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epinephrine
Oh my god. Bust was down for a whole day and I thought I was gonna lose my shit.

Well, things have once again deteriorated between me and J. I had been cleaning my apartment and I found one of the many little love notes she used to write me and I just couldn't believe that the person who'd hurt me so badly and treated me so coldly was the same person who used to write me the sweetest little love notes every day. So after our lesson last night, when she dropped me off at home, I made the mistake of trying to talk to her about the same shit that we've been going over for months, and she had nothing to offer. I just wanted to tell her how much she hurt me and how much I hate what's happened between us, and now that I think about it there was really no chance that she would have anything to say that would have made me feel any better. I guess I was just guilt tripping. But the conversation ended badly and I spent the night with wicked nausea and stomach cramps, which resumed as soon as I woke up this morning. I wished I could just puke and get it over with. After she left, I went and fiddled with the computer until I finally got the internet running, and I was so pleased with myself until I logged onto Facebook and the first thing I see (on the news feed - I wasn't looking) is a bunch of pictures of J and A together, with all kinds of comments from their friends about how cute they are. Now they've both got pictures of themselves together as their profile pictures. So to keep myself from having to look at them and to save myself the temptation to keep track of them over Facebook, I've deleted them both from my friends. I know it sounds melodramatic, but it was like a scab I couldn't stop picking. And then I couldn't log onto Bust and get it all out. It was a bad, bad night.

On the upside, for a little while at least, I finally experienced that feeling of not caring anymore about J and being happy that we weren't together. We were talking, and she was just going on and on about herself and how much everyone loves her and how great she is, and I just thought, you know what you are? You're a fucking brat. You're an insecure, immature, irresponsible, shallow little princess and I'm glad it's over. Of course, a part of me is still upset that it's over and misses her desperately, but I really heard that other side for the first time.

I read that, when getting over a breakup, it can be helpful to list all the ex's faults, and J certainly has many of those. So just to encourage that little voice I heard that wanted to move on, here they are:

1) She doesn't really know who she is or what she wants.
2) She's inarticulate and not a very logical thinker - not much of a thinker in general, really - and can be impossible to communicate with.
3) She's totally enamoured with herself! She's constantly checking herself out in anything with a reflection and talking about herself and overestimating her abilities in everything. She would always get super grumpy in our martial arts classes because she made tons of mistakes and she hated it when I corrected her. I wasn't even allowed to look like I wanted to correct her. She always talks about how much better she is at everything and how much other people admire her. She is a talented, capable girl, but not nearly as talented and capable as she seems to think she is, and she needs to get over herself. Her ego is just huge.
4) She's insecure and craves attention. She always has to be the loudest, the flirtiest, the cutest, whatever. Ugh.
5) She can be really shallow and cliquey.
6) She's a cook, and she's really critical of her cooking and invites other people's criticism when she cooks for them, but she always gets mad when I tell her it's too salty! It's always too fucking salty! Enough with the salt!
7) She has horrible taste in movies. She was always making me watch awful stuff with Will Farrell.
8) She's a blanket hog, and is super grumpy when she wakes up in the morning.
9) ...

I know there's more, but I don't have time to finish the list right now, so I'll just leave it at that. I feel a little better now.

Oh, and yes, ccgirl, I am Canadian - and I just noticed now that you are, too! I should really check out the Canadian Busties thread sometime - there don't seem to be many of us on here!
stargazer
QUOTE(epinephrine @ May 28 2009, 02:12 PM) *
So to keep myself from having to look at them and to save myself the temptation to keep track of them over Facebook, I've deleted them both from my friends. I know it sounds melodramatic, but it was like a scab I couldn't stop picking. And then I couldn't log onto Bust and get it all out. It was a bad, bad night.


epinephrine, I don't think what you did was melodramatic at all. I will say that I've been reading your posts and it sounded like you tried really hard to be the friend, but, you are just not in that place. And it is ok. You might not be able to be friends now, but, maybe in the future. Or, you might not even care to be friends. When I broke up with my ex, I felt in my heart that I was ok being friends, but, I saw the struggle it was for her. I slowly set boundaries until I had to eventually just ends things. In the end, it was the best thing ever for us. I had to end things as friends to salvage the friendship because she was using our friendly interactions to bring up old issues. I hope you can see that by not being friends with J that you are making yourself and your own happiness a priority. I'm glad you keep posting in here to stay grounded.
epinephrine
Thanks, stargazer. God, I'm so glad I have this thread with all these intelligent, impartial people to work through my shit with...I don't feel like I'd have survived without you guys. Thank you all.

Well, apparently she's not mad at me. She called me today asking if I wanted to hang out and I politely sidestepped the invitation, but then she called me later asking if she could do laundry at my place, because her place has an extremely restrictive shift system and she'd just missed her shift, and I just felt weird turning her down. So she came over to do her laundry but I was already hanging out with friends, so we just all hung out together in the sun not talking much so it wasn't too bad. She spent the whole time taking pictures of herself on her phone and gazing at them, and then asking us to take pictures of her. Then my friends went home and it was just the two of us and we made polite conversation for a few minutes and it was ok, but then I started feeling uncomfortable and ended up asking her to leave and come back for her laundry later. I just can't be around her right now.

I've figured out the best way to articulate how her new relationship changed everything for me: if she'd broken up with me and just stayed single, at least for a little while, it would have been just a "it didn't work out" type of situation, which is fair, because it was obviously not working out. But breaking up with me and immediately starting a relationship with someone else makes it all about me. It wasn't good with me, but it's good with someone else. That's just straight up rejection. And that's what I can't deal with. I feel less rejected knowing that she still wants to hang out, but at the end of the day she's still with someone else and not me and that's rejection. And I just can't be friends with her until I resolve that, because it just dominates all of my interactions with her and that's not in any way a normal, healthy friendship. I wanted so badly to alleviate the sense of rejection that I tried to be friends right away, but it just didn't work. I hate the way things turned out. I never imagined that things would turn out the way they did, and it just hurts so much. I want to get over it as fast as possible, but it's just going to have to happen on its own.

Fucking hell.
Persiflager
Well done on setting your boundaries, epinephrine! I think you're striking a really good balance with J.

I'm not sure if this makes it better, but she did say that she 'considered herself single' for the past six months, so from her point of view there was a decent interval between the two of you. Does that make it any less of a rejection?

Anyway, big woop for hanging out with friends in the sunshine!
candycane_girl
epi, I think it's good that you set some boundaries. I know that personally if I break up with someone I just do not want to see or hear from them at all. It's bad enough to have to see your ex but then to see that ex with another person? In my opinion, that is just torture. Especially since it happened pretty much immediately after you two broke up.

Also, don't forget that things aren't guaranteed to work out in her new relationship either. Not that you should be hoping that it fails (although that's what I would do) but who knows what will happen with them.

I thought I was doing okay but right now it's late, I'm alone and I miss him so much. I guess it was stupid of me to watch a TLC special about wedding planning. It's weird, I went through a lot of today thinking about his bad qualities. My main issue with him was that he always wanted to spend Saturdays with his best friend who just happens to be a girl. Now that I know he never wanted to be in a relationship maybe that's why he did it. Just to maintain his lifestyle the way it was before he met me.

