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pepper
speaking of bleeding~
i thought yesterday... and then i thought "nah", but today it's for sure, at least a little bit.
i think i'm having a period wtf?!?
i got a break for a year and a half after little, until a week to the day after the first time i had sex again.
with this girl it's only coming up on nine weeks and i'm bleeding already? no dang sex either!
mad.gif

this i do not love. it's just one more thing for me to have to take care of.
le sigh.
shinyx3
ok mama's, i am having an issue. i am nursing and not producing enough. he is obviously still hungry and he nurses till i have nothing left. i am of course very frustrated with this but realize that i have been lucky to be able to nurse at all as i have had not one but two breast surgeries and was told from the start that i may not be able to nurse at all. i will continue to nurse but think i may have to start supplementing with formula. similac makes an organic formula. have any of you used this product. i did find some others but they are not names that i was at all familiar with. any suggestions on organic formula in general?


gah, i am frustrated. i want to be able to breast feed which is sort of ironic because with shinyboy i did nto like breast feeding and still managed for 6 mo. (i did supplement with him too but not his soon) he was such a chewer that i would often bleed because he would clamp down so hard even before he had teeth. so i went in to it this time thinking that if i made it to three months that would be great by me and i would switch to formula then. but with lilshiny i am loving the breastfeeding. not having any negative feelings with it and really want to keep it up. don't get me wrong, i will keep nursing him and only supplement when he does not get enough from me. i just am disappointed that he is not getting enough from me.

on another note, i am almost three weeks postpartum and had a stitch that has really been bothering me. i know that most stitches come out around 7-10 days and if they are dissolving ones then you shouldn't feel them at all and they just disapears into your tissue. anyway, i took it out this morning and now i am a little sore where it was. if it does not get better i will call my cnm and ask her about it. i was just wondering if any of you had any experience with this?
shinyx3
ok mama's, i am having an issue. i am nursing and not producing enough. he is obviously still hungry and he nurses till i have nothing left. i am of course very frustrated with this but realize that i have been lucky to be able to nurse at all as i have had not one but two breast surgeries and was told from the start that i may not be able to nurse at all. i will continue to nurse but think i may have to start supplementing with formula. similac makes an organic formula. have any of you used this product. i did find some others but they are not names that i was at all familiar with. any suggestions on organic formula in general?

gah, i am frustrated. i want to be able to breast feed which is sort of ironic because with shinyboy i did nto like breast feeding and still managed for 6 mo. (i did supplement with him too but not his soon) he was such a chewer that i would often bleed because he would clamp down so hard even before he had teeth. so i went in to it this time thinking that if i made it to three months that would be great by me and i would switch to formula then. but with lilshiny i am loving the breastfeeding. not having any negative feelings with it and really want to keep it up. don't get me wrong, i will keep nursing him and only supplement when he does not get enough from me. i just am disappointed that he is not getting enough from me.

on another note, i am almost three weeks postpartum and had a stitch that has really been bothering me. i know that most stitches come out around 7-10 days and if they are dissolving ones then you shouldn't feel them at all and they just disapears into your tissue. anyway, i took it out this morning and now i am a little sore where it was. if it does not get better i will call my cnm and ask her about it. i was just wondering if any of you had any experience with this?
moxiegirl
We tried the organic similac with moxette...it gave her WICKED gas. So, we went back to the old standby...Costco brand infant formula. Its exactly the same makeup as regular similac. Supplementing when you need to is doing right by the baby...your job is to feed and nourish him. You're figuring out what he needs and how to provide it. Annoush had a similar situation with notbob, and with the addition of formula, he thrived. I wish I had thought to pump for a while and go halvseys; i think i could have done that.

As for the stich, I'd call the CNM and see what she has to say. That's what the medical pros are there for.

We had a just delightful evening with moxette yesterday. She has figured out the "ride daddy like horsey" game! "Neigh! Neigh! More Dada!" Poor guy was exhausted, but we all were laughing and having fun. And. she was a super-duper cuddle bug at bedtime. Yum.
pepper
shiny for sure, for Sure contact LLL. they are the experts on breastfeeding and can give you some great suggestions and support.
would it be possible for you to pump between feedings to stimulate more milk production?
is he gaining weight and otherwise doing well?

little wanted to nurse all the time but not because he was hungry, he just wanted to suck and he wanted me and he wanted and wanted and wanted. i finally gave in and bought a pacifier, not that he didn't still want to suck ME but it eased the pressure a bit.

good luck!
moxiegirl
pepper has a good point...maybe its just the suckling reflex? Have you tried a paci? Moxette is 17 mos old, and still really relies on the sucking action to unwind at bedtime (and naptime at home). We're moving from milk to water in the bottles, though. Trying to swap those meal time vs. bedtime liquids. Don't push yourself beyond your own tolerances, and know that you are doing what is best for your whole family by investigating other options (paci, LLL, formula, combo of all three...).
aquagirl3
Another thing my doctor told me was that at night, if babies are in bed with you, they tend to just want to eat little bits quite often all night long. I told her we were trying to put the co-sleeper in the hall to get more sleep, and she said that was a good idea because when it's right next to the bed he can smell me and wakes more often. I also don't get woken by every little noise. I do have a longer hike to get him now though.
pepper
all babies are different though, and all mommies too. we share the bed (sometimes all three of us!) and this girl sleeps and sleeps, i have to wake her up to feed her sometimes. if she's fussy for sure i'm aware of it but that state of half-sleep is still an ok place for me. if i need to i stick in an earplug on the non-pillow side. i can still hear her but not so much that it keeps me totally awake. it's aware-asleep i guess.
i used to be a light sleeper too, i needed total darkness and silence to pass out or stay asleep but little cured me of that. i just needed sleep so badly that i started being able to get it no matter what AND i started being able to function on less and less sleep. no idea how that works huh.gif but it faded as he got older and i don't know if i'd be able to do it again. i don't think so, it aged me.
anyhoo, i'm the type that can get back to sleep again when she wakes me up to suckle or to cuddle but NOT if i have to get up and out of bed. if little makes noise and i get up and go to his room it takes a while before i can fall back asleep if i do at all. having her in another room wouldn't work for me.
it's just a fiddle-faddle fo trying to sort out what works for you. not only that, what works now might change all of a sudden or over time.
shinyx3
well, i bought some formula today but have not used it yet. i have used all of the extra breast milk i had pumped though. he eats so much at night. i can hardly believe how much he eats. he is three weeks old and i nursed till i was empty and he still wanted more so i fed him 4 more oz of breast milk in a bottle and then he wanted to nurse again so i let him till he fell asleep but i don't think there was much there by that time. i think i just can't keep up with his hollow legs. so tonight i will nurse and then supplement with the formula if he wants more and we will see what happens.


