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moxiegirl
annoush- perhaps you should visit the OB or midwife about the tear? 3 months sounds like a long time for healing to me...although I'm a C-section deliverer, so i don't really know from squat.

I talked to the lead teacher, and it was just as you suspected, Tart. They've promised to keep moxette with the same "primary" person if any more changes occur.

anoushh
It is a long time. I was told 6-8 weeks for the degree of tearing I had. It's just one spot that won't completely heal and of late has gotten worse. I'll call the midwife on monday.

The really crap thing is I have no health insurance now.

Notbob has discovered how to hold things in his hands after reaching for them, so he's busy for, oh, 2 minutes or so. So I wanted to say thanks for the encouragment about the weight, Moxie. I was thinking the same thing about how cold it's been lately. It was better Thursday and the Mr actually had the day off, so we took him to baby storytime at the library. He loved it (but still didn't sleep much that day or night...)

Glad things are sorted out at the day care. I think even the most conscientious of us can be guilty of forgetting that the "easy" kids have needs too. (I'm thinking about my last job in this respect as well.)

Anyway, at this point I'm really enjoying reading everyones' cataloging of the minutiae of everyone's child's illnesses. (Not that they are ill, I mean. Just the how everything's going, etc.)

Re: feather duvet--I know my mister can't sleep with a feather pillow (allergies), but it doesn't bother him if I do, or if we have a feather duvet, so I'd think anything's possible.
tart
Eeek - that's no good, Anoushh. Hope your midwife can help you get back on the road to fully healing... I'm sure you've done it all, but I'll put in my recs for warm, saline sitz baths, witchhazel pads & cotton undies, all cheap & easy treatments. I feel you on the no-health-insurance worries - I was without for a long, long time... Will the midwives cut you a deal, maybe?

I'm glad things worked out with your daycare, Mox - it's good to know she's in a place where your requests are taken seriously.

And thanks for all the feather duvet input, everyone - valid concerns, given Tartman's allergies, but I really think we're looking at a cold & top teeth, nothing more. (Yeah, easy for me to say now, huh?) We're slowly inching back towards normal sleep, with only one wake-up last night.

So here's one for the MamaWiki: Normally, Tartlet goes down for the night without much protest, but Friday & Saturday night were such struggles, it was just comical in the end. He'd start off nursing fine, then get increasingly fidgety & antsy, slapping & pulling & squirming & making a right nuisance of himself. Both nights, I got the sh*ts of it, and put him down on the floor while I took a breather. He took off like a bat on fire, crawling like the wind, panting & squawking & sitting & rolling & climbing & OMGPONIES!!!11!! blink.gif 15 minutes of this, and suddenly he stopped, sat down hard, toppled over & howled. 5 minutes of nursing & he was out like a light. huh.gif

So last night, on a hunch that he was getting overtired & worked up, I started the bedtime routine half an hour earlier - worked like a charm. So bedtime has now officially been moved to 6:45, until further notice. Which sucks, because Tartman doesn't get home til 6:15, but hey, if that's what it takes to have a happy bedtime...
moxiegirl
Oh, tart! I feel you, sista. While we haven't had feeding problems at bedtime, the last few nights have been down-right comical. She'll be all snoozy, sleepy finishing the bottle, then down into crib, and BOING! up like a GD pogo stick. I say "Goodnight moxette" and leave. Figure she's supposed to learn the self-soothing, right? Well, she has her blankie and her bunny, so we're good. We hear all sorts of intonations and BABABABAs, and then, the coupdegrace, RATTLING of the crib bars. Then, like clockwork, bababa...thud...zzzzzzz. She must just topple over and snore. I wish we had the forethought to set up a camcorder or something.
chani
Anoushh - My best guess would be the knot from your sutures hasn't dissolved completely and you've got irritation around it - a very minor fix. I'll cross my fingers that there's a cheap, easy solution!
Isn't the sleep thing funny? It seems when Cboy is in a sleep transition it's super quick. If he usually sleeps at 6, suddenly he won't! After a few nights of struggling you try another bedtime and that's the right solution from then on in! So funny, these little things!
anoushh
Actually, good guess, but I've been back so many times that all the non dissolving sutures have now been removed. (Dissovable my butt!)

But I'll take the crossed fingers! Maybe there's a stray one there that escaped detection last time.

I'm having the struggling at bedtime with notbob the last few days. Well, he always does as he's the amazing no sleep boy, but even more than usual. Funny, isn't it?
tart
Gads, Mox, I dream of the day we can just put Tartlet down & say "night-night"... we get screaming wails to bring the house down, not bababa...

So yeah, there's something in the air alright. He was up at an unprecedented 11 last night, and again at 3, and was so wound up that I just stayed out on the couch with him til I heard my alarm go off at 6. Of course, I go in to turn it off, and Tartman's all cuddled up & snoring away, oblivious. mad.gif We had a talk about it this morning, and I'm about at the end of my tether with his ability to sleep through Tartlet's crying. It's a great talent, I'm glad at least one of the three of us is getting some sleep, but fucking hell, man. Your kid is losing his shit like no tomorrow and you don't wake up? WTF, I say. At least get your ass out of bed & come check on us - even if you can't fix the situation, you could at least see if I needed a break, or a glass of water, or some gesture of solidarity, you know?

