Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Bacterial Vaginosis--or--embarrassing bad smell
The BUST Lounge > Forums > Our Bodies, Our Hells
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109
neverending
Eralc Alegna:"I told my boyfriend the other night that we should start a support group: Women With The Rot and the Men Who Love Them. I seriously pity him..." You are too funny! I'll sign up;) LOL!

LADIES:Sorry to keep stressing this but I really feel I have come across something that might help you all because it has helped me a lot.

READ THIS:
the pill thins the lining of the uterus to decrease menstrual bleeding, but can also thin the vaginal epithelium leading to dryness.As sex hormones, estrogens are produced in one tissue, the ovary. They are released into the blood stream, and have their effect on target tissues. Those target tissues have receptors specific for recognition of the estrogen. The estrogens effect on the target tissues is to produce specific tissue growth. Target tissues for estrogens include breast tissue, vaginal tissue, vulvar tissue, endometrial and uterine tissue. Other tissues reported to be target tissues for estrogen include bone, brain, and cardiovascular tissue.

Young women who are not on contraceptive medications have a very high level of estrogen. Women who are on contraceptive medications have a very low level of estrogen(NOTICE HOW IT SAYS LOW), for the intent of contraceptives is to suppress normal ovarian function and prevent ovulation, therefore preventing a possible pregnancy. As each woman normally ages, her level of estrogen declines yearly until menopause, where the ovary is depleted of all ovum, and all estrogen production ceases. "Perimenopause" is the ill-defined time frame before and after menopause. Perimenopause could more appropriately be termed "premenopause", for the estrogen levels for five to ten years before actual menopause (normally age 50) causes a host of signs and symptoms of inadequate estrogen in its target tissues. Perimenopause depression could be inadequate estrogen for its target brain tissue. Osteoporosis is the thinning of trabecular bone associated with genetic predisposition, low calcium intake, inadequate exercise, and low estrogen levels.
neverending
more:

Estrogen may resist infection by increasing the number of lactobacilli, the microorganism that fights infection by lowering the vaginal pH levels and preventing E. coli from adhering to vaginal cells. Estrogen creams and estrogen-releasing rings have been associated with a lower incidence of recurring urinary tract infections than women not using such topical estrogens. A 2003 study indicated however, that the estrogen ring had no effect on lactobacilli and less effective than the standard preventive antibiotic regimen. Oral hormone replacement therapies, which contain estrogen, do not seem to provide the same benefit as the topical forms, and in any case are proving to have health risks, including an increased risk for breast cancer and heart disease. Evidence is lacking about whether vaginal forms of estrogen have not been associated with these risks.
free_spirit
Unlurking to say:

What a great idea to poll the thread...Now someone can post the running stats...(I think this thread should have a sub thread just to track the stats, keeping it seperate from the other posts, because you all seem so serious in finding the cure and this seems like a great foundation and starting point)

(I would have also asked how many people had abortions or were ever pregnant (as I heard that it is linked to bv (i forgot why though) ) and I would ask what is your background (black, white, etc) to find where it is most prevalent.

I really think that you girls are onto some ground breaking stuff...

Also it seems that most of the women here had it more several years, so maybe all women have it and different things trigger it making it worse in some women and not in others...Maybe some treat at the onsset and some are embarrased and treat once the condition has worsened...(just thinking about all the info gathered so far)

I personally think that BV comes from men who sleep around and have female fluids from other women that they have not washed or cleaned properly in their genital area, and they give other women other womens bacteria, mixing up different peoples bodily fluids which shouldnt be done in any area, let alone such a sensitive area as the vagina...



Someone (who has time) should emerge as a leader for this thread (to monitor the progress, success, and failures of the treatments (seeing which treatments lasted the longest, etc. and why? and what chemical or ingredient was specifically in the treatment) And someone should officially spearhead the quest for the cure (whoever cures this will obviously become rich as so many women will need the treatment of it)...
(this may seem so long winded, just a thought though)

The person should contact a lot of doctors and medical boards, etc. and petition them to research further. They should keep meticulous track of what everyone has going on with their individual bv case, and have doctors come look at all the research, etc. done here, and results you all have posted here to see what needs to be done, and find out why somethings are working more versus others.

This is so jumbled, but I hope someone understands what I am trying to say....And I know that this would be a lot to do, and it could be me who does it, I just wanted to put this out here...
And some of you will be thinking who has the time or wants to devote their life to finding a cure for bacterial vaginosis, but my reasoning behind this whole post is all it takes is one person to make a difference, and we can always dream can't we?! Women should not have to live with an embarassing and disgusting thing such as this. Even though it seems that a lot of people have it, it seems to be a shortage of awareness or lack of concern...So maybe BV needs a voice and or a spokes person.

Rambling so much...Oh well...
Maybe all of my posts from today should be in the eniberated (damn I spelled that all wrong) ramblings thread.

*Gulps last tasty swallow of cocktail*
pympmama1
1. age? 30
2. how long have you been battling BV? I first got it when I was ten and my mom was told no bubble bath or smelly soaps for me... the next bout with it did not come until I was 17 and became sexually active.. it goes away and comes back... when I was 17 my obgyn recommended douching intead of not douching. This time 3 and a half years
3. not sexually active and have not been for 2 yrs .... very fearful that men will be grossed out and think that i am unclean... before that I was in a 2yr relationship...
4. discharge and odor
5. 10 since the BA the smell has gone away thank god small little miracle
6 . 7
7. metrogel, flagyl BA( it works)
8. what do you think originally caused your BV? I think it is something i ate or stopped eating, soap used, being black, and not drinking milk .... I use to be able to drink milk now I can't I am alergic
9. none
10. 2... I think the doc are just as clueless as the rest of us as to what caused it... what pisses me off is that... we can clone sheep and make artifical wombs but we can not find a cause for bv.... When dr told me that many things could have cause it....Well how do i stop doing what ever caused this if you can not definitively tell me what caused it mad.gif
11. regular and 100% cotton
autumnbreeze
"What the hell is pau d'arco? I'm interested in trying anything."

Eralc Alegna: Pau D'arco is considered an herb. It is the inner bark of a tree found in South America. People there use it for yeast infections, some STD's, cancer, etc. It is supposed to have anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-viral properties. I recently learned of it when I was researching BV. On a forum similar to this one, a lady said that she had BV when she was younger. She douched with pau d'arco tea for 2 or 3 nights straight and the BV never came back. I thought "what the hell--I'll give it a try". There is a lot of info on the net so you can do your own research but here are a couple of links. I bought it in bark form and boiled it & strained it for tea. I did not have any side effects but I don't think it is meant to be used long term. Oh, it does make you pee! So I guess it's also good if you need to lose some water weight.

http://www.greatvistachemicals.com/herbal-...pau-d-Arco.html

http://www.allnatural.net/herbpages/pau-d-arco.shtml


"how long have you been battling BV? I first got it when I was ten"

pympmama1: Wow, at 10?! Just curious.. when it started, did you already have your period at that time?
latinrican
autumnbreeze,

Where do you get the pau d'arco and how many days have you used it already?

free spirit,

I totally agree with you on everything. I sometimes google to see if any dr's are doing those clinical research study groups for BV around ATL, GA because Im sooooooo willing to jump in and tell them "study me , study me" lol.... or If only a dr is willing to chk out this thread and figure something out for us.
pianogirl


Hi Ladies,

I was wondering if anyone tried a strong Probiotics substance (oral) in combination with the boric acid. I am at work so I was unable to read this whole report but I found some interesting information on the web. I hope this helps some.

