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auralpoison
Don't do it, Epi. I don't care if you're on fire or bleeding out your eyes, don't call her. Call somebody, anybody else. DO NOT CONTACT THIS PERSON.
stargazer
Yeah, don't do it, Epi.
auralpoison
I just wanted to re-post this as an adjunct to the, "For the love of Mike, don't fucking call her!" discussion. These are your OWN WORDS from nearly THREE MONTHS ago about how this person has/had been treating you.

YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW WHY YOU SHOULDN'T SEE/TEXT/IM/EMAIL/SNAILMAIL HER, NO MATTER WHAT EXCUSES YOU MAKE TO YOURSELF.

QUOTE(epinephrine @ May 14 2009, 11:37 AM) *
She held all the power in those months and she did a lot of flip-flopping with me. She did whatever she wanted and I'd always be there waiting for her. She claimed she wanted to be single but she never went as far as breaking up, she just kept me at arm's length. When she wanted space she'd be distant and when she was lonely I'd be there. Sometimes she'd be affectionate and loving and sometimes she'd be cold and indifferent. But whenever I wanted space, she missed me. She didn't break up with me until she'd already met someone else who'd be there when she got lonely. She claims she knew what she wanted all along and that was to be single, but I don't think she's got a ton of perspective on it yet. I mean, up until she told me she wanted to be single, she was the one pushing to move in and do all that couples stuff. I don't think she's as clear on what she wants as she thinks she is. She's a very impulsive, emotional girl, and she does a lot more doing than thinking. But now that it's over and I'm taking my space, she wants to talk to me and hang out all the time. I think she'd get mad at me for saying this and she'd tell me it's not true, but I really think she's just scared of being alone. It's fucked up, and she hurt me a lot being that way, but it's not my problem anymore.


Food for thought, no?

ETA: Since you haven't posted, is it safe to assume you did contact her? I know you've been 'round & posted elsewhere.
epinephrine
No, I didn't contact her. I'm glad you posted that bit that I wrote before, it really helped to give me some perspective. I didn't post because I just really needed to think about everything, about why I want to contact her and why I don't want to contact her. I'm still feeling extremely conflicted. I know she was horrible to me and I have every right to be angry at her, which makes me want to ignore her, but I really want to move past that, which makes me want to contact her. I don't want to be stuck in this resentful place with her forever. I want to make the best of what I've got, and I really hope that "the best" is better than just ignoring her and cutting her out of my life. I don't want things to stay negative, and I don't want to settle into neutral, either, by just forgetting about her and moving on. I want to eventually be in a positive place with her. I want to at least be friendly, if not friends.
angie_21
Epi, there's nothing wrong or selfish or ungrateful about just moving on with your own life and letting her move on with hers. You don't need to stay in touch with someone once the relationship has come to an end, just to feel that you are somehow being the better person or helping them out or whatever. She doesn't need your help or attention, and you certainly don't need hers. There is no need to be in a "positive place" with her (if it's even possible), only with yourself.

"Forgetting about her" and "moving on" are 2 different things. Keeping someone who hurts you out of your life in the present, does not mean you are pretending she never existed in the past. Sometimes, neutral can be a really really good thing, especially when you are clearly still so conflicted. Contacting her will not help you move past anything, it will only drag you both back into the past. There's no need to be friendly or be friends. Why do you still want that so bad?
auralpoison
My question here is not "why do you want it so badly" as much as it is "why do you want it so bloody soon"? You've not been broken up that long! You're clearly not healed or ready to be friends again. The fact that you are still putting so much thought into this & the fact that you are still so angry are good reasons not to push it. You're NOT ready & you cannot make this relationship good again by force. Only time & perspective can get you to a good place & that place may wind up being idling in neutral. Which isn't bad. I know you still care about this person, but re-read that paragraph I re-posted & ask yourself "why do I feel I must I have this person in my life & why rightfuckingnow"?

When there has been a bad break-up in my life, I draw an at least six month moratorium on contact & it's usually drawn out to a full year. Why? To give me time to grieve, heal, get over everything & re-evaluate whether or not the person is worth my friendship. I want to get myself to a place where I won't say anything I regret nor will I still have enough residual feelings to get sucked back in. And you know what? It works for me 100%.

Y'know, sometimes I want to kick the person that came up with the idea of "closure" square in the groin. Closure isn't a a guaranteed thing, sometimes it's just better to close that chapter out & move on. To remember the person, the situation as it was, learn from it, & keep on going. It doesn't negate things, but it sure makes life easier.
angie_21
Yeah, closure is a crock that someone made up in Cosmo, or as a plot device in romantic comdies so the characters would have an excuse to get back together. What exactly is this "closure" we need so bad? You may never know why someone else did what they did in a relationship , and it doesn't matter. What matters is the feeling of being yourself again and knowing why you did the things you did, and what you will do now. In my experiences, the only way to have that kid of closure is to slam the door shut and never look back. Sometimes it just has to be done. Maybe in a long time, once you've both grown and changed a bit, and are different people than when you were together, then maybe you can start anew with friendship. But staying in contact now will only keep the old relationship going, which is the opposite of what you're supposedly trying to do, epi.
candycane_girl
I've never fully understood the idea of closure. I mean, unless the breakup comes as a complete surprise then I would have to think that there wouldn't be too many unanswered questions. To me, closure is just both people saying "okay, it's over" and then never seeing each other again.

My brother is in a similar situation with his ex-girlfriend. They broke up just over a month ago and yet they keep talking and talking and talking because she needs "closure". It also drives me crazy that my brother is one of those people who always wants to try to be friends with an ex. I keep telling him that if he actually wants to be friends with her that he should not talk to her at all for at least a month.
auralpoison
And once again, Rudderless has said it so much better than the rest of us.
foryoursplendor
Thanks Rudderlesschild, that was wonderful.
pollystyrene
I don't know if this is the right thread for this, but I thought you ladies might have an interesting perspective on my question.

