hey again!

I haven't been to the doctor in almost a year, but I have been diagnosed more than once with BV. Sometimes though he would say it looked like a yeast infection, but it never tested for one. Actually, when this first happened I thought it was a yeast infection (I think my BV was brought on by a long course of antibiotics). I took Diflucan a few times and did some Monistat as well. When it never went away and even got worse, this is when I went to the doctor and was diagnosed with BV.

I have had this problem (whatever it is, LOL) for a little over a year and a half. I am not sure exactly what caused it. It all started in the spring/summer 2006. I was taking antibiotics for an ear infection, and I got a classic yeast infection. This was my first infection ever. It went away fine, but several months later I got a pap test that came back positive for HPV. It was the cancerous strain so I had to do that thing where they freeze the cells, cryo something or other. Everything was fine for a few months until I got an infection again. I thought it was a yeast infection because I was on antibiotics again, but coincidentally I also had a new sex partner. We were both treated numerous times and both tested for STDs. I am no longer with that person and haven't had sex in 6 months so I am having a hard time narrowing down what the root problem is!!

How about yourself?

Hey guys! I was wondering who has tried Tinamax and what the outcome was for you? I read that there is like 40% cure rate? thats crazy low and my doctor was adamant about me trying it first....? Today is my second- out of five days and I havent noticed like a difference yet. It leaves a really bad metallic taste in my mouth for a few hours after i take it, its disgusting.

This was my first realy Gyno visit because I just got insurance. Also has anyone ever tried Loestrin 24 fe? It's a free sample of birth control my doctor gave me, I've never used BC before and I'm afraid of the side effects, ive heard alot of bad stories about BC. He also recommended I use rephresh for symptoms, does that work for anyone?