Sorry, didn't mean to project onto the thread - I'll take this elsewhere... (deep breaths...)
anoushh
Honestly, how do men do that? I don't get it either.
moxiegirl
tart- this is exactly the thread to post about that in. Its all part of the experience of being a mama. I do think one of the greatest things moxieman and i came up with, that was due solely to the bottle-feeding, was the "shift" concept for nighttime. We jointly put moxette to sleep (daddy-bath, mommy bottle), but then i'm "off" until after midnight, and sleep soundly. Moxieman is "off" from midnuight to 4am. This takes "disaster nights" into account when we are both on, all the time. Anyway, i understand its harder for you guys b/c you have the equiptment the wee one needs to calm down. Maybe the midnight boobage should be decreased and a lovie, or daddy, increased? Its no good when only parent in a 2 parent household gets all the crap time.
tart
Thanks, ladies - I'm feeling much better about things now that I've had a chance to blow off some steam on unwitting clients... It's funny, Mox, we were really good about the division of labor early on, but now that Tartlet is older & sleeping through (until recently), She Who Wakes Up has been handling night duty. In fairness, though, Tartlet's waking style has changed dramatically in the past 2 months - there's no dancing him back to sleep anymore. He cries to be picked up, but squirms & fights if I try to just hold him without making with the boobies. Which makes me wonder if the scent of milk is just too much for him to resist... perhaps we'll give the Daddy DanceDown a try tonight. The punchline, of course, is that I'll have to wake up first & get Tartman's ass in gear, by which time Tartlet will be in full voice & oh so receptive to a new tactic rolleyes.gif Ah well, it's worth a shot, anyway.

At least we have a comfortable couch...

(...and for the record, Tartlet has no lovie. Not even a potential lovie. He doesn't take a pacifier, nor does he suck his thumb. All things I'm sure we will be glad of in a year or two, but right now, I'd take a "bad habit" if it meant we could all get some G-D sleep.)
moxiegirl
Well, here's how moxette got a lovie: we put a big pink stuffed bunny in her crib for naps for a week. Then, bunny stayed put at night. Then, we added a "special" blankie, in addition to the one (which changes every night) she has slept with since 4 mos old. So, now, she has bunny, and blankie. And, almost every night, the "bababas" are a monolouge to bunny, and we find 1 of bunny's ears and the "special" blankie under moxette's face every morning.

I don't mean to be an anti-attachment poophead, but it does sound like tartlette could use some "sleep etiquitte." We couldn't bring ourselves to "ferberize" at all...just letting her cry for hours was too rough. We went with Dr. Brazelton's method...lovie, and over the course of a few nights, remind him about the lovie, call to him from OUTSIDE his room, and let him fuss/cry for a few minutes. Then, pick him up for 1-2 minutes of cuddles, put him down, and fight-it-out amongst yourself for another few minutes. Eventually, the bebe is either REALLY needing you (ttething, sick, hurt, messy diaper, etc.) or he figures out that the LOVIE is there to comfort him when mama isn't. Which is really the whole point...to help teach them that there are things in the world beyond mama that are comforting.
tart
I appreciate your feedback, Mox, and you're not a Poopy McPooperson... I do sometimes struggle with our decision to go the AP route, particularly at times like this when I'm a bit sleep-deprived & looking for the proverbial magic bullet.

I don't know if I can fully embrace the etiquette angle at such an early age, though - it'd be one thing if he were, say, 18 months and we were having this discussion, but considering his brain is only just tackling the whole concept of object permanence/separation anxiety stage, I think we'll wait a bit on that. Case in point: we had the Walk Home from Hell yesterday, and I had to put both hoods up to keep the wind & snow out. Happy as a clam, he was, until the hoods went closed. Then it was full-on panic screaming, completely inconsolable, despite all manner of my singing, talking, whathaveyou. Until I opened the hood, and it was like I hit a switch & he was back to his old self again. Same at home - as long as I'm in his line of sight, everything's fine, but as soon as I duck 'round the corner, he usually freaks out. If Daddy or any of his daycare mamas are there, then he's perfectly fine, so I'm not worried that he's exclusively attached to me. I try to remind myself that his brain is still growing, and that all our games of peek-a-boo are helping him work this stuff out...

All that said, I do like your technique of check & console - much more reasonable than full-on Ferber - and reading your path to lovies made me realise that Tartlet probably does have them, the blue IKEA dog-thing that we keep in his crib, and the purple fleece that he's been put to bed with since day one. Perhaps it's time to start encouraging a more intimate relationship with them...
moxiegirl
Tart- I think you've hit the nail on the head- its prime time for object/person permanence. LIttle tartlette is learning that Mommy can go away, adn that's scary. The tricky part is teaching him that there are other good things too. ITs like sleepy etiquitte 101: The Lovie.

I don't think there is a magic bullet. The lovie/self sooth works about 95% of the time. It will become a tool in the "baby-parent-sleep" wars for a long time. We just happen to be at a calm stage just now. THere are plenty of nights when i long for her NOT to think our bed is "adventure land" and to just lay down and sleep with us.

We do remind moxette every night that she has her bunny and her blankie and that mommy and daddy are just on the other side of the door if she needs us. Granted, that just makes ME feel better, but still.

And, if Daddy is an acceptable love-person, then get his butt up at night. Still no good reason for you to be the nocturnal person solo.

Good luck, sweets, and good night's sleep!
moxiegirl
I'm having serious working-mom guilt today. Moxette woke up with a hella runny nose, and was crabby-sure signs of sickness setting in. I still sent her to school, even though I work from home these days. And to top it off, i'm not working much myself today, I'm sick, too. Someone out there with kids in daycare, please tell me that she's going to not be sick all the time b/c i like my job?

