Your preaching to the choir honey!

just to simplify it for you: soy has estrogen in it basically. plant estrogen. i don't eat any meat so i use seitan and soy protein powder--protein but no fat. just remember not to od on the soy because too much estrogen isn't good for anyone. i get about 24 grams of protein a day from soy and that agrees with me but if you're concerned, ask your doctor.

Thanks Cinderflower, you take supplements? I read an article that a doctor had written, basically saying stear clear of supplements from soy, that it can be dangerous. I'm sorry, I do not remember the link, I will try and track it down for you.

Do you think that your bv is caused from hormonal issues or not? Does yours come back every month or how often?

Are you a lacto-vegan or total vegan?


Yeah, but I just started a couple of months ago. I was having some complicated health issues (not healing, not responding to any antibiotics, etc.) and my pre-albumin wasn't below normal, but it was eighteen, which is the lowest amount for normal. I upped it to twenty in about a month with extra seitan (about eighty grams of protein a day) and Naturade soy protein booster and then Wild Oats Food Origins soy protein powder and had great results. Unfortunately, this had nothing to do with bv. Now I'm slightly embarrassed because I've had bv exactly twice in my life and one yeast infection and i'm 49. Obviously, my estrogen needs are going to be different than almost all the rest of you; I think I just saw "soy" last night and went berserk because I had such a good experience with it. Lots of people have already approached me about the dangers of soy supplements, but I think (I hope, anyway) that most of the problems come from overdoing it and what results is the same thing as too much estrogen: clots, strokes, breast cancer, ad nauseam. I like tofu but I haven't used it a lot because it's so high in fat. I'm a lacto-vegan: eggs (protein) but I never drink milk. I do eat cheese made from milk and I practically live on Mountain High plain nonfat yogurt.

My shamefully low experience with bv/yeast infections was directly related to being on extremely strong IV antibiotics for twelve weeks. It could very well be that I'm simply lucky in that area and it has absolutely nothing to do with the way I live. I took clindamycin orally and also used the cream, and just monistat for the yeast. When I got out of the hospital, I followed up with yogurt in both ends. I also use liquid acidophilus if I've had a particularly heavy encounter with antibiotics.

Lucky for me I'm not lactose intolerant or allergic to gluten. I recommend trying to stay away from benzos if at all possible (xanax, valium, etc.) because they're crappy drugs. I stopped drinking any alcohol at all four years ago, quit smoking cigarettes in 1989, and my recreational drug use ceased circa 1986. The only thing I take is about 3-5,000 mg of vitamin C, cranberry pills if I think they're necessary for urine ph, and 40 mg. of Cymbalta since last September. I did take St. John's wort, valerian root and Kava Kava (not all at once, ha!) when I was waiting for the Cymbalta to kick in and they all work well enough for relaxation. Kava Kava is particularly good if you can get past the taste and the hassle of straining it. There are gelcaps available but they aren't nearly as effective as powdered root. And this is going to sound really stupid, but drinking eighty oz. of water a day does incredible things. You live in the bathroom of course, but just try it sometime for about a week if you can. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

Oh yeah, I do drink coffee in the morning, shoot up heroin and worship the devil. Well, okay. Not the last two.

Stress does not help you one iota when you are feeling sick. Stress exacerbates an already bad situation. I went to the healthfood store - again. (I feel like I live there. And live on this board!) And I told a salesman that I am battling an infection, and I feel crappy and frustrated. He handed me a bottle of supplements, it said 'promotes relaxation' on the label, and I said to him, what are you giving me these for? I need something to kill infections, not make me sleep. And told me to just try it, it will help with the anxiety of feeling sick.

