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sassygrrl
oops. Didn't see bunny's post.

I'm just so excited! smile.gif
bunnyb
kitten, wrong series. I thought I'd mix it up a bit.
kittenb
Hey! No fair changing the rules!

However, I think I have it.

Fred in ANGEL when she tries to send her old professor to Pylea.

Don't know the name of the episode.
bunnyb
you got it! episode name is "Supersymmetry".

It was actually prophecy_grrl who made the first Angel quote and I thought it was a nice change but we can revert to all Buffy, I don't mind.

Angel has some cracking one liners; I'm re-watching season three now.
kittenb
Oh no. I think we should expand it to Angel and Firefly. We've done Buffy pretty hard so far.

Let's see what I can come up with...

I have to say that last quote was so hard for me. It sounded like a Buffy line bu the voice in my head did not sound like Buffy. Now I know why.
kittenb
"Won't she find it difficult, enjoying delicious jelly-filled doughnuts, if she is, one assumes, bound and gagged?"
kittenb
Do you all need a clue?

Wesley..........
bunnyb
Ah, Wesley about Faith in season 2 of Angel! Can't remember the episode but obviously after she tortures Wes then turns to Angel for help (before Buffy turns up).
kittenb
You got it!
bunnyb
"Feels like somebody works out."
lestercrawley
This is old news on this thread, but I just wanted to remind some of you and inform others that Joss Whedon and Eliza Dushku have got a new FOX show for later this year called Dollhouse. It won't be debuting until mid-season, so I'll try to get the word out again before its premiere if somebody else doesn't take care of it first.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111797513...yid=14&cs=1
kittenb
x-posted in the She's Crafty thread...

Because you never know who is reading what where and when i am going to post this here:

Calling Geek Crafters: We Want To Interview Joss Whedon and We Need Your Help!

Kids, CrochetMe.com—nay, the entire online crafts community—needs your help with something that could be so much fun, I can't even find words for it. We need you to help us get Joss Whedon's attention.

Who's Joss Whedon? We know many of you already know, because you've chatted here about your love for his work, like the TV shows he created: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, and Firefly. And the movie Serenity. And the Astonishing X-Men comics and the Buffy comics, too.

And it's possible that this week you watched Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog (and if you haven't yet, you should; it's free for a limited time!). And maybe you read Whedonesque, the massive and wonderful site about all the people and projects remotely related to Joss Whedon's work.

See, Joss Whedon is a wicked creative guy, and he entertains us. And last week recently, in a tongue-in-cheek response to an interview question on the Wired blog, he practically begged for a crochet publication to interview him*. And CrochetMe.com simply must be that pub. Why? A bulleted list will tell you:

Just the thought of this makes me giggle. And as we all should know by now, absurdity is a big and special part of the internets.
He's trying something new on the internet with Dr. Horrible, and we love trying new things on the internet, too. If we knew people like Neil Patrick Harris and Nathan Fillion and Felicia Day, we'd want to do fun things like crochet with them, too.
Tons of crafty types are geeks who love to combine crafts with their geekiness. And tons are geeks who never thought to combine their loves. And some aren't geeks at all, but would be thoroughly entertained by an interview with Joss, too.
Holy crap, have you seen Geek Central Station?
There are hundreds of crocheted or knitted Jayne hats posted on Ravelry, alone.
Speaking of Ravelry, there are over 900 members in a group on there that's devoted just to Whedon's work.
Loads of crafters don't have any idea who Joss Whedon is and have never known his work. We can't just sit around and not seize this speck of an opportunity to try to remedy that.
Ok, enough bullets; this is a peaceful blog. We're revisiting our grassroots... roots... here, and asking the whole community to help us. If we all play together, we can have a load of fun. Here's what you can do (I lied about the bullets; at least these have numbers):

Blog about this and link back here; post about this on the crafty boards you frequent.
Speak up. Thousands of you read this blog. Some of you must know someone who might know someone who can help us get a hold of someone who can tell Joss Whedon how much fun it would be to spend a few minutes with us, even over email.
Got a Whedonesque membership or know someone who does? Let them know what we're up to! Kiba posted about us!
Got ideas for what else we can do? We're all ears.

