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rainface
I've been taking amoxicillin for the past week for a nasty, nasty throat/ear infection and this morning, despite my careful yogurt/probiotic use, I woke up with a yeast infection and raised red bumps all over my inner thighs, upper arms, stomach and chest. No more amoxicillin for me!
yondergirl
Hi ladies,
I'm also posting on the UTI thread because I have both. I'm on antibiotics for the UTI and have been for a long time - when I tried to come off the suppression dose I was on it came back super strong. So now I'm back on a full dose 4 pills a day - but how do I do probiotics around this schedule? They're best taken on an empty stomach four hours after an antibiotic, right? Do I wake myself up in the night? There just ain't enough hours in the day. I'm loading up on the cultured yoghurts and veggies too.
Yonder
prvtpuss
rainface - the rash you're getting from the amoxicillin is pretty common, but if your tonsils are really swollen or you see some white stuff on them, you should get checked out for mononucleosis. i think the stats are about 5-15% of young people taking amoxicillin get a mild rash, but almost 100% of mononucleosis patients react to amoxicillin with a severe rash.

sorry, i guess this is offtopic at this point. good luck!
chachaheels
Yondergirl, any body that can create a resurgence of symptoms after those symptoms have been suppressed is a healthy, vital body that is capable of curing itself of the problem. Suppression is no way to eliminate illness--it's a surefire way to create more serious illnesses, however, so be happy your symptoms return whenever you stop using the suppressive drugs.

If you're being treated with a "suppression" dose for your UTI and your body's clearly fighting against it, consider taking an approach to support your body's obviously capable efforts to heal itself instead.

I'm sure you took probiotics, but MDs don't know this: the kind of probiotics you take off the shelf in the store WILL NOT restore the human microflora in the gut after antibiotics have wiped them out. Those formulations are for people who are in excellent health, and they're just meant to maintain that health since we no longer eat the foods which would have supplied these organisms to us (we pasteurize milk products of all kinds, and lactofermentation to create foods is rarely done anymore....so most of us with no access to these real foods have no other option but to supplement to stay healthy now). There is just too little of the live organisms in those formulations, and often the strains of live cultures are either inappropriate, genetically modified (beware, Activia Yogurt Eaters) or far too inadequate. You must get a product that is practitioner driven (not all health food stores or pharmacies will carry these as they are usually only sold through naturopaths, homeopaths, and nutritional counsellors--rarely directly to the public) and formulated to counteract the deep and long lasting detrimental effects of the antibiotics. These formulations have more than 12 to 20 billion live microorganisms present per dose, and the culture strains are l. acidophilus and l.bifidum. The source of those cultures matters dramatically, too. The very best source is from the human gut, not necessarily from dairy.

Try this one formulation made by Genestra/Seroyal callled HMF Forte Replete. It's a formulation that comes in 7 sachets, you take one sachet daily. The long course of antibiotic treatment you've been on means you will need at least 2 weeks worth of this treatment to help you actually restore what's been killed off (important) and help enable those live cultures to establish themselves and begin supplying your body with the nutrients it has been unable to absorb from your food. Once this happens, you'll be done with the UTI in no time. The genestra formulation is a life saver for those who've been on long term or very aggressive anti-biotic treatment, chemotherapy, or radiation therapy. It really makes a difference between getting the body to actually regain its strength or suffer without it completely.

You can find this product by putting the name in Google--there are many on-line suppliers who sell it quite reasonably and they do provide the product to the general public (as most people only find out about these products from practitioners anyway).

As for how to take them, it's best that you take this product once you are off the Anti-biotics. (otherwise, you're wasting your money because the antibiotics will just kill off the live cultures from the supplement as well as those in your gut). Reconsider suppression...finish your course to make your MDs happy, then get on with what you need to do to restore your health with the HMF.

Good luck!
yondergirl
Thanks Chacha...yikes. It takes a big leap of faith to consider stopping the dose altogether...I've not been able to work for the past few months - as well as the UTI I had surgery in June to remove a uterine fibroid - and am starting a new job Oct 1. I'd really rather not be running to the restroom every 20 mins!

I had a bad experience a while back when a naturopath I was working with advised against taking something my doctor prescribed. I didn't take it but ended up in the ER a month later...Logically I know that staying on antibiotics longterm is not a great idea, but my instinct is still to do what the doctors say. Any advice on how to recover lost faith in my own ability to heal?
chachaheels
Well, I haven't much experience on the faith in your own abilities to heal yourself. Faith in anything is either something you see or don't see. When I readwhat you're writing, it's clear to me your body's capable enough, because it keeps making the same symptoms take place in the same location. It's when your symptoms stop returning while you're using suppressive therapies that you should start to worry.

All I'm doing is informing you that you have other options. If you want to use probiotics, you have to use specific kinds; if you wish to use them at all they simply won't be effective when you're on an antibiotic treatment of any kind. Those are just facts. If you have the option to finish your course of treatment with anti-biotics, then that's what you can do. Once you're no longer taking them, opt for the heavy probiotics so you can start to restore your health.

As for your experience with a Naturopath, I can't say much there either other than there are good naturopaths and then there are those who are not so good--just as there are good MDs and poor ones, etc etc. in any field. Naturopathy's not the way I'd choose to go about healing myself, just because I'm not in complete agreement with the medical philosophy to which they subscribe. In my opinion, they view the body in the same way as conventional medical doctors, but they use non-pharmaceutical drugs instead of pharmaceuticals and surgery. They operate in the same paradigm, though, and I see that as basically flawed. So I tend to choose treatment options that focus on a vitalist paradigm as opposed to a purely material one. I find they are effective whereas the materialist based methods consistently fail.

In any case, I would have wished your ND gave you an alternative to whatever it is your MD suggested, instead of just telling you not to use the prescription drug and not addressing the health concern with other options. There are other reasons why these things happen between practitioners and patients, too: lack of communication, patient ineducation about the modality being used (and often the lack of awareness about the committment they have to make to things like lifestyle change, self knowledge and self awareness, removal of all maintaining causes of disease, the importance of continued communication in order to maintain case management...which is foreign to so many people because MDs know little about case management and rarely conduct it...etc. etc. etc.).