I've never broken up with anyone....actually, I take that back- my first boyfriend, also the only guy I dated in high school, who I dated for about a month my freshman year and when I decided I didn't like him (because he told racist jokes and had terrible oral hygiene!) Maybe it was just because it was high school and you talk to your friends about everything, but I told my two best friends that I wasn't happy and what they thought I should do. They said I should break up with him, but I didn't have the ovaries at the time to do it, so I just stopped talking to him. Avoided him at school, didn't take his calls. I still feel a little bad about it, but seeing as how he now goes by "Velveeta Gigolo" on MySpace, I'm glad I got out when I did.

Fast-forward to now- as an adult, when you break it off with your significant other, and I'm talking someone you're in a serious relationship with, maybe even married to- do you confide in your best friend(s) before you do it? LeBoy's prior girlfriend, who was my best friend, apparently had been feeling the relationship go south for months, and never mentioned anything to me about it. When she did break up with him, I was pissed off that she never said anything to me. Obviously, that ended up working out in my favor wink.gif

Tonight, I found out that one of my other best friends is getting divorced from her husband (ironically, she was one of the two bff's I asked for advice from back in high school!) She actually told him two weeks ago, the day before she went on vacation up in Michigan with their three kids, but we didn't find out until tonight. The four of us usually get together on Friday nights, and this would have been the first Friday night since she got back from vacation. I ended up getting last minute tickets to Lollapalooza, so LeBoy went to hang out at their house, and he gets there, and she and the kids aren't there. ohmy.gif

I know everyone's dynamic with their friends is different, but I was just shocked that it had happened in the first place, but feel a little hurt that I had no idea that she was unhappy. Apparently, she's been having an emotional affair with a friend of the husband for a few months. Eek. I haven't heard her side of the story yet. I'm just shocked and sad about it in general, not just because I didn't know, obviously- they're the first of our circle of friends to get divorced. sad.gif
kittenb
I tend to think of that song that goes, "Don't let me be the last to know." If I were unhappy with The Geek and considering leaving him I don't know that I would tell anyone but my very best friend. The reason isn't because I don't trust my other friends but because I hope I will continue to remember how much I respect him now and I would want to treat him with respect even if the love faded. I would not want others to know what was about to happen before he did.
I think some of you know that I had someone very close to me cheat on her husband. I swear the whole damn town knew before he knew about it. Since that happened I have refused to keep anyone's secrets about affairs. I will not be the person my friends' can confide it because I will not bear the weight of another lie. The Geek and I have actually discussed it. I told him that while I would be crushed if we broke up, it would be so much worse if he made a fool of me first and let our friends know that something was bad before I knew about it.
I think what your friend did was probably the most respectful way to handle a bad situation. sad.gif
pollystyrene
Yeah, I can see that, kitten. I think most people don't make a quick decision to leave their partners, and when they do make the decision it's due to being unhappy for awhile. So, while I can understand keeping what was her final decision private, I guess I feel like I wished she could have said something several months ago about the problems they were having. I would even have been understanding if she didn't say anything about the other guy, but I think she was unhappy before he came along, and then she went looking for him.

I'm going to get together with her some time this week to talk about stuff. I'm not sure how this will affect things. It's going to be a little weird if they don't work this out because they're both in my wedding party. unsure.gif
candycane_girl
I think that telling a friend you're having relationship troubles is different from telling a friend that you are going to leave your bf/husband. I definitely wouldn't want to be the last to know if someone was going to dump me. It would definitely make me feel like a fool that everyone knew before I did. However, it's a bit different if you go to your friend and say that you're having troubles and you're not sure what do do.

Also it just depends on the person. I mean, how private is she with regards to other aspects of her life?
angie_21
It would depend on a lot of things. The more serious the relationship, the more private you would have to keep the intimate details, out of respect. When I ended a 3 year relationship, I didn't tell anyone but my mom beforehand, then called my best friend to tell her as I was driving away from his house. Long term breakups are weird, you never know if the breakup will be successful.
ketto
I was kind of thinking about this recently. I feel like when I was younger I used to share so much more about the guys I was dating or the relationships I was in with my friends. Now we hardly ever talk about stuff like that. I think the change is due to 2 things. 1) We're older. Before, relationships were new, dating was new, and comparing stories and dispensing advice just felt...right. and 2) Pretty much what Kitten said. Now most of my friends are in long term committed relationships and have a lot of respect for their partners.

Recently I was looking back at old journals from the time with my first serious boyfriend (when I was...18...19) and I couldn't believe how it was just full of me saying how unsure I was of us and things I wished would change. I remember sharing all that stuff with my friends too and constantly venting about what I should do. It makes me cringe, not because the stuff I was saying wasn't true, but because I didn't have the respect or courage to tell him first or discuss our problems directly.
culturehandy
Closure is a fucking joke. I tried to get "closure" with my ex and ended up in the back of a police car because of it.

Very well put Rudderless.
odysseylily
Thanks, Persi. I still think he's being a jerk though. He didn't say he would contact me in a while when he was over things, he didn't even say he might. He mailed my keys to me, said he would never speak to me again, and forbade me from contacting him, all after he had begged me to still be friends. I would probably agree with you except that this has been the pattern even when we were together, you know what I mean? He called all the shots and was only there for me when it was convenient for him. I have seen him do this to other friends before - when he moved in with me he simply stopped contacting all his old friends in his old town, didn't even say goodbye. He can be extremely cold sometimes. I broke down and cried a lot yesterday thinking about all this. I have to move back to the city soon and live in my old apartment and my stomach hurts whenever I think about it. I'm trying to stay busy but I am really upset about moving back. It's going to hurt a lot.
odysseylily
I'm sorry, Stereotypical . . . that's rotten. I'd just like to underscore what other people have said - even if he didn't sleep with other women, it sounds like he was not making you feel loved, not by a long shot. The whole making fun of your body thing really sucks. He sounds like a fuckwad to me.

