maggie....

thanks for answering all these questions i have for you...you're so awesome hunnie! but i have one more... . did you have sex while doing the "phase out" (boric acid 2 times a week). if you did...did you use anything afterwards like tea tree oil? thanks again so much hun. just seeing what kind of things ladies did while beating this bv battle...

sooo sad

Hi, hon! Nope--we abstained until I was sure I was really better. Thar would've been when I was doing the estrogen cream & the Sylk on alternating days (which I still keep up with, religiously!) We used condoms at that point, because I was no longer on the Pill, but not yet fully into menopause. I use SYLK lubricant before, during & after intercourse. That seems most soothing and, at the same time, the pH is acidic enough to help prevent BV or most yeast infections.

I read somewhere (but can't get my hands on the link) that once a woman is post-menopausal (no period for over a year or more), most of the good vaginal bacteria dies off (unless estrogen is used). But this isn't a problem, because the strains of bacteria responsible for BV also die out in there. I asked my gynecologist if that was true--he said "it must be-- I've never treated an older woman for BV!" So we have THAT to look forward to at least!!

Hugs,
Maggie

hi carrie.....
i'm fairly new and just wondering if you have to do maintanence or do something after your period or sex. i'm so happy for ya that you're bv free...hopefully i can be too. i'm currently taking fem d ..(thanks to lori's suggestion!!) i've had this bv for 10months and i'm afraid it would come back again after i take flagyl. i wish i could be like lori and not do nothing but i'm too scared to not "maintain"
thanks...sooo sad

Maggie,

Sorry to put you on the spot, but I want to add a note to what I think is a misconception.

I don't think simply putting acidic solutions in the vagina does anything to "prevent" BV. Since the issue is a bacterial imbalance, I think the high-pH of the discharge is just a symptom. I also don't believe that normal high-pH events (such as unprotected sex or getting your period) triggers BV, they simply trigger symptoms.

So I think simply working on acidifying the vagina is not the correct approach. I think this is why a product like RepHresh or boric acid doesn't work - for either treatment or prevention. At best, using Sylk probably doesn't hurt. But I think it's misleading to say that it prevents BV.


I think this is another misconception. Vaginitis caused by hormonal imbalance is a completely different issue, and the treatment for it is different as well. We shouldn't conflate these categories.

And lastly, to the pregnant lady who thought pregnancy would clear up the BV because it cleared up her HPV in the past? Sorry to be be all gloom-and-doom, but there's all sorts of things in the news about how BV may cause pregnancy complications, including pre-term birth. On the bright side, not everyone is so sure about that, but either way, it's good to be cautious. I don't think this is a cause for alarm, but just make sure that your doctor is on board, and knows exactly what's going on.

[quote name='lori' date='Apr 12 2008, 01:14 PM' post='194998']
Maggie,

Sorry to put you on the spot, but I want to add a note to what I think is a misconception.

I don't think simply putting acidic solutions in the vagina does anything to "prevent" BV. Since the issue is a bacterial imbalance, I think the high-pH of the discharge is just a symptom. [quote]

Hi, Lori: I just go by what I read, by what my gynecologist told me, and by my education as a chemistry prof. For example, from the Merck Manual Web site, I submit the following:

<<In women, anything that reduces the acidity (increases the pH) of the vagina increases the likelihood of infection. Acidity may be reduced by hormonal changes shortly before and during menstrual periods or during pregnancy. Frequent douching, use of spermicides, and semen can also reduce acidity.

Many bacteria normally reside in the vagina. One type, called lactobacilli, normally maintains the acidity of the vagina. By doing so, lactobacilli help keep the lining of the vagina healthy and prevent the growth of bacteria or yeasts that cause infections.>>

Also, from "The V Book" by Dr. Elizabeth Stewart, director of the Stewart-Forbes Vulvovaginal Specialty Service at Harvard Vanguard Medical Associates:

<<"BV represents an imbalance of the bacteria that live in the vagina. The imbalance occurs because the vagina becomes less acidic, and without the acid it's like party time for the resident bacteria -- they have an orgy and overrun the place."

I am just so glad I found --and am maintaining for over 18 months now--my vaginal health again via boric acid (among other things as mentioned previously) and SYLK.

Respectfully submitted.
Maggie

no offense, but I thought this was a forum for EVERYONE to discuss what does and does not work for them ...individually.... as different as all of our bodies are, there may or may not be methods that work well for each of us. I have read Maggie's postings and she seems excited and happy about what is working for her at this time... this is a tough condition to deal with, why can't we support each other instead of telling people basically, no, what you are doing does not work. Not trying to start a war here, honestly.