Thanks
PG



http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1140735
Eralc Alegna
QUOTE(pianogirl @ Oct 26 2006, 09:59 AM) *

Hi Ladies,

I was wondering if anyone tried a strong Probiotics substance (oral) in combination with the boric acid. I am at work so I was unable to read this whole report but I found some interesting information on the web. I hope this helps some.

Thanks
PG
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1140735

That was written TWO FREAKING YEARS AGO and still nothing!?!?! I mean I'm beside myself that someone actually cares and is researching for us, but what the hell? all that proof and they're still throwing anti-biotics at us which are only compounding our problem. Develop a probiotic vaginal insert already and SAVE US.

And Neverending, interesting about the pill/low levels of estrogen thing. Maybe I'll refuse to take it now. I was always of the impression that the opposite occurred
chachaheels
There are a variety of probiotic preparations specially made for direct insertion in the vagina.
Your health food store should have at least one or two brands designed to be used for just this purpose. One brand in particular that comes to mind is "New Roots". The bottle comes with an inserter and just the capsules--you use one a day until the bottle runs out.

Of course it helps if you also take probiotic supplements, or eat a number of lacto-fermented foods which feature the probiotics and their enzymes naturally. Most of us don't, our dairy products are dead if not worse...and many of us don't have any access to lacto-fermented foods like kvasses, home made sauerkraut, raw milk butters, creams, and cheeses, or yogurts. So the supplementation is your next best bet.

Try to find probiotics to take orally with more than 12 billion live organisms if you're in an active infection. If not, a daily dose of any standard commercial product you'll find in your health food store will keep you in good shape on an ongoing basis.

The Birth control pill's real damage to the body in terms of cause for this illness isn't just a result of the artificially lowered estrogen level it creates, but the overall imbalance this kind of tampering creates to all organs and glands in the body. Every single gland which produces or reacts to any particular hormone anywhere in the body is affected by this imposed state, and each of those will respond in a desperate attempt to try to "balance things out" by producing other hormones/not producing those hormones/becoming insensitive and unresponsive to any particular hormone so much that other glands have to produce much more again. "Balance" in hormones is extremely difficult to restore once artificial hormones are used in any way in the body; the pill's particularly bad because people use it indefinitely, many women use it for many, many years. Most people don't stay on other hormones that length of time (things like cortisone, corticosteroids, prednisone/prednosilone). That imbalance can be a major reason for susceptibility to BV.

Pau D'arco is a tree bark (a botanical medicine) you can use as a tea or in capsule form. It's an effective anti-fungal. This should really be used under the supervision of an herbalist, and for a short period of time where your reactions can be monitored and its use adjusted.
autumnbreeze
QUOTE(latinrican @ Oct 26 2006, 10:29 AM) *

autumnbreeze,

Where do you get the pau d'arco and how many days have you used it already?




latinrican: I bought it at a health food store. You can get tea bags, capsules, or the bark. I got the bark because most of the tea bags and capsules have additives. I did 1 douche, then drank 1 cup for 7 days. As I said before, I didn't have any adverse side effects. Personally, I don't think it can be any more harmful than Boric Acid--which you cannot drink or ingest or get on your skin. I think it acts like a "natural antibiotic" so you would need to follow up with the probiotics. Good luck.
pianogirl

Hi Ladies,

I was wondering if the users of boric acid would share their regimen? I ask because I was on it 3 weeks straight and stopped because my period came and the smell was funny again after about 3 - 4 days of my period. Anyway I am back on the BA 2x starting in the morning and night (I was just doing it in the evenings the first time around).

It kills the smell and discharge but my period seems to have made it come back. I have concluded that the good bacteria is necessary, however now I wonder should be used in combination with the BA. The question now is what is the strongest course to enable the healthy bacteria to gain some strength or rebuild itself? Should we use both the BA (killing the bad bacteria) and something for good bacteria together vaginally?
I also started taking acidophilous by orally as of today.

Any ideas please?

I miss the days when I smelled like nothing (maintenance free) sad.gif


Thanks
PG
chachaheels
Boric acid should be used in 600g. suppositories, once or twice a day, for a maximum of 2 weeks. Then there should be a rest period--and you shouldn't have to use them again. They can minimize discomfort, but the ideal situation with boric acid suppositories is to use them under the supervision of a naturopath.

Again, using the boric acid for this limited time is a good start, but if you're still have the symptoms, find a naturopath who knows what he or she is doing to undertake your case. Conventional medical doctors don't know about alternatives such as the boric acid, botanical medicines, or nutritional supplements, so if you really want to know how to use these to your advantage, it pays to go to someone who is knowledgeable.

Pau D'arco is, in fact, a herbal drug and as such it should be used under the supervision of a trained professional who has studied the effects of that drug on the body and is trained in the use of herbal medicines. Therefore--see someone who is learned in herbal or botanical medicines for supervision while you use this drug, as you would any other drugs.

Herbal medicines of all kinds are never meant to be used indefinitely or without the supervision of an herbalist. MDs are not required to know about these drugs; neither are pharmacists or nurses, neither are clerks in health food stores. They're powerful medicines; they are not like conventional drugs that are supposed to be used by one and all forever. If you just want relief, use them cautiously until you find someone to work with who is trained; if you want to actually get better and stop suffering from this disease once and for all, you must work with a trained professional.
neverending
latinrican:I'm around the same area!;) Try clinical trials.gov or something like that and it should pull up everything in your area.
klee
Okay- long post but check out this article here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract

I've read a few articles from this site and it's been really interesting! Apparently this is basically what is wrong with all of us: "Our results showed that women with BV lack lactobacilli, especially hydrogen peroxide producing ones." Essentially healthy women have higher amounts of lactic acid and hydrogen peroxide producing lactobacilli. And smokers do an even worse job at generating this stuff. Apparently a really good strain of lactobacilli/lactic acid is found in molasses!

So I tried this out since I get the amine smell after my period - OFTEN. And I see that some doctors actually recommend some sort of wash after menses. Anyway, all is well right now. And hydrogen peroxide is cheap. I'm guessing a "vaginal irrigation" is a douche. I actually got in the shower and laid on my back propping my hips way up using my legs and used a little funnel and just held still for about 3 minutes. I chose 3 minutes after reading this here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...st_uids=8876361

It's really not that big of a pain in the ass considering other treatments and it's possible that some of us may need to do this monthly after our periods. What I'm hoping is that doing this and figuring out my probiotics will help me get my cooch in order and after a while won't have a monthly bv episode.
pympmama1
How many of you smoke... I keep seeing report about idividuals that smoke are more susceptiable to bv
I smoke... but even when I stopped smoking for a year ... it did not go away... I am curious ... how many on the board... have the same behavior.....which could be a contributing factor to our recurrences
pianogirl
I do not smoke so I do not think somoking is the culprit for me. sad.gif

\\


Klee do you add water to the hydrogen peroxide?

