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grenadine
anoushh, that is the veriest crap. good for you for changing peds -- i hope you find a good one.

the mister apparently didn't talk until he was two and his grandmother (a kindergarten teacher) was freaking out about how he might be retarded. now, i am married to him, and even though i occasionally claim otherwise, i'm really pretty sure he's not retarded.

one of my favourite coworkers told me that neither of her daughters walked until they were TWO. and she was totally cool with it, like "yeah! they were so physically mellow! they didn't even walk until they were two!" (she said it in the context of watching the bean run around when he was one-ish and marveling at how differently kids develop, though for the record i don't think the bean is especially advanced in terms of large motor stuff like walking). i thought her attitude was great; she seemed to celebrate how they were rather than bemoaning it. and there is NOTHING worse than parents who are competitive with other parents or, worse, who berate their kids for not developing "on schedule."

speaking of developing on time, the crabber is now five weeks old and has had a grand total of maybe five minutes of "tummy time." between her constant nursing and constant barfing, plus the fact that she sleeps a lot, who can fit it in? smile.gif guess she won't roll over 'til she's thirty...
bustygirl
What are you all calling "talk"? Is it communicating with you or just saying words? I ask because little Eddie is now 25 months old and still doesn't use words much for asking what he wants. He says a lot of things, but they're things like dog and kitty and meow and oh no and okay and no no no. They aren't bottle or eat or up or down or binky or anything that tells us what he wants when he's upset. I'm 75% sure he's fine and developing normally, but it does bother me a little when we can't communicate with him.
grenadine
busty, i've known several boys like that. they all turned out fine. my friend's kid barely spoke until 26 mo. and then in three months his language exploded.

also:
ignore, ignore, ignore...
pepper
what the f-ing goddamn hell?! this is the thread that people who actually gave birth post in! why why WHY the eff would someone post gory fake abortion pictures in here? and why the EFF would i actually LOOK?! what is wrong with some people?

whew. ok, little didn't talk a lot until later on but that can be very normal for boys. they can be so much more interesting in mastering physical skills that the language takes a back seat. busty have you tried any signing with him? that can be helpful.

this teensy girl talks like crazy, so much gobble-dee-gook but such tongue dexterity and the sounds, whoo-wee, she's all over the place! i think she might be an early talker, she super vocal.

i'm gonna post pics of our halloween in say cheese. did you guys have fun? ours was terrific!
moxiegirl
how do i do ignore again? i'm a tech-no-phobe.
grenadine
click on the avatar and then choose "view profile." from that screen you can choose to ignore user.

the bean's latest: "Christmas is Television!"

ha ha. so true. they were putting up the santas the day before halloween in our local store.
moxiegirl
you have a wise obi-wan there, gren.

We had an action-packed weekend...moxieman is off to boston for a week, and yesterday we stayed at my folk's place. Moxette helped pack boxes (they're moving in 2 weeks), and generally had a lovely time of things. The time change didn't go over so well this morning, but, I think a few days of "no, honey, its still sleepy time" will be the ticket. That, and I got the OK from the pediatrician to use some expectorant for moxette's hacking cough. Its SO CLOSE to being a really productive cough...just needs a little help. I'm fine with calling the Dr., getting a recommendation, and proceeding per directed. He's the one with the medical liscense, after all.

Annoush- you should absolutly, 100% find a new doctor. That is total crap about notbob talking or NOT at 1 year old. Every dr. visit (sick and well), I ask the dr. about whether moxette's use of signing and the point-and-grunt is OK or whether we should be worried that by 12, 15, 18 mos she wasn't a total chatterbox with a thousand word vocab. Each time, he said "she tells you what she wants by pointing...she clearly hears you and ignores you on command". I.E. she has language, and just is stubborn about using words...the SAME way she was about turning over, crawling, walking, etc. He followed up with "I don't worry about speaking intelligible words until age 2." Well, now at 19 mos, she's a total word mimic, and is putting simple sentences together, etc. He will speak whenever he speaks. He's clearly a well developed, well cared for child.
aquagirl3
Also, didn't you say he was signing? I am interested in doing signing with my baby and I read that often signers will be a little later with their intelligible spoken words, because they are communicating better than non-signers do before talking, so they have a degree of comfort that sometimes prolongs speaking words (only by a little). Some people see this as a negative of signing. (Not me. I am excited to sign with him!)
pepper
xposted in the other mama's thread.

Ok, I'm forwarding this to everyone so they don't make the same mistake. These burns were caused by a Magic Eraser sponge. The mom in this case let her kids erase their crayon marks off the walls and never even thought the sponges would have this kind of chemical in them that would cause this kind of burn or even hurt them. Learn from her mistake. Pass this along to anyone who has kids or grandchildren.

The photo is of Kolby - 24 hours after being burned by a Magic Eraser sponge. It was much worse the day before.

Here is the email we received -
One of my five year old's favorite chores around the house is cleaning scuff marks off the walls, doors, and baseboards with either an Easy Eraser pad, or the real deal, a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser. I remember reading the box, wond ering what the 'Magic' component was that cleaned crayon off my walls with ease. No ingredients were listed and absolutely no warnings were on the box, other than 'Do not ingest.'

My package of the Scotchbrite Easy Erasers didn't have a warning either; and since my child knew not to eat the sponges and keep them out of reach of his little brother and sister, it was a chore I happily let him do.

If I had known that both brands (and others like them) contain a harmful alkaline or 'base' chemical (opposite of acid on the pH scale) that can burn your skin, I never would have let my little boy handle them. As you can see from the picture, when the Scotchbrite Easy Eraser was rubbed against his face and chin, he received severe chemical burns.