But it bugged me so much when we talked last week and he actually asked "You were upset that we didn't hang out on Saturdays?" Um, yes, fuckhead! Any time I got upset with him that was the one thing that it was about. I felt like other than that, things were nearly perfect. I don't know if he just didn't remember what our few arguments were about or what but that really pissed me off.

I decided that if we do get back together that my one condition would be that I see him either on a Friday or a Saturday. But once again, I feel like I shouldn't even be thinking about getting back together with him. I desperately want us to be together but it's pretty much up to him. It's just hard. I have no idea how I could ever meet someone who has as much in common with me as he does. I hope that we get back together but I have no idea what he's going to say. There have been so many times where I wished I could just pick up the phone and dial his number but I haven't. At least I'm staying strong in that regard.

I'm at this weird point where I can't even cry. It's not like I'm holding it back or anything. It's like there's just nothing there. If I try to cry I feel like I'm forcing it. But since I'm not crying it's just like this horrible weight in my chest that won't go away.
epinephrine
So J and I had our last martial arts lesson together today. Some of our instructors know and some don't. It really feels over now. After that we walked home together, which I didn't really feel like doing, but we were both walking and we were going to the same place, and I'm not going to take any extraordinary measures to avoid her or anything. So I've seen her nearly every day this week, when what I really wanted was some space. I guess that's just what happens when you're neighbours. And when you're like me and have no friends and no life to fill up your time. When we were walking home today I felt like I had nothing to say to her, and I wasn't really interested in what she was talking about. It was more of the same shit. I got some new clothes, I'm a supersly ninja shoplifter, I look hot in my new clothes, I look hot in my new shoes, I have a huge crush on so and so, blah blah blah. I guess she was probably just scrambling for things to say to keep the conversation from lapsing into awkward silence because of me, but I just wasn't in the mood. Now that we're not doing lessons together anymore I probably won't be seeing as much of her.

ccgirl, seeing them together really is torture, and I totally have wished bad things on their relationship. The time I hung out with A I was tempted to tell her, only half-joking, to "break her heart for me." I guess that makes me a petty bitch. Whatever. A and I are a lot alike and I don't think she's the answer to all the problems J and I had. J needs to grow up and take her ego down a notch or two before she'll find herself in a relationship that works.

Persiflager, that thought has occurred to me numerous times in the endless cycle of J-related thoughts that constantly parades through my head, but it really doesn't make me feel any better knowing that it was actually over between us 6 months ago, that suddenly. I haven't yet discovered a way of thinking about this that doesn't hurt. When I do, I'll seize it and cling for dear life. But right now, no matter how you cut it, it fucking sucks. I just accepted and loved everything about her, all her little flaws and idiosyncracies, and I accepted and welcomed whatever future our relationship might have. I just felt so content with her. For me, that's real love. This girl made me so happy, and the fact that I couldn't make her happy is the most horrible thing in the world to me.

But it'll be 4 weeks tomorrow since I found out about A, and there is a slight but noticable improvement in my general mood. I guess that's something.
stargazer
(((epi))) It will hurt for awhile and, you're right, it does suck. sad.gif


QUOTE(epinephrine @ May 30 2009, 12:17 AM) *
I just accepted and loved everything about her, all her little flaws and idiosyncracies, and I accepted and welcomed whatever future our relationship might have. I just felt so content with her. For me, that's real love. This girl made me so happy, and the fact that I couldn't make her happy is the most horrible thing in the world to me.


One of the things I've realized in my observations of human relationships is that there is someone for everyone. We might not pick that person for ourselves, but they found someone. J found someone else to nurture her ego and if or when things with A fail, she may very well find someone else to replace her. Some people like to recognize relationship patterns and make changes or remain blind to them. Either way they get what they want.

So, now what? Now is your time to have all of those things you provided to J be provided to you. You might not want to hear that right now. I know my optimism can make people want to kick me in the teeth sometimes. Well, I may be toothless, but, I will still continue to say, type what I believe in. It sounds like you are really working on making changes for yourself. Give yourself time to grieve this relationship and, at the same time, acknowledge the minor changes in your life. I was all boo-hoo-y myself acouple months ago about my own perceived failures (love life, unsupportive friends) and, at the same time, I had to acknowledge the good things I've created for myself (such as friends...working on the relationship thing). I hope I don't sound patronizing, but, I just want to acknowledge your work you are doing on yourself. You won't come out in the place you envisoned yourself to be, but, I think this place will be better for you in the end.

Ok. End of cheerleader rant. wink.gif
epinephrine
Thanks, Stargazer.

I found some pictures of her (and us) on my phone last night that I'd forgotten about. I don't know what to do. They're nice, and I don't want to delete them, but any reminder of happier times just makes me want to die right now. Just knowing they're there hurts a little. I had a dream about her last night. Very low-key. We were out for dinner, as a couple, exactly like we always used to do. Woke up sad.
candycane_girl
I can't stop thinking about him. I'm at home which is helping a little bit but I feel like I end up talking about him to my mom every night. At least she's willing to comfort me. She knows that I'm hurting a lot so she's not going to tell me to just suck it up or anything.

Last night was the worst. I was crying and I ended up throwing up. I'm embarrassed to say that this has happened a lot since we broke up. I don't know what it is exactly, maybe something is somehow hitting my gag reflex. But I hate the fact that I'm so upset that it goes beyond me just crying.

Tomorrow will be two weeks since I last saw him. I miss him so much. We're going to talk in a few more weeks. I can only hope that he'll change his mind and realize that even though he has a lot of issues to work through that we can still be together.

I'm a bit mad at myself. I keep thinking that maybe if I hadn't lost my cool and gotten so angry that we would still be together. I don't know.

I keep trying to picture me and him getting back together. I know it sounds silly but I'm kind of hoping that maybe visualization will help. I just miss him so much.
sybarite
CCgirl, don't second guess yourself or blame yourself for 'losing your cool.' You did what you needed to do, because he wasn't communicating clearly, and you (like any of us would) needed him to be straightforward. I'm glad you have your mom to talk to, that must help.

((((You))) and ((((Epi))) I know these are tough times; it will get better.
epinephrine
Fuck. J called me this morning asking if I wanted to go to our martial arts class together and I said yes, even though I knew it was a bad idea. And it was. We didn't get along at all. It was awkward and tense and I feel like as much as I love her, I don't really like her very much right now. She's so full of herself, and I feel like she thinks she's better than me. I feel like she has no respect for me at all. She sees how I'm reacting to this and I just look stupid to her, and the stupider she thinks I look, the happier she is that it's over. I feel like she views our relationship less and less positively and her new one more so. She mentioned that she's going on a road trip with someone - I can guess who it is. They're going to San Francisco and Vegas. We were planning on going there one day. Guess things are going well between them. Fucking bitch. I can't wait to get the fuck out of here and leave them behind. I expect to be gone by the middle of the month. I don't want to see J or talk to her at all right now, but I'm so lonely and I miss her so much it's really hard to say no when she calls. I might have to tell her to lose my number for a while. But I really don't want to do that, either. I just have nobody to feel close to right now, and I'm not used to that. I'm used to always having someone to rely on, who'll always be there when I want to talk or hang out. Now that J's gone, I have nothing.

