No?! REALLY?! Do tell!) Anyways, I stood up to him over something TINY. TINY. But I felt like if I didn't take a stand at least once about something, anything, he'd be rolling over me like a steam engine for the rest of my life. I love him, I respect him. BUT I AM NOT AFRAID OF HIM. And he knows that now.

[pollystyrene]

Ahhhhh, that's why you want to go out drinking when I see you on Saturday!

[stargazer]

But that particular mindset, where your family means nothing except as an adjunct of yourself, and your priorities take precedence over theirs, hell, even the concept that they might have priorities of their own was novel and not to be taken seriously...well I just wanted you to know that you're not alone.

Anarch, your post really helped me with thinking about my dad. My birthday is coming up and I'm not really looking to having dinner with him. Even though, it is my birthday we are celebrating, my dad is making it about himself....he has to eat by a certain time, he doesn't like to drive to far, I could drive us....shit, I told my mom that I wouldn't be surprised if my father had me pay my portion for dinner. So, these little gestures, of course, bring up issues of how my father has never taken care of me, the anger comes up, and, well, I don't really want to be around him. BUT, I know I will get over it. I think I was getting caught up in my feelings which lead me to not really planning anything for my birthday but to wallow in my own pity. Thank maude, polly asked me what I was doing for my birthday 'cause I think it helped me to get out of my head.

You know, I will drive when we go out 'cause at least I know I have an out.

[candycane_girl]

Thanks anarch. There's definitely a lot of pollution in my hometown as it's full of factories and it's the kind of place where you need a car to get around. There is also pollution that gets blown towards the town from the states and the atmosphere is kind of weird in that everything just hangs in the air.

Hmm, I just googled it and apparently my hometown is known as the smog capital of Canada. So I guess that explains things.

It's kind of funny how even though my dad gets on my nerves I feel like now all of my frustration is focused on my grandparents, particularly my grandmother. Do old people just get a free pass to say what they want? Honestly, has anyone else ever stood up to their grandparents?

[anarch]

ccg, your description also makes me wonder what there is around your hometown that could contribute to bad air quality. Industrial pig farms? Toxic runoff from a mine? etc.

And I've been meaning to post for a while now about something you wrote a while back re your dad and how he treats you and your family. It just reminded me very strongly of one time when I'd got my dad to go to therapy, and he referred to his family, ie me, my sibs, and my mom, as "minutiae" in explaining that this was just the way it is, in the culture he was brought up in. I caught the therapist's eye and he said, "Did you just hear what you just said? "Minutiae"? Your family is "minutiae"?" To his credit, my dad didn't have to have it explained to him and he apologized. But that particular mindset, where your family means nothing except as an adjunct of yourself, and your priorities take precedence over theirs, hell, even the concept that they might have priorities of their own was novel and not to be taken seriously...well I just wanted you to know that you're not alone.

[candycane_girl]

I know it sounds crazy that a place could make me so sick so easily but it's true. I understand that not everyone wants to live in a big city but it always drove me crazy that my dad didn't seem to care about the physical effect that my hometown has on me and my mom.

Anyway, I felt the need to come in here to rant about another part of my family. As I've mentioned a million times before, I'm half Indian. This weekend a very close friend of mine got married and her family is Indian. We had some wedding guests staying at our house so I offered to stay with my grandparents so that there would be extra room at the house.

Anyway, as my grandmother and I were getting ready for the reception I said that I still couldn't believe that my friend was now married and that it didn't seem real. My grandmother's response was, "Well maybe that's because it was an Indian wedding." I could not fucking believe my ears. I hate how she and my grandpa both think that they're not racist just because they let my mom marry an Indian man. They have made so many stupid thoughtless comments over the years and I'm becoming convinced that they don't think I'm Indian at all. They constantly act like anything done in the Indian tradition doesn't count or is invalid.

It only got worse at the reception (they didn't go to the wedding cause there was no way they could sit cross legged on the floor for an hour). Now I'll be the first to admit that music at Indian wedding receptions can get pretty loud. But they both sat there literally plugging their ears and grimacing. It was so embarrassing. And then they complained about how late dinner was served (it was just before 10pm). They have been to Indian weddings before. They know that dinner is always served late. That's why there was a huge array of snacks served at 7pm! And they both had snacks but apparently didn't have enough.

I just don't want to deal with them anymore. They always make stupid and rude comments and no one says anything because they are so old. But I swear if I hear one more disparaging comment about anything to do with mine and my father's culture I am going to give them an earful!

