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epinephrine
Must relay some rather satisfying news I heard about my ex today: apparently she met someone else when she was in Hong Kong last winter and is no longer with the "friend" she left me for. J really is an amoral player. And A got what was coming to her. Ha!
snow white
wow, i'm reading alot about cutting someone out of your life/being cut out, silent treatment, ect...

two days ago i packed up my boyfriend's ("C") clothes ect... and put them in his work space (our downstairs) to pick up. it was final effort to say "i'm not playing, we need to talk". he just came and took ALL of his belongings from the house, had a trailer and everything that day to move. it was un-nerving how happy he seemed to leave, i guess he's trying to spite me with that attitude but it just blows my mind that he wouldn't come upstairs and finally say "wtf is going on?!?!"

we've been having problems all summer, everytime i go to C to "talk about it" (what every guy dreads) he would give me the silent treatment and sometimes take off for the night, not coming home. i felt like i was going crazy, either he's extremely uncommunicative or manipulating me into being "the bad guy" so he can leave. i told him i was at the point where i'm just reading between the lines and perhaps getting all the worng messages but he never talks about it so how can i know? he deleted me entirely from the facebook and i asked him, wtf is that? and where do we go from here? i told him can't i live like this, all this passive-aggressive bullshit. he still said nothing... like i was speaking gibberish! so finally i packed his things b/c i was uncomfortable in my own home (he moved into my appt).

i assume he's staying at his mom's for now, i haven't heard through the grape vine yet what he's doing. i want to talk to him and i want us to get back on track but i'm letting the dust settle for now. i miss him but i don't miss the bullshit. i don't know if we're going to be able to ever see eye to eye.

my landlord said when he talked to C on the day he was taking his stuff C said to him, "i just don't know what i did wrong" and it sounded he like was about to cry... our relationship has become such a cluster fuck i don't even know what went wrong.

so for now i'm just hanging being lonely. and i'm wondering if it's even worth to be with a guy who really CAN'T seem to talk.
auralpoison
QUOTE(snow white @ Sep 9 2010, 04:28 PM) *
two days ago i packed up my boyfriend's ("C") clothes ect... and put them in his work space (our downstairs) to pick up. it was final effort to say "i'm not playing, we need to talk". . . i guess he's trying to spite me with that attitude but it just blows my mind that he wouldn't come upstairs and finally say "wtf is going on?!?!" . . . i told him can't i live like this, all this passive-aggressive bullshit.


Packing up his shit like that? Is pretty passive-aggressive. Many people would see that & think it sends a pretty non-ambiguous GTFO message without your actually having to say, "I am uncomfortable with you continuing to live here if you are going to refuse to engage me in a discussion about what is going on." They don't think, "Gee, maybe her packing my shit is her way of saying we need to talk RIGHT NOW." It says GTFO & that is what he did. I'd have gotten a moving van & gotten the fuck out, too, if it was made that clear I was no longer welcome.

QUOTE(snow white @ Sep 9 2010, 04:28 PM) *
my landlord said when he talked to C on the day he was taking his stuff C said to him, "i just don't know what i did wrong" and it sounded he like was about to cry.


QUOTE(snow white @ Sep 9 2010, 04:28 PM) *
i want to talk to him and i want us to get back on track but i'm letting the dust settle for now. i miss him but i don't miss the bullshit. i don't know if we're going to be able to ever see eye to eye.


Sooooo . . . he can talk to, almost cry in front of your landlord, but can't talk to YOU? That's kinda shitty, yes? Where exactly does he get off playing the wide-eyed innocent when it takes two to tango?

You have said you gave him ample opportunity to talk (although I do not know HOW you approached him & that can make all the difference!) about whatever drama you two have/had going on & um, it seems like he's said a LOT by saying nothing. He refused to discuss any problems (disrespectful/childish), he left when approached for said talks (even more disrespectful/childish), you packed up some of his shit (disrespectful/childish), he came & got ALL his shit, & finally he deleted you from FB (somehow the new barometer of the breakup). Methinks getting back together isn't going to be a likely option here without a LOT of elbow grease on both sides.

If you do get back together? I'd suggest some couples therapy. And you might want to take this from the Committed thread to heart:

Relationship Hacks.

