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> The Jena Six
girltrouble
post Oct 4 2007, 05:44 AM
Post #1


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hey doxy. i thought i'd drop you a note. harry sherer (spinal tap, simpsons) was on our local seattle radio talking about new orleans. he was talking about how politics are different down there. he was talking about how after the katrina whites in general hated ray nagin, but he said, many of the old guard whites voted for him anyways he said "because they still couldn't forgive his repubican rival's father for desegregating the city capitol. umpteen years ago."

wow. things are really different down there, and like i said, racism doesn't follow universal rules, it changes it's tatics depending on environment. every place is different.

catch you on the late, late, kid...
gt.

(ps x-posted in the 'nawlins thread)


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doxy
post Sep 30 2007, 10:47 AM
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Sorry girlygagger, never said you couldn't have an opinion because you, or anyone for that matter, didn't live here.
Guess that means I'm not dismissive or ignorant then, thanks. It's almost looking the other way around at the moment...almost wink.gif And yes, Mr. Sharpton does have an opinion...a pretty damn good one.
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girltrouble
post Sep 29 2007, 01:48 PM
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and i didn't say you couldn't have an opinion. please don't take it as an attack on you, or what you said. chica, if anything i'm trying to mediate what you are both saying. i'm not the enemy. i just think we need to look at this taking different things into account.


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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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girlygirlgag
post Sep 29 2007, 01:33 PM
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Not once did anyone say it is the same all over the country. However, saying that a person can't have an opinion on a matter, because they don't live there is dismissive and ignorant.

Bah, what evs.

I mean, Al Sharpton doesn't live there, but he certainly has an opinion.


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girltrouble
post Sep 29 2007, 01:13 PM
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QUOTE
sybarite:
GT, Um, you should know that doxy is a dude, though. smile.gif

really? oof. i suppose i should have egg on my face, but i've been doing that a lot lately, even irl. it seems in addition to being a racist, sexist, homophobic black tranny dyke, it seems i think all boys should be girls....


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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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sybarite
post Sep 29 2007, 10:41 AM
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I'm reading this thread with interest. Doxy, I also see where you're coming from and appreciate you starting a discussion on the Jena Six.

GT, I agree with much of your most recent post. Um, you should know that doxy is a dude, though. smile.gif

'I think location is a huge factor. what flies in seattle won't work for a second in other places, and vice versa. i've been in cities where the racsism was palpable, wash, dc. new orleans, st. louis, atlanta. all riots in all cities are not the same, there are stories of things that went on locally that feed into the way people act and react.'

I agree with this completely, because of what you said next. It is important to be as precise and specific as we can be when talking politically IMO.

i think we need to be very careful about universalizing our experiences, and saying "we know" how things are somewhere else in the country.'

'if i know american racism, say, what makes me think i can go down to south africa and tell them what to do? sexism in the us, isn't the same as it is in the third world. they are contexual.'

And ditto to this as well. I've visited South Africa and racism there is a whole different animal, as is their public response to the legacy of apartheid. There is a hugely positive agenda in anti-discrimination practices there, but there's still an enormous inbalance, as there would be in a country where racism was essentially sanctioned.

Racism, like a virus, mutated into different forms in the UK, in Ireland, in scandinavia and across the US. That's why discussions like this, which highlight aspects of a particular example of racism for people like me to read about are valuable.
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treehugger
post Sep 28 2007, 04:53 PM
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heh..I was trying to reply and my internet was wonky...and by the time I got back here GT said it so very eloquently I can almost not bring myself to attempt a reply.

Almost.

I have to say, doxy, I can see where you are coming from. I don't live in New Orleans, or Louisiana in general, but I have a friend who lives in Bunkie, Louisiana and I go there once a year...and I've seen the racism there. It's much, much more blatant and pervasive there. We have racism here too, in liberal Madison...so liberal it's considered the Berkeley of the midwest...we have it here but it's much more hidden.

Sooo..what GT said. I can't generalize because I don't live there. I've gotten a little taste of it, and it's ugly. But racism is ugly everywhere...it's just more subtle/hidden here.

And...I also wanted to touch on what GT was saying last night about everybody having some racism in them. I experienced this firsthand. I always thought of myself as the most open-minded person I knew. I still think I am, in my immediate circle of friends.

But.

