[stargazer]

thanks much jo.

it is not that i've seriously considered doing stripping. and dom is more entertainment on a mindfuck level for me. i know it is sex work too. but i like to think in a "what if" scenario...i try to put myself in other people's shoes, really...i try not to make judgments about what puts people in certain positions 'cause i think, "hey, that could be me." thanks for sharing your insight with me.

i will take time to read the articles you have shown me. i'm always willing to hear another person's point of view.

chris rock said that if your daughter is wearing the clear glass heels, then you've messed up as a father. i thought that was a funny comment and inisightful. everyone has endured some kind of trauma...look i've just sublimated my own trauma into being a psychologist...although there is a dom/sadist role in some way connected with being a doctor...roles Freud has numerous writings about...

[Jo Weldon]

If you're working as a counselour, it could be (I'm not assuming that it is the case, just putting out there) that the "sample" of women you're meeting who want to strip are more representative of traumatized women, than of women who don't come in for counseling who also want to strip.

One of the biggest attractions of stripping is that you don't need a resume to get the job, BTW. Job hunting sucks. Stripping is way more pleasant than job hunting.

Just for the record, domme work is usually service work too.
http://www.maxfisch.com
You can read the reviews clients write about the dommes to get a fairly realistic idea of what the job commonly entails. And you can read the discussions to get a sense of how the dommes negotiate their marketing.

I felt that stripping was pretty dominant in some senses--if someone annoyed you, you weren't confined to a room with them for hours (even in the VIP room, as a stripper I could just step out when necessary), you move on. And they don't stand you up, tell you you're not wearing the right kind fo shoes for a "true dominant woman," blah blah blah. Prodomination looks very different than it is. And I do know.

I have many, many articles about stripping that provoked thoughts for me on my web page:
http://www.gstringsforever.com/page1.html

If you're interested in where feminism comes into sex work, you'll find a lot of people have given it plenty of thought and discussion when you see these articles--many of which I'm willing to bet you haven't seen before, and even less likely in the context that I present them.

It is remarkably easy to read what sex workers have to say these days! I love that!

very interesting thread. i've gone through the this thread.

i've been thinking about stripping in general. not as a job myself, but what drives women to take part in being a stripper. mainly those that work in clubs. i've worked with young adolescents (i'm a counselor), 17 y/o young women into cocaine who would usually talk about becoming a dancer. and i knew part of it grew from this culture. so, i've had issues with women making themselves so vulnerable for the sake of a drug habit. i know there are smart women in the business. but, there is a part that still seems like a women is playing into the white male patrichial system of things. no matter how many strippers say they are in control. and then there are those that eventually get into prostitution to make more money.

i really do enjoy burlesque. i enjoy the tease and seduction part of this type of entertainment. i'm very intrigued with dita von tease and all of the other legendary burlesque dancers. i think i like that the women have natural bodies in some way. i can't really explain it. plus, i like to tease and seduce my lovers...so it is really an extension on stage. pretty cool.

if i had to do sex work, then i would definitely dom. i would much rather make a man be the vulnerable one and me getting paid instead of the reverse. phone sex could be equated with this act as well. yeah, i like to be in control.

i'm interested to read what others take is on sex work. i'm glad there is a thread to discuss this topic. i think it definitely has to do with a hierarchy, money, politics, power/powerless....it is just transitioned into sex work. a very relevant topic since the beginning of time. i mean, look at all of the hub bub over mary magdalene...

oh, and i'm all for annie sprinkle. talk about a dom! she's awesome.

i think what is feminist about this topic is that we are openly discussing sex and any discussion regarding sex is still taboo...even today...i fear there is a loss of what sexuality is...but, that is for another time to discuss...

