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kittenb
{{{{ghosting}}}} There has been some really good stuff posted here so I am going to ditto a lot of that. Personally, I would want to burn everything he left at your place. If there is an open field somewhere that you can set up a bonfire, go for it. A fireplace will do. If nothing else, get the world's biggest sage smudge stick and cleanse that place on a deep and spiritual level. You deserve a fresh start.

If making out with your Chicago fling makes you feel better, do it. If it doesn't, if it will leave you unhappier than you already are, don't. Many Busties live in Chicago, myself included. If you want to get together for Rock Band and wine, (or something else) send me a PM.

Be careful with yourself. If you feel like you are losing it and are getting close to hurting yourself (or someone else) consider it an emergency. Call a friend. Call a professional. There are people who can help and I don't want to see you get hurt in a way that you can't come back from.

Best of luck. Thank you for posting and sharing.
hcbeck
Some people are almost as complimented by others hating them with a passion as they are when they are loved. They are thrilled that others are thinking/feeling anything about them.

Use that. Don't care. Either way.

Look forward to the day when you care so little about who he is and what he is doing that you feel nothing at all.

Not today or tomorrow, but some day.
stargazer
(((ghosting))) good for you for doing what you can to block his calls, etc. i know this suggestion will sound corny, but it really helped me get through a breakup to not call the ex and try to focus on me in order to move forward. i was living alone at the time. i put post it notes with positive self affirmations all over my apartment in places i would view them, such as my clock, the bathroom mirror, the telephone. it served a reminder of the good things about me and to think about myself in a way that allowed me to heal. the post it by the phone was really important for me so i would not call the ex. after about a couple of weeks, i was feeling so good about myself that i didn't need them up anymore.

take care of yourself. (((ghosting)))
jupiteregg
Hello everybody. I'm still figuring out how to use this website.
My partner of ten years just left me. My head is all over the place. Everything is upside down. I keep getting cold after cold, I have trouble keeping food down, and I can't get anything done. I forget everything to the point of getting in my car and forgetting where I needed to go. What's really killing me is that she told me she just doesn't love me anymore. Great, now I feel like shit. Completely unlovable, useless, disgusting... My self-esteem is beyond the toilet. It's in the septic tank. I feel so cliche.
zoya
((((ghosting))))


I'm so sorry. it's such a shit situation to be in - when I was with my ex, I don't think he ever physically cheated on me, but I found a few emails once when he had checked his email on my computer and accidentally left the mailbox window open, that were between him and a couple different girls he'd met on tour - talking about what he wanted to do with them, and referring to phone sex he must have had with them, etc. I was shattered. I remember feeling like I was floating above myself and things just weren't quite real. I didn't even know how to deal with it, because here's me, looking at his email, which is a huge breach of trust - but I'd been pushed to the point that I started doing things like that. It's a horrible feeling. I never did say anything to him about it, until after we'd broken up, he never denied it, only said he didn't remember any of it. (which could well be, since he was using at the time)

something that helps loads is exercise. You probably don't feel like doing shit for exercise right now, but even getting out in the sun and taking a walk helps. Or doing some sort of class that gets you going, like spin class or something. for me, it has to be something that gets me moving. I can't do yoga, gives me too much time to think.

I hear you on the age thing, too. As much as people tell you that guys don't care about age, brushing it off saying you look great, etc etc, (which I know intellectually is true - the last few guys I've dated have ranged in age from 6 - 15 years younger than me, and every single one of them has pursued me first) it's still really difficult to come to terms with when someone you were with gets with someone that is 15 years younger than you and the complete antithesis of what you look like. It's the one thing about yourself you can't change - your age - and so much gets wrapped up in that, because there's really nothing you can do about it. I'm not trying to be the bum-out queen here, I'm just saying that I understand that whole thing, more than you probably know. (ask GT, AP, Star or Bunnyb!!!) But I just try to remind myself of exactly what I wrote before - that intellectually I know that I look good, take care of myself, am a great person, and that guys seem to be just fine with that. And that even GUYS have told me that age isn't a big deal, especially not these days. Besides, you're probably 10x better in bed and in a conversation than some 21 year old, and though you don't feel like it now, you do have way more strength to draw from to talk yourself through this. It just doesn't seem like it at the moment. I'd be willing to bet that right now, you feel like some lost little girl who doesn't know what to do, trapped in your "old" body (I'm 40, so I'm not dissing you by saying that. it's how I'm feeling right now about things.....) but if you just keep taking care of yourself, you're going to get to a better place. I've gotten there before. I'm banking on getting there again myself. I know you can. It just takes time and the effort of working on you and taking care of yourself.

I'm glad you're getting out of town for a bit. I highly encourage you to meet up with a bustie or two when in Chicago. Every single bustie I've met IRL has been amazing. The only Chicago bustie I've met is Stargazer, and she's such an awesome, positive, supportive person (who can pack away the vodka lemonades to boot!) I'm sure the others are the same! (well, maybe minus the proclivity for vodka lemonades...) And please still consider talking to a therapist. This is such a great time to commit to working on yourself and growing. You will come out of this 10x stronger and more aware of who you are if you do the work. I promise. I made that commitment to myself when I broke up with my ex - that if I walked away, I was going to commit to doing whatever it took to work on myself. 4 years later I've had a job at the top of my field, live in a country that I'd always dreamed of living in, working for the company I wanted to work for, with amazing friends who I can always count on. I chalk that up 100% to doing the painful work (and continuing to do it) on myself, starting when I was fresh from that relationship. As you can see from my posts, I still can't get the relationship thing to work out, but at least I'm happy with myself and the accomplishments I've made.

lest I sound like some motivational speaker, I'll leave it at that. smile.gif
kittenb
{{[jupiteregg}}} I can't even imagine what you are going through right now. There is a really good book that you might benefit from called How To Survive The Loss of a Love. I have had several copies pass through my life and move on to others as needed (I swear the books goes where it chooses to go.)

