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anoushh
Gren, I'm biased of course, being a social worker who desperately misses my work as a therapist, but hell yes on the counseling! My stance is always that you are worth the time, effort, and money (and $15 is a great deal! You can get some really great people through university counseling departments and it really irritates me when people dismiss them automatically.)

Btw, we are breaking out the infant ibuprofen tonight before bedtime.
moxiegirl
Motrin is a great reliever of pain in adults...so it should also be with small persons. This is my philosophy.

Gren, when moxette was about 6 mos old, i decided i needed the counseling...for much the same reasons as you. It helped TREMENDOUSLY...even just for the hour away from everything else. Good for you!

So, FJ just posted a pic of little jackaroo over in the OKAYland thread. He's adorable, as one might expect coming from two such attactive parents!

Miss moxette needed the baba again this morning. We've come to a good compromise for the time being. I let her fuss longer in the morning before going in, and if she can't hack back-to-sleep, she gets a small baba with water and cuddles as long as she wants. So far, this week, we've had 3 no-baba days, and 2 baba days. I just don't think at 16 mos, that she's quite ready to be pushed out of baby-hood. Its one of the bottle/breast debates that kind of bugs me the most...if one breastfeeds, and your 20 month old still really needs that little bit in the morning, or at bedtime, and you're both happy with the comfort factor...KEEP IT UP. If you bottle feed, even with water, and your kid is 12 mos 1 day, OFF THE BOTTLE. Like somehow these bottle fed kids don't deserve the cuddles, comfort and nurturing of their parents? Anyway, she's getting close to being ready for no baba, but not quite yet. I think it speaks very much to the over-management of infant care...honestly, I read the books, I've got the general idea...but what kid is textbook, eh?

Anyway, we have a big weekend. Moxieman is doing bedtime all on his own tonight...he's a bit nervous as he hasn't done bed-time since she was REALLY little. I have a wedding to attend, that is old neighboorhood friends, and he really didn't want to go. Fine by me...night out with my sister! Then, tomorrow, we have our first swimming lesson. And, then sunday, the water park! I am looking very much forward to both!
bustygirl
Little Eddie turned two yesterday. I can't believe it's gone so fast. He's officially not a baby anymore. *sniff*
moxiegirl
busty! where have you been?!? Little Eddie is 2?!? Pictures of the party, please. smile.gif
moxiegirl
Morning y'all! We had a great weekend...how was everybustie's? Miss moxette had her first-ever swim class...and wasn't half bad. She did freak out a little at first, gripping onto moxieman and crying "mama, mama" (i was videotaping), but by the end, she was splashing, kicking and playing with toys like a champ! She also has at least 4 new words this weekend (we'll see how integrated they get this week...): Cheese, Hot, NO and MINE. Yep...sounds like a goodly part of the terrible two's is on hand. fun. fun.

And, we had a toof night last night. fussy-cry for 1/2 hour on and off...calls for mama. Poor kid was HOT to the touch when I finally went in, i think from moving around trying to get comfy. At any rate, motrin, water and cuddles calmed and cooled her right down. I'm hanging here at home just to make sure she isn't feverish. I hope the fucker is out and not just pushing.

so, what did you ladies and babes do this weekend?
grenadine
good for moxette! we mean to do some swimming soon. glad you had fun. btw, how did moxieman do on bedtime?

we went to a party at my friend's house last night. here's the bean's commentary:

" the gnome is in the backyard! the gnome might eat me! the gnome won't eat mommy and daddy! oh! the gnome! i want to get the gnome! i want to go see him! i go see him! i want to get him! i stay away from the gnome! the gnome! the gnome might eat an apple! the gnome wants to eat milk! the gnome! the gnome is at the backyard coming! the gnome might come! the gnome will eat apples! the gnome wants to eat a ball! he's eating an apple! he's hungry and eat an apple! i want white apples today! he wants milk! he wants drink milk! oh! the gnome! the gnome is really in the backyard! i want to go see him already! the gnome might catch us in the backyard."

today is the bean's 2nd birthday. we're having my parents over to open presents this afternoon, but otherwise it's a casual day...we're having a small party on wednesday (without presents) for family (people he knows), though i wish we could invite more people as the bean (like a true leo) obviously loves a party (he woke up today saying "i want to go to the party! i want to go back to the party!"

sigh. an extrovert with two introverted parents. wink.gif
moxiegirl
the bean is 2?!? Where did these kidlets grow up from? It amazes me to no end to see moxette looking more and more like a little girl and not a baby girl. Moxieman did fine on bedtime, btw. He got her good and zonkered out beforehand. I had her bottle and PJ,s, etc. all laid out for him. She did fuss and ask for me a little, but was so tired that she just went out.
tart
The Bean's monologue cracks my shit up, Gren - we've got a 2-year-old girl next door who does the same thing... hers are usually about "beedles!"

So Tartlet is on fire tonight - I tried for 2 hours to get him to sleep, and now he's downstairs burning off some steam with Papa. They've obviously got Tartlet's new truck book out, because it's been non-stop "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Wha's DAT? OOOOOOOOOO! WOOOOOW! Wha's DAAAAAAT?" for the last 20 minutes. Too damn cute, even well past his bedtime smile.gif I'm chalking this up to new teeth, new words & a whole mess of new climbing skills that have blossomed all at once this week. Until tonight, we've been on a spectacular run of sleep - going down like a ton of bricks with minimal nursing, settling himself after middle-of-the-night squawks, straight through til nearly 7:30 in the morning - so we're all in pretty good humor at this point.

