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grenadine
there goes my faith in the system. i retain, however, my faith in the potential for influencing people, especially little sisters who don't have it together, when the right buttons are pushed. you're the big sis -- how can you approach this to buy that little girl some more time? guilt? pleas? objective demonstration of how much better her kid will be, and how much better she'll feel about it, after some more time with you? appeal to little sis's personal goals (e.g. "you could get a job/get your life together/fix your relationship/whatever" while i take care of princess..."
there must be some way...

i do mean to be supportive, fiddler. it's because you sound so much better equipped to take care of that poor child that i'd endorse fighting dirty to make it happen.

and this is when i wonder why people don't have to get licenses to have children. geez.
good luck, whatever you do.
moxiegirl
well, again, I suppose its finding the "guru" that works. We got Dr. Brazelton's book when moxette was 4 months old and we were absurdly overtired. I was all about going Ferber...like I said, I really don't have any problem letting her cry for a few minutes, and had great confidence in our ability to rely on our bedtime routine and the dream-feed to carry us for a few days. Ferber was out at the bookstore, adn Brazelton was in.

it took us months, but on the sleep issue, we were SO much closer to the Ferber. Overall, Brazelton's many years of being the baby guru has taught me much about child development, and he always provides multiple strategies for any situation. He's a big, big, big proponent of teaching an older infant (say 6-8 months...and repeated over and over at "toughpoints" of regressive behavior) that she/he can sooth him/herself by NOT becomming their point of soothing yourself. hence, the lovie. Moxette took to a lovie LONG before we realized that's what she had done.

Dr. Sears, on the other hand (i'm a critic at heart, I think), just seems didactic and his tone pisses me off more than most. Eh well. he's also the one who provided a good conversion chart for infant vs. child strength motrin.

Gren...
QUOTE
is it a common occurrence for non-breastfeeding mothers to be "shamed"?
Yes. Especially given when stupid people, who when they found out I was bottle feeding my newborn, actually said (and I shit you not): "If you weren't even going to TRY breastfeeding, why did you even bother having a child?" Yes. I agonized over the descision,but once we made one, I knew it was the right one. You all know my reasons, and the long road that got us there. But, yeah, it seems the more "naturalistic" types, which goes against the whole "loving" principle, seem to be the ones who feel its OK to shame/degrade/admonish bottle feeding mothers.

fiddler...just hold her lots. give her a few days to adjust, and pick up a reference book or two. Start a routine ASAP. Whatever works for your home. Are you putting princess in childcare? Have a pediatrician? The doc should be able to give you good advice too.

Here's our (more or less) schedule, C. 12 months old:

5AMish- bottle (small...3-4 oz) milk, cuddles, back to sleep
7:30AMish- wakes up for day. gets dressed, a book or two, off to daycare on weekdays...
Weekends/holidays/homedays: Breakfast, at the table (we do not go for random food wandering in this house). For 12 mos old, try frozen waffles, scrambelled eggs, oatmeal, cherrios, yougurt. Then play until snack (give r take 10amish). Then 15 min of TV. Then reading/art. Then naptime (is she still doing 2 naps? Then, small bottle and nap mid morning sometime). If 1 nap...around noon...small bottle, cuddles, nap.
Afternoon, more or less repeat the morning, with some adventure thrown in.
Dinner, at table (lunch too...either before or after nap), around 6ish
Another 15-20 min of TV, if she asked for it.
Play, play play.
7:30...stories, bath, PJs, bottle (6-8 oz milk), bedtime.

If she's waking up at night, try working (over a few weeks) it out by cutting the bottle first, but giving cuddles. Then cut cuddles, but go in a tell her she's fine, you're there, etc. Then, let her work it out. That process is repeated for each successive "normal" wake up time. Said process goes to hell for nightmares, teeth, foot stuck in crib, lovie over the side, whathave you.
kiss_the_fiddler
So far so good today. Woke 1x during the night and went back to sleep without too much trauma after a short cuddle and a little bottle (I do know that bottles in bed aren't good, tackling one thing at a time here).

Princess woke at about 0630 and came to snuggle in bed with me (thanks to a very supportive wife who is also great with babies).

Then up and breakfast of healthy yummy food (tofu, avocado, yogurt and grape juice).

After dressed and some play time, she's down for her 1st nap (she takes three according to g'ma who has cared for her recently).

I finally had a chance to shower and feel much better. A dear and competent friend of mine is stopping over in a few minutes so I can run to an appointment in town. Don't want to repeat yesterday's fiasco. I had a doc appt with an OB/GYN and had to hold a full throttle tantrum princess on my chest whilst doc examined me. Tricky.

I feel more gathered and less stressed. I'm happy about the good food that Princess is getting. I'm not feeding her anything I wouldn't find fit to eat myself. Far cry form what looked for the world like dog food that ended up in her poopy diaper yesterday. Poor little thing.

fiddler
grenadine
sounds like a good start to the day, fiddler.

mox, that is a monumentally nonsensical, not to mention rude, thing to say. i'm sorry you had to deal with that. since i haven't seen anyone on this board engaging in that kind of stupidity, my imagination is sometimes surpassed.

of course, i've been told "aren't you worried that he'll have an oedipus complex and never have healthy relationships with the opposite sex?" for breastfeeding. and we weaned at 21 months, people! it's not like i weaned at 21 YEARS!