Epi - I think she keeps contacting you precisely because the no contact is doing you a lot of good. She sounds like the type of person who needs to feel like she's got people at her beck and call in order to keep her self-esteem up, and when you get over her that'll be a blow to her self-esteem, so she's trying to keep ripping that wound open to delay your healing. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh and I don't think she's doing it consciously; people rarely do stuff like that consciously. But it sounds like that instinctive underlying behavior is there.
stereotypical
(Rudderlesschild)

Whenever I'm thinking about my situation over and over until I feel like I can come up with explantions that will satisfy me, I think and repeat in my head the things you have written. It seems to help me from fixating on it. So, thank you.

Sometimes this is all abnormally easy, which scares me a little. Then I have a bad day when I can't remember anything and I'm still scared.



period_monster
E-man and I ended things a few hours ago. I managed to get about three hours of sleep. Honestly, it was the most civil and mature breakup of my life. I managed to remain calm and retain my dignity. I keep thinking it will really hit me. We were only together a few months, but I have never liked someone I dated nearly so much. Just needed to vent for a moment. Maybe typing these words will allow me to really believe that it transpired. It was just a bit bizarre. We went from being in the foreplay mode to breaking up within only a few short minutes. Now I need to find myself a new fuck.
futura
(((((Period)))))I remember you posting about dating this guy. I'm so sorry.
period_monster
Thanks Futura. He wasn't meeting my needs and I told him so. We both were upset about very similar things. I said I was willing to keep trying if he was. He waffled until I finally told him that he needed to stop wasting my time. I feel pretty stupid because I fell for him really hard. I'm taking today to regroup before getting back to work and my life. Unfortunately, my two besties irl are out of town this weekend. But my older sister listened to me cry and then as we were talking, I realized that many things are going well for me right now, both professionally and personally. I'm getting right back into the game. I want someone who will fulfill my needs for time, attention, and affection. It sucks, but I am glad that I found this out now 4 months in and not later down the road. Trying very hard to stay positive about the whole thing. Just went out and bought a bottle of my favorite wine, gonna watch a movie and sleep hard.

((((((other busties dealing with former partners))))))
anna k
I'm sorry that it ended like that, period_monster. From what you had written before, it sounded like an exciting and fun relationship, and it's best if you take that with you instead of dwelling on the worst. That's really awesome that you have so much good going for you right now, and I hope you feel OK tonight and not too hard on yourself. I'm glad your sister was there for support.
squirrelgirl88
I'm not used to putting my personal problems out in the open, so I'm a little nervous...

Barely a week ago, my four year long relationship ended. I'm still reeling. Although I wasn't entirely shocked, I didn't expect it to end so soon. There were many reasons for our break-up but the major one was the lack of spark, of chemistry (especially sexual). These feelings had dwindled over the past year. I don't expect to get over a four year relationship in a week but I did expect some of the melancholy to subside. I also expected him to be feeling at least a portion of the hurt I was feeling but when we spoke this afternoon (we promised each other to continue being friends, as we are each other's best friend) it seemed as though he's fine. He may be hiding his emotions, like he did during our relationship, but it only hurts more to know that sooner or later he will be with some girl and I will most likely be alone.

How do I get over him? I've never had to get over someone while still being their friend. But not being his friend is not an option. We go to the same college and have many of the same friends. Besides, I can't imagine my life without him.

Help?
odysseylily
I'm dropping in to tell everybody I'm doing better than I was in my last post . . . I'm taking a vacation with my family and I have some new crushes. I'm planning on being single for awhile so I can be choosy about who I end up with. I'm still sad but there's some relief right now, so that's good.

Squirrelgirl, that's really too bad. My ex just ended a 4.5 year relationship and I didn't see it coming at all, so I can feel where you're coming from. We are not having any contact with each other and in all likelihood never will (his choice, not mine). I totally understand what you're saying about needing to be friends with him, but for your own health and eventual happiness I'm encouraging you to let yourself heal before being real friends again. Now is your time to branch out and make some friends that aren't his too. Just something to consider.

How're you doing Epinephrine??
epinephrine
Hey, Odyssey! I'm glad you're doing well. Family vacations rock. Family in general rocks. I could never have got through my breakup without my family. I've relied on my mom for support, my brother for friendship, my aunts for hope, and my dependable dad for some semblance of normalcy during this time of chaos. I'm doing ok. Well, actually, I'm doing pretty good. I've got a new job at a health food store that I love, which improves my outlook dramatically. My last job paid more, but I just loathed and despised it and I'm so glad I got fired. I'd prefer to have quit, but whatever. I got more of the asshole boss's money this way. I have a lot more in common with my coworkers at my new job than I did at the other place, and there's more potential for some real socializing, which I've been utterly deprived of since I moved here. I haven't made a single friend in 2 months. I haven't done any socializing whatsoever. I'm kind of a wallflower at the best of times, but after such a casastrophic blow to my confidence I've gone from shy to reclusive, and I'm desperate to start connecting with people again. On my mom's suggestion, I've started going to Al-Anon meetings. I've seen how much her AA meetings are doing for her, and I'm hoping to learn some things that will help me deal with all the shit in my life right now. And it's also a start on the whole connecting-with-people thing. I actually went to a great meeting last week where the topic was resentment, and it was the first time that I really realized that that's what I've been putting all my energy into for the past few months, and it's such an enormous waste of my peace and energy, and it was so easy to let go of some of that resentment when I realized that. I thought less about J in the 2 days after that meeting than I have since we broke up. The resentment eventually came creeping back, of course, but at least I got to taste some peace and I learned a little more about how to heal. And the Al-Anon people are all so warm and welcoming, too. It's so nice to be able to say what I want and not worry about being judged. And I'm always the youngest person at the meeting, so a lot of people approach me and it's that much easier to find someone to talk to.