I don't think that disproves what I've said. I understand that it's the good bacteria that maintains the acidity of the vagina. I just think that the treatment should focus on increasing the good bacteria, rather than trying to manually acidify the vagina. It's definitely not a solution by itself.


As you know, I cite The V Book a lot myself, and consider it to be a very reputable source. The vagina becomes less acidic - and the bad bacteria takes over - because the good bacteria goes down in number. This is information I got from The V Book itself. Do you disagree with that?

I don't believe that it says in the book anywhere that acid alone will cure/prevent BV. If that was the case, we should all be able to make BV go away by squirting vinegar up there every day.


But your problem wasn't BV. As you said yourself, it was a persistent yeast infection (which boric acid *is* a known cure for).

Some ladies in here have found boric acid to relieve their BV symptoms, but no one so far has found it to be a cure. I've done research on boric acid and BV, and have yet to find anything that supports its use for BV.

I agree that if anyone needs a lubricant, using one with the right pH is probably a better idea than using one that isn't. But I don't agree that SYLK, used like a treatment product as you suggest, can prevent BV. There is just no support for it. Can you provide any beyond anecdotal evidence?

OMG! WTF? U are too funny! LMAO@ FLOATING PENISES------->PRICELESS!

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

I'm sorry to be such a killjoy, but as I explained recently, this thread, from its inception, is a long, sad chronicle of "bad product pussy explosions." Ladies getting excited about some crackpot product (jamu stick!), everyone shoving it up their bajingos, and everyone suffering from burns a week later. Not to mention the time and money wasted. It's practically tragic.

And not to toot my own horn, but I think more ladies have felt better and improved their health by reading my blog and following my suggestions, than they have in the history of the thread. And did that happen because I have some spectacular secret treatment? No. I just urge people to make informed decisions. I think people tend to kind of "jump on the bandwagon" in here, without fully knowing why or how something supposedly works.

So I don't think clearing up obvious misconceptions amounts to "not being supportive." My latest points are:

- manually acidifying the vagina alone does not accomplish cure/prevention
- hormonal-related vaginitis is not BV
- BV may cause potential pregnancy complications

Is sharing these facts a bad thing? I don't think so. I think everyone needs to know this. It's up to them what they do with the information. Do I have credibility? Does what I say make sense? It's up to every individual to make that judgment themselves. Just make the most informed judgment you can about what treatment to use.

And I'm also not saying people can't share what works for them. I'm just challenging everyone to back it up with some research. If you have a problem with that, then you know ... whatever. But I think I've contributed a lot to keeping people from setting their vaginas on fire. I may have stepped on a few toes along the way, but if you've been reading in this group since 3/2007, then you should know that I don't care about that.

Bottom line: if I think somebody is saying something that is wrong or misleading, and may lead to false hope and bad potentially harmful decisions, then I will speak up. I'm sorry I don't do that with hugs and kisses and tippy toes. People can digest the conflicting information and make their decision, or they can call me a cunt. Whatever. As long as the information is out there, that's all I care about.

--

*So again, to Maggie: I think when you say that SYLK is a BV preventative, and also when you say that it's the only lubricant with the right pH, you are being misleading. (For example, The V Book recommends Replens, and I think RePhresh even claims to lower your pH to a healthy level.) I think it's great that SYLK works for you. But obviously women will be ordering it because of what you said, expecting some great results, and being disappointed, because you are making claims about the product without support.

So I'm going to speak out about that. I'm sorry if that makes you unhappy. I don't have personal animosity towards you, and I think you're a valuable contributor to this thread. But I think you are making unsupported claims about a product, so ... yeah, well, there you go. I don't think you should do that. I just don't think applying SYLK (or any acidic solution) prevents BV. Feel free to prove me wrong anytime. (Come on, girl, you're a chemistry professor!)

Yes, my problem was repeated episodes of BV interspersed with non-Albicans yeast infections. It was the latter that caused the BURNING, which was what I was asked about. My gynecologists (two of them in fact) suggested that to stop the cycle, boric acid was the way to go. Since using it, and, granted, several other things like Estrace cream, SYLK, Fem-Dophilus and tea tree oil suppositories, I have never experienced either BV or yeast infections in over 18 months. But boric acid was the initial and main treatment that got me on the road to health.

If you don't like boric acid or the acidifying-the-vagina methodology, that is entirely your right, as it is mine (and my gynecologists') to advocate it.

