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cloverbee
and even if she didn't have any more money, she could get off her baby-making ass and easily make some more.
charli
Sorry, but I no longer have any sympathy for Brit.

I'm 8 mos pregnant, have little money, have an older kid and manage to present myself in a way that doesn't scream "I'm selling myself on the streets these days". Which is what I think when I look at her.

And Trent's comments are on the money. No excuses anymore honey. Get a frigging stroller, or a front carrier. ANYTHING that keeps that child safe. She's always got him in her arms dangling. Nothing wrong with carrying the child but jesus girl don't carry him like that with a drink in hand through the crushes of the Paparazzi. She knew she was asking for trouble by doing that.

I just don't think she's smart at all. And I fear for her kids. Seriously I do.

And Amilita is on the money with her remarks about "we all survived" doesn't mean a thing anymore. These safety precautions are in place nowadays because too many of "us" DIDN'T. Even up to the early oo's there wasn't enough education of what could happen to babies and toddlers. You hear horror stories all the time of unexpected deaths because parents didn't take the time to make things safe for them.

I'm sorry but crib death was a huge, huge problem and unexplained up until the last several years. All these precautions have now decreased the statistics seriously.

And when my son was a little over 1 he did have some oopses such as a protruding collarbone due to the "baby" trampoline at the mommy and me class we went to. What was supposedly safe wasn't apparently. The poor kid also cut his finger badly on the inside of our refrigerator door.

Yeah this crap happens.

But Britney is just being a dumbass. Her common sense is sorely lacking and that's what makes this whole scenario so sad. Get the hell out of the public eye with your kid for a change and just be there with him. jesus.

bunnyb
lmao - I just read a forum discussion title "ANGELINA SHOULD ADOPT SEAN PRESTON FEDERLINE", that's some funny shit.
greenbean
Yeah, I'm waiting for the pictures of her holding him upside-down by his ankle.
choofums

I am not a Brit fan, but I seriously would love to see how perfect everyone would be when held up to the constant scrutiny of the press and critics.
amilita
I'd do horribly if held up to media scrutiny, but I never tried to have fame and I don't have the ridiculous spoils that the very famous get.

Also, there is not-perfect like an ugly outfit or running your mouth when you're drunk...and then there is not-perfect like riding in a car with your baby in your lap. One's funny. One's not.
mandolyn
lol @ greenbean's post.
lol @ the hillfiger-rose throw-down.

at the very least, britney needs better PR people. and maybe better parents herself. doesn't this kid have grandparents who care?

waiting to hear tom cruise's take on britney's parenting skills, or lack thereof. cause you know he's the man to go to for advice on parenting all of a sudden.

see? see how i can always turn it back to TC? gah. what is wrong with me?! *hanging head in shame*
greenbean
word, amilita. I see new mothers on the street quite often, who are not being followed by mobs, and they still carry their babies with both arms.
vesicapisces
Y'know, with all the commentary on how ridiculously thin LL has gotten, why isn't anyone talking about how her Nemesis, Hillary D, has gotten skeleton-thin and scary-looking?
jemisoutrageous
Oh,please. "Constant Media Scrutiny" isn't causing her to be a neglectful, abusive idiot and I am sorry, but exposing her child to cigarette and marijuana smoke, hairline fractures from falling out of unsafe high chairs, being held on a lap in a moving car without a car seat (or being put in a forward-facing one that would propel him out of the car (with the top down no less) if, god forbid, there were an accident as she drove barefoot and talked on her cell phone) and nearly being dropped because one is too much of an asshole to use a baby carrier cannot possibly be blamed on the public she ruthlessly courted.
ritahayworth
oh god, Britney's become bust's new Courtney.

I never thought I would type that sentence.
bustygirl
Every time I start feeling sorry for Brit, I remember that she's got money and nannies and free time and drivers and health care, and loads of things that overworked moms all over america don't have and who still manage to raise their kids without DRIVING WITH THEM IN THEIR LAPS IN 2006!

I mean, come one, with all that money she should be doing BETTER than the average mom, not worse.