J emailed me again a few days ago. This time, she wanted to let me know that the Pixies are playing Seattle in November, knowing that I'm an absolutely rabid fan and I'd do anything to see them. I guess she's trying to get under my skin now. God, this is an uncomfortable situation. I know there's a part of her that legitimately wants to make things better and to just be in a good place with me again, but if she really respected me she'd be letting me make the decision for myself and she wouldn't be trying to make it for me by pestering me with emails until I give in and engage. She doesn't respect me, and she doesn't take me seriously. If she did, things would not have turned out the way they did. She wouldn't have strung me along the way she did, letting me think I was in a relationship with her as she distanced herself from me more and more. She wouldn't have treated me so badly and made me feel so defective all the time. She wouldn't have started fucking one of my friends 2 days after we broke up. If she really respected me, she would never have been able to live with any of those things. She would have found a way to be fair. But maybe I'm just projecting my own morals onto her. I thought it was just common sense that one doesn't do those things to people one respects, but apparently she doesn't feel the same way. Well, there's that resentfulness again...

It occurred to me that her birthday is less than a month away. That will be a bit of a watershed in our breakup. I can't see myself feeling too differently about contacting her by that point. I don't plan to email her or send her a card or anything. Everyone's made such valid points. Rudderless summed it up beautifully. But, to be honest, I still have doubts. I still worry that I'm just psyching myself out and building up the issue by avoiding her. I'm just scared that all the issues will snowball and by the time we eventually have contact again, which we inevitably will when I go back home to my apartment next door to hers, things will get even more fucked up. I know how much you all hate hearing me talk like that, but there it is. That's such a source of anxiety for me - that I'm just doing everything wrong, that everything could be going better if I did something different, but it could also be worse - and I just torture myself with the what ifs. I'm still feeling pretty lost. Three months hasn't made much of a dent in that.

(((squirrelgirl))) That sucks. hope you're doing better. Keep reading and posting here - if anything, it'll at least fill up the time you'd otherwise spend thinking of your ex! And my favourite advice to give to sad people is to paint your toenails an obnoxious colour. It's amazing how much ridiculous toenail polish can distract you from your sad thoughts and brighten your day!
squirrelgirl88
Thanks for the advice Epinephrine and Odyssey. I am painting my nails firetruck red at this very moment.

I totally agree with you, Epinephrine; my family has been my rock during this past week. My mother and father have dealt with my crying and complaining and moodiness with love and acceptance. They're even planning a spontaneous trip to Seattle for a few days. Well, the trip was in the works before the break-up but now it seems extremely needed. I've even been texting my cousin in D.C. for advice and a little much-needed bitching. I don't think I've ever appreciated them more.

I'm worried about becoming bitter. I don't want to look at him differently but his behavior makes me think, "Is this really the same person I was in a relationship with?" Granted, he may just be saying things to puff up in front of his man-friends and his male family members, but its making me feel pathetic for having to take a while to get over. I feel like after four years, he could at least hurt a little bit, right?
Persiflager
((squirrelgirl88)) Nice nails!

I'm sure he is hurting, but dealing with it in a different way to you. Also, if it was his call, he's had longer to get used to the idea. He might be trying to put a bit of emotional space between you two, which could be a good idea at the moment. I don't think he's doing it to hurt you.

((epinephrine)) You are absolutely doing the right thing! J sounds thoughtless and inconsiderate. And congratulations on the new job smile.gif

((odysseylily)) Yay for crushes! I lurk in the crush thread for vicarious thrills, so will watch out for your updates. wink.gif
Persiflager
A pair of Croatian artists have set up the Museum of Broken Relationships - weird but moving. Is anyone tempted to get rid of some painful memories and help make art?
odysseylily
Hey busties,

I've been dreaming about my ex literally every night and it's really bringing me down. Last night I dreamed that we were hanging out and having an awesome time and he was clearly still in love with me. Before last night's dream I would just dream that he sent me a text message or something, getting back in contact with me.

The fact is I miss him very much and hate that he won't talk to me. I know it's a permanent arrangement because this is just how he lives his life. Cuts people out instead of fixing things. I saw him do this to some of his friends over the course of our relationship, so I should have known it was inevitable that he would do the same to me, but I truly believed that after 4.5 years of the amazing love we shared he would have some lasting feelings for me.

I remember a few years ago, right before we moved, we went into a shop and the clerk was apparently some friend or acquaintance of his and she greeted him by name, "Hey P." And all he would say back to her was "P is dead." It really bothered me at the time and it bothers me even more now because I can tell that's how he sees me, as just some relic from a past life that didn't work out.

It's a lot to process through and I guess that's why I'm having these dreams, but I really really wish it would stop. I've got to go now cause I'm still on vacay with my family, but does anyone have any thoughts about this?
Persiflager
((odysseylily))

That's really rotten (I'm sorry, I didn't realise how bad it was before).

I think it does show how much he feels for you, in a twisted sort of way - I think he's hurting so much that he can't bear to be reminded of you.

If this is a pattern for him, then he's probably not going to change his mind, especially as his relationship with you was more significant than the other people he cut out of his life.



epinephrine
Odysseylily, that really sucks. I've been dreaming about my ex lately, too. A couple of dreams reflected the current state of things - awkwardness, resentment, a broken connection - but a couple of dreams recalled happier times. And I think I had a sex dream about her, too. I do not need this. I wish I knew how to stop it. I was taking a herbal supplement that I think was giving me strange dreams, so I stopped. Last night I didn't manage to sleep till 2:30, but I didn't dream, thank god. But I think Persiflager's right - his behaviour indicates anything but indifference. He wouldn't be doing what he's doing if he wasn't in pain.

