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pollystyrene
Wow, that's amazing, Doodle- I'd seen people here make the comparison between the two, and I thought, "yeah, I guess I can kinda see that." but I guess I just hadn't seen a really accurate picture of Pink. Now it all makes sense.
mornington
ahahahaha *develops girly crush on pink*

i think it's the chin
snafooey
Chacha, I think it was a press release. . .and possibly printed in USA Today. I'm not sure. But then, a lot of actors who had worked with him issued statements, I believe, although not as long and as self-referencing as hers was.

I do think Lindsay is talented and, yes, clever. . .but she's a prime example of what happens when you basically take someone out of school when they're still a kid, give them three hours of tutoring a day and then fuck it all once they get to sixteen or so. Does she even have her G.E.D.?
hellotampon
That Lindsey Lohan letter seems nice enough, but I don't understand why she didn't get someone to proofread it for her before she sent it.
doodlebug
Oh, this is going to be fun.

Margaret Cho has just joined the board of directors for Good Vibrations.

Heh.
faerietails
Haha, that's cool.
chachaheels
Thing is, I see samples of peoples' writing every day and really, education seems to make no difference. It seems like the vast majority of people who "write" in any capacity--let's say they have to communicate by letter for work, or they have to create text for any reason (like in a lot of creative work, in publishing, etc), people just don't really care about grammar and spelling anymore.

I've worked with a lot of university and college students as a tutor and an instructor, too: the only students I've seen at that level who could write coherently were all, ironically, ESL students. Many native English speakers, for the most part, can't spell, don't understand grammar, and don't even realize the role or importance of punctuation. And they're not really required to: essays aren't required for a lot of university courses anymore, exams are structured to be multiple choice most of the time, and public dialogue in the classroom is limited because of class size and a student/teacher ratio which doesn't allow for much interaction in or out of the classroom. I typically get letters in the mail or via email written by people who've actually advanced to a degree in their professions and some of those are practically illegible for all the spelling errors, use of abbreviated words (as in, "R U" instead of "Are you"), and a lack of punctuation skills so bad the actual meaning of a sentence gets confused.

I think proofreaders have been phased out. Used to be you could read any page of printed text and rarely find errors; now I can routinely find them in any newspaper, magazine, pamphlet, business card, advertisement, you name it, that I read. I've even seen this one--so common now!--on a floor plan illustration for a condo: the "dining" area is now commonly misspelled as the "Dinning" area. I saw at least two different catalogues with detailed floor plans for condos all featuring this mistake. No one caught it--not the publisher, not the architect, not the printer, not the advertising company hired to put the very pricey marketing materials together, holy gad. As for speaking articulately, listen to "interviews" done with people like police chiefs, or sports coaches, or even many politicians. Most of them make words up as they go.

Lindsay Lohan writes about as well as anyone else her age, as well as some people who are university educated to an advanced level and are even older than she is. She's the norm.

That side by side of Eddie Izzard and Pink is unbelievable. It's like they shared the same makeup bag.
bustygirl
I have had a crush on Pink for years now.

It's become a hobby of mine to find misspellings in public use. We've seen them on billboards, in television ads, album liner notes, promotional material in major corporate outlets, and newspapers. Grammar I'm not as proficient at, but misspellings jump out at me like bees.
grenadine
*derail* chacha, i have to hold out hope. and to be fair, although most of my (public regional college freshman) students do not command the language to the degree i'd like, none has ever tried to hand in a paper with "4U" or "RU" or any variant thereof (although i did put on my syllabus this year that use of abbreviations à la prince would require the author to prove s/he was as versatile & genius a performer as The Artist - but that was in reference to our online discussion board, where i thought they might be tempted). it's true that the older generation (wwII babies) seem to be literate across the board, and today's young adults, not so much, but they've been raised by daycare and tv...
*end derail*
after seeing those pictures, i think pink IS eddie izzard. really. also, margaret cho...wow! her work has always been so full of sexual self-hatred it doesn't seem really alluring to me, but more power to her...
wombat
One of my first jobs was as a compositor for a weekly newspaper. It was a good job because I could learn design software, make some art, learn how to place photographs, and publish my writing.

