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chachaheels
If you're in Toronto, there are a couple of pharmacies you can try for the Boric Acid. I used to work in one in Toronto and we used boric acid from a different source (from the one we sold on the shelves) though someone has said on this board that they did have some success making up boric acid capsules by buying the boric acid powder and empty capsules, then assembling the capsules themselves at home. The one thing you'd need, of course, is an accurate measure for the right dose. Otherwise, you can get a RX from any naturopath (the vast majority of MDs wouldn't have a clue what to use boric acid for)...and actually the pharmacy I know of in Toronto often makes them up in advance and sells them without prescription. They do mail order.

I know of other sources in Ontario if you're in that province. Let me know: they also sell the complete Seroyal/Genestra line, and the HMF Replete's easy to find and available without prescription.
Celina!
Nope, not toronto unfortunately. I'm in manitoba. I don't imagine the pharmecy does mail order inter-province..?
It seems our general healthcare doesn't cover naturopathic doctors and I don't really have the means to fund a visit at the moment. I can give it a shot with my normal MD, but she said she'd never heard of birth control causing yeast infections, so my outlook isn't great. I'll keep poking my head into health food stores for yeast arrest (simplest way for me to get boric acid, I think) and HMF replete. I really don't want to take the risk of doing myself damage by winging it with the stuff off the shelf, as the pharmacist said they add a base (I assume in the sense of an alcaline product) when they prepare the pessarys. Worse comes to worse I'll order online, just hoping to avoid exorbant shipping rates.

Sorry for hijacking the thread unsure.gif
chachaheels
They all mail out of province. And often into the United States as well.
Naturopaths are not paid for out of provincial health insurance anywhere in Canada. Everyone pays out of pocket, some have very good health insurance from work which covers access to alternative health care practitioners of different sorts. If you've got health coverage from work, check it out to see if NDs or Homeopaths are covered.

Yeast arrest has a bit of boric acid, but not enough to do the trick for most women.

As for asking your MDs about anything that is not conventional medicine, chances are excellent (unless they show bona fide credentials--three to five year diplomas or certification of completed study in any alternative medical discipline) they will know nothing about it whatsoever, and will quite likely feel very threatened by your questions no matter how innocuous they are. If an MD doesn't know that there is a demonstrable link between extreme hormonal fluctuation and susceptibility to yeast and fungal infections of all kinds, then I am at a loss to explain why they don't know. Just chalk it up to it being "out of their area of expertise" and select better sources for information than your MD.
annelise
Yeast arrest has a bit of boric acid, but not enough to do the trick for most women.

this was very true for me anyway...i bought a bunch of yeast arrest because i couldn't seem to get a compounding pharmacy to make up boric acid capsules in chicago. it just made me itchier. sad.gif

oregano oil has worked wonderfully for me, but i'm about to go on antibiotics, so it's good to know about the HMF replete. my health food store is going to try to order it for me, and i'm hoping it'll be more effective than the probiotics i've tried before. thanks chacha, as always.
annelise
my naturopath could order the stuff chacha recommended, but i was anxious to start it ASAP so i wouldn't have symptoms...it gets really horrible after antibiotics. so i talked to a local apothecary that has lots of natural remedies and such, and the guy recommended something similar. this is it:


started taking it the day before i finished the antibiotics and the soreness and itchiness i was experiencing diminished within a day. it disappeared completely, after a few days on it. i've never ever had this sort of success with probiotics, and it was wonderful to have things feeling normal so i could enjoy valentine's day with my bf!

i'm totally surprised...popping probiotics always seemed pointless, except in theory, but it's the high doses that really make a difference. thanks so much for your advice, chacha! honestly, i was expecting a few weeks of miserable discomfort and itching. oregano oil helps of course but i was doubtful that it would help completely after a course of antibiotics.
Lindsey
I recently was told I had a yeast infection by my Ob after finding out I had an ectopic pregnancy... I missed a day (or night I should say) but finished off the treatment. I also took methotrexate to clear everything out of my body. I only bleed for a few days but now I am having brown discharge and my urine smells. Could I still have the yeast infection and would the methotrexate be causing the discharge or smell. Sorry if this is tmi. Just need some help. Thanks!
chachaheels
Annelise, it's great that another high potency product's available now. I think the Renew line is a little less pricey (it's formulated for the consumer, not the practitioner, which does make a difference) and I know it's readily available in most health food stores (so even if its not in stock it can be ordered in if the proprietor carries this line).

The higher numbers absolutely make a difference, as does the source of the probiotic life forms. I like the HMF because they are human microflora organisms, cultured from those taken from a healthy woman (so vegans can take them with no problem, and, truly, if you're set on replenishing what's been lost, these are the critters that have been lost). Acidophilus and L.Bifidus are the most important ones to consider after the HMFs, because they're also to be found in the human digestive system.

But everyone beware: I'm seeing an awful lot of scary frankenwhatthefuck? organisms being added to yogurts, and other "milk" products, and these are the ones being promoted to medical doctors (M.D.'s who are finally allowed to listen to their patients who tell them they take probiotics to counteract antibiotic damage to the gut). When I worked in an alternative medical pharmacy in Toronto a while back, those of us on staff who had any training at all cringed when MDs would walk in demanding the Activia yogurts and its "live" probiotic culture, because we all knew those cultures were not real and certainly not the ones we have in our bodies. Many of them would turn their noses up at all the pre and probiotics in stock and insist on the GMO ones, which you knew they'd go out and push on their patients. And these were all MDs who knew nothing about alternatives, as all the schooled MDs we dealt with on an ongoing basis had accounts with us (to benefit their customers).