Also are you still using boric acid?

I started drinking kefir and taking a pill form of probiotics and am still on boric acid.

latinrican
Pianogirl.... I used the Boric Acid once a day every other day for 2 weeks. I was a little scared to use it every day. My period came on and then the smell came back. I got back on it but used one capsule about every 3 to 4 days. My goal was just to try to use the least amount of BA capsules as possible. Im now using it once a week and hopefully can just get off of it indefinitely. Im on my period now so Im curious to see if the smell will come back.

Neverending....same area , huh? Well we need to build a coffee shop and name it "BV" and name all of our coffees after each medication everyone has tried ....lol. ***sigh*** (trying to add a lil humor) but thanks for the website...I will definitely chk it out.

Pympmama1.... I do not smoke and never have.





autumnbreeze
I've never been a smoker.

klee: Good article. I recently tried the hydrogen peroxide douche..it worked temporarily. I read some other articles about probiotics and BV. It seems that L. acidophilus alone may not be enough. Also, the good bacteria may be killed by stomach acid when taken orally and if it does make it through, it has a hard time colonizing and reproducing. So I'm thinking maybe I should increase intake of the probiotics. I wish there was a high-potency lactobacilli injection (or something of the sort) we could get from the doctor.

Contemporary Issues in Women's Health: The Rationale for Probiotics in Female Urogenital Healthcare

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1140735



Eralc Alegna
Chachaheels - what would we do without you? I'm so glad you're here! How can I find a good herbalist though? I have no idea where to look and how to guage credibility. I'm definitely refusing the pill now though, I knew that s@#% wasn't right.
Oh yea, used to be a smoker. I've quit like 5 different times but for good at lent last year. besides the occasional drunkin indulgence. Once I read that smoking could be a factor in BV they were gone!
And I tried the hydrogen peroxide undilluted everyday for like a month and nothing... but I guess everyone is different. I could only find a 10ml syringe though and just let it run out, i didn't hold it in.
oh and chacha, i've been using the boric for about 3 weeks 2x a day and my symptoms have improved a bit but it is by no means gone. I should quit using it then? for how long?

* sorry, naturopath. Maybe i really should push myself to this raw food diet. Would it give me a chance of restoring ballance in my hormones and whatever else modern medicine has destroyed for me?
klee
I smoke but probably go through about a pack and a half a week...so not a ton. But, this is a good reason to quit.

I think the trick w/the hydrogen peroxide is to actually keep the stuff in there for a few minutes. The type of bacteria that likes to create havoc in our cooch does not like oxygen...which is what hydrogen peroxide provides and I used it straight from the bottle since that's 3%. So when I used the funnel, I used my feet on the sides of my tub to really prop up my hips almost straight up. Keeping the funnel in place will help the liquid stay inside. The first study had the women using h-p for a week.

I've heard other people say that this doesn't work and everyone is different. But, I feel like this might be more natural and apparently has shown to help balance some women's flora in clinical trails. And hydrogen peroxide has no side effects and this rests a little more easily on my mind - if it's working, which it is. But seriously, I'm kinda coming to terms with dealing with some sort of bv maintenance right after my period.
neverending
Here is something else I've found:

Researchers suggest that estrogen may resist infection by increasing the number of lactobacilli, the micro-organisms that fight infection by lowering the vaginal pH levels and preventing E. coli from adhering to vaginal cells. Taking oral estrogen does not seem to provide the same benefit as the topical forms, and in any case is proving to have some health risks.
WHY DON'T DOCTORS JUST GIVE ESTROGEN INSTEAD OF BIRTH CONTROL?I WOULD MUCH RATHER DO THIS INSTEAD BECAUSE I'VE BEEN MARRIED FOR SO LONG AND I WOULD LOVE CHILDREN.DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF ESTROGEN IS SAFE TO USE AND CAN I BUY IT ON THE INTERNET?
pianogirl


Hi Neverending

I went to the health food store to buy kefir and I saw estrogen pills. If you have a nearby healthfood store you should check it out.

neverending
THANKS PIANOGIRL! I will check it out.

LADIES MAYBE THIS MIGHT WORK FOR SOME OF YOU.

Bacterial vaginosis (BV) is a polymicrobial infection of the vagina and should not be considered an exclusively sexually transmitted disease. We describe the case of a 17-year-old female virgin adolescent with recurrent malodorous vaginal discharge for 6 months. Before referral to us she had been treated unsuccessfully with conservative treatment options. Our investigation revealed Gardnerella vaginalis as the responsible factor for the vaginal infection. Because metronidazole treatment had failed as monotherapy, a new method was applied. Repeated vaginal washings with 3% H2O2, 15% NaCl and 10% providone iodine were initiated. At the end of each washing, vaginal walls were thoroughly cleaned up with a small gauze. After 10 days of treatment the odor and the vaginal discharge had ceased and 12 months later no relapse had occurred. It seems to be reasonnable to use this kind of treatment in recurrent BV.
neverending
JUST POSTING FOR MY OWN RECORDS BECAUSE I'M GOING TO PRINT ALL OF THIS AND TAKE IT WITH ME TO MY NEXT DOCTORS APPOINTMENT.

Estrogen supports the growth of Lactobacillus, which helps maintain an acidic vaginal flora. This in turn creates an unsuitable environment for bacterial growth. Other examples of host defense mechanisms can be found in TABLE 3.4

The vaginal epithelium, which is highly estrogen dependent, becomes flattened and loses glycogen which leads to a decrease in lactobacillus, lactic acid, and a rise in vaginal pH. These alterations affect the vaginal microbial population and put aging women at a greater risk for developing bacterial infections.

With the loss of estrogen, the vaginal pH changes from a normally acidic low to a higher, more alkaline pH. This less acidic environment discourages the growth of important protective organisms, lactobacillus which acts as a bacterial guard against abnormal bacteria and yeasts. In the absence of lactobacillus, these "bad guys" overgrow and can cause discharge, irritation, and give rise to increased urinary tract infections.

The loss of estrogen also produces a change in the vaginal pH from a normally acidic low to a higher, more alkaline pH. This less acidic environment discourages the growth of important protective organisms such as lactobacillus, which act as a bacterial guard against abnormal bacteria and yeasts. In the absence of lactobacillus, bacterial vaginal infections may occur more frequently, causing discharge and irritation, and contributing to increased urinary tract infections.(THIS IS PROBABLY WHY WE CAN TAKE ALL THE acidophilus WE WANT BUT ARE STILL UNABLE TO BALANCE THE VAGINAL PH BECAUSE THEY(lactobacillus) DON'T EVEN GET A CHANCE TO GROW.LOOK AT THE 2ND SENTENCE AND NOTICE HOW IT SAYS "DISCOURAGES THE GROWTH OF IMPORTANT PROTECTIVE ORGANISMS SUCH AS LACTOBACILLUS".THIS EXPLAINS WHY THE INFECTION KEEPS COMING BACK NO MATTER WHAT WE DO.)