They had one overworked proofreader that was there mainly to check the accuracy of sales prices in the advertisements. Editors and reporters would use spell-check programs. They are well-educated and intelligent people, but have a lot of work to do. I managed to catch most of the dreaded homonym errors. My favorite: The Sudbury River is now waste-deep.

I saved the editor from an embarrassing mistake by asking her if this should not, in fact, read: The Sudbury River is now waist deep.

People who write for a living write quickly, people who produce media in physical form need to work quickly as well. There is little patience for correcting spelling and other aspects of language usage.

This has nothing to do with the school system, public versus private schools *cough!*, laziness, stupidity, or number of students in a classroom.

It has everything to do with money, money, money, money. Go faster, ignore the unimportant details!

I went to look up the spelling of a word in the dictionary on Yahoo.

Go to Yahoo home page, and look for the "Reference" link.

It used to be right on the home page. Now, they are so busy selling selling selling you News, Entertainment, Weather, Good Restaurants in Your Area etcetera, you can't find Reference. I have to type "Yahoo Reference" in the search field!
lucizoe
Huh. You know, I'm only a few years older than Ms. Lohan and yet I somehow manage to spell correctly and can even diagram a sentence. Go figure.
kelkello
I teach 8th grade English. Spelling and grammar have gone by the wayside thanks to the fucking No Child Left Behind test. That test only gauges math and reading skills, and since schools are held hostage by their tests scores, they throw out anything that isn't on "the test" as ancillary. From September to March, I'm not allowed to teach anything that is not on "the test." Every state that takes federal funds has to give some form of "the test." In Maryland it's called the MSA (Middle School Assessment).

Top that off with a trend that ran through education before NCLB called "whole language" which was a good idea that was bastardized by the American education system. The original idea called for students to be immersed in words and reading. However, direct reading and spelling instruction were not really included in the States, although the original idea suggested that whole language and direct instruction work in tandem. But, the states that adopted whole language threw out spelling and phonics and kids were supposed to sort of organically learn to read. It failed miserably. Lindsay and a throng of kids of her generation were more than likely taught this way.

I agree with wombat that it's less about quality and more about speed. Produce produce produce. Add to that that many of my students turn their noses up at proper grammar and spelling. It's not cool. My boyfriend's daughter is 13, and she is incredibly bright and well spoken. Her spelling makes her look like a complete moron. It's embarrassing, really, but the culture seems to be drifting away from embarrassment about such things and accepting that spellcheck and editors should be doing their jobs. Sad.
chachaheels
Lucizoe, I'm curious: is English your first language?

I used to think it was all money, money, money, but my husband is a graphic designer who creates web and print media. Believe me: one spelling or grammar error that's caught after the text has been published/broadcast/put on a web site equals major money loss. Everything has to be done over, especially if it's in print. That's why I noticed the spelling error I caught on a big ad (part of a nationwide ad campaign for a major corporation that does a lot of TV and print advertising) plastered on the side of a bus in Toronto: that spelling error was missed by the agency who put out the ad, and the cost of replacing all that media with a corrected version will be huge. And it will all be borne by the agency as a loss. At the same time, no one thinks to actually put into place any kind of system of checks in that work. There really aren't any proofreaders, there aren't any editors, there are no "controls" for quality other than "Here's what I came up with do you like it? Sign here." If the designer, printer, and copywriters are illiterate, and the client is illiterate, you'll end up with one very costly illiterate ad.

In the novel Microserfs, written way back in the last millennium, the narrator talks about coming across a computer program which translates all your english text into Prince text. The narrator works for Microsoft, as a programmer. I suspect the whole idea of using Prince Text is to shave off seconds so that increments of time are saved (and time's money) but I think it's caught on because it's just easier to use it than it is to actually spell. Particularly if you can't spell. Still: it has no place in formal business correspondence, which includes emails. But I see it all the time.

Kelkello, I think we had a similar thing happen here in Canada. I remember being taught grammar when I was a kid, and I also remember the importance that was placed on spelling things properly. I'm not sure if teachers are given that much time anymore (most are "teaching to the test" now, as we have had an altered curriculum put in place where I live too). I also know that in colleges and universities now the standards for writing skills are simply not upheld as they used to be.