What he should have done was warn me that they would work extremely well. It's called L-Theanine. It's an amino acid. It's the relaxing component of Green Tea. But without the caffeine. I wasn't going to mention it to anyone, because even though I understand how it works, I don't want people to take the wrong amount. The capsules I have are 200 mg (milligrams) and it is way too much for me. I bought it, took one capsule of it, and then took one cap the next day, and felt great. I almost FORGOT that I even had the infection. I stopped having panic attacks. I don't know if will have the same beneficial effect on anyone else here, but it is worth trying. I was so upset about the BV, it was like a downward spiral, I was feeling more and more depressed everyday. And then this supplement just stopped it cold. I have been taking it every morning with my first meal of the day. Or at lunch time, if I forget. I've been taking it for a week and a half. The first two days made me feel way too happy. I was a bit wary. I mean, you want to feel normal, not feel like you are in Disneyland. So I opened up the caps last week, and split the powder into 5 parts. So that is 200 mg divided by 6 = 40 mg. And that is what I am taking every day. It's a pain to separate the powder like that, but I don't want to go shopping again and look around for a 40 mg cap.

Soy alters the uptake of minerals in your body. It both increases absorption, and can block absorption of other minerals. Soy can block the absorption of iodine. Which puts a strain on your thyroid gland. Thyroid exhaustion is related to adrenal exhaustion. Which can effect your hormone levels. Soy is also an 'estrogen mimicker'. And estrogen "is an accelerator of body accumulation of minerals". (Read link below.) If you eat soy, it seems that you will absorb a lot of whatever minerals you are eating. So if you are eating high copper foods, you will be high in copper, and become deficient in zinc. So soy it is bad for two reasons. Both reasons related to your hormone levels. I am not saying I don't eat soy. I just had it this morning with yogurt and granola. But now that I am aware of what it is doing to my body, I don't drink soy milk as frequently. I read that if you are eating soy and are perhaps depleting your body of iodine and zinc, make sure that you compensate for this by eating enough iodine rich foods, and/or take an iodine supplement. I happen to really like Japanese style seaweed salad, and love seafood, so this is easy for me to do. But whenever I feel like I haven't had enough iodine, I make sure to take Kelp pills. And I am hoping that it will balance out the problem.

But that being said, soy has a few other things wrong with it, like the fact that it is also high in 'phytates' which bind with minerals, preventing absorption. It has estrogen like qualities, so you will absorb minerals more easily, but not the zinc or iron so much, because it is being blocked by the phytates. Hey, I'm not a scientist, I am just reading this stuff.


[ Phytic acid is a strong chelator of important minerals such as calcium, magnesium, iron and zinc and can therefore contribute to mineral deficiencies in people whose diets rely on these foods for their mineral intake such as those in developing countries.[3] In this way, it is an anti-nutrient.[1] For people with a particularly low intake of essential minerals, especially young children and those in developing countries, this effect can be undesirable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytic_acid ]


[ The high phytic-acid content in soy may also have adverse effects on brain function. Phytic acid is an organic acid present in the outer portion of all seeds which blocks the uptake of essential minerals in the intestinal tract: calcium, magnesium, iron, and especially zinc. Soybeans have very high levels of a form of phytic acid that is particularly difficult to neutralize and which interferes with zinc absorption more completely than with other minerals.

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/soyandbrain.html ]


[ Thinking of estrogen as an accelerator of body accumulation of minerals, both essential and toxic, can also shed light on the controversial results seen from consuming foods with estrogen-like substances like tofu. Many reports indicate that tofu promotes hypothyroidism while others report that it promotes hyperthyroidism. If tofu is eaten with a diet high in cadmium, such as from eating large amounts of green leafy vegetables or from smoking, then the estrogen-like substances could accelerate the body's uptake of cadmium, leading to hyperthyroidism or TED. However, if tofu is consumed along with a diet high in beans and nuts (high in copper), the copper intake could be accelerated and hypothyroidism could result. Tofu is also high in phytates which bind zinc, increasing the possibility of hypothyroidism.

Tofu is also high in phytates which bind zinc, increasing the possibility of hypothyroidism.

http://www.ithyroid.com/thyroid_theory.htm ]

Thanks Can Can...I just to be sure your product is called L-Theanine and not L-Tyrosine? The reason I'm asking is I want to be sure as I CANNOT take L-Tyrosine because I was recently on Prozac (which my new doctor took me off) but I can't take L-throsine until the prozac is out of my system.

Anyone who is one anti-depressants..You MUST tell your doctor before trying these.

No, I am talking about L-Theanine. The one you are referring to is an amino acid as well, but is a totally different thing.