Since estrogen has a major role in maintaining the health and function of not just the vagina, but all tissues including the uterus, urinary bladder, and urethra, low levels of the hormone may cause these organs to weaken and shrink. When the bladder is affected, urinary incontinence, infection or painful urination may occur.

Women who are on contraceptive medications have a very low level of estrogen for the intent of contraceptives is to suppress normal ovarian function and prevent ovulation, therefore preventing a possible pregnancy.

A decrease in estrogen results in several vaginal changes. The vaginal lining becomes thinner and more fragile resulting in an increased risk of bacterial infection.

Small amounts of topical estrogen applied over a few weeks to the vaginal and vulvar tissues typically result in a dramatic response, with thickening, lubrication, and return of elasticity to the tissues

Because topical estrogen products contain unopposed estrogen, there is the possibility that they could cause endometrial proliferation, hyperplasia, or carcinoma

Decreased estrogen levels cause the vaginal pH to become more alkaline, typically with levels greater than 5.0. Microscopic examination of the vaginal secretions often reveals decreased lactobacilli, and can also be used to rule out other causes of vaginitis (e.g., bacterial vaginosis, candidiasis, and trichomoniasis).[1] If the diagnosis is still uncertain after the history, physical examination, and testing described, a smear from the upper third of the vaginal wall can be sent for cytologic examination. Typically, there will be decreased superficial cells and increased basal and parabasal cells with atrophic vaginitis.[3]

With normal use of vaginal estriol cream at the dose you been prescribed — which is standard — side effects are very rare. A few individuals are allergic to the cream base with which the pharmacist mixes the estriol. If that occurs, the base can be changed.

The vaginally-applied dosages of estriol effective for relief of vaginal dryness result in negligible systemic absorption. That means you don’t have to worry about breast or uterine cancer being stimulated by vaginal estriol. Estriol is a weak bioidentical estrogen that is produced in particularly high amounts during pregnancy. It has a very robust local effect on the estrogen receptors in vaginal tissue, thus reducing vaginal dryness and thickening vaginal mucosa in a matter of a few days or weeks.

At this time, estriol is available only through formulary pharmacies in this country, although it has a long history of routine use in Europe. The pharmacist prepares it as a cream for application with a syringe. You draw a half-gram of cream into the syringe and place it deep within the vagina. It’s a good idea to take your finger and spread a little around the opening of the vagina and the outer third of the urethra, as well, which is just under the vaginal surface at about 12 o’clock. Start with 0.5 grams, twice per day for one week. This will build up the vaginal tissue effectively. Then decrease to 0.5 grams, once per day. By the third week you will probably be able to decrease to a maintenance dose of 0.5 grams, twice per week. It’s best to apply the cream several hours before intercourse to allow the tissue adequate time for absorption. A small amount won’t hurt your partner, however.

No woman should have to suffer from urinary or vaginal symptoms that are the result of changing estrogen levels, whether this occurs due to excessive stress, following childbirth, during perimenopause or at any other life transition. Estriol is a great solution when the over-the-counter remedies aren’t enough. And there is essentially no risk. (See Supporting Reference 2.)
Estriol Helps Maintain Healthy Vaginal Tissue

Vaginal dryness and atrophy, urinary frequency, and repeat urinary tract infections are problems that many women experience during perimenopause, menopause, and other periods of estrogen decline. These symptoms occur because falling estrogen levels can lead to thinning of the vaginal and urethral tissue.

Estriol has a very robust local effect on the many estrogen receptors in these tissues and can be useful in reducing vaginal dryness and thickening skin and mucosa in a matter of a few days or weeks. Studies show estriol also lowers vaginal pH, promoting a healthy environment for the growth of protective flora, which may then help prevent urinary tract infections. Most often, a small amount of estriol in an individually compounded cream or suppository is prescribed for use two or three times a week

latinrican
Here's some more info about the hydrogen peroxide that you all may want to read.

http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/vagInfections.html
autumnbreeze
QUOTE(neverending @ Oct 27 2006, 11:19 PM) *

THANKS PIANOGIRL! I will check it out.

LADIES MAYBE THIS MIGHT WORK FOR SOME OF YOU.

Bacterial vaginosis (BV) is a polymicrobial infection of the vagina and should not be considered an exclusively sexually transmitted disease. We describe the case of a 17-year-old female virgin adolescent with recurrent malodorous vaginal discharge for 6 months. Before referral to us she had been treated unsuccessfully with conservative treatment options. Our investigation revealed Gardnerella vaginalis as the responsible factor for the vaginal infection. Because metronidazole treatment had failed as monotherapy, a new method was applied. Repeated vaginal washings with 3% H2O2, 15% NaCl and 10% providone iodine were initiated. At the end of each washing, vaginal walls were thoroughly cleaned up with a small gauze. After 10 days of treatment the odor and the vaginal discharge had ceased and 12 months later no relapse had occurred. It seems to be reasonnable to use this kind of treatment in recurrent BV.



neverending: Thanks. This is my first time hearing about the NaCl. Do you know if the H2O2, NaCl, and providone iodine were all mixed together and applied or given separately?



neverending
autumnbreeze:I'm not sure how they did this.I guess they did one at a time.Sorry I can't be more help to you.

Ladies:
HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE TAKEN BIRTH CONTROL?
i_hate_sports
neverending:

I've been on several different birth control pills, then nuvaring continuously for the past 10 years (age 16-25)

I went off last week and do not plan on going back on after reading about low levels of estrogen being a possible cause.
pianogirl
QUOTE(neverending @ Oct 28 2006, 11:31 AM) *

autumnbreeze:I'm not sure how they did this.I guess they did one at a time.Sorry I can't be more help to you.

Ladies:
HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE TAKEN BIRTH CONTROL?



I was on seasonale for 7 months I started gettig bv 3 months into taking bc pills never again. sad.gif
pianogirl


I've heard other people say that this doesn't work and everyone is different. But, I feel like this might be more natural and apparently has shown to help balance some women's flora in clinical trails. And hydrogen peroxide has no side effects and this rests a little more easily on my mind - if it's working, which it is. But seriously, I'm kinda coming to terms with dealing with some sort of bv maintenance right after my period.
[/quote]


Klee let us know how long have you been using hygrogen peroxide.


Thanks
jewelscando
I smoke. And I'm sure it's slowing down the healing of this crap. I'm going to the Doctor on Wednesday for this skin eating disease rash I have that WON'T GO AWAY!!! sad.gif I'm going to ask her about the Estrogen since I am 37 and have had a Hysterectomy.

By the way, had sex Last night and no smell. What are the odds of that. Because trust me, the smell is there. Just didn't show itself.

I will let you all know how the doctor goes.
chachaheels
Eralc Alegna, the body's ability to heal itself is limitless. No one can say for certain what it can or can't do in each and every case. Everyone is very different, and no illness is simply "biological" or strictly physical in origin. We're just not constructed that way. So, some times what works for others with the same ailment may not work for you--you must factor in and address other factors into your health, factors many people like to think of as "holistic". What makes you susceptible to illness will be very different from what makes others susceptible, even when we're talking about the same illness! So we can never ignore the other factors in our entire lives and the roles they may play in our health.