At first, I thought he was being dramatic. I picked him up, put him on the counter top and washed his face with soap and water. He was screaming in pain. I put some lotion on his face - more agony. I had used a Magic Eraser to remove magic marker from my own knuckles a while back and I couldn't understand why he was suddenly in pain. Then, almost immediately, the large, shiny, blistering red marks started to spread across his cheeks and chin.

I quickly searched Google.com for 'Magic Eraser Burn' and turned up several results. I was shocked. These completely innocent looking white foam sponges can burn you?

I called our pediatrician, and of course got sent to voice mail. I hung up and called the hospital and spoke to an emergency room nurse. She told me to call Poison Control. The woman at Poison Control said she was surprised no body had sued these companies yet and walked me through the process of neutralizing the alkaline to stop my son's face from continually burning more every second.


I had already, during my frantic phone calling, tried patting some numbing antibiotic cream on his cheeks, and later some Aloe Vera gel - both resulted in screams of pain. The Poison Control tech had me fill a bathtub with warm water, lay my son into it, cover him with a towel to keep him warm and then use a soft washcloth to rinse his face and chin with cool wate r for a continuous 20 minutes. My son calmed down immediately. He told me how good it felt. I gave him a dose of Tylenol and after the twenty minutes was up, he got dressed in his Emergency Room doctor Halloween costume and off we went to the hospital. They needed to make sure the chemical burn had stopped burning, and examine his face to determine if the burn would need to be debrided (from my fuzzy recollection of hospital work, this means removing loose ti ssue from a burn location). My son was pretty happy at the hospital, they were very nice and called him 'Doctor' and let him examine some of their equipment. The water had successfully stopped the burning and helped soothe a lot of the pain. I'm sure Tylenol was helping too.

They sent us home with more Aloe Vera gel, Polysporin antibiotic cream, and some other numbing creams. By the time we got home, my son was crying again. I tried applying some of the creams but he cried out in pain. Water seemed to be what worked the best.

After a rough night, I took the above photo in the morning. He was swollen and wouldn't move his lips very much. The skin on his cheeks was taut.

Today he is doing much better. The burns have started to scab over, and in place of red, raw, angry, skin we have a deeper red, rough healing layer. I can touch his skin now, without it stinging.

If you are a parent or grandparent, this post is meant to save your loved ones from the horror these parents went through. Please share it with other parents, grandparents, babysitters , aunts and uncles ~ anyone you know who spends time with kids.


(i couldn't attach the pics but they were AWFUL!)
moxiegirl
I wear gloves when I use those things. They are magical...but the chemicals hurt me...much less a wee one! I guess the wisdom is to look before you leap!
grenadine
there are so many hidden toxins. one thing that never fails to amaze me is the "flubber" so many daycare centers and preschools make, which contains borax, which is toxic (and how many times have you seen a kid eat play-dough or flubber?
pepper
there's some talk of this being an urban legend but the following is a picture from a regular poster on another mama i site i visit. it's her daughters arm after contact with a magic eraser. she said it was like this for a month.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/cubs...aser-burn-2.jpg
lapis
Hi Mamas, Motherhood has taken me away from the boards for the last couple of weeks. After 42 hrs of labor, I have finally recovered, stitches and all. Now my little one is peacefully sleeping--she's been calm enough to freak out the boyfriend's mom who only seems to appreciate babies on the verge of spontaneous combustion. She would frown when my babe wouldn't cry during diaper changes and smile every time she cried--um, are these strange reactions? (Support in terms of dealing with family members with strong opinions/opposing value systems is something I would like to talk about if people are interested.) So we seem to have minimized something looking like colic, intermittent, all-night screaming episodes during pooping and gassy moments, with gripe water. And I had to stop drinking milk--replaced it with hemp milk--anyone try that? Tasty! Hope it's going great for you.
Also, did your babies' eyes change color? Hers are blue and we were all born with brown eyes--can't deal with the suspense even though it doesn't matter cause she's unstoppably gorgeous!
pepper
TONS of beebees are born with blue eyes, they may change later on.

talk about whatever you need to, we're here for you.

your mil sounds a bit funny, maybe she's forgotten what a real baby is like? it's been a while for her i'm sure.
my little girl never cries either, it does freak people out a little. meh, too bad, it makes me happy!
grenadine
yeah...most white babies are born with blue/grey eyes, and they often do change. my baby girl has blue-grey eyes. her brother was born the same and his have stayed that colour, which shocked me because i expected brown like me or green like the mister. i don't know what this little girl is going to do.

my MIL also seems not to mind when the baby's crying, though i wouldn't say she prefers it -- she doesn't seem to care either way. i find this unfathomable because their crying drives me nuts! sounds like yours, lapis, just is expecting the baby to be like her babies. i know that i'm always surprised that miss v. HATES having a poopy diaper and cries inconsolably until it's changed, because the bean didn't really care if he was a little poopy. so maybe it's something like that.
moxiegirl
goodness gren...then your miss V would be the bigget crier in the world over here! We are in the midst of a poop, runny gross, yellow sinky poop factory week. 3+Moxette kids in her class have a wicked stomach bug. Ugh. We finally have her on the pedialyte and crackers regimine. I hope it helps...and, moxieman is SICK with a headcold. Sigh...I can't wait for him to get better, so I can go take a night off, all by myself. Through bedtime. I f-ing deserve it.

Ok, both my sickies are sleeping...and the pumpkin bread is almost done, so I'm off for a nap, too.
anoushh
Notbob is like that--not much tolerance for poo. Can't say that I blame him.

His eyes were blue when he was born and I was in part convinced they would change b/c I couldn't imagine having a blue eyed baby, and in part I knew they wouldn't turn completely brown. In fact, they didn't change at all. He's a blue eyed strawberry blond (whereas I am typical Armenian coloring with olive skin, dark hair and dark eyes.)