Please feel free to post here as needed. There are others who have been in situations similar to you. You are not alone.
jupiteregg
Thanks kittenb. I will definitely check out that book!
Some days seem like they are a little better for just a moment and then everything crashes again. Everyone tells me that I need to stop talking to her. It's funny how the only person that I want to help me through this pain is the one that caused it. We are supposed to go to a wedding in May and she still wants to go together. I agreed to go because I'm grasping at any chance of putting things back together. I know I shouldn't. Normally I'm a very logical, down-to-earth girl, but this has turned me into a nut job. ug.
Persiflager
((jupiteregg)) and ((zoya))

A couple of links for ghosting on why it's hard to leave an abusive relationship: Linky 1 and Linky 2.

jupiteregg
Today is a bad day. Just when I think I'll be ok everything crashes down. I finally fell asleep without any drugs and then had nightmare after nightmare. i dreamed I found a bunch of tropical fish and everyone one I touched died. Then I thought I had forgotten to feed my horses for weeks. Meanwhile, I'm chasing my partner around this abandoned building begging her not to leave me. Woke up with a panic attack and sent some stupid texts to the ex. ex... that sounds so weird. I wish my bed wasn't empty. I feel so weak and pathetic. I used to be such a strong, independent feminist. I could have never imagined what it would feel like to have someone tell you they don't love you anymore. fuck.
roseviolet
((((((((((((((((jupiteregg))))))))))))))))))))))))
Loving someone - whether they return the favor or not - does not make you a bad feminist. As for strength, none of us can be strong all the time. That's especially true when nursing a broken heart.

Kitten, I've never heard of that book before, but it looks like a life saver.
purplestain
(((((jupiteregg)))))
I know just what you mean when you say you want to talk to her about it to help. When your SO is your closest friend, they're the one you automatically confide in and complain to, and when they want time away from you that just fucks everything up, because then who are you supposed to talk to about it when no one understands better than them? Conclusion: LAME

PS sorry if this is not at all helpful
LoveMyPugs
deleted...
tankgirl
(((pugs))) I hope you 2 find you path. I 'm sorry that you are struggling with this. I know how it feels and wish I had constructive advice to give you but I don't. I just hope you are well.
roseviolet
((((((((((((((((((((((Pugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I look forward to the day when you finally learn the language of your own heart. I feel like it keeps trying to tell you something, but you just can't translate its meaning yet. I've been there. Therapy helped me a lot.

You say your gut is telling you not to get married yet. I think, in an odd way, that is a positive sign. It means you're making personal progress. Instead of just asking others what to do, a part of you is communicating this information to you. Your heart is telling you what to do! Hooray! Umm ... kinda. wink.gif The point is listen to your gut. Trust what it has to say. It doesn't necessarily mean that you will never marry. It just means you shouldn't marry now.

As for church & religion ... I'm wondering if you need to look for a different denomination. I imagine you'll have to play Goldilocks for a while more before you find the place that's "just right" for you.

I was raised in the Disciples of Christ church & I get the impression that it's very welcoming. A DoC minister married me and Sheff even though Sheff isn't a member of the Disciples of Christ church (he was raised a Quaker). Also, my mom's best friend regularly attended our church every Sunday, worked in the church office, and ran the music for every Sunday service, but her husband stayed home (he came for Easter & Xmas services only). As far as I know, she never received any grief about it. It was unfortunate for her I imagine, but everyone just seemed happy to have her there, no matter who sat next to her in the pew. So there really are churches out there that are more welcoming to people in your current situation. Some individual congregations may be more flexible than others, though. Again, you'll have to shop around to find a place that's right for you.
bunnyb
QUOTE(LoveMyPugs @ Mar 15 2009, 03:12 AM) *
when reading this please remember that i am in a very tender spot right now and don't fire off at me. i just want to share this with you all. many of you PM me and want to know how I am. i always put 110% of myself out here on the boards. maybe that is wrong but i do it anyway cause i'm honest like that. so please just remember that i'm tender hearted and sensitive person when you respond.


To be honest, I don't know why you post on a public forum when you state that you don't want public opinion. Why ask for advice when you don't listen anyway, and only want us to say what you want to hear? I don't mollycoddle people or only tell people what they want to hear: maybe that is wrong but I do it anyway cos I'm honest like that. By putting a disclaimer on your post strikes me as manipulating the responses so that they do, indeed, validate your choices. I gave you an honest, heartfelt and logical reply (well many replies) when you first posted about your relationship problems in full and I received nothing but shit for it; you asked for our opinions and didn't like what we had to say and you took one thing I said (esteem issues) amongst many and focused only on that and wouldn't hear anything else. Once we all spent a lot of time responding to you and investing in it you flounced because turns out our suggestion of postponing/cancelling the wedding and seeking therapy was the way to go.

The above quote pisses me off: BUSTies are also the most sensitive and tender of people but we don't bullshit. I understand that you are going through a difficult time and feel a lot of hurt but don't use the boards to live your life for you and choose what to do next; no other BUSTie does that.
LoveMyPugs
thanks bunnyb...knew i could count on you...
bunnyb
*shrugs* any time...

I see you deleted your post. God you are such a drama queen.
zoya
pugs - I didn't read your first post before you deleted it, but just based on the quote in bunnyb's post, I have to ask, why are you posting your stuff on a public forum - especially one like bust where you know that you will get heartfelt, non sugar coated feedback - if you only want to hear something that's not going to make you feel upset? That's how we learn and grow in life, by dealing with shit we don't necessarily want to deal with, which sometimes includes hearing shit we don't want to hear.