Peace out.
Maggie

wow...actually as a matter of fact , I HAVE been reading this post since last year and I do remember the back and forth...it got quite ugly...so as I do not choose to get into another condescending match with anyone, I will just keep my comments to my self and wish you all the absolute best in overcoming this condition. Peace...

So basically, you don't know if boric acid contributed to curing your BV at all.

I think you should make that very clear - which is the only point I was ever making. You've conflated BV and yeast, and obviously, it's led to confusion.


If you're going to "advocate" a treatment, I think you should have very good reasons for why you are urging people to use your methods, beyond merely suggesting it. And I, or anyone, can ask about the research behind your methods. You don't have to provide the research, but I can ask you about it.

And I explained my reasons for objecting to your claiming Sylk works as a preventative, for which there is no basis. Obviously some women are thinking of buying it based on your recommendation, and I think you've led them to expect more from it than they will get. Again, I think it's my right to ask you why you said that.

You don't have to answer (and you apparently won't), but I can still ask.

For the record, I just want to say that I NEVER engaged in the ugliness. I never called anyone names or picked fights with anyone. When things got out of hand, I just removed myself from the situation.

I think some people get a little too invested in what works for them, and take offense when others question it. If your method really works, it will stand up to scrutiny. I'm not here to knock anyone's ideas, I just think it should be backed up with research.

hi sprinkles...
thanks for your welcome...hopefully we all can help each other overcome this darn thing!!!
sooo sad

(sorry I'm late responding!)

Thanks Maggie!

After reading this, I'm inspired to give the boric acid a try. You put it exactly how I feel. Putting something named "acid" into something on fire makes me want to run. I ordered FemDophilus, and looking forward to giving this a try. I'm starting to believe that I too must have a yeast that will not respond to anything allopathic or natural I have tried. I'm sort of hoping this might be my magic bullet, yet I'm cautious about being hopeful when all else has failed. When I look in the cabinet, with all of the things I have bought I should open my own pharmacy lol.

Thank you very much!

Who said anything about Boric Acid being a cure. And who said Sylk lubricant was a cure? I know I didn't, and I'm sure no one else here did either. I am a proponent of Femdophilus, I think it is the best probiotic for women out there yet, and I think it is a cure if taken properly and with the correct combination of other precautions taken at the same time; but it is not a cure for everyone, because if it was, we wouldn't be sitting here talking to each other about BV. Some of us have taken Femdophilus for months and still have bv. I believe that it is part of the equation, probably the most important part, but like many illnesses, a combination of things may have to be done at the same time to bring the body back into equilibrium first - so that the Reuteri and Rhamnosus can thrive and do their job. So in my opinion, a few things that must be done at the same time:

correct the vaginal ph (make it slightly more acidic)
eliminate the pathogenic bacteria in your vagina
eliminate the pathogenic bacteria residing in your intestinal tract
introduce the correct bacteria into your vagina (femdophilus)
maintain normal vaginal moisture levels
use a (slightly acidic) lubricant during sex if you have dryness issues

Millions of women get BV worldwide, and believe that it was one thing or one occurance that gave it to them.. but I believe that that one thing was just the last straw. I will guess that it was a combination of factors that gave them the infection. And if it was a combination of things that set the stage to give you an infection, is it so unreasonable to think that maybe a combination of things may have to be done to get it back to normal health?

It may be a different issue in your opinion, but the end result is still BV - with the bv smell and discharge. And my doctor still tested me and gave me a bv diagnosis. I am not trying to say that all women with bv have hormonal issues, but there is a link there for some of us.

Hi everyone again,
I think I need to expand on what I was mentioning earlier, that hormonal issues sometimes can lead to BV. I know not all of us have hormonal imbalances, but it is quite common for many women to get bv from some sort of hormonal imbalance.

Lori does bring up a good point, that for women that have hormonal issues, this would have to be treated. And some women have. They have corrected their hormonal imbalance by improving their diet, perhaps eliminating stress, etc. etc. Or using the Nuvaring, or estrogen cream, or a combination or estrogen and progesterone cream or other hormone therapy. Or you can choose not to. Some women do not agree with hormone (replacement) therapy. And this is of course your choice to make.