On the plus side, even though she woke up wimpering every hour last night, i only had to go to her once. bunny was firmly in her grasp this morning.
tart
Poor Moxie girls! Feel better, kids... (hands out virtual mugs of hot non-botulismed honey & lemon)

So it seems we're back to business as usual - bedtime ran like clockwork, and aside from a squawk & self-soothe around 2am (I heard it! It happened! Incredible!), it was a full, peaceful night's sleep for everyone, in our respective beds. This morning, he's a super-chill, happy Sam... so happy, in fact, that I was late for work! I mean really, who wants to slog it to the office when your bebe's all cuddly & giggly & hiding in your hair? Tartman & I had a really good talk last night, and he's going to take over the bedtime routine a few nights a week, so we can get some flexibility back. I, for one, would really like to be able to meet a friend for dinner without having to do the whole nursedown song & dance first...

Heads-up for the mamas - Old Navy's got a decent sale on-line right now. A lot of stuff for $5 & under... we're stocking up, that's for sure. (Yeah, I've become one of those moms, the ones who buy 2 & 3 sizes out when there's a good deal, & who gets a couple extra for friends/family...)
moxiegirl
Thanks for the Old Navy alert! and YEAH on tartlette! Any sign of the top tooths?

We're praying the latest snot-faucet is tooth related, as she's been drooling for a week solid. Tonight, I'm not fooling around with triaminic...we;re going right to the serious decongestant. I do not want this getting into her chest. A cold I can handle...she's an infant in daycare...its gonna happen...i want to prevent an ear infection and/or bronchitis if i can.
jasmine77
Don't want to count my chickens before they hatch but we had a minor breakthru today. Baby took a nap in his crib twice today!! He actually went down in the crib awake and gurgled and cooed until he fell asleep. First nap was only 1/2 hour but the 2nd was an hour. I know it doesn't mean that he'll always do this (he's only 8 weeks) but I feel better knowing that he can self-soothe somewhat and I won't have to do Ferberizing. I just know that I won't be able to stand the whole cry it out thing.

Also, breastfeeding has been going well the past few days and we're slowly weaning away from the nipple shield. YAY!!!
moxiegirl
OK, I'm gonna be a total devotee here again, but for those who aren't AP parents, but can't bring themselves to go Ferber, I'd seriously reccomend Dr. Brazelton's method (outlined below). Its discussed in his book "Touchpoints 0-3), and I think he has a separate sleep book.

And, Jas-WHOOOOPPPEEE!! Moxette wouldn't nap in her crib until AFTER she started in daycare at 12 weeks. Sometimes the swing would work, but mostly, mama.
chani
Jasmine: Yay for you! Remember, though, as they grow they metamorphasize. Chanibaby self soothed intitially, then at 6 months wouldn't so we CIOed for 2 nights, which worked well for a year until he decided he liked to play at 3 am so we tried everything and finally ended up CIOing again - which again has worked really well for us. He only fusses for 5 minutes or so now before he gives up and crawls back into bed.
Getting started with healthy sleep habits is awesome though and makes your life so much easier! Every baby has a different temprament, and every family has a different comfort level. You'll find the "sleep method" that works best for you. As farmgirl says "whatever gets the most people the most sleep"!
anoushh
Jasmine, you don't have to do the Ferber thing. I can't stand it and think it's barbaric, personally.

Interestingly, I'd never heard of the whole AP thing until having a baby. I say "interesting" b/c until I moved back to the US I worked in a personality disorder service where we talked attachment constantly, every single day. It was perfect for me as I have a strong interest in attachment theory.

I don't think Brazelton is incompatible with AP. He's just a different variation of how it's interpreted. You are still teaching the baby that you will meet its needs and you/ the world can be trusted, just in a different way.

I also thing the "every baby has a different temperament" is sooo important to remember. As does every parent, of course. So basically I'm saying in a long winded way what I could have said if I'd just said "I agree, Chani."

Doh!

Speaking of sleep, we had the night from hell night before last. He would not sleep, and was fussy all night. Last night was better, though. He's very, very gradually increasing the lenght of time he sleeps, but the first period of sleep at night is always the longest. If I'm lucky it's very, very, very occasionally 5 hours, but more like 4 now.


He has occassionally been sort of putting himself to sleep for naps, though. That's been good. Why is napping so much easier to get him down for than nightime?

Mox, thanks for your explaination of how you did the lovie. I've been doing something similar with the boy now that he's older and can start reaching for things a bit. It was helpful.
jasmine77
Okay, well no more naps in the crib since my last post. We did try nighttime in the crib last pm. He did okay but ended up in my bed at 6 am 'cuz I needed some sleep. I'm just not sure how I feel about cosleeping I guess. On one hand, baby sleeps great with me and for longer stretches. also, I feel slightly more secure cuz I can feel him breathing and know he's okay. Yet, I worry about SIDS cuz sleeping in the bed supposedly increases the risk. Also, I don't seem to sleep as well when he's in bed with me (I guess I sleep less soundly which is good and bad). The Mr. seems to be all for baby sleeping with me (I think cuz baby cries less therefore he sleeps more) at least for another month or 2. I dunno. Last night was rough, I was up every few hours until 4:30 am then I was up until 6 am when I decided enuff and brought baby to bed. I guess I'm just really jealous of those moms on iVillage who claim that their 2-3 month olds are sleep 8+ hours at night. (not that I think that's natural).
Anyways, baby is in the crib now but will probably need to be fed in a couple hours and we'll see what happens then. Maybe crib, maybe bed, depends on how sleepy I am.

