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> "porn: Is It Cock-blocking Feminism?", All About Feminism and Sex Work
erinjane
post Jul 25 2006, 11:16 AM
Post #1


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 1,301
From: Winnipeg


One of the touchiest subjects between feminists is the relationship to sex work/porn/stripping/etc. Rather then further derail the Porn and Boys thread (but you can check it out for a bit of background http://www.bust.com/lounge/index.php?showtopic=52071&hl= ) come on in to this thread and share your thoughts.

What do you define as sex work? Are you pro/against? Why? Do you have a background in it, know anyone involved, are you involved? As Pixie asked, Does anyone see it as conforming to the sterotypes that feminists are against? Does it hurt or hinder feminism?
Just a few questions to get us thinking. So throw out some thoughts!

*I'm just running out the door but I wanted to get this going before I left. I'll be back hopefully this evening to throw in some of my opinions.* smile.gif


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greenbean
post Jul 29 2006, 12:08 PM
Post #2


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 954


Ooof, there have been a lot of new posts since I was last on and I havent read all of them,..but I'll try to answer some questions that were asked of me...
First of all, I was being sensitive about the broadness of the definition of sex work some of you were using.
It made me feel like I was back in catholic school were if you arent a caste, virgin mary-type then you are a slut. As for the tearing down of sexual women it was a vibe I got, particularly from posts suggesting that sex appeal is fleeting, thus it should be dismissed. I dont agree with that.
Secondly, I am sensitive about being a waitress, and dont like feeling guilty for getting good tips. I feel like many feminists think that a 'true' feminist is a successful career gal, and unfortch, whenever a group of business women in pantsuits come in to the joint I work at I fear I'm gonna get bad tips--its just the way it usually goes. Recently a woman chewed me out for a mix up the restaurant had with her reservation, and she said, "This is a special occasion for me because I just passed the bar exam! ...and you are dumb as rocks and thats why you're just a waitress!" Anyway, I know that doesnt really fit in to the discussion about sex work but its just where I'm coming from.
And good tips for good-looking people goes both ways,..the hot guy at work gets more tips than anyone in the whole joint fer sure. Some women even get up from a table in my section to get drinks from him, even if I was just there asking for their order. Go figure. People can drink at home, but they go to bars for the social contact and yes, flirting.
Oh, and Maddy, the way you described it, "flirt or smile at the nasty guys that leer at you" is a bit offensive not only to me but to my male patrons. Most men arent "nasty", and flirting isnt a bad thing. I know youve been thru sexual trauma and you may see things that way, but I'm saying from my perspective it isnt a gross thing. Infact, a few posts gave me the vibe that guys are 'nasty', or at least guys who masturbate are 'nasty'.
Isnt that a bit puritan? We are all sexual animals, can we cut the guys some slack?

Your second question Maddy,..I am straight and I first started going to female strip clubs with my sister when we were under 21 because a. we werent allowed in bars and we needed to experience nite life somehow,...and b. It was kinda a 'fuck you' to our catholic upbringing.
Now I go to clubs once in a while when they are burlesque nights. Usually I go with a coed group. The last show I saw was real fun. One girl did a strip tease where she started out like Napolean Dynomite doing that dance,..another girl did a striptease in the way of 'Carrie', where she ended it by smearing fake blood all over her naked body.

Knorl, to me being a feminist means believing rape and abuse towards women is illegal and punishible.
It means women have a right and oppurtunity to vote, be involved in government, have equal rights to men in education and work. It means that women have rights to their own body, family planning and sexuality.
It means they have a right to recieve sex education, and a right to enjoy sex.
And it also means that they arent punished for being sexually active or experimental,..for instance I dont it should be allowed that a woman (or man) can be fired from work for something sexual they do outside of work (unless its illegal of course). Heres an example: http://sfgate.com/columnists/morford/

Sorry if this has derailed newer discussions....