I've been reading my old posts from the Dating/Relationship Advice thread from before we broke up, when the relationship was deteriorating, and remembering how unhappy I was and how much I wanted to leave has helped a little. I just don't want to be the only one who also remembers how good it used to be.

ccgirl, you're doing really well. Better than I am, anyway. At least you have the strength to stick to your guns and stay away from him while you deal with this. I'm impressed that you've gone 2 weeks without any contact at all. I'm an idiot and keep going back for more.
epinephrine
whoops
candycane_girl
(((epi))) I'm really not as strong as you think I am. The whole deal is that I promised to leave him alone for an entire month and we agreed to talk at the end of it. Part of why I'm staying so committed to not contacting him is to prove that I can give him space when he needs it. I'm hoping that if I prove this to him that we'll be able to get back together, so that I can show him that I won't pressure him. God, it sounds so stupid but I feel like I'm willing to do almost anything to get him back.

I just can't get over how much I miss him. I feel like I think about him 23 hours out of every day. Everyday some small part of me hopes that I'll open my email to find an email from him asking to see me. But that hasn't happened and I know that it won't.

And now I'm going to say what I probably shouldn't. I hope he is in hell right now. I hope he feels ten times more awful than I feel. I hope he misses me so much that it hurts and that he is crying everyday, just like I've been. I would never normally wish any ill will on him but I just want him to hurt and realize that it wouldn't hurt if we just got back together.

God, two and a half more weeks. I just tortured myself by looking at some of his old emails. The worst was one where he said that he loved me so much he couldn't describe it with words. And it just brings me back to this whole situation. We both love each other. I don't know why, if he loves me, he thinks that he needs to be alone. It just doesn't make sense to me.
purplestain
Never been on this thread before, but here goes:
I'm 18, and I briefly dated my Hot Friend just over a year ago, for a couple of months, nothing too serious. We didn't have sex while we were dating, but we ended up having sex a few months later - the first time for both of us. It was just for fun... but then I went to college, lost touch with a lot of old friends, got really lonely and depressed, and you guessed it: developed a huge and completely debilitating crush on him for like six months. I felt like I was going crazy. All of my feelings were MUCH MUCH stronger than they had EVER been before or while we were dating. Long story short, we decided to cut off contact for a while, I got over it, started hanging out with another guy, everything was better. But then we began spending time together again annnnnd having sex again, after much discussion about how neither of us wanted to date the other (which was honestly how I felt at the time).

Now he's interested in another girl so we've stopped, but... I'm starting to want him in that way again, and I hate it. I want to hook up with someone else to move on, but I don't feel comfortable doing that with someone I'm not friends with, and there are no viable candidates. Absolutely no one seems to measure up, and I can't imagine being able to trust anyone else as much as I trust him. Also, he is my physical ideal and smells really good. WHAT THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO DO????? Am I just being young and naive? How does everyone else in college have functional relationships when every guy here is an immature douchebag?? I can't fake liking someone but sometimes I wish I could just so I could Have A Boyfriend. Help help help me please.
ketto
Hey purplestain, I think your post would be better suited to the crush thread. http://www.bust.com/lounge/index.php?showtopic=31451

epinephrine
Well, I bought my ticket today. I'm leaving on the 16th. I feel relieved, but I also hate leaving things the way they are between J and I. I do plan to see her before I leave. Hopefully we'll manage to make it friendlier than our last few visits. I don't really understand what changed; we were getting along fine considering the circumstances, and suddenly it just went sour. I think it started when I got stupid and tried to talk to her about how much she hurt me last week. It's been awkward since then, especially for me. I guess I just hit a new phase in the grieving process. I just don't know what to say to her when I see her and I can't imagine what we could do together that would be fun.

God, I really really wish we'd just made a clean break when we had the chance. It would have killed me to end the relationship so suddenly, when I was so happy and settled and never saw it coming, but anything would have been better than this. We've basically spent the last 7 months breaking up. I feel like we ruined all the things that made our relationship special, and now all we'll remember our 2 year relationship by is how much things sucked at the end. That's one of the reasons why I freaked when J started seeing someone else - it's so much easier to forget the happier times with your ex when you've got someone else to be happy with, and I don't want to be the only one who remembers the good times. Or maybe I should just try to forget them. Maybe that's what moving on is.
Persiflager
Hi purplestain! It sounds like this is less about him, and more about you missing your home town and old friends. Have you had much luck making new friends at college? Do you get involved with any groups outside of school? I don't think you're naive, but I don't think you need to hook up with somebody else to move on. You'll move on when you find a way to replace what he was giving you, and it seems to me that the most important thing was friendship/companionship/intimacy rather than just sex. You don't necessarily need to Have A Boyfriend to get those things.

((epinephrine)) As you heal, the bad memories will fade and you'll be left with the good ones. The crapness is dominating at the moment because it's so recent and you're still grieving, but it will get better. I don't think you need to forget the good times to move on.

((cc_girl) I'm sure he's hurting as well.
candycane_girl
I'm wondering if you ladies can try to help me figure something out. I think I mentioned in here before that during my breakup talk with A that he said he had never intended to actually be in a relationship in the first place.

However, some other things came to my mind. The first was that after only two months together he told me that if I asked him to, he would move in with me when his lease was up (which just happens to be now). I mean, two freaking months and he was talking about living together!

Also, not once but twice he said that the only way we would ever break up was if I dumped him. So I'm sure you can imagine that I figured, well I will never want to dump him so I guess we'll be together forever.

And yet then during our breakup talk he said two things. The first was "we would have just broken up eventually anyway". Um, what? Not if I had it my way. Second was "what did you think, we were going to get married and have kids?" Yeah. Kinda. I mean, here I am still hoping that we will get back together and won't ever break up again. And early on he basically made it sound like we would never break up and all of a sudden it's this whole "nothing lasts forever" attitude. He actually said that at one point.

I'm just so confused. And like I keep repeating, the worst part is that it's not like his feelings for me have changed. He said over and over that he still loves me and that I did nothing wrong during our relationship and yet when we met up he just sounded so...pessimistic about relationships. Ugh, I don't know.
ketto
I have been keeping my mouth shut, ccg, because I didn't want to say anything to offend or hurt you but your last post just makes me think I probably have the right idea about your ex guy. Rudderless summed up what I was going to say pretty well, but he sounds really confused and like he's manipulating you, probably unintentionally and he's not willing to own up to that yet. If someone told me after two months that they would move in with me if I asked, I would be running in the other direction. I think Rudderless hit the nail on the head when she said the reality instead of the fantasy hit him. Even if he did want to get back together, it sounds like he needs some serious alone time to figure things out by himself. He doesn't sound anywhere near ready for a real committed relationship.
zoya
ccg - i have to agree with ketto and rudder. Sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear... that kind of thing is not what I want to hear, either. The few people in the lounge who know me on a closer, IRL basis, can tell you that I am the most hapless romantic (and I do mean hapless) when it comes to that kind of stuff. I want to believe in the whole BAM! thing with someone - and then when things start to go south, I get really upset.

I have come to realize in the past year, that it boils down to this one thing: If it's the right thing, it's just not that hard. Not as hard as things have been with this guy for you. if it's the right thing, with the right person, at the right time for both of you, you won't have to guess. You won't be confused. Things will happen at a sensible pace that won't leave you both stressed out and wondering.

I have been exactly where you are in the last year, even. wondering what went wrong with someone and going over and over it in my head. but at the end of the day, I've come to realize that it just shouldn't be that much work. I can't make anyone do something they aren't capable of doing, and to be honest, I'd rather be with someone who has already gone through their personal growth with this shit, and is ready to walk right in. I don't want to be part of anyone's growth process to get relationship ready, anymore. I want to be the one who reaps the benefits of the growth they've done before they met me, on their own.