[stargazer]

very interesting thread. i've gone through the this thread.

i've been thinking about stripping in general. not as a job myself, but what drives women to take part in being a stripper. mainly those that work in clubs. i've worked with young adolescents (i'm a counselor), 17 y/o young women into cocaine who would usually talk about becoming a dancer. and i knew part of it grew from this culture. so, i've had issues with women making themselves so vulnerable for the sake of a drug habit. i know there are smart women in the business. but, there is a part that still seems like a women is playing into the white male patrichial system of things. no matter how many strippers say they are in control. and then there are those that eventually get into prostitution to make more money.

i really do enjoy burlesque. i enjoy the tease and seduction part of this type of entertainment. i'm very intrigued with dita von tease and all of the other legendary burlesque dancers. i think i like that the women have natural bodies in some way. i can't really explain it. plus, i like to tease and seduce my lovers...so it is really an extension on stage. pretty cool.

if i had to do sex work, then i would definitely dom. i would much rather make a man be the vulnerable one and me getting paid instead of the reverse. phone sex could be equated with this act as well. yeah, i like to be in control.

i'm interested to read what others take is on sex work. i'm glad there is a thread to discuss this topic. i think it definitely has to do with a hierarchy, money, politics, power/powerless....it is just transitioned into sex work. a very relevant topic since the beginning of time. i mean, look at all of the hub bub over mary magdalene...

oh, and i'm all for annie sprinkle. talk about a dom! she's awesome.

i think what is feminist about this topic is that we are openly discussing sex and any discussion regarding sex is still taboo...even today...i fear there is a loss of what sexuality is...but, that is for another time to discuss...

[Jo Weldon]

I feel like I'm coming out of nowhere--I used to lurk in this lounge quite a bit, and I've had to reregister in order to come out of lurkdom, so...

I was a stripper for fifteen years, and I've been a burlesque performer/performance artist on and off for decades. To me, a burlesque performer is not a meat-and-potatoes sex worker, although a mainstream stripper (i.e., working in a strip joint rather than a cabaret or theater) is. There are people who would say even a stripper isn't a sex worker.

I don't think there's any one good answer to this. I've also worked more hardcore sex industry jobs than stripping, so I don't need to establish "street cred," or whatever I'm trying to do, although I'm not saying I DON'T seek credibility--I do. I just sometimes feel like, having really busted my ass to get money out of men I wasn't attracted to, under conditions where I wasn't exploring my sensuality or expressing myself or even trying to have fun--at least, not as my primary motivation--that for me to say that what I do when I'm performing burlesque is sex work is a bit off.

Now, burlesque IS adult entertainment, so the lines are definitely blurry.

I am also most certainly not saying that one is more valid, useful, feminist, etc., than the other. I just do not feel the same need to seek out customers' desires doing burlesque as I did stripping in a strip joint. And that whole thing of either trying to figure out what they want, or hoping that they want what I'm willing to deal, was for me the essence of every transaction I really identified as sex work. Strip joint stripping felt much more like a service job than a performing job, although of course if I hadn't been able to perform in the clubs in addition to doing the service I might not have stuck with the job. But the service part of it was the core of the job.

I'm not getting it all perfect...but I've been thinking about this A LOT lately, and I definitely identify as a sex worker first and an artist second when I'm working in a strip joint. In burlesque, I'm an artist first and a sex worker second.

interesting thread.

i've thought about domming quite a few times, and recently. unfortunately, the dungeon i have a connection with requires you to work a LOT of hours -- at the minimum 20 hours a week. with my regular 45+ hour a week job, theres no way i can do that now...and i need the day job for the health insurance.

i'm a burlesque performer, and it is indeed a grey area: while burlesque certainly involves stripping, it is more about the long slow tease-- and much of it borders on performance art, depending on the performer.

quite frankly, i would be very flattered to find out someone found me titallating enough to fantasize about me...unfortunately, unlike other kinds of stripping, there is *very little* money to be made in burlesque.

[nohope]

The Lusty Lady loses its innocence - Male workers are making waves at the feminist icon and trouble is brewing.

http://www.iww.org/en/node/2897

[auralpoison]

See page two of this thread for your answer.

[LoveMyPugs]

This is just complete and total curiosity but exactly how does one become a phone sex operator?

