[i_am_jan]

pointybird:

I'm glad you were able to work it out with your parents eventually in some small way - ?

I did not tell my parents beforehand, they would have found a way to stop me in their militance and I knew that. But they found out hours later, I'm not sure how still, maybe my kid sister cracked.

Unfortunately, it ruined my relationship with my parents for a while. They condemned me as a horrible person at the age of 16 and felt justified in shaming me whenever and wherever they felt necessary and in front of whomever they wanted to discuss the matter of my pregnancy and abortion. To this day, I wear it like a character in a Hawthorne novel. But years later, it is never discussed, having been replaced by silence. It is the elephant in the room whenever someone gets pregnant or pregnancy is mentioned. It is between us whenever I look into my mother's or father's eyes.

Funny thing is, my parents were abusive to my siblings and me, physically, mentally and emotionally. They believed and quoted "spare the rod, spoil the child" which is a quote from their Bible. My mom has stated on many occasions that she "didn't know what else to do with her life except have babies". She has stated on many occasions that she "did not like being a mother". She has had breakdowns periodically from the stress of having 6 children all close in age. She still has breakdowns at the age of 73 from child-related stress, the most recent breakdown was earlier this year and she just sort of got through it in the last few months.

But I forgave my parents a long time ago. I think I understand where their fear comes from. Ingrained in them was a "terrible God" and a "jealous God" (this is the way they describe 'him' and those are quotes from their Bible). Their own parents' religion and values were literally beaten into them. They have stated it is an "abomination in the eyes of the Lord" to question anything written in their Bible.

I know their fears and judging/policing of others actually comes from a place of compassion, however misguided. They feared for me that I would go to that 'fiery hell' they imagined. I also know that they love me to the best of their ability. I appreciate how difficult it was for my mom and dad to raise us, I watched them.

I love my parents so much. I do regret that the issue of my choice had to come between us. But with them there is always something.

I'm still glad I'm not a mother though, it is something I would not do well. And I believe each and every child deserves a willing caregiver at the very least.

Thanks again for listening everyone. It's so important to me to be honest about my life.

[lapis]

I apologize, friends, for straying from the discussion for a brief chat with one of the posters and hope the pertinent conversation continues...

[lapis]

WithoutExcuse, thanks. I genuinely appreciate your use of real words to insult us (me in particular) as opposed to hiding behind inflammatory pictures and a fabricated first-person story. Being real is where dialogue starts, so thanks for this gesture of authenticity. I appreciate it. If you notice, we are not robots; we tend to be a diverse group of free-thinking people who welcome open discussions and try to foster a community of idea-sharing. If you would be interested in having a mutually respectful conversation about your personal experience with abortion (which is what this thread is about), I would love to hear what you have to say. But since you pulled your first-person "account" and photos come from a website, I suspect that your experiences with abortion are not very authentic and your responses hold a degree of malevolence not really appropriate to the spirit of the thread. Your redundant posts don't contribute to a discussion any more than hitting someone over the head repeatedly 'resolves' a conflict. That's called abuse or battery, not resolving differences. Maybe your behavior constitutes good manners where you come from, but in my experience it's not conducive to being a part of a community. Best of luck to you. I hope you find a place where your ideas are heard and your manner of delivering them is respected, but you might consider some different, more respectful strategies if you want people to receive you here. Take care. Having stated my position, I am going to return to putting my energy into sharing ideas with responsive people who treat me and this forum with respect because that's the kind of community I belong to.

[i_am_jan]

karcher:

Your story really touched me actually. It brought back the same thoughts I had about the actual abortion procedure. The scraping, my mind visualizing a possible "little baby" in my belly, I obviously had the vacuum procedure as well. Man those thoughts were not pleasant. Nor was the feeling. I remember the bleeding afterward turned my stomach too.

I remember that the nurses and doctors there were very helpful during that time. Just by their holding my hand and their peaceful presence, looking into my eyes with what seemed to be compassion and understanding, it really helped me at a time when I had not much else except my boyfriend in the lobby - ?