ETA three bullets (21 July):

Know someone who's made or bought some Whedoncraft? Phone them up or email them or Twitter them or otherwise nag them till they post about it here!
Got some contacts at a big blog somewhere? Or maybe you just like being an enthusiastic anonymous tipper? Let those big-blog writers know! There's enough fun in this to spread it all over the internets, from the crafts world to the tech world to the geek world, and beyond.
Remember: Just like crafty people wear many hats and can be found all over the internets due to their other interests both professional and recreational (how come there are so many crafters? Because we're doctors and teachers and lawyers and scientists and writers...), Whedon fans are everywhere, too! That means pretty much any place you hang out online is a good place to post about this (you know, within reason).

pollystyrene
I'm in the conceptual stages of Buffy & Angel sock monkeys right now. Gotta finish star's Frida Kahlo one, first though. smile.gif
sassygrrl
Polly, any way you could do a Firefly one?

Did any Whedon fans go to the Serenity screenings last night? The one here in Atlanta raised over a thousand which was good. Plus, there was a nifty silent auction.
Persiflager
Hello with a big squeal of excitement for having found this thread! In response to bunnyb's quote, is it Lorne saying it? I can't remember which episode but I can hear it in his voice.
bunnyb
Gawd, it was so long ago I almost forgot! It was Lorne though!

A Buffy/Angel sock monkey would be so cool!

I need to re-watch Firefly and Serenity soon.
pollystyrene
Honestly, I am not normally a sci-fi/fantasy-type person and Buffy/Angel and Harry Potter have been my only forays into the genre (other than the occasional Ray Bradbury story) and while LeBoy is a huge Firefly fan, I've never watched an episode. (I do plan on watching Dollhouse, though.) LeBoy is actually re-watching the series now...I'm sure he could be persuaded to start from the beginning if I wanted. I might. I'll let you know how I feel about it and if I think there's monkey potential there, though! tongue.gif
crazyoldcatlady
:::peeks head in:::

dude, i am so a convert on firefly. i was skeptical, even through the first ep, but they just get better and better... and the movie was fantastic; could almost stand on its own. polly, seriously, check it out. firefly was my first whedon experience. i've never watched buffy, but i'm thinking about checking it out now that i know how clever his universe is.

sassy, what was the screening all about?

and persiflager, i'm diggin' the avatar wink.gif
Persiflager
Yay, thanks crazyoldcatlady! I love xkcd!

Glad I got that much right bunnyb, but can't narrow it down any more than that - my angel knowledge is relatively weak mad.gif
bunnyb
persiflager, I thought I'd already posted this, sorry: Lorne says it when he is not quite all of himself.

polly, have you started to watch Firefly yet? You won't regret it, if you do!
Persiflager
Aha, 'No place like Plrtz Glrb'!

"You're a nummy treat."
kittenb
Hush?
Persiflager
Aye! I love the barely repressed sexual tension between Spike and Xander biggrin.gif
kittenb
"The last time I tortured someone they didn't even have chainsaws."
bunnyb
Angel to Giles in "Passion"?
kittenb
Yeah, I knew that was a bit of a "gimme."
bunnyb
Another easy one:

"I mock you with my monkey pants"
kittenb
What's My Line Pt. 2?
kittenb
I was right. biggrin.gif

"Yes, but I'm paralyzed by not caring."
lestercrawley
Just a heads-up to let you know that Joss Whedon's new series Dollhouse will be debuting on FOX this Friday (2/13). The network has already rejected Joss's original pilot just like they did for Firefly, so I won't be surprised if they do everything they can to sabotage this new show's chances for survival. I might TiVo it but wait to catch it on DVD since that turned out to be the best way to watch Firefly after its disastrous run on TV.
lestercrawley
Dollhouse!
crazyoldcatlady
woot!
9pm, is it?
roseviolet
Yup, 9pm eastern time on Fox. Wee!
roseviolet
So, who watched Dollhouse last night? And what did you think?