QUOTE(RoxieRage @ Jun 13 2010, 06:43 PM) *
That link is highly useful, especially since my boyfriend and I are stuck in a rut of when we fight, I stay angry and he goes outside to smoke, comes back, and thinks everything is fine. He has yet to learn that saying we're going to figure something out, and then ignoring the issue for three days, does not make the issue go away and everything go back to normal.


QUOTE(karategrrl @ Jun 16 2010, 08:04 AM) *
I have come to realize that that is very typical male behavior. My hubby is very similar and it's been one of the thorns in my marriage, for sure. If I contemplate the "why," it makes my brain short out, so I try more and more to stay away from the "why." For some reason, they are just wired differently when it comes to that. Conflict seems to make most men retreat.

Just want to offer up something in case you or anyone else may find it useful. Hubby and I had a fight pattern--he would retreat when things got heated. The more he retreated, the more I pursued (fearing that if I let him retreat, he'd go off, forget it, and then we'd never resolve it). Each of our actions would only aggravate the other's, until all manner of shit was seriously shitting the fan. Our marriage counselor suggested a technique: either of us can call a "time out" when things get too heated (like a "7" on a scale of 1 to 10). Then we BOTH must back away and cool off. The clincher is the 2nd part: we MUST come together again at some point when we can discuss it rationally (within a half hour, 24 hours, 2 days, whatever--one asks if it's a good time and other says "yes" or "not yet.") That way, hubby gets space and I get to talk. We've tried it a couple of times and it did work well, I have to say. I find it much easier to back off when I know we will talk--just later--and he actually cools off faster when he gets the space he needs. Case in point: first time we did it, he was ready to talk after only 20 minutes. And we resolved it without all the pain it took in the past. We were both pretty surprised! YMMV, though.

A couple of the most interesting things I've learned from my own marriage experience:
-We all get into patterns with our partners (and family members/coworkers too!)
-Change truly can come from only ONE of the couple changing something--the other does not even have to be aware!

I read a bunch of books by Michele Weiner Davis (Divorce Busting, Change Your Life and Everyone in It, etc.) and she offers some good, concrete ideas of how to affect change and really shake things up for the better in a relationship. The ideas are all really the same from book to book, so I do recommend them to anyone interested in this topic. I must say it's been fun for me to step out of my usual way of doing things as well, and watch the "huh???!!" reactions! biggrin.gif

Roxie Rage, I know your BF's behavior is upsetting and aggravating. Hang in there! Good for you for recognizing you guys' "patterns" and the need for change. Very smart of you.


I hope that helps a little bit! I know you've had a rough year!
snow white
well, one week later and i feel relieved and happy to be single; initially it made me panicky and i feel bad that i was clinging so much to something so empty but ive gotten back in touch w/ so many of my own friends lately...its been fun!?! omg. im glad to be out of that situation. i agree w/ you about there being very little chance of us getting back together and im ok w/ that. the part that freaks me out now is being alone in the house, i'm just not used to it yet.

Persiflager
(((snow white)))

The radio is your friend.....
auralpoison
Congratulations, Snow White! I'm glad you're feeling better & reconnecting with old friends.

I am partial to white noise, I like a box fan or two.

snow white
ya, im totally rockin out all the time now smile.gif its cool, i can do whatever i want.

i bumped into C today, told him it was good to see him, he was very short w/ me. i just dont miss that shit... wish we could be friends, but i cant make him play nice. its too bad. and still shocking at how much happier i am...i thought "we" were happy, but i guess not.
stargazer
(((snow white))) You have been through a lot this year, Snow white. sad.gif TV and radio is good noise in the background to keep you company. Also, pets are a great way to get out of your head, caring for something, and, the best part of all, they snuggle with you. My kitty was really great for me (and still is) when I have bouts of loneliness.

(((more hugs for snow white)))
snow white
thanks so much for the feel good vibes smile.gif i will survive!!! lol

i'm not much of a "ballad" girl but i am in love with leona lewis' song, the one thats been all over the radio, it fits my life so perfectly.

the ex just recently sent me some shitty text messages, saying he's been hearing rumors around town accusing him of "fucking over the poor little sick girl" (insinuating i started them?? i avoid talking about the cancer whenever possible...) needless to say i may have left a mel gibson style voicemail in response. i don't feel bad. at least i can say it and dont need to hide behind a text. can't believe how ugly breakups can be. sad.gif i was trying to be friends, but i think he needs a reason to hate me. just my take on it tho.
futura
(((((Snow White))))))