Because this is true it is possible to restore health even if so much has been made to take place in the body via suppressive drugs and therapies. Every single case is different--but the key is trying to understand and know yourself and what it is in your life which makes these illnesses possible. It's the only way we can make the changes we need to make in our lives to bring health back.

I'm not sure where you are, but if you're in the US or Canada you can seek out a regulatory body or society which connects herbalists as practitioners but also sets standards for education and practice in your state or province. Organisations like this will accept only qualified practitioners as members and they will be able to provide you with some referrals for people who practice in your area. You want to find someone who has a basic foundation in the medical sciences; but more importantly you want someone who has studied botanical medicine theory, chemistry, and pharmacology (or what is often called pharmacognosy) and has completed some supervised clinic work. Any medical therapy requires a basic minimum of 5 years of study combining all of these disciplines as they apply to the specific treatment method. After you check for those qualifications, make sure you spend a few minutes talking to the practitioner to get a sense about what the consultation will involve, how they interact with you, how they decide which medicine to your in your case, and what they charge (if money is an issue, always ask about a sliding scale because you want to find someone who will try to accomodate you).

If you wish to find a naturopath, the same idea applies--seek out a regulatory body in your state or province and ask what their standards for membership include, then ask for qualified referrals in your area. Naturopaths are like the GPs of alternative medicine in that they study a little bit of various treatment modalities--but often they are required to choose a specialty and dedicate the majority of their studies to that treatment method. If you want to stick with herbal or botanical medicine, seek out an ND who specializes in using herbs. You can ask them to make suggestions in other modalities--such as with nutrition; in general I find good NDs will stick to the modality you request or the one they know best to get good results with each client. Many NDs, however, will try to use a bit of everything on you--this is not a recommended approach because many modalities are simply not meant to be used together (for example: homeopathy and herbs should not be used together--there's no need and one treatment can actually be hindered by the other one; herbs and nutritional therapies, on the other hand, often work very well together). Again, I highly recommend the quick, 10 minute or so phone interview with the NDs who've been referred to you so you get a "feel" for who they are, and what to expect with their treatment in terms of how they practice. Being able to feel like you can work easily with the practitioner makes the biggest difference in your success.

As for the boric acid, I'd stop for a little while and just let myself recover a bit. It's difficult for people to understand this, but with any medicine they will experience changes which may improve their situation; but continued use will create symptoms in the body which you don't want. All the drug effects can be experienced--from healing ones to ones which we mistakenly call "side" effects, which are really just more effects of the substance. Boric acid can be very healing if used properly, however long term use or use of too much of the substance will create effects as bad as or worse than the ailment you originally treated...that's why it's important to have someone who is trained in using the substance monitor your case. Boric acid is wonderful as a disinfectant in the body--it can kill off some of the organisms linked to the illness you experience--but overuse seems to weaken the body's own defenses against these organisms all together. After all, BV is much, much more than just the microorganisms involved.

As for the raw food diet, I treat my patients with nutritional therapies too and I always encourage more raw food in the diet in general--but I do believe we have inherited a great deal of knowledge about intensifying nutrient availability in foods through cooking methods and techniques, so I don't believe raw everything is healthy at all. Certainly, the raw food diets people like to push nowadays are strictly vegetarian or vegan, which I don't think suits everyone just fine (I think raw meat foods are also required in many diets, and they should also be eaten on occasion). Many people NEED to eat meat and if they choose a vegetarian or vegan diet they must supplement (which is really not ideal) or their health will not improve but rather decline.
neverending
Called Doctor office today and I am requesting estriol estrogen.I hope they just give it to me without having to come in.I heard estroil is supposed to be the safe estrogen.Does anyone know about this form of estrogen?
pepper
chacha, maybe we could take this question to the general health question thread but i was curious about your statement that some people need to eat meat.
fyi, it's only a very small faction of raw foodists who eat raw meat (raw eggs, dairy, and/or other creatures ei bugs). even within that community they are considered extremists (the raw meat eaters anyhow). some of them let it rot first, a practice i have never understood.

are there some natural ways to increase estrogen in the body? i can't imagine that supplementing hormones would be so great in the long run.
pianogirl


Hello Ladies,


I have found myself a holistic doctor. I spoke with her today in regards to my condition she says it's probably a hormonal condition. I have an appointment with her 2 weeks from today. She has also told me the condition is very common. I will let you know what she says when I see her also she says the issue needs to be address internally that is why the infection or smell returns. She says bc plls alter the vaginal flora. The appointments are rather expensive $170 initial visit and $70 afterwards. However this infection is really or has really killed my libedo and self confidence. I feel disgusting and depressed.


Anyway I just wanted to share this with you guys.


Thanks,

PG
neverending
pianogirl: I think we all feel disgusted and depressed! It got to the point where I hated being around people. This is a condition that we just can't help.People use to make fun of me saying I smelled like ammonia or other things and I finally snapped on one person, so now I'm the big bitch on campus.Go figure!My aunt even had the nerve to try to say something cruel to me and all I can think in my head is I CAN'T WAIT FOR THAT BITCH TO GET OLD BECAUSE SHE IS GOING TO NEED ME ONE DAY AND I'LL MAKE SURE I REMIND HER OF THE PAIN I FELT WHEN I NEEDED SUPPORT.WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!
Eralc Alegna
So I was at the doc last week and got a culture, and I got the call today that it was COMPLETELY NORMAL.
How the hell does that add up?!?!? The quick test they did in the office was negative too but she said there was a chance that it was due to the boric i used the morning before. Could that afect the culture too? this makes no sense. the discharge is not normal in color, volume or odor compared to what im like in between infections. I'm so lost! I'm not going to take the pill and i think im going to switch back to peroxide plus a vaginal probiotic. i'm going to go look for what chacha recommended before.

Speaking of, cha cha thank you so much for all the advice and info. do you mind if I ask what your medical backround is?
chachaheels
Pepper, I'm one of those people who suffered tremendously because I cut meat out of my diet. It's a nutrient source I absolutely needed to have to maintain, among other things, hormonal balance, emotional balance, and avoid chronic disease. Many of the initial complaints from which I suffered actually stopped all together when I added seafood to my ovo-lacto vegetarian diet, which confirmed what I suspected but never wanted to accept. I'm still dealing with some of the problems I actually created with my vegetarian diet less expediently but effectively by adding red meat back into my diet. I no longer need to supplement with anything other than cod liver oil (cause I won't eat cod liver, I'm not as fair as I "should" be, living in a northern clime...so I have to take an absorbable form of vitamins A and D or I'm in serious trouble)--plus supplements were an utter waste of money for me as I need to get my nutrients from food.

My own experience is supported in what is perhaps the only comprehensive, detailed, long-term study of long term dietary practices as they were observed in a huge variety of cultural groups from every point in the world, and that's the comprehensive scientific nutritional studies first undertaken and published by Dr. Weston Price in the 1930's. His work has of course been continued and expanded by hundreds of biochemical nutritionists and nutritional scientists and it continues even today. You can still find Price's detailed work in medical libraries everywhere; you may even be able to get a copy if his published book based on his findings (which is a little tougher to do as it isn't for sale in mass targeted retail outlets); but you can check in on the westonaprice.org site to have a look at a great deal of his findings and many of his photographic documents showing the physical effects of dietary change.