Mela:I have suffered with B.V. for 4yrs. and I think it all started when I got off Birth Control LO/OVRAL.I know how you feel!I have been doing a lot of research this week and I have come up with a conclusion. <BR>Here it is: <BR>Birth control tricks the body into thinking it is pregnant by using higher doses of estrogen.I have never read the paper that came along with the pack of birth control until this week and here is what it states: <BR> Birth control may deplete or interfere with the absorption or function of the nutrient. Taking these nutrients may help replenish them. Folic acid <BR> <BR>Magnesium* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B1* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B12* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B2* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B3* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B6 <BR> <BR>Vitamin C* <BR> <BR>Zinc* <BR>reduction/prevention—Taking these supplements may help reduce the likelihood and/or severity of a potential side effect caused by the medication. Folic acid <BR> <BR>Vitamin B6 <BR> <BR> May be Beneficial: Supportive interaction—Taking these supplements may support or otherwise help your medication work better. Folic acid* <BR> <BR> Avoid: Adverse interaction—Avoid these supplements when taking this medication because taking them together may cause undesirable or dangerous results. St. John’s wort* <BR> <BR>Tobacco <BR> <BR> Check: Other—Before taking any of these supplements or eating any of these foods with your medication, read this article in full for details. Calcium <BR> <BR>Copper <BR> <BR>Iron <BR> <BR>Manganese <BR> <BR>Vitamin A <BR>Interactions common to many, if not all.(WHY WAS I NOT TOLD.) <BR>Interactions with Dietary Supplements <BR>Folic acid <BR>Oral contraceptive (OC) use can cause folic acid depletion.1 In a double-blind trial of OC users with cervical dysplasia, supplementation with very large amounts (10 mg per day) of folic acid improved cervical health.2 Women with cervical dysplasia diagnosed while they are taking OCs should consult a doctor. Mega-folate supplementation should not be attempted without a doctor’s supervision, nor is there any reason to believe that folic acid supplementation would help people with cervical cancer. <BR> <BR>Iron <BR>Menstrual blood loss is typically reduced with use of OCs. This can lead to increased iron stores and, presumably, a decreased need for iron in premenopausal women.3 Premenopausal women taking OCs should have their iron levels monitored and talk with their prescribing doctor before using iron-containing supplements. <BR> <BR>Magnesium <BR>Women using OCs were found to have significantly lower serum magnesium levels in a controlled study.4 In a preliminary study, blood levels of magnesium decreased in women taking an OC containing ethinyl estradiol and levonorgestrel.5 Although the importance of this interaction remains somewhat unclear, supplementation with 250–350 mg of magnesium per day is a safe and reasonable supplemental level for most adults. <BR> <BR>Vitamin B6 <BR>Oral contraceptives have been associated with vitamin B6 depletion and clinical depression. In a small, double-blind study of women with depression taking OCs, vitamin B6 (20 mg twice per day) improved depression.6 Half of the women in the study showed laboratory evidence of vitamin B6 deficiency. <BR> <BR>Other nutrients <BR>A review of literature suggests that women who use OCs may experience decreased vitamin B1, B2, B3, B12, C, and zinc levels.7 8 9 OC use has been associated with increased absorption of calcium and copper and with increased blood levels of copper and vitamin A.10 11 12 OCs may interfere with manganese absorption.13 The clinical importance of these actions remains unclear <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> Birth control may deplete or interfere with the absorption or function of the nutrient. Taking these nutrients may help replenish them. Folic acid <BR> <BR>Magnesium* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B1* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B12* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B2* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B3* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B6 <BR> <BR>Vitamin C* <BR> <BR>Zinc* <BR> <BR> May be Beneficial: Side effect reduction/prevention—Taking these supplements may help reduce the likelihood and/or severity of a potential side effect caused by the medication. Folic acid <BR> <BR>Vitamin B6 <BR> <BR> May be Beneficial: Supportive interaction—Taking these supplements may support or otherwise help your medication work better. Folic acid* <BR>The people that produce birth control know that their products are unhealthy for women but they continue to profit off of us. <BR>Birth control causes an estrogen dominance and that can lead to many horrible side effects that we have INCLUDING CERVICAL DYSPLASIA. <BR>Here is something else that might help: <BR>http://www.energeticnutrition.com/vitalzym..._dominance.html <BR> <BR>http://www.energeticnutrition.com/vitalzym..._dominance.html <BR> <BR>http://www.natureshealthypeople.com/explai..._dominance.html <BR> <BR>http://www.energeticnutrition.com/vitalzym/myomin.html <BR> <BR>http://www.ovarian-cysts-pcos.com/progesterone-cream.html <BR> <BR>http://www.natural-progesterone-advisory-network.com/symptoms-of-estrogen-domina nce.php://http://www.natural-progesterone-adv...-domina nce.php <BR> <BR>http://www.womentowomen.com/symptoms.asp <BR> <BR>Birth control throws your body off track(hormonal imbalance) so we need to balance the body and put those missing minerals back in our system.Also B.V occurs when the acidity of the vagina changes.Notice how birth control depletes all of the things our body needs to stay acidic.Coincidence maybe? I THINK NOT AND I AM PISSED MY DOCTOR DID NOT TELLL ME ABOUT ALL OF THIS BEFORE HAND.Thank God I can read and do my own research.I just hate it's taken 4yrs. to piece everything together.I have been B.V. free for a week and a half.I just need to stick to the program and pray that the B.V. isn't smart enough to catch on to my program and become super B.V. <BR>Sorry this is so long but it might help! <BR> <BR> <BR>

Thanks Lori! It seems to be working so far... I'm just afraid once I stop taking it, it might just come back like everything else i've tried. I really really hope im that 40 percent. Tindamax does like almost a 100% cure for trich thats what it was made for i guess oh and GI tract.

May I ask - what are you referring to?
So the decrease in good bacteria is what causes --> the thinning of the vaginal skin --> which leads to BV?

That's definitely new. May I ask - where do you get that info?

It's my understanding that:

the decrease in good bacteria is what causes --> BV

As far as I know, BV is about bacterial imbalance. I'm not sure what the thinning of the vaginal skin has to do with it.

I thought that the thinning of the vaginal skin/walls can happen because of estrogen-loss (leading to atrophic vaginitis). I've never heard of the thinning happening because of the decrease in good bacteria. How does that happen? I also don't understand how the thinner walls cause BV.