The deletion of your post, and your response to bunnyb bums me out. It shows me that you really don't care so much about the busties and what input they can have in helping you learn and grow, that all you really want is to get approval for whatever it is you're doing, so that you can feel ok about it. That's not learning and growing. That's staying stuck.
roseviolet
In LMP's deleted post, she mentioned that she has asked tons of people for advice and that everyone has told her that since she & Mr. P cannot agree on children & religion, they should break up. However, those opinions aren't enough. She wants to go back to the therapist and see what one more person has to say. Mr. P says that LMP is relying too much on other people to tell her how to live her own life.

But here's the thing. It doesn't matter what the therapist says. It doesn't matter what LMP's family says. Or her friends. Or us. If any of these opinions DID matter, she wouldn't be with him anymore. The only opinion that matters is LMP's opinion. It's totally, completely in her hands and I bet that scares the ever-loving shit out of her. That's why she keeps asking other people for their opinion, but deep deep down she KNOWS it's all up to her. Pugs is going to do whatever she wants to do, whether we like it or not. In a lot of ways, that's GOOD. I don't want her to be a puppet that we can manipulate. I don't want to be pulling her strings & have her living life in a certain way just because we tell her it's the right choice.

But Pugs, here's something I hope you'll understand: People who love you and care about you WILL want to tell you how they really feel. If they disagree with your choice, eventually they will tell you. It's extremely emotionally exhausting to attempt to support a person who is making a decision that appears wrong & even damaging. We can try to sit back and play nicey-nicey for a while, but even the most patient person cannot do that forever.
bunnyb
QUOTE(roseviolet @ Mar 15 2009, 05:33 PM) *
In LMP's deleted post, she mentioned that she has asked tons of people for advice and that everyone has told her that since she & Mr. P cannot agree on children & religion, they should break up. However, those opinions aren't enough. She wants to go back to the therapist and see what one more person has to say. Mr. P says that LMP is relying too much on other people to tell her how to live her own life.

But here's the thing. It doesn't matter what the therapist says. It doesn't matter what LMP's family says. Or her friends. Or us. If any of these opinions DID matter, she wouldn't be with him anymore. The only opinion that matters is LMP's opinion. It's totally, completely in her hands and I bet that scares the ever-loving shit out of her. That's why she keeps asking other people for their opinion, but deep deep down she KNOWS it's all up to her. Pugs is going to do whatever she wants to do, whether we like it or not. In a lot of ways, that's GOOD. I don't want her to be a puppet that we can manipulate. I don't want to be pulling her strings & have her living life in a certain way just because we tell her it's the right choice.

But Pugs, here's something I hope you'll understand: People who love you and care about you WILL want to tell you how they really feel. If they disagree with your choice, eventually they will tell you. It's extremely emotionally exhausting to attempt to support a person who is making a decision that appears wrong & even damaging. We can try to sit back and play nicey-nicey for a while, but even the most patient person cannot do that forever.


Thank you, rose, for not coddling pugs and perpetuating her ... whatever it is she is doing. You speak from a kind place where I am just pissed off in general but if you and I and zoya are saying the same things in different ways then maybe somebody will get through to her (it sure as hell won't be me considering her bratty response).

However, I do need to say this: I read "I don't want her to be a puppet that we can manipulate" and laughed because the way I see it, it's the other way around. Pugs is playing people on this board by playing the martyr when a lot of what she posts (and then deletes) is pure attention-seeking. I am not disputing that she is in a rough situation (trainwreck springs to mind) but she doesn't do herself any favours by being selfish, self-obsessed and bratty. Her latest post, before it was deleted, again was all about her and how she has to compromise; she doesn't see that people don't get what they want all of the time, that life doesn't work that way. Perhaps pugs and mr pugs are made for one another and should go and get married (the substance of the post that was deleted) but she has to go and live her life or make her own mistakes and stop dramatising it all. In other words: she has to grow up.
zoya
QUOTE(roseviolet @ Mar 15 2009, 11:33 AM) *
The only opinion that matters is LMP's opinion. It's totally, completely in her hands and I bet that scares the ever-loving shit out of her. That's why she keeps asking other people for their opinion, but deep deep down she KNOWS it's all up to her. Pugs is going to do whatever she wants to do, whether we like it or not. In a lot of ways, that's GOOD. I don't want her to be a puppet that we can manipulate. I don't want to be pulling her strings & have her living life in a certain way just because we tell her it's the right choice.
.



Agreed - but there is a difference between letting other people tell you what to do, and listening to other people's feedback, weighing and considering another p.o.v. that may be seeing things in a different way because those people aren't inside the situation at hand. Taking that into consideration as part of your personal growth. That's why I always say "feedback" or "input" rather than "advice." I think you're right, pugs is gonna do what ever she is gonna do, which indeed is good - but I feel like all she's coming here for at this point is approval on her choices, so she can feel better about what she's doing (and clearly if she's not 100% sure about what she's doing in her own heart, and needing other people's approval to make her feel good about her choices, her gut is probably not feeling very good about what she's doing. Kinda mind over matter. Only she's asking us to be her mind)

QUOTE(roseviolet @ Mar 15 2009, 11:33 AM) *
But Pugs, here's something I hope you'll understand: People who love you and care about you WILL want to tell you how they really feel. If they disagree with your choice, eventually they will tell you. It's extremely emotionally exhausting to attempt to support a person who is making a decision that appears wrong & even damaging. We can try to sit back and play nicey-nicey for a while, but even the most patient person cannot do that forever..


agreed.
roseviolet
Zoya, that's a really good way to put it. Another person's perspective or feedback really can shed a lot of light on certain situations. I think most of the people who post in these threads are seeking exactly that. I know a lot of us have benefited from the wise words and fabulous input from the Busties. It can be a lot of help in many situations.

