[laniethezany]

Catherine Roraback, the attorney who argued Griswold v. Connecticut (a landmark Supreme Court case dealing with the right to contraception), died today. She was amazing.

[pollystyrene]

Polly, I am jelous. No one will ever make a story called "Jennifer, Daughter of the Devil." "Jennifers," on TV shows, are always sweet little women. I need a good villanous Jennifer!

I certainly don't know what you're talking about, Jennifer!

[nickclick]

they needed to fund a study to tell us feminists are more satisfied? you mean, people who make conscious and positive life choices enjoy their lives more? uh duh.

[culturehandy]

I read about the feminists and sex thing in The Globe & Mail yesterday.

[kittenb]

I always knew we were sexier that non-feminists.

Polly, I am jelous. No one will ever make a story called "Jennifer, Daughter of the Devil." "Jennifers," on TV shows, are always sweet little women. I need a good villanous Jennifer!

Oh, and as for that LONG ASS POST, at least I am warned as that will probably be the topic of converstation next week in my office. My coworker loves to talk about that kind of thing.

[pollystyrene]

Suck it, Phyllis Schlafly!

[girlygirlgag]

blah blah blah

d00d, you need to losen up your tinfoil hat.

[pepper]

wtf. you know i have to ignore that shit. who posts anything that long yo? yikes.

[culturehandy]

Meanwhile back at the fishbowl.

Freckle, I'd be scared if I had a child, too. I know at work that I get worried that someone is going to come in so angry with their worker...you just never know.

[phobia]

Frekle -- at least you are doing something PROactive, though, which can help you feel a little more in control. A lot of parents don't/can't/won't even do that ... they just make their kids into paranoid basket cases instead of actually giving them coping skills. And give the little one some credit -- I'm sure she's absorbed plenty of your lessons (you did say she was kind and caring a good student so I'm sure she's picked up plenty!), so at some point you'll just have to trust her to make her way in the world in the right way, even when bad things happen.

Pepper -- you sound like me and my friends growing up, until we got all goth in high school. Then we were still weird-looking, and still read books, but were at least a little menacing. Can you say protective coloring ?

Anyway, I think one of the most important things parents can do for a kid being bullied is BELIEVE THEM and take their side, cause the administrators sure won't. And make sure they know you'll always be on their side, because I do remember being afraid to tell my mom what was happening because I was really worried (totally unneccesarily) that she'd think it was all my fault somehow. Kids who get bullied definitely have non-standard ways of thinking, it's not always rational, you know?

[pepper]

freckle don't appologize. little is only in first grade and chili pepperette just turned 16 weeks yesterday and this conversation is making me want to shadow them for the rest of their lives while i homeschool them too.
i don't remember shit being so fucked up when i was a kid. bullying sucked then too, i was the big eyed, curly haired, gangly, oddly dressed child of hippie parents with a weird lunch who read actual books on purpose for maude's sake, i was picked on Galore! but i don't remember it being like this. teen aged girls sure weren't killing each other in the river way back then, that's for sure!

my kids are getting martial arts training and that's that.

[freckleface7]

Just the way of the fucked up world sweetheart. Sucks doesn't it?!?! Makes me worried for my future children if they are ever bullied. How will I handle it? Having the flashbacks from my experiences in 7th and 8th grade.

my frecklette starts high school next year and let me tell you, this whole conversation here is freaking me the hell out.
not that it's anything new, oh maud no.
I've been talking to her about guns in schools sinse she was 6 or 7, even before the mr thought it was neccessary and he deals w/ guns every day. what a shitty thing to be right about though.

right after the last attacks at a school, I /we went over it all w/ her again, what to do if you see someone w/ a gun or knife (depends on where you are/what the situation is- do you tell a teacher or just hide yourself?) and then as she was leaving the house that next morning, I felt so much dread at her going.. the last attacks weren't even anywhere close to us here but they could have been. it could have happened anywhere.
and so I remember yelling at her ' run in a zig zag frecklette!' as she was walking out the door.
she is pretty blaise about it; her school does drills, they practice, they talk, but how much good does it really do? the kids that are going to snap are probably so disenfranchised w/ the school establishment that all of that is just a joke to them. it's another example of their own powerlessness by being ordered to do something like that.
she's not in the "in crowd" at school and I secretly hope that will save her rather than make her that much more of a target. maud forgive me for saying that and I feel sick to my stomach but she is just a good girl. not the star sportsplayer, not the homecoming queen, but a good and genuninely kind person, the kind I am so very proud is my daughter and very often, better than I deserve.
as a mother you cannot help but play those type of scenarious out in your head, and then feel ashamed for the thoughts in the first place.

I don't know.. sometimes I feel a lot of guilt for bringing frecklette into this world as fucked up as it is.
that child is my HEART and I would die for her many many times over w/ no thought other than wondering if I've taught or loved her enough yet, but it's scary as hell to be a parent today.

to get a grip and reign my own paranoia in to check, I have approached the mr's Army unit about doing a pro-active School Saftey course for the teens in our group. (a separate program can be developed for the younger children in time too.) I'm thinking something situationally based and yah, realistic to a degree. then the second half would be w/ a psychologist, to cover the emotional/psychological effects of all of it, not just the immediate personal saftey but how to cope w/ the news when there is another report of it happening. it's stressful and I very much think it does shape or affect a childhood.

