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Aithinne
QUOTE(period_monster @ Jun 2 2009, 05:10 PM) *
I just stumbled across this: http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-first-ti...ything-spanking via Jezebel. And I think it really speaks to your concerns shoveit.

I loved this article! There's nothing more feminist in my opinion than asserting and asking for what you want, regardless of whether it falls in the realm of 'appropriate' or not.

I'm also a woman with a strong independent personality but want more than anything to be dominated. To me, there is nothing more liberating than losing control over myself. It's the same reason I love bungy jumping.. you choose to jump out into the abyss and give control of your life to the universe and a little cord attached to your ankles. So many people keep themselves locked tight in a little box and freak out if their ordered existence doesn't go to their plan. But I think it is fun to relinquish yourself over to someone else and trust that they can bring you through to the other side.

I still have yet to find a man who can be the dominant peanut butter for my submissive jelly! Lol. *Sigh*... A girl can still fantasize...
auralpoison
Lazypants!
sevenseconds
thanx AP!

K, ladies, my question is, what if this guy (from my Ordinary Confessions post) has some serious childhood trauma, neglect n humiliation n all that... Can this be damaging for him? I don't know that he does, but he was {edited out} for a year, and the way he reacts is FOR REAL. Like he has longed to have me as a mistress all his life. Or do they all react like that?
I'm a pretty sensitive, informed and shrink-rap-aware woman so I am certainly hoping, if anything, this would work as a psycho-drama sesh and praying for transference n all that;) but... I am not a professional therapist, for chrissake. Still, knowing my own wounds and how to put salt in them or dress them and soothe them, even on others, feels familar. Like, I'm good.
Which is even more scary.
And he seems to be in love with me, that's kinda what makes me think, does he KNOW this is a game, even though I am saying it over and over?
That his body doesn't really belong to me?
Holy Mother Superior.
What have I gotten into. (But oh, he makes every bell in me ring.)

How much am I my brother's keeper?

feedback appreciated
7
culturehandy
I'd say it's a coping mechanism. being a sub is his way of controlling the situation, when before he had no way of controlling what happened. A sub is the one in control.
sevenseconds
Thanks, culture...
So it's my soul I should be worried about, not his huh;?
Well, the social situation between us has always been where I am the one bossing him around... so he certainly deserves/ has earned feeling in control for a minute then. More power to him -- if you're right.
Is this um, control distribution equation, like, standard - are there exceptions?
girltrouble
culture is right, in a lot of ways, he may be reinacting some of his trauma, but in a controlled situation.

make sure that you know what his landmines are-- those situations where flashbacks of that trauma may make things get out of control. steer well clear of them, no matter how much he may push for them until you know you can maintain his-- and your-- safety. making sure he knows his safe word, and feels comfortable using it it crucial. but if you are going to do this, understand his trusting you will be of the utmost importance. if you do not think at anytime you cannot continue in the relationship, extricate yourself in the most honest, honorable manner. much like a doctor, a good ethic as a domme is to do no harm, physically, spiritually, emotionally and mentally.

a good book for you to check out is jay wiseman's sm 101. it's kind of a bdsm bible. i think it will help you. there are others, but that is a good place to start.
sevenseconds
GT,
thank you so much for the solid advice. Highly appreciated.
And for the book tip, I'm getting it first thing.
Yes, I definitely have a new respect for SM and the depths it can take you to.

I never imagined I'd be needing this kind of advice, honestly.
I have had sub men attracted to me before (apparently something in me screams domme) but have always been appalled by that look they give when they want to submit... Like dealbreaker, delete-the-number appalled. This is the first time that the look has actually turned me on and made me want to get involved and see what the hype is all about. Doesn't help that the guy is a spitting image of the only man who ever made me happy in bed, 10 years ago. (come to think of it, that guy ... damn...)

Have more questions tho, if you kindly got more answers:
Is there always trauma behind it, are there always *landmines*, or are some relatively healthy people ever attracted to it? I mean, who the fuck IS healthy this day and age, right, but still... I deff don't want to do harm. Terrified by the thought of it, in fact.
And what you said about extricating myself if I can't stay ... for many reasons, long story, in this case it has always been clear to both of us that we cannot BE in a relationship, or at least, that it can only be an on/off thing, with the off's way longer than the on's. He jokingly refered to the situation as being my gigolo, even from before this thing came up.
Does that automatically make it not okay to get that kind of involved, if I know that in two weeks he goes back to his life and I to mine?
Or does it set a time frame for the intensity, like a deadline to play it all out in?