I have to agree with you that each baby brought into this world needs prepared, capable, guides to help them through it who are able to tell the difference between right and wrong. But too many children just do not have that and it hurts my heart to see some of them on the news these days.

Your story also reminded me that, in life, timing has to be there. It simply IS a factor in all of our choices. That's just life, right?

Like, college is a great, respectable choice. But you wouldn't ask a middle school or even high school kid to do it. It could be disastrous at a bad time.

You and your husband sound like very thoughtful people karcher. It takes integrity to consider the seriousness and the total committedness it takes to care for a baby and a family, every single day. It's great that you now feel prepared to give that. That is carefulness in taking another's life into your own hands. Congratulations to you both on your new family.

[lapis]

Vapid antagonism is not welcome here. Any god-loving person would see this behavior as unloving and rude. Please take your hatred somewhere else. You are not moving people or gaining respect over here, so please go back to your robots.

[lapis]

One thing this post reminds me of is how much sheer courage it takes to make a decision like this. Some people think that women who have abortions are flippant and remorseless, buth there is an enormous life-changing component to it--you have an opportunity to redefine your life, and it takes really searching your will to get to that choice. I am so happy you all are making a space for this kind of reflection and discussion despite some sick adversaries. I think about how easy it is to be self-righteous and post pictures of bloody babies and a fake narrative versus gathering up the strength to choose not to parent within a particular moment and to narrate your life after that. When I considered having an abortion my friend reminded me that life is not scripted and that you can choose to write your life story along a line of regret and guilt but you can also choose to narrate a powerful mastery of your own spirit's desire. It makes me happy to see that you women have not fallen into that easy trap of moralizing regret because you had the clarity to act on your inner truth. Do you know? I mean some people live their entire lives not makig an authentic decision, of course I will date men, get married, believe in God, go to college, whatever. And a pregnancy can be a moment for real reflection--who do I want to be? Am I prepared to do this? What do I want my life to be like? And an abortion can be this magnificent follow-through of realizing your will. I admire your strength, ladies.

[starshine]

*WARNING*

tro$$ alert .

You can spare yourself the bogus images of "aborted babies" (i.e., miscarriages, stillborns, etc.) by going to "My Controls" at the top of any page, then looking at the Menu on the left side of the screen. Way down at the bottom under "Options" is Manage Ignored Users. Just add WithoutExcuse to your list, and you're good to go!

You know what else this means, right? The BUST Lounge Xtian Fundie Fund for Abortions is on again! You can participate by donating any amount you want/can to pro-choice organizations (such as Planned Parenthood) for every post the tro$$ makes!

Here you go karcher. Congrats on the baby and thanks for sharing!

[karcher]

oh wow. thank you jan for starting this, and everyone who's chipped in.


our first child is due next month, and as it has been making its presence felt the last few months i often wonder about the one we could've had. it was early on in our relationship, and even though we could both see ourselves as parents down the track, we weren't ready. the decision was ultimately up to me. i cried so much and couldn't talk to anyone about it - the counsellors i went to i thought were useless and just 'didn't get it', the friends i told didn't know how to react, and i was scared shitless. with the cultural and religious upbringing that i had, there was no way i was going to let my parents know, let alone discuss with them about it. i had become a hippy vegetarian too, and one of the reasons was that i didn't want to 'hurt' animals. i was also working hard on my 'career', i wasn't ready to 'sacrifice' myself or my youth. the main reason i kept giving myself though, was that i didn't want to bring into the world a child who would not have a safe and comfortable home - not materialistically, just stable loving reasonable parents. those weeks were a nightmare, really.

it wasn't easier afterwards - i wouldn't say i regret the decision, but there were many times when i wondered how i could've done it, and wished i could've had a second chance. if i let myself i could feel my child being scraped off my womb, and i would imagine how it would try holding onto the cord, clinging onto its mummy. yes i felt my body was violated, but i was also aware that i had let myself be, and i hated that feeling - i had control, but that didn't mean i liked it.