For stressed out females (some vitamins needed for immune system, as well as battling BV, and yeast, UTI's

Vitamin C with bioflavnoids 3000-10,000 mg (yes I said 10,000) essential to adrenal gland function
makes urine more acidic less chance of UTI's

Calcium 2000 mg daily lost when stress is present (deficiency is common in highly stressed

loss can result in anxiety, fear, hallucinations (use calcium chelate form)

magnesium 1000 mg daily " same as above"


Not enough time to list all the B's right now, I bought a stress B complex supplement and take with vitamin C on empty stomach (trying to avoid having to get b injections)

Vitamin E 200 IU daily take with food needed for immune function

Zinc 50 mg daily (do not exceed 100 mg daily) zinc is included in a lot of multivitimans

Biotin 300 mg 3 x daily (kills yeast) its included in my b complex too.

Colloidal silver (use as listed on label) natural antibotics that subdues inflammation and aids healing

Vitamin A 25,000 IU daily powerful antioxidants that aid healing

Vitamin D (3) 1000 mg daily (relieves stress)

This is my half asser for now....I will work on a blog though. I'm tired of antibotics...really.

I'm still not stinking (no sex, no period yet, no burning snatch) I still have 3 and half days of antibotics to take. Doctor still hasn't called me back..the nurses must have bv too, they pretty rude. (ok so I have called 3 tims)

arj75, you mention L-Tyrosine, and I agree with you, if you are on any medications at all, your doctor should always be informed on what you plan on taking, or what you are taking already. If you are on anti-depressants, it is his job to get the balance right. And taking L-Tyrosine should be taken only if the doctor knows about it first. L-Tyrosine is powerful stuff. It is great for depression, and it will change how you feel. But you want it to be in a good way. Taking Prozac and the supplement at the same time, would possibly be like doubling your medication.


[ L-Tyrosine is used to treat conditions including depression or mood disorder, poor coping ability, fatigue, low sex drive, low metabolism, and drug abuse. It can also improve endurance under stress and is effective as an appetite suppressant. Proven useful in the control of anxiety or depression, Tyrosine is known as the "antidepressant" amino acid. When taken properly, L-Tyrosine can assist a sluggish thyroid and aid the dieter in losing excess, unwanted pounds. L-Tyrosine has been found to assist in optimizing thyroid hormone levels, increased mood, concentration, and productivity.

http://www.anxius.com/includesPOP/ingredients.php ]

[ L-tyrosine is an amino acid that serves as a precursor to the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine, which have been shown to be deficient in many depressives. The supplementation of this amino acid may help the body to form more of these substances during difficult times. Tyrosine may also be helpful in cases where clinical or subclinical thyroid disease is present.

http://www.healingfromdepression.com/help7.htm ]

Thats great to hear! I'm really sorry you had to go so long without relief. I'm on boric acid too but i've been buying suppositories from a pharmacy with a prescription from my doctor. I insert one vaginally every other night for 2 months. I should start taking acidophilus, I eat yogurt like crazy though.

I have no discharge right now, a little bit of smell. unfortunately i have blood in my urine right now... seems like my problems never end. I cant tell if i have a uti or kidney or bladder. could i have blood in my urine with kidney? I dont have irritation or burning or the urge to pee and it dosnt hurt to pee. so...kidneys?

ive been downing water and cranberry juice but i think i need to get a prescription

Hey you all,
I found some interesting information..it makes my mind start to wonder....Athletes who over exert themselves (who are pretty damn healthy) (and some probably on steriods too) often come down with strep throat after physical training.
Why is this? After the body runs out of oxygen for aerobic cellular respiration, it then switches to anaerobic cellular respiration....which dumps lactic acid into body..which is what causes sore musles, and (it makes sense to me) come down with a bacterial infection such as strep throat. I'm not saying don't exercise, but don't kill yourselfs at the gym.

Hello all I am new to this forum and I think it is amazing. With that said I am one of the "lucky" ones that Metro-Gel works for me but then afterwards I get a yeast infection. I took the diflucan after my metro-gel treatment, but I think it has returned. Yesterday I had a moderate amount of discharge and it was salty smelling. I had pain during intercourse on Monday and its kinda itchy. Do you guys think my yeast has returned?