he does have a bink and likes it, but he rots when he is hungry and he won't take the bink very well then. otherwise, if he is just drousy and post feed then he seems to like it.


aqua, i think if he sleeps in the bed with me he wakes up more to nurse too. so i try to put him back in his cradle. pepper, you are lucky! i was super lucky with shinyboy but not so lucky with the sleep situation this time. he is soo damn cute when he wakes up though. (i am obviously still in the 'oh my god my baby is just so perfect and i am so happy' phase)
moxiegirl
shiny, is daddy there at night? Maybe he can get involved with the supplemental feeding part? Might mean longer stretches for you, and nice bonding time for the menfolk. Moxieman loved doing the dreamfeeds, and the mid-day daytime ones when he was home.
grenadine
important to keep pumping, too, to keep your supply up -- if he doesn't eat as much during the day, try pumping the opposite breast while he's nursing or pumping just an ounce or so soon after a feeding. when the bean was tiny i did this every time (because it leaked anyway) and accumulated a huge backlog of milk in the freezer...

some babies just love to eat at night. my friend's at all night, every night until he was several months and didn't eat much during the day. drove her crazy, but they survived.

we went to a vintage store and saw a witch on a broomstick flying from the ceiling. now the bean says, "i'm a scary witch!" and, "i'm scarier than the witch!"
i love how he inhabits all of his interests so completely.

knock knock, anoushh? you alive?

in other news, i dreamt that my second was born and my stepbrother was daniel craig, whom i was interviewing. in the dream, daniel craig was a sexy beast, and i was making fun of his tattoos. i don't want to think too hard about that.

ETA: actually, i think that dream means that when my second is born, i should go flirt with some sexy, tattooed beast (that does not describe my actual stepbrother) to celebrate no longer being trapped in a bovine, lumbering state. (of course, in reality i'll be home every night making organic baby food cubes and washing the floor on my hands and knees.) i'm sorry to say i'm resenting the hell out of being pregnant right now, mostly because i have so much else to do that i can't stand being slowed down.
moxiegirl
gren, i think resenting being pregnant is a sign that you're getting ready to have kidlette. Its natural, and everyone feels that way! How much longer now?
grenadine
_double post_
grenadine
theoretically, 3.5 weeks -- i'm 36.5 weeks -- but it could be anytime. although i was hoping to go all the way to the due date because i wanted a libra, now i'm thinking it'd be better just to get it over with now. i'm getting increasingly intolerant of my lumbering state!

ETA: i'm going for my 36 week check tomorrow and am interested to see if i'm dilated/effaced at all. last time i wasn't even when i began labour, and that SUCKED. i'm hoping this time my body will be a little better prepared and also i'll have a little more warning of how things are progressing...i am convinced i psyched myself INto an earlier-than-necessary labour last time due to fears about my encroaching MIL (she was coming the next week, and the mr kept telling me that if we didn't let her be present at the birth, which i really didn't want, she'd camp out on the front lawn). hopefully this time that will not be an issue, although in terms of life/work balance it might be better for the kidlet to come out early anyway (school starts on my due date, whoops!).
anoushh
Notbob is at the daycare for the first time right now.

I'm mostly ok. Sort of.

Only 3 hours total today, though. I think we can manage. Other than that crazy busy.

I totally believe that's possible about your first labor, gren. I bet you'll have a much easier time this time around.

Got to run (literally--I have to get to the post office.)
aquagirl3
Do you guys know anything about "Babywise", also called "parent-directed feeding"? It's supposed to be a good in-between instead of strict scheduling ot total demand-feeding. I'm kind of trying to follow it. Here is the new routine I am going to try to be more consistent with, now that he is 8 weeks old:
Feed at 6, 9, 12, 3, 6, 9 plus or minus 15 minutes (unless he seems to be unnaturally hungry--may be a growth spurt then)
Do Eat, Awake, Nap cycle so that he is napping 1-1.5 hours
Don't let him nap in swing (this will be a hard habit to break!)
After 9 pm feeding, let him sleep as long as possible before night feeding
Bring him back to crib after night feeding (he DEFINITELY wants to feed more when he sleeps with me...but it's so hard! I'm so tired, and he's soooo cuddly, just the most adorable little cuddle monster...ooo his little face in the very dim light in the middle of the night just KILLS me...oops sorry, tangent)
I know a lot of people are against schedules, and I will be flexible, but I feel so much better planning for certain feeding times even if they end up changing..and I want to make an attempt to get him sleeping longer at night.
That's the plan, Stan
PS. Has everyone seen my SWEET BABY? There is a picture of him up on my myspace page. www.myspace.com/scubameg
It's from his first week, though. He's so much bigger and more expressive now. He smiles all the time! and he says "Oooo"
moxiegirl
aqua, most pediatricians advise against the babywise system b/c it tends to lead to dehydration/poor nutrition, BUT, that might be for the newborn crowd. I think we started moxette on something more resembling a schedule at 9 weeks, when I went back to work. Daycare helped that tremendously, really. as for sleep, its a pretty common thing that laying the groundwork for good sleep habits should start around 3-4 mos age, but that babies generally can't handle self soothing until 4-6 mos, at the earliest. Have you run the babywise past your pediatrician?