Sorry if I sound harsh. I have been emotionally where you are, and I sooooo get it. It's a horrible hole to feel you're in. It's like something was ripped from you without your consent and you can't do anything about it. You're cold turkey and you just have to white knuckle your way through. it is awful. The only fix I can see for it in my life, anymore, is to just not let myself get involved with people who straight up tell me, either in words (usually, if I choose to hear them) or by their actions, that they're not into pursuing a relationship with me. I'm at the point I'd rather be single and happy than trying so damn hard to make something like that work, and be miserable.


((((CCG))))
candycane_girl
I guess maybe I should have given a bit more background information just to put things in context, not that I expect any of you to change your opinions.

His last relationship ended last year and it had gone on for 7 years from when he was 18 to 25. He told me that he wanted to break up after 5 years and tried to twice but that she literally was on the floor begging him not to leave her so he didn't. But eventually she ended up cheating on him so they split up officially once their lease was up.

Anyway, fast forward a few months later and he had just sold his couch on craigslist and decided to look at the personals for fun. Probably the way I sometimes look at the random hookup ads for a laugh. And then he came across my ad and he thought that I sounded interesting and that's how it all started.

On one hand it felt like things were moving fast (emotionally) but in reality all we were really doing was dating. Just going out, having fun, doing whatever. But even after the first few weeks we both said that it felt like we had somehow known each other for a really long time, like it had been longer than it really was. Has anyone here ever felt that before?

As for the moving in thing I told him that I was not into that at all and that I never want to live with anyone unless I'm married.

I guess what I keep thinking is that as an adult, he really has not had much time on his own. I mean really, 7 years straight of being with the same person and then he was only on his own 5 months before meeting me. I've had the complete opposite experience with spending almost all of my adult life on my own with only one 3 month relationship four years ago and then this one. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I sort of understand his feeling of needing to be on his own and yet it does conflict with his feeling of loving me. And yes, I say love because that is what it was to me and to him.
girltrouble
hey candy i read both your posts before i read the replies.

while i agree with some of what is said, i don't think that a was trying to manipulate you. sometimes you can find someone before you are ready for them or the relationship that they offer. it's so not that a doesn't love you, but he knows that he isn't ready. i think like it or not, you have to respect where he's at and move on.

zoya and i have talked, and i get where she is coming from. i can't say that i blame her. i think you are in a similar situation that she was in, but i don't think that love is always easy. i've had love where we were so in sync, but sometimes love isn't enough, and sometimes it takes work. but i do think you (pardon the sports metaphor) have to hit the ball where it lies. sometimes that means it'll be work, or a fight, or sometimes, that you need to leave it alone. but i think that you are ultimately the one who can make that call.

i always say, no matter how much someone confides in their friends there are only 2 people who can decide if their relationship is worth it-- and those are the two people involved. only you know all of the little things that lead you to where you are at. but i also know, if one person wants to end it, you only do yourself a disservice trying to keep it together.
epinephrine
ccg, your ex sounds a lot like mine. Maybe they should get together. She was also in a 5 year relationship before she met me, from age 15 to 19. That's a long time for that age. She was single for about a year before we got together, which should have been plenty but everyone's different. J was always the one to make the first move and push things further, and I always imagined that I'd be the one getting cold feet. I never dreamed that she'd do the complete 180 that she did. That was one of the worst things about our breakup after the whole leaving-me-for-my-friend thing. I still don't understand it. The best explanation that I can come up with is just that they were both so used to serious, long-term relationships they'd forgotten how to be casual and take it slow and just dove right in before they were ready.

So I move in a week and I plan to see J before I go, just to say goodbye, but I want to keep it light and casual and stay away from anything that might leave any lingering depression that will go unresolved after I leave. I'm thinking tennis. We both used to play tennis but haven't in years, and it was one of the things I really wanted to start doing with her when we were still together and trying to work it out. We'll be active and playing but we'll be able to keep our distance and there won't be any opportunity for the conversation to get nasty. Unless her snotty competitive edge gets the better of her. She called me at the crack of dawn this morning to ask if I wanted to buy a really cheap (possibly stolen) laptop off someone she knows. Still feeling nauseous every time I talk to her. I'm having a goodbye party on Saturday and, as strange as it feels to shut them out like this, because we were so close before and they would have been the first on the guest list, I'm not inviting either J or A. I'm not even mentioning it to either of them. I just wouldn't be able to relax and have a good time with either of them there (let alone both - ugh). I mean, they're the real reason I'm leaving.
candycane_girl
epi, to me it seems strange to dive into a relationship right after breaking up. I know she said that she considered herself single for 6 months but still, she was technically in a relationship with you. It actually reminds me of A's ex. She started cheating on him the last few months they were together and practically the day after they broke up officially she was introducing him to her "new" boyfriend.

I didn't realize that you were actually moving. I thought you were just going to spend some time with your aunts. Anyway, I hope that it goes well for you.

However, why are you seeing J one last time? It seems like every time you see her it just hurts you even more. I think I would settle for just a goodbye phone call but that's me.

GT, I have to agree with you on love not being easy. Or rather, I think it's easy to love someone. It's all of the other factors in life that make it difficult to actually be together. Maybe I just have a different view on all of this because of my parents. With them being different races they had so much pressure from other people to not be together that they broke up numerous times when they were dating.

I think that everyone made good points, mainly that A is confused about what he wants. I know that he loves me but at the same time he has a lot of issues to deal with and like I said before, he has never really been alone.

It's just less than two weeks til the date that we're actually going to get in touch with each other to talk. I'm embarrassed to say that I have cried almost everyday that we've been apart. I don't know, I'm hoping that maybe just having the month apart will be enough for him and he will want to get back together. I want it so badly and yet I don't want to get hurt. It's hard to stay positive when I know that it could go either way.
Persiflager
Yay, party for epinephrine! I think that's a really good idea to not invite J or A - well done for taking care of yourself and setting boundaries. I hope you have a great time away from the snotty nausea-inducing craziness!

((candycane_girl)) You don't have to feel embarrassed about crying - I think it's good that you're in touch with your emotions and are granting yourself that release.

I really hope that it works out for you, but it might be one of those horrible situations where he just has a gut feeling that it's not going to work out between you. Either way, I think you've communicated openly and honestly with him and have trusted your own instincts, so you've done all you can.
epinephrine
Had a great counselling session with a new counsellor today. Felt a lot more clearheaded afterward. Then I had a quick lunch with J, because I'm not sure I'll have another chance to see her before I leave. It wasn't too bad, just blah. I had nothing to say to her. She really doesn't seem to understand what I'm upset about. I think she still thinks I want to be with her and that I'm jealous of A, but that's not it at all. I just don't want all that we meant to each other to be erased by a new happiness with someone else.
candycane_girl
I'm feeling quite strange. For the past day or so I just keep picturing A and I getting back together. I think my mom put it best when she said that I'm not sure if it's just wishful thinking or if maybe it's my gut trying to tell me something. It's weird, sometimes my gut feelings are really accurate and my mom can be like that at times, too.

This might sound stupid but I hate having to tell my 20 year old friends who have been in a relationship for at least a year that mine just broke up. I guess I just felt that at my age my relationship would have been more stable.