Yay for turning 2, swimming & new teeth! And super yay for Jackaroo and NO MOLD! I'm still lurking & trying keep up with everyone, so don't think I've dropped off the face of the earth.... wink.gif

Rut roh, George - sounds like we may finally have hit the wall - the yells of glee have turned sharply into shrieks of anger... Time for the Magic Boobies, Take 3...
grenadine
hey, lady! nice to see you in here!

yeah, two is amazing. this morning: "mommy? mommy? i wanna play baseball! i better go up there and get it!" he didn't even want to do his usual climb-into-bed-and-jump-on-me-while-the-mister-sleeps-some-more.

though i warn you all, speaking of bedtimes: for us at least, the twos (or at least, a couple months leading up to the twos -- i think it changed right around 22.5 months) -- also hailed the advent of I Never Want to Go to Bed and Can Now Stay Up Until Nine or Later and Will Stand in My Crib Requesting More Water, More Milk, More Books, The Animals I Threw on the Floor, World Peace, Superpowers, and Lots of Other Things forever, until you want to tear your hair out. it doesn't help that the light switch is reachable from his crib.

in related news, we're trying to get him a bed, both because we think he's ready and because the crib is going to #2, and i had a minor meltdown yesterday because the one we want is out of stock at ikea with no arrival date in sight and i really want to start making the transition now so it doesn't turn into "I was ousted from my comfy crib by that damn baby" and, well, where else can you get a bed for $50? argh!

(unrelated peeve: we got an octopus for him at ikea. it has five legs. wtf?? i realise i should shut up now, because there is NO MOLD, but still. five? that's a lot of amputations.)

of course, when he gets a bed he'll be able to get out himself (he's clearly capable of it with the crib but hasn't actually bothered yet, except before my eyes to test me), which will put a whole new spin on the "you're going to bed" power struggle. i'm actually hoping (against hope) it will make it better, since at least he'll have some autonomy, but maybe i'll just find him passed out on the bathroom floor, or something.

i'm really grateful that i have 10+ years of experience babysitting toddlers and outsmarting them with my wiles...i was always the babysitter who could magically get the kid to eat his veggies, take a bath, go to bed...but now that i'm the parent i see why it's so much harder: i'm that much more desperate, for one thing.

i'm being a bad mama and not going to the 2 year appointment checkup today, i think. i really want to go, actually, but i have until tomorrow night to grade and give feedback on 40 research paper rough drafts, most of which need some severe intervention, so i think i'm sending the mister.

ETA: the bean just came downstairs from playing baseball and announced,
"get a gnome for our yard?"
me: "why do we need to get a gnome?"
bean: "okay!"

yup. he's a leo. of course we're getting a gnome. how could we not get a gnome?
sigh.
karcher

hi
hats off to all you mommas

i have a 7 wk old whos asleep on me chest right now as i'm slowly typing one-handed

the sleep thing. since i've started to not follow the maternal and child health nurse's advice on how to put her to sleep, we're both feeling a lot better. my child does not function according to a formular! i'm liking the attachment theory and i'm wondering if the ideal of independence in western societies is overrated - shes only a baby for christs sake. on the other hand i do miss my own independence. my gut feeling says she'll be independent the day shes ready - and then i'll miss her running to mummy - but theres also a tiny bit of worry that shes gonna get too attached to me. family -who we're living with- is not particularly supportive emotionally. hmrph.

i have problem getting her to sleep peacefully, apart from when shes attached to my nipple. its either that or getting tired from crying - and i mean big cry - coz shes not getting a nipple.

any advice?
tart
Hi, karcher! Ah, how well I do remember the early days, with Tartlet curled up like a little bean on my chest... How often are you nursing? We had huge crying jags early on, until I finally realized that he was a horribly inefficient nurser & that 10 minutes on the boob wasn't nearly enough to fill his tummy. Have you tried a soft sling or a carrier? She may just miss your warmth - consider the enormous shock of going from a warm, quiet bath with nonstop food supply to... well, life outside. I'd be a bit pissy too, I think wink.gif I highly recommend Dr Sears' The Baby Book to get you through the first year - it's been invaluable for us.

Unfortunately, if you're going down the AP path, you'd best brace yourself. Modern Western parenting as a whole doesn't leave much room for extended nursing/co-sleeping/babywearing, especially from our folks' generation. I was fortunate in many ways to be away from family for Tartlet's first year - we got to work out the rocky bits without a lot of conflicting advice, and now Tartlet's obviously a happy, healthy boy, no one gives me any flack for our crunchy granola parenting choices. We've got a wide variety of parenting styles here on the Mama board, but we all try really hard to support, not judge, so consider this a safe space to recharge...

(Update: finally got the Dervish to sleep at 10:30 last night - he woke up perfectly chipper but had a really horrifically foul poop this morning, so I think he was more uncomfortable than contrary last night... but I take your warnings to heart, Gren, and am constructing an elaborate and therefore utterly useless plan of attack for when we get to that stage.)