[misspissed]

interesting thread.

i've thought about domming quite a few times, and recently. unfortunately, the dungeon i have a connection with requires you to work a LOT of hours -- at the minimum 20 hours a week. with my regular 45+ hour a week job, theres no way i can do that now...and i need the day job for the health insurance.

i'm a burlesque performer, and it is indeed a grey area: while burlesque certainly involves stripping, it is more about the long slow tease-- and much of it borders on performance art, depending on the performer.

quite frankly, i would be very flattered to find out someone found me titallating enough to fantasize about me...unfortunately, unlike other kinds of stripping, there is *very little* money to be made in burlesque.

[sallyglass]

uuugh watching a straight man dance is like watching your sister strip at a stag party...

[katiebelle2882]

I am going to give you a little tip wombat-dont try to out-snark AP. you will lose.

[wombat]

um, sorry you're so narrow in your definitions you have to *snap*, aural ...chillllll.

and I'm *so glad* I have chosen to ignore bum-face.

Wish I could do it twice.

[auralpoison]

Exactly the point, Erinjane! Perhaps Wombat failed to see the title of the thread. Perhaps she/he also failed to read the posts in their entirety & chose to take the gist as a blanket statement of "no man can dance sexily," which was not the intent. I thought I'd made the point clearly, but apparently not. We were speaking *specifically* of sex workers (Again, see the title of the thread, couldn't be more simple, really.) & bringing musicians into it was indeed a definite derailment of the thread. We didn't need to be "set straight" about "rockers" because they have no real place in a discussion that caters solely to people that work in the sex industry. Ones' meager two cents versus the dollar bills for the gstring, if you will.

[erinjane]

Not to be rude about it, wombat, but this particular thread is about those of us involved in sex work in some form or another. While I don't really agree with Kalevra's overall opinion that only girls can move on stage, we were talking specifically about strippers and sex workers. The comment about rockers was a bit of a de-railment.

[wombat]

Two related topics are being discussed -- one is male versus female strippers and one is whether men in general can move as good as women (Kalevra's post).

My well-informed contribution is that, indeed, men in general can.

In fact, there are three topic of conversation, simultaneously here: Strippers, phone sex, and whether men can be sexay when dancing.

For heck's sake, aural, keep up!

But then, it's not the first time you've been wrong.

[kelkello]

On the phone sex topic: I never thought I would find it remotely erotic until I got a boyfriend who has four full time at home kids. We rarely get to see each other alone. Now phone sex is a regular part of our relationship (granted, I'm not a sex worker, but if need be, I think I could make some extra cash on the side with this..hmmm). If you have someone who is good with words and can think on the fly, it's very nice.

[auralpoison]

Well, I'm sure it's not the first time you've ever been wrong.

[wombat]

Now, now, I think my post fits under the topic of men dancing and moving on stage quite well.

*snark attack averted!*

[auralpoison]

No, we weren't forgetting about "rockers". We're talking about *strippers*, so there was nothing to set straight. Musicians simply had nothing to do with the conversation. A man shaking his ass behind a guitar is one thing & a man oiled up in a banana hammock thrusting his groin in your face is another.

I can't say I find the for pay phonesex particularly erotic, Kalevra. Rather boring actually. I was just about making money.

[wombat]

Y'all forgetting about ROCKERS.
Sexy men on stage

Me and Pinkpoodle can set you straight!

[anna k]

I've done phone sex before (not for pay), when it's late at night and I'm bored, and it can turn me on to know that someone is getting off on my voice, regardless of what I look like. I never meet the guys, and while it can be sexy to work myself up and get into it, if the same guy was with me I would be repulsed by him touching me. It's like some kind of futuristic sex where exchanging fluids is dangerous and sex is exchanged without touching.

I've thought about working for a company, but it's a small secret vice of mine and I wouldn't want anyone I know to know that I was doing it.

I never liked male dancers either, especially if they do too many grinding/pelvis thrust moves in a teeny little banana hammock. I never liked beefed-up guys anyway, so I would be too embarassed if one dancer started shaking it in my face or wanting me to get into it.