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girltrouble
what do you mean, ruined the first movie?

the original buffy came before the tv series. personally, i loved the movie. it was perfect for it's time. the 80's needed that sort playful, silly and very funny vampire movie. it had pee wee herman as one of the lead vampires. that alone gives it mass credit in my book. the original buffy-- the movie buffy-- was a very different animal than the teenaged drama that whedon spun off. but you can't say that he ruined buffy. he created her, whedon made her into something much greater, but kuzui created the foundation for whedon, and as executive producer and owner of the copywrite, anything that whedon did would have had to be run by him.
candycane_girl
I just read that the new Buffy movie will have nothing to do with the franchise. So which is it?

I'm a much bigger fan of the TV series but I loved the original Buffy movie when I was little. I thought Kristy Swanson was the coolest person ever.
Persiflager
I think Joss created Buffy and wrote the script/screenplay for the film, but didn't have any artistic control over the direction etc. The film was very different from what Whedon had envisaged, which was one of the things that made him want to re-do it as a TV series.

I don't hate the film - I quite enjoy it, in a trashy sort of way, but it's so far removed from the TV series that I don't relate the two.

I think when they say the new Buffy won't have anything to do with the franchise, they mean that they'll use the mythology of the world but have entirely new characters and ignore the Buffy Season 8 comics etc. They'll basically re-do Buffy in their own way, which doesn't sounds particularly good to me.

ETA: Apparently they're going to copy the Star Trek re-boot by putting it in an alternative universe.
girltrouble
i stand corrected. whedon wrote the original script, i owe you an apology, aural. i just assumed, and well, we all know about what happens when you do that. wink.gif
auralpoison
No problem, GT. My understanding is that Whedon was so pissed that they were trying to make Buffy fluffy that he walked off set one day & never came back.

I remember seeing the Buffy movie junior year, the only parts I liked were the overall queen-y performance by Rutger Hauer & the scene with Swanson & Paul Ruebens where she says, "Oh yeah? CLAP!" Lines like that & a few others show how clever the first script probably was before it got watered down like so much fruit punch at a non-vampire prom.

I did like Buffy's white Docs & Luke Perry's leather jacket.

Honestly, I'm not too surprised this happened. Buffy merch was big bucks. I have a friend, a grown-assed MAN that has probably upwards of 200 items of Buffybilia.
Persiflager
If they wanted to do a story with all different characters, they could so easily do one about a new Slayer who got called at the end of season 7 and hasn't heard of Buffy etc yet - it could be consistent with canon without being part of it, like lots of the spin-off novels. Re-using the Buffy name just seems like a really lazy and cynical way to make more money (so yes, not really that surprising).

Given the fan reaction online, I'd like to say that I don't think anyone would pay to see it, but I think that might be naive.
prophecy_grrl
Re: Buffy reboot - did anyone see this response (in favor of a Joss-less Buffy) on io9.com? Hmm, I must say he makes some good points, but it still seems like a colossal mistake to me. I'm not such a crazy fan girl that I can't bear to see anyone else take on Buffy (actually, I think Brian K. Vaughn could do some amazing shit with Buffy), but I think 1) it's too soon, the TV series ended just 6 years ago and the Joss-run comic is still going strong. I think a re-boot would have to happen when the Buffyverse has been dormant for a number of years; at a point when our collective Buffy memory has lapsed enough to handle seeing other actors/characters in the universe 2) the Kazuis should not be involved. Yes, the original movie has some fun camp value, but it was a critical and commercial failure, why would a studio want the people behind the failed movie and not the guy behind the successful TV show/comic? Boggles the mind.

Unrelated to the current discussion - I've been avoiding this thread for awhile, because I was waiting to finish Dollhouse (had 'em saved up on Tivo for marathon viewing), now that I've seen it all, I can officially say Wow! It did take me sometime to get into it, but those last 2 eps were especially good. Can't wait for season 2!
kittenb
PG - you make the point that I have been fretting over. A re-boot only makes sense when the series is dead and needs revitalizing (BSG, Star Trek, etc.) Doing it now just seems stupid and greedy.
Persiflager
Buffy smacks down Edward Cullen.
epinephrine
Holy shit. That was fucking brilliant! And so true. Twilight was so creepy, in a way that had nothing to do with vampires. Love how they improvised with a Harry Potter clip!
Persiflager
Ha! Music video by Jed Whedon and Felicia Day.

Off to watch all episodes of The Guild now....
sassygrrl
Heh. Mcgeek found that video on FB, and we watched all of Season 1 of the Guild last night... smile.gif
sybarite
OMG.