I think it's good not to engage in his incendiary messages. It can be satisfying short term, but distancing yourself from him for now could be more cathartic in the long run. You need space for yourself. You can always decide if you want to remain friends later on.
sageykins
((((snow white))))
I haven't been on in ages- I moved, my car was broken into and my stereo (which was a christmas present from the ex and my brother) ripped out, I was moving the last few things out of the old place (that I loved) and missed a step and sprained my ankle TERRIBLE (4 weeks ago and it still hurts) and on and on. Needless to say it wasn't a fun autumn (almost said fall but that pun would be just too terrible to make).
Anyway, i met a guy on eharmony and it's kinda looking good. I have fears and worries as per my usual but he seems to be so awesome. Almost too good to be true but I think he's pretty genuine.
So while I am finally moving on... I am doing so very slowly. smile.gif
Love to all!
Persiflager
Gosh sageykins, what a rotten couple of months! Congratulations on keeping your sense of humour.

I LOVE terrible puns biggrin.gif

I came here to post this: Happy Scramiversary!
epinephrine
(((Sageykins))) good luck with the new guy!

(((snow white)))

I actually came in to ask a question which may or may not be better suited to another thread, but I always run into it during breakups: what does it mean to forgive someone? I know that forgiveness is key to healing, but I always have a hard time forgiving people, and forgiving myself. I seem to have got it in my head that to forgive someone who's done me wrong is to not only accept the uglier parts of my own past, but to accept and concede to the ugly things that they did. But at a certain point, that righteous anger becomes nothing more than resentment. I know it's useless.

My life has changed so much since my breakup last year. I stopped missing my ex fairly early on and stopped counting my regrets after a few months, but the anger lingered for a very long time. Even when I was back on my feet again and living more comfortably than I had in years, J was still a very sore subject for me. But since I came to China, I feel different somehow. I feel like the last few strings that attached me to my old life with J and her aftermath are really broken now - that was another time, another life. I don't feel angry or sad or anything anymore. J's no longer a sore subject. Since she's Chinese, a lot of things here remind me of her, but they don't hurt or make me uncomfortable or anything - she's just a part of my history now. I find myself talking more about her now than I have since we first broke up, because I finally feel like I'm free from the hell of that breakup and there's no longer a padlock on my memories and a taboo on her name. I still feel like the way she treated me was wrong, it's just not relevant anymore. Is that forgiveness? Or is that just the balm of time?
Persiflager
If she came to you, apologised for the way she treated you and asked for your forgiveness, would you give it to her? Assume that if you didn't, it would continue to be a source of guilt and pain for her.
jade
Its the balm of time aided by doing things for yourself that make you happy. Being happy is the bests medicine
sageykins
Thanks epi! I think maybe the time and happiness and peace within yourself is your own forgiveness, maybe to yourself, for what happened. .....Not that you did anything wrong but I mean sometimes in a breakup we (and by this I mean myself) are berating ourselves for not ending it sooner, wondering why we allowed them to get to us, let them hurt us, why we trusted them, etc etc. I think I did a lot of this for months with the ex. He was my best friend and I trusted him with my heart, and then he broke it. I think J did that to you- you trusted her with your heart and life and she broke your heart and from what I understand jerked you around and hurt your life pretty bad. You had a lot of hurt, and sometimes it takes time for us (and again I am saying I do this not necessarily anyone else) to forgive ourselves for allowing ourselves to be in that situation and allowing them in. So we need to forgive ourselves.
As for forgiving her, maybe you would be able to, maybe not. But you seem to have moved on. And happier. And moving on is a good thing. smile.gif