[rogue]

Aw, CCG, that sucks about your Dad. I have really bad allergies too so I completely understand. Fortunately for me as well, I get them FROM my Dad and my other family members that don't have allergies (one of my sisters, both of my brothers, my stepmom, and my mother!) are all quite understanding. If you don't mind me asking, where is your hometown? I can't believe that there would be something so bad in the air that would give you a sinus infection within 24 hours of arriving there, that's awful. Is there any environmental issues surrounding the town (kind of like the Sydney Tar Ponds in Cape Breton, NS, if you've heard of them). I can definitely understand your reasoning behind wanting to stay in Toronto - I wouldn't want to stay in a place where I feel horrible either! Your Dad just might not understand the appeal of a city such as Toronto - I know a lot of people on the east coast (where I am) don't either. I just hope things all work out for you! Being pissed off at one of my family members is never my cup of tea, event though I'm in a very rant-worthy situation right now myself. But I'll save that for another time. =)

[candycane_girl]

Okay, I just have to rant for a minute. I am so fucking annoyed with my dad!

I'm trying to figure out where to start off. Basically, my mom and I suffer from horrible allergy and sinus problems. The strange thing is, they only seem to be a big problem when we are living in our hometown. As in, literally the further I get away from my hometown, the better I feel. I no longer get the constant sniffles, the almost daily headaches or the numerous sinus infections (about 1 infection every one or two months).

It's kind of funny because people go on and on about how Toronto is so crowded and polluted and how could I possibly like it there, blah, blah, blah. But now that I live in Toronto all of my sinus and allergy problems are virtually gone. I think that in two years of living there I've had maybe one sinus infection and I hardly get any headaches at all.

This is where my dad comes in. For the past 30 years he has refused to move from our crappy hometown despite the fact that my mother suffers constantly. And any time I talk to my dad he's all "Toronto is so horrible, are you sure you want to live there?" He does it constantly and acts like it's a joke.

On Monday my mom and I arrived in my hometown. The next morning I woke up with a sinus infection! Seriously, not even 24 hours and I got sick. I'm now taking an antibiotic, nasal spray, and Advil cold and sinus daily in the hopes that the infection will die down by this weekend when my friend gets married. So today I pointed at all the meds and told my dad, "This is why I am staying in Toronto. In Toronto I don't need all this stuff. This city literally makes me sick."

And his response, "You don't need that stuff anyway." Yes, because since he doesn't suffer from sinus and allergy problems, he thinks that no one else does and no one should ever take medication. I can't believe that he is so fucking selfish that he would make my mom live here when it's obvious how sick this place makes her. And I can't believe how fucking stupid he is that he seems to think that me and my mom just love popping pills all the time.

Also, I've tried in the past to ignore sinus infections but they don't go away. All that happens is that they get worse and worse until it's unbearable.

I guess what I'm venting about is the fact that my dad has had our family live in a place that actually causes us to be sick and instead of accepting the truth, he tells us to just suck it up. And when I tell him over and over again how much better I feel (physically) in Toronto, he doesn't believe me.

(((((seven and rudderless)))))

[sevenseconds]

Look how you made me google T'Pring
(still haven't caught up on american culture, working on it)

Yes, Rudderless, I have wondered the same about you.
And I would be feeling just like you (I often do, my sister always does) but in the last few years, my mom has sort of "done penance" by dealing with so much ugly ugly shite surrounding my sister's addiction and irresponsible and unresponsive behavior that it has kind of softened my heart for her. And I did realize she grew up so sheltered, so unprepared for a reality in which the prince who rode in on a white horse can stop liking the princess and start hurting her and the kids - that she lived in waking denial of it all, and still does... I don't know. She never made a conscious choice to be a bad mother, she was always the sheltered little girl who suddenly fell off the tower and the real world never made sense. Never. Telling myself that is my strategy for trying to forgive her.

But had she not been through hell and back with my sister's blind drunk exploits... i would be as cold as T'Pring myself, Rudderless. I promise you that.

And you know what, I'm not a fan of trying to force forgiveness on oneself... Fuck it, a little anger never hurt anyone ; ) It will come, if it will. But I wish you all the peace you can use, with all my heart:)

7s

[sevenseconds]

(((Rudderless)))

My mom does the same.
She did not hide me from my father... but I wish she had. (always want what we don't have, eh?) She let me and my sis grow up with an abusive alcoholic bipolar dad who would hit me (at the table, with food in my mouth! - no wonder I've had eating disorders to fill a textbook with) for the slightest breach of etiquette, like breaking the bread with one hand, etc...
My mom is a manipulative selective-memory drama queen.
My sister is a hardcore alcoholic.
Mom can't stand it when in the middle of a lecture on how we don't love her like other kids love their moms, my sis or I finally boil over and tell her, MOM, you did this and this, and it wasn't like the greatest thing to do if you want your child to LOVE you. But she is the greatest victim, always giving her own patriarchal three-generations-under-the-same-roof childhood as an example of how families should live... while I am left with a cold desolate childhood, my shoulders fossilized in a perma-duck, always expecting to be hit for nothing, like, really for nothing, just cuz. With her looking and then pouting at my dad for doing it. Pouting.
(And a bunch more stuff with my dad I don't want to get into.)