Here's a perfect example.


QUOTE(zoya @ Mar 15 2009, 02:08 PM) *
(and clearly if she's not 100% sure about what she's doing in her own heart, and needing other people's approval to make her feel good about her choices, her gut is probably not feeling very good about what she's doing. Kinda mind over matter. Only she's asking us to be her mind)


That's an extremely interesting idea. Heartbreaking, but interesting.

A few of us have occasionally sent Pugs some vibes or asked how she's holding up, so I suspect that her post was mostly an up-date for those of us who have been worried about her. She may have requested our approval, but in a way that doesn't matter. After all of this time & all of the information that has been exchanged, it's impossible for many of us to not have an opinion on this situation, whether she asks us for our approval or not.
girltrouble

i find it funny, bunny that you call her post "pure attention-seeking." but then call her a drama queen for deleting it. seems to me she can't win. look, i know you are frustrated with pugs. but i think there is this sort prediliction of....projection when one is doling out advise. we tend to see ourselves in the situation, and ask what we would do, with all of our experiences, and lessons we've learned. not to call someone out, but that was what aural did with mouse, but mouse is very, very different than aural, they see/act/behave/move in the world very differently. so what seems like the most obvious thing, the most natural thing for aural, is just not within mouse's range of possiblities. now, mouse may grow into someone who can do aural's suggestion, but that takes time and tide, and many more experiences. i hope neither of them mind me bringing that up, because i don't think either person was wrong in their advise/action (or lack their of), i think aural's advise would have cut short many of the problems mouse was having, but i also know that just wasn't in mouse's dna. the were both right in what they did. the problem came when aural insisted that mouse take her way, parallel to what is happening here. i understand why aural did it, she was frustrated, but aural projecting who she was on mouse's situation did nothing but alienate mouse. i think the same thing can be said here. pugs is still has so much to learn. take it from someone who was a late bloomer. you never realize how much you've missed out on. it takes a while to catch up to everyone else and it's terribly scary.

in the time since she first started posting here, she's grown by leaps and bounds, she's discovered there is much more to her than she ever dreamed. she used to think there wasn't much too her, and that the best part of her was mr. pugs. since then she's gone back to school, gotten a good job, and started to see that mr. pugs isn't the end-all-be-all. she's started to see the cracks in this dream life she's had since she met mr. pugs. remember, they started dating young, and she's never dated anyone else. imagine if you had dated your first love 13 years. there is a whole lot of experiences that you haven't had. you would still cling to the idea that some how you were meant to be with this person. i don't thing pugs is being a drama queen or being manipulative, but rather, she is trying to figure out what the hell to do. the disintegration of her relationship has been nothing less that earthshaking for her, and this idea that she should just take all of the advise everyone's giving her and move on... in her circumstances, with her lack of experience, i just don't think that's realistic.

do i think pugs is making a mistake if she stays with the mr? absolutely, and i think she will see that in time. but if she needs to make her own mistakes, it's not for me to tell her she'll be sorry, or heckle or name call because her inability to see things as i do. she's gotta get there on her own. if that means that she needs to stick around for 2, 4, or even 10 years, then that is what she needs to do. do i wish it weren't so? ofcourse, but she simply may not be capable, or maybe she's just going thru the stages of mourning for the only relationship she's ever had. either way, insulting and badgering her isn't going to change her mind, it will only chase her away, and pugs has contributed a lot to this lounge. so, be blunt, sure, but there is no need to be mean. give her some time. i think if we support her, telling her gently, she will come around, but don't expect her to do it in your timeframe.
bunnyb
GT, pugs' overall activity in the lounge is attention seeking, including the deletion of her post, which is why I called her a drama queen: it's still drawing attention to herself. In withdrawing like a poor wounded puppy she ensures that other jump to her defense (more eloquently than she ever could).
girltrouble
considering only two people read her post, i doubt that, bunny.

as for her over all activity, i disagree, i think pugs participated in a great many threads. i think of the bdsm thread for one, where she contributed a great deal her bravery and honesty was breathtaking and would not be the same without her. but that is a silly assertion in the first place. do we wait for a bustie to participate at a certain level before we reply to them? of course not.

but back to your point: her contribution, of course, were before the problems with mr. when she had them, she started to withdrawl, and for a while didn't post at all because she was dealing with it. then she asked for our advise, and after listening to it, called off her wedding. something i am sure was extremely difficult. right now she is going thru a situation which, for her is earth shattering: her life as she knew it-- as she imagined it since her teens i might add-- melting down.

look, i understand your frustration, but think about it from her point of view, please, bunny. she called off her wedding to a guy she's been dating forever. that wasn't a baby step, it was a huge leap. do you know how hard that must have been? the humiliation and hurt she must have felt? to say that she's not listened, after that i think is cruel. while she knows it was the right thing to do in her head, in heart of hearts, she's not sure. she misses what she's had. she thinks that she can go back to the way things were. using a biblical metaphor, she's left the garden, and she wants back in. she doesn't realize that she can't go back, that she will be unhappy. but give her time to find her way. please. be patient with her. this is the hardest thing she's ever had to do.

you and i have probably had quite a few relationships, she has had one. this one. it's lasted 13 years. longer than any you or i have had. i can't imagine how heartbreaking and disillusioning that is. i can't imagine how hard it would be to see outside that. so if she was a bit self-involved, i think she's got cause.
bunnyb
However, the content of the post that was deleted was that she and mr pugs have agreed to get married soon so, no, I don't think she is coming to terms with the breaking down of a thirteen years relationship. The other parts of the post were about the problems they are experiencing because of the female friend of mr pugs and him potentially never wanting children.