BTW, I have Touchpoints, No-cry sleep solution and Dr. Sears Baby Book. Also, ordered Healthy Sleep Habits and the Sleep Lady books. Basically, scouring all sources available for some miracle method. smile.gif
moxiegirl
Maybe crib, maybe bed, depends on how sleepy I am.

Jas-that is the exact answer. And what babies at 1-3 mos sleep 8 hours straight is beyond my imagination.
anoushh
Co-sleeping is not more dangerous than the crib provided you aren't drinking or under the influence of drugs, on a water bed, or surrounded by fluffy pillows and bedding (which you don't do in a crib either.)

So don't worry about that in your decisions.

Yeah, I think they are lying about the 8 hours.
jasmine77
Ok, so I give up. Baby slept in the snuggle nest/ cosleeper thingy in bed with me last night all night. He slept from 11:30pm to 7:30am, with only one waking at 4:30am to eat. Meanwhile, I woke up frequently to make sure he was still breathing and not squished into the side of the cosleeper (which he tends to want to do for some reason). I guess it's probably the best situation for now. He's only 8 weeks old, after all. Maybe we'll try naps in the crib to get him used to the idea of sleeping in there and we'll try the nighttime in the crib thing at 3 or 4 months. I guess my biggest concern with cosleeping (aside from the SIDS horror stories) is that he'll still be sleeping with me when he's more mobile and will fall out of the bed. We don't have room to put my mattress on the floor and I refuse to put it there anyways. so there! tongue.gif
anoushh
Jas, if it makes you feel any better, your little guy is sleeping more than mine and he's almost 4 months old!

You can get bed rails and other things designed to make sure they don't fall of the bed. And as chani said, they change so fast. His needs will change too and he'll be able to become more and more independent.

I'm also trying napping in the crib but for us the crib was a cosleeper and he's nearly grown out of that! And we don't have room for the proper crib in the same bedroom as me. Not sure what I'll do next.
moxiegirl
note to self...when one thinks one's child is sleeping straight through the night reliably, remember the awesome power of bad dreams.

So, we've been dealing with the nastiest sinus infection in our household. She got sick when we went on vacay, did the 10 days of antibiotcs for the sinus/bronchitis. Now, a week later, BACK on antibiotics for the sinus/ear infection. Seems the sinus infection is some sort of "resistant" buggy. The worst part is that the antibiotic is making moxette nauseaus and pissed generally...we had her off it on Sunday (on fri-sat), and we're gonna start up again in the morning. The Dr. suggested mixing it right in with her early morning bottle, and seeing if that helps. I hope it does.
*SNEEZE*
That was me...i think moxette and i have the same mean nose bug. I'm calling my own dr. in the morning.
tart
Count us in on the crap sleep/snot factory/general ick. I made the Mister take Tartlet to the doc's today - the hacking cough is back with a vengeance, and he's no longer sleeping through it. Down for bed at 7:30, up at 8:30, 10:45 & 1am, just like the past 3 nights. Bringing him into bed with me & nursing & stroking his back is the only way he's been able to get any decent sleep - lots of hacking, crying out, nightmare-ish whimpering... no good at all. He's fine during the day, but won't nap anywhere but a warm lap, so sleep's suffering all 'round. My gut feeling is a stealth ear infection... the appointment is with an alternate doc, who I don't have the fullest confidence in (she shuddered visibly at the stye I was sporting a few months ago - not exactly professional stoicism, honey), so I'm hoping Tartman doesn't take "let's see how it is in a week" for an answer...

Amen on the co-sleeping love around here - it's not giving up, Jas, it's finding what works. Tartlet's good & mobile, and with either Tartman or a DIY bedrail on one side & me on the other, he's not going anywhere in the middle of the night.

5 in the morning, however, and he's literally scaling the headboard. (sigh) I remind myself that, in 15 years, I'll be hard pressed to get him out of bed before noon...

*~*~*~*tea-tree-scented vibes for all the bebes & the mamas*~*~*~*

ETA: Dammit. We got the "random virus, might take 4 weeks to clear, keep hosing the nose" song & dance. Is it wrong that I just want a big fat round of antibiotics?
moxiegirl
no, its not wrong. I wish we weren't on the 2nd round of antibiotics, but shite, if that's what it takes, then so be it. FWIW, our doc said if she won't take the nose-hose, that pediatric decongestants are just fine at this age/weight. We use triaminic (1.875 ml every 6 hours as needed fpr the 18lbs=24lbs weight class) OR the Rx "C-Phen" which is basically triaminic plus benadryl... at nighttime, we even got the OK to use nighttime triaminic (same dosage). It dries her right up. Doesn't do anything to cure the runny noses...but it helps with the comfort and drainage.

Jas- we never co-slept, but for the first 10 weeks of life, moxette would only nap on my chest, or in her swing. We are about the farthest thing from the AP world, but honestly, its only b/c that's what worked for us. And, I find myself starting to mourne the days when moxette just wants mommy's belly to nap on. The days of that ending are sooner than I think, me thinks.

Well, the morning bottle+antibiotic seems to work. She didn't eat solid breakfast at school, but ate and drank everything else. I'll take it. Tart, remember, we are doing our children a favor by building the immunity...right?

Moxette did go right back to sleep after a few minutes of cuddles post bad-dream. I was not so lucky myself. But, its all good. She's snoozing away right now, and terribly sweet with her wacky hair and pouty sleep lips.
anoushh
I think the mommy mantra has to be "you do what works best for you and baby." And since everyone is different, babies, mommies, daddies, etc, that's going to be different for everyone.