Thinning of the vaginal skin has a lot to do with everything. And the thinning of the mucosa membranes on that skin. Whether it is vaginally, or intestinally. So the thinning of the vaginal skin may decrease in good bacteria adhesion, which may cause BV, but not necessarily in that order. It can happen the other way around too. (BV causes the lining of the vagina to shed, so you may see some discharge resulting from the 'shedding of the vaginal epithelium', I will post a quote here later for everyone to read when I have time to do this.) Lets say a woman undergoes extreme stress, or radiation therapy, or poor diet, or a gastrointestinal disorder like IBS, or some illness, or lets say gets an infection that requires broad spectrum antibiotics, the mucosal membranes of her body become compromised and thinner. Once the thinning of these layers start, a woman has a larger chance of picking up BV. Because the epithelium feeds the good bacteria with glycogen, which they then turn into lactic acid. As the beneficial bacteria grow and develop colonies on the skin, the skin physically becomes thicker, and healthier. And more moist.. a healthy vagina should always have a bit of clear mucous coming out of it to flush out toxins and bad bacteria. And the thicker mucosa and vaginal walls make it harder for the bad bacteria to adhere.

Thinning of the vaginal skin has a lot to do with everything. And the thinning of the mucosa membranes on that skin. Whether it is vaginally, or intestinally. So the thinning of the vaginal skin may decrease in good bacteria adhesion, which may cause BV, but not necessarily in that order. It can happen the other way around too. (BV causes the lining of the vagina to shed, so you may see some discharge resulting from the 'shedding of the vaginal epithelium', I will post a quote here later for everyone to read when I have time to do this.) Lets say a woman undergoes extreme stress, or radiation therapy, or poor diet, or a gastrointestinal disorder like IBS, or some illness, or lets say gets an infection that requires broad spectrum antibiotics, the mucosal membranes of her body become compromised and thinner. Once the thinning of these layers start, a woman has a larger chance of picking up BV. Because the epithelium feeds the good bacteria with glycogen, which they then turn into lactic acid. As the beneficial bacteria grow and develop colonies on the skin, the skin physically becomes thicker, and healthier. And more moist.. a healthy vagina should always have a bit of clear mucous coming out of it to flush out toxins and bad bacteria. And the thicker mucosa and vaginal walls make it harder for the bad bacteria to adhere.

CanCan,

You keep saying that thinning vaginal walls causes BV. That is just plain false. It causes atrophic vaginitis, which is not BV, and requires different treatment.

Please look up the word "atrophic" or "atrophy" in the dictionary.

Atrophic Vaginitis - is vaginitis with severe tissue atrophy usually associated with estrogen deficiency. Yes many women get atrophic vaginitis and need to treat that in order to eliminate their BV.

No, I did not say that thinning vaginal walls causes BV. I am saying that the thinning of the vaginal walls 'may' cause BV. And often does. Douching 'may' cause BV. Antibiotics 'may' cause BV. Hormonal imbalance 'may' cause BV. Dehydration 'may' cause BV. Numerous things may cause BV. In fact, if you are unfortunate enough to have numerous of these occurances at the same time, then you have a higher likelihood of developing BV or a yeast infection. Also, I am saying that the thinning of the mucose membrane which is part of the vaginal wall can become thinner for numerous reasons.

Atrophic Vaginitis - is vaginitis with severe tissue atrophy usually associated with estrogen deficiency. Yes many women get atrophic vaginitis and need to treat that in order to eliminate their BV. But I am not talking about that. I am talking about general mucosa health. Mucosa membranes in our reproductive organs, our intestines, our eyes, our sinuses, etc.

[ Definition: Mucous membrane
Mucosa is moist tissue that lines some organs and body cavities throughout the body, including your nose, mouth, lungs, and digestive tract. Glands along the mucosa release mucus (a thick fluid).