I was in the market for condos and I was looking at stuff little "big for my britches" (I was mislead on the value of the house I was selling and thought I could afford at least $50,000 more than I could.) I was looking at, for the Midwest, upper scale condos. Rich, nice stuff, in nice neighborhoods. So, my realtor took me to see a FSBO in the BEST neighborhood in this city...a very, very nice place, with granite countertops, maple cabinetry, a beautiful view of the Capitol, etc.

And...we walked in and the seller was a Black man. And I was a bit surprised. Not in a bad way, more of an impressed way. Because this was truly a beautiful condo, it could have been in Metropolitan Home magazine.

But, I realized later, that I was impressed because I had a lesser EXPECTATION of what black men can/can't achieve. So, I'm ashamed of myself for that. I wouldn't have been nearly as impressed if it had been a white man as the owner.

But...(yes, there's a lot of BUTTS in this post)...I am also proud, cause part of evolution is recognizing racism and trying to overcome it. Not to sing my accolades or anything...but I was pretty shamed to realize that I do have some prejudices and some racism...and I thank that guy for making me aware of it. And it's something I'm going to be more aware of in the future.

And, I'm so proud of that guy for having such a beautiful home!


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girltrouble
post Sep 28 2007, 04:39 PM
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meh. i think location is a huge factor. what flies in seattle won't work for a second in other places, and vice versa. i've been in cities where the racsism was palpable, wash, dc. new orleans, st. louis, atlanta. but that is to my seattle living ass. but i know the racsism round here, and in the bay area, and colorado. and local knowledge ALWAYS effects things. all riots in all cities are not the same, there are stories of things that went on locally that feed into the way people act and react. they had an amazing documentary about some riots in new jersey i'd never heard of, but as they counted back the events leading to the riot, it made perfect sense for the peeps in the city to go balistic.

i think we need to be very careful about universalizing our experiences, and saying "we know" how things are somewhere else in the country. that local knowledge that doxy relates gives us a deeper context. do i think that she could have been more diplomatic? sure. but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. in many ways i share her frustration with things i've got to say on the matter being dismissed, as if, someone else knows better, and they've just patted me on the head patrionizingly.

if i know american racism, say, what makes me think i can go down to south africa and tell them what to do? sexism in the us, isn't the same as it is in the third world. they are contexual. with different signifyers and signs. that was one of the lessons of 3rd wave feminism. and i think this lesson applies here.


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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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doxy
post Sep 28 2007, 09:11 AM
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Obviously you do care, and I'm glad you do.
Only posting because I'm so use to the morons out east saying they can't wait 'till California has enough earthquakes to push it out to sea...so it's funny to hear loving sentiments about Louisiana falling into the ocean.
Ah well, I was drunk and too happy to post the good news, a little too imaturely...not from nothing I'm still happy.
Bit you g3, tasted good.
I do apologize for being so bitter and antagonistic (though I'm sure it won't matter as I won't have my apology accepted, sadly) but walking around listening to people's sentiments really brought me down.
Racism is everywhere. Never thought it wasn't, just didn't think anyone posting in this thread knew everything and just heard and read everything instead of living here and breathing it. And I know all about Cincinasty, and think it sucks...though I dig Clifton Proper.
I edited the previous because even though I was an idiot and posted like an idiot, I don't care to have the remaining posts take this direction rather than commenting on the idiot DA Walters. Though I still think I'm an idiot and so should you.
Love you guys and even though I've dropped some "like" points here's to a little justice being served and a great result after a movement of a lot of Americans leaving their towns to come down here and stand up for other fellow Americans.
Mos Def it was fantastic meeting you and I do apologize for not heeding your words (he actually said what brought him down about the march were the people who didn't know how to say what was on their mind without looking like fools...and I quote because for some reason I won't forget it, "...just go home and re-group, if you're not ready to say anything yet, just go home and take a nap..." It was funny to hear him say "nap", probably what I should have done rather post at 4am with some Merlot (don't frown upon my drinking the Merlot, I liked Sideways too, just don't think it's a grape we should give up on yet wink.gif )
Love your lot, Culture and G3, I'm sorry.
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culturehandy
post Sep 28 2007, 07:35 AM
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I do believe that is correct. Thank you fellow member of said "lot"


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girlygirlgag
post Sep 28 2007, 07:31 AM
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I had made references to riots before, so you probably just ASSumed. Typical of our "lot". wink.gif


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culturehandy
post Sep 28 2007, 07:27 AM
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Girly, where in the hell did I get that you were from Los Angeles? Regardless, since we are of the same "lot" I guess I just don't get it.