--

wow, three is a lot of naps for age one. still, probably a good thing at this stage, especially if princess has not been well-nourished.

moxiegirl
people really said that at 21 months? Apparently, there are stupid people all over.

If she's always been doing 3 naps, and that's what she's used to, then its not "a lot." the trick is to work towards a more age-appropriate sleep schedule. Fiddler, has your lil sis said anything reassembling reason about princess staying longer?
grenadine
no, people said that at 13 months. believe it or not, there are a lot of people in this world who believe that the only reason any sane american woman would breastfeed past early infancy (say 3 months) is that she must have some bizarre need to exert sexual power through feeding and/or inflate her sense of self-importance and the child's dependency on her (in other words, for screwy psychological reasons).

i'm not trying to make fiddler paranoid; it's just my understanding that three naps is unusual compared to norms at 12 months. i may, however, be misremembering.

moxiegirl
oh, for a loved, regulated, child, 2 is definitly more "normal." But, I do know that BFF's son was a cat napper at 12 mos. So, it happens both ways.

Verena...COME OUT.

You know, if a person thinks its "right" to formula feed until 12 mos b/c infants can't handle loads of dairy...um, logic would also say that what formula approximates should ALSO be continued for at least 12 mos. Y';a think? Whatever, stupid people.
grenadine
yeah...you talk to her, mox, she's not listening to me. actually i've become somewhat resigned to maybe waiting until the due date (monday), which is what i originally wanted since it would make #2 a libra and i thought a libra would be more compatible with the bean (a leo) and our family in general than a virgo. (that was before i decided i was sick of being pregnant and a virgo was fine...) i am going to abandon myself to the winds of fate here. after all, i don't have the threat of looming MIL picketing my house like last time, so there's no rush. and it's only wednesday...plenty of time for her to decide to make a grand entrance before they start beating my door down about induction.

seriously, even though i realise making people get licenses to have kids would be akin to a police state and against all my principles, sometimes i wish it would happen. i saw this young pregnant woman (hacking smoker's cough, reeking of nicotine, covered with tattoos and talking about how she'd just gotten one, which IMHO is a dumb thing to do while pregnant, headed to get a HOT DOG at the local fast food vomit emporium) with a man i presume was the father at the post office yesterday and i was just like, man. you need some courses in nutrition, a hardcore anti-smoking program, and a sense of responsibility. geez.

ETA: and i actually seriously considered going to nondairy formula when we did wean, at 21 months, because of the bean's dairy allergy and my concerns about him getting enough nutrition -- kind of like "ensure" for a toddler. he's still quite thin (and this flu/GI thing my mom brought over isn't helping; you can see bones it's rare to see on a toddler, and it makes me cringe). the main reason i didn't is that i found a fortified soy milk he loved and i didn't think he'd go for the formula.
kiss_the_fiddler
Y'all are great! Thanks so much for the support. I think that Princess is more infant than toddler in several ways. For instance, she still needs her food quite untextured. She just recently learned to sit. She's small for her age. I do think she can catch up though as she's made great progress with g'ma before coming here. Again, thanks for the support.

As for breastfeeding, I can't make comments because I've never been there. I say whatever works for you . . .

No sound of reason yet from lil sis. One day at a time. I'll take what time she gives me and make it the best possible for Princess.

gren - wishing you a healthy family and safe delivery.

fiddler
kiss_the_fiddler
So, here's what we did today. It worked out pretty well but left little time for anything else. I guess that's okay for now.

Princess up at 630-ish
Breakfast of avocado, tofu, yogurt, banana
dressed and cleaned
down for nap (with bottle) at 830
up at 1015
lunch (same as breakfast) at 1100
down for 2nd nap (with bottle) at 1230
up at 1340
outside for a walk for about an hour
meal of raspberries, tofu, white grape juice and brown rice cereal at 1500
poop, clean up, and massage
down for 3rd nap (with bottle) at 1530
up at 1700
meal of peas, tofu, applesauce at 1600
bath at 1900
to bed (with bottle) at 1940

It's a busy schedule for me but it seemed to work really well for her. No fuss for naps today.

I do know that bottles in bed aren't good. One thing at a time. I'm learning to read her cues. I think the more I learn, the more responsive I can be to her needs.

moxi, looking at your schedule was helpful. Thank you.
pepper
that sounds pretty good.
one tip i got about caring for little people's teeth is to take a small cloth (little squares cut from an old flannel sheet work good), wet it and wipe inside the mouth (teeth, gums, lips and tongue) after meals and bottles if no tooth brushing is going on. i am going to do this with the wee girl because i didn't with little and man did we EVER have a cavity fiasco. tragic.
one question, is there a reason for so much tofu? is it because she doesn't like any other protien, eggs, beans, cheese, or whatever? i tend to use the soy in moderation myself, so just curious.

we have no schedule at all yet. she wakes and sleeps randomly but is asleep most of the night at least. i have started to notice a pooping routine happening lately, one day of not so much followed by a day of poop factory. no idea how long this will keep up, i only know if i don't see tons of it to be prepared for an abundance the next day.
poop. who knew i would ever care so much.
kiss_the_fiddler
pepper, the reason for tofu is because it's what i have in the house. i'm veg and eat tofu for at least 2 meals. haven't had time to find her other protein yet. also just learning what children of 12 months can have. we'll get it. is there a reason i should limit tofu? i'm open to learning.

fiddler
moxiegirl
fiddler-if she can tolerate it...go tofu!