And well, yeah, of course you're getting a gnome! I mean really, who doesn't get a gnome? wink.gif
grenadine
but a GNOME! it's so déclassé! the next thing you know we'll have flamingos on the front lawn...

karcher, welcome! look around where you live for some baby massage classes/new parent groups with an AP focus/crunchy granola-type stores (look for stores that sell cloth diapers, gripe water, organic cotton onesies, etc.) - these can be great resources for groups, events, support, etc. when the baby is that young, i strongly recommend wearing her, attached to the boob if necessary. we had our fussiest times from about 5-12 weeks, and i wish i'd just nursed him 24/7. i had some success with wearing him in a snugli - never got the hang of a sling - especially during the fussy late afternoon time, but i was trying WAY too hard to nurse on a schedule; wish i'd just caved for a while and nursed whenever he made a peep. that said, if she manages to fall asleep on her own, notice everything about the circumstances so you can encourage that in the future! ours seemed to set an early pattern of going to sleep on his own at 8 and sleeping for four hours. we focused on being home for/encouraging that and he went to bed each night like a dream, until recently.

and tart is right that there will be some criticism, but there will also be a lot of support if you know where to look. so go out and find it! i don't know what your community is like, but where i live (on the left coast) there are scads of slings, hypnobirthing, AP groups, etc.

and your baby WILL assert her independence. we're joining a playgroup and the first day we were there the bean went into this little play house and told me to go away! (a first) so you see, it didn't take long...he wasn't even two and he'd already figured out that some things are more fun without mama right there.
moxiegirl
karcher! Welcome! I'm not an attachment parenter by any stretch, but we did read and live by dr. brazelton's "Touchpoints", which more or less says that if you listen to and pay attention to what each child needs (in that 2 siblings may have very different needs that don't always jive with "your" philosophy), you'll know what to do to make them feel loved, which leads to comfort, which leads to independence. Moxette never was a particularly attachment-driven child...she slept (except for naps here and there) in her crib much better than with us, and HATED slings of all sorts. If you know your wee-wee one needs a boob right now, give it to her. She's still way to little to figure out any mechanism of self soothing. Around 4-5 months, she will be neurologically and biologically ready to start learning self-soothing...which may for months still be very Dependant on you and the boob. We formula fed, moxette is 16 months old, and still really needs the baba at bedtime to relax down enough to sleep.

Speaking of sleep...while we are very reliant on our routine at bedtime...she's started "trying" to extend it. "One more book"..."one more bath toy"... "Are you tired, baby?" "SHAKES HEAD" and DANCES...just to prove her point.

Gren...put a gate on the door. That way, he won't be able to leave his room at night, and he'll figure out how to snooze himself...my girlfriend once found her son sleeping on TOP of his toychest, truck in arm, blankie in other arm!

grenadine
yeah, mox, i'm going to put a gate somewhere...just haven't decided where. he did pee in his potty without us even in the room the other day (AND went and dumped it himself!), so i'm considering putting the gate so that he can access his room, our room, and the bathroom, as opposed to just his room, but we'll see. then there's the problem that #2 will be in the same room (we're planning on having her in a bassinet in our room until she's sleeping decent stretches, by which i mean over five hours, so probably at least a few months, but after that they're sharing) and access, etc.

oh, the bedtime plea-bargaining! the bean knows all the tricks now, grr. "another book. i want to read a book!" (can he TELL how hard it is for me to say NO YOU CAN'T READ A BOOK BECAUSE I LOVE ILLITERACY?)
moxiegirl
exactly! How much "no, we aren't reading anymore" can I really do? I usually end up telling her that daddy has another book in the bath (which is true), and she most of the time buys it. Then, I read extra to her in the morning before school.
anoushh
So much to say, so little time.

However, just had to share this:

We've (well, mostly me) have been doing sign language with Notbob. Today I saw him make his first sign! Grandpa was eating and I asked him to sign "eat" which he did, and the young man clearly mimicked him.

He may not know what it means yet, but he was very deliberate about it!

Also, he is pulling himself to a standing position at every opportunity! He's only been crawling for about 2 weeks.
anoushh
Oh, and karcher--forget about the nurse. I don't know exactly what she's telling you, but it sounds to me like you are right where I was at that time.

I spent WAY too much energy worrying about him being "independent"--more as a result of my own fears and resentments of being so depended upon than outside pressure, but there was some of that too--and it was a huge waste of time and energy (neither of which a new mom has to spare.)

It's strange how powerful that pressure was. I'm a social worker by training and I have done a lot of work with people who have disturbed attachment patterns as a result of neglect, trauma, etc. I know what is healthy and what isn't. But when it was me in that situation my rational brain took a hike and I was all irrational worry and anxiety.

It's understandable, but if I were to do it again, the main thing I would do differently about any of my choices in those early days is to stop worrying so damn much. Easy to say now, I know, but wow, it would have made things easier. I did try, but having never been through the experience before it was harder to have faith things would be ok. At 9 months I have a bit more faith, both in my baby and in myself.

And do follow the advice about getting a doctor and doctor's office more in keeping with your values and beliefs. In fact, I need to follow my own advice on that one...