I wish you the best whatever you decide to do...and as always, I recommend homeopathic medicine because it is so effective...so if you wish to explore that option I can certainly refer you to all kinds of resources. Hope you are well soon.

rainface
Prvtpuss...you're right, when I woke up with a rash I researched the heck out of reactions online. I guess it's also possible to get a rash in response to strep. I tested negative for both mono and strep before they gave me antibiotics. My mom is allergic to penicillin, I guess she reacted the same way in her early 20's before she stopped taking it. My blotches have faded today, now I'm just light pink huh.gif I had to wear a long sleeve, high neck shirt to work. The yeast infection, on the other hand, is hanging in there. I know I can apply plain yogurt directly to my girl parts, anyone have any tips for the least messy way to do it?
lapis
yondergirl,
I was on trimethoprim for about three months straight to prevent uti's. I think my body is still recovering--it was really hard on my system. That was about 5 years ago, and I have never had another one. But I believe I had a kidney infection after taking that. I have found that cranberry pills, made of crushed up cranberries, like Eclectic institute's pills, can prevent uti's as well without the crazy side effects. It can be really scary to let go of the treatments, but through many cycles of uti's, yeast, pcos, and bv, I have never found prescription drugs to work very well and am really healthy now. Also, have you thought about dietary changes, like cutting out refined sugar and junk food? Good luck.
chachaheels
Rainface, I think you are probably just like your mother, allergic to the penicillin type antibiotics. Might be good to stear clear of them and ask your doctor for anti-b's which won't set off your sensitivities.

You can apply plain yogurt in a douche or you can apply capsules with live acidophilus and bifidus cultures into the vagina. That's simpler and less messy.

Personally, I've never heard of it working as well as using boric acid suppositories, though. And the real benefit of the live cultures in yogurt come from having them in your gut, where they act to enable you to absorb the nutrients you need to have from your food. When that happens, your body can actually eliminate the yeast infection on its own. Any kind of benefit they might have topically is actually pretty limited, unless you've got them re-established in the gut as well. Eating yogurt to accomplish that is, unfortunately, not enough.

But you might really benefit from kind of probiotic product like the one I mentioned below. And using something very effective, topically (such as the boric acid) to get you out of the painfulness of the yeast.
prvtpuss
rainface, regarding yeast infections, i'm a big fan of yoghurt (orally and vaginally), teatree oil pessaries, and probiotics (oral and vaginal) - THE TRIFECTA! the vaginal yoghurt application is pretty messy no matter what, i know some people make frozen yoghurt "pops" to use as vaginal suppositories, which is supposed to feel good for the burning and itching, just make sure it's PLAIN YOGHURT (as adding sugar to the yeast party is a very bad idea). i just put a scoop of refrigerated cool plain organic yoghurt inside me and put on some thick granny underwear!

when i make a teatree pessary, i usually pop open a vitamin E capsule (better than just vit E oil, as i believe the vit E oxidizes out of the oil rather quickly, leaving you with a bottle of vit.E-less oil), smear the vit.E oil on an O.B. tampon, then put the teatree oil on that and then insert the tampon vaginally. i wouldn't leave it in too long (an hour or two?). Teatree can burn if you get it on your vulva, especially if your skin is torn and inflamed, so be a little cautious to get the tampon in quickly and don't overdo it - start off cautiously, i suppose. teatree oil acts as a fungicide. i'd love to hear other people's versions of teatree oil pessaries if they feel inclined to share.

i think there have been enough posts on the topic of probiotics, so i'll just say i take them orally and then break one or two open and try to get it all inside my vag (i'm not a fan of putting the capsule in). i suggest doing a bit of research when it comes to probiotics. i know there are some studies out there comparing the actual contents of different brands (some don't have all they advertise). when i have more time, i'll find some studies and post the links or maybe a summary.

and don't forget to cut out all sugars and foods that are high on the glycemic index (white bread, potato, etc), and no alcohol!

sorry if i'm just repeating what everyone in this forum has already said, as i know this is a group of well-informed ladies.

good luck!
VanillaXtraDry
prvtpuss - i'm glad i read your reply...i'm experiencing a yeast infection right now and refuse to use those vaginal cream inserts - who thought putting that inside of you would feel like an electric shock going through your vagina?? and i can take pain damn well, but not that stuff.

do any of the treatments you listed have that nutty "electric shock" effect? probably not, but had to ask....
chachaheels
Electric shock! Yikes. I've never heard of that "feeling", but if that's what you're experiencing then your skin is far too sensitive for whatever is in those creams, and is very likely overly irritated by them. That can't be good, except it is a good indicator that you must not use those treatments.

Just chiming in to suggest that if you can get Boric Acid suppositories or pessaries made up for you at a compounding pharmacy, (you should get a one or two week supply, at two pessaries per day, each pessary containing 600mg or Boric Acid) they are far more effective than anything else (according to patients I've worked with and also according to other naturopaths who report success in their use with their patients). It's relatively inexpensive, it's safe and effective, and it works not by "wiping out" yeast but by supporting your own body's very powerful efforts to eliminate the infection on its own. Boric acid has been used to treat vaginal ailments such as yeast and other infections for over a hundred years.

Many women on here have found a commercial product called Yeast Arrest (I believe) which is similar to the Boric acid you can get made up for you, but I understand it contains a lot of other ingredients you most likely may not need. It's available at health food stores and online...but I know it will cost more than the compounded product (but not everyone has access to a compounding pharmacy...those most of these now do business online too).

I also want to stress that all these "treatments" only get rid of the symptoms but the infection will come back if the "terrain" of the body isn't changed...so you do have to think about making changes in order to stop being susceptible to this illness. Getting rid of all kinds of processed and refined foods and breads and hydrogenated/hydrolyzed/chemically processed fats is a must as a necessary change in the diet...but adding various foods will also help. I've posted alot of these suggestions on here in the past so i won't repeat myself...but feel free to PM me if you'd like some good resources in terms of dietary changes to make. Dietary change and symptom treatment are a good start to ensuring you don't get yeast again, ever; the more holistic changes you have to make are easier to address once you're feeling better and stronger.
prvtpuss
QUOTE(VanillaXtraDry @ Oct 8 2007, 05:18 AM) *
prvtpuss - i'm glad i read your reply...i'm experiencing a yeast infection right now and refuse to use those vaginal cream inserts - who thought putting that inside of you would feel like an electric shock going through your vagina?? and i can take pain damn well, but not that stuff.

do any of the treatments you listed have that nutty "electric shock" effect? probably not, but had to ask....