Great sources of protien for 12 mos old:

Cheese
Eggs (our doc recommended 4-5 eggs a week, at least)
Hummus
Smoothies with yougurt (you can even add protein powder, if that's a concern)
yougurt (whole milk yougurt)---The YO! Baby yougurts are moxette's favorite
More cheese
Avacado! I WISH I could get my kid to eat avocado!
16oz+ whole milk (cheese/yogurt/icecream are all acceptable substitues) per day.

I've got a book here somewhere that has a great list. When I find it, i'll post some more. You sound like you're doing great! Jumping into parenting a 1 year old can't be easy under even the best circumstances.

Try with one nap (same one) each day to give her the bottle in your lap, then, down to bed with a lovie (blankie, stuffed animal, whatever). As she accepts that (she will), move on to each successive one. Within a couple weeks, she shouldn't need to be in bed with the bottle.

On the eating front. No green veggies, all of a sudden, in my house. POOP. Having chicken and pasta tonight, and little does miss thing know that frozen, chopped spinach will also be in her sauce. I was seriously hoping we'd avoid this toddler control bullshit.
pepper
great list moxieG.
nutbutters are terrific too, so long as there aren't any allergies. spread on crackers, apple slices, celery sticks (top with raisins for 'bugs on a log'), in sandwiches etc. i use almond, cashew and sunflower seed butters in little's lunches (the peanut free school thing). some kids just love beans too. little would eat a whole plate full of chickpeas or black beans and then literally ask me for more for "dessert" huh.gif . they make a great finger food though at 12 months i would smash them so they aren't a small, round choking hazzard.
tofu, there have been tons of studies. half say it's terrific, the other half say it's not. in deference to the controversy i just limit it in our diet (little is also veg, by choice). that way if it turns out it's great we had some and if it turns out it's not we didn't have much!
i stick with organic when i buy it though, it's a heavily sprayed and gmo-ed crop.

you're doing great btw. i applaud your auntie effort. wink.gif
grenadine
just the egg yolks (hard-boiled) are good too, as they're much easier to digest and vitamin-rich, and it's the whites that are an allergen. docs typically recommend avoiding egg white until after age one, but since she's just 12 mos. and adjusting, i'd skip them. they'd probably come out whole anyway...
aquagirl3
(My baby = 11 weeks.)
I haven't been on in a while, and coming on always makes me feel guilty. Like when someone said "I wouldn't let my baby cry. No way, no how!" and we never let him cry for more than 5-10 minutes, but he seems to routinely have a short fussy time right before sleep and I don't really see why it's bad to leave him alone to it. Also, someone said putting him in the bouncy chair while you do things around the house is mean??? For real? Does everyone here seriously carry their baby around in a sling or bjorn 24 hours a day?? I just don't get it. I can't do that. And when I do carry him in a sling or bjorn, he seems much more complainy and fussy than when he is in his bouncy chair or his swing. I interact with him 8-9 hours a day through breastfeeding, and when he is in his chair I talk to him and play with him, and keep him in the same room when I am doing other stuff. When he gets sleepy, I put him in his swing, and he naps there during the day. He wakes up, feeds, and watches a mobile, or the fan, or has tummy time with me or Daddy, or watches me doing stuff until he gets sleepy again. Am I doing something wrong?

I am breastfeeding, which makes me far superior to the bottle-feeders. (JOKE)
grenadine
aqua, i don't really understand why you're feeling such trepidation about the board - everyone here has different parenting styles, and i don't recall hearing anyone say YOU MUST CARRY YOUR BABY 24/7 or YOU ARE BAD. did i miss that?

i do think that if you're feeling insecure, maybe there is something you'd like to look at about what you're doing. and one thing that helps/helped me, especially when the bean was very new (because i am a compulsive multitasker) is to look at whether i am taking at least a short period of time each day to JUST interact with my kid - not through breastfeeding, carrying, or whatever, just sitting still and being present with him. it is a valuable time for you to both observe and recharge, and it's also a great way to check in with yourself about how things are going.

as for whether you're doing something wrong, other than maybe being a little too quick to beat yourself up/worry/attribute massive judgment to the board that i just don't see, i don't know. you're the only one who can answer that!
moxiegirl
aqua, when moxette was about that old, I felt exactly the same way you did. Being a new mama is the most anxious, nervous, stressful thing. In that context, anything that isn't 100% fitting with what you're doing in a moment of sleep deprivation that most of us would love to forget, becomes more emotionally charged than normal.