We are also living with family, so you have my sympathies.

There is also a Dr. Sears website, which is very helpful (in spite of annoying ads.)

Also, notbob LOOOVES his pacifier. I wasn't going to have one for some reason I can't remember, but he made it clear he had other ideas. Does your baby have one?
grenadine
"I want a gnome with a hat on! A dirty gnome with a hat on! I want to get a gnome and kiss it!"
anoushh
Ok, now I have to get a gnome.

Baby Einstein videos actually inhibit learning.

grenadine
well, if the gnome is _dirty_...and doles out kisses...and your husband works a lot... wink.gif

baby einstein videos inhibit sanity, IMHO. i still have the tinkly music from one stuck in my head, over a year later. but the bean never cared about them either. i *have* started letting him watch tv a bit, though...baseball games! he loves baseball, and i was thinking it over, and in terms of the pace and style of presentation it's far preferable to, say, nouveau sesame street (cf. our discussion of lo these many months back).

anoushh, maybe notbob will be one of those children who goes from crawling to walking in under a month. on the other hand...maybe you want him to sit still for a change...

oh, and we're now getting gnomes for everyone - my parents, the bean's grandparents, etc. gnomes all 'round!

ETA: while searching for an article about the baby einstein critique (because i haven't the patience or time to listen to an audio file), i found this site: http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/
--very interesting stuff.
anoushh
Don't get me started on the working too much subject. We need to have a serious talk.

Not to mention that gnome comment made me both laugh and yet feel a little bit queasy....

I just took a quick glance at that link, grenadine, but it looks very interesting. Commercials/radio on school buses? That is seriously fucked up. What's wrong with a bit of quiet. (the UK was worse in this respect, but it's no picnic here, either.)

Yeah, I'd like the young man to be still for, oh, maybe a minute or two even once in a while, but he has other ideas.

He'll be walking soon. He's SO happy he can make himself stand up. He's SO driven to stand up it's amazing.
moxiegirl
commercials on buses? Argh...another great argument for living in walking distance to each school my kid(s?) will attend. Oh, and my defense months ago was aparently of the OLD Sesame...even the late 90's version. We recently saw the "new" sesame, and I was non-pulsed, to say the least. Mostly, we looked it over and decided that they've shifted their target audience a bit older than toddlers...the advent of Blue's Clues and the Backyardigans, etc....which blow Sesame out of the water in terms of retention...

Moxette is enthralled by tv. We have a house rule...no more than 1/2 hour OR 1 full program (the Baby Einstein DVD's are like 35 minutes) a day. Otherwise, she gets demanding. And, no TV within an hour of bedtime, period. Even then, we don't watch tv every day, as during the summer, we're outside from the time we get home until dinner, then again until bedtime. I do admit to bending the rule on Sunday morning, when we all sit together, moxieman and i reading the paper, and moxette watches maybe a bit more tv than 1/2 hour. But, she watches, goes to play, comes back, etc. It all goes to my general sensibility that with the exception of very few things (heroin...unsafe sex...seafood [allergy]), I'd like to teach her that moderation and self control are the ticket.

Ah, the wee lassie is SICK right now. Poor thing is running a nasty fever (101-103 variable) for a day and a half now, with a sore throat, runny nose, etc. We took her to the doc yesterday, and he even did a strep test. Negative. I almost would have felt better if it were positive...then I could DO something about it besides water, motrin and cuddles. When the motrin kicks in, she's almost normal temperment, though. So, that's somethin. Half her daycare class is out sick this week.
lapis
Hi ladies,
I have popped in before and believe I will be writing quite a bit come November, when I (hopefully) become a mom. Anyway, I have question. Most of my live friends don't have kids and I am trying to figure out what I might ask for at a baby shower. Do you have any suggestions for figuring out what to ask for or any particular things that worked for you? Also, are there any stores or websites with more eco-friendly stuff that have decent prices and registries? I have a feeling lots of you have done your research. Sorry for such broad questions--jsut trying to figure it all out. Any suggestions would help!
moxiegirl
lapis...in detroit, there is a company called treecitydiapers that is all natural, etc.

In terms of the "big stores", I know Target has a "jump start" your registry option that I found helpful.

The most used things: crib, carseat/stroller; the most used "not-big" things: bottles (we bottle fed), towels, bath goodies, swing/bouncy/exersaucer (age dependant)
anoushh
Not only is notbob pulling himself up at every opportunity, but he's started furniture walking.

It's almost scary.
anoushh
Not only is notbob pulling himself up at every opportunity, but he's started furniture walking.

It's almost scary.
karcher

thanx everyone! i feel much better already. i'm much more positive and confident in how i deal with the little one now. looks like i actually do have a mother's instincts - they just got pushed aside by a lot of well-intended advice.