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girlygirlgag
post Sep 28 2007, 07:23 AM
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I live in Cincinnati. The town where police officers had a propensity to shoot unarmed black men and kill them, thus starting a two day riot, with week long curfews and major heartache for years afterwards. Timothy Thomas.

So, Doxy, I don't care, Louisianna can fall into the ocean, crosses blazing and all (though Ohio and Indiana have the highest population of Klansmen in the country), I won't care because I don't live there.

Me and my "lot" will just leave you to your opinions and views. Never will I dare to try to enter into any kind of discourse with you again. Unless, of course, you chime in on situations happening outside of Louisianna, then I will be there to cheerfully remind you that, you don't live there, so you can't possibly have an opinion on the matter.

Hugs and Kisses,

G3 and her "lot".

PS: Bite me.


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culturehandy
post Sep 28 2007, 06:32 AM
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Doxy, I'm curious if you are suggesting that none of us seem to know about the issues of tensions between people of different races simply beacuse we don't live in close proximity to you?

And what exactly do you mean by "our lot"?

I can tell you that racial tensions are not something which is confined to a certain geographic area. In fact, I invite you to come and talk a little walk through what is considered the "core area" of this city, then you will see first hand the issue of race and some racial tension which exists in this city as well as any city on the planet. If you seem to think that racial tension is confined to the deep south and Lousianna, that's a rather skewed outlook. Should I start to list off historical incidences in which issues of race turned violent or would that even be relevant because I didn't live there? you don't need to live in a certain area to understand the issues of racial tension, racism, bigotry, social and judicial injustice, because it happens everywhere.

Further, my understanding is that Girlygirlgag lives in Los Angeles. Two words; Rodney King.


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Hatred does not cease in this world by hating, but by not hating; this is an eternal truth. --- Buddah, The Dhammapada
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doxy
post Sep 28 2007, 02:46 AM
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GirlyGag, you don't live here cool.gif .

And so the the bell has tolled...Michael Bell will be tried as a juvenile thus won't have his life written away by the stroke of a pen.
For those of you who want facts so much: the lead witness, Jessica Hooter, doesn't remember agreeing Michael Bell swung first...because in fact Shaw swung first and someone said Barker was knocked out upon impact. There is only one of the ten, and then four, witnesses that can name the attackers above 3 persons. Which is why I said six was ridiculous. Not because I wanted to say it was "more fair" being 3-1 rather than 6-1, just that the story stunk. (not from nothing...if 6 people wanted to kill someone, they'd do it. That's just from me to you, and so attempted murder was ridiculous from go...and the reason for the march on Jena)
While the trial was going on the Barker family had dinner with the original ten witnesses. Some like to call it "memory enhancing." Me? Well no one asked but I call it bullshit.
The highschool coach was never called to the stand and he had the most credible testimonies. Look it up (if any of you still actually care about justice) his name is Beny Lewis. Will be the first to say bystanders stepped on Barker, because they were scared and didn't know what was happening...which is also a reason to suspend the 6 (or three of the six, if you asked me, for starting a riot)
The Jena school gets kids from other schools every year. There are two junior high schools that unload into Jena highschools and they are all white...the kids who hung the nooses were from these schools and thought they had a "backing" to pull the noose incident. (when actually if you think about it, they did have said backing)
How come no one else is talking about any of this?
Nevermind, just wondering if anyone else is grinning about the thought of that ink-pen up DA Reed Walter's ass?

In ending I have a couple more quotes from Grand Wizzard Reed Walters-
"The only way - let me stress that - the only way that I believe that me or this community has been able to endure the trauma that has been thrust upon us is through the prayers of the Christian people who have sent them up in this community," Reed Walters.
(the trauma thrust upon him and Jena is what he refers to as the predominantly black march on Jena this past weekend--side note: my roommies and friends were there, hee hee)
""I firmly believe and am confident of the fact that had it not been for the direct intervention of the Lord Jesus Christ last Thursday, a disaster would have happened. You can quote me on that." Reed Walters
(what Walters means by this is divine intervention was the sole reason all those black people responded respectively while walking about that Jena town)
Gotta ask...are there still any questions?