GT, I completely see your PoV. I sympathise with the emotional turmoil that's pugs is going through; I couldn't bear to imagine the pain of a relationship breaking down like that. However, pugs and mr pugs are back together, moving on together and -I presume- trying to work out the many problems they are having and yet pugs posts in an environment where she knows she is going to receive a lot of opinions, but tries to filter out the ones that don't agree with her and what she's not doing. Pugs isn't posting (or posting and then deleting) because people are not agreeing with the choices she is making. By withdrawing she is courting sympathy (amongst those who care) and she will receive and write PMs that contain only positive support.

Her bratty comment to me, that she could count on me? completely expected but out of line. I was the one who drew pugs out to put it all out there before the wedding was postponed and I was one of many who said that the wedding should be postponed so I'm not sure what it is that she can count me on ... saying something the doesn't want to hear? If you are not willing or prepared to receive all-round feedback then don't post on a public forum! Requesting that you only hear good things because of your fragility doesn't work and is incredibly insulting.

It's not that I don't like that my advice isn't being heeded, I'm not emotionally vested in this and she's entitled to make her own choices but I don't like the drama: she posts, everybody replies/fawns over her/she dislikes most of it/goes away and lives her choices for while before making new choices/comes back and seeks validation for those choices. I am not part of pugs' personal pep squad.

As for her contribution: perhaps in the past but now pugs contributes things that are only self-serving.

GT, I don't want this to affect us; I've spoken out because I've had enough of pugs' drama and using the lounge but now I've vented I'm bored. Also, this is giving pugs attention and I'm not playing that game.
girltrouble
don't worry, bunny, i am not taking this personally, i still adore you, but i disagree with you.

before i get into the meat of what you are saying, i think pugs "bratty comment" was a direct result of the hostility in your post. go back and re-read your post. it is seething with anger. pugs was already vulnerable and you basically attacked her out of frustration. then feeling hurt, or suspecting that what you were saying about her was true (although, i think her intention was not the one you assign to her), she deleted it. after which you take an opportunity to attack her again. honestly, bunny, i think she's justified, and her comment did not merit your name calling.

even if pugs and the mr are back together, it is only a matter of time before that comes apart too. i don't say that with any sort of glee. i think pugs has grown up too much, seen too much. she suspects that mr and that woman have fooled around, and my guess is they have, and eventually mr will confess that they had during that period they were apart, but he will not tell her it is on going. that point is moot, the fact is, he has cheated emotionally, and that is something that she will see in time. he is not the man she thought he was, and if that is now, or a year or ten is up to pugs. but she will get there. the reason she went back to him, whether she knows it or not is because she's scared. she doesn't see that she's strong enough to be on her own, she can't see that pugs that we know out there, five years out that knows leaving mr was the best thing she's ever done. she's never been an adult on her own and it terrifies her. she can't see that he's hurting her, and she's hurting herself. so she goes back. but maybe that's what she needs. she needs to have this illusion of her relationship with the mr. ruined completely, till she has no choice but to go. we've all gone back to a relationship we knew we shouldn't have. we go till what we have closed our eyes to has been made utterly clear. we go back until we learn that we should have listened to our gut, we go back until we see what and why everyone told us not to go back. because we need to. because we need to learn that lesson the hard way.

don't be mad at pugs for going back, she's never broken up with anyone, she hasn't learned those hard knock lessons you and i have. if anything be more generous to her, have pity on her. and hope that she comes to her senses soon, and not in 20 years and a messy, ugly divorce.

i'm not being soft on pugs, i am sure she will probably read my posts, but i am sure she knows i care very deeply for her, and i know she knows what i am saying to be true. but i know she feels like she needs to do this, knowing that she is making her own mistake. i understand that, i guess i am the sort that i take advise when i choose, but when i know it is a mistake i need to make i do that, knowing it will hurt, and i will not like it and i could take the easy road. i know i need to do it.

that said i find it stunning that you dismiss her calling her wedding off so easily. even if she does get back together and marry him (god forbid), the amount of shit, and shame, and humiliation she's had to endure from friends and family was no small thing, i can assure you.


look, i understand your loss of patience, and distaste for the post/hug response, but we are here to support each other in part. i hope that you never have something happen so horribly monumental in your life that you can see nothing else, and ask for support. i say this with no mean spirit, but one of sadness. pugs has not been posting here everyday looking for more and more petting. it's been a while since she posted, and i suspect because she was afraid she would get the sort of response you offered. this is an ongoing situation, and there isn't a statute of limitations on it.
bunnyb
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Mar 15 2009, 08:55 PM) *
that said i find it stunning that you dismiss her calling her wedding off so easily. even if she does get back together and marry him (god forbid), the amount of shit, and shame, and humiliation she's had to endure from friends and family was no small thing, i can assure you.
look, i understand your loss of patience, and distaste for the post/hug response, but we are here to support each other in part. i hope that you never have something happen so horribly monumental in your life that you can see nothing else, and ask for support. i say this with no mean spirit, but one of sadness. pugs has not been posting here everyday looking for more and more petting. it's been a while since she posted, and i suspect because she was afraid she would get the sort of response you offered. this is an ongoing situation, and there isn't a statute of limitations on it.