(this one-hand-typing thing has to improve: this time i'm typing with bub attached to a boob)

i think for me the attachment style parenting is not so much a choice, its more that a lot of its theories makes sense to me. i cant stand letting my baby cry like mad, or trick her or treat her inconsistently. and we are still refusing to use a dummy, although i have thought about it a few times. she usually has a fussy time, about an hr to an hr and half after a feed, when she wants to suckle to sleep. i generally try to rock her in a carrier or sling, but if we cant manage then i let her have her way. like now. although i'm just starting to think now, maybe she just never feeds 'enough' each meal..?

today at the parents group i had a chat with a mum. she said she has problems settling her boy, and then asked if we were sleeping okay. i said yeah we're getting much better in a happy and relieved tone, to which, with raised eyebrows, she immediately asked for my method. i said well we havent sussed out the settling bit either, but the little one sleeps with me at night. the response was an 'oh' face, and she immediately turned to change her boy. that made me feel really good!!

thanx again and i'll be back with more questions i'm sure

xxooo
anoushh
Oops, double post before. Sorry.

Karcher, why are you "refusing" to use a dummy? Like I said, I had some firm idea that I wasn't going to use one but for the life of me now I can't recall why. We went to the dummy in a fairly traumatic time when notbob wasn't getting enough food (I was making no milk) and it made him feel better which meant a lot at that time. Then when I saw how much it comforted him I couldn't see taking it away or understandrecall my previous objections.

Not all kids like them, of course. I'm just curious about your thinking (in part b/c of what I'd once decided>)

Anyway, sounds like things are going really well for you. She's tiny still--her behavior sounds perfectly normal to me. It can't be easy making the transition out into the world as Tart said.
grenadine
well.
i just spent an hour getting the bean down for his nap.
in his new child-size bed.
out of which he can climb.

it was an epic battle. i'm starting to re-think this whole room-sharing thing. except that we only have the one room, so unless we want #2 in the room with us...
*sigh*

p.s. we thought we would cosleep for a while with the bean, but he didn't care at all, so we ended up moving him to a crib at one month old. the only difference was that i got better sleep not worrying that one of us would crush or suffocate him. so you see, each baby's different. people just need to remember that.
and i was originally anti-paci, then tried to encourage it when he was really colicky (i would have encouraged anything that wasn't actively harmful, so colicky was he for that few months), but he never wanted one. now i'm glad as i don't have to wean him off. we'll see what #2 does.
anoushh
That is key--each baby is so different.

Oh dear on the bed. I imagine we'll have that too. Why wouldn't we since pretty much every day since he was born has involved some epic battle over sleep. Some days worse, some better, but always a battle. I try not to go into it with battle mindset, but he doesn't seem to agree.

I am so tired I'm barely functioning. And I'm not sure why. I'm going to go home and see what notbob is doing. Bouncing, I imagine. As usual.

I hate august. At least it's not 100 degrees lately.

lapis
Thanks Moxie!!! I love the website.
grenadine
on the plus side, he seems to like his bed and to have no desire to go back to the crib, which is five feet away. on the minus side, 1.5 hours of active attempting to get him to go down tonight (no doubt complicated by the nap from 2:20-4:30, way later than usual), and i'm still not sure he's actually going to sleep. seemed like it, when i was last in there thirty seconds ago.

i miss the crib. we could just firmly tell him it was bedtime and leave him in it.
crap. awake.
moxiegirl
gren, our BFFs are going through the same thing with their VERY busy 18 month old, who suddenly last week rejected his crib like it was the RACK or something. It took him 3 or 4 nights to really accept that the bed was bed and go back to his usual hijinks at bedtime. This is opposed to his "transition" hijinks, which included CLIMBING the changing table! Needless to say, mr.man is now getting his diapers changed on the floor! I'm thanking my lucky stars that moxette seems perfectly content in her crib, and has shown no signs of climbing out.

We had a wicked night last night. Miss thing's infection seems to be progressing, in that all the stuff that was in her head is now draining from every orifice...watery eyes, RUNNY nose, drool...pleasant. At any rate, she's feeling better, esp with Triaminic, which seems to help her nose, at least. Which is why at 10pm, when she started SCREAMING, we got very nervous for the inevitable ear infection. After an hour of cuddles and a bottle, she finally went back to sleep comfortably, and no fever this morning...so we're going with TOOTH...bitchy, god damed tooth. I'll have to check her later to see if the fucker came out.
karcher

i don't know, the dummy seems to represent something evil to me. just the dependence thing, and the plasticky-ness. i mean, i had it when i was little too, and i grew up ok, so it can't be that horrible when it comes to weaning it. i am seriously considering it now, we might have a trial to see what little missy thinks. that's the most important bit hey.

co-sleeping is a big no-no according to the child health nurse we go to, and it seems like everyone in the parents group sees her or someone with a similar view, so i look like a bad naughty parent i guess. i thought you'd have to be more open-minded and sensitive to how people might want to bring up their kids when you're in a profession like this today.

i'm looking at all your posts about cot-to-bed and teething with a kind of longing, like it's going to be eternity before missy is reaching that stage. i do enjoy the now though. in fact, she's so cute we're thinking about #2 already... :P daddy is starting to get a bit frustrated/jealous of not getting mum though.

anoushh
The way I look at it is that we didn't evolve as creatures sleeping in our own neat little cribs in separate rooms from our parents. We evolved sleeping together, and in many places it's still done this way routinely. (And a hell of a lot more people do it than admit it, I think.) This alone in another room thing is very, very recent.

I hate that kind of rigidity. I wouldn't tell someone they MUST co-sleep, so why do people feel entitled to tell me I can't or shouldn't. You have to take into account each baby's different needs, temperament, etc, as well as those of the parents.
Just make sure everyone is safe and you'll be fine. A miserable, sleep deprived mom isn't good for baby either.