I'm not fully sure I've moved on. Have been hanging out with the new guy -who I will call Dewey (as he has been a librarian and although technically he isn't now, he is 'director of informatics' which just makes me laugh because really, crazy word). Anyway! Dewey is a good guy, and funny and sweet and thoughtful. I like him a lot. I am however still dealing with past fears... And having trouble being IN a relationship with him. Baby steps all the way here.
And this will sound insanely shallow of me, but I'm having trouble getting past something physical. It's making the attraction weird for me. Thoughts about this? I haven't been on in ages, but will try to get on here more often.
epinephrine
Baby steps is right. I was thinking today about all the changes I've been through in the past year and the turning point that breakup marked in my life, and I realized that my life could be very different now if I'd chosen to face things differently. I hurt a lot for a long time, but I'm really really happy now and I think I did the best I could with my situation. When I was still dealing with the breakup I remember being really frustrated and thinking that, if I really was doing everything right, things would be improving faster. I thought that, as long as I had the right attitude and filled my life with positive things, the sadness couldn't touch me, and it didn't work that way. I really hated how sad I was even when life was good, but that's just how it went for me - my healing process is on its own schedule. All I could do was to try to live well and take care of myself while it was doing its thing. And now I'm finally starting to see that that was what it was really all about. Everyone has a different way of dealing with their shit and I'm not saying mine was any better, I just want to tell you that that you're not the only person who's frustrated by the glacial pace of the moving on process and there's no shame in taking some time. I know it doesn't feel like it now, but eventually you'll get all that regret out of your system and you'll find yourself on the other side of your breakup, and when you look back on it (which you rarely will, because by the time you're over it it's just a boring old story that you have no time for) you'll feel strong, not just despite it, but because of it. Just be good to yourself and trust that, when the dust finally settles, you'll be in a good place.

Anyway, about forgiveness...I don't really think of forgiveness as something you can "give" someone. If my ex came up to me and apologized for treating me like shit, I wouldn't have a clue what to say, but it certainly wouldn't be "ok, I forgive you." That's something I'd say to someone who hurt or inconvenienced me by accident, without any dishonest intent, or if I truly believed that any dishonesty on their part was due to sheer ignorance. The way J treated me does not fall under that category. I don't know if I've forgiven her or if I've just stopped caring. I don't know if they're the same thing or not, and what the distinction would be if they weren't. All I know right now is that the regret is gone, and I'm curious to know what that means.
sageykins
(((((epi)))))

buttercups
Just found out from a friend (who thought i knew) that my ex of 6 years is going to be a dad. He got his new gf of less than a year pregnant. She's due in feb. He hasn't talked to me since about the time he mustve found out. Makes sense now. I just want to know why i'm shaking right now. Why i still care? Why I feel this pit in my stomach when I have a great bf of my own and my ex is still working as a waiter and his new gf is unemployed and they're about to have a baby. Why does this hurt me?? And why do I feel like he should have told me at some point even though it's clearly none of my business
Persiflager
(((buttercups)))

It hurts because there was a time when you thought that would be you, and when you wanted to have that future with him.

I don't think he needed to tell you, but I do think that your friend should have told you sooner if she could.
foryoursplendor
I still send my ex from 9 years ago happy birthday/merry xmas messages. Is this weird? He was my first bf, we were together for approx a year and a half when I was 18/19. I wish there wasn't so much stigma against hanging out with/being in contact with ex's. He was with me every day during super formative years and knows me in ways that may be impossible if you met me now. If he lived closer I would visit him.
enfermera
(((((((buttercups)))))))

girl, i have been right there more times than i would like to admit. it sucks. feels like a betrayal, even if it's technically not. hang in there, sweetie; the shock will wear off.
buttercups
Thanks ladies, I woke up this morning and hoped it was a nightmare, but it's not * sigh *

I also managed to get in a fight with my current bf about it because I was acting weird and told him to bring me home early cause I had a stomachache (I stupidly went to his house right after I found out) and then I told him what was going on and he got mad that I still cared so much. I apologized though and vowed never to talk about this ex again.

I am just so shell-shocked. My stomachs been in knots and I havent been able to eat since I heard about it and couldn't fall asleep last night til 5 am. I feel like I just desperately need some closure. Like if he would at least let us meet and talk and let me get out everything I've wanted to say I would feel better and could just move on, but he hasn't given me that luxury since he just cut me off completely and now I'll never get to say what I need to say. The weirdest thing is that I went on his sister's fb last night (we're still friends and him and his sister are close) and there is absolutely NO mention of this anywhere. She's very involved in her brothers life and you'd think she would put something like "im going to be an auntie" or something, but theres nothing. Very strange I think- and I'm assuming she's known since may. There's talk about my ex and his new gfs new apartment, but nothing about a baby. I know the pregnancy was unplanned, but my friend said that he was happy about it. Who knows whats up really though.

Anyways, I just want to stop OBSESSING about it and get on with my life! I want to stop thinking about him and rehashing things in my head. I have a great long-term bf now who treats me like gold, I need to get over this.