Persiflager, that site was really cool. Gave me a bit of a different perspective on some things. Thanks! If I were to submit items to that exhibit, I'd probably give them the memory jar, a gift my ex gave me for our first anniversary when I told her we'd done so much together and we needed some souvenirs to remember it all by so all our happy times wouldn't just become an indistinct blur. It was a little jar filled with little slips of paper with a memory of things we'd done together typed on each one. And she papier mached the jar with a collage of different coloured hearts. I burst into tears when she gave it to me. It's the sweetest, most thoughtful gift I've ever been given. The last time I saw her it was still at her place, so I took it with me. She told me I could throw it out if I wanted to.
epinephrine
I'm having a bad day. I woke up angry, and I've been stewing in resentment all day, and I don't know how to stop. I wish I could see my counsellor back home. I want so badly to be able to develop a more serene, accepting attitude about everything that happened with J. I wish I could just accept the fact that she made some mistakes, and I made some mistakes, and that shit happens and we were breaking up anyway before A came along, and that it's over and my life is better now and I should be happy about that. But then I think about all the horrible things she said to me, the way she made me feel weak and defective all the time, the way she constantly picked fights, the way she kept me segregated from her friends like some embarrassing secret. I had so much faith and trust in her that I just couldn't even see what was really going on, and she used that faith and trust against me to make me think I was the one causing the problems. And she just wouldn't let me go until she'd found someone else to make her feel special. And that had happened earlier, only it didn't work out with the other girl, so she stayed with me, like some kind of last resort. I thought she was the love of my life, and she turned out to be a fucking monster. I feel...utterly eviscerated. It's been three fucking months and I still have no peace. Everything reminds me of her. Every fucking song on the radio. Every item of clothing that she gave me. Crossword puzzles. My ID card that still has her address on it from when we lived together. I can't have a single happy memory of her without feeling all the pain she caused me all over again, let alone an unhappy memory.

Fuck. I just feel awful today.
sybarite
(((Epinephrine))) I'm so sorry you're feeling so awful. I have to say, from what you've said here before, that your anger is IMO completely justified. I think feeling it now, allowing it to come to the surface as it were, is the start of processing it--which probably doesn't help the way you feel now at all, but may help you to heal.

In the meantime is there a punching bag you can work out with for a while? (Not entirely a facetious suggestion...) Hang in there.
epinephrine
Thanks, Sybarite. I'm feeling a little better today. Not 100%, but a little better. I went and did an intense workout right after posting that and it really helped. Unfortunately I don't have a punching bag, and there don't seem to be any martial arts or fitness classes of any kind in Saskatoon in the summer, but come September I plan on enrolling in something. I'm having such a hard time meeting people, and that's one more resource, plus being a major outlet for frustration. I think my distress is partly due to PMS. When I'm already fragile, PMS is enough to put me completely over the edge, and just amplifies everything and makes me into an emotional freak. I cry about everything - dog food commercials, intense songs...

I'm just sick of being angry. I want to move on with my life and stop feeling like this. And I don't have a clue how to do that. I won't ever have real peace until I forgive her, but I just can't. She fucked me over so, so badly. And she got away with it. She's out there having a great time with her wonderful new girlfriend, feeling so pleased with herself for "making the right decision" (her words - seriously), and I'm left trying to sort out this huge mess that she left me with. She made all the mistakes, and I was always the one to pay the price.

Ugh. I know I'm being a huge victim. Someone please tell me how to stop?
period_monster
((((the broken-hearted))))

All in all, I've been taking my recent breakup in stride. However, I received some family news on Friday that made me miss e-man horribly. I realized that he was the only person I had spoken to about the issue. And mostly it just made me mad at him. But I do miss him. Even though I went for a hike with a perfectly charming man this morning.

I have to stay strong and not contact him. I just can't admit in real life that I miss him. But I do. And I wish so much that things had worked out differently. I am still pleased that he exists in the world. I just wish he existed in mine, even if the last couple weeks between us were rather horrid.

end vent. Thanks for listening.
epinephrine
God dammit. I was just looking at my friend's profile on Facebook and happened to glance at the pictures of his friends on the side, and the first thing I see is J's face. On A's profile picture. They looked very happy.

Fuck. I feel sick. This isn't healthy. I don't know what to do with myself. What I'm doing now is clearly not working. Living like they don't exist would only work if I could actually make them disappear. All I'm doing is running away. And I can't run much longer; I'll be moving back home in less than 2 months. Back next door to J. And A, too, as she probably has the fucking keys to the place now. The ones that I used to have.

What I'm feeling isn't even jealousy anymore; I don't miss J. I think she's an asshole and I resent that her horrible choices have made her happy. And I think A is a terrible friend and I resent that her horrible choices have made her happy. Every time I think about where they are, and where I am, I think, you two are such assholes that you clearly deserve each other. But you don't deserve to be happy. And I've worked so hard to do the right thing all along and this is what I get.

This is fucked. I feel like I'm only getting worse. I need help.
kittenb
QUOTE
This is fucked. I feel like I'm only getting worse. I need help.


I agree that it is time for some outside intervention. How do you feel about seeing a counselor? I can't remember if you are a student and I don't know if you have health insurance but there are often low(er) cost community options that you might benefit from. If you need help finding a place, let me know. No promises, but I might ba able to locate something in your area. I used to do that as a job and I got pretty good at it.

And I encourage you to reach out to other threads on Bust. There are a lot of fun conversations going on that you are invited to join. It might help distract you.