Lindsey, I've no doubt the methotrexate will change your urine smell (and quite possibly your whole cycle) but the brown discharge may still be a result of the ectopic pregnancy's end. You should have your doctor check you out to see that everything's okay.
annelise
yeah, i'm really glad i found the renew line. the price for a 30 day supply was the same as for a 7 day supply of the other stuff, and it really is working, much to my delight.

that activia stuff has seemed gimmicky and suspect to me--i'd rather be taking pills that have guaranteed potency to get my microorganisms in order. foods that are fortified with things always seem like they're missing the point--they're all processed and not necessarily using the best forms/doses of whatever they're supplementing. i'd rather eat real food and supplement what i need with pills that i know to be good quality.

for anyone that lives in chicago, merz apothecary is so great for supplements and stuff (they sell stuff online too). i love my local health food store, but they're tiny and don't always have what i need--the merz guy was the one to tell me about the renew line, and he really took the time to understand what i was looking for and find a product that corresponded.
konphusion26
Boric acid and empty gel caps at amazon.com

super cheap to make your own!!!
chachaheels
True, konphusion! Very true. Usually you can find the gel caps in your local pharmacy or health food store, as well as the boric acid in simple apothecary bottles. It's measuring out for accuracy that can be trying...

Have you done this? It would be really helpful if you could post the step-by-steps. The boric acid pessaries themselves are usually put in a solid glycerin matrix so that they melt once inside the body, obviously these will be a little different. But it would really make this treatment accessible for women who don't have a compounding lab nearby (they're getting more and more rare, now that pharmacies and dispensaries are being replaced by stores like Walmart).
konphusion26
Hey there chachaheels! I suck at math and measuring stuff LOL So thankfully I don't have to do that for my capsules. I get the size 00 gel caps (I usually use 2 at a time) and made a small paper funnel to make them easier to fill. This was an idea borrowed from another bustie actually.

Then I get like a napkin or something to lay them on after I open the gel caps up. Take the funnel and carefully place it inside one of the capsules, as it fills remove the funnel very slowly. Take a small spoonful of boric acid powder; I put just enough to fill the largest part of the capsule then carefully put the top on it. Once both capsules are filled, I insert them. And please please wear a pad or pantyliner ladies... this stuff will leak out as clear fluid. I use them before bed so that it wont run out so fast at night while i'm sleeping.

I'd use them a few times a week until symptoms of yeast infection have cleared. I don't really get external itching so I dont have any recommendations for that. The clumpy discharge is what bugs me!! I also get a very light buttermilky kind of odor (sorry for TMI ladies)!
mouse
crossposting in the general knowledge thread--


so, i just got my wisdom teeth out and my dentist prescribed an antibiotic. generally i try to stay far away from antibiotics (i don't think i've taken one in at least ten years, probably more like fifteen) but teeth are near sinuses which are near brain, so i don't want to fuck around with this one. so--i'm taking the antibiotic, which i'm not used to. i've heard that antibiotics often will spark a yeast infection. here's the thing--i've never had a yeast infection (i'm sorry!!) and i don't want to start now. do you guys have any preventative measures that you use when you have to take antibiotics? i've got yogurt anyway cos i can't eat solid food--anything else edible i should be paying attention to? cranberry juice? garlic?

any help would be super appreciated!!! thank you!
neurotic.nelly
mouse, i've heard that you can put a lil' plain yogurt on a pantyliner...and wear it like that, actually putting the live cultures right where they need to be, but this may be an old wise tale. but other than that, i'd say kombucha tea because it has a zillion tons more live cultures than yogurt and it is good for you overall immune system. and garlic for sure!
chachaheels
Mouse, Annelise found a very good, high microbe count acidophilus and bifidus probiotic formulation that is available in health food stores to the consumer, she's got a photo of it, below. If you can find that, use it!! If you can find Genestra Seroyal's HMF Replete and use that for a week after, that's good too. I think both of these products are made for people who find themselves stuck on a prescription they know will end in yeast. To get over that, the yogurts and over the counter daily probiotics just won't do.

Antibiotics are extremely deadly to a wide range of microorganisms in the body--that's why yeast infections result from their use. You have to be aggressive about replacing beneficial microorganisms the anti-biotics kill off. I would take a very high count formulation AFTER you've finished with the antibiotic. Though it may seem like a wise thing to put yogurt on a panty liner or insert it in the vagina (Neurotic.nelly's suggestion is a good one, it can be soothing, especially if you're feeling the symptoms externally!) you need to replace what's being killed off in your gut. We're not playing chemical bombs here, like there's a "war", you vs. yeast; we're actually replacing what your own body would have in abundance, if it hadn't made unhealthy by the antibiotics. Then, your own body can continue to maintain the beneficial balance of yeast and bacterial culture that's needed to keep you well.

In the meantime, the kombuchas and kvasses and lactofermented foods of all kinds will be a big help while you're taking the anti-biotics. They can minimize the impact of the drug while you're taking it.

Konphusion, thanks for posting that detailed account, that gives people an idea about quantities used, and length of time to use the boric acid. I'm sure this is the easiest solution, particularly if pessaries are hard to find or if they're priced way out of reach of simply not readily accessible without a prescription. Your advice is going to be really helpful to a lot of women!
theartist
Hi, I stumbled upon this forum and page randomly, when searching for help with this yeast issue.

Back in September of last year, I had to take a penicillin-based antibiotic for a urinary tract infection. My doctor told me that, even though I'd never had a yeast infection before, I could very well get one with this antibiotic. Well, turns out he was right. I know it seems odd that I am posting now, nearly five months later, but it only hit me today that what I've been experiencing is a yeast infection. I've been getting terrible itching, redness, slight swelling and a light, white discharge a week before each of my periods. I just thought my hormones were doing something wacky, because it went away as soon as my period hit! I'm guessing one of the reasons it came and went like this is that I am, in general, quite healthy and take probiotics.

Today, I've gone to the pharmacy and gotten a 6-day pessary Canesten (Lotrimin) treatment, as per the pharmacist's recommendation. I'll be eating lots of good yoghurt and trying something I saw on Earth Clinic (http://www.earthclinic.com -- great site), which consists of one taking 2tbsp. of lime juice, a 1/2 tsp. of baking soda and a 1/2 cup of water together. According to one of the very informative visitors of that site, it will get your pH back on track.