Anyway, I saw my best friend yesterday and I keep thinking about some of the things we talked about. She said that someone once told her that you know it's love if you can't picture yourself without the other person. So I guess I'm in love. I don't know how he pictures himself. I feel like it's always easier for guys to imagine themselves alone and just moving on with life.

The other thing I discussed with her and my mom was how intense it felt when we first started dating. Obviously you don't intend for that to happen it just does. My mom said that maybe it was just one of those relationships where things were very good but it could only last for a short while.

I don't know. I just want to be with him so badly. I can honestly picture a life with him. Sometimes I wish I were psychic and could somehow know what he's thinking. Anyway, right now I'm in this horrible melancholy state where I just want to listen to the same sad song over and over.
stargazer
QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Jun 9 2009, 11:32 PM) *
This might sound stupid but I hate having to tell my 20 year old friends who have been in a relationship for at least a year that mine just broke up. I guess I just felt that at my age my relationship would have been more stable.


Don't torture yourself with how you should or could be right now in terms of inimate relationships. Jeebus, if I used that type of thinking, then I wouldn't be in a good place myself. Everyone is different when it comes to relationships. When you start comparing yourself to others, then you will always lose.

QUOTE
Anyway, I saw my best friend yesterday and I keep thinking about some of the things we talked about. She said that someone once told her that you know it's love if you can't picture yourself without the other person. So I guess I'm in love. I don't know how he pictures himself. I feel like it's always easier for guys to imagine themselves alone and just moving on with life.


I don't agree with that type of mentality. Pixie had this great post on her myspace page about immature and mature forms of love. Like Zoya, I'm a hapless romantic. I always think of the SaTC episode where Carrie says she wants the "Can't live without you" type of love. But, I've gotten burned, or rather, burned myself with that type of obsessive, consummate thoughts about love. I don't mean to sound like a killjoy, but, I agree with Zoya (did she say it in this thread or another thread?) about things working out and not requiring so much work when it is meant to happen. Who knows. Maybe things will change the way you want them to go. What do I know.

Btw, candy, when the time is up, are you calling him or how did you plan on working it out?
candycane_girl
star, I've always had issues with comparing myself to others. Not just in this respect but in pretty much everything that pertains to my life. It was something that came up a lot when I was in therapy and now that I'm out of therapy it's been hard not to do it all the time.

As for the love thing, like I said to GT, I think it's easy to love someone but it's all of the other things in life that can make having a relationship difficult. Also, I have to ask what constitutes hard? To me, getting back together with A would simply be a matter of giving him more space for a little while. I really don't see that as being work.

I actually remember that SaTC episode and while I don't believe in that kind of crazy all consuming love, I do believe in having a deep emotional connection and being in love. I don't really know how to describe it. And that's another thing I'm finding, a lot of people have different ideas of what it means to be in love and be in a relationship. Take my best friend, for example. She and her bf didn't say "I love you" for 8 months but she also spends all of her time with him and hardly ever sees any of her actual friends. A and I said the words barely 2 months in but we both felt it. However, I would never push aside my friends just because I'm in a relationship and it drives me crazy when girls do that.

As for getting in touch with A, I figured that I would just send him an email asking when he wants to meet up. I keep thinking of one thing he said just before he left. "Let's not say goodbye, let's just say see you later."
zoya
... when I say things shouldn't be difficult, I don't mean that things should always be perfect, with no disagreements, no rocky patches, etc. That happens to everyone.

what I mean is that when two people are in the same place in their lives about being in a relationship, then it just flows. Even if you have rocky patches in the day to day, overall in the "big stuff" you're both equally invested in the relationship, so there's no struggling to just get it off the ground, or keep it going that early in the game.

I don't think that precludes someone loving another person. I was in a two year relationship once where the guy told me straight up he wasn't ready for a relationship when he met me (he'd just gotten out of one that didn't end well) but that he knew I was such a good thing, he didn't want to let me get away. Ultimately, that's what broke us up. I did really love him, and he did really love me - but he just never truly got in the right place to **do** a relationship. We tried. counselling, all that. But - I can admit this now - it took us breaking up and him being on his own for over a year for him to be ready to be in any relationship. And during the course of that time, we just both grew in different directions. When he met his current wife, they were both in exactly the same place and I remember talking to him one day (we're friends now) and him marvelling at how smooth it all was, getting with her. As opposed to the struggle it always seemed to be for us to just do a relationship.

likeanyother
Hi ladies, I just wanted to make a quick post in here to give a bit of an opposing perspective. Without getting into too much boring detail, my relationship with my current boyfriend started out a lot like candycane girl's and ended up working out (well, it's not like we're married or anything, but we've been together almost 3 years, we're in a good place, and we're about to move overseas together).

However when we first got together he was not ready for a relationship. Despite the fact that we had an immediately amazing connection and fell in love very quickly, it was a huge struggle, mostly because he wasn't ready for a serious relationship and I was. It's not that he was cheating on me or wanted to date other people, it was more that he didn't want to change his life to accommodate another person – he wanted to continue to devote lots of time to school, his writing, his friends, going up north to see his family, etc, and not that much to me. It hurt me quite a lot, we had some minor separations, and I spent a lot of effort toward giving him space, even though that went completely against everything I wanted.

In retrospect that is pretty crappy, the relationship was totally on his terms for a long time, I went along with it because I loved him and knew that if it did work out it would be worth it, because of our connection, which worked on so many levels, something I've never had with any other dude. I know that that doesn't work for a lot of women, if the guy isn't immediately able to give you what you're looking for, then he's not worth it. I totally understand that. But, there are some rare cases where it is worth it. Eventually he was ready and capable of being fully committed to me and making time for me and giving me everything I need in a relationship. It just took him a while. Maybe too damn long, but it finally happened, and it has been worth it.

ccg, I really hope it works out for you. It sounds like this guy is really special. And considering what you're going through for him, I hope he can see that you're amazing too and you're worth whatever work he may have to do to be there for you.
candycane_girl
likeanyother, it may sound cheesy but your story gives me hope. Perhaps you can PM me with more of the "boring details".

Like I keep saying, I want him to know that I can give him space. That is one of the reasons that I have not contacted him, to prove that I can give him space if he needs it.

I do feel like he is really special, I have never felt such a strong innate connection to someone before. Like I said earlier, we both said that we felt like we had known each other for years when in reality it had only been a few weeks.

I think I have to agree to disagree with zoya because I simply don't believe that love is easy, and I'm not referring to just the little squabbles or even the longer rough patches. I've known too many people in my life who had to overcome big hurdles to be together but in the end it worked out.

Right now I just keep thinking about certain aspects of our last meeting. He never said "I don't want to be with you" and he didn't even want to say goodbye because he said it felt too final. Instead he cried a lot and I think that he really does want it to work out between us. I do think that maybe his personal history has influenced a lot of his thinking in that he finds it hard to have faith in relationships. But like I keep saying, if he's willing to just be with me and if I'm willing to give him space then I really think it could work out. We'll see.
Persiflager
That's a great post to read, likeanyother - it's a good reminder that a situation can turn out one way for one couple, and completely different for the next.

I was going to comment on the 'love should be easy' discussion, but I think it might get a bit off-topic so I'm going to post in the committed thread instead.

