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chachaheels
I have loved cheddar since I was a kid--and now I can find a raw milk cheddar in Kensington Market. The difference in the taste is just unbelievable. So. Much. Better. I'd even pay much more for it, but I'm finding that the price is comparable to the inferior pasteurized stuff now. Love the fact that the raw milk stuff has no crappy colouring added, either. Some of the best hard cheeses are imported anyway--such as parmiggiano reggiano from Parma. It will never, ever be made with pasteurized milk because artisans who've followed the same tradition that's been used for over 800 years now will never be allowed to sell a pasteurized milk version with that label. And it would never, ever sell in Italy anyway. Europeans think that cheese made that way is literally "Dead" material, and not fit to eat.

Mouse, you're so right when you sayHomogenization is as bad as pasteurization. There are numerous studies that demonstrate the cause and effect relationship between homogenization in milk and heart disease, including one long term one which took place on subjects who participated for well over 40 years.

Yeah, I'm crusading again (hate that word) but to me it seems absurd that we can't make these kinds of decisions about our own bodies and our own health today, in this world, right now. I'd like to see that change and any time I can advocate for greater access for individuals to exercise their own rights and knowledge, I will. Hell, I'm not saying that the other crap be taken off the market (leave it there for people who don't care about what they're eating, if that's what they want); all I'm saying is that the healthier, real alternatives should be just as available to anyone who wants to have them.

Mouse, that intentional community farm is such a beautiful idea, how lucky you were to be so close to it. Interesting to read that Steiner's philosophy is behind it (it's not accidental our notorious raw milk guy in Toronto was selling his produce at a Waldorf School Organic Farmer's Market). Steiner had some wonderful, humane, and visionary ideas about human potential; I love the idea that the farm you experienced is so focused on healing, on so many levels.
candycane_girl
It's so interesting, I never even thought about raw milk. My dad grew up on a farm and so their milk was straight from the cow, or sometimes water buffalo.

It seems perfectly sensible to me that raw milk would be okay because it's natural and unaltered.


chacha, I agree with you, I think that we should be able to choose healthier foods. Some people love to eat processed junk food and that's fine, but what about other people who actually want to eat healthy?
mouse
aw! (((toronto waldorf school)))

i was raised half anthroposophist, half quaker. uh huh.

/derail
fina
I hate to point out the obvious but the reason governments try to prevent people from consuming raw milk is that occasionally people do get very sick from raw milk and then sue the government for not protecting them from it.

I expect if people were willing to sign some sort of waiver that they will happily accept their fate if their five-year-old has an extreme reaction to it and moreover will pay for the dialysis costs for the rest of the kid's life or whatever then governments would probably ease the restrictions on raw milk but then it wouldn't make it seem very healthy would it?
mouse
i think another thing that goes hand in hand with that is that most raw milk dairies are extremely small, personalized farms. if it were to be nationally distributed, the farms would increase in size, and it would be harder to make sure that every cow in the barn is healthy.
hamburg
interesting topic. i never really thought about raw milk, but my international relations professor once mentioned that raw milk is illegal in the US when we discussed international economic relations and different attitudes towards food safety.
i found out that you can legally buy raw milk at farms in germay. raw milk is not sold in stores. you can get a similar thing called "vorzugsmilch" (the translation is tuberculine-tested milk). it's seems to be raw milk subjected to higher standars of hygiene than real real raw milk. i never saw this in stores, but i'll keep my eyes open now. i'm curious bc i never drank raw milk before.

to make a long story short: i'd be possible to constrain the right to sell raw milk to the farms/producers.
candycane_girl
Well, I personally wouldn't want to try raw milk unless I was right on the farm. I think that even my dad said they would only have milk straight from the cow right when it was fresh. Otherwise, any milk that they drank was boiled to try to get rid of any germs.
chachaheels
Well, if you want to buy it and pasteurize it yourself, you can. Your perogative (though the loss of active and living enzymes will make the milk harder to digest).

Then at least you're not left to deal with the homogenization process and it's denaturing of milk fat (it's the dairy equivalent of trans fats, or plasticized fats after all). The point is you are in a position to decide to buy milk from a local producer, which is in a fresh, natural state. As it stands now, officially, you're absolutely not allowed to do that--you must support the milk conglomerate/food conglomerate multi nationals who adulterate the milk product by insisting it is produced by specific genetically modified cows who are fed feed which is unnatural for cows to eat (grains, meat by products very often, and trans fat laden waste foods from the processed food industries) who are then treated for the many diseases they incur in these unnatural conditions by a variety of anti-biotics and very often a coterie of hormone drugs given to induce a heightened state of milk production, subsequent mastitis, and again, further rounds of anti-biotics given to "treat" the mastitis imposed. And the milk itself can come from thousands of miles away from where you live, which means an awful lot more waste is created getting the milk to you so you can finally purchase it in your grocery store.