That's not saying that some people are still quite literate and capable--but, really, illiteracy is the norm.
punkerplus
I'm one year younger than Blohan and I can form coherent sentences and spell the majority of words correctly. I lose a little bit more respect for her with everything she does.

Speaking of glaring errors, the 'brother' school to my own was always very cocky about their achievements and how they were higher on league tables than us. They even published a little newsletter about it with the school name "________ Grammar School" at the top. Shame they spelt it Grammer.
doodlebug
I have a feeling Lindsay's grammar and letter content may have had more to do with her state of intoxication than her education. (Which I can say nothing about, since I also was permanently in search of a buzz and a party, from ages 19 - 23.) But I don't understand why there was no one around to edit before it went to the press.
lucizoe
Exactly, doodle. Doesn't she have handlers or something?

ChaCha...Heh, I always want to snap my fingers after I read your username. Yes, English is my first language. However, I did go to a Catholic school in the mid-nineties and grammar was on the curriculum. Ugh. Catholic school. *shudder* smile.gif
chachaheels
Handlers--they are in short supply.

Lucizoe, I went to Catholic school, too. I second the Ugh, and I don't get how being taught by a bunch of fundamentalist Catholics somehow translates to "a better education". Lots of the people I went to school with still can't spell or construct a sentence either (including, I remember, some of the teachers I had). Our school newspaper was silenced because the teacher who worked on it with us forgot to actually read a "comic" spoof he reprinted from National Lampoon which featured a reference to Linda Blair in the exorcist and used the phrase "masturbates with a crucifix".

The ESL students I've worked with in the past all came over to Canada as refugees from countries where privilege, wealth, distinction--all those divisions were done away with, as they often had no schools, no home of their own, their country was war torn, you name it. The difference is that the skill of language was something that was culturally more likely to be nurtured there--perhaps they had to learn to speak more than one language, they knew more than one language or dialect and had become used to understanding the differences in sentence structure or the different meanings of the same word used by a different cultural group they had to interact with. For them, learning English could only be accomplished if they made an effort to understand the structure of the language first--so grammar was the most important part of the language learning process. Spelling is another challenge: compared to other languages, you don't get far in English if you try to spell words as they sound. So the ESL students became aware, right off the bat, that they had to pay attention to spelling in a way they hadn't had to before. It's just a different approach to language all together, and a different emphasis placed on the importance of communicating really clearly. To some extent I think we take that for granted here. We just assume we'll be understood. Lindsay Lohan assumed everyone would "get" what she was trying to say in that letter. Therefore, no handlers had to be involved.

In contrast, I did tutor nursing students (most of them native english speakers who grew up in Toronto) in anatomy and physiology, where spelling mistakes equal disaster. Change one letter in a word in that area of study and you've miscommunicated to the point where it could cost someone their health or their life. Some students could do this well, others, not so much: in any case, there didn't seem to be a lot of pressure on them to master this because their tests were all on computer modules, they were all multiple choice, and the amount of actual writing they had to do in anatomy and physiology in class (before they got into their clinic work) was minimal.
wombat
And yet, when I mention I am a published writer with good language skills and the proud owner of "The Chicago Manual of Style" on my graphic design resume, people are like: "Huh? What does that have to do with anything? Take that off."

snafooey
Isn't Lindsay's current publicist also Britney's recently fired publicist? That might explain a lot.
thepointybird
Speaking of Britney, what's all this business of her falling out of nightclubs with Paris Hilton? I know it's a good photo-op for both of them, but Britters - if you want public sympathy for your break-up, boozing it up with the only person alive who's actually scummier than your ex is maybe not the way to go about it.
dusty
I don't want to hear Michael Richards apologize. He should just go away. I don't want to hear his rant and I don't want to hear his 6 million apologies. He's just not that interesting.
chachaheels
I don't want to hear it either, considering all of it is scripted and paid for by spin doctors at this point.