Good luck! smile.gif
sevenseconds
((((((((((((((epi))))))))))))))

*deleted*

(giving you an awesome long and sexy foot massage; )
sevenseconds
epi -

I feel like I should apologize - my last post was perhaps insensitive. I can be quite compulsive when an issue moves me.
I really meant well, but I realize we are all different. That first wrenching feeling that there is only one person on planet earth that can make me feel anything, and they're gone, gah, I am so bad with that. So I tend to dive into a pair of hot arms to make it stop make it stop make it stop, and when it fades a bit, I can face my own shite and process and deal... Unhealthy, I know. But you gotta do what you gotta do to keep from slitting your wrists.
Anyway, just wanted to add the disclaimer that I am deeply and convolutedly fucked up. So my advice is similarly flawed.

Also, wanted to apologize to everyone if I sound harsh or weird sometimes. I can be deceivingly fluent in this language, but I've noticed I totally mess up with some shades of urging v/s suggesting and words that imply assumed closeness/distance with the person I'm addressing. So I am sorry if I come across as in your face too much. Feel free to tell me to fuck off.

Rock on, Busties wub.gif

7s
rogue
Hello Busties....first off let me say to all of you in this thread who are going through some heartache that I send along my support and a big e-hug to all of you. I by no means want to derail this thread from any of my fellow Busties that have been posting here but I'm feeling a little bit lost.

For the past month-and-a-bit I have been dealing with the end of a long-term relationship as well and it's been pretty difficult. I have good days and bad days and I know that I should only have good days from here on out because it was a very abusive relationship (both emotionally/verbally and sexually abusive) but for some reason I am having a really hard time. I don't want to get back together with him but it's just really difficult for me to want to "go on" after all this and I don't remember an end of a relationship ever affecting me this way.

I guess I'm just wondering where to go from here and the first place I thought of coming back to was Bust. The guy I was with was very unsupportive and would regularly bash my internet ventures - Bust being one of them - which is why I have been MIA for a long time around here. This place has always been kind of a safe haven for me and for a lot of us, I think, so I just wanted to get back to it. I don't know what I'm really wanting from this forum but I guess I just wanted to say that I'm in this weird end-of-relationship place as well and that I am here if anyone ever wants to just let it out. You are all amazing. =)
odysseylily
Hey busties,
Well, I'm moving back to my apartment tomorrow, where my ex still lives across the street as far as I know. I'm really overwhelmed with memories and missing him and feeling bad. I think about how epically in love we used to be and how that dwindled to nothing on his end. I don't get it. I was a good girlfriend.

I understand having a hard time, rogue. My ex was emotionally abusive toward the end too. I guess I mainly wish he would admit it, rather than act like it was all my fault or we just didn't "match." We did match, and damn well, but he is bipolar and won't get help for it and picked our relationship to pieces. My secret wish is that he would get the help he needs and we would get back together. Pathetic, but true. I haven't been affected this way by the end of a relationship either. I feel really tired. There are no thoughts of finding someone else, I just feel like I will be alone, like love is not worth the heartache. Dating and hooking up, maybe, but I can't see myself in a long term relationship.

I honestly think that the reason I am still hung up on this guy, even in the face of his mental instability, is that I want him to admit he was wrong. When we split up he sent me some idiot comment about "even the most beautiful love dying," and all I could think was, "our love didn't die. you killed it."

Well, that turned into kind of a rant . . .
Epinephrine, how are you doing??? I just want to say, I would be doing a million times worse than I am if it weren't for counseling and (hopefully temporary) antidepressants. My parents are paying for it, actually, which sucks but I can't afford it on my own and I was really, really doing badly - scaring myself. Do you think you can do some counseling?
epinephrine
Hey, Odyssey. Good luck with your move. I'll be in the same boat as you in about 7 weeks. I think you should paint the place some really nice colours that make you happy and put up lots of nice pictures. When I moved into my current place in December after my initial breakup with J I alleviated some of my depression by painting my place outrageous colours; my living room is deep plum, my hallway is lime green, and my bedroom is white and cranberry with black and white bedsheets and accessories and dark wood furniture. I actually made a video of it - I should post it online and link it to the House of the Gods thread. Anyway, it was very theraputic, and made me feel a lot less shitty about my living situation. Oh, and get lots of plants and a fishtank. They're both proven to calm your nerves and improve your mood and general well-being.

I totally relate to what you said about wanting him to admit that he's the one that fucked up; that's pretty much all I want from J. It just fucking kills me that she can stand there and tell me we "weren't right for each other" when I'm the same person she fell in love with and she's the one who changed, who got new friends and decided we couldn't be together if I didn't fit in with them, who constantly picked fights with me, who completely shut me out and then said we couldn't connect because I'm "too opinionated." It kills me that she made all the mistakes and I'm the one who ended up paying for them. I hope one day she looks in the mirror and feels as empty as I do when I look at pictures of us when we were together. I hope one day she realizes how much she fucked up and hates herself for it. But she probably never will.

I'm doing a little better than I was last post. I've been having the most wretched, violent mood swings lately, worse than any teen angst, PMS or birth control side effect I've ever had. I'll be fine for a while, and then something will trigger me and suddenly I'll just be completely off the deep end. On my bad days I feel like I'm swimming in resentment. I've started going to Al-Anon again. I found a meeting I like, right downtown in the middle of the day, where seem to be more people my age. Everybody seems to get so much out of the program - I need what they have. It's all about letting go of the things you can't control, letting go of resentment and anger, giving yourself permission to walk away from unsatisfactory situations, and moving on with your life. It's all totally relevent to me; I just have trouble relating to people in the group a lot of the time because I'm usually the only one under 50, and the only one who's (openly) queer. It's much more conservative here than my hometown, which has taken some getting used to. I'm never sure what'll happen if I out myself. I went to a meeting today where the topic was step 4, letting go of all your old pain and anger and problems and leaving them in the hands of your "higher power" (in whichever sense you understand that to be). I had a really good talk with my mom, too, who's doing the same steps in the Alcoholics Anonymous program. I'm trying to focus on just not worrying about J right now; all my anger is hurting nobody but me. It's so easy to get trapped in anger because it makes you feel powerful, and it's like crack when you're feeling powerless, like J made me feel. But ultimately it doesn't get you anywhere. Nobody ever moved on because of anger.