Which is why it would be great to at least have the choice.

Also: raw milk is available all over Europe and can be purchased in many grocery stores in Italy (that I know of--other countries I'm not as sure of, but I don't believe it's "farms only" because the technology to sterilize the milk transport system already exists), as well as coin operated raw milk dispensing machines which allow you to use your own sterilized containers. The tubercolosis tested milk means the farm has been inspected and it is confirmed that none of its cows have the disease; otherwise the milk is just good old raw milk--unadulterated, but kept cold.
Beauty & her Bass
Wow, cha-cha! You are quite the milk expert! I would love to be able to drink raw milk. My mom and dad said it tastes amazing...but alas, it is soy for this beauty.

I need to get my booty to the gym. I hate snow, it makes me want to not leave my house. Screw you Ohio!
chachaheels
Not really an expert, Beauty and her Bass; it's just professional knowledge I've had to acquire. We're just not told the truth about so many foods we're sold, nor are we given access to the kinds of foods which are best for us and we're really lied to about the vast majority of foods for the simple sake of greed. I just know that we'd all be much healthier people, with a lot less chronic disease and a lot less obesity, if we all had access to real foods and real information about food instead of the misinformation that's routinely put out about nutrition, food safety, and our health.

That's all.
mouse
after nearly a month of not being able to (home for xmas, then got really sick, then my mom was visiting) and procrastinating it, i finally got my ass to the gym last night. i didn't do much, just a half hour on the treadmill, but it's nice to feel like i'm getting myself back into the habit.
erinjane
I know how you feel, mouse. I've been putting off getting my ass into gear for weeks and weeks. I don't have time to go to the gym so I'm making sure I at least do my 20-minute work out dvd everyday, and if I have time, the 40 minute.

I wish I could play soccer everyday because it's such a great workout and something I love love love.
Beauty & her Bass
chacha: I'm interested. What kinds of other natural food knowledge can you share? I am one of the sheep-like masses that buy what they tell me to buy...I will admit that. But part of the reason I do it is because I don't know what else is out there and I'm scared to try something. So lets start small...healthy natural snacks? Aside from raw fruits and veggies...what do you recommend for grains and such? I'm lost when it comes from a field and not a tree, bush or animal.
chachaheels
Okay, here's a list of things I would consider healthy snacks:

whole eggs, boiled hard or soft
whole fat cheeses and dairy of any kind, especially if it's raw and organic--you'll have to moderate yourself as to portion size if you're counting calories
fresh organic fruit, in moderation--especially starchy fruits such as mango, apples, pears; berries are the best bang for the buck in that they have tons of fibre, tons of nutrients, and very low sugar
dried fruit, also in moderation because of the sugar concentration
fresh nuts of all kinds;
organic, high cocoa content dark chocolate
lacto fermented foods such as olives, pickles, sauerkraut, kvasses and kombuchas
full fat yogurts with live cultures
ripe avocado
fresh veggie soups such as gazpacho eaten as part of a meal, a light snack, or as a healthy drink (puree things more finely)

fresh vegetables such as fresh sugar snap peas (in moderation because of the high sugar and starch content, but very good);
raw organic baby carrots,
celery,
sliced anise or fennel bulbs;
fresh green salads tossed with olive oil and lemon (build the salad around the greens for the best flavour); artichoke hearts packed in vinegar and oil;
canned tuna, smoked or not, packed in water or olive oil; ditto with canned smoked/sliced salmon or fresh smoked salmon with dill and a little bit of sour cream;
popcorn (air popped or popped in lard or cocoanut oil--stay away from the microwave kind as they all use margarine as the fat for popping). Also restrict yourself here--corn's very starchy.

things to avoid: nutrient depleting foods such as all "enriched" foods like breads, juices/drinks, cereals, enriched grain foods of all kinds; avoid GMO foods such as soy products (though fermented organic non gmo soy is fine if eaten in strict moderation--real tofu, miso, tempeh).

eg. Those puffed rice cakes, processed "whole wheat" commercial breads, crackers, anything that's currently being shilled as "diet" foods (Lean Cuisine, Weight Watchers processed foods, South Beach Diet foods, Atkins' diet foods, "energy bars" or "power bars" that are supposed to "replace meals", etc.