After listening to everyone here and also reading about BV I notice that: some women get bv when they go on or off the birth control pill. Some get bv due to hormonal fluctuations due to onset or end of pregnancy. Some get bv from hormonal imbalance caused by the onset of menopause. These are hormonal triggers. Many times hormonal drop-offs cause a woman's natural cervical and vaginal secretions to diminish. As well, as you get older many women's skin gets dryer and thinner. That includes all skin.. even the skin in the vaginal canal. With thinning skin and dryer skin come the problem of thinner mucosal membranes which make it harder to support microbial growth of Lactic Acid Bacteria. Also LAB bacteria require certain nutrients from your vaginal skin and vaginal mucosal membrane in order to live. So if the skin gets thinner there, problems arise. As well, if there is too much friction there because of sex (from rough sex, or from unlubricated sex), and the skin is traumatized, there will be problems. Because the 'food source' is eliminated, and the colonization of good bacteria on the skin is compromised or rubbed off. If the epithelial cells are damaged or removed from friction or hormonal changes, the beneficial bacteria won't have anything to feed on. The epithelial cells provide the glycogen food source.

And for most of us it is a combination of things that set the stage for BV.. for me it was hormonal fluctuation from stress and thyroid issues, plus the fact that I used a douche numerous times consecutively, and having sex with my boyfriend (with him not pulling out), therefore extended duration ph changes.

[ ...(bacteria) colonizes the vagina because glycogen is produced which provides the bacteria with a source of sugar that they ferment to lactic acid.

During reproductive life, from puberty to menopause, the vaginal epithelium contains glycogen due to the actions of circulating estrogens. Doderlein's bacillus predominates, being able to metabolize the glycogen to lactic acid. The lactic acid and other products of metabolism inhibit colonization by all except this lactobacillus and a select number of lactic acid bacteria. The resulting low pH of the vaginal epithelium prevents establishment by most other bacteria as well as the potentially-pathogenic yeast, Candida albicans. This is a striking example of the protective effect of the normal bacterial flora for their human host.

http://www.bact.wisc.edu/themicrobialworld/NormalFlora.html ]

Maggie said that boric acid put her "on the road to health" regarding her BV "interspersed" with yeast. I don't think she made that clear enough, so that readers would understand that the boric acid didn't cure her BV.


I never said anyone claimed Sylk was a cure.

What you've described is called "atrophic vaginitis." It's not BV caused by a hormonal imbalance, it's just another type of vaginitis. CanCan, I'm not saying YOU didn't have BV triggered by your hormones. But what you've described isn't BV at all.

I think this distinction needs to be made. I think there are too many women in here who self-diagnose a hormonal imbalance, and even self-treat, and others who jump on the bandwagon, thinking, "gosh, maybe I have a hormone problem too."

I think if anyone suspects a hormone problem, they should be examined by an endocrinologist.

I think it's useful to discuss hormonal imbalance, just for knowledge's sake, but it's really a different topic altogether. I think we should at least make a distinction.

I just want to share what triggered *my* BV/YEAST hell. It all began after I started using natural progesterone cream to manage peri-menopausal issues. After about 5 months of the cream, my yeast and bv troubles began.

I went to an ND in Berkeley, Ca. and a chinese herbalist who both told me that the hormonal changes happened either by going into peri-menopause OR by using the cream. (I am speaking for myself here, not all women who use natural progesterone cream) Either way, I can say for *me* the cause was hormonal changes.

I stopped using the cream, but that has not solved the problem. This is a comprehensive list of things I have tried since 2006:

Food - elimination diet - all sugar, processed, yeast, dairy, nuts, soy
Acidophils/lacto - by mouth, douche, suppository
Acidophilus Milk
Pau d' arco - by tea, tincture, douche
Goldenseal - tea, tincture, douche
Echinacea - tea, capsule, tincture
Tea Tree Oil - suppository, sitz bath, washes
Enzara
Hydrogen Peroxide - washes, douche
Apple Cider Vinegar
Vinegar douches, sitz bath
Standing in the Ocean
Standing in a pool
Liver flushes
Betadine - douche
Monistat
Nystatin - vaginal tablets, oral tablets, cream, douche
Terconazole
Oil of Oregano - diluted with olive oil
Vitamins and Minerals including Folic Acid, vitamin C - by mouth or as a suppository
Digestive Enzymes
Omega fatty 3 acids - still on
Water cure
Colloidal Silver
Candigen
Yeast Guard
Homeopathies - Pulsatilla, Phos
Boiron - Yeast Away
AZO Yeast
Cranberry supplements
Plain Yogurt - eating, tampon, douche - still eat plain yogurt
Baking Soda - by mouth, douche
Garlic - capsuled, clove, douche with powder
Flagyl - endless rounds
Tindamax
Zithromax
Cipro
Keflex
Erythromycin
Diflucan
Amphotericin
Cleocin
Clindamycin
Doxycycline
Clindesse
Paxil - because at one point one doctor said it was all in my head
Blood tests - CBC, sed rate, thyroid panel, yeast, liver function/enzymes
Numerous pelvic exams/tests