There are certain things all extremely healthy, long-lived, long-sustained peoples from every part of the world had in common in their diets: one very important one which we ignore quite easily in our own modern diet is the need for raw food in the diet. I mean raw vegetables AND raw meat foods, raw meat foods most importantly because their fats make nutrients from other foods bioavailable.

All cultures and peoples who still eat raw meat foods will "cook" the meat with other foods--eg. with some kind of acid, like a vinegar, or wine; the use of fermented, salty brines or hot mustards, or through some kind of a process which allows the greater access to nutrients (that's what the "rotting" is about--although, to be fair, I've only ever heard of this done to game and other meats which are then cooked. It's normally called "aging"). Think of dishes like steak tartar, or sushi and sashimi, or carpaccio or ceviche: The only exception I can think of to this is cuisines where raw meat sources include insects--usually no preparation is needed to intensify the nutrient amounts in those foods, as they are just eaten live. We even apply this rule to vegetable foods, too, if you think about it: that's what salad dressing is all about--a mixture of acid to break down the protein material and allow their nutrients to be released; and fat which allows the body to actually absorb and use the released nutrients. Pepper, you're french: when I think of the salads that are so recognizably french I see this rule at work all the time. One in particular is the famous typical frisee salad, which includes blue cheese, lard and vinegar dressing, and bacon along with the bitter salad green. I've also thought the french were quite astute at adding the crispened, fat rich salmon skin pieces to salads made with sweeter lettuces, just to add texture and the necessary fat content.

There's no way to naturally "increase" estrogen in the body--it's simply not what you want to do if you want hormonal balance to be achieved. Hormones go out of balance in the body for any number of reasons--it could be that you end up having too little or too much of a specific hormone because a gland which has nothing at all to do with sex hormones has become incapable or somehow hindered in functioning properly, which causes a whole chain-link type of reaction everywhere else in the body. An example of this which happens to be incredibly common in women is something like adrenal dysfunction--when the adrenal glands are overwhelmed by any number of factors, ongoing, uncurtailed stress being a common one. When those glands are pressed to react to an incredible amount of stress, it's almost as if our bodies create a "fight or flight" reaction to a situation which doesn't warrant that kind of reaction. If this happens often enough, our adrenal glands simply become overworked and cannot respond, or, alternately, overrespond when receptors for the hormones produced simply stop responding. What happens in that case is that the adrenals have to create even more hormone to effect the kind of reaction the body needs--and right there the imbalance begins...as the increase in those hormones will create a reactionary production or lack of production in other glands in the body...including the pituitary, the thyroid, the pancreas and even the ovaries. Eventually the organs in the body will begin to show the effects of the continued imbalances and glandular dysfunction...this is when the chronic diseases such as diabetes and heart disease can become full blown. Hormonal imbalances can also happen when hormones are introduced into the body for any reason--use of corticosteroids for asthma treatment, for example; hormone replacement therapies or ongoing hormone use--such as the birth control pill; use of steroids for body-building, even the use of melatonin for the treatment of insomnia or jet lag.

What you want to do naturally is restore optimum hormonal balance not by adding or subtracting hormones, but by supporting the body using proper treatment that allows all glands and organs to function properly. The balance will restore itself when the glands function properly; and they will function properly when the body is healthy again.

Nutrition can play a big role by making certain all the absolutely necessary fats and proteins required by the body to maintain this kind of abalance is available int he body, but other natural treatment options are also very effective. You need to find one that makes it easy for you to comply with what is required to restore your health.

Eralc Alegna, I don't mind if you ask my medical background. I'm a homeopathic doctor with a private practice in which I treat people of all ages (and animals too) using classical homeopathic medicine and holistic nutrition. The vast majority of the patients in my practice are women and children; I treat mainly chronic diseases (I like to teach my patients how to treat the acute diseases they may run into) and all of my patients save for maybe 2 of them came to me after every other kind of treatment has failed. I've been in private practice for 6 years.
neverending
chachaheels: I became a vegetarian 2 wks ago because I thought that might help also.Should I add seafood to my diet? and are estroil vaginal suppositories safe to use and buy off the internet?
i_hate_sports
Piano Girl: I feel disgusting and depressed about it too. You aren't alone. And it sucks because I don't want to talk about it to my friends because I feel like they will think I am gross. I talk about it to my coworker, boss/BIL , sister and mom. They don't get it and I feel like they think its weird that I have this problem.

I finished the Cleocin today. No horrible discharge all day. Yippee. I am really hoping this might be it for me. I am not going back on BC. I really feel like after reading everything on this board its about estrogen for me. I am going to let my body do its thing and not mess with my hormones any more.

I am so glad I found you guys. I have learned so much from this board in just the past week.
chachaheels
Neverending, if you became a vegetarian just recently, do a LOT of research and find out what you need to do to maintain your health. I personally think that's easy to do if you add milk foods and egg foods to your diet; as soy is just so bad for you unless you only eat fermented organic soy, (which leaves you with Tofu and not much more). If you're not well-versed on how to get the nutrients you have to have, you'll ending up creating deficiencies in your body--which only leads to problems you don't want, beginning with weight gain. If you're craving sea foods, add them to your diet. If you're trying to go vegetarian and you find yourself craving meat, by all means, pay attention to those cravings. People make a real mistake when they think cravings are just poor will power: our bodies are actually telling us something important through "cravings". I've yet to hear of one which wasn't created by physiological need.

As for buying any drug off the internet, my advice on that is DON'T. Ever. Especially not hormone drugs. If you really want to use HRT of any kind, find out as much as possible, make sure you know all the side effects (cancer is one), and be under a very well informed, top-skilled endocrinologist's ongoing care before you decide to do this.

I don't know what it is that makes people think they can self-treat with any drug, pharmaceutical or "natural". These are really powerful substances. Drug substances cannot heal anything unless they also have the power to seriously harm--keep that in mind! All doctors are warned never to self-treat because of the lack of objectivity this causes. There is absolutely no way for you to fully understand what needs to be addressed and what a drug is doing to your body without that objectivity. Oh, I know I'm going to hear a bunch of "how do you know? I treated myself and I was successful at it!!" But that just makes what I'm saying more obviously true.
sassy
While I agree with chachaheels about doing a lot of research before becoming vegetarian, I disagree strongly about craving meat. I have been vegetarian for 7 years and I occasionally still smell meat and think, "that smells good." When you give something up, of course you will occasionally miss it. I would NEVER touch the stuff again, however...anyone who thinks meat is healthier than a vegetarian diet needs to take a look at what goes into the "production" of meat at factory farms. And yes, I'm sure that there are some animals that are treated well before slaughter but the majority of meat is horrible for you due to anti-biotics fed to the animals, which by the way causes humans to be less reactive to anti-biotics in medicine. I don't think there is a connection to BV and vegetarianism...I've never noticed a difference in my symptoms due to the food I eat.