Moxette loved her bouncy chair, but she's always been a rather busy kid, and was never happy in one spot for long. there were nights when she slept all night in the swing. I think I never considered myself an attachment parenting type more or less b/c i never felt comfortable "wearing" the baby (i.e. the physical connection as much as possible=secure child wasn't my style) while i did other things. We put her down a lot. We let her cry (fuss).

I remember a strident argument/discussion when moxette was an infant on the difference between "cry it out" and "fuss it out." We are all about letting her fuss (which included moderate crying, too). She needed to learn through experience and practice how to sooth herself. then, there are the times when the SCREAM cry happens, and momma is up sleeping next to the bebe immediately. We've never had her sleep in our bed, or our bedroom.

You aren't alone! Come back in!

falljackets
((((aqua)))) my little guy is 11 weeks too. i probably question whether i'm doing the very best for him EVERY SINGLE DAY. i happen to think of it as a sign that we CARE about our children. don't be too hard on yourself! smile.gif

yeah, the mommas on this thread are pretty passionate about how they raise their kids - some more than others. but i think there are enough variances to show that there is no One Right Way. i agree with gren, as long as you are spending some quality time, outside of feeding time (which is more focused quality time) each day with your kiddo, you're probably doing great.

we all have different comfort levels in terms of listening to our babies cry. i happen to be one that can't take more than about 2-5 minutes, and if it's real and true crying, less than that. but that's because my son doesn't cry that often unless there is something really wrong (hungry, wet, needs to burp) so when his little frets turn to tears, i am usually there to pick him up and soothe him. but he does have his moments some evenings in which he gets so tired but doesn't want to fall asleep and is pretty much inconsolable, even with a boob (NINE!!NINE!!NINE!!). in those cases, we will usually put him in his swing and let him fuss himself to sleep, which usually takes all of thirty seconds. when that doesn't work, we'll let him cry for a couple minutes and then pick him back up and start all over with the soothing cycle.

as far as activity throughout the day, it really depends on his mood. sometimes, he is perfectly willing to hang out for 20 minutes on his own under his jungle gym or in his swing. other days, even a few minutes are too much for him and he starts fussing. i don't carry him around all day long, no, but there are plenty of days that i've not taken a shower or even thought about dinner until after mrfj gets home from work to relieve me. and, sometimes i question whether i'm not giving him enough autonomy (although he IS only 11wks).

i dunno, i guess i'm just trying to say that you have to do what is comfortable for you and your family (within reason of course!!!)

oh, and just an aside about napping in the swing: the "happiest baby on the block" guy, dr. karp, says that it is perfectly fine for baby to sleep in the swing if that is where he sleeps the best. i usually let jackaroo sleep in the swing during his daytime naps and sometimes at night too, before we actually go upstairs to bed. he sleeps in his cradle beside our bed every night and has since about 6 weeks when we took him out of our bed. when i try moving him to his crib in his room during the day, he almost always wakes up. i feel absolutely fine leaving him in his swing so he can get the rest he needs, uninterrupted. but i'm still trying to get him used to sleeping in his crib in his own room since he's quickly growing too long for the cradle!!

wow, i'm rambling again. and no, i haven't showered today. still wearing the same tank top he spit up on last night. nice, huh? speaking of last night, i am starting to think the kid has "mom-and-dad-are-getting-frisky-radar". he was hanging out in his cradle, very quietly drifting off to sleep and just as we neared the point of no return, "fret, fret, fret, whine, whine, whine". we kept going a little bit and the frets turned to cries so i rolled off the bed, scooped him up and got a mouthful of spitup down my shirt. mood. killed.
moxiegirl
ah...hence the reason moxette went straight to her own room! And, she still to this day is a massive cock-blocker. Nothing like the rebel yell...from the baby.

On the moving to his crib action...try putting his swing or his cradle IN his room. That worked wonders for us. Also, Try the whole "down to bed" thing in his room...like, bath, jammies, boob,cuddles...it will help him associate his room with sleep. Even with that, it took me a solid 45 min of post-bottle cuddles at first to get moxette to not wake up when put down. That was about age 11-12 weeks, i think. That whole period is fuzzy...
aquagirl3
Thank you for your nice responses. I guess I know that I am doing fine with him, and I definitely have plenty of one-on-one interaction with him besides feeding, and he seems happy and healthy enough. But then sometimes I get anxious when I feel like I have ignored him for too long, (even if he is asleep or perfectly content!), that he is going to feel abandoned and unloved, and not develop intellectually or something, and I am a selfish mother who cares more about organizing the pantry than I do about nurturing my baby. There is always someone out there I feel is putting in more effort than me at whatever it is, I guess, even parenting. I do feel extremely lucky that I was able to quit my job for at least this first year to be home full-time.