As long as their needs are met, and you manage your own anxieties reasonably well, things will be good.

I think it's really awful that the sleeping thing never gets talked about. I mean, I'm pretty AP all around, but I spent a lot of time freaking out about cosleeping too. If I'd only heard more of what Mox is saying it would have been so much better. (And thank god for her and everyone else here saying it or it would have been sooooo much worse.) You end up thinking everyone else's baby goes right to sleep in the crib, no problem, first night, when that's just not the case for the vast majority of babies, I'm convinced.

My mom's going away for a week beginning of march. I'm panicking a bit b/c the mister works so much that basically means I'm on my own w/ the baby. So much for showers....

On the plus side, he had a 5 hour stretch of sleep last night. He wanted to get up at 6:30 am, but still, 5 hours!
chani
You can still shower... it just has to be with a swing/bouncychair/ exersaucer in the bathroom, the curtain open and a lot of singing and dancing! It's eating that might be a problem - stock up on snacks that you can prepare and eat one handed!!!!
I'll be thinking of you next week!
Hugs to everyone here for being such awesome and supportive mamas!
anoushh
I know, it's just hard in our house, physically if nothing else (tiny bathroom) But thanks for the pep talk. I need it.

Why am I so f'ing tired?
More to the point (since we pretty well know the answer to that one...), why did I have to have a nightmare and end up awake for at least 1/2 and hour last night when he was actually sleeping???
moxiegirl
annoush- its evil mom karma...must date back to hunter-gather-er days. Once moxette did start sleeping better, it took me weeks to get back to enjoying 6-8 hours of uninterrupted sleep.

I do want a moment to brag about kidlet...she slept from 7:30-4:30 last night with nary a peep! I fed her and plop! right back to bed. Now, I'm getting ready to be off to the office, and I just hope she sleeps long enough for moxieman to get a shower.

Oh! yes, I absolutely second the exersaucer for any babe who is big enough (we started at about 4 mos). Its an absolute god-send for eating, showering, etc. We even got ours second-hand, and it was wonderful. So much so, that BOTH grandmas got one for their own houses. It worked well up till about 9 mos...mobility took over at that point.

Hey Chaini- how's V 2.0 cooking? Does Chainibaby understand at all about the wee one (i don't remember, boy or girl?)?
tart
Ah, yes, I know that one - you spend weeks trying to get your little one to STTN, and when he does, you freak out every hour, all night long, and end up going in to check if he's breathing... thus waking him up. :rimshot: But props to Notbob for a 5-hour stretch! Progress! If it's any consolation, Anoushh, we never did the exersaucer/bouncy in the bathroom - I either got my shower before Tartman left in the morning, or did a quick rinse the minute Tartlet went down for a nap (yes, several times he woke up before I was done, and I had to cut to the chase)... Do you have a Bumbo? They take up a lot less floor space, and you can even bring them in the shower with you (never tried it, but friends swear by it)...

So AltDoc wasn't totally useless - she gave us a scrip for a mild decongestant that should help with the drainage that's apparently causing the cough. (of course, it's for a drug that no one makes anymore, so the pharmacist has to chase her down this morning for an alternate scrip... oh yeah!)

Last night was better - only one hacking wake-up around midnight, but I brought him into bed with us at that point so I could keep an eye on him for the rest of the night. He's finally getting to the point where he can sleep next to me & not feel compelled to nurse all night long, so it's actually been kind of nice, having him snuggled in between us. He likes to go splat on his tummy, arms out, bum in the air, but with his head shoved up in my armpit blink.gif

On the cosleeping bit, I really think it depends on where you start looking for parenting info - if you start with the What to Expect series, most mainstream media, or a more traditional ped, you'll quickly get the message that cosleeping is dangerous & leads to major problems down the road. If you by chance read Sears first, have "crunchy" friends/relatives, or have a ped who's comfortable with the family bed, you get the message that it's healthy & natural & safe if done mindfully. It's the same with any parenting issues, really - breastfeeding, CIO, solids, diapering... there's so much damn info out there, and for every valid theory there's an equal & opposite counter-theory.

I think the hardest part is facing opposition from your own family - when the parenting decisions that you worked so hard to research & solidify are waved off or dismissed with a perfunctory "well, we never did x, y & z, and you turned out fine!". My sister's baby girl sacks out in the middle of the floor, oblivious to any surrounding racket, and no one can understand that I need to take Tartlet upstairs & nurse him for 45 minutes to get him to sleep - nevermind that I actually kind of like that quiet time with him. Our efforts to find an ethnically diverse, in-home daycare for him are met with comments like "you know, you can afford to send him somewhere decent, why are you looking at those places?". Oy. Sorry for the minirant. Feeling the mounting pressure of moving back to my hometown, and the magnifying glass/fishbowl we'll be subject to therein...
moxiegirl
tart- also in the fishbowl are grandparents, siblings and cousins who all will add wonderful experiences and wisdom to the family. THere-pollyanna-ing done.

What I adore about our pediatrician is that he is very much a "here's what i reccomend, but really, you need to do what works" kind of guy for most development/sleep/eating issues. Meet a minimum requirement, go from there. LIke, I heard him say to the mother of a 3 year old with chronic ear infections: You need to stop bottles with milk at bedtime. A 3 yrold does not need them and they;re causing the infections. He'll survive with a cup of milk.
When we asked him about stoping moxette's midnight feedings (for much the same reason): "eh, she's just a baby. she'll let you know when she's ready." Which, of course, she did.
tart
Thanks for the ray of sunshine, Mox smile.gif This impending move is bringing out the sullen teenager in me, and it's good to be reminded that I am actually looking forward to being nearer family, and that they really do think we're doing a great job raising Tartlet. Some day I'll grow up & stop getting my hackles up at the slightest perceived criticism from them... self-directed rolleyes.gif
jasmine77
I love my peds too. When I mentioned cosleeping at Jake's 1 month visit, she was like 'whatever works for now, just be safe about it.'