My MIL is about 8000 miles away, so I have little contact with her on the issues of day to day parenting. I think it's just a well as though she's really a nice woman, she's extremely forceful in her reserved English way, and has very strong opinions. She also was the recipient of some pretty bad parenting herself. While I think she did ok with her own children, I feel like she only knows her own experience, and besides, the woman is 80 years old--that was a long time ago.

She was convinced, you could tell, that we were being too "careful" with notbob around his sleeping. "I thought you were supposed to get babies used to the normal sounds of daily living" she said when we asked them to keep the noise down when we finally got the young man to sleep (and it was always an ordeal to get him to sleep, even more than normal, on our trip, considering the change of time and complete change of environment.)

Well, that's nice to say, but how is that supposed to happen? First of all, nothing around there was "normal" for him. Second, some babies sleep through anything, some wake at the least sound. Notbob is in many ways a classic "high need" baby in the Dr. Sears term. He is who he is--we can't magically change his temperament.

I know if we were around all the time this would be a constant battle. Thankfully, we aren't. At least I don't get that from my mom. In part that's because we live with them and she sees exactly what kind of kid he is, but also I think she's better at understanding babies in general. She's not a lot younger than MIL--about 10 or 12 years--but it's enough, too.

Everyone's going to have an opinion on your parenting. But you are your kid's only mom and you know your kid better than anyone, so keep that in mind.

Which leads me to something else I've been thinking about a lot lately. I spent a fair amount of time (honestly, way too much time) comparing myself to other mothers and thinking I fall short. Way short, sometimes. "WHy doesn't she seem as stressed out as I am? Why does it all seem so easy for her? I must be a bad mom and just not have enough patience/tolerance/stamina/etc..."

Then whenever I get him around other kids his age, like we did this weekend for a birthday party, I am always sort of stunned to see how easy other babies seem compared to him. He is so BUSY all the time, very demanding, into EVERYTHING, persistent, intense, supersensitive, doesn't sleep well, always moving, etc, etc, etc. There were so many specific examples of things that I'd never get away with with notbob. The birthday girl was in her highchair and she ate her food then was content to just sit there for a while. He's never allow that. He's start to fuss and then cry if he wasn't taken out right away when he was done. That's one of about a million examples.

So in a way I come away reassured that I'm not a crap parent. On the other hand I think "why me?" I know he's a really smart kid. I know that someday this energy and drive could serve him very well. But I do miss having a calm life, and being able to do, well, just about anything for myself. And it's so completely different from my nature, which is much more cautious, deliberate, etc.

We've changed peds, btw. I've not met the new one yet, but got tons of recommendations from coworkers, other moms, etc, and almost all pointed to this one, so I'll give it a go. It's in the same group of doctors but at a different site, so transferring was easier, it's closer to us, and it's central so should be easy to access from where ever we end up.

Also in a brainstorm we decided to give him zantac again about 24 hours ago. The clues finally added up and it clicked that he was awfully darn fussy more and more these days, and it seems to have really helped. He'll still be extremely, um, dynamic, but if he can do it without whining all the time it's better for everyone. (And mostly he's not a whiny kid, so we knew something was up when he was getting progressively more whiny and unhappy. Demanding, yes, but mostly happy and not whiny.)
car
I too have a blue eyed, strawberry blonde kiddo (and another hazel eyed one) despite two dark-hair, dark eyed parents! Go figure, eh?

I'll say that as a parent of more than one, not only do you make yourself nuts comparing yourself to other moms/kids, you spend a lot of time (even when you concsiously remind yourself not to) comparing kid to kid. Coop was speaking in full sentences, with clear prononciation and could recognize/site read his letters by 18 months. Meanwhile, Bones says about 10-15 words total, most of which are only intelligible by me or his dad.

I am about to start a new job....I'm excited about the job itself, but not about going back to work full time after having 3 months home w/my boys. We knew the job thing was inevitable, as our finances dictated that by January I would have had to find a job, any job, or we'd be in serious trouble. So I found one that I was definitely interested in, and even though the time line is shorter than I had originally hoped, I realized that if I have to leave my kids all day I'd rather do it sooner for a job that would make me happy than later for a job that I felt bitter and resentful about.

The kids are about to start new full-time day care - first time ever (they used to have an in-our-home sitter, and have occasionally been to a back up day care) and we'll have to get new routines to get us all up, dressed, fed and out the door in the morning (by myself, as my husband leaves at 6:30 am and doesn't get home until 7:30 pm). I'm stressing, but hoping it will all work out ok.

My biggest worry is that Bones is in an aggressive phase - he throws toys, shoves people and occasionally bites. We are working on it actively, and I know it is the frustration of having such great receptive language but so little expressive language. I'm hoping as his words keep coming, he'll stop with the physical stuff. But I fear that he will be the bully of day care, and hope the structure will help him learn better ways to express himself. My nephew (who has some severe behavioral issues) was kicked out of kindergarten (at a very progessive liberal school) so I always worry about what i would do if my kid were expelled from day care! On the spectrum I know that Bones is no where near my nephew, but who says that Momma worry is rational?

As for the Magic Eraser thing, my MIL sent me that email about a year ago....I freaked and did a lot of research. Apparently that is an amalgam of several anectodes, but was not proven as a result of magic eraser (those photos were not the person referred to in the emails). Since this first came out, they have changed some of the ingredients on the Magic Eraser and added warnings to the boxes. So I guess it is partially true and partially inflated Urban Myth...either way, very scary.
grenadine
i am convinced that there's some grand design in the universe that gives those of us who are rigid and inflexible and intolerant (and yes, i mean me) exactly the challenges with our kids that we most dread (and need).

in other news, the bean started sobbing hysterically yesterday. i ran into his room and he raised a red, tearful face to me and wailed, "I BONKED MY EGO!"

wow. you sure did, buddy.

