[anonymousfeminis...]

Lurker delurks to educate:

I don't think that most of the posters understand the dynamics of BDSM sex play and that's why they find it so disturbing. It's not about degradation; it's about trust, the loss of control and technically it's the Sub that has *ALL* the power in the scene. Not to mention that pain can heighten the sensations of pleasure. I've done it, so I get it. I was paid well for it. I still have the shoes and a single black PVC, lace back, secretary skirt. Being a good Dom is a practiced discipline that requires a great deal of study to achieve. You can't just pick up a cat o' nine or crop and have at it without causing serious damage and that's not what it's about. 98% percent of the BDSM community believes in safe, sane, and consensual scenes. Personally, I leaned more towards the Dom side and I don't think that gender makes it bad for the gander and good for the goose. It's a relationship of pure give and take. Gender is a personal preference of the parties involved. A male Dom and a female Sub is no worse than a female Dom and a male Sub. The point is that both parties are there because they *want* to be and they can gain an uncommon satisfaction out of the affair. I've had both male and female Subs. As long as I got paid, I didn't care about the gender/scene. Plus, the outfits are cool.

There are sick fucks, but they are comdemned by the community. They're like, 2%.

[cloverbee]

All Knorl said was that these women are portraying a "fake" and "superficial" image which is exactly right. They are selling a fantasy that no real woman can ever live up to. It would take nerves of steel not to get intimidated and to keep your self-esteem intact after being looked over by the one you love for a fantasy. I don't think that is degrading these people to say that they are fake and superficial. Nobody rents a porno by themselves to experience a deep and profound connection to another human being. They just want to get their rocks off and if a real human doesn't do it for them, well, they may have some underlying intimacy issues to deal with.

[knorl05]

that's interesting that one would automatically assume my opinion about another group of women has anything to do with my self perception. being a liberal minded woman, i have known many women in the sex industry over the past decade. and what i have come to learn about these women is that their choices are rooted more in greed and power struggles than anything else. they are attempting to use and manipulate men. when in reality they are allowing themselves to be used and manipulated. in my opinion, from what i have experienced, these women are lying to themselves if they pretend they are empowered through the sex industry. this is my opinion from what i have seen. these women are far from a threat to me. to be honest, i think it is sad that women have been lead to believe that using themselves as a sexual object (which, yes, as pixie pointed out, this is what they are doing) is at all liberating. i have seen more women bound to this lifestyle, who would rather not be, simply for making a poor choice when they were young and impressionable. i suppose the reason i have such strong opinions about it, is that i DO support all women... and the view i have of porn is negative because i think it's sad that so many women are lead down that path with false promises of power and admiration through sex and money. sure there may be the few who remain unscathed or truly enjoy what they are doing... but those cases are rare. i would much rather discourage women from the draw or appeal of the sex industry by being honest about it. the industry itself is rooted in the exploitation of sexual fantasies. let's be realistic. if you make the choice to be a porn star, more power to you... but dont act surprised when you face resistance towards your lifestyle. i do not tell anyone how to live their lives. i would not attempt to stop anyone from making a choice that they think they want to make. but i will have my opinion about it, and i will speak my opinion about it regardless of how it will be received.

[missjuliet]

It depends what porn you're talking about.

Male domination porn has nothing to do with the power of woman, it has to do with just the opposite.

I do however, have much respect for women in the porn industry who are making a stand using porn and showing that the female body is not only beautiful but immensely powerful.

Knorl was right for the porn I was mentioning. My boyfriend had been watching a lot of Male dom. porn in which I found to be incredibly disrespectful to me and to all women. (My opinion of course)

Anyway..........

You all have been a tremendous help<3

I've decided to give my boyfriend another chance.

He said he wants to change and wants my help to change. I'm wary to believe him but he even gave me his password for his computer and asked me to check whenever I have a suspicion.

I'm not sure how it will all turn out but I thank you for all of the kind advice and enlightening past experiences.