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002264.htm ]

Thinning of the walls of the mucosa can happen numerous ways. You took antibiotics. Or you have a hormonal imbalance. Or you haven't had sex in a while. (You don't use it - you lose it.) Or even if you are on antihistamines for your allergies. For example, if you take antihistamines often because of an allergic condition you may have, you will dehydrate all of your mucose membranes. Certain medications like antihistamines or decongestants can interfere with your vaginal moisture. If the mucose membranes become dryer and thinner, or rubbed off, they can not support growth of the lactic acid bacteria. If the mucosa is too depleted, it has a harder time to build up again probiotic colonies, it will take longer. As well, adequate mucose is important for vaginal flushing of pathogens. (I will post something later about mucose membranes, and the incidence of HIV.)

[ There are a variety of medications that can cause vaginal dryness.

Some medications lead to vaginal dryness by altering estrogen levels, while others can directly dry out the mucous membranes. Some types of medications that can lead to vaginal dryness include:

* Cancer treatments (e.g. Tamoxifen)
* Treatments for Vaginosis (e.g. Metrogel)
* Antihistamines (which dry out the mucous membranes)
* Treatments for Urinary Tract Infections
* Anti-depressants (e.g. Effexor)
* Medications for ulcers and high blood pressure

http://sexuality.about.com/od/sexualsideef...svaginaldry.htm ]

[ Vaginal dryness is an extremely common problem for young women, and the problem only increases with age. Women might notice feminine dryness around their monthly periods with tampon use; after childbirth or while nursing their baby; during times of stress, or after excessive exercise like jogging.

http://www.hitchedmag.com/article.php?id=374 ]

And if you have vaginal dryness and/or compromised vaginal mucosa, this isn't necessarily hormonally driven. It seems that most conditions can be helped, each situation is unique though, and you have to first determine which factor is dehydrating you, irritating you, or causing the inflammation. And you may have to stop taking your other medications, or change them. You may have to change your excercise regimine. You may have to eliminate stress. Stress alone can make a woman extremely dry, so finding a way to deal with stress will eliminate the problem, or at least reduce it.

Delurking: What is your plan of action CanCan? It seems like you, Neverending and Lori should all write a comprehensive book together...And cure all women!!!!!!

*

That's really nice of you to say. But oh my, you couldn't be more ... off.

Maybe I've been too civil and polite to get my point across.

I think CanCan is completely full of shit. I'm not sure if she just doesn't know what she's talking about, or if she's just pulling things out of her ass trying to cover up for the fact that she's said some ridiculous things.

- When I ask her to cite her sources, she randomly cites sources that have nothing to do with my question.
- She even says, "Loss of good bacteria causes thinning vaginal skin." I asked her to back this up, and she can't.
- She keeps talking about all the problems that thinning vaginal walls causes. When I realize that she doesn't know what "atrophic" means, I point out to her that "atrophic vaginitis" literally means "problems caused by thinning vaginal walls." She still insists that that's not what she's talking about.

CanCan just making stuff up, at this point.

Neverending is a known liar. IIRC, she made up a dictionary definition to try and save face.

I've found that both women are willing to say ANYTHING. Why would anyone do this? We're all trying to share helpful information here, aren't we? I think they really need to set their ego aside.

I've been wrong many times (blog and board). This is a complicated topic where even doctors don't know everything, so of course everyone makes mistakes. And when people point out my mistakes or wrong info, I always go back and correct myself because the most important thing is to make sure the right information is out there.

Also, I'm very open to other points of view and theories. But there are other theories, and then there's bullshit and ego. When people start making shit up and lying, that is officially bullshit and ego, which I have no respect for.

Sorry to respond this way, JoanClayton. You're just being nice, and probably didn't expect me to go off like this. But I guess I really have been too nice.

--

As far as helpful books: you really can't go wrong by reading The V Book, written by Dr. Stewart, asst. prof. at Harvard Med. It contains a lot of basic information about vaginal health that would be good for every woman to know. Please also read my blog, which is a compendium of useful stuff from this whole thread. I need to update it, but it's a good way to get the jist of the useful info from this thread without the bullshit and ego.

Neverending:
Did you ever whip this BV thing with vitamin supplements? Please say yes, please say yes. I didn't feel like reading through 185 more pages to find the answer.