I'm sure when he gets older, and moves around and actually plays with things, it gets a lot more difficult to be able to do your own thing, even for short periods! I hope I have the patience when that time comes. I love him completely, which is a relief since I imagined when I was pregnant that I might not like him, and how horrible that would be. But I just don't know if I'm going to go crazy doing baby stuff all day long, especially since I have decided not to let him watch TV. (Has anyone read The Big Turn-Off?)
falljackets
yup, mox that is the plan: move his cradle to his room across the hall first. we should do that this weekend probably. then we will move to the crib. i have been getting him used to it a little by putting him in it after his approx. 6:30am wakeup, just letting him play and check out the mobile and toys while i wake up/potty/whatever. he doesn't hate it. so there's that.

eta: wow. while i was typing, he was falling asleep on my shoulder, so i decided to try him out in the crib and it worked. (for now)

eta (again): false alarm. he woke up before i hit the complete edit button. he is NOW sleeping. in his swing. rolleyes.gif
mr_falljackets
I kinda like having him in the same room. The noises he makes while he's sleeping comfort me.

/end family conference
kiss_the_fiddler
Grrrr. . . I'm so frustrated. Talked to Princess's mom and sounds like my stint with precious tyke is about up. Sis wants to have Princess back tomorrow and wants to keep her. Still working out child care (says she found one that has openings but hasn't done the paperwork req'd by the state). Sis is worried that Princess is delayed. At least she sees that. i want to support her right to parent and I want Princess to have the best possible future. I'm so frustrated. We're starting to get to sleep easier, having success with a sippy cup. Dont' want Princess to lose her progress. Grrr. . .

fiddler
moxiegirl
fiddler, that blows.

mrfj...the monitor is awesome for listening to baby noises w/o waking them with, um, our noises.

aqua- you got to take a year off! Take time for yourself whenever you can. You;d be surprised how 5 min organizing the pantry makes you better able to focus the next 10 min with the baby!

Ok, i'm flippin beat. off to slumberland.
grenadine
fiddler, sorry to hear that. are regular visits a possibility?

aqua, i'm glad you are feeling better. your first post did not sound like the words of a happy camper.

mox: hee! you lucky woman, if you have "your noises"...

---

speaking of people having anxieties about parenting, or about the difference between who we want to be as parents and who we are...the sometimes-amusing dooce has this to say about that.

which reminds me of the conversation i had with another coop parent today:

she: "bob [my husband] is away at the ottawa film festival."

me: "wow."

she: "yeah, doesn't that sound like fun."

me: "i don't know... i don't really think anything sounds like fun anymore, because it doesn't sound like fun WITH children and it isn't any fun WITHOUT them either. so i just don't really do anything."

she (after looking stunned, then reflective): "i think i know what you mean."

--

apropos of dooce's post, of the recent BF article link brouhaha, and of aqua's angst of this morning:

everyone has such different comfort levels and priorities with kids. my priority is stability, exploration, freedom to learn. this means that i necessarily acknowledge that one of my favourite things, travel, is not something i can happily or easily do with my kid(s). that doesn't mean i refuse to ever travel -- but i will go to the coast for the weekend, and i will skip one of my oldest friend's weddings because it's across the country and far from an airport and i can only get a weekend away, and i won't leave my kid (then just one) or drag him along just to go. those are my priorities. and i'm totally OK with "not doing anything" (by which i really mean adventure or travel) for a while, even though it was my life before. but it's amazing how many people expect me to apologize for not doing anything or rail against not doing anything -- in other words, to complain about the choices i've made -- which would be ridiculous.

my MIL is one example. she spends at least one weekend a month traveling for pleasure, usually more - i'd say 20 weekends a year. she has thought, since the bean's birth, that we should be willing to stick him in a car or plane for 8-10-20 hours to get somewhere for a couple of days, and she's constantly making remarks about how she "hopes someday we will let the bean get to know the joys of travel and how enriching it is" (this, from a woman who has only ever left the country when she was in her 40s for a family reunion, talking to me, a woman who went to live abroad aged less than half that, took chicken buses around central america solo in my 20s, etc.). in her world, we're not doing it right unless we do it the way she would. and many people have that argument when it comes to parenting. that's fine. but you see, i think that, instead of being angry or defensive if we're "made to feel" any certain way about our choices, we instead just need to recognise that we are the ones making our choices, including the choice to be secure in the knowledge that our choices are what's best for our families, that we have made them honestly and with integrity and to the best of our abilities, and that those who want to criticise or threaten or in any way diminish that simply cannot, without our permission. i know that each of us has encountered hurtful, and perhaps even ignorant, criticism, in our own lives, but i do not think that anything that has happened recently on our board has been shaming, judgmental, or otherwise out of bounds. and it bothers me when we come in swinging at each other because of sensitivities that come from elsewhere.

so i've been a bit disturbed by some of the ways people have been suggesting or inferring that, on this board, it's all about judgment and condemnation and not about the exchange of ideas of a bunch of individuals who have many things in common and many others that widely diverge.

i know, for example, that a lot of you may not agree with my "it's not worth doing anything" standpoint. that's fine. i won't take it personally if you post about how you went on a fifty-hour road trip and your small person loved every second of it (in fact, i wish you nothing but road trip bliss, especially poor princess with her five-hour trek coming up!). i've heard from my MIL (who took the mister on tons of road trips as a child) how enriching and wonderful and great it is to do so and how she breastfed him while he was in his carseat so they wouldn't have to stop and how those are some of her fondest memories. she is welcome to them. because in the equation of my conversations with her, there is one person who's trying to get total agreement from the other and there is another who is content to disagree. and i think i'm the happier of the two.