I can't go to school or keep her safe 24/7, but I Can give her as many tools as possible, short of arming her w/ a weapon or keeping her home. (both thoughts that have occured to me. )

= end rant.= I'm sorry everyone, this just hits close to home for me.

[culturehandy]

Phobia, I absolutely agree.

In such extreme instances, there is more than one issue. It's just sad that one particular group of people always get the blame.

[LoveMyPugs]

Blaming the victim for the problem, making it the responsibility of the victim to NOT get bullied, and reacting to the problem instead of trying to prevent it.

Just the way of the fucked up world sweetheart. Sucks doesn't it?!?! Makes me worried for my future children if they are ever bullied. How will I handle it? Having the flashbacks from my experiences in 7th and 8th grade.

[phobia]

"While I'm certainly not saying that taking lives is okay, I am understand that there are deep seeded issues which drive someone to kill their classmates. "

Yeah, totally. I remember thinking when I saw the video of those Columbine boys was "man, they look just like me and my friends." I definitely can identify with hating the people who bully you so much that you want to just destroy them, but like Pugs, I manged to get through ok. With me it was also Junior High -- by the time high school rolled around, everyone had kind of grown up and there really wasn't bullying anymore the way it had been in like 7-8th grades. But yeah, someone should have noticed these kids were in such trouble -- and it doesn't help that the school administrations often blame the victim of bullying, IME. Also, people need to understand more about how and why people bully -- it's NOT the kids with the low self-esteem! Blaming the victim for the problem, making it the responsibility of the victim to NOT get bullied, and reacting to the problem instead of trying to prevent it.... hmm.... sounds awfully familiar....

[laniethezany]

I definitely echo everyone's "glad I graduated pre-Columbine" sentiments. In high school, my group of friends and I were into alternative music, wore flannel shirts over our political or obscure band t-shirts everyday and all sported trench coats. This was before grunge hit so we were labeled freaks and actually called "The Flannels" by our classmates. In truth we were all hippie-dippie pacifists, environmentalists, animal rights activists, etc. But something about the movie Heathers spoke to us, and we jokingly maintained a list of people we'd save if we ever blew up our high school. Anyone who knew us at all would know we'd never actually carry out such a plan, but in the post-Columbine days we would have been seen as a serious threat, I'm sure.

GT - I saw the stuff about the peace grannies in a documentary about how easy it is to end up on the terrorist watch list these days. I've always been leery of the government's ability to spy on people, probably because my paternal grandparents were members of the Communist Party while McCarthy was on his rampage. This information was kept from me until fairly recently - my dad finally spilled it after he took me to see Good Night and Good Luck. But the distrust of the government still got through to me, even if I didn't previously completely understand why I wasn't supposed to trust them. I think my mom actually thought that when I decided to go to law school this signaled a turning point where I'd become more like her side of the family - but I actually became even more radicalized.

[LoveMyPugs]

ch - my parents should have removed me from the school i was in. they admit it now but only because they see what's happened to me and to us as a family because of it. they made a decision though and even though i think it was wrong they were the parents and did what they thought was right. whatever. when i think back to how i coped with that whole thing i can't put my finger on what got me through it. in my case there were definantly issues at home as well. there was something that got me throught it and never let me go over the edge. i wish i knew what it was. not to toot my own horn or anything but i guess i was just a tough fucking kid. i'm not anymore. the littlest amount of stress will send me on an emotional rollercoaster. it's terrible. i really must get some help someday. i just need to break down and admit it to myself that i'm not over it and need to talk about it with a professional. i'm stubborn and hard at heart.

[culturehandy]

Pugs, I'm so sorry to hear about your high school experience. Unfortunately, not everyone has the coping mechanisms you do. Some people reach a point where they just snap and something happens. Unfortunately innocents people are harmed or killed in the process. It's hard to approach parents about things too. I suspect that sometimes there may also be issues at home.

[LoveMyPugs]

ch - i was bullied relentlessly in junior high school (before i was into any goth or metal) and i won't deny contemplating bring a gun to school and blowing away the two girls who did the bullying. those fucking bitches would have had it coming. i still have issues that are so deep rooted in me about them that i can't even bring myself to talk to a therapist about it. my family and mr. pugs wishes i would but i just can't do it. i dream about it at times and they are usually really intense but when i talk about it i just cry and get pissed and hate them, my parents, the school, the other students and myself. i was near the breaking point many times. glad i survived that terrible time in my life. they should thank god everyday that i had the self control i did and that they survived as well. IMO we don't need people like them on this planet. Sorry for that sick little rant there. I have issues.

[culturehandy]

There was a threat recently at one of the Universities in this city. The police were looking through everyones stuff, they were at all the doors, etc. The reason that we see Goth kids, often do things like this, is because they aren't considered, by their peers, to be "normal". So they get bullied. Unfortunately everyone has their breaking point.

While I'm certainly not saying that taking lives is okay, I am understand that there are deep seeded issues which drive someone to kill their classmates. No one ever seems to deal with this. The thought is, Okay, well, the kids is goth, they must be into devil worship and they were plotting do this to become one of satan's minions. That sounds a little rediculous doesn't it?