So grateful for the input, Busties.
girltrouble
perhaps i shouldn't have used the word 'relationship.' but i think situation is a bit light, and only implies a single event. you don't have to be in a romantic relationship, the relationship could simply be that you are play partners. i simply meant if you can no longer play....

no, it's not always a trauma behind it. sometimes it's just an affinity, or an attraction, sometimes it is just curiosity that grows into something more intense. there are many ways to arrive at these kinks. being into bdsm doesn't mean that you are unheathy or traumatized, it just means, you are kinky, or to put it another way, that you are attracted to unusual things or situations.

doing no harm means that you know your limits, and those of your sub, and you are thoughtful in your play.
sevenseconds
Good stuff!
You know, you should be teaching this, GT.
culturehandy
oh gosh no, 7, don't worry about yourself.

As for someone with no trauma, so to speak. I'm a pushy bottom, I just like what I like. For me it is also about control, but it isn't a healing mechanism or whatnot. I just like what I like.
sevenseconds
{sorry about that... I know I know, bad idea
I promise to work on my compulsive posting}

[first moved post]

(((cc_girl))), just an idea...

[flash warning, this may not be appropriate for this thread.]

How about you spank him for a change.
Use the fact that you're mad at him for escape-velocity / initial eye-contact ... 's how it worked with me the first time, and it worked well;)
Wouldn't dare trying to convert innocent souls;)... but I read you done some experimenting, so why not flip it over.

Best wishes and good luck!

(Jeez, look at me being the specialist now;)

((Um, someone tell me if this was *not cool*))

* * *

[second moved post]


... not literally "spank him". I was using the innocent word for it but i meant more like, flip the play-power roles on him, temporarily... there are many ways a girl can spank a boy and most of them don't require moving a muscle;
And I didn't mean you should take your frustration out on him but use it as a spark to flip the switch and feel if you two are into it.
My apologies if the thought is weird/sick?
... But why is it less okay if a girl spanks a boy than the other way around -- again, I'm mostly using it metaphorically*... I just did a lot of thinking/ polled my friends, and realized a lot of men enjoy/ daydream about being on the bottom but are afraid they'll lose our respect if they admit it... And it weighs on them to always be strong. Even scares them... (Of course I am oversimplifying.) But my idea was you can just play with enjoying the thought of it and if he hates it, you'll know very quickly and you'll stop.

No harm meant,
all my respect
7

---------
*I mean more like the GT special whisper-tease-withhold, which is kinda how women tend to "torture men" while dating? And then we stop in a relationship. No wonder the sex gets less hot;)
(is this a not-feminist thing to say?)
candycane_girl
Hey 7, like I said before, cc_boy and I have discussed it and he's just not very into the idea of being a bottom. I think he said he might try it more for my sake but that he probably wouldn't enjoy it. It's kind of funny because I've seen how excited he gets when I talk about him tying me up and spanking me. So I figure that if I enjoy being the bottom and he enjoys being the top then there's nothing wrong with that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with women being dominant but unfortunately in my experience I've only met like, one guy who wanted to be dominated. Also in all our time together I only dominated him twice. Another funny thing though was that once I was finally in the dominant role I felt like I had no idea what to do! I was like "uhhh, kiss my feet or something." I had thought that it would come more naturally to me.
sevenseconds
You know, right now I'm buzzing on this: It is so insane to me how I have spent my whole adult life in denial that i like role playing.
But how is it possible I didn't figure it out before?
I remember hating hating hating the idea that a girl must wait for the knight on the white horse to notice her dropped handkerchief and pick it up etc... And my mom always judged me brutally for my urge to be the active one with boys. She made me feel like shit, like: no one will date you more than once if you don't learn to be passive ... Argh. It killed me for so long, I have always felt SO inadequate in my private life. That self, what I referred to as the gay boy inside, was so in hell.
But now looking back, you know, all the okay relationships I've had I've topped the man, subtly and more the psyche way, never physical pain ***. And most relationships that failed started off as me on top and then I would (usually in the winter) fall into a what-if-my-mom-was-right? -now-you-prove-to-me-that-you-like-me-and-ravish-me-please phase. And kinda demanded they top me. And it felt unnatural to them, not what they bargained for... So they'd back out.
Damn... The power of denial - how can I not have known that for all these years?

cc_girl - of course you do what you like... sorry for getting on my high horse, I am having a coming-out freakout;)

7

----
*** (till this last boy, but he's a hardcore {edited out} addicted to pain from before me, he started it, hehe;)
girltrouble
ich, 7 bdsm is so much more than just floggers, whips and bondage. it is very much what you are talking about. i like japanese rope bondage, but my favorite is quiet control. and when i am submissive, i prefer psychological bondage over ropes too. a good top telling me to put my hands behind my back and not to move them all about topping and control, it's not the accoutrements or the accessories.

bdsm is about that consentual power exchange.