Ladies new to the board please pay Lori no mind. She is a shit starter here.

Want proof:

jewelscando:
Lori....

I was reading through the post today, and thought...wow...I can't believe they are fighting again...AND LOW AND BEHOLD...ITS FUCKING YOU AGAIN STARTING SHIT!!!

Fuck you Lori...YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY SHIT ABOUT ME, OR BRING UP MY NAME. I have stayed away, like I said I would...and you're still fucking bad mouthing me.

Awww, the good old days!

Neverending, you and I both know that jewelscando and I have gotten far past our differences. We both recognize in each other that we want to help others. I, for one, never engaged in the name-calling, but Jewels has been cool enough to be the one to extend the olive branch first, and I appreciate that.

See, THAT'S being an adult. Putting our differences aside for the good of others. You, obviously, do not know anything about that.

Instead of dragging other people's drama into this, and "starting shit" (ironic!) between other people for your own selfish reasons, why don't you just think about what the best thing for this group is?

I don't know. Just a suggestion.

I ordered the Femdophilus and got it the other day. The ice pack inside was completely melted and warm, but I threw it in the fridge immediately.

Been taking it now for four days. We'll see....

Also---still a faithful user of the tto and boric acid. They work nicely for what they are. I'll keep y'all posted on the Fem-doph thing. I'm just so PISSED that I paid for the 2nd day shipping thing and STILL it was hot!!

Dammit!

--Quiet--

Sorry it took me sooo long to respond. I didn't see this post. I used estroil to rid myself of this crap. I still have vaginal dryness but no smell or discharge.

You guys are not helping anyone by fighting.

Everyone's body is different, and therefore everyone will respond differently to different things.

I think we need to all agree to respect the methods each individual woman is using.

It's great that Lori has gotten rid of her BV with the Fem D, but some woman have tried it and it hasn't helped. This means it's not a cure or remedy for everyone and other treatments should be respected as well. We're all on the same side here...

Hallelujah....so you guys CAN see me! I've posted three times without a single reply, thought I was invisible, giving up. You're young, Neverending, aren't you? I thought estrogen only needed to be replenished with menopause. What the heck do I know? I'm 34 and my girl parts are just the opposite of dry, too wet. I'm so confused. I used the Clindesse, it, whatever IT is (see previous posts if you care to), came back, tried to wait it out to go away on its own. Tried Flagyl vaginally for the first time. Last day of dosage, started spotting. Is this from the Flagyl or the freakin' Seasonique I recently started taking? I started taking the Seasonique to avoid the period so often - in case that was causing the BV. Wouldn't you know it, side effect break-through bleeding made me spot for 21 days. I'm on my second month of Femdophilus, trying to prevent the spotting from turning into BV. I've got HPV lurking in my body, don't know if that's doing it.....just don't know....just like everyone else. Thanks for listening and thanks for acknowledging me!
- damselindistress
P.S. I'm about to start taking something called DIM, a natural supplement. In doing my HPV research, I found this is supposed to keep the virus/cancer in check, regulate your estrogen, and maybe even help guys/girls lose a little weight to boot. There are clinical trials going on seeing how helpful it is in keeping cancer (prostate, cervical, breast) at bay, could be the miracle I've been looking for!

No your not invisible. LOL........I was 19 when this problem started. I stopped taking my Lo/Ovral Birthcontrol and BAM, the problems started. I told doctor's this did not start for me until after I had stopped the birth control and they kept brushing me off like I didn't know what I was talking about. They kept testing me for STD'S and they came out neg. from 19-24. Then I started doing my own research and finally last year I figured out what the problem was and fixed it with estoril/estrogen. Lo/ovral is a estrogen lowering birth control, so I guess it threw me into menopause. I had dry eyes, hot flashes, very bad acne, weight gain you wouldn't believe,etc.
P.s. Oh, I'm 25 now!

As far as your HPV, Have you heard of beta-mannan? (sp?) I heard this product was supposed to be good. I hope everything works out for you. Next time we ignore you (lol) write in caps.