Be choosy about fats: avoid canola oil, any and all margarines and hydrogenated fats, rancid fats, commercial vegetable oils, cooking oil "sprays" such as "Pam", products containing MSG/hydrolyzed proteins/"natural flavours", "spices", or "aromas".
Insist on organic extra virgin cold pressed/expeller pressed oil such as extra virgin olive and cocoanut oils, flax seed oils, avocado oil, grapeseed oil, etc; eat real butter and cook with it too.

Wombat posted something about proper portion sizes of the suggested snack foods to carry with you--carry a variety and eat combinations of them for snacks or impromptu meals. Since the foods are nutrient rich you will feel satisfied with them and you will easily lose weight
Beauty & her Bass
Wow. Thanks! I'm taking this list to the local market with me. I always get excited over new foods, especially healthy foods. I love the connection between eating good tasting things and feeling good after. It's amazing.


-I got my butt to the gym again. Whew am I pooped! What a good feeling, knowing I'm going to be able to sleep as soon as I hit my pillow tonight. I tried a new class though...low-impact dance at the Y...not so good.
turbojenn
Chacha, as ever, I am So grateful for your presence and generosity on this board! That is an amazing list, and I want to eat it ALL! smile.gif I, too, am going to print it out, but put it on my fridge to give me new ideas when I get tired of my usual snackies.

Oh, and I have to just share the good news...after 1 week on the South Beach plan, also known as the very popular "don't eat crap" diet, I've lost an amazing 7lbs!!! We've stuck to the first phase faithfully, felt good doing it, and loving all the snackies, and turbomann's down at least 7, judging by the bagginess of his jeans. Pretty cool, that getting started has been this easy - and snacking on many of the things chacha listed below. I don't think I have a whole lot more than that on me to go, but I'm glad for turbomann that its really working, and that its satisfying for him.
mouse
so, i went all the way to the gym only to discover i'd only brought one running shoe with me. DOH!

however, i decided that working out in crap shoes would be better than not working out at all so i did half an hour on the elliptical in my chucks. figured that would be better than running since it's lower impact. did a bunch of weight machines i don't know the names of (working various arm muscles) and sets of crunches balancing on the exercise ball. DAMN those are hard....trying to keep your balance at the same time!

anyway. oh allknowing chacha (and anyone else who has the answer), i have a question: i've always heard it's not good to eat after a certain time of night. however, i go to the gym on my way home from work and by the time i get home from there and make dinner, it's nearly 9pm. i know that's very european, but is it bad digestively? i don't want to eat before i go to the gym as i don't want to work out on a full stomach, and there's no way i'm making myself get up any earlier than i already do (i am NOT a morning person) to workout before work....

ETA: oh, and do you have any suggestions for bread that's okay? i generally get whole wheat pita bread and a loaf of multigrain from trader joe's......i love toast... sad.gif
hamburg
mouse: i recently read "that eating at night is no more likely to promote weight gain than eating during the day". there has been a study carried out by the Oregon Health & Science University: OHSU Scientists Dispel Late-Night Eating/Weight Gain Myth. (but oh, the poor rhesus monkeys mellow.gif )

actually, it's common in germay to have a cooked meal for lunch and only some bread with cheese or sausage in the evening. and there is this saying: "you should have breakfast like an emperor, have lunch like a king and dinner like a beggar" - coresponding to the myth of not eating late.
but in southern european countries like france, spain or italy, a big cooked dinner with several courses is totally common. the south-european cuisine is of course considered to be more healty with all it's good fats (olive oil), more fish, more vegetabls etc. there is less obesity and the people live longer.

so i think, it's really of a question of how much and what, and not of the hour.

it's propably not so good to be digesting when going to bed, but I guess that you - as a NOT-morning person - will not fall a sleep immediately after getting back from the gym and having your dinner. there's also a rule saying that it's not good to eat salat at night, because it takes much longer to digest and you won't feel good lying in bed with a full stomach.
chachaheels
Actually, the southern European diet includes about 40% more fat, and most of that is animal fat, than the North American diet. Same with diets in Northern Europe, too. What we've been told to believe is the healthy, red-meat free, olive oil rich diet was simply Ancel Keys not asking a European what he or she eats everyday, and never bothering to actually watch what people who lived in the parts of Italy he visited ate. It's like he looked at a cafe menu made up only for tourists (which is, exactly, what he did) then declared that the cafe menu's range was "why the mediterranean diet" kept people so heart healthy. Lots and lots of people on both sides of the Atlantic have been dismissing Keys' "mediterranean diet" observations as crazy, especially since "mediterranean peoples" have never hidden the fact that they prefer many of the foods we've been told to avoid, and they would like to have them at least 3 times a day (red meat being one example).