ETA: Lounge kicked me out before I could post in the committed thread, am now too lazy to re-type.
candycane_girl
Looks like edie52 beat you to it, persiflager! Well, kind of.

Anyway, yesterday was 3 weeks since I've seen him. It's kind of strange because it was the first day this week that I didn't cry. However, I felt really really down. I even feel bad for not helping my mom out with putting our leftovers and stuff away after dinner. Instead I just sat on the couch and barely moved.

It was kind of weird because I was watching this show called The Listener and it really made me wish that I could just know what he's thinking. I'm wondering if he'll feel like having one month on his own is enough. Or if he'll feel like he needs more of that. I keep going over what he said and I just don't know. On one hand he kept saying that he didn't want the responsibility of a relationship and that I deserve better. On the other hand he was crying and saying that he wishes he could be with me and he didn't want to say goodbye just yet.

Oh well. Just another week and a half and then I will be emailing him to see when we can meet.

ETA: Being at home is a bit of a help but it's also hard because he grew up here, too. Our houses were literally just a few streets apart. I've passed by his old high school, his old church, the places where he used to work. It feels like no matter where I go or what I do there is always some part of him that's around me. I think that's the hardest part right now. Anyway, I guess I should just try to stay hopeful.

epinephrine
Four days and counting till I leave, and it couldn't come fast enough. I need to start my new life. The longer I spend here with J, the more time we have to make things worse. I went to her place yesterday to pick up the last of my things, which included such highly personal items as my vibrator and the "memory jar," an anniversary gift she gave me during happier times - the most thoughtful gift I've ever been given that made me burst into tears the moment I realized what it was. Clearing the last few things from her place just felt so final. And when I went to her underwear drawer, not even thinking, to get my vibrator, she stopped me and told me she'd get it herself. It feels so strange to have private lives from each other. For 2 years, I shared everything with this girl. We talked for a while and her new thing is to tell me we "weren't right for each other," and that we're "better as friends." Which she always says with a distinctly unfriendly tone. I've completely given up trying to tell her how hostile she sounds when she talks to me. Then A came over, which I knew about and was ok with, and I spent about 20 minutes in the same room with them just to see what it would feel like. And I was surprised to realize it wasn't really that bad - I wasn't suffering just because J was with someone else (although that did hurt), but because of the way she treats me. It wasn't really about A - it was just realizing that I really didn't mean as much to J as she meant to me.

So I did something drastic today. I did a Britney. I just hacked off my gorgeous, beloved 8-year-old dreads, which cascaded down past my ass. They were perfect. I honestly believe - I'm not just bragging - that they were the best dreads in the entire world. They were truly stunning. I'll miss them. My hair was only 4 inches long when I started them at 14. It was the most bizarre, surreal feeling I've ever had. For a second I honestly didn't know if I was actually doing it or if I was just imagining or dreaming it. I felt like I was going to wake up in my bed any second, with all my hair still attatched. I always told myself I'd cut them off when I had a reason, when it really mattered and made an impact and stood for something. Dreads are not like other hairstyles. For better or for worse, they really become a part of your identity. They're not just something you have, they're something you experience. They're a process, something you cultivate, and they change the way you live and the the way you think about your looks. They're also itchy and heavy and annoying, and I'd been thinking about cutting them off for years, but something always stopped me. I was waiting for the day when cutting them off would help me with something. I told myself when I cut them off I'd replace them with a tattoo, and when I knew what the tattoo was going to be I'd know it was time.

Well, since I've gone through all this horrible shit with J, I've learned a valuable lesson in making hard decisions and letting go. We should have let go a long time ago. We'd have saved each other a lot of pain and trouble. My lack of courage to make that tough call has caused me more suffering than I've ever experienced. I've been thinking a lot about cutting off my dreads lately as a way of shaking myself out of my funk a bit, seeing myself differently, boosting my confidence by getting a pretty new hairstyle and all that, and also as a small, symbolic gesture of control and initiative and decision-making in my life. I was walking home today, thinking about things, and a quote from Hedwig and the Angry Inch, a movie which means a lot to me and has had a huge influence on my life, popped into my head: "To walk away, you gotta leave something behind." And I just knew. I get tattoos to symbolize things I've struggled with and learned about myself that I don't want to forget, and that's definitely the one that's defining my life right now. So I got home, relaxed a bit, and then I went and put on the Pixies' Surfer Rosa full blast and took a bunch of pictures of myself with my beautiful golden cascading dreads and then I got my (extremely dull) sewing scissors and I tied them up and I sawed them off. My hands were shaking terribly and I felt numb all over. The lights were too bright. After, I felt really dizzy and thirsty and shaky and my head felt like it was being pushed forward. They were really heavy and always pulled my head back. I was actually having some pretty bad neck tension and headaches from them. I'm going to weigh myself without them later. That's gotta be the easiest - and hardest - way to lose 5 pounds.

So they're gone, and I'm sad, but I'm also really happy. I love my short hair! It's got a great anti-gravity spiky look right now and I think, with a little professional help, it'll look great. And I'm glad I don't have to deal with those horrible smelly dready hippie guys who come up to me on the street and call me "sister" and try to hug me. I was so sick of people thinking I was the same person as them because I had the same hairstyle. I was so sick of it I honestly thought I might throw up on the next guy to try it. I will miss the cute Jamaican boys who smiled at me and called me "rasta," though. I think I'll get the tattoo on my neck or my scalp, small and discreet. It's only for me. I don't plan on seeing J again before I leave, and I think it'll help me to separate myself from her more knowing that she doesn't know about this change and it belongs only to me. I'm starting to rebuild myself again. Without her. I hate that I have to go on without her, but I know now that to walk away from this incredible pain, and from further pain in my future, I have to leave her behind, along with my old life and my old identity. Goodbye.
stargazer
QUOTE(epinephrine @ Jun 12 2009, 11:41 PM) *
So I did something drastic today. I did a Britney. I just hacked off my gorgeous, beloved 8-year-old dreads, which cascaded down past my ass.


That's amazing epinephrine. It sounded like an emotional decision for you. What a symbolic gesture. You should post pics of the before and after. (((epi)))
futura
((((Epinephrine)))))
Wow. I read your post and i can't help feeling moved. You're going in the right direction...amazing!
odysseylily
Hey Busties!
I know I've been gone awhile, but I just read up on everybody's posts since I was last here. Epinephrine, I'm really glad about your move (both physical and emotional). CCGirl, hang in there, and stay busy!

To update with my situation, the ex did get in contact with me. He's sort of hinted that he wants to work things out with me, but he's also seriously considering moving across the country. He asked if I would want to come with. I wish he would have asked that while we were actually together. In any case, it looks like he is getting some mental health help. I'm not sure if he actually will, since this is something he has talked about in the past, but at this point, at least, he is farther along on the path than I have seen him before. So for that I am glad, whether we end up together or not.

My mood is better than it has been anytime since we split. Partially that's because I'm glad the ex and I are on good terms, and there is a spark of hope, although I try not to think about that because who knows. He changes his mind a lot. Otherwise, though, I'm just enjoying the summer and hanging out with people. It's good. I even have a date in a few days.
candycane_girl
epi, it sounds like cutting off your hair was a really great, symbolic move for you.

odysseylily, I'm glad you're doing well. As for the ex, I really hope that he does get help. At least he is talking about it, that's the first step. I don't know if he has ever had a psych evaluation before but I know that the first time I had an intake done it helped immensely. It was almost like a therapy session in itself. Of course, from what you've said it sounds like he would need meds. But maybe a combination of meds and therapy would really help him.