Where did I dismiss her cancelling the wedding? That was probably one of the hardest things to do but it was the right thing. I have never dismissed it. We do disagree about this, it is highly doubtful we will ever bring each other around to the others way of thinking, but the only point I feel the need or want to defend myself on (the hostility, name-calling etc I don't care about; I said I was pissed off and I had a right to be. I am not the only one, GT) is the accusation of dismissing the pain of cancelling the wedding. What kind of opinion do you have of me girltrouble that you would think that? I don't know how you have misconstrued that. You know, I really don't care what pugs thinks of me, I don't hold her in high regard - I empathise with her situation, of course, and truly do worry about her but I think she has come across as selfish and ungrateful to busties and their support, or at least to me, so I've withdrawn it - but I don't want to come off as callous.

eta: as for your last point, the straw that broke the camel's back for me and which still does piss me off is that she is asking for a support that isn't real, she's asking for hugs to feel better (which I do appreciate) and validation of her choices but she won't permit or listen to anything that isn't sugarcoated. Can you not see how deluded and insulting to busties that is? it includes your advice, gt, because that's not nicey-nicey either - it's truthful, brutal even, but from the heart. For fuck's sake, asking us not to tell it like it is is asking us not to be ourselves.
LoveMyPugs
you are all absolutely right...i'm scared
starship
ok i read the post but didn't reply because it's clearly one of those situations where everyone can see the blindingly obvious, except for the one person who really matters. which is frustrating, i agree. Anyway, i didn't think it was attention-seeking in the slightest. It was a copy of an email pugs had sent to her therapist describing and summarising everything that had been going on in her relationship lately, followed by the the little 'go gentle on me' note that was quoted. i dont think that was her saying she doesnt want or respect our opinions, i think it was her saying she knows damn well what our opinions are going to be and feels a little bit silly for not being able to accept it herself. But yknow what, its hard to let go sometimes and just because she doesnt do as we advise, yet still asks for advice, doesnt mean that shes seeking attention. I love this Board to bits but have to admit quite alot of it is rather self-indulgent and egotistical, so i can't quite see the sense of slamming someone for er posting about their relationship in a relationship thread.
If you're frustrated by it and not emotionally invested i dont see why you didnt just ignore it and let her be, like i did, instead of making her feel she can't post here. it's a friggin forum! the only other reason i could think of is jealousy/bitterness over all the time and support people have been offering her
girltrouble
bunny, when you talk about pugs ignoring busties advise, and emphasizing that she is getting back with the mr, it seems to me a slight of the hard choices and the listening that pugs has done.

look, i get that you were frustrated with pugs, but i really don't see that she was ungrateful. if someone choses not to take advise i give, i do not take that as ungrateful-- they are not under any contractual obligation to do what i suggest. further, if someone tells me about their situation, i do not take it as them screaming for attention, but rather, sounding things out, speaking out loud.


i'm sorry bunny, i find the idea that because pugs hasn't been posting as fervently in the past that she has no right for support from people i'm sure she thinks of as friends. because you haven't posted in a book thread does that mean i am entitled to attack you in the film thread because you like romance films, and i do not? of course not.

i think we need to disabuse ourselves of this idea that we have a right to police a thread for that. these are organic things that change with events from real life. the only reasons, to me to come down on a person is if they don't follow the rules, or they attack someone.

so you don't hold pugs in high esteem. in that case block her. there are posters who i dislike, and i block them. i don't go into threads that they frequent, because it is not interesting to me. i do consider her a friend, and i do hold her in high esteem. i would like to know how she is, and what is going on with her.
as for pugs' post and things you said were in it. i understand how you would find that irritating. i do, i didn't read the post so i can't speak to what she said. but understand where she was coming from. for good or ill, she is doing what makes her feel safe, she comes here and sounds it out, as much to hear her own voice say it and see how it feels, to speak honestly among people she sees as peers and friends-- and at that point you are attacking her. let's say for the sake of argument that her post was meant more to hear how it sounds than anything else. chances are, even though she is heading in that direction, it leaves a bad taste in her mouth. at a point where that realization could sink in, and make her make a different choice, she is distracted by the attack. wounded, she stays away. you may not see it, but i think that is a loss for the lounge. she gives a lot to this place in spirit, heart and gentleness. in a lot of ways i see her like a very young rosey. so with her loss, what have either her our we gained?

my point is that i have enough faith in her that she will eventually make the right choice. she may do some falling down, her knees may get scraped up a bit, but we have to allow her that. this is her first relationship, and i think that means we have to be a bit more gentle with her. i'm not saying that we bite our tounge with her, if she posts, we are under no contractually obligated agreement to not tell them what we think, but as busties, as people who share this space, i think it hurts us not at all to pause and consider their fragility when they alert us to it.

i don't ask that we not be ourselves, just that we be our better selves, and give her, and others, a bit more consideration with their situation. lord knows i've been a jackass round here. i guess i just want to try a different way.
roseviolet
Let's get back on track, shall we?

I honestly don't know if there's anything new, fresh, or insightful I can say to you, Pugs. I don't know if you want us to help you find the strength to leave or help you come to terms with staying. I must admit to you that I feel that you will live a far healthier, happier, fuller life if you leave Mr. Pugs and follow your spiritual needs. Be warned that anything I say to you is going to be rooted in that opinion.


QUOTE(LoveMyPugs @ Mar 15 2009, 08:11 PM) *
you are all absolutely right...i'm scared


It's perfectly normal for a person in your position to feel scared. That fear can be paralyzing & keep you from moving forward. So how do you move past the fear? Well, that varies from person to person. I know a lot of people who find anger to be a great motivator. Over time, they become so furious & resentful that they leave. They feed off the anger & it pushes them forward. I'm sure that's not the only option. Perhaps other Busties can share their own experiences & tell us what got them to finally take the leap to freedom.