Ancel Keys is the doctor who "researched" high and low cholesterol and came up with the whole Low Fat/Fake fat idea which doctors here have followed since he published his article on "mediterranean diets" back in the 50's. Scientists and just plain everyday people (like the Italians whose diets he claimed to have studied, but never did) have dismissed his theories for more than 40 years, but doctors STILL operate on his erroneous assumptions. His work has made the makers of Lipitor and other dangerous but ineffective drugs fabulously wealthy, all over North America. So you can see why he's still held in such esteem.

But Keys' unquestioned influence has been making an impact in other nations and now many European countries have grocery shelves full of "low fat" foods and processed junk, so of course diets over there are changing to look a lot more like the excessively poor diets people have been duped into adopting here. And so is the disease rate, accordingly.

But there is an equally fast growing food awareness in European countries, especially in the countries Keys erroneously described, diet wise--look into the Slow Food movement, which is well known all over the world. It's all about correcting the misrepresentation of the traditional diets in Europe, and a strong push to encourage people to eat more real, traditional foods which always included the foods we consider dangerous, such as butter, red meat, animal fats of all kinds, real fruits and veggies, and properly processed traditional grains. Slow Food's the inspiration behind all the "put real food in our schools" movements all over Europe and North America, and it's behind all the growing awareness in cuisine (30 years ago, people knew nothing about good food, cuisine wise--just look at a cookbook from that time and you'll see).
I totally agree with hamburg--eating this kind of food, rich as it is, will not lead to you gaining weight.

And though I don't think eating a main meal at night or even later (as hamburg noted many cultures do) doesn't cause weight gain (I think you just use the calories up later, naturally), I do think a lot of people would find it difficult to sleep well unless they planned on being up a while longer into the night.

Oh well, off I go again into a big long digression, sorry if it offends--but I really meant to congratulate everyone for their successes (yay! Turbo and everyone!).

Bread: tough one. There really are still some people who make bread from grains that are ground properly or milled in such a way that the oil in the germ is not allowed to become rancid. Most mills are all about speed and quantity, they can process in such a way that they destroy the nutrient content of the grain thoroughly (which is why flours then have to be "enriched", which is a poor compensation for all that's lost).

Bottom Line: if you can find a very good quality bread which is made with whole grain, fresh water, salt, yeast, a small amount of sugar (to fuel the yeast) and good quality fat, then you're doing the best you can out there. Some people love "Ezekiel" bread, made with sprouted, real grains, but it's not a bread I'd use for toast making! It is a very nutritious bread, though, if you want a good bread. There are others out there which do not go quite as far as the Ezekiel bread but they're still as good--check the labels for ingredients, and look for short lists. Don't think of the bread as a source of lots of nutrients, because it won't be if the flours are enriched. But it is good, and a slice of pretty good quality bread isn't going to kill you.

The other side of the spectrum is the worst kind of bread--pumped full of margarines and shortenings, superrefined flours and sugars, colourants, and flavourings; plus it's "enriched" with maybe 3 or 4 of the close to 100 nutrients removed from grain during processing...so really, eating that bread is just like eating teaspoons of sugar and motor oil. This is the vast majority of bread that's on the market--everything from white bread and buns, to "whole wheat/cracked wheat/multi-grain" commercial breads whose ingredient lists include a multitude of artifical flavours/perfumes, dyes, trans fats, and preservatives. I'd even go as far as to question the actual grains used--GMO? Very possibly.

Well--I think that's quite enough rambling, huh?
maddy29
ok, i have a question about my big butt smile.gif

so, i was doing pretty well in the fall, like oct-dec, and i had lost about 10 pounds. i was shocked and amazed and happy. then i stopped working out and i gained it all back PLUS 5 more pounds. so, now i'm heavier then i've ever been in my entire life. i'm back into workout mode and i know it'll just take a few months to get back to where i was.

my question is-why did i gain it back PLUS more? i know that happens when people are on "diets" and stuff, but why would this happen?
wombat
Wow, congratulations Turbo! Your ability to make good food that is still conforming to a diet is inspiring.

Congratulations to Mouse for working out!

Maddy -- you're scaring me. I was going to the gym regularly for the last couple of months, and now I'm taking a week off to do a project -- the same week that we had a birthday party (cake and ice cream) and people over (munchies including hummus).

When I go back to the gym and get on the scale, I'm sure I'll be sad.

The only theory I've heard about why you gain MORE if you've been dieting and exercising and then you stop is that your body is responding to "stress conditions" by hoarding calories. It's supposed to be in our genes from the caveman days.


maddy29
well, i stopped working out froma bout mid-december to last week, and that was over the holidays so there was more food around, etc. stopping for a week and then getting back on track is fine, i'm sure....i just totally quit working out! gah.

yeah, that's the theory i heard, but i thought that was just if you were restricting calories, which i definitely wasn't doing.....
chachaheels
That question could have any number of answers.