I'm still kinda on the fence. I think I'll have to watch a few more episodes to decide what I really think. Sheff is wondering how there's going to be any true character development (and how we'll learn to care about her) if the main character's personality is completely different in every single episode.
crazyoldcatlady
rosev, what you have highlighted in black was actually the concern of many reviewers/bloggers. i personally think it will work b/c there's a certain "quantum leap" aspect to it; fun new adventures every week, with the implied promise that we'll get to know a little bit more about echo's past every episode (also draws similarities to the helpless/not helpless dynamic of river tam on firefly)

i can't really give a full review on it, as i kept getting interrupted during the latter half, but i think eliza dushku is a poor choice as lead. now, i generally trust all things whedon-y, but her (ha)cting was stretched. she's not that good, and i'm wondering if she has the chops to branch out each week.

also, i found it distracting that summer glau (of terminator) and eliza were together promoting the series during the break. distracting how? i kept looking at these two WAIFS--two people whose natural set-weight i am positive includes *at least* 10 more lbs--who are cast as physical dynamos, when i'm sure i could probably kick their ass. this is a digression, i know, but just think how different xena would be if, say, an olsen twin, were playing her rather than the WOMAN lucy lawless.


eta: or, with some afterthought, maybe the casting choice/body type was intentional, perhaps to highlight the helplessness, insignificance, non-descript nature of the dolls. i could go around in circles on this.

eta #2: i missed the end, kind of. did the rogue agent go to echo's real house and kill her parents and go through their things? was he a former doll himself?

eta#3: i saw male dolls there. when do we get to see THEM kick ass in black leather? no, really.
lestercrawley
Nothing to worry about. Joss Whedon is all about character development, and from everything I've read, Dollhouse will be no exception. You just gotta give it time and see how it flows. The comparison to Quantum Leap is interesting cause I was thinking the same thing when I heard about the show's premise. Scott Bakula had to adapt to each "character" he was portraying from one week to the next, but he was always Sam underneath it all. Echo doesn't seem to have a dominant personality challenging the roles she has to adopt, at least not initially. Anyway, I haven't watched the first episode yet and will probably just catch it all on DVD as I mentioned earlier.
girltrouble
QUOTE
also, i found it distracting that summer glau (of terminator) and eliza were together promoting the series during the break. distracting how? i kept looking at these two WAIFS--two people whose natural set-weight i am positive includes *at least* 10 more lbs--who are cast as physical dynamos, when i'm sure i could probably kick their ass. this is a digression, i know, but just think how different xena would be if, say, an olsen twin, were playing her rather than the WOMAN lucy lawless.

lol... it's the transporter2 syndrome, where a action hero takes a half hour to take out a paper thin model who'd break her wrist picking up a piece of toast.
stargazer
i'm thinking we are going to learn over time about the dollhouse movement. if that makes sense. the first epi was alittle confusing for me.
roseviolet
COCL, I have the same doubts about Eliza Dushku. I am just not sure she can handle taking on a whole new personality in every single episode. I can understand that Toni Collette is capable of taking on 4 different characters in one show, but they're expecting a whole lot more of Eliza.

By the by, I was not interrupted at all during the show, but I still don't really understand that last scene. It seems to be the home of someone who knew Echo from before, but I think the true details were kept from the audience for a reason. I'm sure all will be revealed in time as we learn more of her back story.

Anybody else find the Dollhouse itself to be kinda ... weird? It looked like some pseudo-zen spa thingamy. And the little sleeping compartments? Holes in the floor with sliding lids? Why the lids? Is there risk that they'll wander away in their sleep?


pollystyrene
I have faith (ha, no pun intended) that it will be good eventually, but I was kinda bored with the episode. As I've said before, sci-fi/fantasy is not something I'm usually interested in and neither are spy/crime thriller-type shows, so as a basic genre, this is a stretch for me. The only thing that kept me watching Buffy is that there was such character development, such positive feminist values and a great deal of humor in the script. So far, I'm not really getting any of this, and since I'm not into the genre, I did not have any sort of instant attraction to this.

But I'll keep watching. People who have seen upcoming episodes say that things will make more sense and there will be more Whedon-esque humor in the future. We'll see.
bunnyb
I missed the Whedon-esque humour too.

Too early to make my mind up although I'm sure I'll keep watching anyway as it's Whedon. I used to love Quantum Leap when I was younger.

It's weird but when Eliza Dushku's real personality (Caroline?) was shown at beginning, all I could think of was Faith but then her active personalities didn't remind me at all (perhaps because they aren't fully-fledged characters).

I want to know the back-story of Amy Acker's character, as well as obviously Echo's.