I'm wondering, should my boyfriend (we are monogamous and live together) go to a doctor to make sure he hasn't gotten this off me? We use condoms as contraceptive, so I'm not too concerned, but considering my infection has primarily featured an outer rash on the labia and things--areas that would touch skin and hands, obviously--might he need to be concerned? He hasn't noticed any changes anywhere on his body. Thanks!
kittenb
theartist - I don't think that is a bad idea at all. As I understand it men can get yeast infections they are just asymptomatic. However, they can pass it back to you.
Good luck!
chachaheels
I don't it's that men are asymptomatic for yeast, it's that the symptoms are not "recognized" as part of the conventional definition of yeast infections. Yeast infections are actually systemic in nature, and not local, though their most famous symptoms appear to be local only (and, as theartist knows, they're not). For men I look for symptoms of itchiness anywhere in the body--usually it will be deep in the ear canal, sometimes in the mouth (look for thrush symptoms) and often in skin symptoms (they get the itchiness and redness in the genital area and also in other parts of the party where there is a tendency to dampness and darkness. Feet, for example. After all, athlete's foot is just another fungal infection, like "yeast"). Babies and children are prone to yeast infections as well (diaper rash and indeed a large number of the early rashes babies get are systemic yeast).

This is why localized symptoms "pass back and forth" between partners; and why "localized" symptoms are only what they appear to be, when in reality they are symptoms of an overall tendency for the body to become susceptible to fungal infections. Just because the discharge "clears up", doesn't mean the yeast infection is gone.

That's why the white discharge and itchiness and pain associated with vaginal yeast almost always occurs during the time of hormonal fluctuation just before the period begins, and seems to "clear up" once the flow begins. Only to recur next cycle, right on time. All the systems of the body are affected by the fungal infection--the digestive, reproductive, lymphatic, and immune systems are affected, just to name a few. The same systems are affected in men when they experience yeast, too.
mouse
motherFUCK, ladies, i think i have a goddamn fucking yeast infection for the first time in my goddamn fucking life! i HATE antibiotics!!!!! seriously, as soon as i finished the prescription it hit me. WHYYY

ok so, i think this MUST be a yeast infection because it makes perfect sense, i luckily pretty much never have issues with my bits and now when it would be most likely, i am having an issue. my cooze is really painful and feels super dry, even though it's pretty much the same moistness as always. i don't itch and i don't have any discharge, i just feel really tight and hurty and dry inside and outside. perfect timing, too, since the first boy who has expressed any sort of interest in me in like six months is possibly gonna be around this weekend. CRAPPITY CRAP CRAP.

so, here is the question i pose to you intelligent ladies from my spot here on the couch, sitting in some yogurt--should i take an OTC for this? or should i see if yogurt and garlic and whatnot clear it up? i'm taking probiotics anyway. i just don't want this to become a recurring thing, and i am curious whether OTCs will make that more or less likely. also, it's definitely bearable--it's uncomfortable, but it's not the kind of thing where it's the only thing i can think about.

it would be great to get some opinions on this. hope you and all your respective coozes are in top form.
chachaheels
The over the counters are all antibiotics. So...really...I wouldn't recommend it. The simplest reason not to do OTC is because they seem to create a cycle of recurrence. You are symptom free for a few weeks, then just like clockwork, the yeast returns.

Yogurt douches (plain yogurt with live cultures mixed with water) can help topically; oregano oil capsules taken orally are a huge help, and high microorganism count pro and prebiotics are a great way to go to ensure that cycle of yeast infections doesn't set itself up. Salt water baths in warm or hot water also help to soothe the itchiness/burning/dryness. It is a good idea to avoid having sex until you're better; and then, avoiding lubes that are glycerine based (glycerine's too sugary and it can feed yeast, which may cause its overgrowth to take place again).

There's always diflucan, which you can get by prescription, but I've noticed the same cycle with that drug as well.
mouse
thanks chacha, that's what i figured. i've been eating a lot of yogurt and probiotics, applying yogurt topically, and garlic uh, internally and things seem to be lessening a little. if it doesn't clear up in a couple more days i'll try to find some oil of oregano. do you know if regular oregano does anything? i have a little oregano plant...

also, i've found from other sources that it's best to stay away from sugar--do you know if that includes high-sugar fruit too, or is it just refined sugar?

thanks so much


ETA: oh hey also, how long should i expect this bullshit to last? sad.gif
vianne
Okay...this problem isn't as big as it was a couple months ago BUT it still comes and goes occasionally. Here goes...
Back in September, I think, I started getting really itchy... and I mean so damn itchy I wanted to kill myself. It was really red and kind of dry down there. When I went to my gyno I told him I thought I was getting a yeast infection and if not then something was going on down there. After ignoring what I told him he just wrote me a random prescription. This lasted for months. It just started going away a couple months ago. Here's the kicker. I went to Utah during Thanksgiving and while I was up there it went away completely. Just after a day or two. I get back home and before I take a shower or wash my clothes, it came right back. Now it only happens right before I get my period and it's not so severe but I still don't know what the hell was wrong with me. I don't know if it was a yeast infection. My doctor said it didn't look like one. It didn't smell and the only discharge I had was my everyday run of the mill discharge. Anyone know what this was? Or have a similar experience?
theartist
QUOTE(vianne @ Mar 5 2008, 04:20 PM) *
Okay...this problem isn't as big as it was a couple months ago BUT it still comes and goes occasionally. Here goes...
Back in September, I think, I started getting really itchy... and I mean so damn itchy I wanted to kill myself. It was really red and kind of dry down there. When I went to my gyno I told him I thought I was getting a yeast infection and if not then something was going on down there. After ignoring what I told him he just wrote me a random prescription. This lasted for months. It just started going away a couple months ago. Here's the kicker. I went to Utah during Thanksgiving and while I was up there it went away completely. Just after a day or two. I get back home and before I take a shower or wash my clothes, it came right back. Now it only happens right before I get my period and it's not so severe but I still don't know what the hell was wrong with me. I don't know if it was a yeast infection. My doctor said it didn't look like one. It didn't smell and the only discharge I had was my everyday run of the mill discharge. Anyone know what this was? Or have a similar experience?