As for me? I don't know what the straw was that broke the camel's back. I think I just needed time. After many horrendously painful months, there was a day when I suddenly thought, "I don't have to do this anymore," and it was as if my eyes were opened for the very first time. During the months leading up to that moment, a dear friend asked me an intriguing question:
"What would you do if you weren't scared?"
I immediately knew the answer. It just took me a little while to act on it.
kittenb
QUOTE
I honestly don't know if there's anything new, fresh, or insightful I can say to you, Pugs. I don't know if you want us to help you find the strength to leave or help you come to terms with staying. I must admit to you that I feel that you will live a far healthier, happier, fuller life if you leave Mr. Pugs and follow your spiritual needs. Be warned that anything I say to you is going to be rooted in that opinion.


I have to agree with the sentiment here. And if what is being looked for is the support to make a choice that most of the respondents are known to be against, I am not sure what else we can do.
LoveMyPugs
i'm saying this with all sincerity and not to cause drama or to get pity. i'm not coming back to bust. i'm going to make a real clean break of the relationship i have with this board. i've always been the poster who seems to go against the grain. i make a lot of people angry. many people don't like me. to be honest i don't enjoy bust like i used to. i think it's time we all moved on and by that i mean me not coming back here. i probably will marry mr. pugs. i know EVERYONE including you GT thinks that is a huge mistake. i'm sorry you all feel that way. i can't be with him and love him and still post here knowing that you all are judging my decision so harshly. bunnyb you are way harsh girl. i mean really cold. you really don't understand my situation. i've never had a broken heart before. most women have had several by the time they are my age. i was content in my life. i thought things were complete for us. we'd get married, have kids and grow old together. imagine living in a house all your life and knowing that it's paid off and you are set for life and then one day it burns to the ground with everything you ever loved inside is now ashes. that's what my life feels like when i think about leaving mr. pugs. you don't understand that. i don't think you can understand that. i think your heart and mind are too independent. a friend of mine said, "Never give your heart away. Share it. But never give it away." I think that is sad and bitter. call this drama, call it what you want. i probably will lurk but i won't allow myself to post again. i just won't. good bye bust.
roseviolet
Well, Pugs, as I said before, it's your life. You have to make your own decisions.

Good luck & god bless. Remember that if you change your mind, you're still welcome here.
starship
busties can be such self-righteous asses sometimes
roseviolet
Starship (and others), if you want to fight and name-call, I suggest you move that conversation to the appropriate thread: Take It Outside.

Remember that there are other Busties out there - people like Jupiteregg & Ghosting - who are in pain & turn to this thread for emotional support. Let's keep this thread a safe place for them.
kittenb
Moved b/c I think Roseviolet is right.
girltrouble
pugs, i see that you are hurt, partially by my comments, but i want you to understand what i am saying: i have watched you start to really come into your own, in the last year or so you have grown so much. if there is one single reason i think that going back to r is wrong, it's because i think you are selling yourself short. you are taking all of that growth, and throwing it all away. since i have known you, since you have started posting here i had a sense of that person you could be, and i have seen that you have started to see glimpses of that amazing pugs you could be. but that person doesn't come without some pain, some seriously scary ground work, and it's not fun. but it's worth it in the sense of self you gain. in making the choice to leave r, you were starting that work.

honestly-- i think you are too good for mr, pugs. i do. you are this bright shiny heart, and in the last 6 months you have seen the cracks in that dream that you've had for the last 13 years. in your heart, you've been afraid that it's not really what you want. that pugs isn't the perfect man, and the relationship has a lot of problems, some of them unsurmountable. you checked with people and they confirmed what you knew but were afraid to say. so you took a huge step and called off the wedding. something i find so brave, so courageous, and i was so completely proud of you. i know how hard that must have been for you. r has been your partner for more than half of your life. but you were looking at things truthfully, and you weren't liking what you were seeing. and, i think you were being honest with yourself, and you chose to walk away.

i'll tell you, i thought it was the best thing you could have done. you have been working on yourself so hard and making so much progress, you had gained so much self confidence. when you first started posting here, i think you thought r was your better half, you had so little good to say about yourself, but that has changed so much... and your growth was astounding. it seemed so clear to me that part of what was going on is that you were quickly outgrowing r. before he towered above you, you were so starry eyed about him, but lately, you have seen him clear eyed, and you looked in the mirror and saw your own virtues, and he wasn't so big anymore, instead you saw how fantastic you were... and you realized you didn't really need him. that really, you could not only survive without him, but that there was a whole world you'd kept yourself from, a world to learn about, and the prospect of more growing wasn't so scary.... it seemed good.

but then you realized you'd be alone for a while. that terrified you. you didn't know anything else. you became afraid that no one would ever love you. not like he had. and had to be around him everyday. and you missed those little things, like his arm around you at night, and you became small again. you saw only your flaws, you listened to your fears instead of your faith...

you may not like that i think going back to r is a bad idea. i can understand that. i can understand why you wouldn't want to post in the lounge anymore, who wants to listen to know-it-alls, or, if it falls apart hearing people say i told you so. nobody likes that. easier not to post. hell, i can understand why you are going back to him too. it's the easy thing, instant gratification. all of that loneliness, gone, all of the worry, the fear gone. i get it. i was just hoping that you would choose yourself. that you could see all of the great things, that potential i know you have. i think a lot of busties feel that way about you, pugs. you may not want to hear it, but i think you are better than even you know, and in going back to r, you are giving up on you.

and chickie, i was, i AM, rooting for you.

much love,
-gt
roseviolet
(((((((((ghosting)))))))))))
hcbeck
QUOTE(ghosting @ Mar 16 2009, 04:12 PM) *
i'll probably be posting here a lot over the next little while. hope you can bear with me - i can use your advice.


Whatever you need is fine with us. Others who have similar tales to tell as you will benefit too.