VanillaXtraDry
hmmmmm electric shock?!? i do know that i don't respond well to the inserts and cream - horrible burning and itching - truly terrible. umm... if the mucus membrane of your vulva is really broken and inflamed, the teatree oil will burn like hell if you get it on the outer vulva - that's why i stress carefully getting the pessary directly and deeply inside your vagina, and bypassing any external skin. yoghurt ALWAYS feels good, i've never had any burning. it's just like a lovely coolness (that later turns into grody clumpiness, but is well worth it). and the probiotics don't bother me at all either.

HAS ANYONE TALKED ABOUT THE ACIDOPHILUS PEARLS? they are designed to make it past the acid of your stomach and deliver the goods to your intestines. my mom just sent them to me, but i haven't needed to take them.

also (i'm sure everyone says this constantly) wear cotton panties, blow dry your puss with the cool setting on the hair dryer after showering/bathing, and wear loose clothing and no underwear if you can get away with it!! and cut out refined sugars, etc!

good luck!!!

s.
Porn Star
QUOTE(Moonpieluv @ Mar 7 2007, 11:31 AM) *
Have you scanned through all of this thread? Cha-cha gives some really great tips.

Oregano oil, Boric, yogurt. I think it really comes down to supporting your bodie's overall health, as well as knowing the triggers.... for ex, I get them from stress, not being used to frequent sexual intercourse, sweaty undies, etc.

Have your sis read this thread through, it's really very helpful.

I would love if she could recommend me some diet because I want to loss weight and I don't know what to use so I wont put more after I will stop the diet. Thanks.
chachaheels
prvt puss, all acidophilus has to be enteric coated. The Pearls you're talking about (the brand name you're referring to) is really not different from any other acidophilus daily supplement except that they don't require refrigeration. This makes them portable. Jarrow makes a similar product...they make things like traveling much easier.

All the consumer product lines in acidophilus supplements now are switching their formulation coatings so that you don't have to refrigerate these pills at all, and the organisms will survive the hydrochloric acid in our stomachs.

But I do want to stress that the Pearls and other acidophilus consumer targeted supplements are for daily, health maintenance use only. They're really not going to to do you much good at all if you're looking for a way to address yeast infections or other fungal infections using live cultures. You need a much more effective formulation, and depending on what ailment you've got, you need to ensure that particular fermented cultures are in the formulation you choose. Finally, there has to be far more live organisms per dose than you would ever find in the consumer targeted products.

You don't even have to use these supplements (like the Pearls) if you're able to have access to foods such as raw dairy (milk, cream, butter, yogourt, cheeses...all unpasteurized. These are a far superior source of probiotics and prebiotics than any supplement) and if you add lactofermented foods to your diet (such as kombucha, real sauerkraut and pickled foods like kimchi, dill pickles, etc). If you look in the archives of this thread, I've posted a recipe for Beet Kvass which is basically lactofermented beets...one of the best treatments for yeast infections ever. Somehow, the high sugar content of the beets (which keeps the kvass sterile and preserves it) plus the lactofermentation you generate by adding whey to the beets and water enhances nutrient absorption from all your foods exponentially. When your body is definitely getting all the nutrients it needs, it can cure itself of anything...so the Kvass is one of the best things out there for any kind of fungal/yeast overgrowth. Best part: it's inexpensive, natural, and truly necessary for good nutrition anyway, since so many really good foods have been taken out of our diets.

I would also recommend adding fats to your diet as well... particularly coconut oil, if you can get it; real butter made from pasture fed cows' milk that's been unpasteurized, and cod liver oil. All of these fats have nutrients which enable the body to keep fungal growths of all kinds in check.



prvtpuss
chacha, you are totally the probiotic sage! i'm not a serial yeast infection sufferer, so i'm not particularly well-versed in taking acidophilus or other probiotics. i know that we don't get them in our diet the way we used to, before pasteurization and fermentation right? so what kind of health benefits does taking maintenance acidophilus bestow upon us? digestion improvements? or is it prophylactic for yeast infections, BV, etc?

the acidophilus in dairy products (yoghurt, millk) is not enteric coated right? so how did it survive through our digestive systems back before supplements?

so confused, thank you in advance for the info!

s.
rainface
Oh, thank you so much for all the helpful advice ladies... I've cut out sugar and I've been eating a lot of yogurt. The problem now is that my boyfriend and I are passing the yeast back and forth. It's about the sexiest thing to bond over that I can possibly think of. blink.gif
chachaheels
Prvtpuss, I'm not a sage of anything. But I know that in treating patients who suffer from yeast infections and vaginal infections of all kinds, the daily supplement probiotics just don't cut it, but the very high potency formulations make a big difference, especially when we're dealing with people who have severely depleted health. Wish the otc's did, though, because the other formulations which do work are often exponentially more expensive...that can make getting well become hard to afford for a lot of people.

Basically, if I can describe this in a nutshell, the enteric coating is necessary in probiotic supplements simply because we no longer eat the traditional foods that are rich with these cultures. If we were to eat them on an ongoing basis, as a staple of our diets (as they have been for over 800 years...not counting the last 50 years or so when that all changed), we'd be getting them in a variety of foods which would very easily survive digestion's biggest challenges, such as heat and acidity...many would actually only be accessible to the body because of those processes. Without the actual nutrients and chemicals contained in the real foods, the isolated cultures are less likely to survive digestion.

The enteric coating is now necessary because we're deficient and we're trying to restore what's not only been lost in our bodies but also replace what we'd normally be taking in to keep these microflora in existence...but it's actually coming into our bodies not in the familiar food matrix, which would normally ensure we'd get some of these organisms on an ongoing basis(so, in other words, they're coming into the digestive tract without the macronutrients, enzymes, and the vast variety of minerals and vitamins we'd get in the food sources, which would act synergistically to enable the survival of those organisms as well as enhance the digestive process). The supplements isolate the cultures in a way that they'd never enter the body via the traditional foods...so even with the coating, less of the actual microorganisms survive digestion.

The supplements are a substandard way of getting what we need, but a way of making up for what most of us can no longer have, just to maintain good health; most of the otc probiotics formulations can put the organisms in the body but they don't provide the means to help them actually colonize there, so the daily dose strategy is one theoretical way to ensure some organisms will be present to do what's needed. When you're actually treating a form of chronic illness and using probiotics as a strategy, the small amount you'd get from the daily supplement is just not enough to fix the problem, nor is it usually enough to ensure the organisms are not just being replaced but supported enough to continue replicating themselves in the body as well.