I say that, but looking at your schedule, it seems SO reasonable for a 8 week old to be on. Eat every 3 hours or so, strict naptime (a MUST in our house), routine at bedtime. Have you thought of having Daddy do the 12 or 3am feeding? In the nursury?

I don't remember those days all that clearly...

Anyway, typhoid mary gave me her cold AND the god damed pink eye. At least I was planning on working from home today anyway, so I've got plenty to keep me busy and solitary. And, her pediatircian gave us 2 bottles of the eye drops, b/c the pink eye is so contagious, so I don't have to go see my doc, eiher. But shite, I'll look forward to: Being healthy, the fucking teeth coming out (up for 3 hours last night cuddling the poor lassie) and sleeping in tomorrow.
grenadine
we didn't use babywise, but we did use a modified E.A.S.Y. system (from the baby whisperer), and it worked well for us EXCEPT that i wish i'd been slightly less rigid/worried about it. not as lax as my friend who's coming over this morning and who didn't get her kid sleeping regular naps until age two, or maybe never (the last two playdates have been cancelled due to his missing/failing to nap, etc.), but less uptight than i was. with this second one we're just going to emphasize trying to encourage one long night sleep block and napping when the bean naps (and other times, but my cherished wish is to get them both napping at the same time every day; he's pretty regular from 1ish to 3ish, so hopefully she'll fall in line...).

speaking of #2, we still don't have a name (well, *i* have a name, but the mr doesn't love it and keeps suggesting things that i hate, so at this point i'm just trying to figure out how to bring him 'round fast; she's getting my last name, so he already feels deprived, which is ridiculous since the bean has his last name), i had my 36 week appt. yesterday (37 weeks on monday), and the CNM concurs with me that this baby probably won't stick around until 40 weeks. she predicted 38-39 weeks, which is in ten days. eep! even though that's what i was secretly thinking anyway, and i already rearranged my schedule for that week, i'm a little worried that we're not ready. so last night we dug out and washed a couple of bags of 0-6 mo. clothes and hopefully sometime todayish i'll get them put away and a hospital bag packed. and one for me too. if i can find any clothes.

mox, so sorry about the pink eye! i live in fear of that stuff. my nephew (age 5 mo.) had a suspiciously crusty red eye the other day and i was worried we'd all get it...is it painful? i've never actually had it, which is more than i deserve since i have terrible ocular hygiene, but it looks like such a drag. hope you're cured soon...

anoushh, glad you're managing. right now i'm thinking about how this parenting evokes struggling with life/work balance, or maybe with child/life balance. (yeah, i'm such an einstein.) i have been realising more and more lately how hard it is for me to have a family without giving it everything because it's SO important and i have so much respect for a child's life/experience. and it IS important, which doesn't make it any easier for me to relax about it. and sometimes i feel like i have sacrificed the life i wanted, which is 5000 miles away, for the life of Jane Average 30something Mom with a Job, and it drives me crazy because i don't want to die looking back on just this, much as i love my family. i'm having a terrible time figuring out how to get closer to a life i want, though, especially because it might involve compromising the security and stability of my kids' lives. and because i literally have given up (temporarily, one hopes) many of the pursuits that characterised my former life of relative freedom, interest, and creativity in order to 1)earn money and 2)provide a safe, stable environment and 3)be present as a parent. and i am doing those things. and i realise that many of my friends are just not as driven to do the stuff i gave up as i, and are content to just live normal, happy lives, doing their jobs and having fun when they're not working, and that this is a much more emotionally fulfilling and satisfying pattern than all-work-and-constantly-unfulfilled-ambitions. but i'm just not that way, i guess.

rambling! sorry. anyway, i know there are no easy answers, so please don't feel obligated to come up with any. and that little digression may not even make sense to some of you, which is probably good. but for me it's the central tension in my relationship to parenting.
shinyx3
gaaah, i think we have thrush. do any of you know about raw coconut oil for babies? it is supposed to work well for thrush and i have also heard that is sometimes given to low birth weight babies to help them gain which leads me to believe that it is indeed ok for consumption by baby. i did just call the kid doc and we are going in at 1050 so i will ask about it there too but sometimes they do not know much about natural remedies so i thought i would ask here too.

on a happier note, we are doing better with the sleeping thing. he is sleeping 3.5 to 4 hrs between feeds at night so when mrshiny takes a feed it makes all the difference in my day because i am not soooo tired.

moxiegirl
Gren, the pink eye hurts but not bad...sort of like allergy eyes. Its mostly just groady.

We have achieved balance mostly through accepting that THIS part of our lives is devoted to building our family's rock. Once our kid(s) are old enough, we will begin branching out. I have a girlfriend whose mom travelled all over the country for her work/school, and just took her family with her. The kids (my friend and 2 brothers) are all very well adjusted, well traveled folks. They more or less stayed put through each kid's High School experience (her youngest brother is a freshman in HS now), to give some sense of stability for that. It CAN be done.

So, what's the name? We really felt that with moxette, who has a hindi name, we should have a couple of very anglo names in case she was totally german in appearance. She has jet black hair and DARK eyes, though, so the hindi name (our first choice anyway) stuck. We've more or less come to girls get hindi names and boys anglo ones...cause those tend to be what we like most. That being said, the girls will all get angle middle names from my mom's family, and boys hindi/Indian ones from my dad's side. We all have the same last name. These naming options are challenging.
aquagirl3
What is the problem people have with Babywise? I'm not asking that in an aggressive way, it's an actual question. I don't want to do anything harmful. Is it that it involves too much "crying it out"? It can't be that they don't eat often enough, because he never really wants it earlier than I feed him anyway--the main change would be that I don't let him sleep past a 3 hour mark, which would mean he is feeding more often. Of course, he's not taking his super long naps anyway now that he's out of the swing, but it's only the second day.