anyway, i hope we can have a little more perspective about things on this board, and i hope we can trust each other (not to be ill-intentioned) and ourselves (to have made the right decisions for us) a little bit more, as well. as FJ wisely said, we are a pretty passionate bunch. i like seeing that passion. it's interesting. i don't want everybody to be just like me, to agree with everything i saw, to affirm my every action. and i don't want us to be a group of people who have to tiptoe around each other because our statements of belief, preference, or choice are misinterpreted as EDICTS FROM ABOVE THAT YOU WILL GO TO HELL FOR NOT FOLLOWING.

you know?
pepper
wow, what happened in here? it's exploded with posts since last i checked! busy busy day.

gren, nice post. thank you for that.
yesterday i nursed the girl in the car on the way home from the next town over (nearest place to shop) and it will not become one of my fondest memories any time soon. can we say chiropractor? ow.
i'm fairly content to stick near the home base. i don't even feel like doing the things i used to do anymore, i want different things now. like you said, it's not really any fun without them.

yes aqua, be prepared for zero time during the toddler days. showers were out of the question for a couple of years for me. i was lucky if i could throw myself at some water and hope to get somewhat clean. ugh, good thing they're cute.
oh, and despite my best intentions i ditched the no tv rule pretty early on. it was literally the ONLY way i could safely do anything in the other room for even a minute. a movie for him, dishes for me. le sigh. i'm happy not to have one now though. with school on i only get a few ours a day with him, i miss him!

i like the nighttime noises too. the wee girl is super farty in the AM, it's adorable!!

i originally came in here to report that she has learned how to laugh on purpose. i am so in love wub.gif
moxiegirl
gren, what a thoughtful post! I'd like to add that the passionate discussions, even pointing out and exploring where our own hurtings comes from, is one of the best things about this forum. Its like free therapy!

Another night terror last night...12:30am. Poor thing. There's nothing more fundamentally MOM than a toddler CLINGING to you at 12:30AM, and immediately passing out. We spent most of the rest of the night on the sofa.

Travel for more than a couple hours is something we're holding off on, too. Our goal is 1 family vacation (substantial) and one "us" vacation every year or so. I think this winter, approaching age 2, will be good time for a family trip somewhere warm. I'm leaning towards San Diego. If we wait until the spring, then its either Portland or San Fran (we have family with kidlets in both those locales). For the "us" vacation, I think we're off to Boston in November for a week. Its our 10th Anniversary (married 3.5, together 10), and moxieman has a conference there. My folks have already offered to watch moxette (and when i say offer...i mean "you're going to Boston with moxieman, right?") Its very important to moxieman and I to retain our bond as a couple, because eventually, our kids will leave us. That's the goal, right? My mama once said to me (and I totally agree), that the point of parenting is to love your children enough so they leave you. The point of marriage (partnering) is that you love your spouse enough that they stay. That pretty much sums up our family philosophy.

Man, I hated giving the bebe bottles in the car...how on earth did you manage the boob? Does the kid stay in the carseat?


grenadine
night terrors must be going around. we had them at 11. he was bucking and screaming and crying. i did finally manage to get him quiet through my gradual "sleepytime stream of consciousness talking down technique" and then sent the mister in the remaining 2 times he awakened (minimally, and without much resistance). i'm trying to save my back for the big day.

the bean woke up and started talking like beaker from the muppets -- "mimimimi" -- which is hilarious, especially because he's never seen the muppets. his pupils are still dilated from his eye doc appointment yesterday and he looks like a club kid.

in other news, i have a more substantive contribution to this board than musings on how we can all behave better...BANANA POPSICLES. THIS, my friends, THIS is my contribution to the annals of motherhood, my one original idea, my 15 minutes of fame...
should you ever have a toddler with diarrhea/vomiting who has been subsisting on pedialyte pops, but then discovered popsicles WITH STICKS (and you know, they're so much better with sticks! once you have sticks, you'll never go back!) and still can't eat anything (but you want to force some nutrition in there, somehow):

1)cut ripe bananas in half
2)impale each half on a (washed) popsicle stick
3)freeze in a plastic bag or container.

100% natural and very satisfying.
moxiegirl
Yes, yes, yes! We do bananna/strawberry/pineapple puree, dummped into those 1/2 pop "jusicle" containers (remember from kiddiehood?).

I actually think that would be a great way to get veggies in too...V8-sicle?
grenadine
yeah...but the whole genius of the idea is that it uses the natural shape of the banana to replicate the shape of a popsicle!
life imitating art.

i don't know about v-8 sicles. that sounds vile to me, but you never know...carrot juice, on the other hand, would be awesome.
pepper
boob in the car = me leaning over her while she is buckled up in her seat. take a moment to picture this if you will. i can only laugh about how it must look from passersby.

i love those plastic popsicle things, we have about 6 of them! my favourite are the ones with the 'straw' bit on the handle so the melty juice can be sucked out instead of tipped all over the kidlet. and i think that juice that's made with veggies and fruit works AMAZING for getting extra veg into him. do you know that one, forget what it's called but it comes in tetra paks and is flavours like carrot blueberry, mango, orange etc and they all have spinach juice and the like in them. they aren't even green, totally disguised as just fruit.

ok, i just ordered over 50$ worth of fabric from reprodepot because i have to make sock monkey patterned pj's for the kids for xmas. (the fabric is under 10$/yard, yes i did get enough to make some bags too. whatever, i am a fabric whore.)
like i don't have enough to do eh? now i'm making xmas gifts. what is wrong with me?
i will post pictures. i promise.
moxiegirl
pepper...if you could stumble upon the name of that...you'd be my forever hero! Moxette LOVES juice and needs a bit each day b/c she gets constipated. Juice with spinach?!? Awesome!
anoushh
Gah, so much to say, so little time.