I say it from Jackson Avenue of the pretty-good city of New Orleans this Buster is sipping the grape juice and happy as all-get-out!
But have to offer this one little deterance from the joy I feel--it's 2007 and we're still fighting.

Tank, it was childish because I read it the wrong way and jumped. I apologize. For the rest of you loving busties...hey, what can I say? Other than I live here and was always going to post about it the way I did. Re-read my posts if you still think there's a gripe to be had, message me about your problem. Sure, I wasn't as bust as I should have been in some parts of sentences, and it may have seemed off the societal norms in other parts of the sentences...but then again I live here and if it weren't for me then who was going to post about it? Think of it as me giving everyone some fun with my antagonistic low-class banter cool.gif

Not from nothing...thank you, Al Sharpton.
You're a modern day Alice Paul and Lucy Burns, I love you.
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pepper
post Sep 28 2007, 01:40 AM
Post #16







anybody going to watch the two families talk to dr phil about it today? i'm on the road so i may miss it but i hope to catch it if possible. from the horse's mouth... or jack ass's mouth as the case may be.
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tankgirl
post Sep 27 2007, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE(doxy @ Sep 24 2007, 11:37 PM) *
My problem is that you say there will be these injustices in the "world" only we're talking USA. Not that it should matter, but unfortunately it does...and for the same sentiments you posted on...which make me sick.

They kicked the kid's ass, fine. The reality is they don't even belong in juvie, just kicked out of the school...but they're in jail.
How many of you have ever been in jail?

The sad reality of the sad reality of your post, tank, is that we don't give a shit about the sad reality.
I'm fucking tired of it. But I don't want my family to write me in jail, but inevitably it seems the only way, I'm that fucking tired of it.
Tank, no offense but sentiments like what you posted are a cop-out.



way to be rude man, i was saying that this makes me sick. if you think thats sad to each his own i guess. racial injustice makes me sick and im not afraid to say it and i mean world. sure this is happening in the us but racial hatred is WORLDWIDE. go ahead and try and deny it i dare you. i was talking in a general sence, not specifically. why? because what you posted seems very one sided, and i dont know the whole story. im not going to form a strong opinion on something by only hearing one side of the story, ever. racist people make me sick, bigots make me sick and sexist people make me sick, as a whole as a general rule, not just in this specific location. that is what i was saying, but to put me down for having that opinion is very very childish.
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girltrouble
post Sep 27 2007, 05:40 PM
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pugs:

i should also mention, in your post you quote doxy quoting you, and i must correct an error in your reading of the gun situation in jena. the gun situation happened BEFORE the incedent that had the jena 6 charged. it was a one on one situation, where barker verbally harrased a black kid who had been assaulted earler. when the black kid refused to take barker's shit, and pushed barker back, barker went to his care, got a gun and threatened the black kid. the black kid took the gun away, taking the gun with him. the police officer who was called to the scene dismissed barker, but charged the black youth with theft, or some such.

the reason that i find this story so crucial, is that it goes to the UNEQUAL treatment of blacks in jena, and the reason why the jena six is a ralling point for black people. it's not that we condone the jena 6' act, we just want justice to be FAIR, EQUAL AND EVEN for whites and blacks.



oh, and mr.pugs...?


DOOD: YOU ARE A RACIST.

now before you go off in a huff, hear me out....

we all are. i am, you are, the priest at the corner church is. really, i don't care if you are married to a black woman, or you ARE a black woman. you're a racist. just as inspite of my being a male-to-female transexual, living as a female for more than 10 years-- i still have some sexism-- that i need to expunge. and' i'll work on that till the day i die, but i don't delude myself into thinking, i'm not still sexist. by the some token, you're a racist. as are your parents. please don't get all offended cos someone might call you on a racist point of view you might have. because it's not an insult. it's an opportunity for you to learn, for you to rise to the occasion. for you to grow into a slightly better mr. pugs. just as my friends call me on my sexism so i can be a slightly better gt. and incase you were wondering. i've had black friends point out that i've internalized some racism about black folk too. so if i, the trifecta of minority-ness, being a black transexual dyke, can be an occasional sexist, racist, queerphobe, how can you somehow be free of sin? you can't. we all swim in this rotten hateful sewer of american culture. but what we can do is try to grow a little, so that on the day we die, we are better versions of ourselves than were around the day before.