Also do you guys think that because my partner is uncirumcised that it could be a reason for the recurrance? Just wondering. Its really sad we have to self-diagnose but $20 to the doctor is more than I am willing to do plust he cost of a script! Where is the justice!!!!?????

I just give you my experience...from what I have learned...I gave my partner a UTI the first time we had sex. But they say (most say) that they are not passed that way. I beg to differ. Have him wash with antibacterial soap before entering you. I don't have an STD's maybe it was just a "fluke" that he got a bacterial infection? I don't think so.

I can relate... The depression and anxiety got so bad for me that I actually had to be put on Zoloft. It worked really well the first week or two but now I feel the effects decreasing. I might need to be put on something else. I also wanted to add that I might be pregnant again and thats a huge stress factor for me right at this point.

I'm so scared that the BV will get out of control like It did when I was pregnant the first time. It was AWFUL!

That's something I haven't done. =\

Good afternoon everyone,

This is just an idea....but it would be nice if we all made a "blog" and listed what we have tried..for how long...what symtoms you experience..how long you have dealing with bv..tell a joke..tell something about yourself..That way when any of us have time to do research..we have references to look at.. Sassy have you or Jewels ever tried "b" injections? If so, for how long?

Confused.

A few months back, I thought I had “cured” myself of bv with clindamcyin and contuing a daily treatment of pro-biotic supplement, Femodophilis. For the past two months, the smell (which used to be a combo of overwhelming fish and funk). I just ovulated last week, and I could tell this by the egg white type discharge (sorry TMI) for a few days. However, today, I went to the bathroom to find a little wetness in my undies and a very faint ammonia smell. The ammonia smell I also notice last month, but it went away once my period came. But then came back again shortly after ovulation. Am I to assume the BV came back? Can it be BV even though the smell goes away on its own and comes back at the same time every month? Is a slight ammonia smell normal?

Thanks,

Confused.

A few months back, I thought I had “cured” myself of bv with clindamcyin and contuing a daily treatment of pro-biotic supplement, Femodophilis. For the past two months, the smell (which used to be a combo of overwhelming fish and funk). I just ovulated last week, and I could tell this by the egg white type discharge (sorry TMI) for a few days. However, today, I went to the bathroom to find a little wetness in my undies and a very faint ammonia smell. The ammonia smell I also notice last month, but it went away once my period came. But then came back again shortly after ovulation. Am I to assume the BV came back? Can it be BV even though the smell goes away on its own and comes back at the same time every month? Is a slight ammonia smell normal?

Thanks,
[/quote]

tanten: no, a slight ammonia smell isn't normal if you're talking about the same thing I am: because I've had some other problems that weren't bv and had the same smell. Mine was a community acquired MRSA, which won't kill you like the hospital ones will, but they're very annoying and hard to get rid of. I had to take Rifampin and use weak hydrogen peroxide wash on everything. Bleach doesn't work. But the only way you can tell is if you get it cultured, and unfortunately, a doctor/lab will have to do that. Do you have a gynecologist that you like? This would be a problem for her (well, sometimes they're male and still good). Any discharge with a weird color (kind of a turquoise and or lavender) (yes, I know that sounds kind of pretty) is likely to be pseudomonas. Just another weird common bacteria but in the wrong place, it's very bad. It isn't an STD.) Good luck. (here's the rule I live by: healthy sap doesn't smell.)

Alright. I took my last Flagyl on Friday (out of a 14 day course). I'm now on Cipro for the e. coli he found in my culture. He did the usual wet prep and Affirm test. And guess what?! The Flagyl did JACK SHIT. And once again, they found a little bit of yeast on the wet prep, but it didn't show up on the Affirm. The BV didn't show up on wet prep but it DID show up on the Affirm. My nurse is just as baffled as me. There's no way this infection is going away and then just returning in such a short period of time. My problem is that it WILL NOT GO AWAY-PERIOD. I also wanted to show this to those of you that have used clindamycin:

"While some bacterial concentrations decreased for both groups, women treated with clindamycin experienced more frequent increases in bacterial concentrations of E. coli than those who were treated with metronidazole."