Thank you so much dear Busties<3

[katiebelle2882]

i never said her feelings are disrespectful to her boyfriend. i am saying that this has everything to do with her boyfriend and NOTHING to do with porn or how these women"objectify" themselves as you say, etc etc. i see no reason to bring the actual actors in porn into it, especially the women. this is not being PC this is saying its unacceptable for women to continue blaming eachother as a means to make one feel better about themselves. in no way am i invalidating juliet's feelings on the matter, i think they are completely understandable as are everyone elses.

[katiebelle2882]

i also want to add that in order to be compassionate and supportive doesnt mean you have to say something obnoxious about another group in order to make the person feel better. i object to the type of support that is basically telling the other person what they want to hear instead of reality. by being condescending towards women in the sex industry thats exactly what you are doing. making juliet feel better by telling her what she wants to hear (or what you presume she wants to hear): that these women are objectifying themselves and are plastic caricatures. this is how women tear down other women. we can BE compassionate towards her without telling her or insinuating that she is above these women. No, shes not above these women, shes above her boyfriend who is making her feel emotionally insecure about herself through HIS behavior, not through what he looks at.

[pixiedust]

Ummm....I don't even see where anyone was tearing down the BUSTies in the sex industry. Yes Khorl said women in porn are objectifying themselves. And it's true. Porn is giving a man an object to lust after...not a warm emotional person. All the PC crap is BS. When someone is hurting they do not want to hear that their hurt feelings are disrespectful to people who choose to do the thing that hurts them.

You know, I am a Christian and a Republican and there has been a lot of hate posts posted against both groups on here lately, But you know what, I'm a big Girl and I know these posts are not directed at me personally, and these people need to vent their frustrations, but I am not going to go around telling them they are being disrespectful to me because they are upset by things happening. I would not invalidate their feelings like that.

[katiebelle2882]

Erin is correct, I in know way want this thread to turn into one to support women in the sex industry. I know why Juliet came here, and I think pretty much all of the posts have addressed her problem. I know you have said everyone has a different opinion, I however took your comment as condescending to women in the sex industry bc you said something derogatory about them while trying to support Juliet.


I think women tear down other women in order to make themselves feel better, and I think we can change that dominant paradigm. we can sit here and be sympathetic to juliet without saying something along the lines of "they are objectifying themselves" etc etc. its not productive to either party, and that was my only point.

[erinjane]

knorl, I don't think katie was implying that we should use this thread to support women in the industry, but that we should be respectful of the choices people make regardless of our opinion of porn especially considering there are a good number of busties involved in various forms of sex work. I'm not trying to be hostile here, but I view it as similar to when women with small breasts tear down women with big breasts, for example. We shouldn't have to tear down one group to justify our own feelings. We can still be compassionate and supportive without insulting people who do choose to become involved in sex work.

[knorl05]

katiebelle2882: thanks for your feedback. instead of just focusing on that one comment, if you look back a few, you will see that i clearly state one opinion is not the RIGHT opinion. i further stated that we each have opinions about [porn] based on our own experiences with it. this female has come here looking for support from other women, because she has had very harmful, detrimental experiences with pornography. this thread is not centered on supporting women in the porn industry. i'm sure there are many women who feel empowered by their sexuality that is true, and they are free to choose how they want to live. but this thread does not deal with understanding the potential upside of using porn, or the positive aspects of sexual expression. there are times to be politically correct, and there are times to deal with a situation with compassion, support, and concern.

[zahia1996]

You totally hit the nail on the head Katiebelle. Its hard not to take it especially personally and think that the problem is because you're not attractive enough. But in the end, it is just like any other addiction. I asked my husband how the whole experience made him feel, and it was just like Pixie said...he felt like a failure for not being able to control it, and he said he felt like a horrible person for how much it hurt me. He also has a lot of guilt about it. But I give him big props for being able to admit he needed help, and actually seeking out a doctor who specializes in that sort of thing. For as much damage as it did to our relationship for a while, I really do have a newfound respect for him. Especially considering how much flak he gets for it from his Army buddies. I'm really proud of him for what he's done.

[katiebelle2882]

i would think that just like any other addiction it makes everyone involved self esteem go down. whether your SO is ignoring you bc he rather spend his time with drugs, alcohol, or porn, i would say thats pretty degrading to the other person in the relationship. i think porn would be especially bad since women can't aspire to be a bottle of jack daniels, but can look at the images in porn and wonder "if i was like that would he be attracted to me?".