It happens after large weight loss because the body forces its metabolic rate to act as though the body is starving. You start to "need" plenty of sugary foods, and everything you eat is automatically converted into stored fat, in an effort to keep you alive and also in the body's own efforts to repair any damage to physical tissue which occured during the weight loss. Other consequences of prolonged dieting also include hypothyroidism, adrenal insufficiency, suppressed thymus gland activity--basically, systemically, your body shuts things down. So weight comes back at a drastic rate, most of it fat mass, and it comes back in greater quantity because the body's been shocked systemically with the initial weight loss. It's like a desperate effort to keep you alive and try to restore what's been broken down--like the cell wall integrity in the lining of arteries, for example: body has to produce cholesterol to repair the cells, which, if current practices don't stop creating tissue damage, eventually increase and calcify.

In a way, the drastic weight losses people went to their doctors for way back in the 60's and 70's at least forced the body out of the reactionary "starvation" mode (until, of course, the Speed injections stopped). But the trouble with those was that people ended up psychotic as well as physically harmed (and all the same glandular damage took place but just in the opposite direction--things weren't shut down so much as they were forced to work much more quickly). Still, they were very effective and people signed up for speed injections for years on end, just to stay slim and youthful. Everone knows that as along as you're thin, you're considered much, much healthier than people who aren't thin, so the detriments were always ignored or considered minor.

In your case, Maddy, it could be lots of things: greater weight gain now just because of timing (Christmas holidays having just ended); greater stress which ended up affording you even less time for even less activity; variables such as emotional reasons to want to gain weight (of which you may or may not be conscious); use of medications or change in medications, which could include weight gain as a side effect; basic metabolic rate change that comes from age transition--to us all, I might add....any combination of the above, and many others I can't mention because of my own ignorance or inability to recall at the moment. On the other hand, you might have more muscle mass in place now than fat mass, and that always weighs more than just fat. But you'd still be able to fit into smaller clothes, if that were the case.

Is it that much harder to lose now that you're trying to get it to come off again--I mean, harder than before? Sometimes a metabolic change means you have to take a different approach in terms of the types of food you eat to try and reverse some of the physical changes which have taken place.
maddy29
QUOTE
variables such as emotional reasons to want to gain weight (of which you may or may not be conscious);


yessssss. grrrr, this is why i'm so annoyed. i was doing great, being pretty moderate about eating and exercise, felt good, healthy, etc. i lost those 10 pounds over 2-3 months, so i felt that was a healthy way yto lose it. then i realized that i was getting thinner, my pants were feeling lose, and it felt weirdly bad. i knew there was emotional stuff going on but i did'nt know what the deal was, and then i just wasn't making workign out a priority.

i'm trying to focus not on weight loss, but just on getting healthy exercise, and trying to add more good stuff to my diet. but, the end result will be weight loss, which makes me weirdly nervous! i dunno dudes...at least i'm aware of it so next time i start feelign weird, hopefully i can address it then, instead of just gaining the weight back ++ more.
mouse
i've been toying with the idea of getting a breadmaker; maybe i'll just make my own bread smile.gif and i like crunchy toast, not white bread toast....that same farm also had an amazing bakery, too.

i was suprised to find that i hadn't gained any weight over the month i hadn't been working out, especially since it was over the holiday and i was definitely eating a lot of rich food and sugar. but i did notice a big difference in my ability to work the weight machines sad.gif oh well, i'll get back up there in a couple weeks.

if i stop hanging out in this thread and noting my progress, i want someone to PM me and kick my ass into gear, okay? tongue.gif
turbojenn
*duly notes to kick mousie's ass if she disappears* Done!

Mouse, if you go for getting a breadmaker, check craigslist - its usually flooded with them for about $20. I know I got rid of mine there in the wheat-banishment of '01!
chachaheels
maddy29 wrote:

QUOTE
but, the end result will be weight loss, which makes me weirdly nervous! i dunno dudes...at least i'm aware of it so next time i start feelign weird, hopefully i can address it then, instead of just gaining the weight back ++ more.


I've heard this from so many women. There's something we associate with the meaning of being thin--the personal meaning (or what it's meant to us, being thin and therefore "attractive") and the other meanings assigned to that reality (held by the world around us). This is why it's impossible to separate the role the emotions and mental state play in our physical health--they're all of a piece. If we're truly reticent about losing weight because it has connotations for us personally which we can't quite appreciate on a conscious level (but we know exists because of the way we feel in that state) then the weight will not come off.