Taken from here http://www.innovations-report.de/html/beri...icht-35606.html

The Clindesse was my first round of treatment and only made my symptoms worse. This explains why. It gave me the E. Coli over growth. I swear, the more I read about that stuff the more I hate it.

Thanks for that citation, Morphia.

Dr. Sharon Hillier's name comes up a lot when I do my BV research. (She didn't write this, but she's cited in it.) I would sure love to ask her some questions.

Anyway, that definitely convinced me that clindamycin is not good.

Hey guys I found this and thought I would share

The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine
Activity of a Lactobacillus acidophilus–Based Douche for the Treatment of Bacterial Vaginosis
May 2007, Vol. 13, No. 4 : 435 -438


Lorenzo Drago, Ph.D.
Laboratory of Clinical Microbiology, Department of Preclinical Sciences LITA Vialba, University of Milan, Milan, Italy.
Elena De Vecchi, M.S.
Laboratory of Clinical Microbiology, Department of Preclinical Sciences LITA Vialba, University of Milan, Milan, Italy.
Lucia Nicola, M.S.
Laboratory of Clinical Microbiology, Department of Preclinical Sciences LITA Vialba, University of Milan, Milan, Italy.
Elisa Zucchetti, B.S.
Laboratory of Clinical Microbiology, Department of Preclinical Sciences LITA Vialba, University of Milan, Milan, Italy.
Maria Rita Gismondo, Ph.D.
Laboratory of Clinical Microbiology, Department of Clinical Sciences “L: Sacco,” University of Milan, Milan,Italy
Franco Vicariotto, M.D.
UO Ostetricia e Ginecologia, Niguarda Cà Granda Hospital, Milan, Italy.

Objectives: Bacterial vaginosis is characterized by alteration of the normal vaginal microflora, in which a mixed anaerobic bacterial flora becomes prevalent over the population of lacobacilli. Because administration of probiotics might be of some utility in restoring a normal flora, the present study aimed to evaluate the effect of a Lactobacillus acidophilus-strain-based douche on the vaginal environment in bacterial vaginosis.

Patients and methods: In an open-label pilot evaluation, 40 women with bacterial vaginosis as defined by Amsel's criteria were treated for 6 days with a douche containing L. acidophilus. Vaginal smears were collected from the patients and analyzed according to Nugent's criteria at the time of diagnosis, after 6 days of treatment, and again at 20 days after the last treatment. At the same times, determination of vaginal pH and a Whiff test were performed.

Results: The Nugent score decreased significantly from bacterial vaginosis or an intermediate flora toward a normal flora during treatment, and remained low during the follow-up period for almost all of the patients, indicating bacterial vaginosis in 52.5% and in 7.5% of the patients before treatment and at follow-up, respectively. After treatment, significant decreases in vaginal pH were observed, to less than pH 4.5 in 34/40 women, and the odor test became negative in all of the patients.

Conclusions: In this preliminary study, treatment of bacterial vaginosis with a vaginal douche containing a strain of L. acidophilus contributed to the restoration of a normal vaginal environment.

Hurray! Thanks pympmama!

I've been saying - probiotics is our best hope! Hopefully they'll come up with some good products soon. Cheap, easy to find, and effective!

Clidamycin=E. Coli and Strep in the vagina? Was this drug not studied before being approved? Ahh, that is scary!

Lori: I wonder if you could find a e-mail or physical address for that doctor? I would really be interested in sending a letter to someone on the things we've tried...especially someone who has expertise in the area.

Ok ladies, I'm still doing my research on estrogen and why it has worked so well for at least 3 people on this board. I found something interesting that one of the other girls talked about.

I found this:http://abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/102865/


Re: bacterial vaginosis again From jap420 [Log on to view profile] on 2007-02-04
I had been suffering from BV for a number of years. I finally got some relief when i began a birth control regimine. It is called NUVARING and has made all my symptoms go away. I have tried everything the doctor has prescribed and I have taken the Lactobilli pills and yogurts but nothing worked except for the nuvaring. Here is an exerpt from an obgyn website...
Some women using the NuvaRing® for contraception have also noticed an increase in normal vaginal discharge. This is likely due to the local presence of hormones that allows for optimal development of the good bacteria lactobacilli, which contributes to a healthy vaginal ecosystem by combating the overgrowth of yeast and offensive bacteria.
It has done wonders for my self esteem...If all else fails, I suggest you try it. It is the only consistent remedy I have been using for the past year and I have no symptoms. Real easy to use too. Just leave it in place for three weeks and take it out for one...it's not a daily hassle.