If the baby gets what it needs when it's young it will be able to be secure enough to be independent when it's older.

Karcher, where are you? (I seem to recall Germany, but I might be wrong.)

As for the paci, I figure he's got a strong innate need to suck. It comforts him. I don't use it as a substitute for other kinds of comforting, but as an added tool. He's such a high energy kid in the first place that I need all the help I can get. I don't ever remember having one, though I'm sure I did, but it was never a big deal to me. And babies are dependent--they depend on us as adults for everything. To me a pacifier isn't going to make any difference in that.
(And I still can't remember why I was against them. Probably something about it being a crutch. Yeah, whatever.)

Mox, I meant to comment on your post a few days back about the "no bottle after 12 months" tyranny. I'm sure I've heard it being something about the sugars in formula vs. breast milk, but if it's water why should it matter? I had similar thoughts to yours a few days before you posted that when I went to the ped for notbob's 9 month visit and he said something about weaning him off the bottle at 12 months. Yeah, right. If he's ready, I will. If he's not, what's the rush?

Work had a family night at a local pool. We took notbob and we were going to get in the water, but it was unseasonably cool (7:30 pm on an August night was too cool--can you imagine? I prefer this weather, actually, but it was way too cold for outdoor swimming for a little guy, esp. as we forgot to bring warm enough clothes for after for him--again, it's August, who knew?)

He took a look around and decided this was a fun place to bounce, and so he did for about an hour, as well as chatted away. He seemed to really enjoy himself. Then we went home and he went right to sleep with no fighting and no fuss. It was a freaking miracle.
moxiegirl
I hate teeth. The fucker is just under the surface, but not in yet. Just owie enough to make for a very.crabby.kidlet. And one who suddenly thinks that her way IS the way, come hell or high water. Guess what, missy? That ain't the way the world works. Certainly, you don't get to eat chocholate before dinner, or even when i'm lienent b/c we're at gramma's house, in the family room. Argh. Clearly, miss thing needs the routine-ness of house rules, and after 2 weeks of being slip-shoody on them (lots of time at grammas [both]), then being sick, she's really pushing our limits. Its crack down time at moxieland.

And, I noticed something this morning that kind of freaked me out. Miss moxette has always been a tall baby. Lately, we've been counting our lucky stars that she hasn't shown any interest in sleeping in anything other than her crib...no climbing, nothing like that. Well today, I went in to kiss her goodbye, and she was stretched out full...head just about 2 inches from the top of the crib, and feet...less than 6 inches from the bottom! Gah! We may have to do a bed before long at this rate. sad.gif But, a bed will help tremendously with the no bottle at bedtime, i've decided. That's my new strategy...get her in a "big girl" bed, then do away with the bottles. That way, we can have cuddles as long as she needs, etc.
tart
I don't think it was necessarily your break in routine, Mox - Tartlet's been pulling the same testing-of-wills bullcrap all weekend. Must be the new moon. Or the meteor shower... Can't wait to see how the week goes - it's DCP vacation again, thus the Carnival of Grandparents begins...

We picked up a twin air mattress at Target ($10 - woo!) & will be putting it in a corner of Tartlet's room for pre-bed storytime & (hopefully) weekend nap alternative location. He was very clingy, and would not be put down for a nap at all this weekend, but he'd sleep like a rock draped over me... not so comfortable in the glider-rocker anymore. So I'm thinking we'll start doing naptime in the cuddle corner & see if the lack of transfer from shoulder to crib helps him stay asleep. I figure it'll help with the big bed switch, as well, as we're looking at not much more head-to-toe clearance than you guys are, Mox blink.gif So much for the convertible crib...

So I think - think - we may have a lovey. Not holding my breath, but suddenly the weird blue dog thingy from IKEA is being carried around a lot, and it's definitely getting moved around in the crib overnight...

Yikes, 8:45 already...
moxiegirl
tart- that's a GREAT idea! moxette is just about too big for the pack and play at gramma's now, and they were debating on what to do. Air matress. I think her overnights at gramma's house may be the first tests, but we'll see. She sleeps in a cot at daycare, so I KNOW she can do it. I just don't want to deal with non-confined baby any sooner than i have to.

moxette has lovies for different purposes (mostly, b/c we really don't want ehr bedtime friends at the dinner table getting ketchuped). So, BUNNY and BLANKIE are for bedtime and serious comfort needs, and "BA" (little white sheep) is for everyplace else. The kid loves stuffed animals, though...she's liable to be carrying 3 or 4 at any given time. Tea parties are SO in my future. She gave Bunny a bottle and cuddles yesterday! hehe.
shinyx3
ok, i can officially start posting in this thread and not just lurking. lilshiny was born last wed and all is going well. (i am typing with one hand while he eats.) he is truely perfect and i am still euphoric and sappy. i had a check up with my midwife yesterday and that was the first outing. it went well but i have to laugh at myself about how totally nervous i was to have people that i do not know around him. not that anybody tried to touch him or anything (very likely because of the look on my face that said 'i will break off your hand if you come any closer'. funny how animal we are sometimes) anyway, he is gaining his weight back and i am on the mend so the appt went well.