A daily dose of probiotics is necessary if you're not going to actively seek out and add those traditional foods to your diet. These organisms don't do a specific thing: but basically, if you want to focus on their biochemical role in the body, they are responsible for nutrient absorption. When they are not present, nutrient absorption is severely limited; and many realities of our daily lives severely deplete these organisms in our bodies. The overuse of antibiotics in food and in our environments--many of which just kill these organisms off completely--has created a big problem with malnutrition in general, especially in countries where foods are very much like the kind we get on our table: produced on a mass scale, in nutrient depleted soils, using bizarrely modified seeds to produce "food" crops out of plants we shouldn't be eating, full of altered macronutrients and drugs which our bodies can't use in the same way as the real foods they are supposed to replace, etc. etc. Though we're not seeing the "typical" signs of starvation you'd normally associate with malnutrition, we are seeing all its other "faces", in the proliferation of chronic diseases which can be avoided and even reversed when nutrient rich foods are restored to the diet, and nutrient absorption problems are eliminated. For many who can't absorb nutrients, this can't always be reversed by dietary change or supplementation. For many other people, however, nutrient absorption is improved significantly if probiotic and prebiotic organism levels are restored in the gut, even if the only way is via daily supplementation.

How does that sound, besides wordy and clunky? I hope it clears up some confusion, anyway.
prvtpuss
no, that sounds absolutely clear! thank you so much, i'm going to pass on your information to my family. my mother has recently begun investigating probiotics. she already eats a rather macrobiotic diet, so she's very open to interesting and nutritive recipes. i'm going to pass along the beet recipe you posted before. thank you for taking the time to write out that explanation, i appreciate it!

s.
chachaheels
You're welcome, PrvtPuss...I wanted to add that these organisms occur in our bodies naturally, as part of healthy gut development which begins just after we're born and we begin to nurse...but with the overwhelming use of anti-biotics in the world now, most people don't have many anymore (one course of full-spectrum anti-biotics will wipe you out for a lifetime if you don't take steps to replace what's been lost).

Just writing that because I just came home from a Staples store, where I saw a pack of pens which were labeled
"'anti-microbial"...so they were plied with anti-biotics too!! Because we need them in our writing instruments too.
olivarria
I’m a lurker in this thread, but I’m really involved right now in researching what I believe to be systemic candida in my body, and thought maybe you ladies might be able to help. When I was in my early teens I was put on round after round of anti-biotics for acne, strep throat, and other infections, and for at least over a year I had a prescription for tetracycline. Also I've made some really bad choices nutrition-wise and have been on a sugar-binge the last couple of months. But now I am having fibromyalgia-like symptoms, such as excruciating pain and stiffness when I wake, which even Advil won't get rid of, just being plain exhausted, chronic severe depression, skin problems, just being really weak, chemically sensitive.......I could go on and on. So I've decided to do something about it and I’ve cut out sugar, all refined carbs, cheese, yeast, food additives, trans-fat, corn, nuts and mushrooms (molds). I’m eating a diet rich in veggies and whole grains.

So I’ve been researching extensively and I’m being given so much conflicting advice. Should I cut out plain yogurt since it contains sugar, or continue to eat it for the pro-biotic benefits? Do I need to cut out dairy totally? Is it necessary for me to cut out yeast or only sugar? And I’m going to take pro-biotics (the ones recommended by Cha Cha) and an anti-candida treatment such as Threelac or Candidol. So my other questions are, 1) do I really need the anti-candida supplement if I’m taking pro-biotics? 2) do they even work, and if so, how do I know which ones to pick? 3) if I choose to eat sugar occasionally (when I’m better) will my symptoms return, or do I have to continue treatment forever? And why do the doctors I see know nothing about systemic candida? Can i still eat potatoes? Sorry I know i am so clueless, but any good advice would be wonderful, because I’ll do pretty much anything to feel better right now. Thank you ladies.
jami
ok. my turn to ask questions. (like I haven't asked for advice before). anyway.
had a yeast infection. really bad one, painful. took two weeks to see the doctor. not a fun time. Dr prescribed meds, and asked if I was in a monogamous relationship. uh, yeah, of course. married for years. 8 days later husband says he wants a divorce. found out two months later he'd been seeing someone. doctor had me to the std and aids testing.
so, yes, I realize yeast infections can occur naturally. however, I have only had one prior in my life, and that was due to my relationship with my financee. (dr said so)
so are there any statistics that I can view which state the getting a yeast infection from a cheating spouse vs gee, your body just mfg'd a yeast infection?
I know now that he was cheating, but didn't then.

and yes, I tested positive for one.
~jami~
prvtpuss
QUOTE(chachaheels @ Oct 12 2007, 09:19 PM) *
Just writing that because I just came home from a Staples store, where I saw a pack of pens which were labeled
"'anti-microbial"...so they were plied with anti-biotics too!! Because we need them in our writing instruments too.


hahahahaaa.... I'm thinking of just laminating my entire body and breathing through a HEPA filter for the rest of my life. Actually, I'm taking microbiology right now and the professor is a total freak (won't touch door handles, etc). I'm finding that med school is making me care less about microbes, since we're all covered in them anyway, you just have to count on your immune system and try to take good care of it.
Lotus0910
Olivarria~
I was diagnosed with BV, only to later have that diagnosis changed to a yeast infection. (After the meds did nothing) I took the new meds, thought I was cured... three months or so go by and I'm Itchy McFirecrotch all over again.

Whenever I thought it gone for good it poped back up. Like you, the lack of energy, chronic pain pain, etc. had become a part of my day to day life. Quite frankly I couldn't imagine not feeling like shit all the time. With that said, I stumbled upon this thread, discovered that this may be Systematic Candidia, and started researching.