I'm going to keep looking for a counsellor, but I'm not covered by any insurance right now and I don't know where to get free counselling other than my college, which is two provinces away. My counsellor will be the first person I call when I'm back home in October. The going hourly rate for a counsellor is almost two days' pay for me, so paying for counselling like everyone else is totally out of the question. I tried to pass myself off as a student at the local university when I first got here so I could get career counselling, but I needed a valid student number to pull it off, and I didn't manage.
rogue
((((Odyssey & epi))))

I hope you are both doing all right today. I am better than I was yesterday, although not the best. I am glad that you can both understand where I am coming from, especially from how you seem to be in the same boat. I totally feel that my ex was the one who messed things up; he changed, he wasn't the one that I fell in love with anymore, he picked fights and called me names and belittled me, not the other way around. I stayed the same. I know it's easy to say that but I honestly believe that I haven't changed since we got together two years ago. Obviously people grow and adjust to things every day but I haven't changed who I was inside, really. The only thing I changed was that I became weaker because of him. I lost who I was. I gave up friends and people I had known for years just to make him feel less insecure about himself. And now I might have lost people because of that. It's no excuse; I didn't have to do that, I could have given him up for my friend and I didn't. I made the choice and now I can only hope that some of the people I lost will return to me with enough apologizing.

I don't have any love other than the friendly kind left for this man. He went through a lot during his childhood and adolescence that made him mistrustful of women, but that did not give him any excuse to do what he did to me. He says he realizes this now and has "changed" (in only a month's time, no less) but I can't believe him. I can't trust him enough to give him another chance. I flip-flop back and forth with wanting to be with him or not but I know this is just because I am terrified that I will end up like my mother and my grandmother - alone for years and years. I don't even know if I want to be married or settle down or all that but it would just be nice to have someone to share things with. And I think that's the big picture for me.

I really hope that things start looking up for everyone in this thread. epi, I really hate how counselling is so expensive; I just have to say that. I think it sucks that you can't go because one sessions is too much of a cost for you. You mentioned your college is two provinces away - do you live in Canada? If so, would any form of counselling be covered under provincial health care? I only ask because I am in Nova Scotia and I *think* (but I don't know for sure) that a pyschiatrist would be covered under our provincial MSI. Just a thought. I hope that you can get something figured out.

Try and keep your chins up. =)
Persiflager
((rogue)) Welcome back, and congratulations on leaving the relationship - it's not easy, especially when he was abusive.

((odysseylily)) Good luck with the move, and I hope you don't see your ex. Is there any way you can get a friend to find out if he still lives there, just so you can get a heads-up?

((epinephrine)) God, what a rotten situation. I almost hesitate to post because you're in so much pain I don't know how to help.

I had a couple of semi-constructive thoughts about what you could do:

1) You could write her a lengthy letter to get out all the anger and resentment, and burning it along with a few choice memories.

2) You could advertise in the local paper/ online for other people to meet up and join a 'Talk shit about my asshole ex' club.

3) You could write out the conversation you wish you could have with her, with the J that you knew. Not one where she necessarily apologises and agrees to take you back, but where you write out the painful, honest truths that you need to hear and wish she'd said. What could she say now that would help you move on?

4) Check the local library for self-help books - I think How to Survive the Loss of a Love is the one that has been recommended before, and my friend found very helpful.

I think you're doing really well - I know it doesn't feel like it, but your posts are a lot more positive that a few months ago. Al-Anon sounds brilliant, your self-awareness about anger is really healthy, and I think you made a great decision to move away for the summer.

About the resentment - feel free to kick me for saying this, but I don't think J fucked up. She changed, and she fell out of love with you - it happens! It's nobody's fault, and there's nothing you can do about it. She didn't make a choice to fall in love with you, either, but it happened. Be pissed at her for the crappy way she handled it, but there's no point being angry about something she had no control over.

Sorry, I know it's not as easy as saying 'don't be angry!'. But at some point you are going to have to accept that she DID make the right decison - it would have been a lot easier if you had been the one to make it (which, if I remember correctly, you were planning to do), but it's still right.
ketto
QUOTE(epinephrine @ Sep 1 2009, 12:14 AM) *
I'm going to keep looking for a counsellor, but I'm not covered by any insurance right now and I don't know where to get free counselling other than my college, which is two provinces away. My counsellor will be the first person I call when I'm back home in October. The going hourly rate for a counsellor is almost two days' pay for me, so paying for counselling like everyone else is totally out of the question. I tried to pass myself off as a student at the local university when I first got here so I could get career counselling, but I needed a valid student number to pull it off, and I didn't manage.


Just to add on to what Rogue said, have you looked to see if there's any community counselling or women's centres in your area? The Women's Centre I work at does counselling exclusively for women, and we also have 1time or Crisis appointments you can get into ASAP. All our services are free and I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one similar place where you are.
epinephrine
Ketto, I'd actually thought of that, but I did a quick search when I first got here and only managed to find a centre for immigrant women. I'll definitely try again and dig a little deeper this time.