And cravings are just cravings. I crave junk food sometimes but it doesn't mean it's good for my body.
chachaheels
Oh, I agree that meat is badly raised. However, there is another political issue that falls in with the eating of meat, and of our access to good food which does not contain additives and practices which make huge corporations wealthy while we suffer healthwise. If you're a vegetarian because most meat is horrific as a result of livestock rearing practices, chemicals, drugs, hormones,and poisons used in their production, then your complaint is with the way things are done in agribusiness, not with the food itself.

There are millions of small scale, organic, free range farmers who are trying their damnedest to restore our access to the foods we need, raised without all the crap agribusinesses and huge conglomerates like monsanto, ADM, and cargill are allowed to do to our food. We would all be a lot better off--healthwise, politically, and socially if we supported these local food producers and stopped buying so much of the mass produced and mass marketed stuff that is forced on us. And don't stop at meat, milk, and eggs: strongly think about supporting organic farmers who grow vegetable crops as well. If you can't find organic farmers locally (many can't afford to "pay" for the certification papers, but they follow the rules anyway) you should still try and support local producers as much as possible. If you know who's grown your food, and how they've done it, you have a great deal more control over what goes into your food and what stays out of it than you would if you went to the grocery store and paid a ton of money for produce that's GMO, gassed or irradiated, chemically treated with stuff you can't wash off ever, and then delivered to your mass marketing grocer from thousands of miles away.

Vegetarianism should never be about "cutting foods out" of the diet: it really ought to be about adding a large variety of vegetable foods TO the diet. And yes, you must supplement--B vitamins, saturated fats (the best one is cocoanut oil, it's the only source that comes close to what you need to get from animal fats) and finding suitable, safe versions of the high quality, high quantity vitamin A and D that only comes from animal organ meats. You will not be able to actually utilize the nutrients without the saturated fats to enable these chemical reactions to take place, so you must make arrangements to supplement well--and you need to do some indepth research to find out what those nutrients are.

I was a vegetarian for 13 years and couldn't figure out why I was eating "healthy", yet getting sicker, and heavier, all the time. I never craved meat foods, but I always missed seafoods. All I had to do to stop a lot of the damage I was doing was eat one or two meals featuring fish a week--and supplement with cod liver oil, but I had no idea at the time.

If you have any kind of craving, there is a bona fide physiological need for it, even if it is junk food you crave (don't think for a minute that people don't need the highly refined sugars--possibly not for the best reasons, but reasons none the less. If you doubt this in any way, keep in mind that plain white sugar was used as a medicinal drug for hundreds of years before we started abusing it liberally--it has very specific physiological effects on the body which can help or hinder). You might not be able to get what you need in the very best form, but rest assured, you need that substance.
Eralc Alegna
QUOTE(chachaheels @ Oct 31 2006, 06:43 AM) *

I don't know what it is that makes people think they can self-treat with any drug, pharmaceutical or "natural".

I think I can speak for everyone in this instance by saying, "BECAUSE WE'RE DESPERATE!" when nothing else has worked, doctors quit trying and caring and keep jamming the same counter productive crap down our throats, any alternate approach seems appealing. and it's not easy to find a naturopath or herbalist in your backyard, or one you can afford.
on that note, I'm in the US. Midwest to be more specific. Is there an organization or website i can go to you know of to find a naturopath in my area?

And out of curiosity, anyone come across a study of women on the pill or hormonal BC and rates of BV before and after? or women who take BC vs. women who don't and the rates of infection? If not someone should...
pianogirl
QUOTE(sassy @ Oct 31 2006, 07:15 AM) *

While I agree with chachaheels about doing a lot of research before becoming vegetarian, I disagree strongly about craving meat. I have been vegetarian for 7 years and I occasionally still smell meat and think, "that smells good." When you give something up, of course you will occasionally miss it. I would NEVER touch the stuff again, however...anyone who thinks meat is healthier than a vegetarian diet needs to take a look at what goes into the "production" of meat at factory farms. And yes, I'm sure that there are some animals that are treated well before slaughter but the majority of meat is horrible for you due to anti-biotics fed to the animals, which by the way causes humans to be less reactive to anti-biotics in medicine. I don't think there is a connection to BV and vegetarianism...I've never noticed a difference in my symptoms due to the food I eat.

And cravings are just cravings. I crave junk food sometimes but it doesn't mean it's good for my body.


Hi Sassy,

I am with you on this one. I have been a vegetarian for 13 years and have no desire whatsoever to consume meat. I strongly disagree to vegetarianism and bv being linked, my diet is not the issue as I eat very healthy I believe the BC pills threw me off balance. I will never integrate meat into my diet, a few years back my mother cooked pasta and I ate it thinking it was plain marinara sauce needless to say I started throwing up and she couldnt understand why until she read the label and the sauce contained meat sources. I will never forget that I think eating meat or integrating meat would do more damage than good for those who have been vegetarians for a long amount of time. Also what about my coworkers whom are Hindus and believe the Cow is sacred. They dont eat meat and never have nor will as it is against their beliefs I am sure that some women (hindus etc) get bv and meat is not incorporated into their diet to heal their disease.


Thanks,

PG


QUOTE(Eralc Alegna @ Oct 31 2006, 09:57 AM) *

I think I can speak for everyone in this instance by saying, "BECAUSE WE'RE DESPERATE!" when nothing else has worked, doctors quit trying and caring and keep jamming the same counter productive crap down our throats, any alternate approach seems appealing. and it's not easy to find a naturopath or herbalist in your backyard, or one you can afford.
on that note, I'm in the US. Midwest to be more specific. Is there an organization or website i can go to you know of to find a naturopath in my area?

And out of curiosity, anyone come across a study of women on the pill or hormonal BC and rates of BV before and after? or women who take BC vs. women who don't and the rates of infection? If not someone should...



Hi I haave read that BC pills makes you more suceptable to infections because it alters your hormones. However I read so many things that I cant remember where I read that from. I agree we are all desperate and frustrated, the doctors have given up and some don't even listen. When I told my doctor when this problem started happening, I was on Seasonale and was experiencing alot of breakthrough bleeding she said "Oh when you stop taking the birth control your body goes back to normal." She basically dismissed whatever I had to say, they mostly do. I found a holistic doctor whom I spoke with and she said BC pills alters hormones and thats maybe my issue. She did say it is also diet but my diet has been the same for many years. Also she said it could be stress so there are many factors becuase I guess it would be fair to say that we are all different. She did say much of time the cause of this is hormones so we will see what is my case. In any event I will let you girls know in about two weeks as I will meet her in two weeks (that was her only appt. available).

Thanks
chachaheels
Well, I used to think it was hard to find alternative medical practitioners, but we are out there and there are many schools in North America which offer the comprehensive courses needed to become well trained. It's just like any other medicine: if your doctor is not taking your seriously, or doesn't seem to be knowledgeable about treatments that are out there--YOU have to go out and find another doctor. If you find conventional medicine doesn't work, then really you must take responsibility for your health and learn about alternatives. Then you have to seek out someone who can work with you--and that will take just as much effort as it would to work with a conventional MD. Being desperate is just one more reason to be careful about treatments out there and how to use them properly. Why put your health in jeopardy any further if you say you're trying to improve it?