Fast forward a month and I have started implementing some of the diet recommendations into my life.. but the most important thing that I've learned is that you must know your own body. What may work wonders for Susie Farkiss could be devastating for you. Dairy can affect people in entirely different ways! Along with everything else that we put into our bodies, for that matter. The best way to get to know your body is to start with a clean slate. Do a body cleanse to flush out all of those icky toxins and replenish your natural PH levels. I would recommend Detoxify brand's body cleanse systems. They are easy to use, and can do wonders in a small amount of time. They also have a great website:

http://www.detoxify.com/


Once you have a clean slate you are ready to make changes to your diet. I found an excellent article when I embarked on this journey that has been an great blueprint. It was written by a woman who battled this foull beast for years before finding something that worked. Again, listen to your body. If you eat something new pay attention to how your body reacts to it. If you get a small bout of the itchies, write down what you ate that day (or the day prior) that may have caused it. Before you know it you will be completely aware of your body and the way that it is affected by your environment. Here's the article that put me on the road to happy crotchville:

http://chetday.com/candida3.html


I have never posted on this thread before, but I want you all to know that this has worked for me (so far). Good Luck!
prvtpuss
QUOTE(olivarria @ Oct 12 2007, 09:57 PM) *
But now I am having fibromyalgia-like symptoms, such as excruciating pain and stiffness when I wake, which even Advil won't get rid of, just being plain exhausted, chronic severe depression, skin problems, just being really weak, chemically sensitive.......I could go on and on.


The diet changes sound good no matter what, especially with the addition of the probiotics. Have you gotten a blood workup done? I would get thyroid hormone levels measured too if I were you.

As far as systemic candidosis (candidiasis), that's something I think you usually only see in immunocompromised individuals (HIV, post-chemo, post-transplant, post-surgery, post-ICU stay). I'm not sure otherwise, so I think that's probably why the docs look at you strangely when you bring it up. Do you have white plaques in the back of your mouth and tongue? And recurrent vaginal yeast infections? I guess I'm wondering what you're experiencing that is pointing you towards systemic candidiasis. Is it the joint pain (arthralgia)? I'm sorry you're experiencing that, I know it must be awful. Which joints hurt the worst? Have you had a fever? Have you had any eye problems? Have you had your blood/urine tested for candida?

I was confused as to why you thought you were suffering from systemic candidiasis, so I just googled around a little and found some websites discussing what has been termed "candidiasis hypersensitivity syndrome" which I must say does not have much credibility in the medical community as an actual disease, but lists the symptoms you mentioned. Keep in mind a syndrome is just a bunch of symptoms they haven't truly found the source of, but that keep popping up in conjunction with each other. It was touted in the 70's and 80's as the reason so many people were tired, achy, moody, depressed, etc., but this hasn't been proven and in fact sounds disturbingly like the pharmaceutical ads these days for anti-depressants. Anyway, I don't know much about this, but it definitely sounds like something is going on and it's not in your head!!!

I'm just a 2nd year med student, so please forgive my diagnostic enthusiasm and understand that I'm not a doctor, but I still recommend you get your thyroid levels tested.

Good luck!

s.
dingey
Howdy!

I just wanted to chime in and say that I get horrible yeasties from any product involving spermicides, so that's something to watch out for.

They can also come about from hormonal fluctuations in the body, which i am beginning to have the joy of experiencing in my early 40's. YAY! The crap they don't bother to tell you in Jr. High health class.....

Anyway, I just wanted to reiterate something that I've only seen one other person mention: GARLIC CLOVES. I swear to god. it sounds nutty, but it's worked like a charm for me and several of my friends. Peel a garlic glove, and tuck it up your cooch. I've read some accounts that say you're supposed to be careful not to nick it because the oil can be slightly irritating to some people, but i deliberately put a nick in it just to get more of the garlic power that battles the yeasties so effectivey.

You can just do it overnight for several nights running, or if you're hardcore like me and want to nip that yeastie in the bud ASAP, insert one for the daytime, too. Granted, you might catch a whiff of garlicky goodness once in a while when you crouch down or whatever, but it's never been strong or noticeable enough to deter me. After 8 - 10 hours, the clove is usually ready to come out. If it's not right there, just bear down a bit when you go to the bathroom to push it to a point where you can reach in and pluck it out.

I've seen several different versions online about the length of time it takes for this cure to work. My version is, do it for as long as it takes. I've had it work completely in 3 days. The worst case was a week of the garlic regimen. I don't think it hurts to do it for one more night after your symptoms stop, just for good measure.
chachaheels
Jami, your post is one I've wanted to address for a few days, precisely because it demonstrates a couple of things I've repeated on these boards over and over again, (for which a few women have actually hated me for saying).

1. Never self-diagnose and self-treat what you think might be a "yeast infection".

You don't know. It looks like at least 5 other conditions including a couple of STDs, and you should just go and take yourself to the doctor and have some tests done. No matter what it costs (cut back on something else that's less important than your health to pay for the diagnostic tests, if you have to--personally people use this excuse so much but when they're telling me they can't afford it, they seem always to allot money for things like expensive hair treatments, shoes, clothing, restaurant meals...etc.).

2. This is what I mean by looking at all your symptoms Holistically.

Often your body will begin to create symptoms because you've become susceptible to an illness as a result of factors that have nothing to do with microbes, or what you're eating, or anything else. In Jami's case....hubby was seeing someone else, and he contracted an STD: but there must have been other "clues" or realities in that relationship, particularly in the sexual nature of that relationship, which were never really addressed or dealt with. There's no way to say, definitively, that Jami would never have come down with the symptoms of STD or yeast if she'd confronted the relationship problem with her hubby...but it certainly might have changed the way things played out in the relationship, which might well have removed the susceptibility to the STD for Jami. That's all speculative, I know: but our bodies ALWAYS tell us something is going wrong in an area of our lives, when we're either aware and in denial, or aware and too fearful to find any solution which could make the situation healthier.

Now, before everyone gets upset: I am NOT SAYING in ANY way, that illnesses like this are our "fault". What I am saying is health and disease are all about quite a lot more than microorganisms and our exposure to them, and that we should never rule out the unhealthy realities of our lives as factors which make us susceptible to illness. Our bodies never do, even if we choose to believe that or not. If we don't address these other "holistic" areas of our lives and how they affect our health, then we end just treating symptoms suppressively (and in Jami's case, a "successfully" silenced group of symptoms would have turned into a case of insidious disease, easily enough, just for an example).

It will often be necessary that these other issues, which are really far more powerful determinants in our full health anyway, be addressed as well.

For what it's worth, Jami, I got my first yeast infection ever when I was seeing a man in what I thought was a fairly serious relationship. I was using the sponge as my form of birth control then because it was reliable, easy to use, etc. I'd used it for many years before starting up with this particular man.