shinyboy is due to come home today (has been at grampa's for a few nights) and i a looking forward to having my nuclear family all together. not that i think routines come all that easily with a new edition but i want to start.

i am not getting much sleep at one time but am really suprised at how good i feel. (hope that lasts a long time) since i am breatfeeding it is not like mr can get up with him in the night. i did just get an avant isis breast pump but am nursing so often that i haven't really tried it out. in the future i can see how it will be convenient so hubby can feed sometimes.

i have a bit of an odd question for you momma's does anyone have augmented breasts or know of anyone who does that breast fed? although things seem to be working well for me and lil, i am having a hardtime knowing when i am empty as my breasts do not get soft. any advice on this would be lovely. also, i am curious, how long till you start to feel normal again? shinyboy is 10 years old so although i have done this before i was pretty young and dumb and besides it was a long time ago and i really don't remember.

anyway, we are done nursing and i have about a week and a half worth of reading to do on this thread so i can catch up. i am so glad to finally be in here officialy with my lilshiny!
moxiegirl
hey lassies...another mattel recall Look it up on the CPSC website...
grenadine
hey, strangers!

congratulations and welcome to shiny! i'm ignorant about nursing with augmented breasts, but maybe la leche would know something?

we've been madly busy this week. got the official invite to join the coop daycare/playgroup (bean goes 3x per week, 9-1, and one of us goes one time per week with him; it's entirely parent-staffed), so i've been doing my training every morning from 8:30-1:30 while the mr. works on house projects and we frantically try to find an affordable landscaper to regrade our hill so we don't get mold again this winter. it's good for the bean to be around other kids, though, and he's already talking tons about them (this morning: "josefina might come see the gnome!"), etc.

napping has gotten better; most days he passes out in the car on the way home, today (our day off this week) i got him down in about 20 minutes of reading, etc. (he actually rejected one book, asked for goodnight moon, then asked for a moon song, and was asleep in 2 minutes). yesterday he woke up unusually late at 6:50, and we were hoping that it was the beginning of a new trend occasioned by the coop, but today it was back to 6:15 (despite going to sleep circa 9:30; he's like me; he just doesn't like to go to bed), so maybe not.

but the transition to the new big-kid bed continues to be smooth; he has slept well and deep and happily in it every night since he started last thursday. his crib is still in there, filled with stuffed animals and waiting for #2 to be ready.

he's been asleep for an hour now, during which i've been frantically cleaning and putting off looking at my students' papers, so i'm going to try to put my feet up and do that for a sec...
shinyx3
lilshiny had his one week check today and he is already up to birth weight plus and oz. so i guess i do not have to worry about breast feeding as he is obviously getting enough to eat. he is eating pretty often and i am running very low on sleep but we are doing well none the less. i was lucky enough to get a little nap today and that makes a big difference in how functional i feel.

we took shinyboy and lilshiny to the mr.'s lab today for a little show and tell after the appt and it is funny how enen though i know all the people there and even really like them i was pretty nervous.

lilshiny goes in for his circumcision in a week and a half and honestly, i am a little nervous about that too. i truely do not remember being so fretful with shinyboy. i guess 10 years makes a big difference.
grenadine
great that lil is gaining, shiny! i'm sure if he seems happy and growing you don't need to worry about not feeling "empty," though i can see how that would be weird.
i didn't want people around the bean for at least a couple of weeks after he was born. he seemed so absorbed with sleeping, etc. smile.gif

i don't envy you about circumcision! i went to my friend's son's circumcision and she was in tears, sitting outside on the stoop (she couldn't watch) sobbing, "they're hurting my baby!" and, truthfully, i couldn't say anything, because they were, so i just held her. it must be really hard to go through that, but i guess if you truly believe that circumcision is important, then you make the decision that it's worth it and you can feel secure about that. i would definitely be sure to choose a really trustworthy practitioner, though.

in other news, this is kind of scary but probably very pertinent -- a NYT article on the dangers of cough/cold meds for infants and very young children: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/16/health/1...xprod=permalink
--i learned something new about those decongestants i was considering giving him a couple of weeks ago...the main thing being that the may not even work at all!
shinyx3
thanks for the article! it seems somewhat odd to me that the drug companies will disregaurd the statistics and continue to argue that their drug is safe just so they can sell and increase profits when there are children at risk. pretty scary when you think about it. very much like the tobacco companies saying that smoking doesn't cause cancer.
moxiegirl
the thing with that article is that WAAAYYY down into it, is a line about people whose kids have gotten sick using the multiple-symptom versions PLUS regular decongestants, or exceeding the dosage. That's why its important to consult the pediatrician. We use plain old triaminic, and it works pretty much as well as can be expected...helps dry up a runny nose so she can breath better. Nothing cures a cold but time. The NYT is famous for yellow-style journalism when it comes to mother-child relations. Remember the article a few months back about the "ad campaign" related to breast vs. bottle feeding? You know, the article that in writing "about" an inflammatory campaign that had actually been scrapped by the gov't agency that put it out, actually more or less condemmed any woman who bottle fed her child to obesity, stupidity, morbidity in temperament, diabetes by age 10 and death at a young age? All I'm saying is that when one reads such articles in the NYT, one should discuss with their own learned professional, and also look for the recommendation itself.
anoushh
Shiny, I promise I'm not trying to start anything and I won't try to talk you out of it but if you are so nervous about it why circumcise?