Thanks for the suggestion, one more thing to research, beta-mannan. I'm addicted to research, I swear, can't stop. I'd like to think I'm being pro-active, looking for a solution, certainly not obsessive/crazy. Did you have any hormone testing done? Is there such a thing? Now that you mention it - I often wake up with night sweats and I do have the occasional hot flash, never really thought about it. My doctor might throw me out if I ask for one more test.

Did you have any hormone testing done? Is there such a thing?

Now that you mention it - I often wake up with night sweats and I do have the occasional hot flash, never really thought about it.

Dayum ladies, it got a lil ugly in here for a minute **slippin on my referee shirt and whistle** TIME OUT!!

Update: been taking the femflora (cheaper/comparable alternative to fem-D) religiously like 3 or 4 capsules per day. I have only done the boric acid once in the last 2 weeks. And lo and behold it seems to be working since i've doubled up on the femflora. I'm excited!!!! Im glad I bought two bottles cuz i've almost run through one in like 3 wks. LOL Oh well, if it works, i'll continue buying two at a time. I'm sick of this BV/Yeast merry-go-round I've been on the last 3 yrs. Hopefully this will work.

I ordered the Femdophilus and got it the other day. The ice pack inside was completely melted and warm, but I threw it in the fridge immediately.

Been taking it now for four days. We'll see....

Also---still a faithful user of the tto and boric acid. They work nicely for what they are. I'll keep y'all posted on the Fem-doph thing. I'm just so PISSED that I paid for the 2nd day shipping thing and STILL it was hot!!

Dammit!

--Quiet--

No, I didn't do any hormone tests. I asked one doctor for a hormone test and he said he doubts it was my hormones and did a thyroid test instead. Smart move right?

I'll tell ya, I told every doctor that I had, that this was hormonal and like I said before they all brushed me off like I didn't know my body or that I didn't know what I was talking about.

The thyroid is one of the largest endocrine glands in the body. This gland is found in the neck inferior to (below) the thyroid cartilage (a.k.a. the Adam's apple in men) and at approximately the same level as the cricoid cartilage. The thyroid controls how quickly the body burns energy, makes proteins, and how sensitive the body should be to other hormones.

Just for my 2 cents, I have also noticed that none of this was happening before Lori came back on the board.

I mean sometimes I am thinking what do you want a medal or something??? For all the research you have done?

But isn't that a hormone test?

Doesn't a thyroid produce hormones?
Obviously, you don't.

--

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroid
Knowledge is a good thing.

Hey girls

WOW I haven't been here in a few days, and geez it has really gotten crazy. If it's going to stay like this, I probably won't come here anymore. I used to be able to log on, read through a few fairly brief posts about members' progress/ideas and now I have to scroll through huge posts of arguing and bickering about the cause of BV, the cure of BV, what works for someone, how someone worded this, etc. etc. It is very annoying. Just for my 2 cents, I have also noticed that none of this was happening before Lori came back on the board. I mean sometimes I am thinking what do you want a medal or something??? For all the research you have done? We are all suffering and not all of us have the same education background or information, not all of us have the time to research til the sun comes up. I feel as though many of her (your) posts have been condescending and clearly I am not the only one who feels this way - so obviously something is up. For awhile now I have thought I would stay out of it and not cause more conflict, but it sure is difficult. I just feel so annoyed reading through what's on here from the last several days.
sooo sad - I saw your post on the next page - I'm doing ok, thanks! I see you seem to be doing better and that is great. Keep us/me updated. I am not sure how I am doing to be honest. The discharge seems to be changing from what it was 1 week ago (makes me think perhaps it is the normal fluctuation of discharge throughout my monthly cycle). Also, something I have noticed is, that if I smell on my underwear it smells "normal" (like how I remember it smelling before any of this happened)...but when I smell it direct it smells different (I have never smelled it direct before this though). Does anyone else know what I mean?

Anyway I am taking femd and acidop. each day, I have been meaning to get one of those ph kits but they are so expensive.

Here we go ladies! Lori is here to start shit once again. your period must be on because you have been acting like a bitch for quite sometime now. Like I said before, ACT LIKE A GROWN ADULT.