There were many problems in the sexual aspect of our relationship...I was beginning to feel rejected and so on, he was not being very honest with me about things...and I was making an attempt to do what a lot of women would do in such a situation, if they were ready to just "not make waves", which is to believe that I was being "too demanding". Suddenly, I started to get yeast, which I then traced back to the nonoxydol 9 in the sponge (but I'd forgotten that I'd used it for years without any problem, when I'd been in somewhat healthier relationships with other men). I tried all kinds of treatments for it, but nothing worked until I confronted that partner, and ended the relationship with him.

Turns out I'd (not consciously, but over time and via self-doubt, that I'd) given him all kinds of decision making power there--he didn't want to use condoms ever, so I accommodated that, like many women do; he was going to decide when we'd have sex and when we wouldn't; he was going to decide even when we'd see each other and when we wouldn't...and of course, I'd let him do that for a while before I realized what was going on. It's not accidental that I "got sick" with symptoms manifesting in my sex organs...it's where I had my biggest problem with him and until I got sick I wasn't strong enough or aware enough or even brave enough to admit what I'd found myself in.

Soon as I ended the relationship, however, I was able to get better because the treatments suddenly "worked".
jami
chacha...
I'm understanding what you're saying.
before I "got sick" the sex life changed. suddenly. more abusive. verbal, biting, slapping, aggressive. I got vaginal tears, and I stopped the sex 'cause I would rip more. I'd shake with pain when I'd pee. I had to wait two weeks for the doctor. after the miracle pill, I was on my period, so no sex then. once we were able to, he didn't. which was strange, 'cause he can't go three days without, and it had been a month. the next day he said he wanted a divorce and left my son and I. I went back to the doctor, which then said that I needed the full std panel, which I did do.
and they want the full panel again, hiv included in another three months. (I don't understand this - why again?)

but still... (without saying anything about the std) is there anything which shows that a yeast is the result of him infecting me? the infidelity as being the reason for the yeast, and not 'cause it's a natural thing that can happen?

~jami~

chachaheels
Well, that's the thing: yeast is something even healthy bodies live with all the time, and it doesn't cause any problem at all.

So: it's not about finding out whether or not he "gave" you the infection via the transference of yeast...which he had and you have all the time anyway....

It's about how that relationship could have made you susceptible to a yeast overgrowth, which would suddenly be able to take place successfully just because something about the situation depleted you of your ability to maintain your health.

The best way to understand it...and it's clear to me when I read your own writing on it...is that you were aware, on some level, that something was "off". "Wrong". That he was perhaps no longer treating you the same way sexually and emotionally as he had in the past. Many people have relationships with very aggressive and violent sex and power play...and actually increase their intimacy and feelings of love for each other because of that interaction. But that wasn't happening for you, you just sensed that things were wrong, they were increasingly painful, that something was "up".

For some people who are really hurt by things like betrayal, "feeling" betrayed or suspecting betrayal on a level that isn't quite conscious...or feeling that way and not confronting the issue, or feeling that way and just suppressing the qualms in order to maintain the relationship at any cost (which was kinda what I was doing, in my story) then symptoms arising from that betrayal will manifest somewhere in the body, because that betrayal will create the optimum conditions of susceptibility in the body.

Seems that it's not really coincidental that your symptoms showed up in your sex organs, as that sexual relationship was definitely unhealthy for you. He quite literally "made you sick" after he quite literally "hurt" you, both emotionally with his affair, and physically with sex itself.

Tests for STDs should be conducted repeatedly with some time lapse...the unfortunate truth about STDs like gonorrhea and syphilis and HIV is that in women, we are often physically asymptomatic even though we've been infected (though there are plenty of changes which take place in the mental/emotional state which correspond to being ill with any of these diseases). Conventional medicine, which is focused completely on the biochemical, can't "measure" these mental or emotional changes so they don't consider them or wish to look for them...but they are definitely there. So instead, they monitor for any of the physical symptoms of the disease...which can take weeks and sometimes many years before they appear.
jami
chacha. thanks. I'm understanding it more clearly now. they wanted me back in six months for the additional testing, and it's about time for it now.
the kicker of the situation is that, even though he is living with her now, he is only admitting that they are 'dating' and 'exclusive', and not to intercourse. the admition would help me in my 'adultery' charge as well as the 'cruelty' charge for divorce. kinda like - if he doesn't admit it, it didn't happen kind of thing. which is why I am attempting to find some sort of facts to stand behind what I am stating. trying to back things up in my corner.
not going to be a fun trial.
and it was the doctor who told me that as I was in a one person realtionship, he was the one who 'gave' it to me.
chachaheels
It's easier to prove he communicated an STD to you rather than a yeast infection, because there really is no biochemical evidence to be found to actually prove this (like I said, we all have yeast organisms in our body, their necessary....so you can't accuse him of "giving" you a yeast overgrowth). However, you might have to prove you didn't have one before he started to have his affair, and developed the STD (for which he also has to test positive) only after he started to sleep with his current partner.

If your doctor can show evidence that you didn't have an STD and then developed one he had and obviously communicated to you...(and you can prove no one else could have communicated one to you) then your doctor might be able to support you legally.

Anyway, the thing is to make efforts to heal yourself after coming out of a relationship which ended up hurting you so much, and moving forward, so that you can really put this illness and the relationship which played such a big part in creating this illness behind you.
jami
chacha. there was no need before for an STD test before. we were married over 25 years. I thought it was monogamous.
and will an STD show positive always? I mean, if you take the meds and get it cleared up, are you still positive? I only know what I have seen on tv - a shot of good ol penicillin and you're good to go.
I guess all I can do is my testimony in court.
I promised son that we would stay here thru the school year. Now I am thinking that as soon as the papers are signed - we are outta here. I am told it could take another 6 months or more.
healing myself is gonna take awhile. trust issues. my thoughts are more towards my son and showing him that the way we were treated is not the way it should be. It was just the only thing that we knew. I am finding out nearly everyday that there are men who do not treat their families the way we were treated. I just didn't know.
thanks chacha for the help and suport.
~jami~
chachaheels
This is the reason so many states have now changed their divorce laws to "no fault"...this back and forth with medical records which really are supposed to be confidential just makes for prolonged court battles, which ultimately ends up costing both parties a lot of money and acrimony.

Your attitude is a really good one, though: you already know there is much out there that will be better than the relationship you're just coming out of, and there's a huge opportunity for you to help expose your own child to this truth as well...that can only be good, no matter how hard it's going to be. And yes, if you do have issues of trust, then a big part of restoring your own health will be learning how to find ways to restore the ability to trust (which is really all about fear).