(lest i gross y'all out by being so cosmic, let me just add that the reason i am, and the reason i'm being unusually pithy, is that i'm in a massive Down on the Spouse period.)

congrats on the new job, car! very good that it's a job you can get excited about!
anoushh
"I bonked my ego!"

I'm going to remember that phrase. I think it will come in especially useful if I ever resume direct clinical work with clients....

(What did he mean?)

Also, I'm going to keep that principle of challenges we need and dread in mind with notbob. It pretty much started from the labor and it hasn't stopped from that point.

Car, I was just thinking about you. I can never manage LJ, so I'm always glad to see you around here. I'm glad you got a job you are excited about. And good advice about the comparisons, as usual. I know it's true, but it's so hard not to, isn't it?

You always have something wise and/or interesting to say, gren. And if it weren't for you I would never have learned the origin of the word "grenade" (Ok, at least not until I saw it later on Cash Cab.)

So, I'm not a crap parent, right? Sometimes you just need to hear it.
grenadine
you're a great parent. you and notbob will laugh about what a trial he was when he's 25.

he meant "i bonked my ego!" he was very clear about it, and the bean is a very definite speaker. the best i can figure out is he saw some adult trip and hurt him/herself, then when offered condolences, say "i mostly hurt my ego," or something like that. you know how adults say that sometimes? so when he hurt himself similarly...

anyway, anoushh has just supplied me with the epithet for my tombstone (if i were going to have a tombstone instead of being donated and/or composted and/or cremated): "Wise. And/or interesting."

hee.

oh, and people keep claiming the crabber will have brown eyes and black hair to make up for the bean's pulling all his genes from the aryan nations. despite the fact that she has, currently, light brown hair and blue-grey eyes. whatever. at least she has my last name.
anoushh
Thank you.

And of course he meant that. I shouldn't have doubted him.

On the subject of composting bodies, I was in the UK when I read the great book by Mary Roach called "Cadaver" about various things that happen to bodies. Imagine my surprise when I came across this:

http://tinyurl.com/3y97w5

The high school science teacher mentioned is the father of the girl who was my very best friend growing up. I saw her for the first time in years several weeks ago. Turns around she lives around the corner from her parents, and as I live with my parents, neither of us is far from where we started at the moment. She's pregnant with a second child, and wondered at my insistence I was only having one. A few minutes with her child, along with the report that at 13 months she was taking a three hour afternoon nap, made it clear as to why it seemed no big deal to her to have two.

Also, in more unrelated news, I love my office but for one thing. There is LOUD music coming from somewhere that we can't figure out and it's very distracting/annoying/frustrating.

And it is getting worse/louder/more frequent. I hate whoever is responsible. A lot.
grenadine
you could always blast back something really bizarre, like weird al yankovic's greatest hits or, perhaps, a bill hicks stand-up recording (bill hicks should be enough to put the fear of god in anyone).

"it's something on the order of what they do with chipped beef..." BWA HA HA!

lest we get too inflated in our self-importance, we humans... smile.gif
lapis
ok I'll get over the eye color thing--it will just be whatever. As for the MIL, I wonder if you all have had confrontations about different values. I mean she is saving up for the trip to disney before wiggles can walk. And I don't want to be a buzzkill but I am not really into conspicuous consumption of the disney/american girl doll sort and don't know how to handle it without smashing in grandma's fantasies. Anoushh, i guess you've pointed you that parents really do know what babe needs, not grandparents.
grenadine
i have the same conflicts with my in-laws. i have learned that it's best not to get into a broad-based "i think disney is evil" thing and instead only address relevant issues as they come up. so if, in five years, they try to take the bean to disneyland (as they did the mister), i will just genially suggest that they consider a NYC museum tour or a hiking trip. the subtext will, of course, be YOU'RE TAKING MY KID TO DISNEYLAND/WORLD/HELL OVER MY DEAD BODY, but since there's no converting them to my values i find it more expedient, and less alienating to them, to just deal with it as it comes.

the mister gets to listen to all my philosophical convictions, though. that's his privilege (or cross to bear). smile.gif
moxiegirl
When moxette got a "Princesses" lunchbox for her first birthday from grandma...I mentally flipped out. We had tried really hard not to imprint
"gender" specific things into toys or shows or books yet. TWe still do...and yet she wants to be just like Mommy...I love to cook, so she has to cook...I do the floors, so she does the floors.

Then, I started thinking that when i was a little girl, I LOVED disney and princesses and sesame street and grover (oh, mostly grover!...that furry blue wondermonster) and I still read Thoreau and "Little House" and Great Works of LIterature as I grew. Somehow my parents tempered the Regan-shop-til-you-drop ethos with "Time" magazine and plenty of imagination. I still ended up knowing that a little house that suits my family and meets my needs and a car that isn't HUGE and a job that sustains the city I love are the important things in life. So, I chose to enjoy her childhood, and provide balance to the overt consumerism wherever we could. So, for "Disney" movies...we're doing "Monsters, Inc." and "Nemo", not Cinderella. Maybe someday we will, and if she ends up being a cheerleader/cool girl (highly unlikely..I see drama club in this kid's future), then she's still my baby and will be her own woman whether I like it or not.