However (fingers and everything firmly crossed) mom is home tomorrow.

Of course, one year when she went on this trip she got stuck in Amsterdam for a few days because she was in mid-return flight when the planes hit the pentagon and the world trade center. It was pretty scary, and she couldn't even enjoy the city b/c she couldn't leave the "refugee" facility b/c no one knew when they'd be able to get on a plane and if you missed your chance, it might be a while before you got another...

She did have nothing but the highest praise for the Dutch and how they handled the situation, however. Then out of the blue she said "I think they have the right idea with prostitution." My mother--who still hasn't fully got over the fact I wasn't a virgin when I was married. Interestingly, in her absence I'd watched a documentary about how the dutch deal with social problems like this and drugs, and basically agreed. If I didn't have to learn another language we would have moved there.

Anyway, I've spent all my time on this and thus have no time left to respond to the wonderful and thoughtful posts below.
I'll just say this: Shiny, there will always be someone who thinks your parenting is "wrong." It's the ultimate "you can't please all the people all the time situation."

And I don't think there is one formula. We are all different people and our kids are too. What works like a charm for moxette doesn't necessarily work for notbob, and vice versa.

But intelligent dialogue like this sure helps.

I also think as mothers we feel guilty for everything all the time. I do, at least on some level. So it's easy to project our own feelings of guilt onto others in the form of reading criticism into a situation where there isn't any.

Not bob has had what I think are night terrors pretty much from birth.
anoushh
Doh--I meant to answer your question, Gren. MsP posted here more in the past, mostly in Kvetch, I think. Anyway, she's just had a baby and I'm thrilled b/c I think she's just swell.

pepper
here it is
Sun-Rype fruit plus veggies
can you get that in the states? it's here in canada Everywhere, even walmart. hope you can get it, it's very tasty. the carrot blueberry is kind of swirly sparkly too, so pretty. oh, and cheap. it's like 2$ per.

sneak parsley into stuff if you can, it's SUPER nutrient dense. like pureed into soup or juice a bit with apple, pear, cucumber, carrot etc. i sprinkle it everywhere and little is just used to seeing he, he doesn't usually balk.
i use a lot of zucchini too, it is practically flavourless when added to stuff. zucchini bread, zucchini banana bread, peel it and grate it into oatmeal, pasta, soup (raw even). i am not kidding, you can't tell it's in there at all.
a friend of mine (with 3 girls under the age of 6!!) purees veg into pasta and pizza sauce. i mean it's mostly veg by the time she's done with it. great, huge chunks of cauliflower, broccoli (great way to use up the peeled stalks instead of tossing them), mushrooms, carrots, etc. she uses Everything! that would work in soup too. i'm thinking that i could use up veg that has to go like this. puree it all raw together and freeze it in a cube tray for throwing into sauce and soup. less waste, less work, more secret veggie dishes! clever mommy.
do you think papa could be fooled like that too? hmm, worth a try.
moxiegirl
hmmm...i just looked that company up, and seems to be canada only. there has to be something similar in the states. Next time you visit the D, we should get together...and you can trade that for...oh, a Coney?

pepper
hee! i'll bring you every flavour i can find when i next get over there. and i could send some with my mom if you'd pick it up at her place in livonia in the meantime? i don't know when we're heading over there again, i have a trip to toronto upcoming and canadian thanksgiving is just around the corner too. we missed the Whole summer at their place, didn't get to swim in the pool even once sad.gif
grenadine
i like to think of the parenting involvement/love as the "runaway bunny continuum." i remember loving the story when i was a child, and the bean adores it now. but reading it as an adult, it's hard not to think that the mother sounds like a clingy,busybody, overinvolved, stalker mom with no life of her own. in other words -- when they're little, they want you to be everywhere they are. when they grow up, you have to realise that they are ready for more freedom. in my experience, many mothers either have trouble a)being present enough and engaged enough when the children are tiny or b)letting go when the children grow up. (or maybe it's just that's what i see in my own family. my own mother is definitely a better mother of adults, and my MIL still wants to see the mr naked, talk about his bowel movements, etc. etc.)

the bean now has a cold, probably from the sneezing, runny-nosed girl at coop on thursday. gah. timing! and i'm feeling kind of funky myself. things might be happening, but if they're not, we're going to take steps to jump-start things tonight. judging from my backache, though, we might not have to...

ugh. i am beginning to suspect that for me labour is just like amoebic dysentery/really bad stomach flu.