Do you have any history of psoriasis? This is a bit of a longshot (because it does sort of sound like a yeast infection), but I have psoriasis, and all my doctors told me to stay out of the sun and stay in humid areas, until I found one doctor that told me just the opposite. Put me on light therapy, which has pretty well cured me of psoriasis for years (as in, I've not even done the treatment in forever in a day!). I live in a drier climate now, too, and that has actually helped me more, rather than hindered.

I know some people get psoriasis or some form of dermatitis on their genitals at times. Is this a possibility, you think? Any history of skin issues?

Also, I'd get a second opinion from a different gynecologist.
erinjane
Ugh. I loved the Nuvaring when I was on it...until it started giving me chronic yeast infections. I never had one before that damn ring and now I can't seem to get rid of them. In August I had an unbelievably bad infection. In the past I always treated with yogurt and that worked fine, but this would not let up. I went to the doctor twice and got OTC medicine but still it seems to be persisting. I went to the doctor again today and she did a test and should call me to let me know what's up. I feel so angry at my body. I feel like i haven't had totally comfortable sex in months and I don't know how many more cycles of this I can take. Anyways, just had to vent. I'm on tricyclin low now. I wish I could've let my body heal without having to take more hormones, but because I'm seeing someone I don't want to take that chance. And to top it all off, I'm starting to get worried it could be BV now.
/rant
vianne
QUOTE(theartist @ Mar 4 2008, 11:40 PM) *
Do you have any history of psoriasis? This is a bit of a longshot (because it does sort of sound like a yeast infection), but I have psoriasis, and all my doctors told me to stay out of the sun and stay in humid areas, until I found one doctor that told me just the opposite. Put me on light therapy, which has pretty well cured me of psoriasis for years (as in, I've not even done the treatment in forever in a day!). I live in a drier climate now, too, and that has actually helped me more, rather than hindered.

I know some people get psoriasis or some form of dermatitis on their genitals at times. Is this a possibility, you think? Any history of skin issues?

Also, I'd get a second opinion from a different gynecologist.


No...no psoriasis history. Maybe it was a yeast infection and my doctor just didn't care. He always tries to rush me out of his office and it's high time to replace him. I'm in the market...
chachaheels
If you've used birth control pills of any kind, or anti-biotics of any kind you will note that you will become susceptible to yeast infection symptoms before (and sometimes after) your period.

There is a connection to this occurrence in that many of the microflora we need in our guts have been killed off by the anti-biotics; they may also be rendered insufficient in their task of providing the nutrients our bodies need in order to deal with infections of all kinds simply by the altered hormonal balance medicines which are steroidal or hormonal in nature will cause.

If you're finding yourself suffering from a chronic and recurrent situation, physically you will want to rectify any imbalance: emotionally and mentally, you'll want to take a good look at your whole life to find out what it is that could be making you susceptible (weakened, overcome, debilitated---any relationships in your life which create this kind of situation for you? anywhere? work, love, family, friends, pets, anything? all worth a look).

To rectify the problem of the microflora, you'll need to replenish what's been killed off or at least add to what exists. Because you're already facing a yeast infection, adding yogurt to the diet daily or taking probiotics you buy over the counter just won't suffice. You really have to get the extremely high microorganism dose pre-and pro biotic formulations. They cost more, they have a short term use, they're often available in practitioner driven lines only (but now there is one formula that's targeted for consumers, mentioned below).
This will help restore what's been lost in the body which naturally keeps yeast overgrowth in check: when microflora populations are restored, the body is far better able to obtain nutrients from food, so it's properly and sufficiently nourished. When that happens, your immune system can effectively do whatever it needs to do to cure you of whatever you're facing.

Oregano oil (not the same as just plain oregano--the essential oils serve a curative or defensive or reactive purpose in the plant, that's why we use them for ourselves, too) doesn't do anything to replace your own microflora, but it does help to boost your own immune system responses to infection. The carvacrol in the oil actually stimulates a much more energetic response to the infection. Oregano oil can be taken in capsules (recommended) as the oil itself is very strongly flavoured and can't be used topically anyway.

Topical applications of yogurt, via douches or just insertion, can be soothing (but some women say it's also irritating).
Salt water baths (use at least one cup of salt to your bath water) also help a great deal and boric acid can work as an effective soothing treatment and cure.

Staying away from sugar and refined carbs helps in that it keeps you from eating a lot of depletive foods, but it won't make much of a difference to the yeasties unless you can eat a high protein-high fat-very low carb diet for quite a while. You don't just crave sugar when you have yeast because of yeast: you crave it because you're depleted, and often out of whack hormonally too. Chances are better that you're craving the sugar because the thyroid's over worked (usually underfunctioning, and desperately trying to start itself up again), or you've got a nice case of hyperinsulinemia going on and the pancreas is also working far too hard to maintain insulin and blood sugar levels.

This is chronic infection I'm describing here, and if you've had this for longer than a week or so, then it's chronic. It will take a while to get things to rebalance--a week or two of the super high organism dosing and topical treatments will make a difference, but three months should give you a chance to get rid of this thing forever, as long as all maintaining causes are removed.
mouse
ok......so i had a yeast infection, i treated it with yogurt and garlic, and it has finally calmed down (as of about a day or two ago). problem is, i still have a lot of topical irritation and i'm getting worried that it might be something else. the yeastie started with itching around my, ahem, back parts before it blew up in the cooze area. now i don't have any soreness or cooze issues, but the skin in my crack is all dry and irritated and cracking and red, and i've got this terrifying red spottiness on my inner thighs.

here's my rationale for it--it's lingering irritation from the yeastie. i got a bikini wax right when the yeastie started, so i'm assuming (hoping) that the spottiness is irritated hair follicles (and honestly, that's what it looks like, but there are a lot of them and i usually only get a couple).