Good Luck
I think what we all have/had is atrophic vag or hormonal vag.

Hello everyone,
My doctor finally called me back, and what he said I have is vaginitis not vagnosis? What the hell? I have the fish funk (just not right now). I did a little reading about it, and well, I'm even more scared....possible liver damage if left untreated??? I hope not. I go in to see him to go over my tests on thursday.

Please don't make me move to another board cause I have itis and not osis. lol

What is the difference between the two?

Everyone find yourselfs a doctor who knows his ass from a whole the fucking ground and make sure this is not what you have!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope everyone's livers are ok.

I don't really know Sassy, but I'm scared for some of us here.....your liver can regenerate itself but only up to a certain point.

I wish I wasn't such a dumb ass and knew how to pull links!

o yeah ladies, men can pass vaginitis back to us!!

Try this link


http://bacterialvaginosisrecurrent.com/bac..._infection.html

or type in this guy and see what he says about how easy it is for doctors to make a wrong diagnosis. drbenkim. he said that we should be on different medicine (both partners) or it might be hormones but can be treated with estrogen.

I knew God would.. at least... sort this out for us.

It's kind of like saying 'a bluejay is a bird, but not all birds are blue jays'. There are numerous types of vaginitis: yeast infections, bacterial vaginosis, trichomoniasis (vaginitis caused by trichomonas vaginalis, a protozoan), chlamydia. And whatever else.... I'm sure there are numerous other ones. So he's not really saying anything. He's just saying he doesn't know what kind of vaginitis you have. He is telling you that you don't have bacterial vaginosis, but he actually hasn't told you what you have yet. I guess he did testing on you, and is waiting for those test results to come back?

If you read the small print insert that comes in the Clindamycin box, you will see that the company (Clindesse for me) clearly states that success rate for using their cream. It's hard to understand their jargon, because we aren't doctors, but the bottom line is that the numbers are all low. The company is going to put their highest and best numbers in their literature. The 3 charts state the 'Efficacy of Clindesse', and none of the numbers of percentage cure go over 64.3%. Cure in tests range from 29.5% to 64.3%. That means that all of us clearly were not in that range. We were not cured by it, so we were part of the 1/3 to 3/4's of all women that didn't kill it off - meaning that it would adapt and would grow back stronger. That is a pretty bad success rate.

What this really means is two things:
a) we are naive and trust doctors and pharmaceutical companies for no good reason.
b) if one of us figures out a cure, we should keep it under wraps, market it, sell it, and make a shit-load of money.

This is probably a good idea. To document everything in a concise way. But don't know how to do a 'blog'. Didn't Lori do a blog already? Can't we somehow link it, or put it together as a page of that blog?

I will find out Thursday whether I need treated with hormones (estrogen) or both my partner and I with an antibotic that I have never been on, nor has he been treated ever for this. I was wrongly diagnosed and I have a very STRONG feeling that most of us here have been as well.....A wiff test?

This bullshit was caused by insurance companies not wanting doctors to do any cultures. And dumbass doctors.!!

I have already been tested for STD's by the way. NONE.

The doctor I choose has "been around the block" and back a few times. I'm confident he knows what he's talking about.

Hopefully, it hasn't got so severe that it can be managed..or I will be getting myself an attorney. If it's hormonal, I'm sure it might take a while to get it balanced out. Hopefully, it hasn't caused any liver damage.