today, as we prepare ourselves for the little one, we begin to realise how much it takes to become parents and how important it is for a couple to be strong enough to build a family (for us, that is), and we are so glad, so glad that we hadn't taken up this most important job when we weren't qualified. true, people learn as they go along, and there will be arguments to whatever i say, but knowing that we hadn't brought up a fucked-up kid and that we ourselves aren't fucked up (or so we like to think) are enough reasons to believe that it was not a wrong decision. in fact, i guess there really isn't a right or wrong decision, more importantly it's how one copes with it, and learns to live with it for the rest of one's life.

it really sucked having gone through it, and still living it. it's important for me to talk about it, and not just be dismissed as oh-you-poor-thing. i think i wouldn't hide it from my children, when they're old enough and if they want to know - it's part of me, part of their dad, and part of them. i don't know if i will ever face up to my folks though - i think for their peace of mind, maybe not.


many thanx for the space, and could someone please put up again the blocking instructions for the inconsiderate one who put up those horrendous pics? there were things i wanted to refer to in earlier posts, but i don't dare to scroll down again...

[thepointybird]

Jan - yeah, I'd been to England many times before the termination, we used to have family holidays on the north west coast of England when I was a child. I don't think I'd have told my parents if I could have helped it though, simply because the whole thing would have been a lot easier without the screaming rows that ensued with them! In the end they came through for me though, and gave me the money etc, although I had to pay my dad back every last penny in installments from my social security cheque! I think they were still pretty cut up about it. But I guess they eventually figured that the child they already had was more important to them than a potential one...

Treehugger, sounds like your experience with this guy was a nightmare. Did he know about the abortion? Did he approve, or would he have liked you to have had the baby? I was lucky in a way that I didn't have to think about the father's feelings on the matter - he was a guy I knew vaguely and had a one night stand with, and by the time I even knew I was knocked up he'd disappeared off to live in Amsterdam. It's an interesting discussion though, everyone's experiences are so different.

[treehugger]

Jan, thank you for posting this. I had an abortion too, when I was 16. I was involved in a really really abusive relationship...and I shudder to think what would have happened to me, and the baby too, had I went through with the pregnancy. It was a very trying time in my life in general, and I truly believe that the baby is in a much better place than it would have been with me, and the abusive man.

[i_am_jan]

pointybird: Wow. That is an incredible story!! See - I cannot imagine having had the additional problem of having to go cross-country to have the procedure done. You had remarkable courage to forge ahead and take care of yourself the way you did, esp. considering you really didn't have familial support in regard to your decision. I feel it was considerate on your part to not bring a known-to-be unwanted child into the world. I have to ask: do you think you would have told your parents had you not had to travel to another country to get the abortion? And had you even been to England before??

[starshine]

ditto on starting this thread jan! one of my closest friends has an amazing story about her abortion, and I use teh word amazing becasue it was such an incredibly positive experience for her (well, there was a lot of prejudice up to her having it, but as soon as it was done she felt overwhelming relief and like it was the best thing she could have done) - and when she told me about it it was the first time I'd heard the experience talked about so freely and with so much gratefulness for having had one. I love her telling her story because it helps make it okay. For some reason, it's okay to speak loudly against abortion, but not for it. I so don't get that. Especially since it is such a privilege to be able to make a choice about our bodies, I know it's a choice that I cherish having. So thanks and I hope people keep their stories coming.

[girltrouble]

jan, you rock. it takes a lot of courage to say the things you've said, and i think it's that courage that makes the world a better, healther place.

[doodlebug]

jan, thank you for being brave enough to tell your story. A close friend of mine just went through an abortion (and the experience of trying to get one in the first place), and I know it's not an easy experience - but refusing to be silenced about it seems to help, in her case. I think it's important that women feel safe to speak their truths.

And on that note, everyone, just put the dumb troll on ignore. I already have.

[i_am_jan]

Lapis: I love what you have to say. It rings truth for me. And others I know who have had abortions. We are healthy women more than capable of making good and wise choices. Even at a teen age one knows whether or not she should be a parent. Yes, I am sane (although those who know me would challenge that with winks, winks, nudge, nudges), I'm well educated and have been told from a young age (toddler) that I am above average in intelligence, even "gifted" (although I must laugh at this, I certainly do not take myself that seriously and have never had a big ego as far as 'smarts' are concerned ; ) But I am a caring person to all of the people in my life and I am proud of that.