PLEASE tell me that someone else has had this lingering redness/irritation after a yeastie and that i don't have to start FREAKING OUT about stds, which is ridiculous because a) last time i was checked i was clean clean clean, cool.gif the only person i was sleeping with both before and after that test wasn't sleeping with anyone else, and c) i haven't had ANY kind of sexual contact with ANYONE in almost a year and symptoms usually show up in less time than a year RIGHT???

FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK ME
HELP
pp is closed until tomorrow or i'd be there, freaking out
chachaheels
Yeast infections take different forms. Why? Because they're systemic, not local.

Diaper rash, for example, is a yeast infection on skin.

So red, itchy spotty rashes are not uncommon. Note how all the tineas (fungal infections) all appear to be so similar; diaper rash, jock itch, athlete's foot, ringworm....these are all very close cousins to yeast, and yeast on the skin often looks like these conditions.


If you've already got an infection in the body then the skin's susceptible too--especially if it's been overirritated by something like a waxing, or even by physical contact with the yeast organisms in the body (from discharges, from sexual intercourse...you know).

Look: the more you tell me about this infection, the more obvious it is to me that it's internal, and has more to do with your digestive system than anything else. Something is setting that off kilter and this is one of the outcomes of that disturbance. However, I wouldn't rule out that the digestion problems might be related to something sexual that's taking place in your life, too. It's really not that rare that our sexual relationships have a deep impact on our whole lives, particularly if they're not fulfilling, or they're abusive, or troubling in some sense, or in some way problematic.

If you've been tested and you were "clean", and you haven't had sex since, or anyone you have had sex with since is also clean, the cause may be elsewhere--so you will have to think more holistically if you're looking for something to blame.

I'd still recommend taking the high organism count probiotic (yup, you have to do more than just use garlic and yogurt). If things persist on the skin I'd go and get it checked out for the sake of peace of mind. Everything sure sounds like it's yeast...but without actually seeing you there's no way to determine anything for sure. So let someone examine you.
mouse
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simone8
Hi everyone! I'm new here but I've been dealing with yeast for the last few months on and off and I'm interested in boric acid.

Chachaheels...I live in Toronto. I'd love to know the names of the pharmacies that make up boric acid capsules for you. I believe you said they do mail order as well?
chachaheels
Try Smith's, just north of Yonge and Lawrence on the east side of the street after Teddington Park and Yonge. They make them up there and supply The Robert Schad clinic at the Naturopathic college (Leslie and Finch). That clinic also has a dispensary and you might find them there as well.

There's also Marky's at Bay and Bloor, and Hooper's Pharmacy at Wellesley between Bay and Yonge. I just did a google search using compounding pharmacies toronto and came up with a long list, with Smith's at the top--but only a small number will actually compound medications made with alternative medical substances. Boric Acid's considered an alternative medical treatment.

Good luck! Don't forget to consider the make-your-own boric acid capsule suggestions posted here. They're an inexpensive option and they're not as easy to use, but they can do the trick for a fraction of the price. Smith's sells both the boric acid powder and various fill-your-own capsules in their store.
simone8
Thanks so much chachaheels! I'll definitely be trying one of the compounding pharmacies you listed. I'm using yeast arrest right now but I'd like to give straight boric acid a try since I've heard that there might not be enough of it in that product. I'm a bit nervous about making my own suppositories so hopefully somewhere like Smith's will make them up for me!
chachaheels
Your welcome, Simone, and good luck.
obelix2
Success! I've had a yeastie almost every month (right before my period) for over a year now. I tried Yeast Arrest, but that shizz is expensive, so high five to Konphusion for telling me where to get the Boric Acid. Now I'm making my own BA capsules. I stick one up the twat when I feel the itchies start to come on, and keep it up for a few days. I also used to get a yeastie after a sex marathon, so now I treat myself with the BA after a few nookie sessions in a row.

I'm so freaking happy.
konphusion26
((((OBELIXX!!!!))) No problem darling. I live to serve smile.gif !

So I posted about this in the BV thread, but its actually about a helluva yeast infection I came upon. I had to go to the doctor Thursday because I thought my bv came back. And it was bad, like to the point where it wasnt responding to even the boric acid capsules. Well, come to find out, its a very bad yeast infection instead of what I originally feared; in conjunction with some hormonal issues. Makes for a very unhappy Konphusion!!!!! The doc gave me Terazol (terconazole) cream to use vaginally for 7 days. Doesn't seem to be working, just messy as hell.

It makes me crazy trying to distinguish between the two issues these days. Now I can't really tell what is what. I dont want to keep running to the doctor every week because the boric acid or tea tree oil isnt doing anything. This is ridiculously frustrating I wish I could trade my dysfunctional va'gina in for a newer model!


Anywho, just wanted to share. Hope everyone had a lovely weekend.
Celina!
Hello all! Thought I'd report in on my progress and lo and behold there's already discussion relating to the topic!
I put off buying boric acid from the province over till I talked to my slew of medical doctors to see if I could get it locally. They said no-no to the stuff (of course). The last doctor I saw (doctor #5 for this problem, I should add) asked if I've tried giving my male the OTC medication. I say no, but tell him I dragged my male into the clinic to get thoroughly tested to make sure we weren't passing it back and forth. Tests came up slight traces of yeast but didn't indicate an infection, and topical inspection didn't seem to look like yeast (though he did have some irritation that yogurt cleared right up). So doctor #5 says who cares, try it anyway, and gives us both diflucan. Its now been over 2 months and no yeasties in sight (or feel I guess). This is the first time I've been yeast free for that long in over two years! I just wish I'd found wonderful doctor #5 sooner! Moral of the story, if the yeasties come back consider getting your guy treated even if he's completely asymptomatic. Don't go through two years of hell like I did.
kinkaju
I am curious if any of you consume alcohol on a regular basis.