I'm curious why people make these choices is all.

Mox, yes, that's true, but there have also been a few cases of bad reactions when the meds are used properly.

Robert Sapolsky in his book "The Trouble with Testosterone" (a book of essays) has a fascinating article about why using most cold symptom meds might be counterproductive. He won a MacArthur foundation grant several years ago and I think he well deserved it.
moxiegirl
Oh, I don't discount the FDA warning at all, its the inflammatory nature of the NYT "health" writers that bugs me. Anybody, anytime can have an adverse reaction to a medication, really.

My point is that as a thoughtful parent, I have to balance the comfort and need for my own child. When she was less than 6 mos old with colds, we took her over and over to the pediatrician, who gave us a Rx to help the runny nose. Between 6 mos-1 year, we called and he advised us to use triaminic, and she's never had any bad reaction to it. I think the point of the warning is to get parents who rely6 on advertising or bottle directions to be more in touch with their medical providers.

I just have a hard time accepting the "1 in X" have had bad reactions, so its BAD for everyone argument. About anything.

Man, typhoid mary gave me her fever from last week, and its all UP and DOWN. Feh. And, i don't know if its breaking for real, or b/c of the motrin i took and gallons of water i;m drinking. Feh.
anoushh
Yeah, but you are a thoughtful parent. Frankly, a hell of a lot of people aren't. And how many people still don't realize exactly what you said about any medication?

I do understand your point about inflammatory writing, though. It doesn't help anything.

Oh, and just because it might make the cold last a few days longer than it might doesn't mean I might not decide to go for comfort measures at the time of my--or my baby's--worst symptoms. Sapolsky doesn't say you should or shouldn't use meds--he's just writing about the science of it.


Notbob is getting ready to go to daycare in a couple of weeks. I'm nervous, but it's far better for him than leaving him with my dad when my mom goes away for a month (which she is going to do.) That was the plan, but there's just no way.
And I think once he gets used to it he may well like it--he's going to be 10 months old by then, so he may well enjoy the interaction with other kids (it's birth to 2 years old). It's a co-op at my work place, so it's very reasonably priced. And if there's any problem I can go right over.

The mister is so keen to give notbob big people food that for lunch (while I was at work) he gave him bread (with all kinds of seeds in it, and honey--is cooked honey ok or not?), hummus, raw tomatoes, and who knows what else. This was after a breakfast of weetabix, but at least that was with formula. Oh, almost forgot the apple juice (watered down at least, but still) and a sip of chai, with milk but no sugar.

How many times do I have to say "no milk yet?" Not to mention no raw tomato, no seeds or nuts, no egg white, no juice (what's wrong with water?) and only one new food at a time, please.

So last night we were having a rough time at bedtime. (We=notbob and me). He's often hard to get down but after a while I started to think something else was wrong, and though I couldn't put my finger on it wondered if his stomach hurt.

Well, I got the answer when, in the course of standing up on my lap, he projectile vomited all over me, (and I'd just showered), the chair, and himself. Of course he cried then too. It must have hurt some as it was pretty violent and it ALL came out in one go.

Eventually got him down after that, and after one stonking great (and extra stinky) poo this morning he seems a new boy.

But honestly, why is it so hard to just feed him what we've been feeding him? He's a baby--he doesn't need, want, nor can he handle a lot of variety.

Btw, he hates peas. I even added a potato to the puree and still no go. I think it tastes pretty darn good. I'm trying to do my own baby food and the peas are just not a hit. (Of course peas in a jar were fine.) But the carrots are ok, especially if you mix them with some banana.

Good news about the big kid bed and poo on germs. Yep, that's the level of my so called "intelligent" discourse today. Sorry.


grenadine
anoushh, poor notbob! what IS it about people being all crazy cavalier with feeding babies? i really had to bit my tongue once watching a mom let an obviously under-one kid try what looked like a ham sandwich...
that said, you may be dealing with a culture issue too (my understanding is that in the uk people are more gung ho on feeding earlier, as early as four months).

i think the non-thoughtful parents need articles with headlines like that to have their non-thoughtful complacency shocked off its non-thoughtful butt. and the thoughtful ones, of course, will read the whole thing and ask questions. but yeah, the line about how a small number of children have had adverse reactions to recommended doses, plus the one about how there's some research indicating the drugs might not even HELP, is interesting.

mox, hope your typhoid dissolves in time for the weekend smile.gif


tart
Delurking to say word, Anoushh. When I say no ice cream/juice/McDonalds/tahini, it's not because I like being the Lunch Nazi. It's because more likely than not, I'm going to be the one dealing with the upset tummy/poop from hell/sleep gone to shit that comes with going down that path.

If I were you, A, I'd have saved the sick & poop for the Mister to witness. Nothing like a little olfactory motivation... The upswing being, one day of crazy eating isn't likely to have caused irrepairable harm. Poor notBob, though!

Hey Shiny! Congrats, and welcome! Sounds like things are going pretty smoothly for you. runs to knock on wood!
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