Do you think I should let him nap in the swing? It's only the second day and I'm already wavering...he just sleeps so damn well in it, for 2-2.5 hours without a peep...and upstairs he cries off and on the whole time, and so far hasn't slept longer than 30-40 minutes at a time. But I have to break this habit now rather than later, right? Arggg. I never know what is the right thing to do!
pepper
following a schedule just seems like one more darn thing to do to me. what a pain in the a$$. i just feed her when she's hungry, sometimes that's every 20 minutes but for me it's not a problem. i mean, sometimes i just want to nibble or snack too and then i'm hungry again right away, why shouldn't she be the same? same with sleeping, i let her when she wants to. i did the same with little. i don't have any idea what's going on in that little body but IT sure does and it knows what it needs too. i am the servant here, that's how i feel anyhow.
and i NEVER let her cry, no way no how. that's the only way she has of letting me know that something isn't right for her. i want her to know that i'm there for her and that i'll give her what she needs. or at least try tongue.gif
karcher

gren: about the life/work balance - ditto, as much as i love having a family and caring for the little one, there are many moments when i missed doing 'my stuff'. sometimes i feel like i've sacrificed my 'other' life too, that one was literally half a world away. i was a musician/artist and in a way i did choose to put that life on hold while i started my family. when i go insane not being able to engage in creative activities and when i feel dragged down by the seeming drudgery of feeding changing nappies house/mum duties, i have to keep reminding myself that this is what i wanted now - as opposed to keep on pushing myself for a sort of career ultimatum, and anyway now is as good a time as any. i figured if i was really good people would still respect me later, plus, i'm a mum and they should respect me more! i'm contributing to the society with a bub. but back to the point, career or not, having my creativity outlet sort of clogged up is very frustrating. i have been able to do a few things though, slowly, i've had a few lucky hours. i think i will just have to learn to treasure my lucky moments. as to getting back to the other side of the world... *sigh*... i just know that when i do manage to get there, i'll be so much happier than last time, and my life there will be so much richer too with my family in tow - and then i probably wont be able to concentrate and get things done...

i didnt think until i got pregnant how much i would have to give up my life, that i could feel i was saying goodbye - physically and mentally - to my old self. and theres no point talking to the mister about it coz he says well just go and do it, arghh.
moxiegirl
aqua, it is that the babies get malnpurished/dehydrated, BUT, I think seriously that applies to the newborns who are on a longer stretch between feeds and a "set" amount of time per feed. Setting a schedule that works for your family at 8 weeks old seems perfectly reasonable to me. Expecting bebe to take to it right away...well, that may take a bit of getting used to. And, if your wee one sleeps well in the swing, I say stick with it. Nap in swing, night in crib...that's still a routine. Moxette wouldn't nap anywhere besides a chest or her swing until she was 4 mos old, but she slept like a log in her crib at night right away.

Anyway, we had great fun at gramma's today. My folks live in the country, and moxette saw 5 BUCKS today. Holy goodness, what a treat!
anoushh
Well, with the current situation I have less time than usual and more stuff to do than usual as well, so I'll only respond to what are the most critical for me here.

Almost none of my so called "dissolvable" sutures actually dissolved__I just healed over them. I went back about 3 or 4 times for the midwives to remove them as they worked there way out. It hurt something wicked --the sutures coming out, not the removal so much--(I had a third degree tear also, which didn't help) and it took ages to get over it all. If it keeps bothering you definitely go get it checked out. I got some Rx strength lidocaine gel which helped my discomfort levels enormously also.

As for supplementing, I'm sorry if I missed the answer to this already, but is the baby gaining weight adequately? I'd use that as a guide more than other behaviour, like wanting to suck all the time, which could be all kinds of things. I think it's easy to decide you aren't making enough, but babies love to suck and not much else comforts them when they are tiny.

If that's not an issue--ie, you have that answered to your satisfaction---it still pains me to do it, but Wal-Mart has organic formula far cheaper than any place else, and it never bothered not-bob more than any other formula. I hate Wal-Mart with a fiery passion, but when it was 3:30 am, and I hadn't made really any milk at all for something like 5 days, Wal-Mart was all that was open. So we found out it was cheapest, and so I'm compromising my principles somewhat for the sake of the baby. I keep telling myself it's not the baby's fault that wal-mart sucks.

One thing I did learn in what was a very painful experience for me (wanting and trying to breastfeed, but just never producing more than a few drops of milk) is that a lot of people I know had similar experiences or knew people who had similar experiences. That made me feel a bit better about it all.

As for the babywise thing, I guess the main thing I learned about schedules and programmes and such is that while many of them have parts that might be useful in different ways for different people 1) every baby is different. What works for one will not work for another. 2) every mom is different. What is hardest for you to cope with might be very different from what I find hardest to cope with. It's all tradeoffs. And most importantly 3) There is no magic answer for any baby. A hell of a lot of it is just time and the baby and his/her brain maturing.

I spent WAAAAYYYY to much time worrying about the "setting bad habits in sleep" idea when notbob was tiny, even though in my intellect I knew better. How old is your baby? Tiny still, right? At this stage you sleep however you can. If the baby sleeps in the swing, go for it. Even notbob, who still kind of sleeps for shit, got better with time, not because of anything I did or didn't do, but because he grew up. When they are tiny they need what they need. I"m not familar with babywise, but it sounds way too much like "don't spoil them by holding them too much" and such, which is nonsense. Again, there's no magic answer, in spite of what some people love to insist. It's time more than anything. At this age they have no ability to self sooth, they've made a huge transistion into a totally different world, and the brain still has SOOOOO much growing to do.

I'd be wary of the coconut oil. Gentian violet is incredibly effective (though a bit messy.) See what the ped says.

Gren, I find the demands of parenting and all that you've mentioned incredibly hard, and I have from the beginning. I know what you mean.