I guess at least I don't have to look at her smug horseface, like when Julia Roberts pretends to be a mom.
jungle_pam
Okay- i just cruised into this thread and all i gotta say is anyone who feels sorry for Britney Spears or thinks everyone is too hard on her doesn't have children. I have a 21 month old and one on the way and she has done MANY things you just don't do if you actually give a shit about your kid and pay attention to safety. I seriously worry for her children and hope social services will step in again if there is another serious incident.
Oh- and about the forward facing car seat- safety experts recommend your child rear-facing until at least 18 months now, not a year and 20lbs. No matter the model of car seat. You do wonder where the f**k her mother is at letting her do all this stupid shit...Someone buy the girl a Baby Bjorn!
snafooey
Brit defends herself in a Letter of Fug
cloverbee
I think a lot of famous people actually think children are another fashion accessory. only when they are out next season it's hard to sell them on ebay.
lucizoe
hee, clover, I don't think just famous people think like that...I think there is a trend towards accessory babies throughout the social strata. Having kids seems to be some sort of elite status symbol now. You know, another way to compartmentalize people and keep up with the neighbors. Another reason not to have them :-) I have never been trendy!

Oh, gosh, the GFY girls and the Eurovision song contest...awesome
sybarite
I saw that. So. funny. But not as funny as the real thing! There was a plastic cactus on stage during the German country n' western number. Not forgetting the Moldovan reggae.

And Lordi ran away with it in the first half-hour of voting. Watch out for more death metal bands next year...
divalla
That death metal band picture gave me the most awful nightmares last night - and I'm a fan of death metal!
lysistrata
I don't know if anyone posted this yet, but I just about tore my hair out with this comment from Geri Halliwell (Ginger Spice) on the birth of her daughter, Bluebell Madonna: "as she came out of my tummy"...?! Grown women who refer to babies as coming out of their "tummies" when speaking to other adults should not be allowed to have children...or give interviews.

http://www.comcast.net/news/entertainment/index.jsp?cat=ENTERTAINMENT&fn=/2006/0 5/23/398061.html
cloverbee
http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=223892>1=7702
Okay, first you should know that I cannot stand Mrs. Pretentious herself! But the comment about her calling her a "boring bigot"? OUCH!!!
snafooey
They're just reappropriating what they consider to be "politically correct" language for their own means. While I imagine Madonna crucifying herself couldn't have been much more than one of her usual narcissistic displays, calling any kind of artistic statement or criticism "bigoted" b/c it doesn't jive with your beliefs is pretty damned weak.
pixiedust
Wow I can't belive no one else has posted thi, or maybe no one cares anymore, but on the radio this morning I heard that Angelina Jolie is rumored to be in labor. Also that her daughter is very sick and Brad wants to bring her back to the states for treatment, but Angelina is insistant that they stay until the baby is born....Yeah..I have a long boring commute.
celimene
Yeah, having a baby in Namibia was a BRILLIANT move...
tyger
i thought madonna had been crucifying herself on stage for years. i'm not sure where i got it from, though. it just seems like a very madonna thing
bunnyb
Bluebell Madonna I'm sure will be shortened to belladonna.
yummymum
I wish Madonna would get over herself.

And Angelina, what the hell is she thinking? Baby Zahara sick and cannot get the treatment she needs because Ang is hell bent on making some type of statement by staying in Africa until her baby is born? Retarded! I mean, obviously she is more worried about her image than the health of her child. Not to mention... what if the baby is born with some type of serious problem and she would need to be near more sophisticated health care anyway?

Oh and I saw on Dlisted where Nicole Richie and DJ AM have given an official statement that they have parted amicably. I'm sitting there reading this thinking... Wow, who the fuck cares? Who do they think they are that they have to give an "official" statement when they break up? Makes me want to vomit. Edited to add (no pun intended!)

Sorry you guys. I'm just totally sick of stupid celebrity behavior. And I'm in rare form today.
sybarite
There was a furore around Madonna's Like A Prayer single and (before that, I think) around another video featuring Mads prostrating herself before an altar and making out with Jesus. So yeah, tyger, she's been at this awhile. And of course, as we know, she just hates controversy.

I'd guess Namibia has decent healthcare facilities in Windhoek (its capital). I gather Namibia is also fairly stable (hence a workable infrastructure in place) so wouldn't be the worst place in Africa to have a baby. In any case, South Africa is an hour's flight away, and they have First World health care.

I think Angelina can be a nutter and Brad's probably a stoner, but relocating to Namibia isn't the worst thing they could do IMO.
kucheza
when i was sick in kenya and went to the main hospital in nairobi, i had a much better experience than in u.s. hospitals. things were sterile just like in the u.s., plus people were nicer, service was faster, and the cost was unbelievably cheaper. i know kenya is not namibia, i'm just saying that just because angelina is in africa doesn't mean her baby won't get good health care, especially since angelina is both rich and mobile.
chani
Do we even know what's wrong with Zahara? Maybe she's just got a stuffy nose or something!
celimene
Fuck Madonna. She's on my shitlist, and I WAS one of her biggest fans. She has gotten unbelievably greedy and seems to think of herself as a god now. Her tickets for this tour start at like $250! I went to her last show on her last tour in LA and thought it was expensive then, but nothing like $250. Not only that, but she has said she refuses to play any of her old music. Madge, sorry to burst your bubble, but the old stuff is the only reason anyone is going to see you!!!!
lot49
Re. Madonna. celimene, I totally agree with you. That woman's ego is like something out of a 50s horror flick.