Gren...if the grandparents want to take the kids to a place YOU don't like, but really isn't all that bad (honestly, its fun...not as much fun as the zoo, I might think, but fun), let them. Just suggest it be a grandparent-grandkids trip. I'm a firm believer in grandparents-are-special.
grenadine
now that i have a daughter, i understand firsthand the preponderance of princess imagery, mox. it's like an addictive serum they put in the grandparents' water! wink.gif my mother, who dressed me in my brother's hand-me-downs until i was ten, actually showed up when i was pregnant with several pink outfits! i was like, what? are you my stepford mom?

there are plenty of things i wouldn't do that i'll allow the grandparents to do. miniature golf, for example, which i find abhorrent, but which at least involves minimal travel/time commitment. many movies, another example -- this hasn't come up yet, but they're voracious consumers of pretty much every popular movie and will definitely take the bean to that kind of thing when he's older. whatever. if that's their idea of QT, and it is, then i can't keep it all out.

the disneylands, however, might be a bit much. i do think they're all that bad, in terms of the attitudes and underlying assumptions about entertainment, consumerism, exploitation of passive market, use of resources, iconography of "heroism," highly processed visuals, foods, entertainment, messages, etc. etc. (i'm sure many people don't feel that disney is all that bad, and that's fine; those people are the reason disney is successful, and that is their privilege.) there are also the desires of the child to consider... mostly i think that if i'm doing my job well it's unlikely that my kids will want to go to such a place. i didn't, when i was a child; i remember my best friend going to disneyland when i was ten or so, and my reaction was "why?" -- i felt even then that unprocessed experiences of imagination and unprogrammed amusements were both more fun and less toxic.

which is not to say i don't indulge in cheap and toxic amusements myself, now and then. but i do prefer to keep the junk food part of the inevitable flow of letting in everyday life with its flotsam and jetsam, rather than making a special pilgrimage to have a complete junk week (or few days). but that's just me. we can all have our own opinions on disney.

but anyway, i used to try to explain my position to the in-laws, and i have since come to the conclusion that there's no need. and i do feel that if i do my job as a parent well, it's unlikely that my children will be as gung-ho as many of their peers on that. and if, for whatever reason, the bean is convinced that disney is an experience he absolutely must have, then i think at a certain point that's his choice to make. i hope he doesn't, but i'm not in charge of his life. i feel this is true not only about disney and its carnival of plastic joy, but about every life/experiential choice he will have to make (and there are so many, and to hope that i will agree with all of them is a bit naive...). oh well. more life lessons for me.
pepper
QUOTE(grenadine @ Nov 16 2007, 11:37 AM) *
carnival of plastic joy


*snort*

same boat for me. disney is the devil in my eyes. insidious consumerism and other negative messages to the developing mind. that's pretty predictable from the girl who loathes tv though, eh?

to each their own, of course.
anoushh
I'm constantly dismayed by all the "princess" stuff and its like, as well as the reverse for boys. My baby is only one year old. He doesn't need everything (or frankly anything) he owns to be covered in superheros, trucks, and monsters. Oh, and camouflage. I almost forgot that one as I'd tried to block it out of my memory.

In just a brief trip to the UK it was clear that it's not so bad there, or, I suspect, in Europe. Quel surprise.

I don't know if anyone I know who'd be likely to be giving notbob gifts would do the pink frillies (maybe MIL) but as you point out, it's surprising. Anyway, it was one of many reasons I didn't want to know the sex of our baby before it was born. If no one knows it's a boy or girl, you don't get stereotypical stuff. At least not before they are born.

I did always suspect that if I had a girl she'd love pink frillies. I always, always hated that stuff as a kid and still do. It would be one of those "life lessons" to adjust to for me. If notbob likes the pink frillies that wouldn't be quite so bad, but I still hate them.

I think I'm a lot like you in much of my approach to the world, gren, but I did indeed love going to Disneyland as a kid. We went rarely, on the way to visit relatives in Arizona, and it also broke up the monotony of the trip. While part of me really wanted a mouse ear hat the other part of me knew my parents would never buy one, and I never remember not understanding the idea of it being too expensive, or essentially a waste of money. I think that--that whole idea of refusing to be drawn into the whole overwhelming, soul-sucking experience helped keep it fun, and in it's place.

I'm not going to go out of my way to take notbob, though. In fact, I hope to never have any reason to subject him to either southern California or Florida. (If we have a chance to go to Tokyo Disneyland I might be up for that, however.)

I totally agree with the not wasting too much time or energy trying to explain the details/intricacies of your life philosophy to people who really don't care and aren't going to understand anyway. It's part of the pick your battles approach. (Witness my dismal failure to have any kind of satisfactory conversation with my father in response to his questions "why did you decide not to get notbob circumcised?" The problem for me starts with the question. Why not ask, to someone who did, "why did you decide to mutilate your child?")

I too loved Grover and am dismayed at his sidelining in favor of hyperactive and screaming Elmo.

I have a question. I've just dropped notbob off at daycare and of course he was fine--even happy--until I went to leave when he started sobbing. He only goes once a week at the moment, for a few hours. Is this making it harder for him-ie, he doesn't go enough to get used to it? Is it just inevitable at his age?

PS--I thought that by coming earlier to work today I'd discovered the secret of the annoying music--that it doesn't start until later. Apparently "later" only means until about 9:30. I was here last night until almost 7pm and it never fucking stopped!
It's getting worse, too. Now the dance club music is being joined on occasion by what sounds like nihilist German film score music.