I didn't consider myself AP until I realized that I've been wearing baby all day everyday in a sling, cosleeping and breastfeeding. Sounds like AP to me! I guess the MR. and I have just been doing what's instinctual and what keeps the babe quiet and content. I've decided that we're just gonna go with it as far as sleeping is concerned. Last night, baby slept in the cradle at the foot of our bed until 6am then came into bed with me for a couple more hours rest. Also, he slept from 10pm to 4:30am straight. Go figure! The night before I had him in bed with me all night and he was up every 2-3 hours! I can't figure him out.
moxiegirl
really, jas, that's the ticket anyway. Most sleep "routines" can't even really start being instituted until at least 4-6 mos age...the little baby brains just can't take the concept of self-soothing at all until then. Now is the best time to start a nightime ritual, so that when the bebe can take "self-soothing" a framework is established. Plus, like tart has said, the rituals are as important for the parents as for the kids. Its the night-time, closeness and quiet time that is super special.
chani
Hey everyone! We're doing pretty well - cervical check today revealed no signs of early labour (I'm just over 35 weeks) and I'm feeling fine. Today was my last full day of work, although I'll likely be in a few more times for a few hours at a time until the end of the month.
Chaniboy was visiting his 4 mo. old cousin yesterday and was very gentle and appropriately behaved with him, even when I had baby on my lap. I'm hoping that's a good sign!!!
He's also FINALLY doing some walking!! The lightning crawl is still his default mode, but every day the percentage of time standing and walking increases. About time, but I'm glad it's finally happening!
jasmine77
I have to post cuz I'm just so darn proud! The little guy is 2 months old today and just rolled over (belly to back) for the first time during tummy time today. He seemed kinda surprised and displeased by the whole situation but mommy is very proud and videotaped him rolling over multiple times afterward. And now he's sleeping in the sling. He's just worn out from all that activity! smile.gif
moxiegirl
YEAH!!! littlejas!!! You go rolling away from mama and into your own world! GO KIDDO!

SO, moxette has had the sinus infection from hell recently. She's on a wicked antibiotic right now that is making her puke and gives her the runs. (today, after 4 days of runny poop and wicked rash, she's getting an new Rx, thank goodness) I was very worried about her this weekend, and I had to do a whole day away for a bridesmaid dress shopping excursion for a wedding I"m standing up in. So, one of the other bridesmaids is also a new mom of an 11 month old. She's a SAHM, ok. When I said that I had to call and check on moxette and explained why, she goes "Oh, my baby has never been sick. Its b/c I stay home with her." Bitch. It wasn't in the "my turn will come" way either. Grrr. This has been bugging me ever since.

Phew, i feel better. MIni-rant over. Thanks.
moxiegirl
ok, sorry for the double post.

My SIL is doing a masters thesis, where her topic is visual representations of materal nutruring, specifically breastfeeding. Anyway, on her blog, she posted this quote that really epitomizes her own dilemma as a feminist and new mother:

"If R spends just as much time with K as I do, then why doesn’t he feel as guilty about the time he spends away? I think its because I feel ‘ultimately responsible’. For what? …not for discipline or doctor’s appointments or even the shopping, but for providing ‘love and attention’. I feel…or I need to feel… I’m the only one who can meet this demand and I remember when I realised it..the first time K said, “I love you mummy”"

She and I have talked this over and over (her boy is 2 mos younger than moxette), as her parental role is drastically more AP than mine (she's a SAHM in Utah!). I feel personally that I need to feel that WE are ultimately responsible, not just me.

Interesting point for discussion, though. Thoughts anyone?
tart
Grrr, one Bustie Bitchslap of Doom comin' up. Whatever, SAHM lady. The first week that kid's in public school, she's gonna rue those words... Poor Moxette. How is it that the cure is worse than the disease?

Woot woot! Go Jaslet, go Jaslet!

We had a no good very bad night again, after 2 relatively peaceful nights that lulled me into thinking we'd worked through the latest sleep shake-up. Out like a light at 7, up raring to go at 11:30. Lots of pushing away, flailing limbs & scratching/pulling/gnawing, but wailing the house down if I let him down on the floor that he was so violently reaching for. After an hour I got Tartman out of bed to deal with him, but there was no rest for anyone until he came into bed with us at 1:30. Which pissed me off, because had I known, I'd have just done that in the first place. Ugh ugh ugh. I hate getting to That Point, when I just want to put him down & walk the fuck away, but feel so completely shitty for wanting to/doing it, as it's totally unproductive & only makes the situation worse. Tartman's boss piped up this morning with the very helpful "you just gotta let 'em yell, they gotta learn they can't sucker you into rescuing them". Yeah, thanks, just what I want to hear, buddy. 'Cause I'm not questioning my every parenting decision enough right now. mad.gif

(deep, cleansing breath)

On the up side, my gorgeous custom mei tai arrived today, so we have something fun to test drive on the way home.