[pixiedust]

I'm amazed at how much I am enjoying this thread. I had a similar relationship Zahia. By all outwards appearances my ex was a very loving, devoted husband. I think that is why our closest friends didn't really believe what happened and put the blame on me for the affairs withotu considering what caused tehm in the first place. It was almost like a seperate part of his personality. And when he got depressed and angry, that part of his personality took over. We had talked and I had admitted to being unhappy and his response was to go out an have an affair with my best friend(this was before he knew about my affairs) And that is so out of character for him. That was why I was willing at first to try and work things out. But he finally lost control and got violent.
And it is very progressive. We started out looking at soft porn..some posed women that sort of thing, but when we were splitting up one night he showed me all the folders of porn hidden on his computer and the titles were for things far more hardcore and degrading than I would have ever expected him to be into.
I don't really think porn itself is dangerous. It's how the person responds to it. If they get compulsive, lie, hide it or become ashamed, then yes it is a problem. But say Mr. Pixie wanted to pick up a magazine and flip through it, I would have no problem with that. He's up front with me about things like that, and he's not going to do things he's ashamed to tell me about.
And just a side thought...We've all talked about how the porn made our self esteem go down...But I can't help wondering about the men who were addicted. I mean if they were ashamed of doing it, that could have an impact of their male ego to be losing control of a compulsion to do something that makes them feel bad.

[cloverbee]

wow zahie, your comments were very enlightening, thank you. I agree with your assessment of what is considered an 'addiction' as well. I know from my personal experience, it was sucking the life right out of our relationship and that is the determining factor for what is considered 'cheating'. I also know that my self-esteem took a huge nosedive which got me very angry at him (my then boyfriend). I flew into a rage when I found his porn stash and I kicked him out of the house and everything. on top of it all, he had the nerve to sit there and lie to me about it. it was unreal.
I don't understand the appeal of the hard-core stuff but I can tell you that porn is dangerous to certain individuals. most notably teenagers. I was taught in college that if a boy views porn before he undergoes puberty, his sex life will be forever tainted. I know it sounds hokey but it is true. He will never have a 'normal' sex life. It's something about the wiring in the brain, almost like some psychopathic individuals that pair sex with violence and, well, you saw what happened to Jeffery Dahmer didn't you?
Anyway, porn will be around forever and people hundreds of years from now will have these same problems. Good luck everyone.

[zahia1996]

Miss Juilet-
There are a lot of misconceptions out there about what a porn addict is. I certainly never would have pictured my husband as one. In every regard outside our sex life he was kind, thoughtful, sweet, and caring. I had far more sexual experience (and partners) than he did. And it wasn't like he used it all day every day. Sometimes there was a couple weeks where it would only be once a week. I still hesitate to even call it an addiction, but it certainly carries some of the same characteristics of addiction across the board. For instance, he didn't even really enjoy it. He usually felt bad and ashamed about it, but still felt a compulsion to use it. Another thing was he would try and "cut back" only to have it go out of control again. Another thing was the escalation in what he wanted to see. It gradually got more and more hardcore and degrading. It also wasn't even really about sex. It was how he dealt with stress, anxiety, and depression. Unfortunately, it did seep into other areas of his life as well. I started noticing more and more all his casual joking about rape, which pretty much horrified me. To him it was funny and no big deal. It also became no big deal for him to come home from work, tell me to pull down my pants so he could fuck me, and if I hesitated, just say "nevermind, I'll just go jerk off and watch porn". This from the guy who always helped around the house, surprised me with gifts, and normally treated me like a princess.
I guess my point is, that just like there are closet, functioning alcoholics that you would never expect have a problem, the same thing can happen with porn. Likewise, some people have a healthy outlook and use of alcohol, and some people do with porn.
One thing that really helped me in dealing with the situation with him was to try and stop looking at it as Porn The Enemy (which made me feel insecure and crappy) and try and deal with it like I would if he had any other substance abuse issue. When I was able to discuss it with him without making moral judgements, or getting super emotional, we were able to have more honest in-depth discussions. It was also extremely helpful for me to get counseling, separate from him, to deal with the self esteem issues it brought out in me. It was only after a couple of months of that, that I was able to finally take a real stand and say that this isn't the life I want, i deserve better. All the flowers in the world don't make up for making the person you're supposed to love above anyone else feel like a prostitute or piece of garbage.
I wish you all the luck in dealing with this issue, and kudos for being brave enough to bring it up. I struggled for months and months alone because I was so afraid of people telling me I was ridiculous or that it was my fault.