But...why is this "crucificton" even controversial? It's a big yawner for me.

Right now, the thing that's most irritating me is the sentence "Less than 12 hours after Madonna crucified herself on a mirrored cross..." Um. She did not actually crucify herself people. If she did, well, that would be controversial.

If I can take this moment to bitch further...I listened to Madonna's latest (no I didn't pay for it). A couple of the songs are catchy. But Madonna, if any of "your people" are reading this, please note: you pondering fame and fortune is not something that's entertaining for us. Also note that lines like "I like New York/Other cities/Make me feel like a dork" make me the world embarrassed for you.

\end rant.
cloverbee
I totally agree w/ the Madonna rants. I cannot stand her. I never have been a fan of hers and those lyrics are out of control, lot.
on the baby issue, the US has one of the worst infant death rates for industrialized countries so it's not as if it's that safe to have one over here.
dusty
Tiresome woman. But then I didn't grow up listening to Madonna, I'm just a little younger than she is.
kittenb
Your conversation on Madonna reminded me of this old article from The Onion: Marilyn Manson Going Door to Door to Shock People.
greenbean
"Um. She did not actually crucify herself people."
heh, that would be awesome.

It is really naive and disrespectful to your audience not to play the songs that made you famous. I saw Deep Purple last year and they promised in their promos that they would only play their classics until the encore, when they would play new stuff. I kinda felt bad that they knew they were old men and didnt "have it" anymore, but happy that they didnt make us suffer thru the new shit. I would only see madonna if it were affordable and she only performed her 80s stuff.
tyger
i wanted to see deep purple a day or two after sarah mclachlan on her afterglow tour. on the toronto stop if you were a chick and went to the box office and said 'i want to sit my ass on the grass for deep purple' you got free tickets. it made me feel bad for them, and i wanted to go just so they'd have another enthusiastic person in the audience
celimene
I once saw Boy George in concert (this was probably 10 years ago). It was a small venue and the only reason any of us were there was to hear all the old Culture Club songs, which he refused to play. Not only were his new songs horrible, but he even did a Neil Young cover, which you can imagine was pretty embarassing. Not only that, but he got really shitty to his audience when we kept yelling "Karma Chameleon!" and "Church of the Poison Mind!", and started saying to us "This isn't the 80's anymore - no Ronald Reagan, no more Nancy you fuckers!" And where is he NOW? Oh yeah, calling the cops to his own apartment in NYC, then getting arrested for leaving his drugs laying around...
dusty
Hey, no one told me that. I paid big bucks to see DP twice in TO. The first time at Massey Hall, the second, oh, about three seats in from the grass. No need to feel sorry for them though, they have an enthusiastic audience. The first time, I looked around and thought, "Ok, these are the guys who call up Q107 and say 'I wanna hear some Deep Purple, man' and I think, who says man anymore?"
jemisoutrageous
I donit even care enough about Esther to read the entire article. She lost me when she simultated fucking a dog in "Sex'. Anyone that desperate for attention is never going to get mine. I prefer elusive, dignified cats to dog (fuckers).
vesicapisces
Re: Zahara Jolie-Pitt - for some reason I was under the impression that Zahara was HIV-positive. Am I completely out to lunch on that?
whammy_bar
Madonna hasn't ACTUALLY been crucifying herself for years. You just get that impression when you hear her yowling.

I confess I actually LIKE Axl. I thought it was sensible not to get in a bitchfight with tommy hilfiger. Please. Screaming with laughter is the only appropriate response. Also the new songs are good and he looks okay.
grrarrg
Sorry, kind of bitchy and off topic here for a second...

As a musician, I just gotta chime in on the old songs vs new songs thing.

You've *got* to expect that these people grow and change in their lives. The reason most of them get into music to begin with is because it's an expression of who they are. They are not the same people now as they were in the 80's so obviously their music is bound to change with them.

Just because that was the music you liked them doing, and that got them loads of fans to begin with doesn't mean they should have to be stuck playing them forever.

EXPECT that when you go see an older performer that they will be playing newer material. Consider yourself lucky if they throw you a bone and play a few old ones.