Just for the record, the first time I was put on a crazy diet and lost a lot of weight I was young enough never to have really experienced "male attention" like I suddenly started to get at that time. Catcalls, idiotic remarks from my dad's friends and his employees (actually, vomitous remarks, if I remember correctly)...everything from, "Hey!! I remember you!! You used to be FAT!!! (voiced in social situations, with plenty of people around to witness...followed by obvious attempts to set me up with their sons at said social situations) to really discomfitting, unwanted remarks from just anyone on the street--ogling, rude remarks about my appearance, catcalls, men following me around as I went shopping or tried to just travel through my neighbourhood--all the stuff we all get. It was bloody terrifying and I remember being on edge for many years about men in general, and just far more insecure about myself after that. I also stopped working in the family business because I started to feel like it was dangerous for me to be in the offices alone when the crew would return. I think the whole experience was uncomfortable, as I ended up feeling really restricted and more than a little vulnerable to people around me, and even family member's opinions and attitudes towards me changed to reinforce that. Not mysteriously, the weight came back on and I started to feel a lot less constrained by the unwarranted attention and loudly voiced opinions. It really felt "unsafe", for quite a while, to be as thin as I was--and I never felt that way when I was the weight I'd been forever.

maddy29
yeah, for me it's weird, because i never used gaining weight as a way to cope, but i've found that since i gained this weight and it's stuck, i get harassed WAY LESS. sad, but true. i want to be healthy, but being a bit chubby is also really nice-men don't bug me as much, women don't seem competitive with me at all, which sometimes they do when i'm thinner. i remember spending a long time several years ago really working on the weight/harassment combo. i realized i was trying to control the way men treated me by controlling my body, and i was trying to NOT do that.

i also think for me, there is something personally dangerous about being thinner and "more attractive." i don't quite trust myself to be thin, if that makes any kind of sense. i think this stuff is all just left over crap that gets stirred up.

i remember about 5 years ago when i was in really great shape, i got bugged SO much by men-this nasty guy followed me out from a subway station for a few blocks and then finally accosted me, ugh. i just need to remember that i was a big ole wimp back then, and now i'm a lot stronger and more powerful, and will yell at people if they bug me. so i gotta remember that i CAN handle it.
wombat
Mmmmm

Word on the hostility/sex thing, but also the new "back off" vibes should help!

I think sometimes we have an image of ourselves, and we have a sneaky way of not wanting it to change.

I actually think I'm skinnier than I really am, because I was skinny growing up. But, what I do to sabotage is that if I notice I'm losing weight and my clothes are getting loose, I think I can AFFORD to indulge!

"I can get away with this little thing"
but, that's self-defeating thinking coming into play, I'm sure.
maddy29
yeah, i also realized that i tend to think of "getting in shape" as a short term thing, so that when i get to a good place, i think "ok, good job! now i'm done." it's stupid really, but i have such short-term thinking re: weight loss, and i'm really trying to get used to the idea that i have to do this for the rest of my life-exercising and stuff.....
jkat
I have a question regarding my own weight loss, and I noticed that there are a lot of very knowledgeable women hanging out in this thread.

I moved to a new city a year and a half ago. I do quite a bit less driving here than in the city I lived in previously, and I also walk more....to my bus stop and around campus mostly. My eating habits have improved, but they were pretty good to begin with (I'm diabetic so I'm pretty anal). Anyhow, I've lost 25 pounds since last January, and my only concerns are 1) I wasn't overweight to begin with 2) I haven't been making a concerted effort to lose weight & 3) at no point in my life have I ever been able to easily lose weight.

I'm not at all complaining, and I'm not dangerously thin by any stretch. What I am asking is if you guys think this is something I should be concerned about, or if it can be chalked up to lifestyle changes (and perhaps a little bit of school stress).
chachaheels
It might depend on your age too--with all the new activity you've been taking on since your move, and the stress of school, you may have dropped some of the weight you put on when you start adolescence. If you've actually grown and thinned out a bit, then that might be your answer. It does sound like you've been much more active on an ongoing basis, and a major life (style) change has happened, so it's not impossible.

If you're Type 1 Diabetes, however, and you've never dieted to lose this weight, and never really carried around the "baby fat" (as it's called) then you should really talk to a doctor to make sure things are all right.
jkat
Thanks for your response chacha! I was hoping I'd get a reply from you.