Gosh I'm really scared now. I don't know what to think or what to do, hell i don't even know what I have anymore. Am I wasting my time and money on something I dont have? A two month regiment and then no results will be completely disappointing... I've been on boric acid for a week now but still have smell. no discharge. I'm waiting for my period to end to see what happens, it's hard to tell when I'm on my period whats going on and what is what. I'm scared that I'll lose my liver and die now...

is it osis or itis? *sigh* or just estrogen?

girls, girls, relax.

vaginitis = the inflammation
vaginosis = the condition

vaginitis can be caused by vaginosis, or an std like chlamydia or trichomoniasis or gonorrhea, or some other things. the vaginosis is a subcategory which has its own subcategories of causes.

the following website clarifies the difference relatively well, but skip down to the bv heading to read about treatments, etc.

http://depts.washington.edu/nnptc/core_tra...initis_2004.pdf

Have any of you tried any of these products? I have not seen many of them on Lori's blog, so I am curious to know if anyone hasx tried any of these, and if so, what has/has not worked?

http://www.rockwellnutrition.com/BV+Protoc...+12)~~1208.html

i linked that site a while ago. i'm using yeast arrest right now, i was thinking about trying the things suggested on that site but there's just too many and they're too expensive. so i'm just using yeast arrest and fem dophilus. which seems to be working so far.

all this reading about clindesse is making me really upset. the first time i was diagnosed with bv my doctor gave me clindesse. and then i went back cause i had a yeast infection but she told me it wasn't a yeast infection (even though it was which i found out when i went back a 3rd time) but she said i still had the bv, without even checking by the way, so she gave me another clindesse. so i used it 2 times in a row. i feel like crying. it makes me so upset that i've been dealing with this almost a year and it could have been gone by now but it's not because of a stupid doctor that didn't know what she was doing. that doctor was gone by the 4th time i went back there anyway, she probably got fired.

Okay, now that I'm convinced Clindamycin is in fact evil ... have any of you read this book?

http://www.amazon.com/Book-Doctors-Complet...9742&sr=1-1

I was doing some further research on strep vaginitis, and on pp.240-241 (click on "Search Inside" and type in "strep" - I can't provide a direct link) of this book it says that Clindamycin causes the overgrowth! The previous link by CanCan said it can be caused by flagyl and clindamycin cream (e.g., clindesse), but not Clindamycin oral.

Bah, so confusing.

Anyway, I remember at least one member in this thread (from many pages back) who said that the doctor checked their discharge and found a whole lot of white blood cells, but not a lot of of the usual bacteria, and the doctor didn't know what the hell it was - well, according to this book, it's strep vaginitis! It can't really be diagnosed by a culture, because healthy people can have it. And you need to treat it with 10 days of amoxicillin. 10 days! Which causes yeast infections!

I don't know why there's so little info. on strep vaginitis out there, and why we didn't all know about it. According to this book, it's not very dangerous (thank goodness for that) but it does need to be treated.

I went ahead and ordered this book for myself. I thought it would be a good reference. Just wanted to share what I learned.

Hello, Ladies .....I must say that even though it seems to me that many of us(I myself have had many ill informed doctors) have been and or dealing with ill informed doctors...At least we are getting this information out in the open and passing it along basically exposing the real truth about clindamycin. I too was prescribed it more than once by my doctor. More power to us to be informed and stay informed...

i just wish i could have been more informed before she gave it to me. now whenever i get a prescription for ANYTHING i do research about it online first. and i just wish i did that before all this happened, but i guess you learn from your mistakes. it's just very frustrating.

and what are the symptoms of strep vaginitis? do doctors not even know when we have it? like are they diagnosing us with bv when really we have strep??? or is it not the same at all...

Hibiclense
===========
“Hibiclense douche: This is the standard of care for GBS treatment in
many European countries (that have infant mortality rates better than
ours). At the beginning of labor, you douche with chlorhexidine
gluconate (brand name: Hibiclense). This product is available over the
counter at the drugstore.”

has anyone heard of that before??

Gentian Violet
==============
This is an old but effective remedy. Before all the modern remedies
for yeast infection, Gentian Violet was used, and can still be
obtained at some pharmacies. Warning – it will turn your skin
(temporarily) and your underwear (permanently) purple!
“…another possibly irritating, but effective treatment is the
application to the vaginal walls of gentian violet using a long cotton
swab once daily for 14 days.”






“I handle GBS by giving women information on it regarding the risks,
treatment, etc. and leave it up to them whether to culture or not. If
they choose to culture, I do it at about 35 weeks. If the culture is
positive, I give them the choice of herbal protocol and reculturing in
two weeks to make sure the herbs worked. Or they can take antibiotics
orally when labor starts.