The reason I ask is I've just been reading more about the relationship between diet and yeast infections. Of course the first thing mentioned is sugar, which as we all know feeds yeast. I have been trying to make significant changes to my diet over the last year and I have cut out a significant amount of sugar (I don't use artificial sweeteners either), but my yeast issues have stood strong.

But I also see something about limiting dairy consumption and ALCOHOL.

I don't drink milk or eat ice cream, but I do eat plain yogurt, cheese, and I do drink alcohol regularly... specifically beer, and have done so for years.

I had my very first yeast infection in college, back when I first started drinking regularly. Since then I began to get them more frequently and at this point "The Itch" has pretty much become something I'm always watching out for the first signs of, especially before my period.

I really do want to continue to make changes in my diet and lifestyle in the hopes that I will eventually hit on the right thing. I suppose limiting my drinking is next obvious choice on the list dry.gif but I am very curious to know if any of you ladies out there who suffer from the The Itch, also drink regularly like me. And/or do you consume lots of dairy or breads or sugar? But I'm most curious about the alcohol hehe.
obelix2
Kinkaju- I average about eight drinks in an entire year, so I'm pretty sure it's not a factor for me. Sugar and processed carbs, though...that's another story. If I could live on white bread, refined sugar and no protein, I'd be a happy camper.
artstar
I think I'll have to revive this thread because I am having some vagina woes....again. I think it might be yeast but I'm not sure. I'll start here...

Since this past Tuesday my vagina has been burning on and off. At first I thought I might have a UTI because it hurt to hold it. When I went though, a lot came out and it didn't burn horribly, although I have been bracing myself because it stings down there already. There is no blood in my pee, and it's usually clear as day unless I have too hold it a long time, then it's just a tad yellow. Not cloudy either. I drink a ton of water, too. I did wear a particularly tight pair of jeans that day. Pehaps I just irritated my urethra? I had something similar to this a couple of years ago. After boyfriend and I had sex one time, it started. I thought it was just the condoms we used and not being lubricated enough. My vagina burned for about a month. I went to the doctor, had a pap done, all tests, etc. everything came out normal. She thought it was a bacterial infection just based on my sympoms at first but all the tests came back negative so she just chalked it up to being urethritis from not being lubricated enough during sex. It eventually went away, but now it's back. It's been burning on and off since Tuesday. Only thing I could think to have done to have irritated myself was wear a particularly tight pair of pants in this FL heat we are having.

I have no insurance and since I went last time and they didn't do anything, I'm hesitant to go to the doctor again. I ended up paying a small fortune for nothing. It did ease my mind a little, that's all though. Since the burning is coming and going, it's hard to tell if I need to go. Sometimes it burns really bad, though, then it will stop. I took one of those home UTI test kits the other morning and it came out negative. Perhaps it's yeast? I just have burning and not much itching. I'm thinking about trying one of those yeast infection test kits anways. Anyone else ever experience this? I have been researching it and sometimes I think I might have a condition called Vulvodynia. When I posted here a couple of years ago, I believe someone gave me a link to some info on the disorder. Anyone ever heard of this? If anyone can help me out please...ChaCha...anyone...


edited to add that my periods have been kind of lighter flow than usual the past 3 months, after being an even medium flow usually. I just thought that stress combined with a new workout rountine was changing them. Can a hormonal imbalance cause vaginal burning?
chachaheels
In my experience with patients, hormonal change is the number one cause of yeast. Burning and itching isn't always yeast, though: if you've had a work up done and tests to rule out more serious diseases with the same symptoms, and they've come back negative, you may be reacting to the use of condoms or sponges treated with nonoxydol-9 as their spermicide. Or, you may have used a spermicide with this ingredient. It's notoriously irritating and can cause urinary tract infections and yeast like discharges.

The other big cause: birth control pill use, change in birth control pill use, changes in prostaglandin production (which can happen if the right fats are cut out of the diet, or if you're on a regime taking or using salicylic acid (aspirin). Generally, period flows which lessen in volume aren't a great sign (periods are all about flushing out spent proteins, wastes from reparative processes in the body, excess hormones in the blood, non-viable conceptions, etc...when they get "lighter" after being relatively moderate, then your body may have been less active at doing its health maintenance).

Please don't think of your expense for your tests as "money spent on nothing". That was money spent to make sure you weren't actually producing symptoms from very serious diseases. I'm not sure why people think that's worthless: if I had cancer but I thought it was just a yeast infection, I'd bloody well like to know so I could treat the cancer and get well, not treat the yeast and grow sicker.
chachaheels
Kinkaju, if you're eating a lot of carbs, sugar, and beer--there's one big change I'd like to see you make to your diet. A daily dose of an extremely high quality B vitamin complex supplemented by a daily 5000mcg dose of B12 in methylcobalamin form, taken as a sublingual lozenge, oral drops, or the equivalent by injection. Your dependency on these foods always make me think that B vitamins are lacking. We don't get them from grains anymore because almost no commercial grain foods or flowers have actually been milled or ground in such a way that spares their nutrients, particularly their B vitamins. To make things even more dangerous--they're usually "fortified" with excess highly absorbable iron. This is poison for you, trust me on that.

You'll find your cravings for sugar and refined flour and beer will lessen considerably once you're on these nutrients.

Other dietary recommendations involve adding a lot more leafy greens to your diet, restricting the amount of fruits and fruit juices you eat, adding fats such as coconut oil and some kind of high quality combined essential fatty acid blend which has fish oil and oil of evening primrose.

