The Lounge Guidelines Help Search Members Calendar Blogs

Welcome Guest [ Log In | Register ] ]

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Pop Culture Feminism, a place to discuss womans place in our pop culture
chibi
post Jul 23 2006, 09:55 AM
Post #41


BUSTie
**
Posts: 10


Hi all,

I am new and not sure where would be the best place to post this...I have just finished reading Ariel Levy's Female Chauvinist Pigs and are wondering if any of you all have read it too, and if so, what you think of it. (if this is not the right place for this sort of thing, please redirect me)

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
punkerplus
post Jul 21 2006, 10:41 AM
Post #42


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 233
From: UK


With things I read I don't see these things so much. I read books mainly by female authors, and while in my early teens this was a conscious decision, now it comes almost naturally.

My boyfriend made the point recently that most of my cds are by female artists, and same for my books and thats when I realised it is because I enjoy them more, because I can relate to them.

I am going to keep a copy of those questions though and use them when I read.

Also I'm about to start "Cinderella's Big Score : Women of the Punk and Indie Underground" so I shall let you all know if that brings up any good points.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thingsarenice
post Jul 21 2006, 05:42 AM
Post #43


BUSTie
**
Posts: 62


I love reading but I get so sick sometimes of how female characters are always so two-dimensional, or how women are written about as these mysterious objects to do things to as opposed to as people who do things.. Portnoy's Complaint comes to mind, particularly the scene where he's thinking of masturbating onto this girl who fell asleep on the bus. It's not just the misogyny that bothers me, either, but the racism, too. If you're lucky enough to find a book written before 1970 that refers to women as actual human beings odds are that any reference to non-whites will be just as offensive as the misogynist crap you had to put up with in the last book you read.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pixiedust
post Jul 18 2006, 09:14 PM
Post #44


Tink's Red headed Step Sis
***
Posts: 1,810
From: oklahoma


Don't worry Lot..I saw the post yestersday, but I knew it wasn't directed AT me specificly.And I don't blame you for your views. Too many people make you r feelings justified. That is why a certain troll really gets under my skin because he is damaging the very thing he pretends to be. And I am tired of not being able to mention God on here without him swooping down on the thread. God Bless ignore lists!

This can be any kind of thread we want it to be. I started it because Mr. P had this great lecture that made a difference in his perception of feminism and I wanted to share. So many of the questions at the end I had never really considered before. Why are independant, strong willed women, always plain or homely?


--------------------
~May the Fleas of one thousand camels infest the crotch of any person who messes up your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch!~
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lot49
post Jul 18 2006, 08:47 PM
Post #45


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 494
From: around the way


Great new thread!

faerietails, I love what I've read on your site so far (I haven't read through anti-feminsm links yet). What an interesting project.

and pixie, what a great outline for a class discussion! The first course I took in literary theory in college was on feminist literary theory, and it was an almost total waste for me. The professor started the class with "What is feminism?"And then proceeded to tell those who offered answers that they were wrong. I don't even remember what her definition was....some complicated mess of critical discourse... I would so have preferred a discussion like that one.

Not much else to contribute tonight, but looking forward to seeing where this one goes.

pixie, in light of you mentioning that you're a Christian republican, I wanted to add that I feel like a complete dork for posting something about how I much I look down on republicans and religion in the Confessions thread yesterday. I put it in the confessions thread because I don't like this snobby streak in myself, and think it generally harms the causes that I believe in more than helps them...I don't know if I'm saying this well...open mouth, insert foot.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
erinjane
post Jul 18 2006, 08:46 PM
Post #46


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 1,301
From: Winnipeg


I think this is a really interesting thread. I'm not sure if this is intended more to be the portrayal of feminism in pop culture, or just feminism in pop culture. What I mean is, I recently took a course called Gender and Film and it was all about feminism analysis of Film Noir. It was really fantastic and really opens your eyes to the way you interpret things in past movies and films of today.

It was extremely interested analyzing the portrayal of women as the femme fatale and seeing how they always had their downfall at the end. We read some interesting articles on race as well, some by bell hooks, and one called "The Whiteness of Lilian Gish". It's scarier how the women who weren't white, or were '1/2 white' were portrayed as 'evil' or sexual deviants.

Starting in September I'll be taking Girls, Women, and Pop Culture as well as Mass Communication and Pop Culture. I think given my age (early 20's) I find issues like this especially interesting. I also have a 3 year old niece who I want to keep informed of the ways that the media portrays women/feminism.


--------------------
I Could Tell You Stories That Would Make Your Ears Curl
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pixiedust
post Jul 18 2006, 12:53 PM
Post #47


Tink's Red headed Step Sis
***
Posts: 1,810
From: oklahoma


yeah...The questions are what they had to address in their discussion about the book they read. I don't remember what the name of it was, but He thinks he might do his semester paper over that book because he was so fascinated with the role of women in literature. He'd never considered all this stuff before and I think maybe he "get's it" now.