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Posts in this topic
erinjane   "porn: Is It Cock-blocking Feminism?"   Jul 25 2006, 11:16 AM
mermaidgirl13   I define sex work as stripping, porn or any kind o...   Jul 25 2006, 11:47 AM
maddy29   thanks to ej for starting this thread. i have lot...   Jul 25 2006, 11:56 AM
jsmith   I second Maddy's definition of sex work. And I...   Jul 25 2006, 12:06 PM
greenbean   Wow, okay, this is a verrrry broad topic. If y...   Jul 25 2006, 12:28 PM
erinjane   I've talked about posting this before, but I w...   Jul 25 2006, 12:41 PM
pixiedust   I mentioned this in the other thread, but aI'l...   Jul 25 2006, 12:49 PM
erinjane   I meant to make this point in my last post, but fo...   Jul 25 2006, 01:17 PM
maddy29   ej-what is the website for? who is it geared at? w...   Jul 25 2006, 01:29 PM
zahia1996   I'll try and keep this as brief as possible (h...   Jul 25 2006, 01:57 PM
pixiedust   I think I'd have go with the answers from som...   Jul 25 2006, 02:05 PM
erinjane   I'll give you some direct info from the websit...   Jul 25 2006, 02:13 PM
girlbomb   I, too, wonder about the "empowering" th...   Jul 25 2006, 04:25 PM
pixiedust   I can't help going back to what falljackets sa...   Jul 25 2006, 05:33 PM
zahia1996   Pixie, what you mentioned about FJ made me think. ...   Jul 25 2006, 07:26 PM
knorl05   zahia: the double standards exist and it is frustr...   Jul 25 2006, 08:44 PM
falljackets   wow, knorl, i completely agree with your last post...   Jul 25 2006, 09:26 PM
txplumwine   This is a fantastic thread and I'm so glad to ...   Jul 25 2006, 10:09 PM
erinjane   Prostitution is actually legal in canada, but NOT ...   Jul 25 2006, 10:38 PM
doodlebug   Um...just want to clarify...while prostitution is ...   Jul 25 2006, 11:07 PM
maddy29   great post doodlebug. you said what i was thinkin...   Jul 26 2006, 08:08 AM
erinjane   Seconded doodle. I don't think I made it clea...   Jul 26 2006, 10:51 AM
greenbean   Condoleeza Rice. Hillary Clinton. Barbara Boxer. D...   Jul 26 2006, 11:16 AM
erinjane   I agree greenbean. I wouldn't define power ex...   Jul 26 2006, 02:37 PM
candycane_girl   I think the problem here is that there are so many...   Jul 26 2006, 02:45 PM
erinjane   That's exactly what I was thinking...another ...   Jul 26 2006, 02:46 PM
knorl05   maddy: i do agree.   Jul 26 2006, 04:14 PM
knorl05   i'm big into philosophy, so i'm gonna inte...   Jul 26 2006, 04:28 PM
zahia1996   That's a good point Knorl. But it made me thin...   Jul 26 2006, 09:43 PM
pixiedust   The is really good insight khorl. It looks like y...   Jul 26 2006, 10:10 PM
maddy29   Love this knorl! "considering sex appeal...   Jul 27 2006, 06:59 AM
doodlebug   Hey all...this is a quick post...I'm sorry I d...   Jul 27 2006, 09:45 AM
maddy29   very true doodle:)   Jul 27 2006, 09:52 AM
pixiedust   You are right Doodle! You couldn't stay em...   Jul 27 2006, 10:02 AM
falljackets   i think that makes total sense, doodle. people g...   Jul 27 2006, 10:15 AM
maddy29   so fj-for you it's more the taking of the pict...   Jul 27 2006, 10:25 AM
falljackets   absolutely. i took down the website nearly two yea...   Jul 27 2006, 10:34 AM
pixiedust   That makes sense FJ. I am always mezmerized with ...   Jul 27 2006, 10:43 AM
erinjane   I'm inclined to agree with Falljackets in term...   Jul 27 2006, 10:52 AM
knorl05   absolutely no time to reply, at work. just wanted ...   Jul 27 2006, 11:28 AM
knorl05   FJ: you have an amazing philosophy on life that i ...   Jul 27 2006, 05:04 PM
girlbomb   Okay, I'm not trying to be a total see-you-nex...   Jul 27 2006, 07:19 PM
nohope   I consider anything in which sexuality is used to ...   Jul 27 2006, 08:41 PM
knorl05   girlbomb: thats an excellent point. it's true ...   Jul 27 2006, 08:55 PM
girlbomb   Okay, I'd edit my last post, but I'd rathe...   Jul 27 2006, 08:59 PM
knorl05   nohope: although i respect your opinion, i complet...   Jul 27 2006, 09:10 PM
sixelacat   So, I think what girlbomb is trying to differentia...   Jul 27 2006, 10:37 PM
zahia1996   I got so wrapped up reading what you all had to sa...   Jul 27 2006, 11:28 PM
doodlebug   I don't have the brain power for this tonight,...   Jul 27 2006, 11:37 PM
maddy29   doodle-it's funny you brought up marriage, bec...   Jul 28 2006, 07:56 AM