And foryoursplendor I do not think it's weird at all- I do the same thing. Even though my ex cut me off I still felt like being the bigger person and texted him happy birthday and merry christmas. I know I'm never going to get a response but I just wanted to let him know that I still cared about him as a person, regardless of him caring about me at all.

I'm going to go do some retail therapy, with my empty bank account...
Persiflager
An article about closure, and how it isn't contingent upon your ex's actions.

Buttercups, given how strongly you react to any mention of your ex, his sister might deliberately have avoided mentioning it where you would see. And when you text him at christmas/birthday, are you really being the bigger person? Why are you trying to maintain contact when he's not interested?

For the sake of your sanity, it might be worth de-friending his sister on fb - you really don't want to hear anything more about his new life.
ketto
I have to agree with Persi about this. If he's not wanting anything to do with you then I think I would want to end contact myself. I think it's obvious that you were really hurt by the whole situation but by staying in contact I would guess that you're letting the pain linger. It really sucks that you never felt he gave you closure but sometimes we just don't get to hear the words we want to. Even if you did get that one last time to sit and chat, it probably would go very different than how you've probably been imagining it.

An ex of mine contacted me over 3 years after we'd broken up to get things off his chest and basically let me know he was okay. At the time it was really upsetting to me because we'd been split up for so long and both in other relationships, but I realized he felt like he needed the closure from me.

In all honesty, I think he shouldn't have contacted me - I respect that he felt like he needed to say what he did, but he should have said it 3 years earlier. He talked about unresolved feelings that we both must have had and how we had finally reached a point of resolution. It was closure for him but my closure happened long before that and we had stopped speaking almost a year before. None of the things he talked to me about were things I was dealing with, and I imagine if you ever got the chance to tell you ex how you feel that his reaction would be much the same as mine was - clueless and a bit hurt to be bringing it up so long after and we haven't spoken since. In this situation it was me who broke up with him too.

I do have to ask, if he's cut you off, won't talk to you, won't communicate with you, and you know you won't get a response from him, and you've flat out said you know he doesn't care, then why do you? Quite frankly, he sounds like an asshole who left you with no answers and doesn't deserve your care or worry. It really sucks that you can't talk to him to and get the things you want to off your chest, but it really doesn't sound like he would care or be very receptive to that either. That might sound harsh, but looking back on things you've written about him he doesn't sound like he deserves all the thought you give him.

This might sound like a cheesy exercise, but I found it really helpful when I needed "closure" from a certain guy. I just ended up writing a 6 page letter to him that I never gave him, telling him all the ways he'd let me down and disappointed me and just seeing all that down on paper made me feel pretty good about having him out of my life.
buttercups
I know you guys are right, but for whatever reason I just can't stop myself from caring and I have no idea why. Maybe I am still in love with him- I don't even want to admit that but why else would I care? My mom says its obvious I'm jealous of his new gf and that I want to be with him. I really don't think I necessarily want to be with him, but can't figure out why this is hurting me so much for no apparent reason.

Persi I don't know if I'm trying to be the bigger person, maybe I'm not and I'm just still straining for some kind of contact. I don't know why I can't just let this go for chrissake.

Ketto it helps to hear from someone whos been on the other side of things. I guess it would be selfish of me to ask for that contact. I need to just back off and stay out of his life for good. That would be the most unselfish thing for me to do.

Is it normal for people to feel this way and to not be able to get over it after over a year? Does this mean I'm still in love with him?? I didn't feel in love with him when we broke up and I got a new bf. Maybe I just liked having someone on the back burner and now that I no longer do and he's clearly moved on I'm feeling jealous. I feel like an awful person right now. I feel like a jealous bitch and I hate feeling like I hate him. My parents say I should only want good things for him because now theres a child involved, but I'm feeling mean and I secretly want him to fall on his ass. Apparently, according to my family, that anger means that I still have feelings for him. I just can't believe he's having a baby. I can't believe I'm jealous, I don't even want kids. I feel like a horrible person because I can't just be happy for him and stay out.
ketto
Buttercups, it sounds like you have a lot of unresolved feelings with this relationship. I know you've written before about feeling really similar last year and that this ex was your first everything and it seems like you probably have some anger towards him because you stayed with him for 6 years, he was your first everything, and you were there for him and he's ended up in a pretty serious situation with someone else and has cut off all communication with you. It sounds like you two were pretty friendly but it also sounds like you probably crossed a line for him. As much as it sucks, it doesn't sound like he wants to have any kind of contact with you and that he has very much moved on. It sounds like the things he told you about why he didn't want to be with you or why things couldn't work were very hurtful to you and that you feel he hasn't taken any responsibility for the relationship ending.