Arrggh.
grenadine
anoushh, we had the same problem with the bean when he was just one year old. really, i don't think he was ready in general -- i just dropped him off at playschool and he was thrilled -- but i do think that 2x/week for shorter times works better for very young children that 1x/week, just because it can become more of their routine.

i hate the truck/machinery/camo thing in boys' clothes. we do have some -- we dress the bean almost entirely in hand-me-downs, after all -- but i also have candy-striped tights, which he loves, and some other really "girly" things that i think are great and that i can see some people pausing at, like, "uh...what is the gender of your child??" but the bean likes them and i don't think there's problem with gender ambiguity. look at prince --- if The Purple One can be androgynous and successful, why not my kid smile.gif ?

i like LA to visit for a variety of reasons, the getty, the dim sum, and the country's only museum of asian american history, with a great permanent exhibit on the japanese internment, being three. so i will subject the bean to SoCal. but really, why go to disneyland just to wait in eternal lines while giant dolls dance by you? you could do that on the ten freeway. or at venice beach, minus the lines!
anoushh
first appt with the new ped. Liked her and don't think we'll have any problems with her, bu notbob needed a bloodtest.

Oh the trauma. He got suspicious when they tied the stretchy thing around his arm, then started to cry. I did too after not too long, in spite of my determination not to for his sake. Thankfully he couldn't see me, so I'm not sure he noticed. Oh my god was that hard. He was ok w/in a couple of minutes after, though, and was very happy when he got something to eat when we got to the car (he'd been signing "eat, eat" over and over, but I was stupid and didn't have anything with me. I didn't know I'd have to wait for a million years at the lab.)

I, however, may have nightmares tonight.
pepper
oh honey, i am so sorry. i nearly cried myself when you said you cried. when little broke his arm the whole night was nearly the end of me! it's so hard to see them hurting no matter how neccessary. ouchy.
anoushh
Sobbed might be a more apt description.

I know any mom goes through that, and I'm lucky it's not for anything life threatening, etc, but not fun.

Anyway, I knew this:

Lack of sleep makes it harder to loose "baby weight."

You'd think with all the running after him I do...

(and yes, I know that's a cliche.)
grenadine
well, there's good documentation that lack of sleep makes you heavier (i know i eat more when i'm sleep-deprived, and i remember many nights in college when king-sized bags of m&m's were consumed), so that makes total sense.

and ouch, the pain. we're going to have to have shots soon and i'm not looking forward to it (although i have to say i'm less bothered now than i was with the bean...getting used to it, i guess).
pepper
no shots for us. aside from the other reasons i don't, i'm just happy about no poking. though i do have to get her blood type checked but i think they can do that with a little heel poke. gah, i hope so anyhow. even that brings tears to my eyes though, i hate them hurting.
shinyx3
i used to work in the neonatal intensive care and i very often had to do things that were uncomfortable and even painful for the babies and it only effected me slightly. (i would always apoligise for something that might hurt even if the baby was drugged, even in a code i would be saying to myself 'aww honey, this sucks, i'm sorry') but with my own baby, even though i deem it totally necessary, if it is uncomfortable for him i have the hardest time not crying. i don't remember being that way with shinyboy. i never wanted to see him hurt but i don't remember being so emtional about it. maybe i am just having a foggy memory of it though.

so, question, lil shiny is 3.5 months and is truly not a very good sleeper. aside from wondering how long i can go without a decent nights sleep. (six hours split into two part at best most nights) what can i do to get him to sleep better? he sleeps best from about six in the evening to about 11. that is when i get dinner made and cleaned up, the house cleaned, laundry done, time with shinyboy and the mr. etc. then by the time i am ready for bed, he is up to eat so he gets a bottle and a diaper change and back to bed. he usually only sleeps for a few hours though. then up to socialize, which i don't indulge so he screams, so i ususally end up sitting up with hi, just holding him several hours a night. then if i get some sleep in the morning with im in my arms that is great although it is ot sound sleep for me at all. then i am up for my hay by 6 or 630. very rarly do i get a nap. unless he is in the car or stroller he doesn't sleep for more than an hour at a time in the day. the mister is really bad about getting up with him at night and he is always complaining about how he just can't get any god sleep and is so tired so i don't even bother to ask him to get up anymore and he never offers. we have tried keeping him up in the evening and that is relly comical as he will fall asleep no matter what you are doing with him. so any suggestions, tricks, voodoo for sleeping, whatever.
pepper
listen girl, this won't last forever but while it's happening for heaven's sake why don't You Take a NAP! you gotta sleep when the baby sleeps mama or you ain't never gonna.
could you tell the mister that in order for you to be able to get up at night with the wee one and let him get the sleep he needs for work You gotta get the sleep you need earlier in the day so dinner and tidying up is up to him for a while? could you get someone in to help you, a housecleaner now and then, a friend or relative to help you cook in bulk so you have many frozen options for dinner?
you're in this boat together and even if he's working you still need some extra help from him. things just can't go on the way they were, he's gotta pitch in tons more too. it's totally normal for both parents to walk around like zombies for the first few months at least.
now maybe your man is big huge help already and you are just both swamped and overwhelmed but if your little guy is sleeping for FIVE hours in the evening there is just no way he's gonna stay asleep all night long too. and it is really hard to 'make' a baby do anything, 'specially sleep when you want. girl, get some rest. take a nap in the afternoon for an hour or two. i KNOW you have a thousand things to do but put up with a slightly messier house and sandwiches for dinner now and then so you don't burn yourself right out.

good luck mama.
moxiegirl
Shiny, first...remember, it WILL get better. Second, littleshiny is just about at the age where you can start some kind of sleep training. I think Pepper is right...get him up at 7 or 7:30, then play, play, play until 9ish...and start a bedtime routine. Bath, boob/bottle (i don't remember which you do) and bed. Then, go to sleep. And tell the Mr. that YOU WORK TOO, ALL DAY, EVERYDAY raising his children, so he can get his ass up at 11 and give the wee one the bottle. Flat out make him responsible for the hours from 8pm-midnight, and you take midnight-6am.