Well, it's officially one week until I contact A about meeting up. It's weird, last night I felt so sad because I was finally understanding why he said "we'll just break up anyway". Well, maybe I didn't understand his reasons for saying it but I started to think about it. I was watching Before Sunset and Ethan Hawke was talking about how there was no more love or laughter in his marriage. And it just made me think about how easy it is for all of that to fade. Even around here it seems like so many people have relationships that start off great and then just evolve into blahness. For the first time ever I thought, "what if we get back together and then the love fades?"

I'm feeling a bit more hopeful today. I really hope that we get back together. But if we do I'm not sure how to make my needs known without him feeling like I'm demanding too much. I've said over and over that I'm willing to give him space but I only want to continue our relationship if I know that it's really going somewhere. I don't know what I'll say to him. Oh well, I guess I'll figure it out.
epinephrine
Oddysseylily! I was wondering what happened to you. So glad to hear things are going better! You sound really good. Ccgirl, you're sounding really good, too. I'm really impressed that you managed to make it all this time without contact. It must have been so hard, but it sounds like it did exactly what you needed it to do. You've started making some peace with the shitty situation and figuring out exactly what you want from this relationship so you won't be completely at the mercy of his whims when you do start talking again. Sounds like everyone's in a much better place right now. Yay us!

J seems to have finally figured out that I deleted her on Facebook and sent me a message last night sounding a little hurt. When I logged on, she'd made a friend request. I'm going to have to explain to her that I don't think I'll be able to get over her as easily when I have constant reminders of her and her new happiness as well as the ability to check in on her and learn more about it. It doesn't mean I don't want to be her friend, I just don't want to have to look at pictures of them together, and I don't need the constant temptation to find out things that will make me feel worse. Especially when they go on that trip to San Fran and Vegas that we had planned to do one day. When I'm a little more over it it should be ok, but right now it's just a bad idea. I have a feeling she'll turn it into a fight. She seems to find me incredibly tiresome right now, and seems to be constantly looking for faults to point out to prove that we weren't right for each other. I know there's absolutely nothing wrong with me, though. I have my flaws, just like everyone else, and they're no worse than any of hers and certainly not incompatible with a relationship. I think I'm going to explore that in my counselling session tomorrow. I just can't think of anything that was wrong enough with me to cause things to fall apart the way they did, and I don't have a clue what she even means when she says we were "wrong for each other." I keep placing all the blame on her, which feels right but also wrong because nothing is ever one-sided like that. If I can accept some responsibility for the way things went I'd be able to get over it faster because it'd mean I'd finally be able to address and deal with some issues which are within my control, rather than dwelling on hers, which aren't, and which I can't do anything to resolve. But I just truly feel like it was all her fault. Aside from just accepting that I got fucked, I don't know what to do about that.
candycane_girl
Hi again, ladies. I'm starting to get anxious about talking to A. Sunday will just be the email to set it up, I don't know when I'm actually going to see him. I'm feeling really hopeless. I keep picturing him saying that he just can't do it. I don't know, for a while there I had such a strong feeling that we would get back together. I think it's not knowing that is driving me crazy. I really hope that we can work it out.

I keep thinking about how all relationships have good and bad parts to them. The thing that gets to me is how A embodies everything I've ever wanted in a man. We have such a strong, unexplainable connection that I feel like I can't just throw our relationship away. That's why I would be willing to work at it if he agrees to get back together.

Oh well. I'm rambling but it helps to get it out.
epinephrine
God dammit. I was doing so well. I hadn't cried in like 5 days. I didn't even miss her. But I was watching the L-word tonight and it was fine until the very end when the closing song came on and it was Amos Lee, which is what J used to listen to all the time when we first got together and we used to sit together on trips and listen to it on a shared pair of headphones and it's like my soundtrack to falling in love with her...god, the fucking memories. She would always fall asleep listening to it and I'd watch her sleep and realize how much I liked her and wonder where all this was going...and the episode was over and I was just about to go to bed, and this is how I'm going to have to end my night. God fucking dammit.
futura
(((((Epinephrine)))))

While these setbacks are very painful, they are part of the process. You're still making headway. This probably won't be the last time you will be blindsided by memories. Keep hanging in there, you have come so far.
candycane_girl
epi, that's one of the shitty things that just happens with breakups. I know I wrote in one of my earlier posts just how many places in my hometown reminded me of A. And there are so many other things. Music, certain tv shows, all sorts of things. It sucks because you can be going along so fine and then one little thing, one small detail can trigger a flood of memories.

Well, it's just two more days until I email A to make plans to talk. I think it's been making me even more anxious because I've gotten sick 4 times in the last 3 days. I'm definitely going to be needing some positive bustie vibes when I finally talk to him. I just hope I can convince him to give us another chance.
epinephrine
Hey, ccg. Good luck. I totally get the nausea thing, too. I haven't actually thrown up yet, but the nausea I experience whenever I talk to J is intense and I've gotten very close. My calorie intake over the past 2 months is half of what it used to be because I can't eat when my stomach is in knots all the time. It's a lot better now that I'm at my aunts' place, though.

I'd tell you not to psych yourself out too much, but I doubt it'd do any good. Just take a deep breath and remember that whole "strength to change the things I can, grace to accept the things I can't, and wisdom to know the difference" thing. I know how annoying it is to have people telling you all that zen shit when all you want to do is scream, and I've nearly scratched the eyes out of everyone who's said it to me in the past 2 months, but when you're the one listening it kinda feels like your job. So I said it. Maybe it'll just drift into your mind at just the right moment, when you really need it most.

Anyway, good luck! Whatever happens, it can't be as bad as waiting around having no idea what'll happen next.

((((candycane_girl))))
candycane_girl
Thanks, epi. I've definitely felt like screaming at people who tell me that "everything happens for a reason" and "it's just meant to be" especially since nothing is final yet.

I got sick again tonight. I was upset and crying really hard. I'm getting so sick of this. I'm throwing up almost everyday. I felt really awful and dizzy after it. This is going to sound horrible but sometimes I wish I could tell A all this just to guilt him into getting back with me. I would never actually do that but I feel like saying, "Look at me! Look at what a mess I am without you. I can't keep food down, I can't stop crying. It doesn't stop and the only thing that will make it better is if we're together."

I'm kind of wondering how I'm going to feel on Saturday and Sunday. Originally I was going to have family visiting so it would have been a bit of a distraction but that got cancelled so now I'm going to be completely on my own.
epinephrine
She keeps emailing me. I'm going to have to tell her to stop. She sounds so happy and it just makes me so miserable. I need space. She's concerned that if we don't keep in touch we won't know each other by the time we see each other again, and we'll never be able to be friends. I'm starting to think if I can't take some time off and find friendship with her again when I'm healthier, then we're just not really friends and shouldn't be forcing it. If it's going to work, it'll work even if we don't keep in touch for a few months. I have a tendency to form codependent relationships with people and I need to stop that and just be by myself for a while and learn to be satisfied with that. I seem to always need someone to be the focus of my energies. Platonic or romantic, I nearly always have that primary relationship, someone who feels like home to me. And when something goes wrong and I'm not close to them anymore, I feel like I'm homeless.