Also, we didn't have a name for notbob until he was just over a week old. We didn't know if he was a boy or girl, and had a girls name picked out easily (my grandmother's name and an Armenian middle name I liked--which I then later realized was the Armenian version of my mom's name.) But we could not, as hard as we tried, come up with a boy's name. We didn't even have a last name decided when he was born (thanks to Moxiegirl's suggestion of boy=his last name, girl=my last name, we finally did figure that out. You suggested that the day before he was born, and at the birth center when they asked us about names, for last name I said "I was meaning to ask you, what do you think of this idea..." and he thought that was fine, so phew--at least we had a last name.

That's how the name "notbob" came about. The mister kept threatening to call him "bob" and I kept saying no way. At the birth center he started up with the Bob thing again, and when we left I just said something about "you take not-bob." It was a source of considerable amusement and it sort of stuck.

Oh, and we ended up with the name I was considering for a middle name as a first name--Ara, the name of an Armenian king--and the middle name was one we liked, but is also the real first name of a close friend (though he goes by something different) and the last name of my best friend. And we liked it. But it was HARD work to come up with one.
grenadine
i also had a "dissolvable" suture that had to be removed and it hurt a bunch, but was better than the nagging, itchy, painful feeling of having it stay in.


karcher, i know what you mean about the mister saying "just go do it." because what they really mean is, "if i felt so compelled, i'd just go do it, knowing that you'd be here to pick up the slack," but when you're 3 mo. postpartum with leaky breasts and a bad case of the frumps and you can't remember what it's like to have a leisurely pee, much less go find a channel for your creative impulses which are, of course, on hiatus, "just go do it" doesn't really help.
i'm just hoping that someday the mr will be the one supporting me so that i can do what i want. maybe in 18 years.

i really want to have the name for this baby in the hospital because i'm lazy and it's easier to do the forms that way. as for last names, i wish i had lobbied for a boy to have my last name and a girl his, but this really isn't about gender -- it's more about the fact that the first time i let his last name be the one and i never felt entirely comfortable with that, and have become less so as time's gone on, mostly because of how i feel about his family -- so this one is getting my last name. and then he's getting a vasectomy.

mox, you mean deer, not dollars, right? we saw some at the coast last week; it was cool. there were tons of rabbits there, as well. then a couple of days ago the bean cracked me up by pointing into a tree and going, "look! a rabbit!" (it was a squirrel).

aqua, i know it's hard to listen to, but LET SLEEPING BABIES LIE. the only thing to be gained from worrying about waking a baby up before he/she is ready is a)crankiness, b)less time for yourself, c)an increased sense of compulsiveness, micromanaging, control-freakism, and neuroses, and d)agita. take it from one who knows. and i'll probably work off some modified version of a schedule this time, except for not being a clockwatcher. in my observation, the problem is that either parents tend to be like me and take schedules waaaay too seriously, or they tend to be like my friend and be SO lackadaisical that it never really works. i remain glad that i was a hardass about bedtime (no going out at bedtime, no dragging my kid around to dinner parties, etc.) as he for his whole life has had the most regular and predictable and easy bedtime of any young child i know, but i can't believe how much time i wasted worrying about whether i should wake him up, etc. etc.

oh, and another thing: the whole "i have to break this habit now rather than later" idea is just false. as any mom can tell you, your baby is constantly changing. we let the bean sleep in a vibrating bouncy chair (i know, a big no-no according to everyone and his mother) for a couple of weeks early on when he was quite fussy. he then proceeded to take right to his crib with no fuss and about five minutes of bedtime ritual for over a year (now the bedtime ritual is longer and involves more book plea-bargaining). you have to keep in mind the baby's issue with sleeping (which may currently be solved by the swing, etc.) is a transitory thing. it is not that he's going to refuse to sleep anywhere else until he's five. really. that's like saying that if you breastfeed your baby he will want to do it until puberty, which i think a lot of unevolved people are secretly afraid of, but which is totally ridiculous. children do grow out of things, whether bottles or boob or swing or whatever. i'd say as long as it doesn't involve narcotics, don't worry about creating a "lifetime bad habit."

oh, and the name is verena (pronounced "ver-AY-na," not "ver-EE-na."). it's from the latin for truth and comes through german. it's actually not uncommon there, but is rare in anglophone places. it's less that i'm madly in love with it as that it fulfills all my various name requirements and i think it's a good name to grow into. the mister keeps suggesting heinous things like that either sound like last names or grandmothers and i'm not down. if we come up with something else that works, i'm all for it, but for now i'm biding my time and hoping he comes around. i might stoop to suggesting some really heinous ones that i could conceivably like in order to sway him toward it.
the babe will, of course, have a chinese name (the bean does too, given by my aunt who's fluent at his one-month party -- this is a chinese tradition that we'll be doing this time too) but that will be in addition to, not instead of, an english name because of the total inability of non-chinese-speakers to pronounce a tonal language; just too complicated, plus frankly i don't think chinese names sound at all good in english, anyway. my sister gave her son a chinese first name and ended up changing it because SHE couldn't even pronounce it properly. it was too sad.

anoushh
We agonised over the last name thing the whole pregnancy. In the end the solution was more along the lines of "flip a coin" than anything. The mister kept suggesting my mother's maiden name as it is armenian (and quite nice) but while that was appealing in some ways, in others it wasn't. No easy answers.

Oh, and when I say the sutures hurt "coming out"--what I mean was when they were working their way out (then getting stuck) as opposed to the actual removal. One of those hurt like crazy, too, but in the end she applied some lidocaine gel to the area first and then no problem. I swear, I thought I'd never, ever be pain free, let alone have sex again, the whole thing hurt so much.

One of the midwives--bless her--told me she'd had a fourth degree tear with her first, and no tear at all with the second. She said she remembered what it was like to feel you'd never be normal again but it does get better. That helped a lot.

I can sympathize with the problems with a tonal language in an non-tonal language environment.
We have problems enough with people calling Ara "Air-a"--it's "Ah-ra" Not to mention everyone thinks it's a girl's name.