I am currently back in the Motherland for a visit, staying in mom's apartment, so this whole thing is in my face. In my throat. I have to remind myself fifty times a day: she will not be here forever, she did not know any better, she actually did me a favor because look how strong I am now; all that. But it's hard. I end up yelling at her a few times a day. She takes it better from me than from my more obviously dysfunctional sister, so it's kind of good, I feel like I'm doing my sister a favor when I "break" my mom like this. But still, I'd like to be calmer and let it go. Let my mom off the hook onthe grounds of her really not knowing better. I am going to find it hard to forgive myself if the last time I saw her I yelled at her, when I live 10 000 miles away and anything can happen, you know...
So I'm breathing deep and I am trying hard, and it's almost working.

But I feel the same, Rudderless, I get such fits of fury. I know the bitterness. Know what it's like to be (for 5 minutes only) questioning your sanity and memories because she remembers everything differently. But you know, I have come to believe that people live in parallel worlds that touch and cross but are still separate: we do experience different realities. Call it eye of the beholder, the observer effect, it's real. I don't know how it is possible, but it is. My sister's version of our childhood (we are Irish twins, I am the older one) is also a bit different from mine, different enough, and the events she places huge importance on are, to me, like, why this? This was NOT important, how about that? Or she'll claim she invented a phrase or a game that I am certain, absolutely positive that I invented myself... So, I don't know. It's all crazy, we are all more or less bearably crazy.
And it's fine to not have forgiven. I haven't completely yet. I just want to.
Good luck, everyone, with bearing and healing that crazy and beautiful scar, being human.

7s

[deschatsrouge]

((((Rudder))))

((((AP))))

((((AnnaB))))

Today I found out my sis has a nicotine habit that she's been keeping from me. She told me she'd never speak to me again if I told her boy friend and threw a tantrum when she realized I might tell our parents. I told our parents and I'm waiting to see what happens. I'm half tempted to tell her boyfriend so she won't speak to me for the rest of her early adulthood. The next time she will talk to me is when she has lost the know-it-all stupidity that comes with adolescence.

[stargazer]

i want to hate them sometimes but i can't. it would take up too much of my time. i spent the last two years of my life in a miserable state wondering what the hell i am going to do with my life and things are finally starting to look up for me in that direction that if i spent my time bitter and hating them that it would ruin my life. i am going to chose to be happy and functional.

(((annabananahannah))) It seems like your parents have made their decision how they want to live their life as confusing as it may be for you. It appears that you've realized that the only thing you can do is to choose to live the life you want for yourself. I think the fact that you've made this choice for yourself is a start in a healthy direction for you.

Am I a heartless, evil, ungrateful bitch to want nothing more to do with her? Am I wrong to keep my kids as far as I can from her?

Am I nuts, for real? Am I totally heartless?

(((rudder))) It is totally understandable that you are hurt by your mother's behavior over the course of your life. She has left you to put the remnants of your life which dealt on lies and abandonment. You've had to mother yourself in a sense. Unfortunately, your mother is not willing to be the mother you need to help you work through this stuff. At the same time, it must be tough to know whether you can trust her or if she will bail when the going gets tough. It makes sense for you to want some distance from her.

Not sure if this stuff will help you, but, I've gone a couple of times of not speaking with my father. At the age of 15, I was tired of my father's behavior when he was drinking (I have an alcoholic father). But, guilt set in when I was graduating from HS and so I invited him to my ceremony. I remember being 19 and spending time with him. There were so many unresolved feelings I had towards him that I remember literally seeing red, like this murderous rage, when I would be with him. Unsure where this hostility came from I got into therapy for myself. I think therapy during my 20s focused on my relationship with him. Fast forward to the age of 23, again, tired of his behavior (he wasn't drinking at this time), I just stopped talking to him. I went back and forth about contacting him, what type of relationship did I want with my father, did I need him in my life, feeling powerless in my relationship with him, wanting him to be the parent I didn't grow up with, and wanting him to take the initiative in our relationship. For some ungodly reason, I called him (I was 32 at the time) before I left for a conference. I think I felt some power in the relationship that I knew my father would not reject me or not talk with me. My father will never be the father or man I want him to be. *sigh* I think that last sentence...that was the hardest for me to accept. I really had to go through a grieving process with that one. I really had to let go with that one. I think that is why it was so easy for me to call him. My father still tries to push for a fantasy father-daughter type relationship where I spend alot of time with him. I will admit that I feel quite comfortable keeping things where they are...holidays and birthdays. I don't feel the need to try to force some type of relationship with him. As far as I am concerned, he needs to be grateful that I am even talking with him. I think this shift helped me to be grateful of the people I have in my life and my relationship with my stepdad. I was too focused on my father 'cause, well, narcissistic, demanding people will do that to you.