And yet he's constantly making appearances, apologizing. You're a racist! Make a commitment to change that! And then go off and do it so you have no time to make endless TV apologies.
grenadine
i don't want to hear it, not only because he's not that interesting but because the WAY he apologised made it clear that he does hold racist beliefs - he totally could have claimed he was just "in character" trying to be funny, and he didn't.

i am reminded of the mr. show skit with the rapist-handlers...maybe he should have david cross, with a megaphone, yelling "racist! racist backing up!" when he pulls out of his driveway.
wombat
Welcome to the newsosphere, flogging things to death.

I had to see this stupid "Kramer" thing about ten times on the TV news, just trying to hear about kids who blew up bombs in a Walmart. Like, which story is more IMPORTANT, people?!
girlygirlgag
Egads, when he was "apologizing" on Letterman, WTF?!?!?!?! WAS THAT?

"Afro-Americans"???? That is rich.
kittenb
Yahoo news says that Pam Anderson has filed for divorce from Kidd Rock. Sigh. If only someone could have seen that coming.
bunnyb
did they not marry about a month ago?
amilita
In one of M. Richards' many apologies, he said something like how he is shocked because it came out like a freight train or something...so freaking bizzare and funny, considering it was words coming out of his own damn mouth!!!

Word that he should just shut up and go to therapy.
jemisoutrageous
There are pictures of Britney dangling HER beef drapes on Dlisted. She's getting out of a car with Paris Hilton. I just cannot.
girlygirlgag
I thought Brit Brit was trying to improve her public image? Seriously, if she is trying to impress people she needs to stop partying with Man Hands and LaLohan.
pollystyrene
Yeah, I saw a few entertainment shows talking about her hanging out (take that however you want, jem wink.gif ) with Paris and every one had some "prominent Hollywood divorce attorney" saying, "What is she thinking?!?!?!?!"
chachaheels
Well, that concludes it for me once and for all: Britney's just kinda dumb.

She, more than almost anyone else, needs handlers. Good ones--professional ones. Ones whose minds make up for what she lacks.

katiebelle2882
has anyone else seen the page 6 item about why kid rock and pam broke up? something about how he started screaming that she was a slut and a whore for her part in borat. like the guy at the superficial said, borat is probably the least slutty thing pam anderson has done since she was 12, and yelling at her for being a skeezy slut is like yelling at a smurf for being blue.
grenadine
QUOTE(katiebelle2882 @ Nov 28 2006, 04:08 PM) *

has anyone else seen the page 6 item about why kid rock and pam broke up? something about how he started screaming that she was a slut and a whore for her part in borat. like the guy at the superficial said, borat is probably the least slutty thing pam anderson has done since she was 12, and yelling at her for being a skeezy slut is like yelling at a smurf for being blue.


pam is what she is. i don't dislike her. kid rock, on the other hand, is not only a total whore, but a no-talent ass clown, to boot.
pinkpoodle
I didn't even realize those guys were married. Yeah, Kid Rock blows. Pam is okay by me though.

I was disappointed to see Britney hanging out (heh) with Paris Hilton. The divorce thing made it seem like she has a few brain cells, but obviously she's still out in la-la land.

Eeeeewwww...I can't get the image of Lohan's meat curtains out of my head. *shudders*
anna k
I read mixed things about Pam. Sometimes a person will say she's not as sweet as she makes herself out to be. and Scott Baio even said he could see a spark in her eye when she started to get more famous, like wanting more of it. But I think she's cute when she doesn't have tons of makeup on (she looked like a total sweetheart circa 1991, I could see why all those bad-boy guys wanted her), and I like picturing her at her seaside home with her kids, her friends, and a couple of big golden retrievers running around on the beach. Kid Rock seems OK, but not longterm material.

Britney losing sympathy is like seeing Denise Richards hooking up with just-divorced Richie Sambora after she gained sympathy for her stories of abuse from Charlie Sheen.
gogosgirl
frankly, when I saw Pam sprinting away from Borat (in heels yet) I was like "damn, that girl's an athlete!" and then finding out she was in on the joke...she went up a few notches in my book. if kid rock can't hang with that, who f***in' cares? let the scrimy loser go.
pinkpoodle
Pam probably has more money than Kid Rock anyway, so maybe he has some macho complex. I read an interview with Pam, and she seemed so sweet. She adores her kids and is a total animal rights activist. I don't care what she looks like or how many implants she's had removed and replaced. She seems like a good person. In fact, I'd be impressed as hell if BUST decided to interview her about that stuff. She clearly has greater concerns than her career or sexualized image. And the Borat thing was a total joke!! Of course she was aware of the humor behind it!