Yeah, the last time I saw my doctor I had lost about 12-15 pounds, and he didn't even mention it. I will mention it when I see him in a couple of weeks though. I'm not actually that young (26) so I don't think it's the pudge left over from adolescence. I'm always leary of docs, although this one has been pretty good with me, as I've been given a 'shoulder shrug' on several questions regarding weight, diet, and exercise. But this one might just have a better attitude.

smile.gif
maddy29
i used to walk a looot more, even though i didn't really realize it. now that i'm a 9-5 office drone, i do a lot of sitting on the ass. i think the main reason i've gained weight is from not having the daily walks-they really add up to a lot-even when i wasn't actually "working out" i was not overweight, because i would walk 20 min to class, walk 20 min home, then later on do it again, then walk to wherever....so most days i'd total up about 2 hours of walking-just as transportation. that was one good thing about panic attacks-it forced me to walk most places instead of taking the bus...
mouse
hey--for those wondering, it looks like trader joe's whole wheat pita bread is great. it doesn't have any preservatives, and the ingredients are only whole wheat, water, sesame seeds, wheat gluten, yeast, salt and vinegar.
jkat
Maddy-

I really should add up how much I walk during the day. That might put this more into perspective for me. I mean, before I moved I would spend 1-1.5 hours in my car every day, and now it's not even the case that I get into my car every day.

Panic attacks are no fun. sad.gif

Is Trader Joe's a US health food chain?
superscience
maddy--your feelings about losing/gaining weight and male attention really resonated with me. When I was younger I got a lot of attention (both positive and negative) from men. I was thin, young and sorta hot, and was very uncomfortable with it. Also, I'm gay, but didn't come out until a few years ago. So, I think that part of my weight gain was to just sort of disappear from the male gaze. And, I certainly did.

And now, I've been out for a few years, I generally like myself, and it's really time to get healthy and put my body into the shape that I can like and enjoy. And, I wouldn't mind being "hot" again...
mouse
the daily exercise thing is probably doing it, jkat....just walking lots of places. i HATE that i don't have ANY movement as part of my natural routine--i go to the gym, but it's a concerted effort and i don't have anything that is just part of my life. when i was living in boston i used to walk and ride my bike everywhere--i didn't have a car. i weighed almost 20 lbs less than i do now, but i was in college and as such doing college things like drinking 40's every week, and working at a bakery cafe where i got to take home all the leftover muffins at the end of the day.

i rode to and from school and work and twice a week i'd bike from fenway to tufts u in medford, which is about 6 miles, and back. plus i was working at the restaurant, running around and lifting heavy things. i also was part of a kickball team. here, i work 20 miles away from where i live and it's all freeways--there's no way i could bike it. i get to work, spend 9 hours parked in front of my computer, and then drive home. i don't have time for anything else. it sucks.
chachaheels
It does make a huge difference, doesn't it? When I lived in Toronto, I walked a lot more too. Basically I would park my car and it would stay parked except for the occasional drive out of town. I walked and took transit everywhere--and that meant lots of walking up and down long staircases every day, too. I did it because I simply just wanted to peek into all the stores along the way to work--I was always interested in who was showing or selling what and I met some incredible people that way. Weight gain was never a concern for me when I lived that way and it was one of the few times in my life where what I ate was simply never an issue.

But the minute you stop all that activity: you just stop using up energy, and just store what you don't use.

I should go and walk now. It's snowing really lightly today, and that's the big turn off--cold, dreary grey weather.


Trader Joe's is a US chain grocery store that sells a lot of organics and some pretty great house brand foods we just cannot get here in Canada unless you live near a Whole Foods, which can be similar but is far more pricey.

Mouse, Yay! that the pita bread's good. But still, go and get that breadmaker already. You've been wanting one for such a long time!
wombat
Hooray for the tip on the pita bread, mouse!!

Yeah, I live in Boston, and, same here, worked at a bakery, took stuff home and still wasn't fat because of all the walking, climbing and lifting I was doing, having that kind of job and not having a car.

When I first got a computer job in the suburbs and got a car to drive to it, THAT's when I got fat. Also, though, I think turning 30 had something to do with it!

Now I can get a job where I walk and take the train to it (if it's in the downtown boston parking quagmire) , work out, eat well, and that fat just stays on me. OOOLLLDDDDD!!!!! That's what I yam.

Chacaha -- any support for my theory that metabolism slows down as you age? Or is it that I should have started knocking out extra "kiddie foods" and "bar foods" when I was in my late 20s?
erinjane
QUOTE(chachaheels @ Jan 24 2007, 01:04 PM) *

It does make a huge difference, doesn't it? When I lived in Toronto, I walked a lot more too. Basically I would park my car and it would stay parked except for the occasional drive out of town. I walked and took transit everywhere--and that meant lots of walking up and down long staircases every day, too.



This is what I love about Winnipeg...it's small enough that you can bike or bus almost anywhere. It takes me 35 minutes to bike to the University or a 20 minute bus ride. The fact the UofW is right down town is great in the spring and fall. If I need to kill some time I just walk around downtown, go hang out by the river, things like that.