Much luck to you Jami...it will be a lot of work and struggle but the pay off will be very much worth it, and the experience of real love you may find will make all of the effort worth it.
jami
thank you chacha. such kind words.
I am not ready to tell my son about what his father did to me. mentally, psycially or medically. not for awhile yet. I don't want it to seem as though I am poisoning the image or memory of his dad. the truth as severe as this is hard enough for me. I think I will wait till it's over with and we are on our own together.
I know that in the end all of this will good. somewhere. at sometime. And I know how hard it is now. I mean, really... to have gotten an STD from a 29 year relationship? complete betrayal. and this won't be over for a long while.
my bustie friends have totally helped me thru what I have been going thru. from the first day I have posted. I want you all to know how much your support has meant to me.
~jami~
ICPrincess
I just discovered something very surprising about yeast. I had been going crazy with my breasts itching and itching with nothing working to abate the itch. I googled till I was blue in the face and saw many women suffering from this but nobody had any real answers. Doctors tell you it is probably contact dermatitis or an insect bite or the wrong detergent etc (and it can be in some cases). I do know that hormones make the itching worse but I've tried Cortizone creams, Aloe Vera, Pure Lanolin, Zinc, Antibiotic cream and a million other things...even antihistamines. Sometimes the itching is so bad I get a little bit of scaliness or blood because I went too far when I scratched (even though I try to be careful and not scratch). I came upon a few holistic sites and felt a major light bulb go on. They were indicating that many women have itchy breasts due to yeast and nobody ever even suggests this to them so they suffer sometimes for years without any lasting relief.

I have severe Interstitial Cystitis (horrible thing that makes you feel like you have a urinary tract infection 24/7 even though you do not) and I do know that any yeast at all aggravates the hell out of this until I pop a Fluconazole (Diflucan). What I did not know is that yeast commonly lives on our skin and many of us are walking around with skin yeast even though we may look perfectly fine. We just keep scratching and not understanding and cortizone doesn't help etc. I read a board where the women were talking about the relief they gt by rubbing Monistat derm and even pure Monistat on their breasts. That the itching could be due to yeast and that Monistat being an antifungal would kill this. I was taken aback but thought you know that makes a lot of sense actually. I figured it couldn't hurt because I've tried every friggin thing on the planet here.

I can't believe the difference!!!!! I had a little tube of that Monistat Derm they give you for external use and put that on and let it sink in. Within a few hours the itching started to die down! The next day I woke up with barely any itching and now my breasts have cleared up! I'm not sure if I want to laugh or cry because doctors never tell you this. It's infuriating. I mean they should at least consider yeast as a culprit. I called some of my local pharmacies and they said that yes you can buy a whole tube of Monistat Derm but it's usually behind the counter and not every pharmacy has it. One pharmacist was honest in telling me that I could probably just use the regular stuff that is meant to be inserted internally because it has the same percentage of Miconazole. I wanted to pass this on so if any of you have had this on going problem, give this a try. I am stocking up because this absolutely made a difference! Hope it help someone! smile.gif
crinoline
Hi all!
This may sound stupid, but, how do I know if I have a yeast infection?
I mean, I've heard about such vague symptoms as "itchiness" and "discharge", but no specifics for either. (and yes, I scrolled back six pages in this thread before posing my query)
What I am experiencing is : no discharge out of the ordinary, no odor whatsoever, mild itchiness, and red inflamed vaginal opening.
I haven't changed any habits recently, but the boy DID go down the day before yesterday, which is unfortunately unusual.
So should I wait to see if more severe symptoms manifest themselves?
And if not, what is the treatment? (I read yogurt and boric acid inserts, but I'm confused about the use of tea tree oil- it seems abrasive)
chachaheels
Yeast infections have specific discharges, they're creamy, usually white or yellowy, sometimes lumpy like cottage cheese.
There's an odour as well, and there is always itchiness. There will often be other symptoms associated with the ones which manifest in the vagina (pain during intercourse, irritation in the bladder, bloating, tiredness, skin rashes).

You can always go and be tested for candida albicans, it's one way of knowing for certain that what you're experiencing isn't the result of hormonal changes or other lookalike ailments which can be far more serious.

The redness in the vaginal opening could be anything: physical irritation (sometimes from beard stubble) or irritation from ingredients in lubes or spermicides or contraceptive devices which are treated with or contain ingredients like nonoxynol-9.
crinoline
Thanks chacha
Yeah, it's definitely developed into a yeast infection. I began getting the requisite discharge yesterday evening. Still no odor though.
Here is what I've done to treat it:
I've been eating kraft LiveActive cheese, because it's the only "live" cheese I could find
I've been drinking cranberry juice, on the advice of my Mom (no sugar added)
Meds-wise, I did the Monistat 1 last night. Does anyone know how long I should wait for results before using a new treatment?
Also, AZO Yeast pills.

It seems like overkill, but I really want this to go away before my day long LSAT this saturday.

Any suggestions / advice?
oceangirl
I don't mean to de-rail the yeast infection thread but... I'm wondering...

ICPrincess,

Have you ever done a broth culture to see if you have a low level chronic bladder infection? I know that conventional medicine says IC is not an infection but I have done a bit of reading on this and learned a bit about it. I struggle with IC symptoms and I'm trying to treat them (I recently found out I have chronic Lyme disease and bartonella - there is a whole debate about whether chronic lyme disease even exists but that is a whole other matter). Bartonella especially can cause bladder irritation. And low grade enteroccocus can cause nasty bladder symptoms. What most doctors won't tell you is that the standard urine culture is really only good for detecting e.coli. It is not designed pick up things like enterococcus etc and even if it does a lot of doctors will dismiss these things as contaminants when really they can cause IC symptoms.
crinoline
Sorry to be asking so many questions but...
I took (read: inserted) Monistat 1 ovule on Tuesday night. The directions said that I could not have intercourse while using the treatment. I still have some of the med leaking (tmi? sorry), but my symptoms have all but disappeared (thank Maude!!).
Do you think tonight (Friday) would be safe to have intercourse or should I wait? If I need to wait, how long?