Do you think that her being named Echo is syymbolic? that she will always possess reverberations of her past/past active personalities?

I think we eventually get to see all of the active's in action (leather clad, perhaps).
roseviolet
Is anybody still watching Dollhouse?

Sheff & I totally forgot to watch the 2nd episode. Not a good sign. I remembered to watch the 3rd episode last night, but we weren't impressed. Sheff feels really torn. It took a number of episodes for us to get sucked into Firefly & eventually we really liked that show, so he thinks it might be worth sticking with Dollhouse for another week or so. I'm not so sure. The storylines are not intriguing to me at all, I don't care for any of the characters, & there are just too many skinny, stupid girls in skimpy outfits. It feels a bit insulting.
stargazer
The second episode was pretty good and went further into some character development. I was not too happy about this episode with the exception for the ending when it looked like Echo's memory wasn't fully erased. It seems too uneven right now. I hope the other episodes are like the second one.
pollystyrene
I think it's getting better. I'm still having a hard time understanding the underlying plotline with Alpha and the cop and the Russian (?) guy and all that. Everything we've read, reviews from people who've seen more episodes and interviews with Eliza Dushku say that people should hold out until episode 6. Here's a quote from the interview in the A.V. Club:

AVC: It isn’t like Joss is some new kid on the block, though. He has a lot of shows under his belt, and he’s got this large cult following. Is it frustrating when you get that kind of feedback?

ED: Honestly, yes. I understand it from a business perspective, and from Fox’s view, but at the same time, we’ve now done 13 episodes, and people have said that the show took off once they finally realized that Joss is best off left alone to do his thing. That happens around episode six—six through 13 are just extraordinary. I love one, two, three, four, and five, but Joss’ first script that he did after the pilot is number six, which is called “Man On The Street,” and it is just unbelievable. From that point on, the world unfolds in Joss’ way, with Joss’ speed, and it’s really remarkable.


Basically, they're using the first 5 episodes to get people hooked (people who wouldn't necessarily watch a show just because Joss Whedon created it) and after that it will be more like the Whedon shows we know and love.
grrrlyouwant
QUOTE(pollystyrene @ Feb 28 2009, 10:07 AM) *
Basically, they're using the first 5 episodes to get people hooked (people who wouldn't necessarily watch a show just because Joss Whedon created it) and after that it will be more like the Whedon shows we know and love.


and that's where they're going to fuck it up. that's what fox did to firefly, changing episode order and leaving some out, trying to get "regular folks" interested, and legions of browncoats weren't enough to keep it on the air. they need to start with the interesting, exciting, in-depth story lines that joss is known for right off the bat. the second episode gave some nice background info, but did it feel out of place to anyone else? usually the 'how we got here/background' info-dump ep is a mid-series tool. right now we've got too much information. the fbi agent, alpha, the mysterious dude sending the cop info about echo/caroline, the russian mob involvement, crazy hunter dude slipping past the failsafes. i think joss's regular fanbase wants to know "okay, what's up with all this shit?", but ordinary folk? are probably like "nope, too much shit going on, let's see what's on nbc right now." they don't care about the series or the characters, and that's what's going to kill it.
crazyoldcatlady
i agree that it takes a few episodes to get into anything whedon.

my problem is eliza dushku. she is all. wrong. for the part. and i can't get behind her as a protagonist. i know whedon likes to keep his actor circle tight, but she has neither the chops nor the physical capacity to convincingly pull off echo.

(as a side note, in keeping with whedon's circle, alpha is rumored to be alan tudyk of firefly fame.)

i'm also very put-off by the "whoring-out" aspect of the dolls. now, i know there's probably some feminist commentary in there somewhere, but that's often overshadowed and undermined by dushku's near complete nudity in every single episode/advertisement.



friday night is also not an optimal night to get a show off the ground...although, it can be done, re: the xfiles. PLUS, dollhouse prolly has even more of a chance b/c of the interwebs. i've been catching them the week after they air on hulu.com. i haven't committed to a new series from the first air date in idon'tknowhowlong.
roseviolet
I watched the 2nd episode on Hulu so I'm all caught up now. Still not impressed.