I'm noticing a pattern now of those relationships crashing and burning, starting with my best friend from age 7-10. I was probably in little-kid love with her. We were really close and spent all our time together. I think I even remember earnestly telling her I loved her once. Then she made some more popular friends who didn't like me because I was chubby and weird and she told me one day that she hated me and just joined in with the kids who were bullying me. It took me years to recover. Then there was my ex, T, but that was a little different because I lost interest earlier on and was largely unaffected by the crash-and-burn. I had another best friend, a gay guy who I jokingly referred to as my gay boyfriend, who I'd always had a special relationship with. We just instantly connected. Within minutes of meeting each other, we'd established a really intense connection, and 7 years later, after all we've been through, it's still there. I was totally in love with him, but obviously nothing came of it. We moved in together and it was great for a while, and then he made some new friends and gradually we started spending less and less time together until I realized he'd totally stopped returning my calls unless he needed money. Whenever I managed to get him to make plans with me he'd just ditch at the last minute for some really stupid reason. He accidentally sent me a text meant for one of his new friends once where he called me a bitch. Things kept getting worse and we had a huge falling out. That was when I started hanging out with J, and now that I see it with a little hindsight, it looks disturbingly like a rebound, although all the feelings I had for J were totally sincere. My gay boyfriend and I didn't speak for over a year. The dust has long since settled on that one and we get along again, but we never see each other. And now there's this situation with J.

I just really love life and I love experiencing everything and I just feel like sharing that with someone else really enhances it, because happiness is contagious, and when I'm happy the only thing that can make me happier is being around someone who's also happy and sharing my happiness with them. So sometimes I don't see the point in doing things by myself. I could be eating a really awesome bowl of pho and I'll be thinking "this is really good. But it would be even more awesome if there was someone else here eating it with me so I could see the satisfaction on their face and we could talk about how awesome it is. That would really make it perfect." That was one of the things I loved most about J - we came from such completely different backgrounds and we were such completely different people and we had so much to offer each other in terms of new experiences. I just wanted to experience everything with her. I wonder if it's a self-esteem thing, like I just don't value myself so I don't value my own company. In any case, although it sounds rational enough at first, I've realized that this is probably an unhealthy way to think because it keeps getting me into trouble. And the intense primary relationship thing comes in because I'm not really a social butterfly and I don't have a lot of friends, so when I find someone I feel like I can share a lot of things with they become everything to me and I just want to share everything with them. I'm sick of getting my heart broken. So being here at my aunts' place is really good, because I'm alone nearly all the time and I'm in a really safe, comfortable place with a big shaggy dog and a friendly cat and lots of big squishy couches and a beautiful backyard and all the sunshine I can handle, where being alone isn't depressing.

Anyway, if anyone else here has the same problem, I hope this helps them, because it seems like such a natural thing and it's really hard to see it as a problem. And if anyone here can add some insight, that would be really helpful, too. I've still got J's email running through my head and I know it's going to be a while before I can forget about it.

And good luck, candycane_girl.
candycane_girl
Well, it's Sunday. I've sent him the email but there hasn't been any response yet. I am going to be incredibly patient. I remember one time when we were going out and I wasn't able to see him on our regular day because my dad was visiting but I called is place a few times throughout the day and there was no answer and I was like, "Where the heck could he be?" Finally I called one last time and he told me that he had been out all day taking his bike out for the first time and seeing if it needed any kind of tune up before the warmer weather came.

I know that was one of our issues all along. I never have much going on but he's the kind of person who could literally be out all day so I would call and wonder why after a few hours he still hadn't returned my call. Anyway, I guess my point is that I'm not going to expect him to respond immediately. The absolute worst thing he could do is respond by saying that he changed his mind and he doesn't even want to meet up to talk but I am praying that doesn't happen.

((((epi)))) I think I would try to forcefully tell her that you do not want to receive any emails from her. If you haven't already, explain that you need time away from her if you are going to get to that point where you can be friends with her. It especially doesn't help that she's rubbing this new relationship in your face and acting like it's no big deal when it has obviously caused you a lot of pain, probably more so than if it had just been a regular breakup and you two were both single for a while.

As for always having someone in your life, maybe that's just how you are. It probably would be good to get used to enjoying your own company. I know that I like to have one day where I am completely, 100% alone and don't even leave my apartment. That might sound weird but it's like, I just need that time to myself and whether I'm just cooking dinner for myself or watching an old episode of Seinfeld, I enjoy it. Maybe you could start by doing something solitary like reading and work your way up to seeing a movie alone. I haven't done it that often but if you're going to do it I would suggest going to something a bit more dramatic or artsy rather than a comedy where everyone is there with friends. I saw Capote by myself and it was actually a great experience. None of my friends wanted to go see it so I decided to just go on my own.
Persiflager
((cc_girl)) You made it through 4 weeks without contacting him, well done! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

((epinephrine)) I think it's great that you have the clarity to know what you need, and you should alsolutely take care of yourself before working on the friendship. I think it's fair to ask her to stop emailing you. If she doesn't agree, I think it's ok to delete her emails unread, or set up your email account to automatically delete them. If you've warned her and made it clear that this is for your health and not out of spite, then I think that's reasonable.

(I make this suggestion just because it sounds as if you could get dragged into a long argument by email about whether or not you two should be emailing each other. You have the right to make a unilateral decision on this, and she should respect your needs. Be strong!)
candycane_girl
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! (that's me screaming with joy)

He agreed to give it another chance! I was sitting at my computer in the afternoon and I hadn't even showered and I get a call from a payphone. It was him saying that he was in my neighbourhood and he wondered if I would be willing to talk. At first he asked if I wanted to go to the park near my place and that made me think that he wanted to break it off for good (ie. maybe I couldn't get all upset and emotional if we were in a public place). Anyway, I told him that I would rather have him come into my apartment but I had to shower first so he had to wait 20 minutes.

I was totally freaking out while trying to get ready as fast as possible. He came up and we sat down and talked. At first it sounded like he wasn't really interested in getting back together but we kept talking and realized that we both wanted the same thing. Basically, we will go out on dates but we are not going to have a weekly date set in stone or anything. Also, I'm not going to call as much and if I call once and leave a message I will actually give him a chance to get back to me. We were both really adamant about not jumping right back into our old routine and just taking things really slowly. We both said that we don't want to repeat the same mistakes. So anyway, we won't be seeing each other as often but we will still be seeing each other and doing the same things we used to do.

ETA: I pointed out to him that there were numerous times that I wanted to call him or email him while we were apart but I didn't because I wanted to prove to him that I can give him space. He said that was good because he really needed that time and also if I had contacted him it would have made him feel like nothing would ever change. It was tough but I'm glad I stuck with it.

I asked him if he felt like sticking around because I was going to be making dinner soon and he said yes. So we went out so that I could return a video and pick up an ingredient for dinner and it was just so great. We had dinner and then things went on from there. He went home which I was fine with and now I'm just hanging out and enjoying myself.

I feel like I can finally breathe. He kept apologizing for putting me through so much and I know that it's going to be a bit difficult not seeing him very often at first but I'm happy that he's willing to work things out. Anyway, I just wanted to thank all you wonderful ladies. You were all so helpful and supportive of me and it was really comforting to have a place where I could just speak my mind. Thanks.
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