ETA: Oh boy. I fall prey to the 'ultimately responsible' trap, but very much on a practical level, as well as psychological. It's one of the hardest things Tartman & I have dealt with in our relationship - my inability to let someone else deal with things, and not worry/micromanage them to death & defeat the whole purpose. I come from a long, long line of strong women who suck it up & get it done - this served me well at various points in my life, but it now is biting me in the ass something fierce...
anoushh
That was a very stupid, rude, lame thing for that woman to say, Mox. You could counter with your kid will be better emotionally developed and have a healthier immune system for being in daycare. So there.
Ha!

(I'm saying this as someone who despairs of ever getting a decent job here. There are lots of jobs for social workers, but the pay is so horrible it's scary. Hasn't increased in 10 years, though housing and everything else has gone up like crazy. So I may end up being stay at home for longer than I'd planned.)

D.W. Winnicott, the british psychiatrist, talked about "primary maternal preoccupation" which is what I think of in response to your other comments, mox.

QUOTE
The significant effects of the first hours and days are explained in part by observations noted by Winnicott,who reported a special mental state of the mother in the perinatal period that involves a greatly increased sensitivity to, and focus upon the needs of her baby. He indicated that this state of "primary maternal preoccupation" starts near the end of pregnancy and continues for a few weeks after the birth of the baby. A mother needs nurturing support and a protected environment to develop and maintain this state.

This special preoccupation and the openness of the mother to her baby are key factors in the bonding
process. Winnicott wrote that "Only if a mother is sensitized in the way I am describing, can she feel herself
into her infant's place, and so meet the infant's needs." In the state of "primary maternal preoccupation" the
mother is better able to sense and provide what her new infant has signaled, which is her primary task. If
she senses the needs and responds to them in a sensitive and timely manner, mother and infant will establish
a pattern of synchronized and mutually rewarding interactions. It is our hypothesis that as the mother-infant
pair continues this dance pattern day after day, the infant more frequently will develop a secure attachment,
with the ability to be reassured by well-known caregivers and the willingness to explore and master the
environment when care givers are present. In a sense, the child becomes an optimist rather than a
pessimist. The characteristics of a secure attachment, if present at 1 year of age, usually persist
through childhood and into adult life.


Speaking of which, there was a report on NPR last weekend (or maybe the one before, who knows these days) that mentioned a study that found this last sentence to be true. Well, duh, I thought. Maybe it's just b/c of my field, but it seemed so obvious. Still, it's good for people ot hear it I suppose, rather than that horrible attitude that says "oh well--they can't remember anything at that age anyway, so it doesn't much matter what happens as long as they are physically taken care of."

I've been a bit surprised at how unwilling I am to give up resonsibility for the the little guy--to share the responsibility. I do feel that no one can take care of him like I can.

Anyway, that's all the thinking I can handle for today.

Jas, notbob hates tummy time, so he hasn't rolled over yet. Our ped said that it's not unusual now that babies aren't put to sleep on their tummies for it to be 5 or 6 months to roll over. So maybe you have a prodigy there!

Baby story time again today. He was mesmerized. I think he enjoyed it.

How do they grow so fast? I bet he'll need a new car seat soon and he's just on the verge of growing out of his six month sized clothes. (And they are soooo cute. I'm not ready to move on yet!)

moxiegirl
You know, the "giving up control" is just the point that SIL and I were hashing out. Now, I respect her as a mother tremendously, mostly b/c she's just as much a critical thinker and desicsion maker as I am, and incredibly introspective. For me, having moxette was a harsh lesson in realizing I had to learn to give up controling every situation. I mean that literally...i had nervous breakdowns and panic attacks after her birth and in the months following, which led me to a therapist. One of the most important things I got out of that experience was that if I tell moxieman (or my mom, or his, etc.) HOW to do something with the bebe, I am intrinsically telling them I don't TRUST their ability. WHich is absolutly NOT the message I wanted to give. So, I've worked very hard to ensure that moxieman is an equal parent and equally invested in moxette security, trust, bonding and care.

That being said, I don't think its only a mother who can bond with the child in the way Dr. Winnicott describes, or that traditional AP is the only way to achieve that goal. Call me less of a woman, or whatever, but I think both parents can fulfill the role, if it is important to both of them to do so.

Tart- I'm sorry about tartlette's night. Phoey. There is something to be said for letting them cry and walking away. I can't do it for more than 10 min at a time, but its come down to that a number of times. The crib is a safe place for a mini tantrum. At 10 mos, these kidlets are starting to sense independence, and its scary and real. Our job is to give them the discipline (i.e. skills) to handle it.

eta: Annoush- its very normal for bottle babies to grow faster in the early months than breastfeed babes. Moxette was in the 95% until 9 mos old, when her weight went to the 80th. She was in the "big kid" car seat just before christmas...8.5 mos old.
anoushh
I didn't mean no one but the mother can do it, but it usually is the mother and that it's normal to feel that way.

And yep, I hear what you are saying about control.

What is called "attachment parenting'' is one way of trying to respect the attachment needs of the infant and recogising htem as important. I don't think it's the only way, by any means. One of the important things in attachment is the parents' abitility to contain the child's feelings, feelings it can't manage yet. If parents are completely overwhelmed b/c they are forcing themselves to do something that isn't right for them, that isn't good for baby either.

I liked the part about the child becoming an optimist rather than a pessimist. I think that's a good way to describe what you are trying to teach a child. It still scares me to think that people still say of infants "they have to learn the world is a harsh place." Or that stupid thing about babies being manipulative.

I'm up for a good pointy booted kick to both the other bridesmaid (I'm at home with the boy and he had his first cold at 2 months, btw) and tartman's boss.

Ok, maybe I am a bit testy at the moment...