anoushh, hope the return of your mom is a relief.


shinyx3
lil has a stuffy nose sad.gif i hope it resolves itself quickly. he seems to feel fine. he is too young to get sick. i am not ready for him to get sick (i know, i never will be ready, but he is only 6.5 weeks old). so far i don't think he is in need of anything other than sleep and lots of snuggle up time. hopefully we can get through this quickly.
grenadine
some really interesting strategies to optimize the health of formula-fed babies are here.

be aware that the site as a whole is strongly in favour of breastfeeding (while not alarmist or propagandist). this article, though, is pretty practical and contains a lot of info i didn't know about formulas and how babies' nutritional needs on them can be met (e.g. earlier solids as a concept, which is discouraged for breastfeeding babies).
shinyx3
wow, interesting article. thanks grenadine. some of the things i am already doing. we started on probiotics already and we have quality time with feeds and i am partial to the skin on skin contact with lil. he is so sweet when he is all curled up on my chest or stomach and he is alway so easy to calm that way so i know he likes it too.

we almost went to the er tonight because of a fever of 101. i gave tylenol and called a friend of mine that is an er doc and i will just watch him really closely. it will be a long night though. i will take him in to the clinic my friend works at tomorrow morning though justs because i worry.
moxiegirl
shiny- do you have a pediatrician? (gulp for littleone). The first time moxette was sick, we called him at 2am. Any baby that young with a fever should be seen by a doc...you DON'T worry too much!!

Tylenol, bulb syringe and saline solution. And lots of cuddles.
anoushh
Well, mom is back (after a nasty delay) but she's very sick, which sucks in a number of ways.

Good thing I have childcare arranged for this week. Not enough, but some. That doesn't make her feel any better, but it's something.

Shiny, Notbob was sick at that age, in spite of all our precautions, and it was so heart wrenching. My sympathies.

I agree--interesting article. We are/were doing most of that, but event the stuff we didn't do was interesting to know about.

Notbob was ready for solid food earlier than I expected him to be. Sounds like it was the right thing.

I had dreams about labor as my friend who was due in 4 weeks went into labor yesterday. I have had a sneaking suspicion her due date was wrong anyway. I hope it all goes well. I've been worried about her doctor. She wanted to go to the birth center, but her husband is SO conventional and doesn't think about these things, just goes with some gut feeling that isn't based on anything but what is most common. The mister got angry about this--"It's not his decision!" Bless him.

Anyway, her doc was talking induction and c-section weeks ago. Not for reasons like pre-eclampsia, etc, that would make it obvious, but for stupid reasons, like her conviction that my friend's pelvis was "too small"--which is not something you can know ahead of time--and nice way to undermine her confidence in her ability to give birth--and her weight gain. I would have changed pracitioners, but not my decision.

shinyx3
yes we have a ped. i called last night and spoke to his on call line (triage nurse) who doesn't know me at all. she reprimanded me for giving tylenol and said to take him to the er. i called my friend who is an er doc and she said as long as his fever responded to tylenol he was not having other symptoms that i had done the right thing as that is what they would do for him in the er as well. so i sat up with him last night. very long night. i should mention that i am a pediatric and neonatal specialized respiratory therapist and have worked ped icu and ped er in a large hospital so i do have know what i should be checking and watching for. i sometimes think i am more cared though because of that. it certainly did not help me be less worried.

i am on my own though for staying up with him so i am pretty tired. hubby is here but is working like a mad man till oct 11th. so doesn't get up with him at all. he is leaving town for work this coming wed. and will be oot for two weeks. i really hope we are all well here and i am not trying to take care of a sick baby and a 10yo (who takes alot of driving around during the week for all the various activities) and one very tired mommy.
moxiegirl
Gulp! Shiny, what a bitchy triage nurse! Our Ped answers all on call calls himself, and always sounds happy to do so. It was a given that when moxieman would go out of town, moxette would get SICK. Poor shiny family. How's the little one doing today?
shinyx3
still eating like usual so not too bad. i am still gonna take him in to my friend just for my reassurance though. oh my am i tired!
kiss_the_fiddler
shiny y lil are in the hosp with lil on antibiotics. wish them luck.

fiddler
moxiegirl
((((Shinylil))) poor kidlet. Poor mama.

I was gonna go on and on about my big girl, but will just be thankful she's healthy and happy.
grenadine
here's hoping shiny and lil are home safe soon.

meanwhile...
verena was born saturday night! her nickname is already "crabber" because she looks totally irritated every time she poops, which is about every five minutes. we got to go home early in part because she had already pooped six or seven times in twelve hours (they often take longer). the bean thinks she's very interesting and is, so far, very gentle with her...he's got the tail end of a bad cold, though, and i really hope she doesn't get it. i seem to be getting it, so hopefully my antibodies will keep her safe (because eat is the other thing she does every five minutes).
she seems TINY to me (she was 6lb 13 oz). i guess i forgot.

oh, and i tore in exactly the same place. i just love feeling like every time i sit down it's on a balloon of pain. bleah.

anyway, we may be sporadic around here, but wanted to say HI!
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