I understand about the fans being the reason they are where they are today, and that it's important to keep them happy. But what about quality? An artist grows up and moves on and maybe doesn't feel the same way about certain things after a few decades. They're not going to be able to give a passionate, quality performance of a song if they don't care about it any more.

Let it go. Let people move on and grow. If you can't respect that, just stay home and listen to the recordings.

/end rant
greenbean
Thats totally true if you are talking about artists, but not pop stars. We arent talking about Bob Dylan here.
bunnyb
I think it's an interesting point that grrarrg brought up ... did The Beatles play their older stuff as they developed and matured musically?

I would like to see George Michael sing Jitterbug again but somehow I don't think it's gonna happen...

However, I would only go see Madonna if she performed her older hits. If she did an Immaculate Collection revisited tour and did not charge a fortune (although I don't think Madge has any problems performing 'Like a Prayer', she did it for Live 8).
grrarrg
greenbean - I would agree if we were talking about current pop stars who wouldn't know where to begin when it comes to songwriting and will sing whatever their people tell them to.

Madonna, Boy George and Deep Purple all write/wrote their own lyrics, so in that respect, yes they're artists rather than simply pop stars.

bunny- I'm curious about the Beatles question. I'll have to find out.

One more point is that often when musicians are touring, it's to promote a new album, so it's kind of ignorant to think that you're going to get to hear all your old favorites in that scenario.
greenbean
Thats why it was so cool of Deep Purple to play all their hits first, because really, the new stuff was bad. Rock n roll is for the young I say, and when you get to a certain age, its harder to be hot and innovative. sorry. I've had this fight with my ex-boyfriend many times.
The Beatles are totally different, they were a miracle. Plus, when they did re-invent themselves it was only a few years after their debut. Some hated it some thought it was brilliant. Either way, over time the stuff holds up. Some may argue that madonna's new stuff will too, and thats fine. I'm not into it tho.

ETA: Did Madonna write her own songs? I didnt think she did.
snafooey
From what I understand, Madonna usually tends to write the lyrics more than the music. Sometimes she's clever/insightful but rhyming "New York" with "dork" is not exactly anomalous behaviour from her. Still, I do consider her an artist - albeit more of a performance artist than a musician.

Anyway, Aretha Franklin never wrote most of her own lyrics, as far as I know. Is she not an artist? What about the issue of interpretation?

Also, if Dylan only played new stuff, fans would freak, wouldn't they? I saw Lou Reed a few years ago and while he played some (most?) of his better known songs, he skipped over "Take a Walk on the Wild Side" completely. I didn't mind (I think it's a perfect pop production - I think a lot of the effect would be ruined live), but there was a certain amount of grumbling as people left the theatre (no catcalls during the show b/c I think people assumed he was probably leading up to it in the encore along with "Perfect Day" and "Sweet Jane").

Unless your material is really consistent (Neil Young? I don't know), I think it's hard not to disappoint the fans. I don't usually care either way b/c if I'm going to pay that much money to see someone, I'm familiar with more than just the hits, but when you turn music into a commodity - and an expensive one at that - those are the consequences. If someone only goes to a couple of concerts a year, they're not really going to care about your artistic growth.

Tyger, you're in T.O.?
greenbean
Yes, snafooey! "Commodity" is a good word! I went to see Deep Purple for the commodity of it, and they knew that and they played up to it. Really, everyone there wasnt really going for "Deep Purple" they were going to recapture the feeling of their youth (or in my case, an imaginary past full of pot smoking in some guy's Trans-Am looking for a party).
On the flip side, I would also go see Billie Holiday (if she were still alive) no matter what she would perform, because she was such a great vocal stylist. It didnt matter if she didnt write her songs, she was still an artist.
snafooey
Heh - well, it's not like I agree entirely so much as I think it's an unfortunate reality. Most musicians and artists are not very successful (monetarily, that is); the ones that make it to Madonna's level are often there as much b/c of the way they've sold themselves (or at least benefitted from the system) as the music itself. I mean, I was kind of amused that Lou Reed didn't play what is generally considered to be his signature song, but I think that's b/c in my mind, I've defined him as "an artist." But really, who am I to make that distinction? Who gets to decide who has to the ride the nostalgia train or not?
dusty
I don't know how you can use the Beatles to illustrate a discussion of playing their old hits or moving on. They weren't even together for ten years.

Bob Dylan could play all his old hits and no one would recognize them because he never sings anything the same way twice so that's kind of a moot point as well.

I think the way it usually works is this: you throw the audience a bone and play the old hits and you make it look like you're having a good time. In return, you get to play your new stuff. I should know. I'm middle aged and I get to see lots of live geezer rock.
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