You little sounds an aweful lot like moxette at that age. The routine, the regularity and me being a hardass the older she was, did eventually pay off.
lelu
When my little ones were tiny, I never let them sleep longer than 3 hours straight during the day, and then I'd let them sleep at night for however long, unless I got engorged. It's the only sleep training that ever worked for me, but we're about to try something a little...um...stronger for our youngest. She's 16 months and since she turned 6 months old, has only slept for 5 hours straight once. She's still nursing, but she doesn't need to eat at 3am...she just wants to sleep with my boob in her mouth.

Why oh why did my last baby turn out to be the crappiest sleeper? The first two were so easy at night.
grenadine
my friend told me the story of how she and her wife were so paranoid that they should feed their newborn every three hours that they woke her up to feed her (even in the night)...and now their daughter (age 2!) STILL wakes up every three hours.

i have a sneaking suspicion that the crabber sleeps a ton more than average. yesterday she slept all morning, a lot of the afternoon, and all night too. she goes to sleep around 8 p.m. and wakes up between 3 and 5 to eat, which i think is amazing for a two-month old. and i also suspect her of knowing i'm under stress with a two-year-old and a full-time job and being an easy baby on purpose. i will thank her when she's a teenager and driving me nuts...
falljackets
how's the sleep going, shiny?

i feel your pain. jackaroo was a great sleeper for his first couple months. but over the past month it seems, he's getting progressively more difficult to put to sleep. thankfully, he usually isn't just screaming and crying all night: he is just such a social little guy, he wants to laugh and play or nurse until 11:30pm, while i just want to go to sleep. his naps during the day pretty much suck: he sleeps when i nurse him but when i put him down, he wakes up fifteen to twenty minutes later. on the rare occasion that he sleeps longer than that, i try to nap (this happened yesterday and i was asleep for a good five minutes before mil called to check in for the week blink.gif ) it just doesn't always work.

we are still getting into a bedtime routine (which is harder for me than for him i think) and i think it's starting to work. mrfj plays with him when he gets home from work and i finish dinner, then he plays in his jumperoo while we eat and again with mrfj while i clean up the kitchen for bathtime. after bathtime, it's books/playtime followed by music and nursing.

last night, he was already yawning during dinner and i got excited, thinking he was getting used to the routine and knew sleep was coming soon. but it didn't work that way. he nursed on and off several times and kept falling asleep on the boob, then would wake up as soon as i took it away. argh! i was still up with him at around 10:30 but mrfj took over and played coldplay and shushed him until he went down finally.

i am still feeding him on demand and i think he might be going through a growth spurt maybe because he has wanted to eat constantly. he is almost five months now. he has his two bottom teeth already and is babbling up a storm. maybe the growth spurt is affecting his sleep. i feel like he's thriving and the doc said even though he has teeth, she doesn't recommend real food until six months.

there was a question in there somewhere... i guess i just don't want to wind up having to nurse him to sleep when he's 18months. i did leave him with my ils last saturday night (much needed and enjoyed, i assure you) and they managed to get him to sleep by about 11p but with much effort.

oh well, i just count my lucky stars that he's here and that i have a great partner with mrfj. he always seems to know just when to step in and take him from me and send me to the bathtub. tongue.gif (or maybe i just stink)



and as if this post needed to be longer: annoush, doesn't/didn't notbob have eczema? i'm pretty sure jackaroo has it. it's mostly on his face but shows up in his elbows sometimes. it seems worse on his face and on the back of his neck/head. i've switched to fragrance/dye free laundry detergent and oatmeal baths and moisturizer seems to work. the doc also said i could use a little otc cortisone on him but i hate using it on his face. do you (or anyone else) have any advice on how to stop the itching? it seems if i could just stop him from scratching, it'll heal up.
pepper
hey, hit chacha up in the natural health thread. i'm sure she'll have some great suggestions, she always does.
anoushh
I found the Dr. Sears website answer on eczema to be helpful.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/8/t081800.asp

once the itching is under control keeping the skin moisterized helped us the most. If nothing else works, I'd try the cortisone. I understand your reluctance--I don't want to use it either if at all possible--but if it's what works to get the itching to stop enough so that the skin can start to heal, you might be able to break the cycle and improve things.

Notbob is a lot better now, but I expect he'll always be prone to eczema and related problems as his dad is (not to mention his half-siblings.)

As I've said many, many times, Ara has never, ever been a good sleeper. I can relate to the 15-20 minute naps. It's practically a miracle that usually he naps for about 1.5 hours during the day now. For ages it was 20 minutes at a time at the most.

I think all we could do for him was do our best and try to be patient that eventually as he grew it would get better. In some ways it has, and in some ways it hasn't. I just keep reminding myself that someday he'll be a teenager and we'll probably be desperately trying to get him up.

My only thought about jackaroo is that 6:00 seems a bit early for him to sleep. That said, I still don't know how we got notbob acclimated to the 8 hour time difference on your trip to the UK and upon returning (except to say that it seemed to take about a week each time.) We just persevered and eventually he adjusted.
moxiegirl
the answer for ezcema is MOISTURIZE, MOISTURIZE, MOISTURIZE. Moxette gets flareups on her cheeks and legs all winter long...so we slabber her with lotion 3-4 times a day. She thinks its a game. Also, we use non-perfumey everything. That's for me, too, though...the perfumey stuff gives me a headache.