After watching Dollhouse this weekend, I also decided to watch the pilot episode of Arrested Development on Hulu. That really helped me see some of what is so wrong with Dollhouse. True, they are two very different genres, but AD caught my attention immediately. Within the first 2 minutes of that show, I already had a firm grasp of the characters & I really wanted to watch more. Excellent writing and character development from the get-go.

I'm not getting that at all from Dollhouse. I do not want to have to watch 6 whole hours of a show before it starts getting good. It shouldn't work that way. If you can't make a show worth my while in the first hour, then there are some major writing problems. If this show gets canceled, it's because it deserves to be.

The characters are all so thin & one-note. Not just the dolls like Echo, but everyone. The only person who ever says anything at all amusing is Topher, but he spends maybe 2 minutes on screen per episode. Eliza Dushku is pretty bland. I honestly think the best work she has done for this show was in the Hulu ad that aired on Friday night. In that she seemed fun & interesting, but she's dull as rocks in the show. Too bad the ad had to end with her seductively licking a straw covered in thick, vanilla milkshake. The blatant sexuality is really getting on my nerves.

Speaking of blatant sexuality, can I tell you how much I hate the opening credits? I HAAAAAAAAATE them. And the naked scrolling shots at the top of each ad break are also insulting. And the whoring. I have read that the point of all of this over-sexualization is to make us uncomfortable. Well, I'm sure a lot of guys out there are uncomfortable watching that shit, but only because their pants are suddenly feeling a bit too tight. If Joss is trying to send out a message on morality & objectification, he's doing a piss poor job.

Blame Fox, blame Whedon, whatever. I don't care. Maybe I'll give this show another shot when the 6th or 7th episode comes around just to see if the rumors are true, but I'm not making any promises.
bunnyb
I'm worried about it being cancelled when even Whedon fans won't give it a chance. I'm prepared to give up an hour a week if the alternative is no Whedon on TV at all.

COCL, I read the same about Alan Tudyk too (one of my friends was appalled and said that the dolls were supposed to be super-sexy and who would want their perfect date to be with a ginger minge?) Until I read that I thought that perhaps the Agent was somehow Alpha and that was how he knew the Dollhouse existed somewhere.

I am reserving judgement on certain features of the show until I've seen some more episodes; the first season of Buffy was far from perfect and yet it is still one of my favourite TV shows.
roseviolet
Bunny, I've heard other Whedon fans give the Buffy argument, too. I've read a few encouraging reviews, but they all seem to be written by manic Joss fans. I honestly don't get it. If Joss Whedon's name were not attached to this project, would these people watch this show again? Are they hanging on because they liked Buffy & they're hoping this show will eventually morph into some sort of Buffy 2.0?

I'm not approaching this show as a Whedon fan. I'm just accepting the show as-is. Granted, I would never have watched this show in the first place if it weren't for Joss, but once the episodes begin, I accept what I'm given with no preconceived notions because I know that Joss is not entirely in control. This is not just Joss' show. It's Fox's show. It's also Eliza's show (she's the one who got the development deal with Fox). Based on what I've seen so far, I don't like it. Even if it had been written by my best friend I would not like it & I would probably have to find a way to kindly tell her that it's too painful for me to watch anymore. Is it the worst show on television? Of course not. But it still isn't worth my time.

I hear the Neilsen numbers for the 2nd episode were much lower than episode 1. I wonder how long Fox will keep it on the air. Will we even see these later, better episodes? Remember that Buffy was on the WB during its early days. The WB was just starting out & desperate to fill time slots. Plus they didn't require larger audience numbers, so it was okay that it took a while for Buffy to catch on. Larger networks like Fox can't afford to wait that long & they certainly will not be satisfied with the numbers provided by the Whedonite fan base alone. To keep Fox happy, the audience needs to grow & it doesn't look like that is happening.

Joss should just get a deal with SciFi Network. They don't require the kind of numbers as larger networks like Fox. Plus they'll probably give Joss the freedom to do his own thing. I bet if Firefly had been on Sci Fi Network instead of Fox we'd still be watching new episodes today.
bunnyb
Joss made a deal with Fox to guarantee airing of a certain amount of episodes, I can't remember the number.

I'm not looking for a Buffy 2.0 but I do have high hopes for a show from Joss, which granted have not been fulfilled yet but the potential is there.

If you don't like it then you don't like it, rose.
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