I am not your sterotypical feminist. I am a Christian republican. I married right out of high school and my biggest hope in life was to have a home, family, and lots of children. I wanted to be June Cleaver. But 8 1/2 years of feeling oppressed, and second class to my ex, I finally realized that feminism is not a dirty word. SO many people think feminists are out to be better than men...I don't think that. I think we want to be equal, and it is still not happening. I lost my first job after my divorce because the guy I was working with was 50ish and though woman should simper and play secretary and receptionist. My title was Office Manger, and he didn't like me trying to make decisions about the office. Amusngly enough, I sat next to him waiting for my bankruptcy hearing last year. Karma?


--------------------
~May the Fleas of one thousand camels infest the crotch of any person who messes up your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch!~
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
faerietails
post Jul 18 2006, 12:25 PM
Post #48


donut-lovin' heathen
***
Posts: 624


Those questions at the end of your post are great ones to keep in mind, pixie.

Um, I'm not exactly sure where to begin with this thread, though the topic is one that ceaselessly manages to fascinate me.

During my undergrad I put together a website about people's perceptions of feminism. A lot of it was backlash, so I also included stuff on anti-feminism. There are mostly quotes from different (female) music/movie celebrities regarding feminism, though I'd love to look at literature as well.

It's pretty basic, but it might also serve as one of the jumping-off points.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pixiedust
post Jul 18 2006, 10:33 AM
Post #49


Tink's Red headed Step Sis
***
Posts: 1,810
From: oklahoma


Ok...I mentioned this in the forum and it was agreed that we could start a thread about how feminism is portrayed in pop culture. I am starting it with a lecture Mr. Pixie was emailed in his online literature class in grad school.

There are a lot of different angles in feminist literary theory, so I'm going to give you the basics for this week's discussion. One thing I want to clarify right now, A FEMINIST IS NOT A MAN HATER. A feminist is a person who thinks people should be treated equally regardless of gender. Most of the men I know are feminists. Many women are angry about the idea that they are inferior because they are women, but they do not represent the intellectual attitudes of feminism. In fact, these women are sexist pigs. So I hope to avoid any shrill invective in this discussion. Let us look at the book intellectually, not emotionally.

All of this information is from Bressler, Charles E. "Literary Criticism: An Introduction to Theory and Practice." 3rd ed. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall, 2003. 142-156.

The basic premise is that while sex is determined biologically, gender is determined socially, and women have been oppressed for millennia. Various feminists have tried to figure out exactly how women have been represented in literature, and that is the gist of feminist theory.

Kate Millet (1960s-70s) noted the following treatment of women in canonical literature:
1. In literature of the past, women have been considered "the Other." This means that the literature is written from the male point of view and that women are not men; therefore, they are "other" than men.
2. Women are stereotyped as "sex maniacs, goddesses of beauty, mindless entities, or old spinsters"
3. Few female authors appeared in literary anthologies, so women's writing was overlooked
4. The roles of female fictional characters were limited to secondary positions, more frequently than not occupying minor parts within the stories or simply reverting to the male's stereotypical images of women.
5. Female scholars were ignored
6. It was assumed by male literary scholars that all readers were male, so women reading these works were unconsciously duped into reading as a male.

Elaine Showalter concentrated on uncovering examples of misogyny (hatred of women) in texts. There is plenty of misogyny to be uncovered.

Gilbert and Gubar identified two types of women in fiction: the angel in the house and the madwoman in the attic. In Victorian fiction, the angel in the house was the wife who spent all of her energy making sure that her husband's house (it was not her house) was a refuge from the horrors of industrial society. It is this idea that we see in 1950s TV shows, where the loving wife brings his slippers and pipe to her husband after he gets home from a long day at work. The madwoman in the attic is an idea from Bronte's Jane Eyre where Rochester's first wife is locked in the attic because she has gone insane. Gilbert and Gubar maintain that she is actually a liberated woman who doesn't ascribe to the angel in the house model, so people thought she was insane. Bressler says: "Gilbert and Gubar assert that either of these images--the angel or the madwoman--are unrealistic representations of woman in society. One canonizes and places the woman above the world, while the other denigrates and places her below the world. Further, the message is clear to all women: If you are not an angel, then you are a monster" (151).

NOTE: The word "canon" indicates that books and women are made into saints or are superior to the common mold. Canonized books are those that are studied often because they are considered to be the best. Canonizing a woman makes her a saint.

Bressler gives some questions for analysis of a work according to feminist theory:
1. Is the author male or female?
2. Is the text narrated by a male or female?
3. What types of roles do women have in the text?
4. Are the female characters the protagonists or secondary and minor characters?
5. Do any stereotypical characterizations of women appear?
6. What are the attitudes toward women held by the male characters?
7. What is the author's attitude toward women in society?
8. How does the author's culture influence her or his attitude?
9. Is feminine imagery used? If so, what is the significance of such imagery?
10. Do the female characters speak differently than do the male characters? In your investigation, compare the frequency of speech for the male characters to the frequency of speech for the female characters.

Thoughts or discussion?



--------------------
~May the Fleas of one thousand camels infest the crotch of any person who messes up your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch!~
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: October 25, 2014 - 05:38 AM