[eta: we cool, 7. wub.gif]
sevenseconds
Yes, point taken, GT, I fixed that...
I so intend to post more stuff in this thread about bondage and the negotiation of power and the crazy mad high of trust... I have no shame about liking bondage ( i have a bit of a fear from where it can take me, but no shame), way more shame about the other stuff...
that is, about ...not being really a woman... i guess?
sevenseconds
K, question...

Is a non-BDSM relationship not about the consensual exchange of power? Like, the Rules, where you don't kiss/have sex/ aren't available till such and such date - isn't that BDSM?

Also, dear gt, dear busties, understand, I am off-the-boat(ish) from a culture where there is NO political correct anything and NO "my space" and "your space" and NO habit/ tradition of examining a statement for a scrapy second side and where till 15 years ago even gay people *did not exist*. So, yes, and I am trying and I am learning but please be patient Ok?
Plus, I am OCD.
7

[eta: purring;]
girltrouble
if you both agree to it, it's consensual, isn't it?

but remember in most relationships there are two people. you can try to be equal, but if you look at it, that power is always in flux, whether you view it as bdsm or not. the difference is that with bdsm it is, more than likely, discussed.

it isn't however always talked about. think about gender roles. they are little more than societally codified power relationships. a man and a woman are entering a building. the code that we all know (acquiescence to it is another matter), is the man (or butch) is supposed to open the door for the woman (or femme). but that code, the consent depends on both people agreeing to it. even if it's falling into a role because it's what society expects. that power is still exchanged, no matter what you call it. while we are here, note how i put the role in parenthesis. this is to emphasis that it is not contingent on each person's sex. my x, mr. t was, 95% of the time the butch in our relationship. so she fulfilled the duties of that role, as she saw fit. i loved her opening doors for me, not because i see myself as a woman (although i do), but because it acknowledged my role as a femme. gender wasn't the determinate for behavior, chosen or consensual role was.

lol. i think i might just be babbling. did i answer your question?
sevenseconds
sorry double post
sevenseconds
You did, gt.

So, I should keep my gender identity issues/ multiple-self discoveries in this thread?

Almost posted some of the Real experience but took it off... have to sleep on it.
I'm not betraying this boy's trust if I talk here about what he said?
It is deep, beautiful, intense...

It's fucking kinda sacred.
girltrouble
you post what you feel comfortable with. if you need to take it down, then do. the lounge is kind of a confessional to a lot of busties. that's why we don't really want direct linking to things people say here. but this thread is perfectly fine for all kinds of kink, self discovery or even gender identity discussions. the general rule is to post where you think it fits best, if a bustie thinks that there is a better place they will let you know. but people can talk about things or questions in other threads if they think it germane.
stargazer
QUOTE(sevenseconds @ Oct 21 2009, 10:59 PM) *
Is a non-BDSM relationship not about the consensual exchange of power? Like, the Rules, where you don't kiss/have sex/ aren't available till such and such date - isn't that BDSM?


I agree with GT that with BDSM there is more explicit play with power dynamics. Power dynamics happen in all relationships, but, I think the difference amongst relationships is how power is distributed and managed.


QUOTE
Also, dear gt, dear busties, understand, I am off-the-boat(ish) from a culture where there is NO political correct anything and NO "my space" and "your space" and NO habit/ tradition of examining a statement for a scrapy second side and where till 15 years ago even gay people *did not exist*. So, yes, and I am trying and I am learning but please be patient Ok?


7, if you ever have questions about where to post things, just ask in the Bust Community Forum thread. Regarding gender, there is the A Gender Agenda thread.

Hope this info was helpful for you! smile.gif
sevenseconds
Stargazer, GT, thank you again.

So now the pain of not having Da Hands on me is kind of subsiding (thank you dear health food store near me for carrying 5-HTP) I can start thinking of what happened. After a few weeks of this, I was beginning to have an idea what really turns me on and what I was just trying out to see how he would react.
So I have a question:
Is there a Taken In Hand relationship where the roles are reversed, anyone?
I think I'm not into pain* as much as into the role reversal thing.