The herbal protocol I recommend is as follows (it works for GBS,
trichamonas, or chlamydia):
Add 1/2 teaspoon goldenseal tincture to 2 cups body temperature spring
water. Add this to a douche bag and douche once a day for a week. Also
take 500 mg. golden seal (or 1/4 tsp. tincture) orally TID. Then, use
a lactobacillus implant daily for 2 weeks (a gelatin capsule of high
quality lactobacillus inserted vaginally once or twice a day works
well).

It is important to teach women how to douche properly. The bathtub
with a towel to lie on is a good place to do it. She can put some
pillows under her hips to elevate them. Make sure the tip of the
douche is NOT inserted into the cervix. Have her undo the douche clip
until the air is out of the line and reclip. As she slowly lets the
fluid out, she should hold her labia closed with the fingers of one
hand. This allows the vaginal tissues to expand and the fluid to wash
over all the mucosa. As she holds her labia closed, her vaginal mucosa
will balloon out. Some fluid will run out anyway, but keeping as much
in as possible for at least a few minutes is recommended.

Be sure to reculture after the two weeks are up to make sure the GBS
is gone. Then occasional douching, oral goldenseal tincture, and
vaginal acidophillus is recommended so she doesn't recolonize. I don't
have a definite routine on that.”

i'm doing research and just posting things that i find that may be helpful

Hibiclense
===========
“Hibiclense douche: This is the standard of care for GBS treatment in
many European countries (that have infant mortality rates better than
ours). At the beginning of labor, you douche with chlorhexidine
gluconate (brand name: Hibiclense). This product is available over the
counter at the drugstore.”




I use Hibiclens to sterilize reusable equipment and I would never use it as a douche. To be perfectly honest, overdouching is responsible for a lot of bv. If I were any of you, I wouldn't use Hibiclens or any strong antibacterial soap on my body, because that's exactly the kind of thing that encourages bacterial overgrowth just as using too many antibiotics has created antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria. And douching (while it seems logical) disturbs the natural vaginal flora. The fact that I have rarely douched but am very clean is probably one reason I've only had bv twice in my life.

p.s. Doctors use gentian violet to remove genital warts so I'm not sure I'd use it on myself.

Thanks for all the information on gentian violet. I am too scared to try the douching though. I have had bad experiences with it. My suggestion is that if anyone is going to try it, please do not use regular tap water. There is a reason why we chlorinate and fluorinate it. It's so we kill bacteria in it. So, I think using it as a douche would also kill all our friendly vaginal bacteria. Please run to the grocery store, and buy distilled water.

thanks! i wasn't going to try it i just didn't even know what it was so i figured i'd ask.

wow i cant believe all that i am reading. i am so confused about all of this. i am 30 years old currently with BV and it has been reoccuring for at least two years. i didnt realize that strep infection causes bv. i had group b strep with both of my deliveries and had to have penicillin in an iv. i am also currently pregnant with my third baby. i am very concerned about bv because of the effects it can have on baby. lets see since ive been pregnant,11wks, ive had bv 3 times. first clindess, then keflex????never heard of that being effective. then i was still having symptoms and they said i was fine after looking under a microscope. i did a urine sample the day i was there at the doctor. the office called me the next day and said i had gardnerella in my urine and gave me metrogel. first of if it is strep how do they test for it and second how fo they treat it?????? can anyone help me????????

Hello Katt! Welcome.

Strep infection doesn't cause BV - it's just *another* form of vaginitis. We've just learned that it may be caused by the antibiotics we take for BV. The symptoms are - as far as we know - a "creamy" white discharge that doesn't smell (like BV), or itches (like yeast).

We're all just learning about this, too. It's all new info.

Testing for group B strep during pregnancy is, I believe, routine. Since you've been dianosed with it, you've obviously been tested. And since you've had it before, you're probably going to get IV antibiotics again for your next delivery. As long as the doctor is aware of that situation, and you get to the hospital in time, I think you'll be fine. You might want to consult the pregnancy thread for more specific info.