You'll also do very well if you add lacto-fermented foods to your diet: real lacto-fermented pickles, sauerkraut, kombucha teas, full fat yogurt with live cultures and lots of whey.

Cut out all soy foods which are not fermented (tofu and miso are fermented--soy "pseudo" foods, such as soy milk, fake cheeses, meets, etc--these are all detrimental to your health. Avoid them at all costs).
artstar
Thanks for your response, ChaCha. Guess it's off to the doctor soon then. I didn't say it was worthless. It did cost me some extra money due to lack of health insurance but I admitted it eased my mind. Did nothing for my burning vagina but it did let me know that it wasn't anything serious. I know my pap smear results came back normal, thank god.
I haven't had sex in a year, so I'm not sure it could be the spermicide. My one concern now is that it is a bladder infection, which I know if you don't get treated can become serious, so I think I might just head to the doctor to be safe. I'd rather pay for a visit there, I guess, than one for the emergency room.
chachaheels
Not only is it easier to pay for, it's a much easier thing from which to recover.

Some things you can do to support getting well:

The old cranberry juice routine--unsweetened, you can buy it in concentrate form which you can dilute: this actually acidifies the affected tissue in the bladder and urethra and makes it inhospitable to the microorganisms thriving on the infection.

If you're given anti-biotics (and you will be, if you've an infection) you'll definitely have to take steps to repair the damage they'll cause or you will end up with a severe yeast infection.

I've found a number of new, high microflora count acidophilus/bifidus pro-biotic formulas on the market recently. You'll need to take these religiously after you've finished your course of anti-biotics. I know taking them on a maintenance basis, even before you get infections in the bladder or yeast infections, can ensure your body's healthy enough to cure itself of these small problems (they really are small, but most of us are so chronically depleted and things like anti-biotics and the birth control pill really do debilitate our body's ability to heal itself). But the fact that the infection hasn't been looked after successfully by the body indicates that you need to give it what it requires in order to do this when it needs to.

If you're looking for a non-dairy source, there are some powerful ones on the market--they're pricey but they cost less than a yeast infection! I like using Genestra Seroyal's HMF Replete seven day formula, which is sourced from human microflora; but I've found New Roots makes a pretty good Ultra Max formulation which contains 36 billion live organisms. You want to look for a product with at least this number of live organisms. These products cost about 30 to 50 dollars for a package, but they effectively re-establish your own body's microflora after it becomes wiped out by antibiotics.
The less expensive, less populated formulations can be taken on a daily basis afterwards, to maintain the healthy state. They will not work as a treatment, they're much better as a support for keeping a healthy body healthy.

Good luck, I certainly hope this heals up quickly for you so you can get back to being healthy.
dirtyprettything
Hey ladies,

I want to know what you think about my situation. Two weeks ago, I noticed some burning with urination and thought maybe it was the start of a UTI (which I'm prone to), but it didn't have that familiar cramping ache that I'm used to. Next thing I know, it developed into what I thought was a yeast infection (CRAZY itching, milky discharge -smells cheesy, sorry if that's tmi-, all of those familiar symptoms), so I picked up a cream and one of those 3 day drug store packs to deal with it: No change, and the itching was joined by burning. So, I waited a bit and then tried the yogurt treatment, had salt baths, drank tons of cranberry juice just in case, and picked up the 7 day treatment from the drug store.

Now, it's been two weeks and it's not gone. I mean, the symptoms have lessened considerably, but it still burns when I pee and things just don't feel right. I still have a bit of a discharge and the itchiness comes and goes (though it's VERY mild compared to what it was).

Unfortunately, my doctor is booked solid for another two weeks, and I can't seem to find any treatments at my local health food stores. I need this gone. I miss sex, big time, but I'm not willing to go for it if this isn't gone gone GONE. So, what do you guys think? I'm starting to wonder if its something else, but I don't know what to do in the mean time.
chachaheels
Well, here's my .02 cents on what's going on with you, dirtyprettything:

1. Stop buying the over the counter yeast stuff. They are nothing but anti-biotics and anti-fungals, and their overuse in general has made them universally ineffective. Besides, even when they were effective (years ago, when the overuse hadn't yet made the yeast/fungus resistant through exposure), they were only good for temporary relief. Hell, my general take was if they didn't suppress your body's symptoms all together, that was a good sign that you were still healthy and strong and your body was still insisting that you pay attention to whatever is wrong to produce those symptoms.

But now they just make you weaker over all, because they wipe out microflora you need to deal with yeast overgrowth in the first place.

2. Time to beef up on replacing that microflora in the gut--it needs to be there anyway, it can't regenerate itself after antibiotic use, so you need to take some steps.

Use a very high microorganism count acidophilus and bifidus probiotic. The ones I recommend are costly, they have far more microorganisms than the stuff you find added to yogurt or available over the counter at the health food store. They are:
Seroyal/Genestra HMF Replete, (which is nothing but human microflora--so perfectly safe for vegans to use as well as everyone else). It's a formulation made to help restore severely depleted HMF. I recommend, in your case DPT, 2 whole weeks' worth of the stuff, so two packages. Take one package a day, every day, for 14 days. I think your symptoms will stop--after that you will have to maintain the microflora populations by eating lots of lactofermented foods, lots of active culture foods (like real yogurt) and use a high microorganism count over the counter acidophilus pill as part of your supplement regime.

An alternative to the Genestra brand is New Roots Herbals' Ultra Max 36 Billion Plus--you can use twice the dose of this product for 2 weeks, then drop down to regular dosing on a daily basis for a month or so after wards.

The Genestra brand is usually a practitioner driven product, hard to find in health food stores--but you can order it easily on line. It's expensive, but it works really well. The New Roots Herbal is a health food store consumer brand and easier to find if you go to the actual store. But it can also be easily found on-line. You may be able to order both from the same supplier.

That should help replace your intestinal flora--without which you haven't a hope of keeping yeast or fungal overgrowth in check, or of fighting off recurrent urinary tract infections.