Preemptive ((<{[((ghosting))]}>))


...truly
kittenb
ghosting - don't worry about us not being able to get together. I went to the restaraunt w/other friends. I hope you managed to have some fun in the city. It was a lovely weekend. smile.gif
tankgirl
Before reading all of these new responses I want to say this. I read what Pugs wrote. What I saw there was a woman who has been in a very long relationship that is flip flopping ending and "playing house" as she calls it. I have been in a very similar situation. I was in a 8 year relationship/engagement that started when I was 13 years old. When we went through our initial melt down, it played out almost EXACTLY how Pugs is describing her situation right now. In my situation it reached a dramatic breaking point where things got physical in an otherwise non physically abusive relationship and I can honestly say that I am glad it happened because it was what I needed to get the fuck out.

Yes, I sympathize with Pugs. The reason I didn't have anything but hugs and hopes for her is because there is nothing I can say that will bring her and Mr Pugs to the point where they need to make the ultimate decision. I don't even know if her relationship will change and get better, no one here does. I just hope she can keep herself together and realize that sometimes when things end it's for the better and if they don't end, I sure hope you two work things out instead of just pretending they don't exist by "playing house" because that is never good. I say this as someone who did the "live together for convenience, separate rooms one night the next change our minds thing. It's rough.

I also want to say, I don't care if any of you think that I just coddled her. I think this is a very difficult mind fuck of a situation to be in, and it sucks that she has to be in it. It sucks that anyone would have to experience that. But, we make our own choices, we pay our own prices.
jupiteregg
My dad and step mom called to ask when WE would be coming to visit. They live about a half hour away. I have really dreaded telling my parents that their daughter's marriage is a failure. It finally had to come out when they asked if we had been together this last weekend. All I could say is that she doesn't want to be together anymore. I said she's like a different person. My family is not particularly emotional touchy feely. I still haven't told my mom because my ex blames a lot of our split up on her. I expect mom will say something backhanded.
Then my first instinct is to press 2 on my phone and call her which is what I did. She said "sorry" and wanted to know what I said. Then she had a headache so I hung up. I don't know why I thought she could make me feel better.
Oh fuck. Now this damn song comes on the radio. She said she liked it when were were just separated. It's about some dude that "needs more time, but we'll be fine."
i don't understand why I'm suddenly unlovable after 10 fucking years.
Does anyone know a decent book on lesbian break-ups? Not that it's really different. Love is love and mine up and left me.
Sorry about being self-centered right now. She keeps saying i need to get out of my head.
Persiflager
((jupiteregg))

There's no need to apologise. Be as self-centred as you like, and don't listen to your ex - you need to take care of yourself right now.

What's your living situation right now? Has she moved out?
jupiteregg
My partner moved out during our "trial separation." I moved to the middle of nowhere about a month ago. It's a complete pigsty because I just don't give a shit anymore. Everything here is "ours" from the bed to the juice cups. Last night I freaked out and sent some stupid texts again. I told her I hated her which is a lie of course. She always loved St. Patrick's. I miss the smell of corned beef and cabbage. Everything I hate about myself is magnified. I'm constantly picking apart all my faults. I know I shouldn't do that, but I just can't stop which just makes me feel worse.
jupiteregg
I feel like I'm losing my mind. I'm up and down and upside down. I pissed my ex off with all my texts last night. I guess I just wanted to know if she could still feel anything. I apologized profusely today. I feel like a teenager again or maybe Ike Turner. She just tells me that she is fucked up and doesn't know who she is anymore and that she wants me to move on. It's not fair to ask me to wait. I told her that marriage is a commitment and I am supposed to be here to help her through this. I would expect no less from her if our roles were switched. She has plenty of reasons to walk out. She says I have no boundaries with my mother which is true. I let her stay with us for 5 months when she was homeless. My mother usually treats my partner like shit and she says I didn't stand up for her. I tried. My partner came to me to tell me my mom was ruining our marriage, but I knew mom would be leaving in a few days and I thought we could work on things then. We also had a small LBD (lesbian bed death) issue, Something I thought we should be able to work on as well. I've been on prozac for years and it kind of kills the libido. I'm also broke, tired, and over-weight. It was just a hard time for me, but I never thought it would stay like that. When we did have sex she thought it was forced. I usually have to force myself to get started, but it all works out in the end. wink.gif
After our conversation today I got a text that said to give her a few days and let her call me when she's ready. I don't know what that means. She already told me it's over. I already took off my wedding ring and turned our wedding photo around. I just can't help holding onto some hope things will work out. I'm not ready to let go of the future we had planned together. If you made it to the end of this, I'm sorry if this sounds more like a journal than a post. I don't know why I want to share this with all of you. Usually I'm very private.
I'm sorry to all my fellow posters going through break-ups. It's really hard and I send you all my warmest thoughts.
Persiflager
((jupiteregg))

Is there anyone you can stay with for a few days, maybe a friend or some other family member (not your mother)? It's going to really hard for you to think straight when you're surrounded by all your joint possessions.

I know that you desperately want to talk to her, but it doesn't sound like it's helping at the moment - see all our posts in the last few pages on tips to stop yourself calling (post-it notes on the phone, turning your phone off etc).
girlygirlgag
Pugs, I hope you are okay. Take Care, if you read this.

Only you know what to do, and I think if anything, you've learned that sometimes sharing everything with the internet is not the best road to go down. I learned that once, too.

Best wishes,

GGG
kittenb
QUOTE
After our conversation today I got a text that said to give her a few days and let her call me when she's ready. I don't know what that means.


I think it means what she is saying here. She needs a break. She needs to get her head on straight. I know that you are trying and fighting for your relationship here, but she is just getting driven further and further away by your efforts. Step back, take a breather, follow the steps that Persiflager mentions below. Be good to yourself!
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