(*ETA: I feel it takes a LOT of skills and practice to know how to give pain and ride the arousal vs damage line and I didn't have that time/ didn't want to be learning on a man I was falling in love with)
sevenseconds
Although... MMM nothing sexier than a hawt boy with a studded collar chained to the bedpost. That turned us both on SO much. (The Princess Leia and Jabba scene, I always thought I wanted to be Leia. How funny CAN life be.) The chain is loose so he can move around, but it's there. He has to ask permission to take it off.

Damn I don't know whether to cry or to wank.
girltrouble
why not both? hee hee!
sevenseconds
gt, you sweet sadist;)
kittenb
bump ph34r.gif
girltrouble
i made an off handed comment to mr. t, and now i'm going to be her submissive for the femme high tea this sunday. just after i made the comment, mr. t informed me that she ended it with the guy she was seeing, but he's going to be subbing for her at the tea too.

up side?
>fetish gear! whoot!

>i think i am going to be "treasured sub" (which means little in the way of work, and lots in the way of being treated very nicely.)

>she has talked about looking forward to feeding me (yes! my lovely trigger!)

>she said there is going to be CBT involved, and, i'm hoping there is going to be some caning and other stuff too, i'm not much for pain, so i'm not probably not even gonna get a spanking (also yay!) but the important thing is, i get to do tag team domming w/mr.t, which, i LOVE. i swear, she and i make the best dommes together. i get to be super sweet, which i love, whisper sweet nothings and talking dirty in the sub's ear, tease them and warm them up, scoring their skin, and pressing pressure points with a sweet smile on my face, while daddy beats the living daylights out of them. last time we did it was at a birthday party, for a heavy masochist, and the attendees hard core dom/mes and subs, i mean, a lot of the heavy hitters in portland. we walked away as the favorites, and our friends down there still talk about what we did.

>possible new play dates. daddy and i never really played publicly, neither of us was really that into the scene up here, although g had all the connections so we met/knew most of the heavy hitters up here. all that's changed, and mr. t plays more now that she's lost weight. i don't play all that much now that i'm single, but i like having enough of a reputation that i can get someone good to play with, and every time i play i seem to find a new puppy!

downside?
>mr.t/daddy and i have been broken up for a year, and i really don't want to back slide. now that she's single again too, i'm afraid the pull of our connection might tempt me. she emailed me about feeing and i still get shivers every time she mentioned it. there's a LOT of pull there.

>i wonder if she's gonna play me off of her ex/boy. i'm not/haven't been jealous of him. he did things that i was just not into/interested in (hardcore anal fisting? even the non hardcore variety. no fank you.) what's more i'm really in a place i need to be.

>my fetish ankle boots. goddamn i love them, but fuck they hurt. {sigh} why couldn't i be a masochist?
dayglowpink
Hi GT!!! smile.gif
girltrouble
hi dayglow. smile.gif
girltrouble
.
stargazer
BDSM and Feminism

Hhmm, I did not know the conflict for people who identify as feminist and BDSM. I thought BDSM used a lot of taboo/fetish type of sex play which is different from how we act and identify in our daily lives.

Anyone have any conflicts with BDSM sex play and calling oneself a feminist?

auralpoison
I tried out a new forum a few months back & uh, yeah, yeah a lot of people seem to have a problem with it.

I had a rather lengthy debate with a woman that was all about feminism except when it came to women making their own choices sexually. She basically painted the entire BDSM community with one gigantic brush that rendered them a cult out to recruit unsuspecting women into being sexual slaves/torture victims for the patriarchy. She was particularly incensed by rape/ravishment fantasy play & insisted that the studies done on such things were merely inventions of male psychiatrists/psychologists. Enjoying anal sex was also an invention of the male dominated mental health profession & also completely & totally anti-feminist.

I always thought feminism was about equality & being able to do whatever I want to do as a grown-ass woman. If that means kinky sex & penis in my pooter, that's my business, not Andrea Dworkin's.
damona
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Oct 18 2010, 09:34 AM) *
Enjoying anal sex was also an invention of the male dominated mental health profession & also completely & totally anti-feminist.



this line made me laugh out loud, because my first thought was "well, i guess i've been a very bad feminist the last few days..." The Boy has totally made me love anal. i always liked it, but, damn, he really knows what he's doing... rawr smile.gif
kittenb
I am curious about how the mental health industry invented anal sex. My school wasn't the greatest ever but I think I would have paid attention on that lecture day.

I don't think that I have conflicts about my desires towards some BDSM stuff because I am a feminist but I do worry that they conflict with some parts of me. Oddly, I know that there is some problem in that I can be lazy and what we currently do works quite well and sometimes expanding my horizons can just be a lot of work. rolleyes.gif But sometimes I am just not comfortable about the thoughts that go through my head.
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