Here's a site with listings of homeopathic doctors in North America--find your state and see who's doing what; also click on the link which tells you what the accreditations behind peoples' names mean. This is NASH's site--it lists classical homeopaths.
www.homeopathy-cures.com

To find a naturopath in your area, I googled "regulatory bodies naturopathic medicine in the us" and selected a link to Wikipedia's page on naturopathy. Under a subheading on that page reading "Regulation in North America, there are a series of links for each state and province where naturopaths practice. Click on one of those links, contact the body in your area, and then call each individual practitioner and shop around. Ask about what to expect in treatment, in the first consult, what the rates are, what each practitioner's specialty treatment method is, etc. etc. Try to get a feel for these people as docs before you commit to a first consultation; if you find someone who works well with you and is open to you (and you'll know in that first conversation) consider working with that person.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Nat...n_North_America

For what it's worth, wikipedia's basic information on alternative medicine is very poor, or at least, sorely lacking--so ask these referral organizations to recommend some educational materials to you if you want to know more about the kind of medicine this is.

In any case, self-treating is just a bad idea. Avoid it whenever possible, and seriously learn to question anyone who tells you to take natural or other kinds of drugs to treat chronic disease on your own. They do not have your best interests at heart.

As for the whole veggie issue--I never said eating meat will cure your BV. I did say, however, that nutritional treatment options do, in fact, exist, for the treatment and cure of BV; and that vegetarianism should be well-researched before it is undertaken.

It's absolutely true that if you don't eat the right fats in your diet, you WILL alter your hormone balance (hormones are basically fats and protein, after all--so if you don't have the right fats and amino acids going in, you'll hardly have what you need to make and balance them healthily). Most of the fats necessary happen to be saturated animal fats, and many of the vital amino acids you need can only be found in animal proteins: however, I DID also mention that you can use a vegetable fat that comes close (there is only one, after all, which can almost mimick animal fats) and supplement like crazy if you want to be vegetarian and successfully treat BV with nutrition.

One last thing: The Indian women you mention, as an example, have plenty of access to, and use a great deal of tropical fats (coconuts, palm oils, etc) and they eat milk products like butter and cheese and lacto-fermented food--which contains so many of the enzymes and saturated fats needed for nutrient absorption. The vegetarianism practiced there is quite different from what people eat here, where people erroneously cut these foods out of the diet because they've been misinformed about the body's biological need for fats.

I also said vegetarianism is not for everyone. Some people will be great if they educate themselves thoroughly and follow a diet plan without meat foods. Some people will not be, no matter what kind of supplementation procedure they follow. That said, a vegetarian diet doesn't necessarily mean a healthier diet. You can have an extremely healthy omnivorous diet as well, and you can have an amazingly effective curative omnivorous diet too. It all depends on the individual and on the diet's quality. It's just not that cut and dry to declare vegetarian healthier than ominivorous.
autumnbreeze
Hello Ladies,

Just wanted to give an update. My symptoms have improved tremendously. The discharge is very light (I no longer have to wear a pantiliner overnight) and the smell has dropped from a solid 8 to about a 3. I can't tell you how excited I am!! You have to understand that until a few weeks ago, I thought I would have to walk around smelling like sardines for the rest of my life. Currently, I am only taking probiotics once a day. I will probably do a montly hydrogen peroxide douche for maintenance. It's too soon to claim victory over BV but atleast I see that it can be controlled.

Also, for those of you here in the Atlanta area..I was browsing over the weekend and came across some info on a doctor who specializes in Holistic Gynecology. He is a doctor of osteopathy certified in gynecology and holistic medicine. His name is Richard J. Clofine, D.O. The center is called Integrated Medical Center 770-390-0012.


Eralc Alegna: I agree with you..we are desparate. Most of us have been dealing with this for years and the doctors just keep writing scripts for antibiotics. If they aren't getting any money or kickbacks, they are NOT going to refer you to holistic practitioners or suggest you seek alternative medicines. Hell, I just recently learned (on my own) about probiotics and the purpose they serve! My docs had been giving me antibiotics but never once suggested probiotics to keep the subsequent yeast infections away. Overall I think we have to be careful, educate ourselves, and not be afraid to "think outside the box" because no one is going to take your health as serious as you.
neverending
autumnbreeze:I'm only 2 hours away from Atlanta,Ga. I will give him a try because I don't want to have to use birth control. I'm married and I am ready for children!

Ladies:Doctor called and told me he was not going to give me the estrogen treatment.I asked why and he said I am too young to be having problems like this.You know what? I completely give up on doctors PERIOD! I don't think they want us to get rid of this problem because they profit off of it.So, with that being said; I ordered some estroil vaginal suppositories (the plant form) and I am going to give it a try.Wish me luck!

Estriol Helps Maintain Healthy Vaginal Tissue

Vaginal dryness and atrophy, urinary frequency, and repeat urinary tract infections are problems that many women experience during perimenopause, menopause, and other periods of estrogen decline. These symptoms occur because falling estrogen levels can lead to thinning of the vaginal and urethral tissue.

Estriol has a very robust local effect on the many estrogen receptors in these tissues and can be useful in reducing vaginal dryness and thickening skin and mucosa in a matter of a few days or weeks. Studies show estriol also lowers vaginal pH, promoting a healthy environment for the growth of protective flora, which may then help prevent urinary tract infections. Most often, a small amount of estriol in an individually compounded cream or suppository is prescribed for use two or three times a week.

autumnbreeze
neverending: Good luck with the Estriol. I am also done with the hormonal birth control. Although I was not taking it when BV first appeared, I still think it can do more harm than good and make you more prone to having "female" problems. And notice how the doctors love to push whatever the "new" product is. That's how I ended up on Yasmin! My doctor gave me enough samples for six months. After the samples were gone, I stopped, and never got the prescription filled. My first experience with BC was the Depo Provera shot. I was eighteen and I gained about 35 lbs from that sh&%# in three months time. That should've been my cue to leave all of it alone.

Making Progress
I have found a few things that I want to share with everyone here. I am pretty sure it will help some. I have had this problem for about 3 years and I'm 37.

The first thing you've got to realize is that if you have been diagnosed with BV with no yeast, you should not think of this as a yeast infection. You might even think of this as the opposite of a yeast infection. Candida is not a healthy yeast, but all of our bodies have some yeast. Some yeast is healthy. Your vagina needs to have a healthy balance of acidophilus (bacteria) and yeast (not Candida). (Forgive me health professional if I over simplify.)

So your problem is not about consuming yeast - in-fact have a couple slices of whole wheat bread a day. Some other foods that can help are wine and vinegar, BUT DON'T PUT THEM DIRECTLY IN YOUR VAGINA!!! You'll kill off all the good and bad in there and you'll have a bigger problem.

Don't eat yogurt, or sour cream and don't take acidophilus. You already have enough good bacteria, that is the problem.

Take folic acid. I take twice the recommended daily allowance. The body doesn't store it, but apparently you can overdo it so don't take more than that.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.