Now I'm pretty sure there are a few things I'm missing. But this is about everything I have tried and everything that has failed for me. That doesn't mean it may not be someone else's magic bullet. I'm not here to argue or pick apart what one person claims or what another is posting about. I'm searching for anything I can utilize that could possibly help me. I'm so tired of suffering and struggling each day in my life with my vagina burning every day all day. I can't play with my child as I used to. Can't be intimate with my husband. Can't stand to sit long, walk too long, go shopping, to a movie, dinner... BV and yeast is stealing the quality of my life and I'm going to fight like hell and try everything to get it back. Even if I did try something that doesn't work. I can say, I tried it, and cross it off the list. I want people like Maggie to be heard as well as Lori. We all have something to share. I'm a grown woman and I can pretty much sniff out the get well quick schemes.

If anything has been learned during this time of suffering, it's that what works for one woman may not work for another. That each has their own body chemistry, has reasons for why something may or may not work. But thank goodness we have a network to communicate the experiences through. Otherwise, I wouldn't be maintaining my sanity. Lord knows, I have cried enough tears.

Now, as far as my first Boric acid capsule goes, it didn't burn after insertion. I was qute afraid though! When I woke, my period had began, but I was not burning, and still am not yet. I have burned during periods when the infection is bad enough before. So a period doesn't always stop my burning.

Maggie, I have a question for you if you don't mind. Did you continue on with the boric acid during periods too? I would like to continue if possible. Thank you!

Peace to everyone.

Once again, it looks like what you're describing, tabby, is "atrophic vaginitis," which can happen to women approaching menopause, and one of its known symptoms is burning, which is not typical of BV.

I'm not trying to diagnose what you have. I'm not your doctor, or you. But what you've described looks like atrophic vaginitis. I think you should make a very clear distinction that you're at an age where hormonal fluctuations are an issue, and also that you suffer from yeast as well.

Looking at your very long list of stuff you've tried and didn't work - it looks like a lot of treatment for BV and yeast, but nothing specific for atrophic vaginitis. Do you think it's possible that you might be focusing on BV/yeast when in fact you might have a different problem?

As I pointed out before, boric acid IS a known cure for certain yeast infections that don't respond to monistat, etc. So this may be the answer for you, and it made Maggie feel better. But obviously some women in here aren't clear about all your issues, so they've come to think boric acid is the answer for their BV. This kind of confusion needs to be cleared up.

Women of any age can experience hormonal issues, because of birth control, childbirth, and many other reasons. But the potential hormonal problems have been lumped together as a general possible cause, and that needs to stop. Because it really is an entirely different category, with an entirely different set of treatments.


History of this thread will indicate that not every one can.

And it's not even just about get-well-quick schemes for me, but potential injury. Not that Sylk lubricant is in that category, but if you read this entire thread like I have, you'll know that it's been an issue in the past.


I agree with that. That is why I think before advocating a course of treatment, we should provide good explanations and research for why we've chosen it, so each reader can make an informed decision about whether it's an appropriate option for them.

ok, its been about a week since i took the flagyl and so far so good - i THINK. i am driving myself nuts with checking and sniffing...I am just afraid I'm going to wake up the next day and it will be back. Before I had this thing with BV, I never obsessed so to speak over my discharge. so I am not sure if what I am smelling is normal or not. It is not an overpowering smell, but if I smell it enough I start to think it smells like BV again. I dont mean to get too graphic but if I stick a finger up there and take it out, there is discharge on it, although not all white or gooey or anything. is that normal?? its been so long since i've been normal down there, i'm not so sure anymore

hi all
GREAT!!!! well the past week I have been obsessively smelling and checking myself and just now, after i made the last post, I checked and there was all this white stuff coming out. there is not much of an odor....the consistency is thick, like of an ointment. is that normal?? like are you able to see normal discharge coming out or shouldn't you?? if it helps I am on the first week of BC pills after my period. I know discharge can be different at different points during your cycle. ??

when i got on the computer a few minutes ago i had all these things i wanted to say and so many funnies and the changes that i have gone through the last few days, but after reading the posts from the last day i am only annoyed. i used to like coming here and reading this stuff. but recently all these posts have been putting me in a bad mood. all this back and forth bull shit. some people on this board are annoying. can i get a HEARD!! maybe if i'm lucky i will even get quoted... i can't wait.