Have you thought about going to counselling? It really seems like you need to grieve your old relationship and get out your anger and frustration with the situation. Friends and family can be great support but sometimes someone outside of the situation is a real blessing. In my experience, trying to stay friends with ex's just leaves a lot of unresolved feelings for way too long. One person is left wondering if there's another chance in there somewhere while the other one quietly moves on. It really just sounds like you've never taken the time to process the end of this relationship and you need to be able to let it go.
Persiflager
QUOTE
Maybe I just liked having someone on the back burner and now that I no longer do and he's clearly moved on I'm feeling jealous.


This! But it doesn't make you a bad person; it makes you normal. I've had 'feelings' for all my exes for a while after we've been broken up, but I didn't want to get back together with them and I definitely wasn't in love. I've also been jealous of someone I had a minor fling with when he got a girlfriend, even though I hadn't been interested in a relationship.

I don't think that you want to be with him, but I do think you want him to want to be with you. For some reason, a huge amount of your self-esteem is wrapped up in this guy.
buttercups
Ketto you're right in that I definitely have so many unresolved feelings about this. And my family isn't helping and I don't want to admit to my friends that I feel this way- so maybe I do need to talk to someone else about it. I just keep hoping he'll go away or I have that fantasy of running into him in the grocery store and saying exactly whats on my mind. But that's never going to happen. I'm trying to consider him dead right now, as morbid as that sounds, because if he were dead I would never be able to contact him and I can't now either. Helps in some strange way.

Thanks Persi for making me feel relieved about not being in love with him. Everyone keeps saying " well you must still be in love with him then " and I've started to question my relationship with my bf now- which I never wanted to do. But it doesnt feel like love because i don't want to be with him so yeah I guess I just want him to be stuck on me forever in the most selfish of ways. Guess I should be glad he's moved on. Weird thing is back when we broke up I used to worry about him being all alone for the rest of his life, and now that he certainly won't be I can't be happy about that.

Thanks again ladies for helping me through this and keeping me sane. * hugs *
buttercups
Sooo me and my ex had a mutual friend that died a year ago. In fact the last time I saw my ex was at his funeral. There's a memorial service for this friend on the 22nd and I'm afraid to go because my ex might be there. I haven't even so much as run into him ever, so this idea terrifies me. Part of me thinks he won't show up because of the prospect of seeing me, but I won't know for sure. If he is there, what do I do? Say hi? Ignore him like he's ignored me? Why does this happen now when his new gf is about to burst any second now with his child? Seeing him would not be good..
jade
the fastest way to heal and move on is to be happy. go and see everyone else there and mingle, talk and look confident and together.
coffeebean
Buttercups, I think before you go it is worth considering all of the statements you have written below. To really consider whether your scared feelings are really the result of not wanting to see him or actually the result of the potential to see your ex, speak to him, or somehow have him back in your life. I'm wondering how you will feel if he is there and he continues to ignore you? Will this contribute to the anger and unreolved feelings you already have? How will you be able to manage that afterward? What if he does not come alone and then you are faced with the glaring reality that he has moved on and is about to have a child? I'm not asking these questions to be insensitive, but rather as a way of considering how to protect your own emotional well-being. Good luck!
buttercups
Thanks guys, I agree with you both. If I do end up going I am going to try and act as confident and put together as I can. But for the reasons that you mentioned coffeebean, I am not sure if I am going to go. I'm not sure if I am ready to face him and the potential of his pregnant gf if it should come down to that. Part of me thinks he is much too much of a coward to show his face there when he knows that I could be there, but then again I really will have no way of knowing. Just trying to decide if it would be better to sit this one out...I'm sure everyone else there would understand if they ever asked. Hmm..at least I have a little time to think about it.
secretsights88
Ok girls, I'm new to the Lounge, and I could use some help. This may be long, but please bear with me. So the thing is, my ex and I were in a relationship for almost 4 years. He was my first boyfriend and even though I techically did lose my virginity to him (because he's been the only one to see me naked, touch my vulva and penetrate my vagina), prior to him, as a teen girl, I made out casually with a couple of guys and had a friend with benefits. To the latter I kind of gave a BJ (I chickened out before he finished). So yeah, that was my "past".