greenbean   I can't believe all the tearing down of beauti...   Jul 28 2006, 11:11 AM
maddy29   greenbean-where do you see women being torn down? ...   Jul 28 2006, 12:01 PM
pixiedust   I agree...I don't think anyone's being tor...   Jul 28 2006, 12:12 PM
maddy29   ooh, that's interesting pixie! or what abo...   Jul 28 2006, 12:23 PM
knorl05   greenbean: what does being a feminist mean to you?   Jul 28 2006, 12:25 PM
katiebelle2882   ok so i guess this thread got started. first off i...   Jul 28 2006, 12:48 PM
erinjane   I wouldn't say I see sex stores in the same av...   Jul 28 2006, 01:04 PM
lucizoe   I think a big issue is that no one's choices a...   Jul 28 2006, 01:50 PM
knorl05   let's just throw some definitions around for f...   Jul 28 2006, 03:28 PM
knorl05   greenbean: i would say if you support the feminist...   Jul 28 2006, 03:49 PM
pixiedust   Traditional marriage=prostitution would be a real ...   Jul 28 2006, 04:42 PM
lucizoe   knorl, thanks for the definitions - most helpful. ...   Jul 28 2006, 04:48 PM
knorl05   pixie, yes i agree, most traditional marriages hol...   Jul 28 2006, 07:30 PM
doodlebug   If sex toy stores are involved in the sex trade, t...   Jul 28 2006, 08:16 PM
knorl05   doodlebug: so then in that light, women should att...   Jul 28 2006, 08:58 PM
doodlebug   knorl, if you are reading what I wrote as saying w...   Jul 28 2006, 09:12 PM
knorl05   doodlebug: could be i misunderstood you. i think i...   Jul 28 2006, 09:24 PM
doodlebug   knorl, I edited my last post as you were posting...   Jul 28 2006, 09:45 PM
knorl05   doodlebug: ahh. yes, completely. thank you for cla...   Jul 28 2006, 09:59 PM
battygurl   Just to clear up the terms here, what you're...   Jul 29 2006, 12:02 AM
lucizoe   battygurl, I would really like to see some documen...   Jul 29 2006, 08:28 AM
battygurl   Eek, I shouldn't have posted when I was so tir...   Jul 29 2006, 11:26 AM
erinjane   Took the words straight outta my head. One thi...   Jul 29 2006, 11:59 AM
lucizoe   Heh, battygurl, I got ya. I agree that the lily-wh...   Jul 29 2006, 12:48 PM
girlbomb   Gah. You know, the sex industry that I've wi...   Jul 29 2006, 05:24 PM
erinjane   Talking about things like bangbus and girls gone w...   Jul 29 2006, 06:04 PM
greenbean   See Girlbomb, thats why this discussion is so conf...   Jul 29 2006, 08:48 PM
nohope   I don’t think it’s all that different at all. ...   Jul 29 2006, 10:27 PM
pepper   oh, nohope. speaking true. nice one.   Jul 29 2006, 11:17 PM
battygurl   Yeah, nohope I think you're right about most p...   Jul 30 2006, 02:33 AM
zahia1996   During (yet another) sleepless night, I decided to...   Jul 30 2006, 02:56 AM
pixiedust   Ok..I went to bed thinking about teh "traditi...   Jul 30 2006, 10:05 AM
greenbean   Wait, nohope...what? Are you saying that whether ...   Jul 30 2006, 01:23 PM
pixiedust   I honestly don't think that was what he was sa...   Jul 30 2006, 01:34 PM
knorl05   pixie: i think thats the key. to live according to...   Jul 30 2006, 09:00 PM
maddy29   greenbean- im not sure where you got the idea that...   Jul 31 2006, 08:34 AM
greenbean   Maddy, so sorry if you thought I was calling you a...   Jul 31 2006, 12:06 PM
pixiedust   Right on Maddy! There will always be exceptio...   Jul 31 2006, 12:27 PM
snafooey   No, but frankly using the expression "femin...   Aug 1 2006, 11:57 AM
pixiedust   Snafooey...I said it was like "the people who...   Aug 1 2006, 12:25 PM
snafooey   Fair enough - it really wasn't clear to me fro...   Aug 1 2006, 12:39 PM
pixiedust   I'm going to try to keep this short. I'm ...   Aug 1 2006, 01:59 PM
snafooey   So is everyone who challenges something someone el...   Aug 1 2006, 02:12 PM
pixiedust   Well...I guess I see debate as expressing ideas an...   Aug 1 2006, 02:57 PM
snafooey   Great discussion? It's "debates" lik...   Aug 1 2006, 03:09 PM
katiebelle2882   all i am going to say is (and i know many other bu...   Aug 1 2006, 03:40 PM
erinjane   Normally I keep out of these, but I think that pi...   Aug 1 2006, 04:53 PM
snafooey   Erinjane, I see what you're saying, but I refr...   Aug 1 2006, 05:04 PM
erinjane   Yeah, I understand, i get really defensive myself ...   Aug 1 2006, 06:03 PM
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