No. I was not dx with atrophic vaginitis. The exams I have/had ruled this out. As did the blood work and saliva testing for hormone imbalance. With my burning, I have been tested multiple times and came up positive on yeast and bv. Sometimes, just yeast.



Nope! I have had enough exams to rule out what the problem is, otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time on a BV forum!



I'm not sure what is confusing about me in particular. I'm a 40 yo old woman, entering peri-menopause, not menopause. And I listed all of the things I have tried, including the allopathic treatments and testing I have had. I have been dx with bv and yeast. I never said that boric acid is the solution to everyone's problems here, nor will I. And I'm sorry I must disagree, after speaking with an ND, Herbalist, and GYN, boric acid can be quite effective in treating bv and yeast for many women. And that is what I have gathered from my personal battle with this. I just happened to come back here and saw it worked for Maggie, and thought what the heck, I'll give it a go.



Hormonal imbalance IS a contributor, but not in every case. The plural of antedote is not data. Now in my case, it is hormonal. I have ruled that out for myself. For someone else, it may not be. I certainly never stated that EVERYONE is suffering from yeast and bv due to hormonal problems.



Oh believe me. I have read the thread and posted here before! I know I have seen women try everything, but that is their personal choice eh? I have had the misfortune of something not working for me, ie: hydrogen peroxide set my vagina on fire. But I didn't blame anyone else because *I* chose to try it. I realize you want to help others, but by telling someone like Maggie or me that our experiences are not reverant, or purport *my* problem isn't what it is, I tend to take offense to that Lori. I have been suffering for YEARS and, frankly you do not know my body any more than I know yours or anyone elses here. I respect the fact that you have done your research, and appreciate anyone's input, but please do not tell me that I don't have bv or yeast, when I have been dx with it. Thank you.




That's exactly what I have done albeit, not scientific information regarding my own body. I'll make it simple by jotting down what works, or doesn't work for *me*. I cannot be bothered to tell any other woman what they shouldn't try though. That is up to them.

I'm going to leave the board and find another place to discuss this. I'm not feeling very comfortable here anymore.

Before I exit the board, I don't want to leave what I have tried, open -ended.

On the 2nd boric acid, I experienced a cooling sensation coupled with a slight burning sensation that went away. I have read that many women experience a burning sensation upon using boric acid before it actually begins to work. I'm not experiencing any burning right now. I'm going to see the treatment through for a full 10 days. Stop, and re-assess how I'm feeling physically. If anyone is interested in contacting me please email me! Tristessaruby@yahoo.com

Peace!

Thanks for recognizing that I do want to help. And just like with each of our own vagina-care, you have your methods for helping ... and I have mine, I guess?


I don't know what you have at all, and I said that very clearly.

However, what you've DESCRIBED, is text-book atrophic vaginitis.

Hi there -- when I had full blown BV, my main and most noticeable symptom was thick, gooey, white discharge. I feel for you honey. I totally know what you mean about obsessively smelling yourself -- I do the same thing....

but ya know, it does take a long time for me to get back to normal after taking the flagyl.....even after the course is over.....

I hope you feel better soon.

i'll quote you! i agree! some of this stuff you just have to laugh at though. good luck to everyone!!

hi Lori and Carriebradshaw!

was wondering....after your treatment (while taking fem d, of course) how long did you wait to have sex again? it's been 10 months and it's pretty bad when you can't even have sex with your boyfriend!!! a little update on me...gonna start flagyl today, been taking fem d for about over a week. discharge is less and i haven't worn a pantyliner since day 2 of fem d. CAN'T BELIEVE IT...i always had to wear one. i hope this is the way to go. i'm keeping my fingers crossed...

sooo sad

hi mg86...

are you taking fem d while you're taking flagyl? if you are you should take it after also...it puts the good bacteria back into the vagina...it might make your discharge less. just a suggestion . hopefully we can beat this thing and help other ladies in this forum... good luck to you.... and me too!!!

sooo sad

sooo sad and carrie -

thanks for your replies. Carrie - I know you are taking FemD, how many do you take a day, one or 2? I would really prefer to take one a day because it gets expensive. Should you be able to see normal discharge coming out though, or no? I think what I saw last night may have been normal. It didn't have a strong odor and I read somewhere that thick white discharge is common at the beginning and end of your cycle. Actually after doing a lot of research last night I started to question if I had a yeast infection, not BV. there is no fishy odor...but then again the itching is minimal. I was tempted last night to run up and buy one of those ph test kits...but I figured I'd hold off a few more days.