Funnily enough, it was my friend with benefits whointroduced me to my now ex. They were friends. In the beginning, I wanted to tell him EVERYTHING Id' done before, including the FWB thing, in an attempt to be honest and say "This is me, this is who you're getting involved with, if you like it fine, if you don't... fine!". My friends told me not to. And one day when I let a tiny detail slip about a past experience with a guy (pertaining to kissing probably since I was a virgin!), he got jealous and told me "Look, I'm a jealous guy. Don't ever tell me about you past, because I don't wanna know and it may ruin things".

The relationship went well, it was blissful, we felt like soulmates, there was (and still is) chemistry, trust, fun, support, shared values... except one day our mutual friend was wtih us, I was talking to him, laughing, and my then boyfriend got jealous I guess. Next day, he asked me "Did you two ever had something?". I was petrified, so all I could say was "No!!". He asked me again... I said "Ok. Yes. We were friends with benefits, I liked him, and so I gave him a BJ". He got angry, upset, jealous and stopped trusting me. He felt betrayed and humiliated.

So the next 3 years became hell. After that, he broke up with me. Then he came back apologizing telling me he couldn't live without me. We didn't break up for a long time, but I constantly felt like he would. We'd fight a few times each week, about the same subject. When we were fine, I felt happy, but with the lingering sensation that he'd eventually dump me. As he became jealous, I stopped seeing friends, talking to most guys, or doing things behind his back if it was necessary.

We grew closer, but without his trust, we fought. And sometimes, he'd get mad, or break up with me, and did things to spite me, like go partying with his friends and turn off his phone, hang out with girls who were after him, etc. Then he'd apologize profusely or get back together with me, and told me he'd change that he knew he was wrong, etc. I eventually got tired of it, and on May 2010, I broke up with him.

After that, he magically saw the light, and realized he'd always been in the wrong, that he had lost an amazing woman, blah, blah, blah. I had new friends who told me I should just tell him to fuck off, because they knew what he'd put me through. That he wasn't worth it, you know, the works. For a while, we took our distance, sort of. But we always ended up missing each other.

I still love him, but I guess I'm not "in love" with him (I finally understand what THAT is about!), the thing is, we've hung out and he seems sweet and like he seems to realize he has to change, that he shouldn't treat me like that, etc. But even though I've missed him, and sometimes I long for him, but when I'm actually with him, it feels different, not like before. I feel like it's not the right thing to do, especially with what my friends have told me, that I should be stronger and not forgive him. I do resent him a little, it's always like he has this attitude "Hey, I've changed, forgive me, I'm not the same asshole I was, let's get back together, see I'm a sweet guy again!". It's like he expects forgiveness for having changed...

Except he hasn't really changed entirely. He still doesn't really trust me, and constantly expects little gestures or things that prove him I love him and that he can trust me. Hey, I shouldn't even be talking to you in the first place, why should I be the one doing things to show my love? Something doesn't feel quite right, so I told him I didn't wanna be with him anymore. However, he didn't take my word seriously, and called me to say "Please honey, don't be like that, don't get mad over that stuff, we can work it out! We love each other!".

But I told him I didn't wanna be with him. Now I feel guilty, and wonder if it's a mistake (you know, since people often say that one should be greatful to have at least one person love you at all), but I figure I can be OK without him... but him, he gets all sad, all clingy, we've been through this before, and even though I don't really wanna be with him, I hate it that he's sad. I want him to be happy. I just have a feeling that we shouldn't be together, since the relationship, as much as we'd like to make it work, is too much of a hassle.

I know I'm overthinking. But I don't know... why can't he just hate me? It'd make things easier, or why couldn't he be the one to dump me? I just want the uncertainty to end. I want him to be OK. Should I just leave him, or should I take him back?

(Sorry for the length).
ketto
A few alarm bells were going off in my head reading what you wrote, secretsights88. First of all, it sounds like your gut is telling you this is not a good situation to be in and I'm a strong believer in trusting your gut. Secondly, some of his behaviour sounds like it could lead to more serious problems down the line. I understand that some people are jealous, but it doesn't sound to me like you've really given him a reason not to trust you. The fwb relationship you had wasn't disclosed from the start, but once it was, it was something that happened in the past, that was no longer going on, and it sounds like you had no thoughts of re-igniting.