I did make a thoughtful choice that was 100% percent right for me when I chose abortion over life as a mother at the age of 16. God/Mother Nature is in each and every one of us and speaks to us through our consciences and hearts. We listen to God in our bodies as part of our survival. When we listen, we know what choices to make so that we can survive and live our lives.

I really appreciate all of the support on this board. After I first posted the thread, I must admit that I became afraid - ?. And then I realized how absurd it was that I should feel that way - ? Maybe like you said, that's why it's important to talk about our experiences openly if we feel we want to. And I feel more honest when I share my experience - it no longer feels like a secret I have to keep, or that I can't say the word "abortion."

My hope is that others will come in and share their abortion experiences as well. It certainly is a life-saving choice for those of us who have had to make it. I consider mine a story of survival.

[thepointybird]

I'm glad you started this Jan. I'm also glad that you made the point of never having felt regret. I also had a termination, at the age of 18, and not ONCE at the time or since did I feel any regret. It was right for me at the time, and yes, I'd do it again. Hopefully though I won't be let down by contraception again, as I was in that instance. At the time it was a huge deal - I grew up in Northern Ireland, where abortion was, and still is, illegal except for cases where the mother's life is endangered. My parents are stringently anti-abortion (not for religious reasons, they're not religious at all but my mother suffered repeated miscarraiges when she was young and both my brother and I are adopted), but because I was unemployed at the time, I had to beg and plead with them to lend me the money to travel to England for the procedure. They eventually came round when the realised how deadly serious I was about not going through with the pregnancy, and that I probably would have gone the backstreet abortion route without their help. I've never felt maternal, I felt absolutely nothing when I was pregnant, I had the abortion. And even though it was pretty horrific (I had a vacuum procedure), I have never once regretted my decision or felt bad about it. Like yourself, I only regret that it happened in the first place.

[lapis]

Jan, thank you. This is really important--people need to talk about their experiences. I posted about the problem of lacking (positive) narratives about abortions in our society in another thread awhile back. Creating a supportive environment and building vocabularies for personal histories seems like of part of the work necessary to make choice a real possibility for people. Violent reactions to abortions seem to stem from sheer ignorace (on the part of those who have not been through them), unresolved issues, and lack of compassion. And telling real stories--rather than posting inflammatory, inaccurate pictures, probable lies, and judgmental bullshit--is political and educational. I am grateful for your openness and hope more people do the same. You are proof that an abortion can be the right choice for a sane and healthy person--and it can be the right choice over time, as they look back. It makes me so angry that this decision gets left in the dark, that society makes it hard to talk about having an abortion in a way that's not laden with guilt. I think some of it is because women are socialized to not think for themselves, that personal decisions are seen as self-interested or selfish, even suggesting that putting the needs of a bundle of replicating cells is ideal to taking stock of your own needs. You did the right thing and continue to by making your experience public!

[missladyj]

thanks for sharing your story jan

[girltrouble]

sorry, i meant to do this last night.


the bustie's least favorite troll goofy euphy is back, this link will take you directly to your blocking screen. just hit update, and he will be blocked.

new troll : withoutexcuse

************************************

if he posts in other threads you can post this same link. here is the link info, but you'll have to add the brackets. i've set it up so you just have to put left brackets "[" on the first and second lines below:

url=http://www.bust.com/lounge/index.php?act=usercp&CODE=ignore&uid=26179]new troll : withoutexcuse
/url]

[i_am_jan]

Thanks for the support.

I feel that abortion is a responsible decision.

A legal, respectable choice made by millions of responsible citizens each year. And it should be treated as such, rather than silenced as some others would have it.

This does not make it a desirable situation to be in, like so many other unpleasant life situations one wouldn't choose to be in.

But it is a normal and acceptable topic for discussion.

Feel free to share your story if you want.