Persiflager, thank you so much for the different perspective. That's the kind of stuff that helps me feel less like a victim. But all the same, the falling out of love I could forgive. It's the cold way she treated me, the manipulation, the utter lack of respect, that I'm bent out of shape about. It's a long, exhausting story, and I don't want to get too far into it before bed or I'll never be able to sleep, but it went like this: back in October, when we'd been together about a year and a half, she started acting really strange all of a sudden and it continued for 3 or 4 days before she sat me down at 1 in the morning and broke up with me. We talked about it till 4, and I was shocked and devastated, but the whole conversation had been respectful and civilized and I just thought, well, I love her, and I want her to be happy, and what's best for her is best for me, so we've gotta do what we've gotta do. And I just resolved to make our breakup as loving and respectful as our relationship had been. The next day she came home and she was like a completely different person. She was so cold and indifferent to me, to the huge bomb she'd just dropped on me, and she said some really harsh things that were just not at all in line with the friendly breakup we'd agreed on. And it just continued that way. We were living together and continued to have discussions about what had happened and where we were, and somehow, in this environment, we decided (or I was somehow given the impression) that we'd just take a step back and I'd move out and we'd continue the relaionship. I trusted that she respected me, that she'd never do anything to hurt me, and that whatever she did would work out for the best because of our mutual respect and care for each other. She just kept treating me worse and worse and every time I confronted her on it she'd basically tell me that I was imagining things. And I trusted her, so I believed her. And I just kept trusting her and trusting her right until the end. Now I feel like I finally see what was going on that whole time and I've never felt so betrayed. I always put everything on the table with her and I trusted that she was doing the same, but now I know that she wasn't. It's been more than just a breakup; it's been a huge, horrible paradigm shift. I thought love - real, honest love - would be fair. So now I know that either love isn't fair, or that this love just wasn't as real and honest as I thought it was.

I like your suggestions - I've been thinking about a letter, but I've been too scared of getting carried away. I think I'll have to do it, though. It seems like the best way to get all my thoughts out there for examination. And I'll definitely check the library for that book!

Sevenseconds, stop worrying! Your post was fine! I wasn't offended at all. I really enjoy reading your posts, actually. I like your writing. I've thought about the possibility of a rebound, but it's just not my style. And I wouldn't wish my emotional freakshow on anybody right now. Thanks for the foot massage, though.

I'm ok with being single. I've never been the kind of person who's always in a relationship, though I definitely prefer serious relationships to casual ones. I just don't like to waste my time with someone I don't really want to be with. If I can't see some serious potential in someone, I don't date them. I have dated casually before, but they've been experiences I'd rather forget. Right now, all I want is some friends. This post-breakup stage would be going so much better for me if I was having some fun, but that's kind of the problem with fleeing to a strange town - you don't know anybody. Don't get me wrong, I've got it good over here - great job, living with family in a beautiful big house in a nice neighbourhood - I just have a very small world over here with nobody to talk to and go out with, and when your world is small your problems are much, much bigger. Moving here has done nothing for me in that sense. I'm trying to have fun on my own, but that can only expand my world so much. I need people. Paradoxically, that need for people has kept me pretty much chained to my computer when I'm not at work, as my entire social life is online right now. Ugh. On to the Socially Inept Dork thread...
odysseylily
Oh god. I'm fairly sure I just saw my ex. Don't know if he saw me. As soon as I saw someone who kind of looked like him, I averted my eyes - immature, perhaps, but the only way I can really survive this. So I don't even know if it was him. But I'm shaking now. I'm assuming that this will happen again, since this is only my first full day in town, so if anybody has any suggestions on how to quell these freakouts I'd appreciate them. Right now I'm sniffing lavender oil and trying to breathe deeply but it's not really helping.

Persiflager, a couple days ago a mutual friend told me she tried to get in touch with him and he had apparently changed his number (probably flattering himself that I would try to contact him). That's the only mutual friend, though, really, so I'm not sure what else to do. He said he'd be gone by mid-October, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time he's made plans and then backed out of them.

I still think about him all the time. Being back here, in my apartment, is either really helpful or really saddening. Although I think it might ultimately be better than being in our hometown, where we had REALLY good memories. Here is where most of the shit hit the fan so I'm able to realize how much less stress I'm facing now. The bad parts are cooking, mainly - I love to cook and we used to cook decadent meals together almost every night, then get drunk and watch the x files. Cooking is really sad without him, so is watching the x files and thinking of the snarky comments we'd be making to each other if he were here. I really need to hang out with friends, like every night. Today I had a sudden burst of compassion for him, just hoping that he is okay and happy and healthy and stuff. Which is weird because it's mostly been rage. But I do truly love him, and deep down I want him to have a really good life. That's what the man I knew deserves. Is this crazy? He broke my heart and treated me like shit, and I still want the best for him . . . maybe because I know he didn't ask to be bipolar and it makes him miserable so often.

Cripes I am still shaky and I guess that's why I'm rambling . . . I'm going to give my best friend a call & hopefully he'll pick up. I'm going to leave you ladies with one more question: I'm young (that's what they tell me anyway) but I've definitely had a lot of relationships, both casual and serious, and quite a bit of NSA sex. And yet I have never met anyone I've loved so deeply, or been so attracted to, as my ex. I feel like that sort of thing only comes around once a lifetime, but I sure hope I'm wrong. How many people have you guys been insanely attracted to? With my ex we pretty much couldn't keep our hands off each other. He was always, always the one I fantasized about too, even after we had been together for a long time. I want to have that again someday with someone. So I ask: is it a once in a lifetime deal, or does it happen more than once?

Epinephrine, a question for you - do you HAVE to move back to your apartment that's right next to J? Just cause, with what I'm going through now, I can tell you it would be more pleasant to live pretty much anywhere else.
odysseylily
Gah. I know that was a fairly sad & dramatic last post. I'm still all sad & stuff. I don't know what's wrong with me. It's hard being back here. Too many memories.
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