Have any of you seen the unaired, post-apocalyptic Dollhouse epi? (S1E13)

One of the most awesome things I've seen, brings the Dollhouse scenario thoroughly into sci-fi territory. Fantastic. Mind you, I have no idea what they're going to do with series 2 after setting up the future (episode is set in 2019).
crazyoldcatlady
is there anyway to see them without buying the dvd box set??
Persiflager
I downloaded it...

I'm enjoyed it, but I'm glad it wasn't aired - the flashbacks told us so much, it would have taken away a lot of tension from season 2. And the moralising was too overt for me - one of the things I liked about Dollhouse was the way it explored grey areas rather than being all 'rah, stealing brains is bad!'.

That said, Whiskey's appearance and end scene were superbly creepy and moving. And I always like Felicia Day.
vibrator
Buffy is great! I love the reruns, it never gets old. Love the whole angel angle also, I use to watch it every morning.
kittenb
I've been watching Dollhouse w/The Geek. Last night, we finally finished everything that has been aired. I still haven't seen Ep 13 (Omega, I think it's called) but now it we can both watch it. Can't wait.
sybarite
Persi, I am optimistically hoping JW will find a way to work with all of that exposition...otherwise season 2 will have to be very brief!
Persiflager
If the episode has been unaired, does it still count as canon? And whether or not it's aired, do you think they could get away with having it asone of several potential futures?

Maybe season 2 won't deal with it directly, but will hint that the consequences from various events will increase/decrease the probability of ep13 becoming reality.
sassygrrl
I wore my first Serenity/Firefly shirt this weekend that was a Wash reference to dinosaurs. I thought it was appropriate considering we were heading to a science museum with a dinosaur exhibit. It's from the pilot episode when he says "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal" and it's a t-rex and stegosaurus. smile.gif I had fun explaining the show.

Still need to rent Dollhouse, as I haven't seen more than the first episode. Oh, The Guild is coming back on tonight online. I'm just stoked about Dragoncon's Browncoat meetup.
sybarite
It could certainly be argued that epi13 isn't integral to season 1 for several reasons (its timeline for starters). I think the assumption (by Fox/US TV)will be that most people watching season 2 haven't seen epi 13. At the same time, JW is hugely conscious of his fanbase and fan behaviours, so in developing the storyline for S2 he could slip in the odd reference or hint.

I think I agree that JW will work with the probabilities of that scenario occurring rather than anything more overt. I think I'll see S2 as more pedestrian compared to E13 though, at least at first...
Persiflager
I'm a dappy romantic, and want to believe that Sierra and Victor will fall in love, and their love will triumph over all! rolleyes.gif
sybarite
Oh, me too!
kittenb
The Geek and I decided that the unoffical title for the 13th episode is Dollhouse: WTF Dude?

I can't see to get the spoiler box activated so I am going to write in white for my spoilers: I do not think that season 2 has to be influenced by the unaired epsiode as much as the next seasons have to indicate that that horrible reality is a possible result of Dollhouse tech. As people said a few times, "Fantasy is the Dollhouse's business but it is not their mission." Clearly the mission was to allow rich people to steal young and healthy bodies. We have already seen signs of that possibility. And the tech could destroy civilization as we know it. Again, this is mentioned in the first season when Adelle says something about how she does not see herself leading to the fall of society.
I don't think the furture is set in the Dollhouse-verse. However, I do think that shades of this impending evil should keep popping up.
Another point, Topher blew me away in the 13th episode!!! Loved him and Adelle when they were in the pod while he had his break down. Great writing and acting and it showed a sign of Adelle that we didn't always get to see.


Good stuff!
crazyoldcatlady
anyone watch the dollhouse season premiere?

dewitt's new hair has to go.


and also, the episode sucked balls.
stargazer
QUOTE(crazyoldcatlady @ Sep 26 2009, 05:34 AM) *
and also, the episode sucked balls.


Well aren't we rather cranky. wink.gif

I think I told myself not to expect an exciting episode. I was remembering last season and how people said that Whedon has a tendency to pick up after a couple of episodes. I did like how they explained Saunders being made into a doctor. Amy Acker did a spectacular job of portraying her as this unraveling, scared woman. So, when they showed her driving, was she just able to step away or was she leaving Dollhouse for good?
sybarite
I liked the premiere (especially Jamie Bamber as a london wide boy arms dealer--nice). I liked the way they showed not just the unravelling of poor Dr Saunders, but of Echo, and even the beginnings in Topher, as well. To me it foregrounded a lot of the behaviour in E13, and the press conference introduces some good content to come too.