Britney, on the other hand, seems very nice, but majorly misguided. She's still young though. Maybe she and Blohan will grow up and show some self-respect someday. Paris Hilton is way beyond salvation though. She's the lowest of the low in my book. It's weird though, because her sister seems a lot more humble and personable. Maybe it has something to do with Paris having a lot more plastic surgery. I don't know.
grenadine
my husband was in classes with nicky hilton at eugene lang. he says she was the.stupidest.person.ever. as in he couldn't figure out how she got dressed in the morning, and she was really offensively pompous and vapid.
HOWEVER, paris was not in those classes, being too busy blowing rick solomon. i'm sure if she'd been there, nicky would've seemed an angel by contrast.

jane had that interview with pam/pam feature a while ago...
pinkpoodle
Yeah, I guess it doesn't surprise me that Nicky Hilton is a bitch, too. She still doesn't have the same freak factor that her sister has. Oh god, how I hate Paris. If I saw her in person, I would light her extensions on fire.

ETA- That's where I think I read the Pam interview, grenadine! It was short, but still pretty cool.
grenadine
there's a great article about paris in city journal called (i think) the trash princess. it's by kay hymowitz and chronicles the badness from its origin.

yeah, apparently pam was incensed that her man o'whore hubby's mom wore fur to the wedding. some article i read called it "a slap in the face." dare i hope that's why she's divoring him? it would almost make up for that heinous photo spread...

pam was actually writing a column for jane for a while, i think, pursuant to that interview.
greenbean
OH.MY.GAWD. I can't believe how out of hand this crotch-flashing thing is going. They have to be doing this on purpose right? To stay in the tabloids? It just seems faaaarrrr too coincidental that now that Brit is hanging with Paris and La Lohan, who have both "slipped up" several times, she just happens to make the same mistake?!? There's no way these are accidents. Common sense would tell them that the paparazzi is always looking for that shot, and if if sooo important for them to be sans-undies, they'd should at least wear some pants in the car and yank 'em off in the club bathroom. No, this must be some sort of initiation.
chachaheels
Why is Kid Rock even famous? What does he do, exactly?

I wish Pam would marry someone interesting and, you know, stable. Mentally stable, that is. It's like she goes out of her way to find men who just aren't all there.
raisingirl
Yeah, Grenadine, I remember Pam's regular column in Jane magazine.

At some point they did a whole fashion shoot makeunder with her, too (remember that?); she's much prettier without the five thousand layers of makeup.
grenadine
greenbean, they have to be doing it on purpose. nobody's that stupid. unfortunately, that just means they're stupid in a different way.

raisin, exactly! pam is very pretty and real-looking (and you got the impression that's how she looks at home). in that interview she seemed to have a very realistic attitude about how she was selling an image, not herself.

kid rock (that's how they say "kevin" in michigan - see gofugyourself if you haven't already) is famous because he's a tasteless, loud asshole who makes tasteless, loud music.
chachaheels
That's all it takes? You'd think there'd be nothing except loud and tasteless crappy musicians in the celebrity firmament!

Oh...wait...there's no shortage, huh?
faerietails
Apparently FedEx was having an affair with a former porn star a month before Brit filed for divorce.
wombat
WELL Chacha -- that's because like attracts like.
chachaheels
That explains it.
wombat
Pam seems just as dumb and vicious as Paris Hilton or Loni Anderson to me.

No matter how much money she has, she wants more. She's a walking plastic Pez dispenser with an extra big mouth to shove more gold bricks into her hollow insides.

I feel bad for Kid Rock that he was dumb enough to stick his dick in that. Oh, now I suppose he's supposed to stick some of his money in it too. Eyeww.

Work with charities! Talk about your children! Actually I'm quite intelligent!

That's the million-dollar ho level as opposed to the crackhead on the street ho level. Big deal.
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