3. Topical treatments: include Boric Acid pessaries (look for them at a pharmacy with a compounding lab, you need 600g Boric acid per pessary), Boiron Calendula Ovules (they come in packages of 6--you may be able to order them directly from Boiron's website); salt water baths on a daily basis to soothe the tissues; yogurt douches or topical applications;

4. Remove any mechanical causes: the major one for women is the use of the Birth Control pill. It alters the hormone balance in the body so dramatically and for such an extended period of time that it takes years of hard work to try and restore it--meantime, you are supremely susceptible to any illness, especially parasitical ones like yeast. Consider using other methods of birth control, there are lots of alternatives, including natural ones which won't screw around with your hormonal state (and will actually work with it, instead of against it).

Also, if you've got a partner, make sure he's treated for yeast as well--it can be passed back and forth between partners (this happens all the time. Put him on a probiotic treatment, have him apply topical treatments too. If he's got facial hair, ask him to remove it as it is conducive to fungal proliferation--and contact with it will just keep the ailment going back and forth.

5. Finally, recurrent UTI's always ring an alarm bell for me: can you get to a walk in clinic which can perform some tests for you?

Sometimes the UTI's indicate high levels of e.coli--signifying difficulties with elimination, and the organ that involves in the urinary tract is the kidney. In my own experience I've found they often preceed kidney stones--(in more than one case I know, the stones resulted from the use of a prescription drug given to treat "acid reflux"--so you'd never think, but it does make sense...).

Kidney stones are hugely painful to pass, they often "get stuck" and become an obstruction to kidney function (which is really, really important for good health). I would want to make sure nothing of that kind of thing is happening with you, DPT--and I'd want to rule that out. It would be far easier (and wiser) to use methods for breaking up the stones to make them passable without too much pain or difficulty, and restore full function to the kidney (which might finally stop the UTI's and the yeast infections from recurring) than to just endlessly focus on the end result of what's really going on, and just keep treating the yeast over and over again.

I hope some of this is helpful, and I'm sorry you're having so much difficulty with your symptoms. Let me know how it goes, okay?
kinkaju
thank you ChaCha, smile.gif -- I honestly never suspected the soy products mentioned as something to watch out for...


NelleNamtrah
Ladies,

When I found this thread, I almost started crying because I was so happy to find that other people are experiencing the same issues and searching for the same solutions that I am. Last month, I was diagnosed with BV after almost a year of experiencing that nasty smell, without ever realizing it was an actual problem. P.P. prescribed antibiotics (I was hesitant, but sick of the smell) and of course I ended up with a yeast infection, my first in probably 15 years.

It was pretty bad because it struck while I was traveling in Europe and couldn't figure out how to describe the problem in German, so I waited till I got home to deal with it. Big mistake because now it's pretty entrenched. I treated the worst of it with tea tree oil and salt water rinses, but there's still a lingering itch occasionally. I'm taking the probiotics now and am planning to go to the pharmacy tomorrow and get some boric acid. I also rediscovered kombucha tea, which seems like a good idea at any rate.

Thanks to chachaheels for your rational-sounding advice on diet. I've been reading scary posts online about eliminating all starches, sugars, fruits, carbs, basically everything but meats and vegetables. I realize that a cleanse that deep may be necessary for some, but hopefully not me. It was nice to read that I'm craving sugar right now because my body's out of whack right now, not because I'm bad (I don't even really have a sweet tooth!).

I'm on oral contraceptives and don't plan to get off them anytime soon because they're doing wonders for the pain of my endometriosis, which was bad enough to keep me in bed for days at a time. I've never had any vaginal trouble before now, and I couldn't help but notice that the BV started around the same time I started dating my partner. I'll see if he'll agree to some treatment too, in case he's the trouble.
geekchickknits
I've had to go on anti-biotics to clear up a sinus/chest infection, and as predicted, I'm having some yeast issues. I've been good about taking double doses of acidofolous to try and counteract, and may look into some other options, but more I'm concern about using any kind of suppository treatment as I'm on NuvaRing. Anyone have experience dealing with yeast and the nuvaring?
konphusion26
QUOTE(geekchickknits @ Jul 24 2008, 02:03 PM) *
I've had to go on anti-biotics to clear up a sinus/chest infection, and as predicted, I'm having some yeast issues. I've been good about taking double doses of acidofolous to try and counteract, and may look into some other options, but more I'm concern about using any kind of suppository treatment as I'm on NuvaRing. Anyone have experience dealing with yeast and the nuvaring?


Hi geekchick! I too am on Nuvaring, and although I haven't really taken the time to make the connection, its a high possibility that is why I keep getting yeasties. I've found that using the boric acid capsules helps tremendously. Perhaps I should start monitoring when I have the ring in. I've also read somewhere *forgive me not remembering where* that the Nuvaring can cause recurrent yeast infections. But I love the freedom the ring gives for bc.
geekchickknits
QUOTE(konphusion26 @ Jul 24 2008, 02:33 PM) *
Hi geekchick! I too am on Nuvaring, and although I haven't really taken the time to make the connection, its a high possibility that is why I keep getting yeasties. I've found that using the boric acid capsules helps tremendously. Perhaps I should start monitoring when I have the ring in. I've also read somewhere *forgive me not remembering where* that the Nuvaring can cause recurrent yeast infections. But I love the freedom the ring gives for bc.



I love it too - I haven't had yeasties until this point, so I don't think it's tied to the ring, but I worry that the ring will cause it to linger. Today I removed the ring while in the shower and rinsed it off and washed myself, and then gave it one last rinse before reinserting it. It actually made a marked difference so far today.
dirtyprettything
Hey ladies!

I just wanted to give you the latest update. My issues hadn't gone away (it's been 2 months) so I finally went to see my doctor. He thinks its most likely Bacterial Vaginosis, however we wont know for sure until the test results come back. So, more waiting.
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