Right now I'm really only driving to my soccer games, which aren't accessable by bus, and to one of my jobs once a week. I'm trying to keep the car usage down for both environmental and health reasons (which I suppose go hand in hand.)
jkat
Yeah, same for me here in Vic. I live really close to DT, the ocean, and it's a short bus ride to school; everything's super-accessible. Plus there are actual bike lanes! It's great!

The weight loss was a shock, b/c all of a sudden *poof* I'm skinny. Freaked out my friends and family back home, hehe. But I think you all are right, and now that I think about it I do get out walking way more than when I lived in Calgary. What a yucky city to walk around, IMO.
chachaheels
Metabolism does indeed slow down as you age, but only incrementally. We're actually meant to do more physically from the 30's to the 60's or so--and metabolism speed adjusts to accomodate for that, so we don't need as much food to keep us going.

Most of us live such sedentary lives now, however, that the accomodation ends up working against us. But there are always other factors, such as cooking too much once you "couple up", not having the time to select and prepare and consume good foods, and the preponderence of too much junky quick foods wherever you turn.

Sigh.

Today I'm having daydreams of putting myself and M.ChaCha on the high protein, practically no food diet so we can drop pounds really fast (but that's more than idiotic, I know). Oh, and yeah, I do wish I could do the Speed diet, just between you and me. Jackie Kennedy seems to have had all the fun, no?
erinjane
My friend and I are hoping to try Bikram yoga next week. This should be interesting because I have zero yoga experience. But the instructor assures me the class is aimed at beginners and it'll be a learning experience for a few classes but I should catch on quickly. Any thoughts on this? I remember people talking about it a few months ago.
jkat
I've never tried Bikram's yoga, but I have a friend who loves it. I have done a lot of Ashtanga (power) yoga though, and I think the premise of Bikram's is quite similar. I believe there is a fixed set of 26 asanas that you work through. Because of this, catching on should be no problem after the first two or three classes. In my experience, yoga instructors are very good at providing variations on poses for beginners, and also encouraging you to not be "competitive" with yourself. Unless you get someone with completely no teaching experience (which you won't), I'm sure they will be very helpful and accommodating.

Just be prepared to be sore in places you never knew existed. Regardless of your current level of fitness. blink.gif

Oh, according to that friend of mine, you might get dizzy the first couple of times from the heat. Feel free to take a break; the instructor should be familiarizing you with 'child's pose' which is basically just kneeling and resting your forehead on your mat.

Have fun! I love yoga! Wish I had more time for it.
wombat
Thanks, chacha, you gave me good things to think about, as usual!!

I like Kundalini yoga - the gym I go to offers Hatha too, which has it's uses.

I'm trying to just squirm powerfully like a dragon a couple times a day. Or be like a cat!!... that's how I think about yoga.
chachaheels
Be like a cat. Mine eats and sleeps and that's about the sum of it (unless you wanna add a daily quota of tempestuous furniture shredding, and vocal demands).

Bikram yoga sounds good just because of the warmth, but I can imagine how some people would find it oppressive.
wombat
Kundalini does include vocalizing!!! (<== sp?>)

I think we're really freaking out the guys in the free weights room (No Lisa Lyons es in sight)

"There go those batty old broads again" they must be thinking.

It is one of my goals in life to be spry, weird, eccentric old lady, full of energy - with complete posession of abilities and faculties, of course.
Beauty & her Bass
wombat: I can't wait to be a spunky old lady! I want to be one of those cute ones that flirts with the old men at the gym while sporting my shinny nylon jogging suit and clean white sneakers. Too bad that's not me at all. I'll probably be betting the 40 year old guys that I can lift more than them and subsequently be removed from my gym for starting an illegal betting pool. That's more my style. ;-)

Anyway, I'm looking for seasonal veggies and fruits that will be good raw this time of year for the Ohio-ish region and other terribly cold areas. Anyone know of some good greens? Everything at the market looks scary and science-lab grown. Nothing tastes good. My taste buds need help.
candycane_girl
Hi everyone! I hope you're all doing well. I know it's a bit late but I was looking back at some of the posts about walking and stuff. My mom grew up in Toronto and she always talks about how she was always in shape she was because she walked everywhere. Meanwhile I've grown up in a city where just about everyone owns a car and most of the population is fat because of it. Our public transit is ridiculously bad and everything is spread out in a weird way so it's not always easy to just walk places. I'm hoping to move to Toronto sometime soon and I plan on walking as much as possible once I'm there.

How's everyone been doing today? I've personally had quite a chocolate filled day but I was good for most of the week! I'm trying not to be too hard on myself cause it just backfires.
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