When we were trying to decide names I ended up making a list of horrible ones which I then presented with a serious face as he kept rejecting ones I liked. My mother and I were crying tears of laughter doing it. Maybe it was the sleep deprivation, but it was fun. He caught on relatively quickly, but it was still fun.

Btw, I've been the same kind of hardass as you Gren about bedtime, evenings, etc, and notbob still sleeps for shit in so many ways. And almost every night is a struggle getting him to bed. It's just the way he is. Think how much worse it would be if we didn't have a basic routine for him.

anoushh
Btw, I like the name Verena. It looks nice, too.
grenadine
thanks...hopefully verena will remain in the running. the mr really likes veronica, which i object to on various grounds (one of which being that i canNOT think of it without the elvis costello song running through my head, damn that paul mccartney), but has some mental block about verena. i think basically the mr has a different name aesthetic than i; his is more conventional. makes it tough. i'll have to try the "horrible names" ploy, though in my case i want to fool him. with my luck, though, he'll actually go for one of them (e.g. "hortense"...).

glad to hear that it's possible not to tear...my cousin has just been regaling me with tales of how she tore every time (three) and it healed up "tighter than ever" (yuck, but i swear that's a direct quote) each time as well. i've already got a tentative plan that says i'd rather tear than have an episiotomy, which i stand by, but i'd even rather not tear at all.


and here's the thing: when you get around other kids and their parents more, you realise you're not doing such a bad job and/or not so unlucky. i tend to be very critical and worry that i'm spoiling the bean/not doing bedtime well enough (it HAS gotten a lot harder quite recently)/not teaching good enough manners/not modeling independent play/not whatever enough, and when we joined this coop playgroup/school thing i saw how other children his age and their parents are behaving and concluded that compared to most kids his age, the bean is an excellent sleeper (LOTS of parents whose two-year-olds wake up every couple of hours/insist on ending the night in their parents' beds/have a tantrum every night/etc.) and and the rest isn't so bad either. really, i'm amazed at what some people will put up with! on the flip side, my mother thinks the bean is a CRAZY INSOMNIAC because he tends to sleep from nine p.m. to six-thirty a.m. with a two-hour nap. she thinks any normal child should sleep 11 or twelve hours with a three-hour nap. i keep telling her that would be nice, but it's not average, but that's how my nephew is so she thinks it should be that way. of course, my nephew takes after his mother (my sister, who was always a big sleeper) and my son takes after me (i hardly slept as a baby and used to routinely stay up all night reading, as in until six a.m., as young as age five, so he's way better than i was), so go figure.

i persist in believing, anoushh, that the hardassness will pay off eventually, as the various things i now think my parents did right (but hated/resisted at the time) paid off. maybe not till he's four, or even eight, but eventually he'll be better off for having always had a firm bedtime.
moxiegirl
here's our front runners for the way-future potential sibling names: Girl= Asha Frances (frances being my mother's middle name) or Alisha Frances (Alice is my mom's first name), as moxette has my grandmother's name as her middle; Boy=Dean or Carter (after Dean from 'On the Road' and Jimmy Carter) and Kirit (dad's name) for middle. We may come up with others, but its a long way off, so just something for fun now.

I hate pink eye. I can't really tell if the medicine is working (i think it is) b/c a common side effect is RED, ITCHY eyes! D'oh! They're much less goupy, which means its working, i think.

And (drumroll, please)....third morning in a row (not counting 3am teething bottle) that we have gone past 7am with no baba!! She woke up around 6:15, but I was in the bathroom, with the monitor (so moxieman didn't hear her), and by the time i was done, she was back asleep! WHOO HOO! I'm really trying to just wait it out on going in now, as she seems to be getting the hang of morning self-soothing.

We also have learned how to: Climb onto the easy chair (using the foot recline bar as a step), push FORWARD on her little tykes bike and say "animal." I have a good kid.
pepper
i like verena too. rain-ah for short is better than ronnie anyday! maybe if he hears other people saying how much they like that name he'll open up to it a bit more? i picked the names for both my littles and we all have a last name that i chose that is no one else's (did you know you could do that?).

gren and anoush, very nice advice about sleeping and other routines. and i for one can vouch for the hardass pay off. little puts stuff away where it goes, puts the lid down on the toilet, washes his hands, puts laundry in the basket, and goes to bed without a hassel. etc etc. it's because i'm a heinous shrew of a mother and i never let up. it's hard but it does work.
grenadine
thanks, pepper...and yeah, ronnie is awful! reminds me of reading archies.

and my "good sleeper" woke up every two hours fretting last night...very unusual. what is wrong, i wonder?

and i'm already seeing some payoff. my stepdad is always AMAZED that the bean prefers to put things back where they go (where he found them) without being asked, and throws things in the garbage/compost when i ask him.

we briefly considered ALL changing our names to a unique last name, but the trouble is i don't really want to change my name; i am attached to my name for cultural/historical reasons. i just don't like/want the mr's name because i am a cruel and unfair person and his family has begun to represent the Death Star of All Deadly Faults and Ethical Failures to me.

mox, i love frances also, probably as a middle name. bedtime for frances! you're lucky you have the names all lined up. my friend had her kids' names picked before she even had someone to have them with - that always amazed me.

pepper, is the little princess's dad in the picture? sorry i seem to have missed that newsflash -- i'm wondering if you had to negotiate with him re: name or if this is primarily your project. in many ways i think it would be easier if i weren't married, as if i weren't married i would simply say "my last name, end of discussion," but i have given up the right to autocracy (alas...).
pepper
i have papa approval with the names i chose, first middle and last actually. i pick good names happy.gif .
i would have given them either way though, so un-fair of me but too bad. i am the momma.
as for the last name thing, at least in the beginning they are nearly always with mom (if you breastfeed anyhow) so i figure it's good to have the same last name. i have to cross the border to visit my mom, it's a REALLY good thing the kids and i have the same last name!

as for papa, well, we're negotiating. having a baby changes everything whether you like it or not... dry.gif
karcher

about names, bub - we think she'll be sixteen and we'll still be calling her bub... - takes daddy's anglo-german surname and my chinese surname. we've talked about doing the hyphen thing or chinesifying daddys etc but they just sound and look ridiculous, and now shes got the best of both worlds. unfortunately, though, we live in a western society that does not allow us to put 'symbols or characters of no phonetic significance' on her birth certificate so her chinese name does not appear there. at least she has one, a real one. we're really proud of her names now, before she was born we didn't have a clue, just had a couple of ideas floating around (and we didn't know if she was a boy then either), but when she came out we knew what to call her. her middle name is after my dad, i'm particularly happy about that.