I too am getting kind of irritated with the tone this board is taking, but, I just try to ignore it. Thanks again soo sad and carrie!:)

hi again mg86...

you're very welcome. if you think that you might have yeast instead of bv you should go to the dr and get it check out. my dr keep treating me for yeast for 4-5 months and never did test, just treated me and came to find out i never had yeast and i was taking all kinds of meds and putting all kinds of creams in my vagina. my opinion, it's better to have a diagnosis so you know what you have. my dr does a "affirm" test...it checks for bv, yeast, and trich...all in one test!

btw, how long have you had bv or yeast?

sooo sad

hey again!

I haven't been to the doctor in almost a year, but I have been diagnosed more than once with BV. Sometimes though he would say it looked like a yeast infection, but it never tested for one. Actually, when this first happened I thought it was a yeast infection (I think my BV was brought on by a long course of antibiotics). I took Diflucan a few times and did some Monistat as well. When it never went away and even got worse, this is when I went to the doctor and was diagnosed with BV.

I have had this problem (whatever it is, LOL) for a little over a year and a half. I am not sure exactly what caused it. It all started in the spring/summer 2006. I was taking antibiotics for an ear infection, and I got a classic yeast infection. This was my first infection ever. It went away fine, but several months later I got a pap test that came back positive for HPV. It was the cancerous strain so I had to do that thing where they freeze the cells, cryo something or other. Everything was fine for a few months until I got an infection again. I thought it was a yeast infection because I was on antibiotics again, but coincidentally I also had a new sex partner. We were both treated numerous times and both tested for STDs. I am no longer with that person and haven't had sex in 6 months so I am having a hard time narrowing down what the root problem is!!

How about yourself?

Hi Lori, how are you. Yes, atrophic vaginitis, not what I was referring to. But good point, it is a condition women can have, and should read about it just to rule it out. Or in. However you can have it at any age. Of course it is more prevalent as a women get older, when their estrogen levels drop. Or at young ages because your estrogen is lower. But you can also have a case of atrophic vaginitis just by not having sex for a long time! So if you went to see an endocrinologist, he may test you, and find that your levels are fine. A young woman who is celibate, who doesn't have sex for a few years, can have shrinkage or her vaginal walls. And because of this shrinkage can develop infections easier. But once in a longterm sexual relationship again will come back into a healthy zone - vaginally speaking. But until adjusting to her new sexlife, she may be unfortunate enough to suffer from BV, or urinary tract infections!

Getting back to my previous post, I was saying that sometimes for different reasons women can have thinning of the vaginal walls. When this happens, it's easier to get bacterial infections. When women have adequate and healthy colonies of Reuteri and Rhamnosis and other beneficial bacteria in their vagina, their skin is thicker and healthier. And the inverse. If for whatever reason your beneficial bacterial levels drop - whether from hormone changes, rough sex, too much friction, spermicide use, antibiotics, etc. - your vaginal skin will get thinner. And this starts a cascading effect which can lead to a BV recurrence.

I know these pills are expensive, and it sucks, but I spoke to a naturopath, and he told me in the beginning to take two per day. One in the morning at the crack of dawn, an hour or more before eating; and one pill in the evening at least one hour after your dinner, so they have no interference getting down there into your digestive system!

And also, even if you do have a BV infection and a yeast infection at the same time, which can happen - the probiotic is still important to take for both conditions. And just incase you have a yeast infection too.... the best thing and the first thing to do to kill it is to stop eating all forms of sugar. (At least for the short term.) It sucks, but it works. I did that, and I got rid of my yeast infection. Good luck with everything..

I normally take one/day. However, I felt a little off last week and upped it to 2/day. I'm feeling more normal again (might have been pre-period weirdness or something), but I'm still taking 2/day until I'm 100% sure I'm cool. But I took 1/day for a couple months and it worked well.

My discharge changes everyday....it's usually white or clear. Gets thicker and thinner throughout the month. I think the lowest amount of discharge is supposed to be right after your period or right before. Can't remember!!!

It is very hard to tell the difference sometimes.....but I think after a couple episodes of BV, I can tell which is BV and which is normal now. BV is VERY thick and white and gooey for me......

vaginas - can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em!!

Hope this helps!