I'm sorry that I keep popping up with questions, I'm just such a dork sometimes.
maris
I have a variety of skin problems including eczema and folliculitus. My skin is very sensitive. I have had problems with yi for about ten years. My doctor said it could be due to stress or hormone levels. I have been taking birth control pills for ten years as well. I have usually treated the yi with Monistat (3 day) or Diflucan. At first, I got one about every other month. Then after a couple of years they became less frequent. I started having two or three a year. The last two have started with a small bump on my outer labia (labia majoria). Then I had the itching and white discharge. The bump got a tiny white head and then it disappeared both times. I have read that yi on the skin can sometimes cause bumps like this in the folds of your skin. Has anyone else had this happen?
opheliathemuse
crin, I'd wait until everything feels normal. Does that make sense? I'd wait just to be safe...
you never know, your boyfriend might have yeast and reinfect you. That could really suck. It's best to let things in both bodies sort of readjust for a couple days after. no sugar, lots of water.
Also: Monistat 3 is more of a pain, but works better than Monistat 1. Always use that one, because 1 won't always kill off everything you need it to. If you have a health food store nearby, try getting non-flavoured greek yoghurt. It's really good for the system as well as good if you need something for a quick yeastie fix.

maris, that happened once or twice, yes. I heard women can also develop acne on their labia too (sigh).
crinoline
thanks!
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm afraid Crinoboy gets antsy after a couple of days, so I now wake up each morning to "How 'bout NOW?".
Thanks for the meds advice, I just didn't know what to do, so I picked what looked the least complicated. I'll use 3 next time (knock on wood- no next time! lol).
hellotampon
I just finished a round of antibiotics for a dog bite, and while I was on them I was fine, but as soon as I stopped taking them I got a yeast infection. I had sex the night before my symptoms started showing up, and when we were done my boyfriend complained that his dick was hurting and that it felt like he had to pee but he knew he didn't have to. Now I'm worried that he has an infection too and when we start having sex again that he'll reinfect me. If I make him put some of the external cream on the tip of his penis would that be okay?
crinoline
hellotampon- I just found this Webpage on male yeast infections. The rest of the site is pretty good too, straightforward feminist discussion of coochie problems.
hellotampon
hmm okay thanks. I'll have him put some of the cream and and hope that works, before trying the doctor- neither of us has health insurance.
Celina!
I'm the latest victim to the birth control pill and have been getting yeast infections every month before my period for the last year and a half. I'd never had the yeasties before starting the pill sad.gif Unfortunately, its my only option at the moment so the battle wages on.
I've tried the most common home remedies; yogurt, garlic, etcetera, as well as otc meds and changing my pill brand to a lower dose. Nothing works at all so far except for the dreaded prescription meds. I really hate what its possibly doing to my liver (and my wallet! argh!) to take diflucan every month. Since introducing yogurt and later acidophilus pills to my daily diet, I've managed to stave off the infection till the day or so after switching to placebos, whereas before i'd get it sometime in the week before. I bought myself a week! Anyway, I'm now looking into boric acid as my next attempt at a monthly saviour. The research I've done has given me many different instructions on how many and how long to take the 600mg pesserys.
Chachaheels, you suggested twice a day for 2 weeks, which is one of the more aggressive treatment scheduals I've seen. My yeast infections are generally very mild (almost completely without discomfort except for during sex), and I'm wondering if a less intense treatment would be more suitable. Thankyou for your help! smile.gif
mollychan
ok, this is similar to crinoline's problem, but i feel like i'm on the verge of an infection... but maybe it's something else? maybe it's nothing? things have been feeling a little irritated after sex in general, but the past couple of days i've just been so itchy. but there's no discharge and nothing looks red down there. could this just be general irritation?

i'm trying to tell myself that it's just a result of other factors. for example, i just started back on the pill, i just started riding a stationary bike a lot, and my guy is good with the oral (yessss) but has facial hair. so hopefully it's one of those factors, but i'm paranoid it's a yeast infection.

well... really i'm paranoid that this is some sign of returning hpv, which i thought my body killed off over a year ago. but that's for another thread perhaps...
chachaheels
Hi Celina, Happy and Healthy New Year, everyone!

I think using the boric acid once a day for two weeks or twice a day for a week might work well if your yeast infection is mild, but you must keep something in mind: it isn't something that is happening out of context. It is taking place because of the hormonal state your body is in. If it recurs (and it has) then you are dealing with something that isn't "mild" anymore. The hormonal state your body's in actually makes you susceptible to yeast (and other fungal) infections. So you have to consider other approaches. Boric acid's a great "get me out of this misery" treatment, far better than just using diflucan or nystatin or any of those drugstore brand anti-biotics, which only have temporary effects. The boric acid can often soothe any itchiness and pain and actually help your body to heal itself. You won't get these effects with the anti-biotics and anti-fungals, which are just suppressive.

Next, I'd really take an aggressive approach with restoring the human microflora that's disappeared with the use of the pill. The over the counter acidophilus pills just don't do what's necessary, and at this stage replacing what's actually vital--the microflora that's present in a healthy female body which does not succumb to yeast--would be the best thing to take. There is one product (I really wish this were more readily available and made by other companies, but it's not) that I keep recommending, a 7 day treatment called HMF Replete by Genestra/Seroyal. It is available online or through a practitioner, but I do know some really good holistic pharmacies and some health food stores carry this line. It's pricey, but it will make a huge difference in restoring your health so that yeast doesn't continue to recur.

Another option is capsules of oregano oil which you could use for a short course of time, as a support. Oregano oil contains carvacrol, which kills off yeast organisms that have overgrown; more than that, though, oregano oil can actually help your body to do away with the overgrowth of yeast and re-balancing its own stores of microflora so that he hormonal imbalance caused by the pill doesn't have such a drastic effect. I think most women find taking the capsules of oregano oil easier to deal with as the actual oil itself has an intense oregano flavour and it often burns.

Use the microflora "replete" for a week, the boric acid for a week, and the oregano oil capsules for about a month or so, and you should see lasting improvements, even against the "maintaining cause" that is the pill. I get that it's convenient and pretty reliable...I just wish it wasn't so freaking damaging, is all.

Good luck with it...let me know if you feel better, as I hope you do, soon.
Celina!
Thankyou for the advice! I'll try your suggestions as soon as I can (I hope its not too dificult to get HMF replete in canada..)

Anyway, I went to my local compounding pharmacy and discovered that a prescription is needed to have them make up the pessarys. They had powdered boric acid in a bottle without prescription but I'm weary of the safety of making it up myself. The bottle only said to dilute 1/2 tsp of the powder into such and such amount of water for topical use. Is this one okay for making into a vaginal suppository or should I leave it up to the professionals? huh.gif
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