It's probably a good thing I'm not at my old job now. I don't know if I could take the constant exposure to the results of bad parenting with the little one around. Not yet.

Does that make sense? I'm tired. Count me in on the bad nights. Up at 5 am this morning--"let's play!"

Ok, that's not on par with tartlet's night, I'm sure. How do you do this and work???

Oh, and notbob is suddenly terrified of sneezes again.
tart
Hey, I'm at work... never said I get anything done. tongue.gif

QUOTE
One of the most important things I got out of that experience was that if I tell moxieman (or my mom, or his, etc.) HOW to do something with the bebe, I am intrinsically telling them I don't TRUST their ability.


Yesyesyes, Mox, this is exactly what I struggle with, with Tartman. He is very ready to take my "expert" opinion/advice/techniques, & has a very hard time keeping sane & coming up with Plan B if his first instinct doesn't work. (His mum's super self-doubting, and that's obviously rubbed off more than we'd thought.) So he comes to me when it all goes pear-shaped, and I kick into Fix It Now mode and take over, figuring the immediate shrieking baby takes precedence over "what can we learn from this" discussion... which we do have, eventually, but I can't keep my hands out of the damn pot long enough for Tartman to apply anything we come up with... Clearly, I need to take a pill & let him get on with being a father, not just Daddy FunTime. I need to remember that half an hour of crying is not going to scar Tartlet for life, and as long as Daddy's there, everyone's safe & I can put in earplugs & read a book for a few minutes & the world will not implode for lack of my intervention.

Honestly, I blame breastfeeding. We BF mums are the be-all, end-all, go-to gals for the first, very stressful, very intense weeks of a baby's life, and it's really hard to relenquish that sense of... importance isn't the right word. Seriously, I think it sets up a tenacious link between our presence & our babies' happiness that is nigh impossible to break. This is not to say that I regret BFing at all, but I'm now starting to see the pitfalls of exclusively nursing for so long...

Have I told you all lately how much I love you? This forum is one of the only places I have where I can have honest, non-inflammatory discussions about the deepest, darkest moments of motherhood. Knowing that there is a band of women with totally different experiences & backgrounds who nevertheless come together in support of each other, without judgement or malice, makes such a difference in my life. Thank you Moxie, Anoushh, Jasmine, Chani, the elusive Pepper, Grenadine & Squidmo, the omnipresent Farmgirl & TG... you are fabulous mothers, each & every one of you, and don't let anyone (least of all yourselves) tell you otherwise.
moxiegirl
tart- you are a good mama, and your boy's sillyness shows through. Daddyfuntime is a great person to be too! Anyway, a big reason we chose not to breastfeed (or not to keep trying, rather), was that I knew I had this over controlling tendency already, and I absolutly did not want that to be our parental paradigm.

You CAN let go and let tartman find his way through the wailing waters. You birthed that kid out, you can do ANYTHING!

These things being said, we still find that I'm the first thought person on when things need to shift in baby world. Moxieman is such a routine based person, that he is almost loath to change anything unless its incredibly aparent (and usually too late). So, I usually bring something up, and then we go together from there.

Ok, back to work myself.
chani
Totally agree with the BF link thing but it's probably even more general than that. When you're home with them all day every day, you know what works and what doesn't. It's natural to want to "protect" your babe by telling dad how to do it, since you don't want him to have to make all the stumbles you've had to work through to find the perfect snack/nap/playtime rituals. Not that that makes it any less obnoxious from Dad's point of view.
MrChani was home with the baby from ages 10-13 months while I worked 12 hour days. As soon as he was home, the roles were reversed - he told me when and how baby went down for naps, or what he would and wouldn't eat because I had no clue anymore. I think experience will make him MUCH more tolerant of me "telling him what to do" with baby #2!
anoushh
That's my situation. He's working nearly 70 hours a week and the baby is changing day to day. He just doesn't know what works any more. It's not that I think he couldn't, but right now he's so much less familiar with the situation than I am. And I'm not breastfeeding, but in spite of the occasional bottle from my mom, the mister, or even my brother, I'm the one spending the most time with him.

(I'm sick of it, btw. Something has to change. But that's another subject.)

And I'm sick of the fact that after application of silver nitrate to cauterize several places, resulting in increased pain for about a week, I'm back to baseline after nearly 10 days, but no better. I'm wondering if I should go straight to a gynecologist. I don't have any health insurance, so if i'm going to have to pay, why should I pay for the GP visit first if she just tells me to see a gyno? Any thoughts?

And how are tartlet and moxette today?
tart
Get thee to a gyno, Anoushh, preferably an OB/GYN. Or, is there a Planned Parenthood in your area? Ours in Chicago do sliding scale fees, and you can bet they've seen everything. And much, much sympathy with the home situation - work vs family time can be such a miserable struggle...

Tartlet slept for nearly 5 hours at daycare yesterday, went down in 20 minutes last night & didn't wake up til 5 this morning. I gave him a quick second breakfast in bed after my shower, and he sacked out again! blink.gif I'm convinced that, if left to his own devices (ie. if we hadn't been moving around the room, getting dressed) he'd have slept for another hour, at least. The only thing we changed was a half dose of ibu at bedtime, and a drop of lavender-based oil on his potential-lovey bunny (BPAL's Safari, for those of you following along at home). I'm now convinced it was gut trauma that was keeping him up - apparently, he had the Poop to End All Poops yesterday morning - huge, green & mucousy. (TMI?) But who knows? All I know is, everybody got sleep, and that's a very good thing...

How's my DIL today?
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