(and yes, ronnie is quite awful. eeek.)

shes starting to have a day and night awareness now, thank god, i'm thinking of trying a nighttime routine. she's fine sleeping in my bed by herself, somehow i think because she hasn't seen/had us sleeping in the cot with her, it's not 'the sleeping place'. mmm. maybe we should just get her a normal bed already so we could accompany her a bit and then leave her to sleep? any ideas anyone? the other thing is, uh well when she wants to nurse in the night i'm too sleepy so i'll fall asleep myself and she of course stays in our bed anyway, so we probably won't get to having separate beds until she's not feeding off me... hmm.
anoushh
Poor notbob has a cold. He's a snot factory. We had a bit of a rough night as a result.

shinyx3
i just left lil at home with papa for almost 50 min while i took shinyboy to meet my sis in town. mr shiny (papa) was fine and though ti was silly to be so stressed but oh my, i felt like i had to go racing back home. everything was fine. i do not remember feeling this way with shinyboy. it is amazing what 10 years of growing up does to a person. i had him at daycare by one month of age. i can not even imagine that with lil. i am not sure if it is that he needs him mommy or his mommy need him. tongue.gif

on the name discussion, shinyboy, lil and i all have very unique names and lil and my last name is the same as the mr's and it goes really well with our first names. shinyboy has my ex's last name. i did consider using my maiden name as lil's middle name but only for a moment. he has a truly beautiful name. it is very long though so we have a shorter version that we call him.
moxiegirl
karcher- our bff's did this as relares to sleeping in "her" bed vs. your bed: when the little one was nursing, he went to bed in his crib, and came to momma mid0night (really 3 or 4 am), and then, daddy took him bback (sometimes) to his crib when he work up around 6am. So, little BFF always had his own space, but also got the closeness of nighttime nursing. He still cuddles with his folks in the wee hours if he has a very bad dream or something like that.

A routine is only as good as it works for the whole family.

Ok, moxieman has returned with ice cream. Night ladies!
shinyx3
"A routine is only as good as it works for the whole family."

moxie can i quote this to my hubby, it is a great quote, soooo true.

the mr thinks i can make a routine up for a baby that is less than a month.
moxiegirl
Sur eyou can! BUt, you can't attribute it to me. I got it from the long-ago bustie farmgirl!
grenadine
sometimes it amazes me that we don't just move to a matriarchal naming model, especially in this day of blended families, etc. as for characters, there are some perfectly good transliterations of chinese characters - i've had one for a last name my whole life - and that's what we're putting on the birth certificate. the ENTIRE chinese name (the given name) doesn't go there, though, partially because it doesn't get chosen until later.

yes, i remember busty saying that. very true.

we're having toddler frustration and i'm having massive frustration with the mr who, despite my admonitions, does everything we've agreed doesn't work with a two-year-old (saying "no" constantly, over-explaining, putting up roadblocks instead of diverting/deflecting) and therefore helps create even MORE bad behaviour. for those of you for whom toddlerhood looms, i strongly advise 1)agreeing on some basic practises with your partner now, 2)practising on an available ornery toddler older than your child, and 3)meditation/xanax. seriously.

grrr....

tart
Gren, we're facing the same issues here - toddler frustrations & Tartman suddenly whiffing the ball... I had to get some work done yesterday & after half an hour had to go downstairs & see what all the shrieking was about. Tartlet wanted to pull all the CDs off the shelf & Tartman was just standing there with his hand blocking access. mad.gif I said "Hey, Bug, what's in here?" & showed him his funky tree softie with all the animals hiding in it, and like magic he was back to Mr Smiley. Go figure. Seriously, Daddy - distract, deflect, go for an effing walk, do something. Bah.

We've got teh snot here, as well, Anoushh - not bad, but enough that there's lots of face-wiping going on...

Love Verena, though my brain reads it as Verbena...

Stupid work.
grenadine
exactly! and you're thinking, um, DUH. i think they become convinced that they have to "nip this behavior in the bud" or he's going to keep such antics up till he's 10, when in reality making it a face-off is only going to prolong it...

but it makes me feel like when i have this baby i'm just going to have to hand her off to the mister all the time because he can't manage our two-year-old without acting like a confrontational, shortsighted, authoritarian asshat (and i am FOR discipline and against parents who let toddlers bully, act rude, etc; but i also have decades of 'field experience' maneuvering around toddlers rather than trying to MAKE THEM BACK DOWN. geez. i mean, why stonewall when you can win?) wink.gif
grrr!

and i meant to say farmgirl. wonder where she is, anyhow...
anoushh
Why are men so clueless about babies? Honestly.