So, I guess I share my story with you to let you know that you are not heartless or crazy for the relationship you have with your mother. You do have the power to set boundaries and limits to whatever, if any, interaction you have with your mother. You are going through your own journey and process of your relationship with your mother. I hope this helps. (((rudder)))

[kittenb]

annahannahbanana - My parents split up years ago and they still are not divorced. They will never get back together, my mom is with a woman now for goodness sakes! Nice to know I am not the only person who considers buying her parents a divorce for Christmas.

{{{ap}}}

rudderlesschild - It sounds too me like you are doing the right thing keeping yourself away from her. It may change in the future but at this point (and always) you have the right to decide who you welcome in your life.

[sybarite]

(((rudderless)))

I can only speak from what you've posted... but yes, from what you describe it makes utter sense that you don't want further contact with your mother. She let you down and her behaviour hurt you. It makes sense you wouldn't want to expose yourself or your children to that.

Easier said than done, but is there anything you can do to process that (totally understandable) anger, so it doesn't stay with you?

I am glad that you seem to have forged a relationship with your father--hopefully he provides some emotional support still.

Sorry if the above is stating the obvious... For what it's worth, no one who writes as articulately and eloquently as you do can be that messed up in the head. You are awesome and you will get through this, too.

[auralpoison]

I really don't understand my white people. They fuck me & fuck me & fuck me 'round in circles & then they decide to confuse me to boot.

Okay. So my cousins/their wives, haven't spoken to me in more than a year because their parents are shitty & the family that is shitty together stays together (If you read down below you'll see what scumsuckers these people are). They present a unified shitty front. So a while back, one of the DIL tries to friend me on FB because I changed my settings & they could no longer keep track of me. I denied because I thought it was fucking shady & I barely know the woman. I know the middle one had a kid about a month ago because I read it in the paper, I knew when she got pregnant because I saw it online. Big whoop. So last weekend, taking a page from my mother once again, my one aunt got the other aunt to call & tell me about the new baby (After twenty minutes of her blahblahblah about how my uncle named their new cat after some pornstar I've never heard of.) because, y'know, I CARE. If they had wanted me to know, I'd have been invited to the shower? These people know I have money, they might as well try to milk as much out of me as they can, right? But no. So today I get a birth announcement. It's not signed, there is no note, I wonder why they bothered at all.

[annabananahannah...]

my parents have split up and gotten back together (the actual number of times is debated but i'm gonna say about) six times in the twenty years i've been alive. i used to hate my dad although i don't anymore, i'm just annoyed with him. my mother is a big Christian and my dad recently got "saved" although i really think this is for my mother's benefit. they don't have a specific problem in my estimation; it's mostly that my dad is clingy and won't let her go anywhere without going with her. he's not like a dangerous person; he's just a sad old fart who has really not accomplished much in life and the only thing he has is my mother, and he annoys her. she's probably going to kick him out or leave him again. i don't know.

this isn't really about them though. i really want them to get divorced. a lot. like so divorced they take their marriage certificate and burn it, and then take the ashes and burn the ashes. i have three younger siblings and this really isn't doing them any favors, this stay together for the kids nonsense. i think some people have problems you can work out, but not my mom and dad. i don't care what they do so long as they do it soon, and are fucking HAPPY.

i want to hate them sometimes but i can't. it would take up too much of my time. i spent the last two years of my life in a miserable state wondering what the hell i am going to do with my life and things are finally starting to look up for me in that direction that if i spent my time bitter and hating them that it would ruin my life. i am going to chose to be happy and functional.

i think the only real damage done to me throughout this is that i now maybe have an unrealistic expectation for my own romantic life. i just want someone who will be my best friend, and who i can love and won't be sick of the sight of in twenty years. i don't want perfect, i just want a person who's right for me and i think even that seems to be asking too much. oh god, i just want to be happy.