At any rate, FJ...4 mos old (i've said this many, many times...sorry to repeat) is a VERY busy time in a wee one's mental development. They are absurdly distractable, mostly because they are very newly capable of LEARNING behaviors, as opposed to acting on instinct alone. What that causes is that any shift in anything will cause a wake-up. Be patient, determine what is and isn't important to your whole family in terms of routine and sleep, and start teaching him. Our guru, Dr. Brazelton, emphasizes that "discipline" is about love and teaching, not harsh punishment. Perhaps the first thing we "discipline" teach is sleep patterns. We used the ages 4-6 months or so to really be extremely consistent about our "routine" at bedtime (seriously...we'd leave a restaurant at 7:15 even if we weren't done with dinner to start bedtime by 7:45), and by 7-8 months, she was finally a good sleeper at night and at home for naps. It just takes time and patience and loving guidance. And, it IS WAY harder on us parents than on them. By 7-8 months, I had to teach myself that it was just fine for miss moxette to be pissed about going to bed, and that she was fine playing in her crib at 3am w/o my assistance.

It totally sounds like you guys have the beginnings of a great routine. Do you still have him in your room? Maybe moving him to his crib might help, with less distractions, etc?
pepper
omg omg omg, i am just SO in love with this little girl!
could she be any cuter?
could she get any sweeter?
could her darling little face make me squee a little more?
her toes, her nose, her little rosebud pucker,
her teeny wee ears, fat, fat little fingers,
double chin, gummy grin
aaahhh!! i am crazy about this little muffin!

ok, just had to get it out.
falljackets
hehehehehe, pepper! i'm so with you. i just sit and stare at this little guy (even when he's sleeping and i should be catching some zzzs). i wonder if a kid can get too many kisses? i've considered before whether or not i'm causing the eczema from all the lovin' i give him. smile.gif

thanks for the replies, mommas! on the eczema front, i guess i'm doing all i can do for it. i've been moisturizing the crap outta his skin. i've teased him that he's already a metrosexual with all the tending i'm doing to him. he seems to really like it though. i woke up with a red face myself this morning. i never really thought i had eczema before, just sensitive skin, but now i see that it looks the same as his. i should start rubbing the oatmeal lotion on myself, i guess.

i'll read the dr sears article. haven't gotten to that yet.

on the sleep front, i think moxie and pepper are right. there are just so many things going on in his little brain right now. he's just developing right along and he is definitely distracted by anything that moves or squeaks right now. i've been reading a lot online and it is during the 4th-6th months that sleep patterns usually seem to get disrupted and is also the time to instill the routine, so that's what we'll keep doing.

anoushh, i think it's lilshiny that goes to bed so early (6). little guy would never see mrfj if i put him down that early. we start bathtime right around 8pm and finish the bath, playtime, nursing by around 9pm. that fits in well with our schedule since it gives mrfj time before and after dinner to spend with him. but something you said made me remember that this is temporary and there will be a time in the not so distant future that i will long for these times.

oh, and moxie, he's been in his own bed for about two months now, only coming to sleep/nurse in our bed at about 5am. it works well now since i'm not working and can grab a few extra winks while he nurses. he seems to like his bed ok and even plays there quietly in the mornings. we just haven't gotten him to the point of going down drowsy and falling asleep on his own. but i keep reminding myself that he is still such a little guy and for us, crying it out just isn't an option. not yet at least...

so, on a somewhat related note: with all the extra feeding this past week, (sometimes all that consoles him is the boob) i seem to have developed a bleb or a blister or something. it resembles a water blister on my nipple and it is getting painful. i don't think i'm clogged but could that be all it is? i worry that he's sucking differently because of his bottom teeth, or maybe it's the teeth that are rubbing my nipple. i'm putting lanolin on it so far and it has helped but ouch!!
pepper
i got the blister when wee was just new as she could barely get my giant nipple into her teensy weensy miniscule little mouth. KEEP NURSING whatever you do, don't avoid that side because it's uncomfortable. make sure the latch is good and sub a binky when the suckling is getting lazy (ie just for fun, not for feeding). ouch.

if you're both getting dry skin perhaps it's your heating? have you tried a humidifier?
falljackets
yeah, we bought a humidifier a couple weeks ago, although i can't say we've been using it often because we have had unseasonably warm temps here (even for fl) and we aren't running the heat lately.

unfortunately, jackaroo will NOT take a binky. but i'm attempting to sub his thumb because he DOES like to suck his thumb sometimes. i'll keep trying and as hard as it is, keep nursing. hell, it only hurts for a second... just REALLY REALLY bad for that second.

tongue.gif
anoushh
Oops--I knew that about who was sleeping early/waking early but apparently my fingers didn't.

As hard as I've always found it, and am in some ways desperate for him to grow up so I can have some time to myself again, I find myself thinking frequently of his younger days with longing, or starting at his pictures and getting kind of misty. Not that I don't look at him now and think "he's the cutest baby in the world!" etc all the time, but I do have nostalgia for times past already.
moxiegirl
there is only one reason moxette still gets a bottle at bedtime and naptime. I will miss the routine and the quiet wonderfulness of it too much to let go just yet. We've decided that the baba goes when she gets a big-girl bed. Who knows when that will be.

FJ-4-6 mos is a teaching time, not an enforcing time, IMO. Its the first of many "touchpoints" per language of guru Dr. B, but what you set up now will be needed again seriously at 8-9 mos, 12 mos, 14-15 mos, etc. Each time a huge developmental LEAP takes place, all calmness goes right out the window. That's when knowing what "works" comes in very handy, indeed. At 3 mos, we could feed/bed moxette anywhere. At 4 mos, HAD to have quiet, dark, calm, etc.

I do miss her being a baby, but I am absolutely reveling in her as a little girl! Today, she was totally insistent on wearing three (she was very specific about three) butterfly clips in her hair. Pink, Yellow and Purple. NOT blue. With snowboots, NOT shoes. Seriously, I expect a gnome moment any day now!
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