And why is it so hard to get the concept that the way an adult would be thinking in a given situation is not how a baby, toddler, or ever older child is thinking. That's for a lot of people, not just men.
grenadine
well, i tend to think a lot of people are clueless about a lot of things, and most people are quite resistant to seeing/noticing things that are different from their preconceived notions of the world and/or their own perspective (solipsism! it's what's for dinner!). it's just more egregious when you're dealing with a co-parent who is NOT UNDERSTANDING some basic and fairly obvious things. what i don't know is how to manage it best; i know the mr is being, as i accused him this morning, shortsighted and ineffective as a parent, and i know that he knows it, but the leap from there to adopting some better techniques often seems like a grand-canyon-sized chasm.
moxiegirl
well, gren, you've just hit the nail on the proverbial head. We've realized that moxette is in need of some more regular, consistent structured discipline (diversion, dissapointment, what have you). How to go about that is more or less what we need to figure out. Moxieman and I are on slightly different paths (he's more accepting of whiny-ness than I am, less accepting of her crying fits than I am), and we have agreed that we need to sit down together, quietly (like at dinner w/o her) and chart a course. She's so frustrated and chaotic and not having words, that she needs more guidance than she has gotten recently.

Why do I know this? B/c she bit a kid in frustration yesterday at school. MY sweet, charming, funny kid is the biter. Her teachers are perplexed and immediately think its frustration inside coming out, b/c she's "not one of the agressive ones" and responded right away to the time-out she received. I tend to agree with them, and am about to ask her lead teacher (who isn't there at pick-up time) for a parent-teacher meeting to discuss.

Any of yous out there with the toddlers...suggestions? We're open to just about anything. My inclination is to step up "areas" (craft area, play area, reading corner, etc.) and the 1-2-3 OUT mentality, but I still haven't figured out how to get her to sit still long enough for a time out that's not in her bedroom with the door shut (not something I want to do, but will if it works).

Gren, I'd suggest sitting down and listening to what the Mr. thinks is a good course, then negotiating to something you're both happy with. He cares, and is trying MUCH more than even a few months ago. Gotta give the guy some cred for that!

Ok, i gotta go get moxette up for school. *MWAH*
pepper
i don't know about time outs, it's not really a working solution and i think it can increase the frustration on both parts. how about some positive attention when she's being a terror, like some totally focused loving positive vibe. that may sound crazy but if both (or all of your) energy is up try taking the total opposite approach. grab her up in a big snuggle and drown her with love. it might work. i have a girlfriend who diffuses every situation with her now 8 y/o by making a joke and getting him laughing. she's always done that. once they're both lightened up they talk out a solution. i really admire that, instead of going with the tension or anger she stops it in it's tracks. i just yell. sigh.

i do think a little sign language is a good idea for the pre-language set. they understand so much more that they can verbalise. then she CAN tell you how she feels, what she wants etc.

biting is a hard one to deal with, you can't just ride that out 'cause bites are dangerous. hmm. that kind of behavior is best head off at the pass. now that the daycare knows if they notice her getting frustrated can they take some time with her before it escalates to biting?

mg, who do i call to find out how to cross the border with her without her birth certificate? do you know? i have her health card but that other id takes forever...
moxiegirl
I'd try the Canadian consulate? I did a quickie search, and found this info for the crossing at Washington/BC (i'd assume the same requirement applies in Detroit/Windsor or Port Huron/Sarnia): Border Crossing Info. We haven't tried taking moxette to Canada yet. I do need to still get a copy of her birth certificate, though...

I like the diffuse with laughter routine. Let me try a scenario out, and see where that might fit in...

Coloring with markers (crayola washables) is a brand new, most favorite thing to do. She colors the paper, the stuffed animals, herself, me...and the carpeting. That is the one place where I have to do a "nope, no free expression of magenta on my carpet" line in the sand. Instead of saying "no", we try the "Hey, let's draw on the paper/table/bunny/self". Mostly works. Sometimes, though, she looks at me, defiantly, and draws on the carpet, again, to see what reaction it will bring. Second time: "Moxette, we said draw on the paper. We don't draw on the carpet. One more time, and the markers go away and we play something else" (ok, the play something else part comes later). Third time, the markers go away. Tantrum city. Where in that order would the laughing/hugging/showering with love part fit? There's a book recommended in our "Toddler 411" called the "1-2-3 Solution" that I may investigate, too.
pepper
i had a friend who used the 123 magic stuff and it seemed to work for her 6y/o but i wonder about it's ultimate effect, the lasting message. sometimes he would actually ask for the time out, i think he really just needed more (any kind of) structure and guidance and Attention than he was getting and the 123 thing gave him that. anything else that did that would have worked just as well.

the marker thing, personally i take the markers away the first time. sure there might be tears and tantrums but if i take the markers and grab up in a hug with some razberries then substitute for something else it might work. the message is very clear though and i think it makes a difference next time. emphasizing that there will be another chance to draw later on is good too, sometimes they think whatever is happening is forever.
dealing with a consiliatory voice seems to be helpful too. it's hard for me to remember not to snap or be exasperated and sound like it but if i am sympathetic it's less of a power dynamic and acknowledging of feelings. "i can see that you seem very angry/upset/etc" and "markers don't go on the carpet/wall etc. you can try again later". i'm not even sure about this kind of natural consequence parenting either, the more i read the more doubt i have about it. but so far i like it best of all of them. it's more "me and you kid, learning about the world together" than "i'm the boss of you".
every kid/parent dynamic is going to be different. maybe head it off by having marker time only in a craft area. "this is where the markers live" kinda thing. it's gonna be hard, just like everything at that age. they are just utterly unreasonable, i remember.
i'm up for it next yo, can't wait blink.gif
moxiegirl
Well, I talked in depth with my mom last night about this, as she and my dad, and ALL my aunts seem to think moxette is me at 1 year old in a body that looks like her dad. Figure, they have the experience, ya? Mom said she "came to expect" the stubborn about everything from my brother and myself, even in the fun stuff. She also noted that "1-2-3" gave me the chance to make my own decision, which in the long run, made me easier to handle. It kind of makes sense that a willful child, rather than being broken of that, should have it directed. I'd hate to break the "Ravani girl" spirit out of this one. That would be so sad. Oh, I don't know. We'll see what moxieman thinks this weekend.
pepper
it's stupid ridiculous hard to figure out if what you're doing is helping them or messing them up for life. at least we're thinking about it hey? could be worse...
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