being a white male, your life and experiences have given you a view of the way the world works. can i suggest that that view works because you are a white male? it would not work if you were black, female, asian, or even visually handycapped. the way you have been treated, and how you perceive that treatment, the way you move thru the world are your "baseline." your view of what normal is. you assume that everyone is treated roughly as you are. this is not true. any one of those or any number of groups would get treated very differently based on the social perception in our culture (if you want to add another layer you can add class, but for simplicity's sake, i'll not).

i was listening to angela davis talking, and she ponted out that just because the visual cues of racism are gone, it doesn't mean that the racism is, but because of how we got rid of those visual cues, we have come to believe (wrongly), that the way to get rid of racism is to pretend it doesn't exist, dispite the FACT that the ACTIONS of racism still exist in abundance. racism isn't just nooses hanging from trees, it's opportunities denied, in housing, in occupations, in promotion. it's exclusion from social circles. it's denial of loans. it's house's value being appraised lower, because there is a picture of black folk on a desk. it's my communities being targeted for industrial dumping, because city governments all over this country value their lives less than. it's neighborhoods even here in yankee seattle divided by black businesses (and consumers) on one side of the street, white on the other. its road and electrical repairs being done in the north more quickly than in the south, because the black folk live in the south part of town. it's jacked up re-fi loans offered to black people at a higher rate, and those same black folk losing their houses at a greater rates. it's the way that people in the media infer the recipients of those loans were some how less fit to own homes. it's that banks are less willing to loan black folk money for houses, business, or anything else irregardless of credit history.

in other words: it's this american culture, and so many things that are invisable to you, because you never have to deal with these and other barriers, because you are a white male. and because you are a white male, there is not the social weight, social history, social signifigance of ANY words*, let alone, whitey, honky, wop, or cracker, that will give you an understanding of what the word nigger means when heard by a black ear. you will never know, or feel that pain, that goes thru not just my mind, but thru my bounes and back generations. you will never know the chill that the sight of a noose hung in hatred feels like in your veins. indeed, i am still revolted by the article that GGG posted, suggesting that black teens could be so ignorant of the nooses' implication that he believed they would play with them, as if they had no more significance than a jump rope. the simple assertion makes my blood boil.

but, don't give up. like patrice rushen said, "giving up is giving up."

*that said, calling a white person a racist does give them some measure of pause, for some odd reason wink.gif



*************


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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve
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culturehandy
post Sep 27 2007, 05:16 PM
Post #19


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I think people are afraid because of the media portrays race. In Canadian news, often times it's portrayed as some scary aboriginal male who's going to jump you in a dark alley. I am sure that it's the same in American news, but with black men.

I can tell you I'm much more weary of white jock, athletic type men then of an aboriginal man.


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Mr Pugs
post Sep 27 2007, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE(doxy @ Sep 27 2007, 12:24 PM) *
"3 black guys "exchange words" with one white guy, who then proceeds to get his gun from his truck. Instead of backing down, they take the gun from him and go home with it. To me it sounds like the white guy was scared of getting jumped, and pulled the gun for protection."
But then--weren't you always going to see it that way?


That last line got me...I read it as implying that I'm racist. I tried to have a clean talk about Jena and I get called a racist for my troubles. I talked to my mom about this and asked her if she thought I was racist and she told me when I first went to grade school and learned about black history month, I asked her why is there a black history month and nobody else gets one? My parents are the least racist people I know. After she told me of that story (I was too young to even remember that) she told me that I was always questioning the world and searching for my own answers. She then told me that if I have become racist, it's because we live in a racist world.

Reflecting upon that, I'm not sure I'm going to post about this anymore no matter what my beliefs are, because nothing will change. All sides are too stubborn and unwilling to compromise to rectify things. I'm not just talking about Jena, but racism in it's entirety. I believe that there is hate inside all of us, and it is easier to be hateful than be loving. There will always be racism, and god willing, if racism ends, people will hate each other for something else. I like to be a positive, kind person. That thought just pisses on my mental wheaties.

Mr. Pugs
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