[lucizoe]

Hi missjuliet,

I wanted to say that everyone's responses here have been very thoughtful. I think you've gotten some really great advice. I suppose all I really want to add is that not all men view/use porn. Mr.Luci owned one tape when we got together, a gift from a friend who clearly had no idea who he really was. It was about three years old and still in its shrink wrap.

Not terribly productive, I know, just wanted to get it out there.

Good luck!

(((missjuliet)))

[katiebelle2882]

missjuliet,

i think you pretty much answered your own question. if he called himself a porn addict, and is still lying about it, then i think some action needs to be taken. a porn addict doesnt look at porn only once a week, so you are right on with that assessment. also, i know you said hes a good guy otherwise etc etc, but no good guy makes you feel insecure about yourself, whether its through porn or something else. thats horrible that he has done this to you, i dont care how he did it, the effects are still there. i have never gone through anything like this so i would take all those other busties who have advice. they know what they are talking about! you deserve so much better.

[missjuliet]

You all are amazing<3 Thanks for helping me through this.

It helps to know that other girls have gone through this.

Pixiedust - Thank you for sharing. I'm glad you were able to find a person who isn't as bad as your ex and are enjoying a healthy relationship.

Katiebelle - I wasn't the one that called him a porn addict. He told me he was when I confronted him about the things I saw on his computer. He said that he would only do it once every week at the most, but I don't believe him. For him to call himself an addict I believe that he was doing it every day. I am extremely insecure and that is something that I need to overcome by myself, but that shouldn't be a cop out for him and how I'm feeling about this.

Cloverbee - Thank you so much and I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Zahia - Thank you so much for sharing as well. Again, knowing I'm not the only one is such a relief. I'm glad both of you are trying to work it out and that he cares about you enough to really try and make a change.

>How did it change everyone's sex life though?
I was so surprise when he said he was addict; not only because he told me he wasn't but because I've always pictured an addict as someone very disrespectful to women. He isn't at all. Except watching the Male-dom stuff, which I think is disrepectful by itself. But he was a virgin when I met him, when I wanted to have sex he said he wasn't ready, and when we finally did have sex he gave me this huge speech about how this was something very special that we'd share for the rest of our lives. He also would never try anything when we had sex. I mean he'd suggest positions but he was never extremely rough with me.

He did give me the "I'm tired" ruitine a lot and I always had wondered why.

The reason I am so insecure today is from my boyfriend. He was constantly telling me what would look better on me - hair color, clothes, makeup, etc. My mother thought I turned into a complete prostitute (granted my mother is a pretty big conservative) and I never noticed why he liked all of those things until now.

Again thank you so much for all of your responses =^.^=

[pixiedust]

Zahia, thanks for sharing that! You really summed up how it was with me and my ex. I cheated on him..multiple times, so I am no Saint, but I think part of it was trying to find someone who didn't treat me like an object, or expect me to be their own personal blow up doll. Unfortunately I went about it the wrong way and objectified myself even more. But I needed that missing affection and appreciation I wasn't getting at home.

[erinjane]

knorl,

i am not really sure insulting women who work in the sex industry is the answer to this. they have their own reasons whether you agree with them or not. there are busties who are in the sex industry, and while it may not necessarily be porn, your comment is a little condescending to women who find empowerment in what they do and who have made a conscious choice. i know different feminisms treat porn and the sex industry differetly, but while we may not agree i still think its important to respect decisions and try to understand why they are making those decisions. its certainly not their fault certain men in particular cant use porn in a healthy, productive manner that is not detrimental to their relationships with their siginificant others.

I just wanted to second this, as I wouldn't have been able to put it so nicely. (I have strong feelings on that issue.)