Ohhhh.....I'm impatient and waited maybe 2 weeks after flagyl..... Probably should have waited longer. It took me awhile to start to be able to really enjoy it again -- ya know, not worry that it's causing an infection, worrying that i already have an infection, yada yada....ick. i'd just say go with your gut as to when your body feels ready. I think your gut sometimes knows more than any doctor does. But, that's just me.

btw, one time after a course of flagyl and diflucan, we tried like my last day of flagyl. BAD IDEA!!! All the meds must have REALLY dried me up or something because I thought I was ready and as soon as we started, I felt some 'ripping' and I started bleeding profusely. So, that set us back another 3 weeks or so. So sad...... So make sure you're either really ready or lubricated....with some Sylk or something....

May I ask - what are you referring to?


So the decrease in good bacteria is what causes --> the thinning of the vaginal skin --> which leads to BV?

That's definitely new. May I ask - where do you get that info?

It's my understanding that:

the decrease in good bacteria is what causes --> BV

As far as I know, BV is about bacterial imbalance. I'm not sure what the thinning of the vaginal skin has to do with it.

I thought that the thinning of the vaginal skin/walls can happen because of estrogen-loss (leading to atrophic vaginitis). I've never heard of the thinning happening because of the decrease in good bacteria. How does that happen? I also don't understand how the thinner walls cause BV.

mg86...

well, i've had this bv for about 10 months. i started femd about a little over a week ago, gonna start flagyl today. hopefully it works...so tired of not having a sex life with my boyfriend. but since the fem d, my discharge is less...but it's still there. i hope we can bet this....actually ALL of us! keep me updated!!

sooo sad

carriebradshaw....

thanks for your advice hun...i will wait then ...but actually i can't wait cause it's been toooo long! i feel like a "bad girl" cause i want to have sex all the time. i guess when you can't have or do something you crave it more....lol!

sooo sad

Hi sad. I think I only waited to have sex until I was done with the flagyl.

Anyway, I think at this point, it's fair to say that most everyone in here who's had the best long-term results have used Fem-d as part of their regimen.

So now, finally, I think it's okay to say, Fem-d is definitely the right product. It's safe (when used as directed!), and looks like it's done more for ladies in here than any other product. (I do wish it was cheaper, though.) I think it is, as close as anything can be, The Answer. (But yes, fingers crossed, still, for everyone.)

I've been very careful, probably too careful, to never shove any theory or method down anyone's throat - all under that hoary theory that we all have different bodies. But I think this is really, just basically, it.

I've been talking about the importance of fem-d and probiotics in here for over a year. It took a lot of fighting to get myself heard. *sigh* I guess it was worth it.

You're telling me! I practically hump my BF's leg during infections/period. It sucks!!! I know what you mean!!! I don't even know how you have gone 10 months!!! That's crazy. I think the longest we ever went was 1 month and it was NOT good for our relationship.

Cheers to s e x!

Good luck. I hope the flagyl + FemD works for you.....it has worked for me.

hey again carriebradshaw...

hahahaha...that's tooo funny!! humping your boyfriend's leg...lol. i hope this works for me too. and yeah...cheers to sex....wild sex! damn! you can tell i haven't had it for a long time...

sooo sad ( and sooo horny!)

hi lori...
thanks for your reply! i do feel alot better with the fem d...just ordered 2 more from iherb, but i don't want to jinx myself!!! tooo early to tell, but again, i haven't felt this good in months. i will keep everyone updated on my condition while and after flagyl...
sooo sad

hey again all!

Well I am sure posting a lot here today

This is probably a stupid question but...soo sad...what do you mean when you say "feel better"..like do you still have discharge, just not as much?

has anyone used those vaginal ph testing kits? if so were the results accurate?

I feel like whatever I have is coming back...even after taking flagyl, femd, no sex or anything. There isn't itching, and no odor that I notice like through my clothes, no discharge on the underwear, but if I wipe the outer area with my finger there is discharge. Its not like gobs and gobs (which I have had before) - but it seems excessive..and not to be gross but I literally smell it obsessively..it does have a slight odor...but like I said last night I never did this before I had BV so maybe it is the normal smell??

I am just frustrated. I thought that the femd and flagyl would knock this thing out (esp since I haven't taken flagyl in so long) - but now I'm not so sure. I don't know what to try next. Like people have been saying boric acid/tto is not a cure, and what I want is to pinpoint this problem and get rid of it.

i am posting a lot too here lately.

this last time i was on flagyl was when i started the femD. To be quite honest, I did not feel 100% completely normal for like a month. The gyno I went to just told me it could take a long time to feel normal again. Sometimes I still don't feel normal. Sounds like a lot of the major symptoms are gone.....

btw, i think we sweat in the outer areas.....maybe that's it? i think we're almost supposed to be a little moist in that general region. what do i know though!