I think Saunders/Whiskey will be back; she's getting more interesting.
I thought it set up the season well, and was far much less of a compromise to Fox than, say, the first 4-5 epis of season 1.
girltrouble
whew! i came in here to ask how many eps of dollhouse i'd missed when i stumbled across the last 10 minutes last night. thanks busties!!
crazyoldcatlady
...of course acker/topher was the highlight smile.gif

i suppose i *was* expecting something better, since the unreleased episode was balls out. but this one visually just looked like the show was on a budget, the plot was a whole stew of WTF, and jesus god, someone get eliza dushku some acting lessons. i've come to accept that i watch the show for everyone BUT her, and alas, she had the most screen time.

it was fun watching it the context of the the unreleased episode, especially boyd and whiskey/claire....
sybarite
I am enjoying the second season of DH so far, although I too watch it for everyone except Eliza Dushku. I had such a crush on her as Faith but she just can't carry a show, even when she's the producer. I am curious to see if they will explain further why Paul is drawn to Caroline, although by the time they do I may have stopped caring...

I am very curious about how they're going to bring back Claire.

I am bemused to see Whedon ransacking the BSG universe for cast members. Col. Tigh shows up in epi 3.

...and I've just tried to use the Spoiler option and, yet again, the lounge won't let me. Wtf? Anyone else getting this?
stargazer
Syb, I agree that this season seems to improve with each epi. I wish Ballard didn't become her handler so soon. I wish they would've kept her Echo's original handler for part of this season (I forget the character's name). I would like to see more tension built up between Echo and Ballard. Like you, it just seems like Ballard's obsessed with Echo at this point.

I mentioned to my mom (we watch the show together) about cocl's disappointment with Dushku's acting...we both agree that she is a doll and her characters are pretty one dimensional. Not sure how much is her or the character. I'm looking forward to see how Sierra became a doll in next week's epi.

I did love the scene where Victor was in the club and the doll character of Kiki took over him. Funniest scene of the season so far! I didn't know he had it in him to dance like that! tongue.gif
sybarite
Episode 4 and we're back to the awesomeness of S01 at its best. Best episode since the apocalyptic one.

I feel like the show is working on two levels: the individual engagements (and whatever wardrobe opportunities they give Dushku) and the larger plot movement to what we saw in the 2019 epi. Certainly this epi provided another bit of exposition towards that scenario.

Argh! Once again I can't seem to get the spoiler function to work! I'll just say this was quite an emotional episode and well as kicking ass.
crazyoldcatlady
i was a few ep's behind and finally caught up online the other day (yay for hulu).

two random thoughts:

1. has anyone ever seen a female handler??

2. glad mellie came back around. since they took her out of those dowdy clothes you can really see what a great curvy figure she has. and i'm not talking beyonce-size-six curvy. honest to goodness va va voom. :::silently prays mellie will snap eliza and take over:::

i'll be back when i watch ep 4...
girltrouble
i'm with you, cat lady. i was crushing on her from day one. curvy=awesome.
crazyoldcatlady
ah, finally watched ep. 4.

DAMMIT! why do i have to sit through 3 terrible episodes for the fucking awesome ones? that was right on. sierra really got to shine. the whole cast, actually, continues to amaze me. (except eliza, and the dude who plays ballard is getting old fast, too).

ratio for dollhouse success = 10:1 ratio of whole cast to eliza screen time.

okay, i'll stop shitting on her now, but star, i think it's eliza's lack of range as opposed to her not getting good material to show off her chops. every doll she's played has had zero nuance. hell, she's the best when she's NOT an active, and just mindlessly roaming the dollhouse...

random side note: holy hell, topher has a BODY. did you see that shit in the last few scenes where he was wearing a tight shirt? who knew?!
auralpoison
For anybody that doesn't know, Dollhouse has gotten the axe. They are shooting the eleventh episode right now, it looks like Fox is going to let them complete the thirteen run cycle & *will* air the remaining eps.
kittenb
Yup, I heard. wacko.gif So annoying but the raytings were abysmal this year.
crazyoldcatlady
yeaaaaaaaaaaaah... not unexpected. well, at least we have some summer glau to look forward to...
sybarite
OMG, the new episode is amazing! Actually worth waiting a month for: we're back to a long-term story and away from silly engagement scenarios. Great developments and some growing questions around Adele's loyalty. Also: Summer Glau, with bells on. She's the female Topher and it is awesome (if scary).
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