Some of the things that stuck out for me in what you wrote:

QUOTE
So the next 3 years became hell...
As he became jealous, I stopped seeing friends, talking to most guys, or doing things behind his back if it was necessary...
sometimes, he'd get mad, or break up with me, and did things to spite me, like go partying with his friends and turn off his phone, hang out with girls who were after him, etc. Then he'd apologize profusely or get back together with me, and told me he'd change that he knew he was wrong, etc...
it's always like he has this attitude "Hey, I've changed, forgive me, I'm not the same asshole I was, let's get back together, see I'm a sweet guy again!". It's like he expects forgiveness for having changed...
Except he hasn't really changed entirely. He still doesn't really trust me, and constantly expects little gestures or things that prove him I love him and that he can trust me


This might sound extreme to you, but a lot of his behaviour sounds like it's bordering on emotionally abusive. Do you feel like you gave him a reason not to trust you, because I don't think I see it in what you wrote. And it sounds like you don't trust him either in terms of change - like you said, he still doesn't trust you and he expects you to prove that you love him - a relationship shouldn't have to be about proving to someone else that you care about them. The fact that he sounds like he often tries to get back on your good side by telling you "he's changed" is worrisome too, and it sounds like you've already been through a cycle of him getting jealous, irrational, and angry to him getting apologetic and talking about "change" more than once.

Honestly, I sounds like you've answered your own question throughout the post:

QUOTE
But even though I've missed him, and sometimes I long for him, but when I'm actually with him, it feels different, not like before. I feel like it's not the right thing to do...Something doesn't feel quite right, so I told him I didn't wanna be with him anymore...I still love him, but I guess I'm not "in love" with him...why can't he just hate me? It'd make things easier, or why couldn't he be the one to dump me? I just want the uncertainty to end.


It sounds like what's really holding you back is your fear that you'll hurt him. Unfortunately, there's really no way around that but if you're heart isn't in it and not only your friends have doubt, but so do you, then you have to ask yourself if this is the kind of relationship you want to be in. Breaking up with someone sucks, no matter what end your on and it sucks to have to feel the guilt of hurting someone, but in the long run it's more fair for him and for yourself.
buttercups
Hey secretsights88, I have to say that I definitely agree with ketto on this one- while I was reading your posts I noticed some major red flags - all the jealousy and how he isolated you from your friends and seeing people you wanted to see, etc- that is never good. Though he might say he's "changed" now, do you really believe he won't ever get jealous like that again? What has he done to prove to you that he's actually changed? Has he had therapy?? It sounds like he is just saying whatever he can to get you back. If you really are thinking about getting back together with him, I would ask him to prove to you that he's changed in some way. Without the proof, how can you ever feel safe enough to believe it?

It also sounds like you have pretty much moved on from this guy emotionally- and that can be a hard thing to do. You have come to a place in your life where you know you can live without him, in fact you have done just great without him, so why give yourself the opportunity to open that wound up again? If you've finally reached that point in your life where you can see yourself moving on you should run with it!

I think you have to trust your instincts on this one, because it sounds like you know exactly what is right for you in your heart, and that is to just keep going forward and not look back. You never deserved to be treated the way he treated you in the first place, and unless he's gotten professional help to change then I wouldn't trust it. You have come so far, be proud of where you are now and what you have done.

On a moving on side note, my ex's baby was born the other day- I'm still friends with his sister on fb so I could see pictures of her. She's actually really cute. She has a really pretty name. For whatever reason, it makes my heart sink. I wish I could apologize to him and try to ask for some forgiveness, but I know that I can never do that now. To his new little family I am the ultimate enemy and I need to stay away. It's just weird seeing another woman in a position that I thought I would be with him one day. It's weird missing out on one of the biggest events of one of my (former) best friend's life. The baby is actually here, and the next chapter of his life is starting now, and I will never be a part of it again.
futura
Ketto says it all so well. Secretsights88, it seems like only when you withdraw, your ex comes back, wanting to get back together again. I don't think people change on a whim; they only change if they really really want to themselves. I think, from what i've read, that you're better off without him. You've already proven you're doing fine without him.

((((buttercups))))
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